Lamps - 8w Led vs 60w Incandescent
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- čas přidán 17. 10. 2015
- An 8w filament style LED lamp is compared to an older 60W tungsten filament lamp.
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A friend of mine owns a pub nearby and we converted the inside portion of her establishment from incandescent to dimmable LED. Two have given slight trouble but in general we found the light output to be identical colour wise but greater in terms of intensity. Also managed to knock the demand down from roughly 1700W down to about 250W at full intensity, saving on energy not only for lighting but cooling load in the summer months.... Amazing LED technology out now...
At last a video with a proper side by side comparison!
least
Great video John, thanks for posting it. I'll definitely be giving those LED filament bulbs a go.
Great video as always, John
Very nice, didn't even know these were possible. Going to go out now and see if I can get these at my local lighting store.
These ones with the false filaments are good for most uses since they also shine light towards the holder, down in a chandelier type fixture. The outer shell seems to be slightly bigger than normal, and I couldn't fit it into a small decorative lamp.
Great video thank you. Exactly what I was looking for.
Hi, I'm a big fan of this format. I have had several in use daily for several months now and all good. Another advantage of course is the envelope temperature, it's only warm to the touch. Thanks for the video.
This is a significant positive side effect. It allows all sorts of smaller luminaries to be designed as they can often work even with no air flow for the small wattage options while providing the light of a much larger fitting.
These LED filament lamps give good efficiency of around 100 lumens/watt, and it's good to see the outputs coming up to the 60w equivalent level. The price still needs to come down a bit though.
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Hgjhejus
Hello 2022: Ikea Filament Solhetta E27 470 lm, 160 (!) Lumen per Watt (!)
High 90 CRI color quality.. 4,50 Euro
I really like the look of those filament LED lamps although I think I'd only use them if I was going for the 'retro' look.
These led filaments have a bright future. But people really need to buy them from respected companies such as Osram, Philips or Sylvania. These companies develop, produce and test their lights.
The cheap versions are no good whatsoever and have all kind of problems such as flickr, heat lifespan and CRI index problems.
I think these LED filaments were invented by a Chinese company and they even patented them. The big brands are a little behind the times these days
brian i bought over 20 morrison branded LED's and all have been 100% perfect, dont buy overpriced brands, i wouldnt pay more than £4 a bulb
girlsdrinkfeck Buy Chinese shit. For example a bulb rated at 12W (100W standard bulb) is 4.5W. Good luck ;)
no mention on the box of expected lifetime? seems to be a purposeful ommision. i like the look, looks very much like an early edison bulb, they had a much more visible filament
This looks like the same style filaments that those reproduction vintage LED Edison style light bulbs have.
I love this Incandescent-like LED, it's energy saving.
A very interesting test. Thank you, John. Nevertheless, I question your test relative to brightness. I feel that the two lamps (60 W tungsten and 8 W LED), when lit up, saturate the eye, and brightness comparison is somewhat subjective. It would make sense to use a cheap lux meter and measure the brightness of each lamp say at a 1 meter distance from the bulb. You would then get an objective estimate. You could then say for sure that the 8 W LED light output is exactly similar to that of the 60 W tungsten. Or that it is 20 % brighter, or that the 60 W is 15 % brighter than the LED...
Yes that would be nice. However if he were to connect 7 of the LED bulbs at once and compare them with just one filament bulb would that make you feel better when the power consumed was the same and the light possibly 7 times more?
John, I know that certain "normal" incan' light bulbs sometimes state a best "burn postion" I guess due to the amount of heat they give out and the filiments sagging and reducing the lifespan of the bulb. So I guess these bulbs don't need that information as they are "solid" filiments is this right?
The best thing is that it replaces thungsten which is a very rare and valuable metal which is very important in camera flashes.
Most camera flashes are LED units these days to save space in your phone. If you are thinking of the Xenon strobe tubes then yes the electrodes may have tungsten. However industrial tungsten carbide cutting tools may be a much larger consumer of tungsten than filament bulbs. If you are thinking of single use flash bulb that is odd as they are no longer in use and they used magnesium or antimony wire/ribbon.
