Viktoras Bachmetjevas - In Absence of Contrition and Punishment for its Crimes can Russia Progress?
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- čas přidán 3. 06. 2024
- Viktoras Bachmetjevas is a philosopher with an interest in ethics, especially the intersection of ethics and the philosophy of religion. Today we’ll be discussing issues as diverse as the threat from autocracy and oligarchy, corruption, and nepotism, and well as Forgiveness, contrition, and victimhood.
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BOOKS:
Philosophy of Humour: New Perspectives: 389 (Value Inquiry Book)
by Daniel O'Shiel and Viktoras Bachmetjevas (2023)
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When the Soviet Union fell it did not go through a process such as de-nazification in Germany nor was it demilitarized as Japan. Many of the Soviet structures survived in Russia and we are witnessing that today.
Excellent observation. The power players from the USSR just moved into new positions.
Good point
@@concord14 the only power players were those relative conservatives involved in gvt, thus mostly bureacrats who were in the security services, which were the largest such services ever created on earth, by a massive margin.
0 Views, 0 Comments, 46 seconds up. Let us change that, and comment for the Algorithm
for the "Algorithm"? that was never in my thoughts but yes... 😂 for almost 20 years maybe? i barely almost never posted any comments, for a pretty wide variety of reasons... and while i don't want to get into fights with CZcams experts (in quotes) 😉, i certainly do now take the time to write and comment and reply. 😃❤ and it is, indeed, though it works in shadowy ways, probably useful for channel publicity. Jonathan Fink's work is excellent, the content is always worthwhile to listen to, and his guests are all great and some (like a former American commander of the EU troops i shall not name ;) are biggly (apologies for the Trumpism ;p) are even very recognized and respected names. cheers!
truly a gem out there that needs to be discovered. 😃i don't remember how i came to know the channel myself, but it was around the same time i discovered Perun (who does "explainers" in traditional low-tech Powerpoint (ehh... lol. :D ❤) format - a big favorite of mine, every sunday ;).) right around when the war on Ukraine started. been listening to Inside Russia (Konstantin Somolyov (sp?), a very frequent guest/partner here and i'd imagine one of Jonathan's favorites!) for a little bit too, very neat content. ((i do try to spread the word here and there, but sadly most of my friends and family does not seem to care much about politics or world happenings 😃))
footnote: i've been following the war since day 1, pretty much every day, and interested in all talks concerning it... i do not understand the war, but i am absolutely outraged by it (to the point where, as a pacifist, was - for the first time in my lifetime - "tilted", to be polite, by it, and i've even constantly been thinking think about joining the international volunteer corps... only to be reminded every time i would probably be more of a burden than anything else, and may be better working on helping however i can from over here in Canada.)
anyway, i want to understand every aspect of it as much as i can, because Russia had always been a country towards which i felt mostly neutral - you do you, kind of thing, as much as i may not agree with most of it, as long as you don't brew storms up... and every day i learn more and piece more of this puzzle (well, to me it is one) thanks to Jon and the likes. :) neutral, but hopeful... i stand with Ukraine, but i do not stand against the Russians per se. every day that passes with the war still going on is a tragedy, for both sides in my opinion but for the whole world. :( and it has to end. not that that last comment has any power to it, i am just constantly looking towards the horizon...
@@takingbacktheplanet yeah, this 'war' has to be ended by some form of actual containment of Ru's mil capabilities. I assume ppl understand that western leaders can't yet say that out loud, but it's an obvious fact, bcuz of the extreme energy the Ru's have put into this war of extreme sadism & terrorism. It's human nature to be 'stunned' and slow, & for some, to be in denial for way too long. But we need to pick up the pace now. Ru & other a-moral immoral countries including some nihilistic ones, are feeling generally encouraged by how Ru has plodded along so far with exceedingly careful slow western responses. Time is getting short, imho, as a long term student of history, war, pol-econ, econ, finance, and even accounting/accountancy!.
Many of my seemingly innocuous comments disappear... fairly often.
