When Commas Are Life and Death
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- čas přidán 17. 03. 2021
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Commas can be worth millions...and can be the difference between life and death.
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Sorry, occupational hazard: This is not legal advice, nor can I give you legal advice. I AM NOT YOUR LAWYER. Sorry! Everything here is for informational purposes only and not for the purpose of providing legal advice. You should contact your attorney to obtain advice with respect to any particular issue or problem. Nothing here should be construed to form an attorney-client relationship. Also, some of the links in this post may be affiliate links, meaning, at no cost to you, I will earn a small commission if you click through and make a purchase. But if you click, it really helps me make more of these videos! All non-licensed clips used for fair use commentary, criticism, and educational purposes. See Hosseinzadeh v. Klein, 276 F.Supp.3d 34 (S.D.N.Y. 2017); Equals Three, LLC v. Jukin Media, Inc., 139 F. Supp. 3d 1094 (C.D. Cal. 2015).
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🦅 Any crazy legal stories I should cover?
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Come for the legal analysis, stay for the hardcore, r-rated syntax.
The lady that tried to sneak onto 22 planes as a stowaway
Nice head
I ain't care
Oh! I know you haven't done any TV show reviews in a while, so I'm not sure if this will interest you, but you should do a review of a Steve Coogan film called Shepherds and Butchers. It's a really interesting film based on a case where a former Death Row warden is on trial for committing murder due to PTSD suffered from working on death row.
It's based on British/South African law, but it would be really cool to get a US perspective.
My favourite comma use quote is this: “My three favourite things are eating my family and not using commas.”
Same guy who said "Let's eat grandma!"
@@CaTastrophy427 or the dogs that eats everything loves children
_My favourite comma use quote is this: “My three favourite things are eating my family and not using commas.”_
That's funny. But to be picky, it would be better without the "three," since that gives it away, don't you think? :)
It would be better without the 'u,' too, but I'm an American, so what do _I_ know. Heh, heh. Seriously, I like that quote.
I presume you like this as an example of how to disambiguate sentences without use of commas. 'My favourite things are: eating my family and not using commas' is an example where commas are important. This sentence can have two meanings.
'My three favourite things are[:] eating my family and not using commas' can only have one sensical meaning. It must mean that the subject enjoys three separate things: eating, my family and not using commas.
If you are going to use cute trick sentences, remember to include the trick. :P
@@Bill_Garthright @George Laidlaw For one thing it works better as a humourous written gag if people get to the end of it and think the list is both odd and one item short, then have to re-read the sentence to figure it out. At the same time, whilst parsing it to get three items in the list, the reader actually learns about the importance and correct use of commas, as only correct comma usage will give a result that that both makes sense and has three items in it. So I think it kinda works better with the three in it. It's the sort of sentence that, if you put it on a tv presenter's, or newsreader's, autocue, they would trip up and read it wrongly the first time and then have to have that 'I'm sorry, I'll read that again' moment.
I love how the lower court was like "well obviously the legislature intended to screw over as many workers as possible"
Ahh, sounds about American.
Oh the American justice system.
@Coding Crusader no shit bro
@Coding Crusader When only business owners have the time, desire, and money to run for office, you get people who believe that its the money the business makes that is important. Not the money made and spent by the workers.
@@kookamunga4714 Then that should show you that if you are not a business owner you should become one. Actually, there are many who make enough money to run for political office who are workers at the higher level, but they don't because they can't afford the time off to run for office. A business owner has the freedom to make his own schedule and therefore not only has the money but the time to run. An employee wanting to run who is an executive of a business but not an owner will more than likely be told to make a choice before he has even run for the office. So it doesn't matter at what level you work at, if you work for another man then you are in fact enslaved to that man for your livelihood. Plain and simple!
In Russia, there's a whole cartoon about a boy who doesn't care about grammar or school in general until he gets into a magic world where he gotta help those he meets and himself by correctly resolving the tasks that are actually school exercices. After some time there, for whatever reason, he gets imprisoned, and he gotta himself decide his fate by placing a comma in a verdict which roughly translates as "Execute not pardon", and, as you understand, the placement of comma after the first or the second word is literally a question of life or death. The cartoon is really popular, and the phrase "Execute not pardon" is known by roughly all Russian people.
I can attest this is true
Yeah it's like "Execute do not, pardon" vs. "Execute, do not pardon"
Flows much more naturally in Russian
In Russia, you don't hang comma, comma hangs you.
What is the name of the cartoon? Sounds interesting
@@smpm0222 "В стране невыученных уроков", which is roughly translated as "in the land of unlearned lessons"
My favourite comma poem:
"Q: What is the difference between a cat and a comma?
A: A comma is a pause at the end of a clause, where a cat has claws at the end of its paws."
From an independent Irishman, Roger Casement is not forgotten.
What's the difference between a circus and a sorority?
A circus is a cunning array of stunts...
(oh wait, this isn't relevant)
@@TheOJDrinker I mentally finished this and almost burst out laughing.
@@TheOJDrinker finished it in my head and I’m wheezing
@@TheOJDrinker Can someone explain this to me? I can't really figure it out, heh.
@@talis2513 I'ma guess it's just swapping the C and St in cunning and stunts
“No, it’s like five Half as Interesting videos crammed into one.”
Two and a half times as interesting
This is what I came to the comments for.
But where are the brick jokes
An interesting is an interesting. You can't say it's only a half
@@bobstevenson3130 Interesting-ness must eventually be quantifiable because there exist degrees of interesting. Ex. Mildly, Somewhat, Quite, and Highly.
@@bobstevenson3130 If you are gonne be that pedantic, I'd like to note that there is no such thing as "an interesting", "interesting" is an adjective and can be combined with "half" used as an adverb without logical or grammatical contradictions. You can therefore very much say "half as interesting" which is a perfectly correct ellipsis.
Game designer here with a horrifying fact: there are a solid chunk of designers who just forego commas in design docs in a lot of places, and leads just go like “it’s fine it’s still understandable”
Hurts to no end
People who don't use commas are the *b a n e* of those of us with anxiety lol
As a matter of fact I find a lack of commas no matter what a cringey annoying practice
I find it clearer just to write code to make the English more clear. Even with an oxford comma, it is difficult to tell an exclusive or from an inclusive or, etc.