Also I've never seen a clear one, I thought they were bulb type or SMD LEDs
I ended up buying wifi led lights instead as they were the same price! I can now control colour and brightness from a remote and my phone... They're great! Videos of these are on my channel ☺️
Bought a whole bunch of those LED Filament bulbs, in various wattages, from eBay. Being in the States, I got some rated to run on anything from 80-265V.
I wouldn't recommend them as they would be half a bright when running on 120V. These have no transformers to speak of.
+Thanh Tran Not necessarily. Depends entirely on the driver used.
That's true. Maybe it has some fancy IC that doesn't even require a transformer. Mind doing a tear down on your lamp? =D
+Thanh Tran brightness will be same, but circuit efficiency will vary.
iceberg789 then efficiency will be terrible on the top end. I doubt they'll do this option. Most likely it will be a MOSFET pass-through circuit which adapts to the input voltage.
Very impressive. I've always found LED lamps to give out a rather ugly colour, even the warm white ones. As such we still have many high wattage incandescents in the house, but maybe this will change that!
Sir old filament incandescent bulbs proudue heat and use for heat purposes can we use led filament bulbs for heat purposes in birds cages or not
+ John Ward
What do these lamps use for smoothing / DC supply ?-- can you measure the modulation or catch it by waving fingers quickly in the light? -- Wider research shows how 100hz modulating light is bad, causes headache/migrane risk in significant portion of people, worse in others. Notice how good LED drivers use constant current and decent high frequency flourescent ballasts similarly, don't have this problem. ..
same thoughs as mine...
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@@elvinhaak The non-dimmable filament LED ones often use a simple capacitive dropper circuit which can be actually completely flicker free IF there is a smoothing capacitor. This is actually even better than high frequency because there is no modulation at all - it's a constant stream of light. However especially the filament lamps with E14 bases (where there is not much space) sometimes do not have a smoothing capacitor and therefore flicker horribly at 100 Hz.
Don't even get me started on dimmable ones. Let's just say it is best to avoid them.
Someone asked about flicker, but I wouldn't expect a non-dimmable LED to flicker at all. My question would be about EM interference, e.g. have you tried using an FM radio next to this thing? Electrical filtering IMHO separates the good LED bulbs from the cheap crap which uses inferior designs of switched mode power supplies. I don't see space in that bulb for large filtering caps.
MrSwanky - non-dimmable lamps have the MOST chance of flicker, as many of them don't even use a proper driver. The solution to flicker is to have large electrolytic capacitors on the output to smooth the ripple on the DC supply for the chips. However the capacitors will die of overheating so as the lamps age the flicker gets worse. As for power supplies, most non-dimming lamps use a capacitive dropper (horrid) or a 6-pin IC as a buck regulator circuit. The don't usually use switchmode drivers in integrated designs as they are too expensive
Hmmm, interesting. Now it's obvious that, after turning them off, you didn't make an instant grab for the 60w one as you would have melted your hand onto it, but.....
What about the other one?
Does it warm up at all, and if so, by how much? The reason why I ask this, is because of those electronics in them.
If these were connected into a pendant and got hot, what's the chances of the chips packing up or becoming unsoldered by [any of] the heat in there?
Thanx for showing,
-BoomBoxDeluxe.
_20th October 2015, 22.53_
+BoomBoxDeluxe It gets warm, but can still be held even when on, certainly nowhere near what could be described as hot.
Recently replaced the lifting in my living room and kitchen with LEDs. The technology has come a long way in the last few years. How do you find that lamp for flicker? It doesn't show on camera but I have had some lamps that aren't filtered particularly well and they show the 50Hz (or 100Hz) flicker that I find annoying. The lamps I bought recently from Tesco and B&Q don't flicker at all but the ones in my cooker hood that I got on eBay are terrible and I have removed them. (Normal eBay rubbish!)
+RedDragonUKTech No visible flicker at all.
It depends on the chips inside. If you have no component inside then its only really on for a fraction of the time so you'll see a flicker. These ones are on most of the time hence minimal if any flicker.
+RedDragonUKTech I have many different brands of LED bulbs. I recently replaced all the bulbs in my 'home studio' for Philips LEDs thinking they'd be the best and guess which bulbs are the only ones to flicker on camera? Yes, that's right, the bloomin' expensive Philips bulbs!
Gadget Addict most bulbs will flicker a bit on camera to be honest.