Usually when I tangle with the Putin trolls. Can downvoting and reporting get comments removed?
@@CONTACTLIGHTTOMMY I have no idea. Both FB and YT are opaque.
Jonathan and Viktoras, is it possible that Russia victimises itself and blaming the world?
Yes, this is very much part of the psychological dynamic I think
The alleged " mysterious russian soul" and victim image have long since become part of Russian state doctrine. Retreating into a shell of innocence, playing the victim, and at the same time spreading thousands of contradictory propaganda lies - is a smokescreen method to distract from its crimes.
I have spent a great deal of time in both Russia and Ukraine over the past 40 years...I have lived in Czech Rep and Poland for almost 30 years now. And yes victim mentality and a sense of entitlement to be "great" is endemic in Russian mentality. Add to that...the fact that Russians in general have no concept of community at home or abroad makes for a nation and mentality that is deeply dysfunctional and not capable of being accountable.
Strong passage in which he talks about Russia's deep desire for fear among neighbors. It's interesting and shocking to see how openly this desire is being articulated in Russian media.
Even more shocking when you ask yourself which other nations actively choose to inspire fear in others. YMMV but the only one that stands out to me is North Korea.
Nothing new is there. It is the core part of their sado-masochistic culture. I'm a slave but then if you fear my master I feel better. It's about channelizing the negative energy caused by suppression of each individual. It is how russia was built and has been maintained by.
You and your guests dig very, very deep and unearth the raw and real truth. Often the truth is so unpalatable to to imagine, but you face all the facts and the vital issues head on. That takes an awful lot of doing; clear mindedness, independent and, unbiased integrity? This is very very rare. It is an inspiration to us all and everyone who is involved in true factual journalism and politics..
Well put 👍 plus unwavering determination on top
Thank you so much for another great guest. Viktoras told about the crisis of mutual trust. It’s a very important point. Trust is one of the main targets of Kremlin's propaganda. And they obviously succeeded in undermining it. We also observe a strong want of world leadership - no Western politicians took full responsibility to effectively deter the claims of the world dictators.
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Absolutely fantastic insights and perspectives from Mr. Bachmetjevas. Speaking as a gen Z American, these stories from post-soviet countries about their existential struggle for democratic self-governance are never taught, let alone even mentioned, during our world-history curriculum in primary or secondary school. The American coconsciousness pertaining to events in Eastern Europe just straight up ends at the collapse of the Soviet Union.
What nonsence your talking. USA is not a democracy it's a constitutional Republic. So you think George Washington was elected ?your founding fathers despiced Democracy and called it "mobocracy". You have a one pary state with two sides to give you the ilision of Democrasy. Your government represents capital not people. So please spare the democracy crap
@@samsungtap4183 run along krembot. Your precious Russia has been shown for the Potemkin power it is.
PS: nuclear blackmail, does that sound like a tactic of someone who is certain they shall win?
Another fascinating interview. Thank you.
Thank you Jonathan and Viktoras! Jonathan you bring the best and thought provoking guests to us! How to you do it? Always entertaining! I always learn something new!
This was not the first time I've heard about the Russians wanting to be respected and feared. This is a culture feature within the Russians themselves! This explains their army's behavior. What kind of person thinks like this! Thank you again!
Thanks great discussion
Excellent interview as always, thanks Jonathan! Great guest. Love hearing from Lithuanians. Good people. They are very sympathetic to Ukrainians. We became good friends with several Lithuanians expats here in the US. Enjoyed the entire podcast.
Timothy Snyder made an interesting point, empires become static, solidified until they lose. It's happened throughout human history.
Once an empire, a conquering nation faces a very powerful defeat then those nations are essentially forced to face the idea they're NOT indispensable, NOT the more powerful.
Unfortunately people in various countries are reluctant to deal with the losses, the feeling of "being humiliated" and it takes time, some personal reconning to change.
A very interesting conversation. But then your conversations invariably are, which is why I am a fan. I didn’t know Viktoras Bachmetjevas before but I am very glad I do now. Victimhood in abundance is on display as it has been for years. Contrition, there is no sign of and it will be a long time before forgiveness is earned.