The "It's still understandable" mentality is exactly what leads to incoherent acronyms, a lack of necessary and often overlooked words, and many hours spent staring at a single sentence, trying to figure out what on Earth is being said.
For instance, how am I supposed to understand the following sentence?
"I am break a bed but can't back to my storage I know it's a short problem but in next has a big problem"
(I asked for a detailed description of a glitch found on one of my game servers)
"Why did you implement that feature when I told you not to?!"
"Your email said 'no don't stop'."
i've always loved the example my teacher used for the importance of proper grammar.... "Let's eat, kids!" vs. "Let's eat kids!" The difference between a nice family evening and mass murder and cannibalism is a comma.
I love a nice family evening with mass murder, but cannibalism is just wrong.
Since it’s your _birthday,_ Billy, I made your favourite! *r o a s t e d f l e s h*
@@christopherhuang9501 beat me to it, but do you mean "...family evening, and...", or "...and mass murder, and...", or, perhaps, you ought to have used the plural of "difference". ;-)
Off subject slightly, but you reminded me that a teacher once told me, "Have is a bad word, because it should be have." (Behave)
"My three favorite things are eating my family and not using commas"
And now I know what an Oxford comma is.
I grew up in Oxfordshire and was taught in school that you don't use a comma that way.
Then again I was also told in no uncertain terms that you never start a sentence with the word 'And' and look how that turned out.
“Needless to say, the case was bananas.”
My client wishes to re-peel that statement.
you need not have said that
“Needless to say, the case was bananas.”
**Cue Gwen Stefani
Watching legal eagle instead of studying for my EU law exam is my new hobby
HELP!!! Everybody at my school cyberbullies me because they say my videos are extremely BAD!!! Please help me, dear lee
And I like watching dr mike instead of working on my med school application lol
@@AxxLAfriku they might be right u bot
you're a student from the eu?
Well I feel ya, I have still quite a few years ahead of me before I finish my law school, but I have my own exams to study for and yet, here I am
When a man who is actively suing the government says “sue me,” you know he ain’t playin.
I love this video! THANK YOU! Another good example is:
A: "Bill, George, and I are going to the store."
B: "Bill, George and I are going to the store."
In example A, I am telling an unnamed fourth person (the reader/listener) that three people are going to the store: Bill, George, and myself.
In example B, I am telling Bill that George and I (only two people) are going to the store.
@ExDeeXD Music smart
However, there's a case where the Oxford comma can lead to ambiguity: "My friend, Bill, and George, are going to the store." Now, is Bill the friend or is he a different person from the friend?
@@mmmmmmmmmmmmm Great question! However the Oxford comma specifically pertains to lists. In the example you gave, if you're not making a list, then Oxford comma would not be applicable. Thus, your example is variation of example B, the difference being that the speaker/writer is not participating in the action (going to the store).
If the intent is to say your friend's name is Bill, then yes, one COULD write it the same way as a list...but that doesn't mean they SHOULD. As with the absence of a comma in a list, while it may be common, it is not the best option. If the friend's name is Bill, then the sentence should be written:
"My friend (Bill) and George are going to the store."
Parentheses let the reader know it is an "aside." They know the friend's name is "Bill."
It COULD also be written:
"My friend--Bill--and George are going to the store if the writer wants to stress the importance of Bill being their friend or that the name of their friend is "Bill." The parentheses are the best option for the example you gave if the intent is to name "my friend," though the dashes could be used if more importance is needed.
If "my friend" is NOT Bill, however, then the proper way to write that sentence would be: "My friend, Bill and George are going to the store." You are informing your friend that Bill and George are going to the store and thus no comma is needed after "Bill."
If you were writing this and wanted to make sure you were being clear, then the sentence could also be written "Bill and George are going to the store, my friend." Substitute "Mom" or "Dad" in the place of "my friend" and the example will seem more familiar to most readers/listeners.
In fact, putting a comma after "Bill" in your example changes the meaning, making it a list. This is precisely the point. The comma ADDS clarity. Without the comma, one could ask "well, is your friend going with Bill and George or not?" The presence of a comma makes it clear that it IS a list. The comma makes it clear that all three are going to the store. That is why it should be used in lists. That is also why it should NOT be used in the place of parentheses.
Therefore, if punctuation/grammatical mechanics are used appropriately, one could reasonably infer that the ABSENCE of a comma PROBABLY means you are informing your friend that Bill and George are going to the store, but the reader might have to look at context clues to know for sure. On the other hand, (again, if punctuation is used appropriately) if it is written "My friend, Bill, and George are going to the store," then the reader knows for sure that it is a list without having to look at context clues because of the use of the comma. If there is a possibility that the friend IS Bill, then as always, context is important. Context may be king, but it should not be a crutch.
Another way to think of the punctuation aspect is to consider a different type of punctuation and what it does to a sentence:
A: "My friend, Bill and George are going to the store."
B: "My friend, Bill and George are going to the store!"
They are the same sentence with one small difference in punctuation. One doesn't need context clues to know that one (B) is being exclaimed or otherwise emphatically announced, while the other (A) is merely being stated. Context clues could tell the reader to what degree the exclamation is, but the reader already knows it is an exclamation.
"My friend, Bill, and George are going to the store."
"My friend, Bill and George are going to the store."
"My friend (Bill) and George are going to the store."
@ExDeeXD Music Excellent example! The absence of ANY commas would mean precisely that.
If it were spoken, "Bill George" would have no pause between "Bill" and "George."
As a list, "Bill, George, and I..." would have pauses and both "Bill" and "George."
As a declaration to Bill, "Bill, George and I..." there would only be a pause after Bill.
This demonstrates just how crucial grammar (punctuation, mechanics, spelling, etc.) is to conveying information clearly. Context is king, but it should not be a crutch. Written language is more formal than spoken language BECAUSE of the need for clarity. When speaking with someone, you can ask them what they mean if you aren't sure. You don't necessarily have that option or opportunity if you are just reading something. When speaking with someone, you can also hear their tone and, if you can see them, you can read body language. You can HEAR pauses, volume of voice, etc. Punctuation, mechanics, and spelling fill this void when communicating via written language. That is why they are necessary and the proper use of grammar should be celebrated, encouraged, and expected
@@MHLegacy You're right that parentheses or dashes would also work to name the friend, but that feels like a slightly different meaning. Compare "My friend, Bill, is going to the store.", "My friend (Bill) is going to the store.", and "My friend--Bill--is going to the store." The parentheses make the name--as you've said--feel like more of an aside than necessary, whereas the dashes make the name seem more important than necessary. Only the commas capture the meaning accurately.