Thanh Tran I'm not sure if I can agree... I've only done limited testing with my Canon HF G30 and iPhone 6 but across 5 different brands of LED bulbs, none of them had flicker. Then when pointed at my new Philips LED bulbs, they show a flicker on the canon and a rolling pattern on the iphone6. I even spoke to Philips about it and they sent me a PDF explaining why the issue exists with their bulbs. I'm planning to shoot a video about it soon. Pretty disappointed cos they weren't cheap and I bought a lot of them.
Slightly OT, but having grown up with bayonet fitting, the first time I saw screw type bulbs I thought wow these are much better, who needs bayonet type? I had used them in recessed light fittings then.
When it came to changing the blown bulbs I realised why bayonet is superior. The screw types get stuck. To the point that sometimes the glass rips from the metal body when taking them out. A bigger nightmare when removing them from recessed fittings.
Then the tab that makes connection to the end of the bulb on a screw type never comes back to it's original position causing the replacement bulb to either make no connection or a very tenuous one. The latter resulting in flickering and a quickly blown bulb. Maybe on more expensive screw fittings they employ an actual spring but I've yet to see one.
Even the screw body can make a very weak connection. If it is tightened all the way to the shoulder and there is not enough metal contact there, you could also have weak contact on the thread itself.
+V T Yeah that can be a problem if you over tighten the bulb or it was a cheap bulb, but another advantage to edison bulbs is the guaranteed polarity. Neutral is always on the outer foil, which makes for a safer bulb now in the LED age, when polarity matters a lot.
+Richard Smith Yea safer as long as the house wiring is correct or it could be live.
Mentorcase That's a different matter. Nothing can fix wiring problems like that. Also, most LED lights wouldn't even work in an edison socket with reverse polarity. It's common for LED lightbulbs to have exposed heatsinks, and having those guaranteed tied to neutral by only the use of a single diode simplifies the electronics and does not require polarity correction, which can randomly leave exposed metal live otherwise in poorly designed bulbs.
It encourages a safer way to design the bulb, and since it is also cheaper, it will more likely be done.
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V T မမအမအမအ
Would have thought you'd measure the power consumption and power factor of both to be sure.
+Thanh Tran
I can't vouch for this one, but I bought one of these kind recently and measured it's consumption. The watt meter showed 9 watts for the first 10 seconds or so, then it hovered between 8-9 and finally settled on 8 watts within a minute, so the actual consumption is probably between 8 - 8.5 watts.
That's because the chips are getting pretty hot and is simply settling down to a lower forward voltage...
price & seller ?
If the metal of tungsten bulbs is recycled they aren't that much of a waste and when you consider that they also heat your house as efficiently as a heater they don't really waste electric in the winter because you have to heat your house less... So in winter they aren't a waste and in my opinion they are better at combating Seasonal Affective Disorder.
Varry interesting 🤔
Those are 0.8W chips, thus ~ 7W consumption total, maybe even less.
+Dalsir Driver circuit isn't 100% efficient though.
dalsir but everything has a resistance from the terminal to the LED
2 of my 5 LED filament lamps (6 W and 8 W) lasted about 3-4 months. One started flickering and the other one just died. But those were from China (Ebay)..
heat is the killer, the fitting is critical for LED's, some of those designed for incandescent a will trap too much heat, also the design of some bulbs means overheating (then failure) is inevitable.
+Johniakson How were they mounted? Right side up or up side down?
Blaine Bugaski One was "hanging", so up side down. The other one was in a table lamp, so mostly up side down, or slightly sideways..
I was just wondering. Sideways shouldn't matter, but upside down, any heat generated from the light will definitely be coming up into the electronics.
I believe most CFLs recommend not mounting them upside down. In fact there is a CZcams video somewhere that shows the electronics showing signs of heat damage, discoloration, etc. from being mounted upside down.
Throw LEDs away, Tugnston filaments causes 10 times less polution than making LEDs, in the Fall, Winter use Tungsten, beside the light, it warms up the house.
@@Callllum A strange comment to a rational suggestion, you could inprove your credibility if you engaged in a more mature manner in conversations. In many areas at high latitudes darkness correlates reasonably well with cold temperatures. If you are using electric heating or something more expensive then using your illumination to supply heat is a perfectly sound idea for indoor use. Especially if the lights are already paid for and in place. In these instances replacing a working light is the height of waste and consumerism unless you have done some very careful calculations on life cycle energy costs. If however you are using heat pumps, with possible ground heat storage, then electric filaments are no longer an efficient heating solution but the heat is still not wasted, just not provided at best efficiency.