I enjoy watching your videos and learn much from them. Clear and insightfull content. Thanks much.
Fascinating discussion. When the Russia invaded Ukraine full scale in 2022, I saw a nation unify to fight in every way they could against an existential threat. Perhaps it was the utter savage cruelty that Russian forces employed, or the vile propagandist Kremlin rhetoric, or both- but clearly, it amplified the Good vs Evil concept. I also couldn't help feeling that Putin shaped his narratives (of grievance) not on what he ACTUALLY believed, but what he thought his people WOULD BELIEVE and respond well to. And that's an act of bad faith, isn't it? He who has great power has great responsibility to engage truthfully. If Putin willingly distorts history and facts, then claims "victimhood" and uses this as an excuse to murder, he's not selling truth, he's just manipulating and brazenly expecting the world not to challenge him. He lies, he knows you know he's lying, but he doesn't care- because what are you going to do about it?
Fear creates respect; It doesn't.
Please clarify how something that does doesn’t.
@@Awibrahor it creates caution & possibly contempt for those who use fear to change countries and individuals.
Lots of trolls attack with: "Russians are not in control of this war, they are innocent";
to which I always reply: "take your complaint to Putin"!
A wonderful conversation thank you both very much.
Wowowow… fabulous intellectual guest…
Jon u bring up your personal understanding here and there REALLY helps contextually.
In response to your title I would say No.
just started listening. Looking forward to it he conversation.
Разом ми переможемо
Most of Europe gave up the project of state sponsored colonial empire building in the 20th century. Russia, always a bit slow, did not get the message. Imagine admiring the West as part of your national identity only to have the rug pulled out from under that dream in the event. Lest anyone become too judgemental, it is worth a look back at the Suez crisis in 1956 under Anthony Eden, or the French withdrawal from Indochina. These events were very traumatic for both countries at the time if I understand correctly. Indeed, I have heard one of the conditions Roosevelt tried to negotiate with Churchill was the dissolution of the British colonial system, So those series of events were not exactly political one-off's. Timothy Snyder speaks of the German discovery of peaceful, prosperous coexistence as a concept the Germans embrace fully, (after badly losing two wars.) The next phase for Ukraine should look Ukrainian. The next phase for Russia will look and strange and uniquely "Russian".
YES INDIA, & TUNISIA, EGYPT, CHURCHHILL WAS VICTORIAN, 65YEARS OLD IN1940. A WORD SMITH ALSO
JOURNALIST SINCE 1915 AND SEA LORD. 1940 PM.
The French are beginning to lose Africa to the Russians.
A complicated name , but I want to remember this guest. A beautiful person!
Thank you, Jonathan.
A feeling as a victim is normal for us humans. But to kill thousands of others is completely sick.
And to form a "victimized ally" is absolutely insane.
Thank you, Jonathan and Viktoras Bachmetjevas, for this very insightful conversation.
🇺🇦 Перемоги і миру всім українцям! 🇺🇦
Thank you, Jonathan. Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
This is such an important point: living in Germany, I see how deep the real shame goes for past mistakes, in a very healthy way. The young don't feel it's their fault; they just don't want to make the same mistakes. Russians were never forced to learn from theirs, or even admit them.
Thank you for this program, very interesting. It was a great pleasure to listen you.
None of us makes a change away from evil without contrition IMHO
I think in mentioning "victimhood olympics," he was referring to the "oppression Olympics", which if I remember right, was first used by Jordan Peterson. In any case, the recognition that a given group (Nazis, Russian aggressors in Ukraine) seeks justification for exercising payback, and that this can be practically unlimited, is a very powerful point.
Bravo Jono
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This was wonderful! It's interesting to hear perspective of an east bloc expert who was only a child when his country self-liberated. All my east bloc friends, including a LI i knew in university, were born between late '60's and early '70's. One later '70's and she was the only naive one, though uneducated which is partly why.