"However the Oxford comma specifically pertains to lists. In the example you gave, if you're not making a list, then Oxford comma would not be applicable."
I'm not sure what you're referring to here. In "My friend, Bill, and George are going to the store.", assuming you're naming the friend, sure, technically the second comma isn't the Oxford comma, but I'm not sure why that matters, since there's no way to tell whether a comma is the Oxford comma in this ambiguous case.
As for your statements about where "my friend" is not Bill, I think I was unclear. In the sentence where my friend is not Bill, the intent is not to be talking to my friend, but rather to be stating that all three people are going to the store. Like, I'm talking to a fourth person, and I'm saying that all three people (Bill, George, and my friend) went to the store. Of course, you can resolve the ambiguity by just listing it that way, but again, that's not always ideal.
My point is that in a few specific cases, the Oxford comma can lead to ambiguity. I do agree that in the vast majority of cases (including cases where it would cause no ambiguity either way) it is useful. Thanks for your response by the way!
I loved how they decided to settle on a semicolon to really hammer down their points. It's like using cement to fix holes in the roof after the epoxy didn't work.
Pretty sure they aren't even properly using semicolons, lol.
@@100billionsubscriberswithn4 You can use semicolons for lists, but afaik it's normally used if the items in the list themselves have commas.
@@100billionsubscriberswithn4 semicolons; lol*
Still laughing at that. Not going to make THAT mistake again! :-)
There was a great British book about punctuation called Eats, Shoots and Leaves. The title came from this story: a panda walks into a bar. He orders a sandwich. After finishing it, he produces a rifle that he fires into the air and walks out. As he's walking out, the barman asks him why he did that. "Look me up in the dictionary and you will find out." The barman looks him up: "the panda, bear originating from China, eats, shoots and leaves." Punctuation matters.
Loved that book!
Me too.
I own that book! Don't remember much of it, but I remember enjoying it a lot.
I loved yhat joke when i was a kid. The punchline wasn't the dictionary though, it was misprinted business cards
I've heard a rude version of that joke about a Panda having a one night stand following a date at a restaurant.
Oxford commas aren't always needed... but when they are, they save gallons of brain cells.
I show my daughter how important commas are by using the "Let's eat Grandma." sentence. I've never seen a kids laugh so hard!
Lets! eat grandma
Let's eat! Grandma
are both terrifying
@@NerdyCatCoffeeee Lets! Eat, grandma.
So META and surreal when legal eagle and HAI reference each other in the youtube educational universe.
He was in a video where he was Sam's lawyer's. He was trying to prove that HAI only made brick videos
What's hAIs youtube channel
@@MaggiePies half as intresting
@@superzigzagoon "Sam's lawyer's"? Shouldn't that be "Sam's lawyer"?
@@Joshua_Shadow_Manriguez That's an apostrophe, not a comma, so he's safe.
Objection: You never mentioned how the 2nd Ammendment was ratified with different commas in different states.
If you outlaw commas in the 2nd Amendment, then only outlaws will have commas. :)
how could we support the modern us govt by tariffs and without sales, property, or income taxes?
@@user-nf9xc7ww7m how could we support the modern us govt by tarrifs; and without sales; property; or income taxes?
@@San_Deep2501
We could look to cayman for an example (there are no property, income [personal or corporate], or sales/VAT taxes--funded solely by tariffs and one-time stamp duties on property...ie you own the home instead of paying rent to govt for the rest of your life), as well as mixing a hybrid mando savings account backed by the govt. The mando savings accounts, as used in singapore, supports personal accounting and use of funds saved from each paycheque to pay for housing (or back loans), deductible for public healthcare (govt steps in after that account is emptied for the year--ie $50k person with 5% medisave account has $2,500 deductible that year after which if spent the rest of healthcare including meds is free), and pension (which is converted to a life annuity--private social security that can give up to $5,000 per month to pensioners).
As an English teacher, this video makes me so happy! I got a good laugh from this, and I am totally sharing this with my students tomorrow!
Awsome how did it go?
@@junkoenoshima2756 they were not impressed 🤷♀️ teenagers aren't allowed to find grammar cool, I guess. Thanks for asking!
I've always kinda felt like a weirdo using the oxford comma since practically no one else does but now I feel fully vindicated lol.
I honestly had no idea what it was but always used it. My parents had the bright idea of homeschooling me after the 3rd grade and then realized they both needed to work soon after, or at least my mom needed to work and dad wasn't into teaching. So I learned how to teach myself and I took a long time to finish the 4th and 5th grades then skipped 6 and 7th (must have been in there that they taught about the oxford comma) finished up most of 8th and went to a public high school a year behind where I started. Oh well it all worked out and like I said I learned how to learn by myself which has served me well.
@@Parents_of_Twins i know the point of the video is about the comma, but i want to comment on the "i learned how to learn by myself" because it is a topic i care about alot.
i think you should be glad that you got to learn how to learn because (depending on where you live) school doesnt do that. it tries to cram information in your head for exams. you dont even "learn" it, you memorize it and forget it after the test
you are probably doing this already (i dont know you haha), but use this ability to continue learning through out your life. i know many people who stop learning new things after university. they remain complacent and live horribly mediocre lifes, and many of the things they say are awfully outdated / illogical because they do not think!
@@lemonandgaming6013 Yeah I try to find the silver linings in everything. Life would be boring without learning. Teaching myself TIG welding right now.
You are not alone!
Never dumb yourself down for someone else. If they can't keep up, they's not your problem.
As a voice actor, the casual relationship some writers have with the Oxford comma can be quite maddening. I've had to record many retakes over the years because the use of (or lack of) an Oxford comma often drastically changes how you vocally stress some words and pause before other words.
That's's fascinating to hear! To be honest, I can't ever remember formally *learning* the rule (at least, not until after using it), but the inverse of that (i.e, 'put the comma where there *would* be a break in the cadence of speech') has been my guide to punctuating dialogue in anything I write that needs it for my entire life.
@@vdate I never formally learned that rule, either! It's just something I've noticed after looking at thousands of scripts over the years.
