The Great Maxout Debate of 2014
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- čas přidán 15. 07. 2024
- How hard is it for a random person to get a maxout in Classic Tetris for the first time? Is there an intrinsic level of talent a person needs to achieve the maxout, or is it just a matter of time spent? And how might we entice people to spend all that time? These (and more) are the topics of this debate which happened at the after-party for CTWC 2014 in my kitchen. This is a bonus feature for Best of Five, but I'm posting it here in its entirety because I think the community will find it interesting to compare and contrast the opinions of maxout players in 2014 versus today in 2024.
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Featuring: Adam Cornelius, Terry Purcell, Bo Steil, Ben Mullen, Alex Kerr, and Vince Clemente.
Camera by Louis Holland. Sound recording and edit by Chris Higgins. - Krátké a kreslené filmy
update: I still have not rewatched all the matches, lol
We can all just hop in Google Hangouts...oh wait...
Adam pretty accurately represents the viewpoint I would've had shortly after starting to play in early 2018. There were still only ~25 maxout players at the time, and I was pretty sure my odds of ever getting a max were low, because that meant I'd become one of the best players in the world by the standards of the day. 5 years later I eventually did max, although between the time I spent recovering from a hand injury and taking extended breaks from playing, it was probably 2.5-3 years of consistent playing time to get it. From my perspective nowadays I took a very long time to max, but it sounds like in 2014, that would've been considered average or even fast, give how Adam sets the tone of the debate with a 10 year timeline.
I think one of the biggest factors is probably age. Similar to how kids can learn languages easily but adults have it much harder, it seems that teens have a massive advantage at the game and not just with how much free time they have. So from the perspective of the scene now, I would guess that with the million dollar 10 year offer, 99% of able bodied teens could do it, 95% of people in their 20s, and a slow gradation up the age range from there with it dipping below 50% once you get up to the 40-50s range. 10 years is enough time to train as much as you would ever need to the point where you either can do it or you can't. It'd be interesting to poll maxout players in different age ranges and see what their answers are. I've heard teens in the scene very confidently say that maxing out is easy and just about anyone can do it. Likely due to when I got my max, I feel like maxing is doable for most people but pretty hard, and some people probably could not get it no matter how hard they try.
I maxed in just over a year, but I was a very young hypertapper.
i definitely agree with the idea that motivation definitely is the primary driving factor. before picking up rolling, i was a keyboard tapper and had an 800k, but i ended up dropping nes tetris before maxing out because of consistency issues and just general frustration with grinding.
i wasn't until genesis x was announced and i saw they had tetris that really drove me to begin grinding nes tetris again, let alone with a new playstyle, that gave me the motivation to actually grind the game for a maxout that i got 4 months after starting rolling (but really in like a month total of active play)
It is almost like saying that given enough training 10% could be Ford (Ford showed talent for engineering as a kid, none of his siblings had it), or 10% could score double on the IQ test given enough time. When talking about world class talent, then it is about 90% born with 10% trained.
Nice job Chris, I love those bonuses ❤
Funny how, even as a das player, I'd now bet 85-90% of people chosen at random (let's say in an age range of 5 to 75) would get a max in 10 years with such an incentive, given that none of them die 😅 that's including people with disabilities, and people too rich to care at some point xD
If we only took people with no physical disabilities (considering the eyes, hands etc) and no immense wealth, I'd bet we'd get pretty close to 100%. I mean a million dollars is such a big incentive, and 'just' a max in 10 years isn't that hard in retrospect, even with das.
Awesome piece of history here, thanks for sharing chris!
My level 18 start PB is 539K+, while my level 19 start PB is just over 90K... so even at my best I am nowhere near a max out. I think cracking level 19 is the key to a max out... not just tactics, but you need a very fast mind and fingers!
To this day how many players got a DAS maxout?
The CTM Maxout List tracker shows 272 people with maxout using DAS playstyle. This includes players on emulator but doesn't include tap/roll players who later achieved DAS maxout.
I was just looking this up to post this! It's also noteworthy that there are 300 tap maxouts, 43 hybrids, 9 butterflies (keyboard?), and 40 rolling. I'm not sure if that's really up-to-date, but it seems to be close enough for our purposes. I am guessing that most people start with either DAS or tapping and THEN move on to rolling these days.
@@chrishigginsfilms it makes sense. Even Andy was originally DAS, as the Maxout List reminds us.
@@chrishigginsfilms though possible I guess, I would be amazed if there are only 40 maxouts achieved with rolling. I swear there were that many rollers at the last CTWC alone who were maxout players. A lot of those spreadsheets seem to lag behind a little as well. It took ages for Alex's highly significant 16mil score to be added.
@@lostinlunacy_ Like Justin Chen points out, that spreadsheet just tracks the playstyle used for their first max, and doesn't count people who learn a different playstyle afterwards. Surely there would be over 100 roll maxouts if that was accounted for.