This was by far the best speaker that you have had on your channel
thank you
"Putting ancestors on a 'pestical' [22.88 min.]" is a brilliant mispronunciation. Thank you.
Fascinating, thanks for posting!
Thanks Jonathan 😁. Hmmmm 🤔. The professional Sufferer pushing out the victim card 😊
Outstanding interview
The victimhood also makes Russia turning into a democracy unlikely. Because there's no accountability, there can be no sense of agency.
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Good. Thanks
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It would be so great if SC coukd do a whole segment on Surkov and his twisting of postmodern narratives to just exhaust everyone.
Consider this . After WW2 Soviet Union was never held accountable for crimes/genocide , in fact due to western ally reluctance to pursue this issue has de facto allowed present day Russia to superior morality . My view is Russian politics will never change , it had the opportunity but it did not , for one very good reason . Because of its vast natural resources it managed to "hijack " the wealth derived from its revenues and used it to buy western knowhow and consumer lifestyle
"Russians always measure themselves on a world stage." That sums up a very essential point.
When I heard that something from across the pond reverberated in my mind: "MAGA". It's terrifying.
There is lasring respect for a country whose actions are praiseworthy. But the respect for a country that acts brutally, that is a matter of treading lightly out of fear, and vanishes if the fear abates. But that is the only kind of respect Russia is associated with.
It could have had the other kind by building up a modern economy to rival (say) Germany during the past quarter century or more, but due to greed and corruption at the top, that never happened, so there is no opportunity for pride and recognition of success, and the whole world looks on with dismay at the persistent brutality and widespread poverty that never change, same as it showed during most of the last century, and seems is the only thing it knows how to do.
I suspect Gorbachev wanted respect based on success, not on the instilling of fear. But to the oligarchs, he was an impediment to their corruption, so they made sure his name is dragged through the mud.
Fifteen hours in and only 87 comments and 4.7k views. Is war fatigue or Springtime to blame here? Like always this is an excellent quality discussion and service Johnathan is providing. Propaganda and misinformation should be a required course in high school and collage level education.
Sunday is always quite flat, but also CZcams’s algorithm doesn’t help…
@@SiliconCurtain To remind viewers to like and subscribe may help. I'm just finishing reading a piece on how Chinese and Russian propaganda is discrediting democracy on social media in the latest issue of The Atlantic. Keep up the good work!
💛💙💜💙💛 listening uninterrupted 😊
🇺🇦 🌏 🇬🇧 🇺🇸
..and Thank for the stream Johnathan , the Team and company … 💙💛💙
“The postcard version…” lol
There is absolutely a (morale) duty, as a russian national, to not only distance yourself from what is done in your name, but to also be proactive about it, and to take part at your level to the process of undoing it. You can't be a russian and an "innocent bystander" to a crime commited in your name and from which you are expected to benefit. To a russian, indifference is guilt.
There is absolutely a (morale) duty, as an ukrainian national, to not only distance yourself from what is done in your name, but to also be proactive about it, and to take part at your level to the process of undoing it. You can't be an ukrainian and an "innocent bystander" to a crime commited in your name and from which you are expected to benefit. To an ukrainian, indifference is guilt.
@@ozymandias5130 Why would you want to distance yourself from people protecting your country? Also refering to self-defense as a "crime" may indicate you are suffering from some sort of brain damage.
@@ozymandias5130 Yes, though only after reasonably thorough attempts to investigate the facts of what _is_ (and what _is not_ ) done.
@@ozymandias5130 Nobody needs to justify defending itself from aggression. There is no equivalence at all between an aggressor and its victim.