I remember being taught this in my theatre classes, not English. If there was a comma in the line, you were meant to pause when saying the line. Not as long as a period, but just a little. This is how I've used commas now in my writing, which I think irks non-VA's/theatre educated people.
i was taught that commas represent pauses in school but this is the literal first time in my life i have ever heard of anyone treating that as an actual rule and taking it seriously
Oh my god, it’s infuriating isn’t it?! I had a job that wanted me to record several lines for their customer service phone menu, and they didn’t use ANY commas in the lines they sent me. When I record my passes and sent them over, they replied and asked me why I said everything without pausing between the phrases. 🙃
Man, it's weird to watch a Legal Eagle that isn't focused on whatever crazy thing happened in DC this week.
Could life be * gasp * returning to normal?
(Whatever that is.)
Probably because Trump isn't in office. CNN and MSNBC ratings are both down considerably since he left. They're calling it the "Trump Slump".
@@Jar0fMay0 that's flat-out false. In fact, CNN posted it's best ratings for February, ever, last month.
Everyone needs a break from DC.
It'll keep being stupid when we return to our regularly scheduled program.
@@Jar0fMay0 Why do you people just repeat every lie you hear even though it is so easily fact checkable.
As someone who LOVES the Oxford comma after learning about it in high school, I'm so glad you mentioned it. It's certainly a peeve of mine when people don't use it. Also, thank you for creating a grammar-based episode. While now always perfect in my grammar, I love learning more about it and its usefulness.
"Sue me!"
That sure hits different coming from a lawyer
I spent most of my career as an engineer writing, reviewing, and managing technical requirements documents. We tended to avoid the use of commas and semi-colons and use a lot of very short, very terse sentences instead so as to avoid any possible confusion. The extra amount of writing was always cheaper than having to correct an implementation error due to someone misusing or misreading a comma.
In speach and writing, I most certainly feel the need for more complex sentences is preferred, or should at least be an option; but I definitely think that fields such as engineering should avoid them for just the reasons you said.
I think law should probably follow suit.
That may apply to engineering, but in most forms of writing, and SPECIFICALLY in law, where usually very complex concepts are being conveyed, it's better to be more detailed.
@@Tacklepig Actually, writing specifications for engineering is extremely detailed. Specifications for the systems I worked on could number tens of thousands of individual requirements and required relaying very complex concepts (e.g., interactions between users and software or between large computer systems to handle the complexities of processing high speed data streams from satellites or for management of a large city's police and fire emergency response services. In these cases, it was critical to reduce misunderstandings by reducing the complexity of the sentence structure.
@@Tacklepig There's no loss of details, only loss of clarity when writing complex, conjoined sentences. The point of terse sentences or lists is to make it explicitly clear, leaving no room for interpretation or linguistic nuance. The problem with expecting the law to adopt such a posture is that it would possibly end the need for lawyers and judges to interpret the meaning of the law.
@@kjmason62 ) Now your brackets have been closed.
As a d&d player, this sounds like the types of arguments/confusing rules you can run into
RAW vs RAI? :)
@ exactly
This was specifically a discussion my group had in DnD last night
Remember the original rule set was written by college age kids and some of their younger friends in the south side of Chicago, who had things like not having breakfast, or after school activities with snacks, so punctuation wasn't exactly a white box edition feature, and all dungeon masters should have extra harassment features prepared for rules lawyers annoying everyone else too much. ❤😊
This also reminds me of occasionally confusing rule text on Magic the Gathering cards, where it's not immediately obvious due to ambiguity in language. I believe MtG always uses the Oxford comma though, so no problem there.
Today I had to read the title deed on a house (you know, for the family business) & it didn't have a single comma anywhere, it was like they had printed it using an old-fashioned printing press & run out of commas because they'd used them all as single quotation marks. At the end I left a notation: "All parties have taken great care to ensure that there are no commas present in any part of this document".
Small correction: Casement wasn't investigating Belgian human rights abuses in Peru, that's conflating two separate cases. Casement was already famous for publishing the 1905 Casement Report, which exposed the atrocities being done against natives in the Congo by Belgian soldiers and mercenaries for the first time. He was knighted in 1911 for his investigation and exposure of the practices of Peruvian and Brazilian rubber barons.
this has to be an oxford comma joke right?
Boy I hope he doesn’t get demonetized for all this hot, steamy grammar-based edutainment.
Did he use any assault commas?
I was raised by my grandmother, who taught English Language at Salve Regina University back when my father was a child. Proper grammar, spelling, and punctuation had been baked into me from a very young age. One of the ways she'd explain the Oxford Comma (though she didn't call it "the Oxford Comma", it was just "correct grammar"):
"If you write "the store has cases of pears, apples, peaches, and plums," that means the store has cases containing pears, cases containing apples, cases containing peaches, and cases containing plums; if you write "the store has cases of pears, apples, peaches and plums," that means the store has cases containing pears, cases containing apples, and cases containing a mix of peaches and plums."
Exactly! The last two items get lumped together as opposed to being their own separate items.
Or, even more pedantic, the store has cases of pears and a loose collection of apples, peaches, and plums which may or may not equal a case each.
@@petertrudelljr or to be correct: the store certainly cases their apples. The mixe refers to the apples, peaches and plums. So if the peaches are in a case so are the apples.
It could also be taken as the store having cases, EACH of which contains a mix of the four fruits listed.
BTW, why "cases" and not boxes, or crates, or flats, or baskets?
The sentence "the store has cases of pears, apples, peaches and plums", written with these punctuation marks, would mean “there are various cases with one type of fruit in the store” if written in German (Germany). It’s the same for Chinese. If you want to say there are also cases containing two types of fruit, you’d have to explicitly say so.
I do understand the usage of the Oxford comma, but that doesn’t mean it’s the only way to convey proper meaning. It is just a certain writing style English writing adopted
Using the Oxford comma was very thoroughly beaten into me at school and I cannot understand not using it. Eagle here points out the legal ramifications but 40+ years in manufacturing has taught me never to leave any possible way to misinterpret instructions. The old line "when I nod my head hit it your hammer" would have left half of my workers somewhat concussed
Don’t figure the famous song “Come On Eileen” which forgot the comma and makes people think of something else
The Rolling Stones have Paint It, Black. It's supposed to be Paint It Black.
Well if you read the lyrics to the song it could very well mean the no-comma version.
I went to the disco.
They played the boogie, I did the boogie.