In summer these side benefits are not there if you are having to use energy to remove the heat of the incandescent luminaries. Replacing lights that are used for long periods in summer with LED systems as they fail would make sense.
If however you are using your own solar, wind, micro hydro or other electrical energy to power your house then the electricity may have no incremental cost and the manufacturing cost and cash value of replacing a luminary may be the more wasteful environmental act and the environmental cost of a LED light may even be higher than a simple glass and metal filament bulb if you do not count the energy saving.
I'm very impressed by the performance of the new lamp, but that's a hideous lamp fitting !
+yangtse55 It was taken out of a flat that was being refurbished.
like very much a big improvement on halogen .at least the do look better .
incandescent in winter (indoors), and LED in other weather (indoors).
Good to see the wattage equivalent is actually accurate. It sounds like you're mumbling sometimes though, which makes it hard to follow sometimes.
CFLs were just all horrible, in my experience. One of them even had the power supply blow out the bottom.
+Noah Keck Have seen that happen a few times, also had one which brand new out of the box billowed acrid smoke out of the base minutes after it was switched on.
+John Ward Gotta love your random Made in China generic crap, no?
Not to offend the Chinese, some great products come out of China, but some are just horrid.
+Noah Keck I've also had a CFL buzz then burn its way through the lower plastic sheath. Looked like a capacitor gave up on life and electric started to arc straight across its joints. I think it was a marked Tesco bulb, too. Could have been caused by a 'dirty' ring in the 1910 built house I was in.
+Phillip Parr sounds about right, the cap would have vented
Whilst doing my usual rounds replacing modern light fittings, often after a very short period of time, I wonder whether the supposed energy saving is reflected in the environmental costs of making lights that last such short periods. In the days of the incandescent bulb, changing one was a rare occurence at relatively low cost. All the new lights are very expensive and last no time at all. Manufacturers data stating things like 10000 hours are rubbish, they always burn long before that, even before they've been installed for that time, let alone working. I have to change some lights here at least once a month, something I rarely did when the old incandescents were used. We have one bulb, turned on and off at least a dozen times a day that has been in place since before my sons 8th birthday when a balloon hit it and left a bright blue ring on the side. My son is now 32 and the light still burns away merrily. Thats at least 24 years: new lights seldom last 24 weeks.
They might use less electricity in use but the constant replacements must use a great deal more than is saved.
This seems to be overlooked by all commentators.
How can incandescent light change be infrequent when they last about 1000 hours.
That light of yours, could it be a 240V bulb used at 110V?
+Adt Net , it's "planned obsolescence"; manufacturer for incandescent lightbulb formed a cartel to standardize lightbulb of low life expectancy. Competing design with longer lifetime became extinct. The oldest working , world-record-setting incandescent is called 'Centennial Light', which is over 108 years old.
+Derek Gray I suspect you may be getting less then 240 volts coming into your house. It's surprising how long filament bulbs last if you drop the voltage by even 5%. All of a sudden your bulb is dissipating something of the order of 10% less power.
As for the poor life of your modern units....errr. Dunno... The only major appliances that i am aware of that get pissed off about low incoming voltage are fridges and freezers. They don't like it up 'em.
I should say say that not all high power LEDs are equal. Some are OK and some are useless. There are some very poor individual chips- and complete assemblies- coming into the country from 'you know where'
most retailers will replace a dud LED bulb hassle free ,morrisons does ,i bought over 20 LED morrison branded bulbs and all work fine now for over 3 years and they state if any break over 3 years itll be replaced hassle free as they swend them back to the manu
BigClive posted something interesting the other day - which might be relevant.
Almost all these lights use a capacitive dropper to feed into the regulator (or the bridge) and whilst these are relatively high impedence at 50Hz, they pass higher frequency line hash and arcing noise virtually unmolested - which ends up killing the Leds (and can blow the dropper fusible resistor)
You might want to test the cleanliness of your power feed and/or the start of your switches (He found that arcing in the switch was what did the damage to his ones)
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If anyone needs the specs found them on here www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/LTFGL8BCCL.html
£13.95 on Amazon uk, but they do look nice!