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Tell me what "good" has ever come out of Russia...Russia has never played a leading roll in Humanitarian aid or advocacy...Russia has never played a leading role in environmental and ecological advocacy. Having spent a great deal of time in Russia, Russians in general do not understand nor have an interest in community at home nor abroad. There was an important comment in this discussion where Jonathans guest mentions that Russia's relationships are never born out of "good will". I can tell you that having spent over 40 years in former "Eastern Block" nations ( a great deal of that time in Russia) that this an astute observation. It's completely obvious why when the opportunity arose, former Warsaw "Pact" nations and the Baltics chose to get out from under Soviet "sphere of influence". It took a little longer for Ukrainians to exercise their agency and their wishes to distance themselves from Russian "influence"...and yes they a had a long road to meeting the EU's requirements for membership. But make no mistake Ukraine may have been and still so some degree still is corrupt democracy, but it was and is now a democracy. Ukrainians exercised their agency in 2004 and 2014 and was simply unacceptable for Putin...a democratic west moving Ukraine was the real existential threat to Putin and his Kremlin mob elite...Putin has always been afraid of a colour revolution in his own country and Ukrainians were showing Russians how to do it. Belarusians tried the same in 2020 but Putin wasn't about to allow another Maidan to happen and he and Lukashenko crushed it. I wonder how things would have gone if Ukraine could have joined the EU (not NATO) at the same time as former Warsaw Pact nations did in 2004 ..indeed How would Putin/Russia have reacted then. Nothing will change with Russia until Russia's/Russian's idea of themselves dies...just as what happened in post war Germany and Japan. Until then...(although my Czech family say it will never happen) is the rest of Europe and the "west" willing to let Ukraine slip away and lose they nation and their cultural identity...NATO was never a threat to Russian security or existence, but it certainly has been and clearly is a threat to Russian revanchism. Nobody know this better the Baltics and former Soviet oppressed nation of Central and Eastern Europe.
Very well said. Agree with every word. I'm lithuanian.
👍
I wonder if the russians that protested in ireland the other day are so cut from russia federation as he thinks
My oppinion on heavy casualties in war of ex Yugoslavia is that communists of Tito regije masacred between 300 ooo and half a million anticommunists. ( many of them were returned by english army from south Austria -- 99 % of them were masacred by communists). Nobody ever was convicted for these crimes. And this fact came into all extremists of ex YU. And than when civil war in ex YU started ---- they all think that if y are on the winning side -- y can make any crime- y will not be punished.
Britains military leadreship ( OF THE YEAR 1945) is partly responsable for war crimes in later civil wars in ex YU.
Exactly ! British but also US military personnel returned the anti communist to be butchered by Tito, but French military personnel didn -t collaborate, saying that it wasn t compatible with their code of honour.
Russia is feeling very sick and needs to be put into quarantine until they get better.
Appeasement was the main reason of WWII, and shall be again the main reason behind the WWIII. Tyrants are always cowards.
Isn't it only in a few of the democratic countries where the population distrusts "the other half"? In most countries there are a larger centre grouping and then maybe an extreme right and extreme left which are distrusted.
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Collective guilt has a place, in Germany WW2 is viewed by the current generation as a national shame, but they know they aren't guilty of crimes committed in the past. russians need to get to a point where they can speak of the horrors of the USSR, putin and his wars, and then the generations after can talk about it
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Russia does anything to win. But they are not alone.
A war criminal was arrested and died on jail in Latvia after being freed of Russia. Lithuania tried to put on jail a war criminal as well, but he fled to Israel and is well known that Israel protects any Jew that has committed crimes. His name was Salomon Morel. I know there were some other cases of war criminal fleeing to Israel , and Poland was denied the extradiction. Russia and Israel protected the communist war criminals that committed crimes in Baltic countries and Poland (Salomon Morel was also prosecuted by Poland, as he burned alive 600 German civilians, including children, in the infamous concentration camp of Lamsdorff in Silesia.
Answer to you lead is no, not a chance. Russia is going to repeat what happened after the Soviet Union broke up. A decade of misery for it's people followed by a new generation of Oligarchs.
33:48 All russian speakers being responsible for this war is equally absurd as all russian speakers being de facto russian citizens.
russia had a right to advocate for oppressed people of russian descent ( I believe there was none), members of the russian state have a responsibility to address the problem their state has caused. There is a small obligation of every citizen which is in the country. For the grandmother in Siberia this is very small. Everyone who promoted the war and took part this is large. The russian people who came to Ukraine and fought against russoan aggression deserve a share of the reparations.