They played the smash, I did the smash.
They played Come on Eileen, I got kicked out for that one.
Eats, shoots and leaves is a great book about this as well.
Just what I was going to say. Vegetarian or murder?
You actually got an audible laugh out of me with the "no comma" punchline 😂
@Climate Change will Kill us All !!! He literally did an entire video on lawyers and climate change just two weeks ago. So... yeah.
Same lol
@Climate Change will Kill us All !!! Am I missing something? How did a statement about climate change stem from this comment? Are you just posting everywhere to raise awareness?
@@iainsmith7427 Word of advice, don't feed the troll. He's obviously just doing this to get a reaction.
@Climate Change will Kill us All !!! reported for spam
"Let's eat, Grandma!"
"Let's eat Grandma!"
*Two very different meanings.*
"I helped my uncle Jack, off a horse"
"I helped my uncle jack off a horse"
Commas save lives.
(I actually previously saw the example you gave on a shirt with a meme on it showing the two sentences followed by "Commas save lives").
It's not Oxford comma though
@@jamieward9402 you don't need the comma there. Just an uppercase letter for Jack is enough.
@@Zyphera you don't need a full stop after there, a semi-colon is better.
1:05 - The case of the 2M$ comma
5:30 - Oxford comma
10:20 - Roger casement comma
14:00 - End roll ads
As a proofreader whose job consists of fixing grammar and punctuation errors, this is absolutely fascinating. Good to see that my profession is more important than most people think! 😉
Now if only it was paid accordingly
Hopefully you haven't gotten anyone killed.
It drives me crazy when my authors don't understand why a missed comma or apostrophe is so important. I'm supposed to be hypercritical, or I'm of no use to them, but I always have *reasons* for marking something up. 😁
Your job is absolutely crucial to the continued existence of human society, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Same here. I've been sneakily adding Oxford commas wherever they're needed, simply because I haven't felt like getting into this discussion with my ESL clients. However, as time goes by, and as they continue to make the same errors, I'm beginning to think I might just have to bite that bullet sooner than later.
I always use an Oxford comma when typing sentences that involve multiple groups of people, places, and things.
Not because I was ever aware of the legal implications, but rather because my favorite author, J.R.R. Tolkien was an English language scholar at the University of Oxford. And I also learned from him that you can use the word _and_ at the beginning of a sentence.
even though i know i can use the word "and" at the beginning of a sentence, it still feels wrong for some reason
@@calebb5106 Maybe because your teachers told you it was? I've never used 'and ever in the beginning of a sentence because of it
are there specific situations where "and" at the beginning of a sentence is correct? Because I, like many people was told it was always wrong.
PS, see if you caught the "," I deliberately omitted just to screw with your reading of the above
@@Twisted_Code technically there could also be a *""* added to that statement in the first sentence that would change how you read it if you wanted to be snippy. That's just getting complicated though for the sake of getting complicated
Are there "specific situations" where "and" at the beginning of a sentence is correct?
Wait...you can use "and" at the beginning of a sentence?!?!
My personal experience with ambiguous statements was when I was in a college Chemistry class, and the syllabus included the rule, "Do not eat, drink, or apply makeup in the classroom."
I couldn't not giggle when I immediately imaged everyone eating and drinking makeup.
another funny way to interpret this: “in the classroom” is part of the last item of the list. “do not eat. do not drink. do not apply makeup in the classroom.”
Commas can save lives. Here’s an example: “Let’s eat, Grandpa” vs “Let’s eat Grandpa”
When you say "sue me" it's more of a threat than a turn of phrase lolol
I picture HAI guy calling the only lawyer he knows to take the case, which is LegalEagle. But Devin's defense is locked down using character evidence provided by Sam from Wendover about what a jerk the HAI guy is.
I prefer the Shatner comma.
It's when you, pepper it in, for, dramatic emphasis.
Christopher Walken, would, like a word, with you
@@ananthropomorphictalkinggo6641 Walken, is now, on, Zoom, with Devin talking, about suing, Shatner, over, who owns the, above-mentioned, comma.
You mean, the ,, William, Shatner, comma,, ,, dont you ?
Are you sure he's not just trying to remember his lines?
IRS: You owe us income taxes.
Taxpayer: Okay, how much do I owe you?
IRS: That’s for you to figure out.
Taxpayer: Oh, so I can just tell you any number?
IRS: No. We know exactly how much you owe us.
To be fair, the IRS would prefer to just send out a check or a bill. The problem is they're forbidden from doing that by law, with tax firms lobbying to keep it that way.
Wait you pay taxes
9:53 I abstract legal documents for clients and seeing semicolons used like this at work is amusing to me. The lawyers who drafted those documents must have had some real issues involving commas in the past.
There is a joke in Norwegian, about a man who has been sentenced to death. He has asked for a pardon, and the executioner is waiting for the answer from the mayor (or whoever is supposed to pardon him).
When the reply comes, it reads "Heng ham ikke vent til jeg kommer". Which, depending on where you want to put the comma, would either translate as "Hang him not, wait for me to arrive", or "Hang him, don't wait for me to arrive".
That said, we don't use the Oxford comma in Norwegian, but we are taught to use it in English. So a not uncommon error when kids write Norwegian, is for them to use the Oxford comma.
A more common error in Norwegian is to not use compound words. A classic example, "ananasbiter" means "pieces of pineapple", whereas "ananas biter" means "pineapple bites".
Same in some other languages. Oxford grammar does not apply and English punctuation is generally considered weird.
So, this would involve the Oslo comma?
@@davidanderson_surrey_bc Possibly, but we don't name our commas after various cities. We leave that to the brits.
"Excuse me, *former* President Trump. That felt good." Omg, laughed so hard at that.
Also, my mother-in-law was a contract negotiator for many years, and the importance of commas properly place is never to be underestimated.
Until his research team starts demanding more hours than "watched the president's latest speech" in order to find a horrific breach of legal doctrine to make a video about.
Oh it feels much better knowing trump gets to extend his ideology 4 years over his intended time slot just because DEMs thought they could leap frog jokes on them in the next election when its Harris vs Trump thats going to be a landslide for REPs. Its not even a contest guys, ITS ALMOST LIKE CHEATING!
Totally on purpose I am pretty sure he consciously knew Donald Trump was no longer the president of the United States of America.
Yet America bleeds... For Biden... As expected.
