Why TopV Doesn't Build Velocity with Long Toss, Weighted Balls, & Arm Speed Training?
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- čas přidán 16. 11. 2020
- ❌www.topvelocity.net
In this video, I go over the most common question we get here at TopVelocity and the science behind our answer.
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As far as coaches go, you’re alone on an island with your approach. As a physical therapist, researcher and teacher of motor learning/control...it makers sense to me. The lower half is the low hanging fruit for me (ie faster gains with reduced throwing volume). Keep preaching and I hope more people visit your island.
I recommend doing it all in moderation. I do Olympic lifting and med tosses. I also do plyo balls and long toss (not extreme). My Velo is going up and I have no arm pain.
Really appreciate you taking the time to put this long and valuable content out for public consumption. You mentioned citations/links to studies are on your social media- can you clarify where to find some of these? Thanks again!!
You can search my Instagram here instagram.com/topvelocity or pause the video and put the titles in Google scholar.
So good video. For those who are eager to throw solid steel balls: There is a reason why the Olympic Shot put has a different technique than baseball pitching. You need different movements for different weights - pitching weighted balls without proper mechanics is asking for trouble. It will find a weakness in your technique and punish you with trauma. From my experience, damaged areas become tight to prevent further injury and this will lead to bad mobility so bad habits in technique will start to develop - because you are avoiding the damaged areas. Once you have proper mechanics you don't need weighted balls - they don't help to develop the arm's explosive strength. They are just not heavy enough - 1000 reps with 300 grams won't develop your explosiveness , only arm stress and endurance. Look at javelin throwers they throw 75 - 98 meters, 800 gr javelins - they want the same thing: to reduce stress from hand and to get max from the whole kinetic chain. The ball must weigh enough to support a healthy arm path and to fight air resistance in flight. You can throw weighted balls for fun to feel power - if you want, but the theme of this video is - does it help to build velo as regular exercise? IMO, simple actions like sledgehammering tire, rope climbing, heavy lifting, MedBalls throwing- they will develop your tendons and strength better than stressing arm with weighted balls. As for anecdotal evidence of successful athletes First - some individuals have so good tendons and mechanics that they are capable to throw heavy weighted balls without injury but these are developed because of other exercises and genes, not only heavy ball throwing. And second, I think, many top athletes can't articulate or consciously perceive reasons for their success - they just name something that they like. The only thing with weighted balls or javelins I really like is that it's easier to feel them because of inertia and, therefore, easier to feel when I fight against the ball's initial direction while throwing. Hey, that's all! xD
Yes I'm sure pro athletes don't understand what training methods they use are actually doing....
@@jibbo123 Nah...Definitely not all of them, and not always but I think this video is exactly about that kind of situation. Some think long toss is very good for pitching but it's kinda not by statistics. I didn't write this scientific paper tho. I like to long toss just because. I mean many pros can be good at coaching but not all of them. Being a good coach and "understand what training methods... are actually doing" is one thing - and throwing hard, being pro with top results is another. They can require different sets of skills. I have met a lot of ppl who are better than me but their instructions were unclear ))). When you train from a young age basics become so obvious - so it can be hard to put yourself into the position of an inexperienced person, you need to be a coach for that. If you exaggerate it's like asking a tiger why he's agile and deadly. It becomes second nature. As for making up stuff - do you ever met a guy who becomes really good and immediately started telling complicated and beautiful reasons why he is such and so - but you are absolutely sure that the reasons are much simpler - he is just having a good time and is full of himself? I thought it's a pretty common thing. Or it can be a simple misattribution... a mistake. And some pros, you know, they just blowout their arms. I'm sure they knew what they were actually doing...
Please Guys Long Toss did absolutely Nothing For Me and Weighted Ball. I was pitching Mid 60s at 14 and After doing Long Toss for a year every day I actually Lost 1 or 2mph. Once I started working Out I started pitching around 70 though. My shoulder Hurt really bad though from doing long toss and weighted ball and that's all I got From It. Idk Where This Video was......