I don't understand why Russians always get a free pass. The Germans didn't. They took collective responsibility for their actions as a nation even though it was a totalitarian dictatorship like the USSR.
Many Latvians were leftist and collaborated with Russian occupation. At least in Latvia, the feeling concerning the Russian guilt depends on which political views you have. I would say that right wing people have tendency to be more patriotic and thus more conscious about Russian guilt and leftist wing people are more internationalist and tend to be more comprehensive with Russian occupants.
I don’t know ow if I buy this. Many people I think k ew they were under occupation but just tried to live the best they could.
@@SiliconCurtain The deportees coming back from Siberia in the 50s as well as the Latvian Legion veterans were heavily discriminated against, a kind of second class citizens. I ´m 55 years old and among people of my age, many ethnic Latvians were soviet supporters but at the same time they didn ´t like Russian speaking community, as the cultural distance was wide. And last but not least, there was a 15% of inter-ethnic marriage between both communities. The relations between both communities have worsened quite a bit since 2014.
In tiny Latvia, 60.000 Latvians were deported to Siberia (most of them never came back) and 250.000 fled the Russian invasion (mostly to Canada, USA and Australia), thus the most politically conscious part of society was eliminated; thousands of Latvians collaborated with the deportations and the occupants, almost always to take advantage of the situation and occupy the houses and steal the furniture and clothes of the deported. A part of Latvian society collaborated with the occupation, not to survive but to take advantage (it happened in Belgium and Holland as well under German occupation, they denounced the Jews just to steal their properties, I know personally cases of Jews from Antwerpen that suffered that fate).
@@SiliconCurtain I ´m reading “Children of Siberia”, a 3.000 pages book in 2 volumes, about memories of Latvians that survived the deportation to Siberia (5.000 children died there). Many of them are giving a quiet harsh testimony about how unwelcomed there were when they came back to Latvia in the 50s; they were discriminated against not only by Russian occupants, but by ethnic Latvian compatriots.
In spite of the fact that Russian speaking population treated the ethnic Latvians in a dismissive, arrogant and colonial way , as they were the bosses there. It happened in Central Asian republics as well…
And Khrushchev was even worse than Stalin, he fired the Latvian PM Berklavs and all the Latvian “national communist” from the Party and opened the gates for Russian mass immigration that transformed forever the Latvian society and put Russians in the command positions. At least the communist regime of Peteris Stucka in 1919 was quiet patriotic as well; even Lenin respected Latvian identity, but Kruschev or Brezhnev were worse in that sense than Lenin and Stalin.
This underscores why Russia is, as a nation, already sliding into the dustbin of history.
There is no Russia as a nation but dozens of nations subjugated by Muscovy.
@@donotmisleadmaybe the rest of the world will learn from the first two times they tried to keep a Russian empire together and this time just let things play out.
The first four times, starting from 1867.
@@donotmislead oh hell that's right I forgot about those ones too 😅
Nato didn't exist during the tsar and soviet period and yet.....
NATO was founded in 1949.
@@elisabethnygaard8525 Was there any nato members near ussr when they invaded poland ? Or when they've attacked basically everyone around them during consolidation before and after ww2? That's what I've meant...and it was obvious.
Who knew wokism and Russia operated on the same social currency?
They both operate on a different level than basic ethics, although of course in very different ways and for very different reasons.
It’s a classic attribute of reactionary politics, “they are the true victims”, nazis too portrayed themselves as victims, victims of “betrayal by internal enemies”, victims of constraint by other imperial powers not allowing them to “expand their lebensraum”, victims of “being softened by the liberal values”, etc.
Except for Jesus Christ, VB, Who never did anything wrong.
ruZZia will become the new Flinstone republic!
Often I hear remarks about "it's 21st century" and I fail to understand what people are really trying to say by that. Personally, I do not see how it is meaningfull.