I'm so glad you support the Oxford comma. So many of my classmates in high school ignored the Oxford comma and my teachers never enforced it. It was incredibly frustrating for me.
Semantics is such a huge issue in communication nowadays (seeing how were just advanced monkeys and language is a highly imperfect way to share our thoughts and emotions)... I freaking LOVE that you address these issues, with comedy mind, and helpful hints. Thanks bro you do great work!
As a fellow advocate for the Oxford comma, I salute you.
So do my sister, my brother, and myself
As a kid, I was never taught of the Oxford comma, we just called it good grammar. "When listing things, seperate all of them with a comma."
As an English person I think the strict adherence Americans display is painful and adds ambiguity. Take the following example:
"Squirrels, the neighborhood children, and I use the downstream fence as a swaying bridge across the creek"
Are squirrels the neighbourhood children? Poetically speaking, they could be, but I’m fairly sure that’s not the intent. Without the Oxford comma, there would be no ambiguity.
@@Maninawig We were taught to list things with commas, except for the final item which would be seperated exclusively by the 'and'
@@thomas316 If you wanted to clarify that the squirrels were the neighborhood children, you would use the following:
"The squirrels (neighborhood children) and I use the downstream fence as a swaying bridge across the creek."
This vid was satisfying, entertaining, and brilliantly edited.
This reminds me of something an English instructor stated about contract law once: Basically if I created a will to leave all my money to three people, I would NEVER do it like: "I, Soulsphere, do hereby leave all my money and worldly possessions to my sons and daughter John Smith, Joe Smith and Jane Smith." In this case, fifty percent of everything goes to John while Jane and Joe only get twenty-five percent each.
EDIT: Commas really do matter.
What
@@joshwhite5730
Commas matter.
Why does John get the 50%, though?
@@eyesofthecervino3366
Because of the way the English language works, at least as far as in things like contracts or other business related things. If you don't have a comma between everyone, it sort of sees Joe Smith and Jane Smith as one entity, so they get 50% together, which is broken up into 25% each. If that makes sense.
@@Soulsphere001
Oh, I see! I guess if I were trying to write it to have that meaning I would've written it as "John Smith and Joe and Jane Smith," but I can see how your example would be ambiguous enough to be a problem in legal contracts.
I totally agree about using commas, btw. Just couldn't figure out the logic in this exact example :P
0:59 You know shit's about to go down when a *lawyer* says 'sue me'
"And apparently the Internet is very, very divided on the Oxford comma. Half of the Internet likes to be wrong." 🔥 🔥 🔥 Roasted
9:58 reminds me of the Spongebob episode where he has to spit in between his words, just so the members of Rock Bottom can understand him.
"I can't.. 💨 understand...💨 your accent 💨💨"
totally unrelated but I recently had to hire a lawyer because a scammer tried to scam me off of a really high amount of money. To say I would admire lawyers and their hard work would be an understatement now. I am so fascinated by y'alls hard work - THANK YOU. I've never been more excited to take a scammer down, especially because my lawyer RIPPED HIM APART. Hahaha
That's law working for the people. I'm glad your legal venture came to a great end!
@@REAL2222ful Thank you Jorge! I got lucky because I know someone who's a lawyer and he referred me to a colleague /friend of his and told me to say I came from him. Thats why I didn't have to pay the full amount my (now) lawyer usually takes. My point: ALWAYS be kind to everyone you know because it WILL pay off :)
@@sophieflach1098 Sage advice, Sophie. 😁
"Let's go eat, kids"
"Let's go eat kids"
Yes, commas are important.
I ate my love
I ate, my love
Honestly both sentences are fine, after all, you need to get the kids to the dining table somehow, irrespective of your actual purpose :P.
@@Melesniannon "People say you shouldn't shake babies, but I find if you don't give 'em a good shake they don't bake evenly." - George Carlin
The teacher, said the principal , is a fool.
The teacher said, the principal is a fool.
"Let's go, Eat kids"
"This isn't a friggin podcast"
Me, who was listening to this video as if it were a podcast on my drive home: 👁👄👁
LOL, I too was just listening. (between Anthropocene Review, & " ask hank & John " both of which ARE Podcast.) and had to sit down or fall down
@@AbqDez this comment screams 50yr old dad vibes.
As a Brit we don’t really have to worry about Tax Day (our taxes are done for us) even I appreciated the Tax Day “Dun dun duuun!” Haha
That's the "Roseanne" audit audio sting, correct?
You guys get healthcare *and* tax filing?
That tidbit might actually help convince quite a bit of the anti-government health coverage folks here in the states to convert. "Someone else will file and process your taxes for you for *free* if this bill goes through."
@@searchingfororion yep, and automatic tax refunds if we pay too much, we just get sent a cheque, we don’t have to lift a finger xD
@@Duros360 I was going to write a response to this in US southern dialect and then realized I can't because I revert to UK idioms and spelling by osmosis.
(I was going to start the statement with "what a load of bollocks" then 🤔🧐 no one in the south talks like that - let alone do I think they even know what that means. I can't get my brain to switch into the other mode!)
Despite my utter failure regarding what I intended to comment originally I am going to say that "cheque" is now added to my vocabulary.
(I can't express enough how much I love this! Especially since I had a situation where someone was very hostile regarding my use of laser v.s lazer and - this is an *actual* quote from an adult over 40; "Clearly you do not have a firm grasp of the English language since you did this multiple times." 👀 Explaining *that* was fun.) Situations like that occur for me all the time so I can't wait for the next opportunity to use 'cheque' in a sentence.
Do you also use this spelling in chess ect, or only regarding money matters?
@@searchingfororion it’s still “check” in chess afaik, but the real question is:
What’s *colour* was that *laser* pen? And was it made out of aluminum or *aluminium* ? Lol. (My iPad underlined aluminum as wrong btw :P)
Yeah, a few years ago my brother “worked for” as a delivery driver, turns out he was classed as a “self employed driver”, not an employee, so they didn’t do his taxes (PAYE wise) for him, so he was working a whole 18 months until he got a phone call from HMRC (our IRS), that he hadn’t paid any income tax or national insurance the last 18 months. They were very understanding (people being “unknowingly self employed”is quite common for people working “in/for a Brazilian Rainforest” (if you catch my drift). HMRC gave him 30 months to settle up (or a 6 year payment plan) no fire or brimstone, they came with a solution, not an ultimatum, lol
I love these videos; both highly entertaining and educational. However, you regularly make mention to the "circuit courts" (e.g., the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals or something similar). I would love to see a video explaining the setup of these courts, what is a "circuit court", etc.