Dog if you were long tossing every day no shit your shoulder was hurting
I can’t even begin to understand why this information isn’t printed in mass to little leagues and high schools.
because it is false
6'2 220 pound man... have a head start over a 5'10 180 pound man on throwing harder just based on accessing their size ?
I've figured Out Size, Strength, And Flexibility Are the most Important factors. Your Bigger So You probably have more muscle and Size than Me (5'7) (150ib) so you will probably Naturally throw faster than me With Proper Mechanics
Hey how’s it going first off I just wanna say I love what y’all do at topvelocity and in no means am I trying to be rude, but I just have a question. So I know that you don’t think highly about long toss or plyo balls/weighted baseballs etc, but than I ask what about Jaeger program and Driveline? Do you totally disagree with everything they do? Do you not like them at all? Just wanted to pick your brain. Thank you.
I only follow science not other theories.
How u do u increase ur velocity aa third baseman
Both Cy Young winners (Trevor Bauer/Shane Bieber) use weighted balls as part of their throwing program.
That’s a great example of anecdotal evidence.
@@brentpourciau It certainly is but I do want to ask you if you think they would be using weighted balls if it supposedly destroys their arm. Bauer has never had an arm injury to date and he is known for his extreme long toss and weighted ball routines. Many mlb teams have implemented weighted ball programs for their pitchers. Im not denying what you are saying, im just playing devils advocate.
That’s fine but none of the studies are saying 100% are getting seriously injured. For example the Reinold study found around 30% had to have surgery and 15% didn’t make any gains at all. The problem is I don’t think these pitchers you named used weighted baseballs to throw harder. They already threw hard without them which is why you need to stop using anecdotal evidence. This would be like saying these two MLB pitchers due hand stands everyday therefore ever pitcher should do the same if they want to play in the MLB.
@@brentpourciau considering Bauer was sitting 92mph, and now can hit 98.... um that’s wrong.
@@brentpourciau Well there have been numerous studies that show weighted baseballs can be beneficial when used correctly. And its not so much as velocity improvement that weighted balls are used for. They are primarily used for arm care and strengthening the arm. Velocity is a by-product.
Is the trevor bauer lawsuit still going on?
yeah he lost, which is his third lawsuit he’s lost including others for defamation
Great Video !!! The Take Away " Anecdotal Evidence = Bro Science "
A+ info.
Who here long tosses I just wanna know
I do but only to mound distance cause you can just throw with same intent as u would for long distance
I don’t go to where I have to arch it I go out as far as I can throw on a line
The people here don’t throw 95mph 😂
@@joeswanston1977 I agree, I think, when done right, long toss is a great way to add velocity
Absolute bogus. “Is trying to throw 300 feet on a line different than throwing 90 off a mound? No”. Long toss teaches you how to THROW, you should do a combination of both. But you put someone on the mound everyone knows the slope adds stress on the arm, if the athlete isn’t prepared AND HAS BEEN TRAINING AT OR HIGHER stresses on the arm before the mound they are subjected to injury, why do you think most injuries happen at the beginning of the season. Because people go from throwing med balls to throwing a baseball 95mph off the mound.
Addressing weighted balls, they aren’t meant to be thrown in catch play. This is so stupid you’d suggest they would injure you, yeah if you’re full on throwing one without having used one you’re in trouble. “We warm up full body not just the arm” 😂😂🤦♂️ everyone should do full body, but warming up your hips isn’t going to warm up and prepare your shoulder to decelerate your arm at 90+ MPH.
Ok ok, you don’t believe a random comment on weighted balls.... hmm maybe just ask 2020 CY young award winner Trevor Bauer if he think warming up his hips is going to prepare his arm enough to throw in a game. 😂😂😂
This guy is spewing none sense to sell his courses. Quit being selfish, good education gives athletes the power of having all around knowledge and figuring out what works for them, there is NO one program that will show them success.
Long toss and Weighted Ball Gave Me 0 velocity Gains and actually debilitated me for 2 months, It's some other factor That makes them throw harder, Arm speed doesn't mater.
Connor Betancourt I’m willing to bet money on the fact that you went into weighted balls and long toss without knowing what you were doing and got yourself hurt