3€ at the local hardware here in sweden. I think you can get them for like 1€ online.
Around £7 on ebay uk now, but I got one for £5 a few months ago!
incandescent light bulbs will always be better
John, thanks for the posting. One interminable questions, I always find myself asking is that as soon as something is buried full of semiconductors;
is the longevity of the product. I've come across 40/60w bulbs that have and are still operational after 20 years service.
I really doubt this would be the case for these. Any comments welcome.
Energy and lifetime mean nothing if you don't tell us how much it cost!
filament GLS bulbsl cost around £7
Totally dismisses the importance of colour rendering (CRI). The human eye can very easily tell the difference between 80 and 99(incandescent CRI). Not coming in defence of incandescent per se but at the job of lighting an environment they are superior. Naturally their superiority isn’t needed everywhere, for example hall ways living rooms etc. But some places where users may wish to bring the colour of an environment to life they are without doubt superior. Although arguably because of their greater efficiency halogen is the “best” light bulb.
To have the best and most pleasant light, you have to put in more watts - there's no way around it. More natural full-spectrum light is not possible without a certain amount of heat. What I would do in terms of life span of halogen or incandescent bulbs is to buy them in oversized versions (e.g. for industrial applications) and then run them on lower power. That way they should last much, much longer.
This video is 7 years old.. But you are right.. Good news: Almost all Ikea LED bulbs are now 90 CRI..
Its not a lamp it's a bulb!
Dimmability was once one of the biggest drawbacks of switching to an LED lamp. but this lamp is dimable, great, there base have E27,B22,E26,e14,etc!
wow! bye-bye compact fluorescents!
bye-bye durable
John, LEDS have been out for decades, can you tell us why LED bulbs are taking over now and even after those disgusting energy saving lamps which took ages to come on? Is it one of those things where they don't release the technology until it's their 'time' to make money
+ChompChompNomNom It's only fairly recently that LEDs have been bright enough and of the right colour to use for lighting applications. Although LEDs have been available since the 1960s, blue ones were first made in the 1990s, and even then were nowhere near bright enough to use for lighting applications.
Re the orIgIOnal energy-saving lamps - if you diusmantle one, apart from the tubes and wire connections you have a circular printed circuit containing at least one transformer , several resisrtors and chokes , and vareious other electronic components inc:electrolytic capacitors of a standard similar to many small radios. When you wonder how much energy and material is used compared to an incadescant lamp The energy saving seems questionable.
www.ledinside.com/press/2016/3/power_photon_deomonstrates_led_filament_tube_and_cooling_package. In the future, the omni-directional light bulb won’t include PLCC, EMC package or CSP, ELC non-package SMD LED. Of course, there is no MCPCB thermally conductive substrate, heat sink, lamp shade shell and etc. In the successful development of LED filament tube new light source, it towards C.F.L. energy-saving lamps’ divide the work production and sales mode which is the assembly plant procurement filament tube source, power driver module, and etc. production packaging. The brand passage will toward the vast world market for sale.After more than10 years of accumulated experience of numerous failures, R&D personnel of POWER PHOTON CO., LTD. finally can solve LED filament cooling problem! LED filament tube and cooling package. This patent technology has already applied for registration in many countries of the world. Hope to open a brand new light source solution for human light requirement.
www.ledinside.com.tw/qiye/20160310-32200.html
未來LED燈泡將不再有PLCC、EMC封裝或CSP、ELC無封裝貼片，當然也沒有MCPCB導熱基板、散熱片及燈罩外殼等，在LED燈絲毛管新光源的開發成功下，朝向C.F.L.節能燈泡的分工生產銷售模式，即組裝廠採購燈絲毛管光源、電源驅動模組等生產包裝，品牌通路面向世界寬廣的市場發售。
寶福通光能有限公司的研發人員，歷經10年來無數失敗的經驗累積，LED燈絲散熱終於得解! LED燈絲毛管、散熱封裝；此一專利技術已向世界多國申請注冊，願為人類照明需求開啟全新光源解決方案。
Incandescent is way better
can you speak with care in it
and your camera was clipped, clipped white is white no matter it is LED or it is incandescent, even clipped sunlight is white