From my understanding, there are no circuit courts. The term “10th circuit” refers to the location and jurisdiction of the court. “Court of Appeals”, meanwhile, refers to the fact that this specific court handles appeals from the lower courts within its jurisdiction. It cannot deny the appeals, but it has a small enough jurisdiction that it doesn’t need to. The Supreme Court, on the other hand, handles appeals from the Appellate Courts in its jurisdiction. It can decline to hear arguments because it has such a large jurisdiction that, even when declining most appeals, it still has a full schedule. This structure exists in both federal and state levels within the US. Hope this helps!
Whoever edits your videos lately, give them a raise.
What is the difference between a literalist and a kleptomaniac?
A literalist takes things literally.
A Kleptomaniac takes things, literally.
This is why people that purposely utilize incorrect grammar are just plain stupid. Proper grammar is so important to so many things. There is literally a story of a beggar girl who was taught proper grammar and was thought to be a princess just because of her speech. It really shows intelligence and dignity.
Here's how to settle the Oxford comma debate:
Let me introduce you to my wife, my best friend, and my sister.
Let me introduce you to my wife, my best friend and my sister.
The one I heard was "I saw the strippers, JFK, and Stalin."
Let me introduce you to my friends: a colon and a brain.
Use a colon :
They are the same
"Let's go get some Italian, baby."
"Let's go get some Italian baby."
Well, the first could be interpreted as you going to get some random Italian person.
"who's that?"
"oh, just some Italian."
The second one simply more explicitly states that that person is a baby.
1. Dare calling me a baby?
2. Awww, how sweet, what shall we name the baby?
We have a similar story in the Persian language that I remember from my school days.
A judge once said "Forgiveness, not necessary (to) hang him." but he missed the comma in the order so the executioner read it as "Forgiveness (is) not necessary, hang him" and so you could say that a person hanged by a comma!
I have heard the same but in Swedish.
How are you so funny, ridiculously smart, a successful lawyer, attractive, not cocky about any of it, and a slew of other positive adjectives? How do you do it? You’re my favourite.
I do find it interesting however that he rails against the use of AI when it comes to the law, yet AI tools can identify these very sorts of issues that may slip past humans.
For example, in his above example, I asked ChatGPT to see if it could identify any grammatical ambiguities in the royal statute he listed at the end, and it accurately caught it:
-----
The sentence "if a Man do levy War against our Lord the King in his Realm, or be adherent to the King's Enemies in his Realm, giving to them Aid and Comfort in the Realm, or elsewhere" is grammatically correct but there is a potential for grammatical ambiguity in the phrase "in the Realm, or elsewhere". It is unclear if "elsewhere" refers to a location outside the realm or to a different aspect of giving aid and comfort (i.e. not just in the realm). The meaning could be made clearer by rephrasing the sentence to state specifically what is meant by "elsewhere".
-----
Legislators or attorneys could absolutely use these tools to hunt for grammatical ambiguities (and so many other things) of use in an automated fashion. AI tools don't have to be flawless or able to fully replace attorneys in order to be very useful.
Devin? I just became a patron cuz I'm too old to go to law school now but I live vicariously through you
As a former lawyer and English composition teacher cannot describe how much I love this. I will stop using the Oxford Comma when I no longer have the physical capacity to write, the mental capacity to form coherent sentences, or I have taken my dying breath.
Hey you used one in this comment!
@@angadsingh9314, uh ... I think you missed their point (unless I'm missing your point). Read their comment again more carefully.
To be fair, Death usually assumes the former two, but I guess if you're able to think coherently and have the ability to write while dead, you'd be too busy showing off your undead powers to worry about grammar.
@@drderpphd No, I get that he likes the Oxford comma. Was just pointing out that he used one here.
There truly is a fight between the use of the Oxford comma, a bad use of punctuation, and the lack of clarity in writing.
My mom taught English as a second language (ESL) teacher. She always said that if you list three items, you use two commas. Five items means you need four commas. And so on.
“Grapes, pears, and apples”
Yep it checks out
Alas, your mum is wrong. A comma followed by "and" is redundant.
@@michaeljohnangel6359 no isn't the comma changes the meaning.
@@esthermclauchlan3146 An oxford comma really doesn't change the meaning in any well written sentence or list. It changes the meaning only when other prepositions or punctuation would confuse it (the example legal eagle gave was because he put his parents first, causing a possible apostrophe). If you can remove/add a comma and be confused on the meaning, the sentence should be rewritten entirely.
@@KaosOrder and often in rewriting the sentence you change the meaning as well. The fact is the Oxford comma serves an important purpose, like all grammar. You can't just decide its irrelevant.
This is my favorite kind of content. Thanks for the upload!
Thank you. I have had many arguments over the Oxford comma. I will now just direct them to this video.
"Sue me"
I guess he really wants to see me in court.
He's that confident. Don't mess with him, he has two former Presidents as fathers. LOL.
"Eats, shoots & leaves" was one of my favorite grammar books.
This is your finest work, sir.
There is another legal case where a company lost millions due to a comma, but unlike the age-old Oxford comma debate, this one was about the distinction between a restrictive relative clause and a descriptive one. This is fascinating stuff and if you ever make another video on punctuation in lethal matters, you should definitely include it! (I wish I remembered the name of the company so you could more easily research this but sadly I don't)
I don't know about commas; but a missing colon can be a matter of life and death.
I seem to remember that the Franco-Prussian War was kicked off by Bismark swapping a full-stop for a comma in the Ems Dispatch.
I don't this would count as an Oxford coma but think from Lionel Hutz "No money down" versus "No, money down"
The sheer power of a lawyer saying "Sue Me" is too much for mere mortals
That Maine State Law example is so infamous that it turned up in my UCSD copyediting program as an example of what *not* to do.
There are 2 kinds of people: people who use the Oxford comma rules, and people who are wrong.
This reminded me of my favourite story with the importance of commas. It is a 100% real story. In the autumn of 1213 the queen-consort of Hungary, Gertrudis wanted to appoint her younger brother(Otto) as Arch-bishop of Kalocsa. The nobility didn't really fancy the idea, so they plotted to murder her(as you do in medieval Europe). The Palatine of Hungary(similar to the english Lord Chancellor) also took part in it. They sent a letter to the Arch-bishop of Esztergom(head of the Hungarian Church) to invite him to the plot, or atleast give his blessing. He couldn't decide. Firstly the appointment threatened his status, special priviliges and the sanctitiy of the Church.(Otto had a wild adolescense) On the other hand being complicit in a murder could get him killed, should thing back-fire. He wrote an answer in Latin(the official language of the Church). "Reginam occidere nolite timere bonum est si omnes consentiunt ego non contradico". He deliberetley didn't put in any commas. It rougly translates to:"Fear not to kill the queen if all support I don't object" With 2 different placement of commas it can either support the plot or oppose it. The plot was succesfull and the Arch-bishop was declared innocent by Pope Innocent III. (pun intended) (The translation is not perfect, it was done by me from Hungarian) It was later made into a play and an Opera by József (Joseph) Katona and Ferenc (Franz/Francis) Erkel. It even got into a University "Rhetorics" course book in 1235. Christopher Marlowe used this letter in his "Edward the second) play
So the idea was that if the plot succeeded, the archbishop could say he meant the commas to be in place to say he supported it, and if it failed, he could say the commas should have been in place to say he opposed it? Shrewd.
It's a good story, one I have heard many times. The only thing is that the moral of the story would not have been, then, the need of commas: in medieval texts, punctuation was haphazard, more often omitted than provided. In fact, even spaces between words was a relatively recent innovation. There were 'points and tickles' as a sort of comma, but mostly these were present in texts that were meant to be read aloud, to help the reader phrase it correctly.
There are no commas in Latin.
@@MathewWalls That would explain why he didn't write any
@@MathewWalls that was my point - in medieval script there was in some cases some punctuation (the punctus) used notably by Irish and Anglo-Saxon scribes) ’ but it was erratic and far from standardized. The anecdote told by A. Gergely would thus have been a good lesson in the ways different Latin phrases can be construed, but not in the value of punctuation marks. (See the standard work on the subject, Malcolm B. Parkes, Pause and Effect., U. California Press, 1993.
I really LOVE your site! Especially at the end of it when I can shut it off.
Excellent video, Dude. Always good but this was above and beyond.
My Two Presidential Dad's....might be the best sitcom ever
You are up to something!
If Pete Buttigieg became President and then his husband Chasten Buttigieg ran and won a later term it could be a real thing.
"But how can we help our lawyer son rehearse for the school play while we're *also* hosting a bipartisan negotiation without Hilary finding out and telling Old Man Cheney?!?"
@@1dgram Reminds me of a news story that mentioned Colorado's First Gentleman. My first thought was "I thought their governor was named Jared---waaaiit..."
When commas are life and death
Cries in Javascript
*insert "how did you get so ripped?" "Everytime i forget a semi-colon, i do a push-up" meme*
This was actually one of my favourites, man!
Always love your vids!
devin your suits are always on point 🥺
Ah, the good old comma. The english equivalent of the decimal point.
Perfect analogy!
but isn't a decimal point technically just a period (.)? Wouldn't that be its english equivalent?🤓
@@noahj.1232 shutup dork 🤣 but I liked your comment
also the british use a period as a decimal point, and commas for the splitting of large numbers (1,000,000.00 for instance)
@@noahj.1232 and to make things weird, continental Europe use commas as decimal points and periods as the multiplication symbol
I, for one, love the comma so much, that, I may in fact, actually be overusing it to a great degree. I not only use it when initiating dialogue, but also pauses, introductory clauses, non-essential clauses, adjectives, and so many other cases.
... that I may, in fact,...
There's was a book I read that had this whole paragraph as a chapter. I can't remember the name, it was about a kid who was learning to read and write and became friends with a handicapped smart kid that died to Leukemia or something
let me introduce you to the semicolon ;;;
So uncomfortable to read 😂
Well; I; personally; prefer to overuse the underrated; amazing semi-colon; even in places where it definitely shouldn't be used;
I've recently been binging this entire channel worth of videos, love the suit in this one may buy one myself.
I enjoyed this discussion very much. Having been a technical writer, punctuation and grammar are very important topics to me.
You managed to make the sexy topic of punctuation even sexier than it already was. Hat's off to you, sir!
Given your first sentence, that apostrophe in the second is...awkward.
@@MisterNohbdy Maybe he's sent his hat off to Devin to keep as a token of appreciation, and it's you and I who got it wrong.
I had a chat with a friend, she has graduate degrees in English and psychology, and I argued(in 2006) that texting and small form communication would evolve language at a rapid pace. She disagreed. Well...
This episode was great!
10:05 would've been even better if they answered in just three characters, though I suppose that would only work in a text format: "no,"
either way that had me cracking up
Fun fact: The Associated Press Stylebook doesn’t use the Oxford comma. Most journalists (everyone I know at least) follow AP Style. That’s why you might notice it not being used as much in news articles.
Apparently though you can use it if not using it would cause confusion. Though, at that point, one must wonder why they don’t say to just use it at all times. It’s clearly the superior choice.
I knew about that, but I only just now realized why. I'm guessing it originally happened as a result of newspaper articles needing to be more space efficient.
100% about saving space and also, in the days when print was king, saving ink. Eliminating any unnecessary punctuation and titles can really add up when your printing thousands of papers everyday.
@@The123dino True enough. When you're printing thousands of papers a day, those commas add up.
I was taught to always use the Oxford comma at all times in junior high. IN JUNIOR HIGH.
The AP stylesheet was predicated on Linotype newspaper typography and meant to economize space as much as possible by keeping punctuation to a minimum and closing up spaces whenever possible. AP not only suppressed the terminal serial comma (now called the Oxford in honor of the beloved Vivian Ridler of OUP), it also suppressed the possessive "s" in sibilants (such as "James' " instead of "James's"). As such it was a triumph of thriftiness over clarity.
The correction stuffed full of semi colons gave me the best laugh of the year.
"What's sexier than commas? Semicolons!"
It's similar to what I do whenever the compiler says my code is missing a semicolon.
Man. I'm not much of a fashionista, and I'm shocked that I would even notice, but that suit rocks.
you may think this video wasn't in high demand, but every composition teacher in your follows is delighted