This Rifle Fires Plastic Ammo; The US Army Almost Adopted it.
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- čas přidán 23. 03. 2024
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The US military almost adopted this very unique polymer cased ammo firing rifle. Today we take a deep dive into this very fascinating rifle.
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Hi mike
yessir
Peepee caca poopoo
Anything on PA? But mah beowulf
No thanks
My body is already filled with micro plastics this ammo will do nothing but make me stronger
😂
😂😂😂
Hey look at the positive side of things. Recycling
Mico vs macro
Downside, faulty 3D printed ammunition.
Potato suppressor? Military bullpup? Plastic ammo? Both open and closed bolt function? Short recoil operated? *Forgotten Weapons heavy breathing intensifies*
Its not French
Good weapon? Bullpup? Loses....
I thought for sure we’d see this on Forgotten Weapons first.
Modern FG42 💀
FG-FortyTomorrow
“Without further ado let’s get into it”
- goes straight into further ado.
Can't blame him. Ado is amazing.
Just like the classic, “I got nothing else for you guys”
“Alright I got one more thing for you guys”
average youtuber
@@KorporalNoobs true
The recoil on this looks waaaay more manageable than the sig
Yeah but they didn't pay the right people off so we get the turd from SIG.
Taking in consideration that full auto on the spear sucks on brass ammo not the 80k psi hybrid case that eats the rifle up
That’s because the SIG is overpriced garbage.
The sig is just a sh**y overly heavy AR-10 that the reduced fitness standards soldiers of the future will NOT enjoy dragging around
@@sheikbombalot5781 The new adoption of SIG rifles over the AR is going to go down in history as one of the worst military logistic decisions in US history.
Future VA: "Your microplastic poisoning was not service related"
😂 This
Deserves more upvotes
Sounds about right
'zactly what went through my mind, too.
😂😂😂😂
This gun is extremely illegal in Canada...due to the single use plastic.
Lmao
#savetheturtles
And California lol
lmao. it prob could be reloaded on a bench but likely much less trustworthy than brass. i'ma look into this, was debating doing plastic carts for a black powder replica.
Same in South Canada (aka. New York).
You brought up the Battle of Wanat, and it doesn't get talked about enough IMO- calling that a base is being extremely generous, it was a COP made up of Hesco barriers and Conex trailers, in a remote valley. The whole situation was really messed up, you can find the 'historical' after action report online. My friend from High School, Jon Ayers, was one of the soldiers who died in that battle- he manned a 240 until the barrel melted and then fought with his M4 before being killed. He was a great guy, funny AF, used to drive me home from JRTOC Drill Team practice. It was a 4-hour battle where they fended off an overwhelming group of insurgents firing RPGs and gunfire in almost all directions. RIP to the soldiers that died that day.
Sounds like a nightmare. Thats when your spiritual fitness needs to match your fighting skills.
Sorry about your friend, man.
Did he go to AIT advanced individual training in 2001
That .277 temporary wound channel was ridiculous. I was surprised how big of a difference it was from .308
Army : We want new weapon
Company : Here's a new rifle
Army : Is it like the old rifle?
Company : not really, it is new
Army : don't want it
Exactly. The army asked for new & revolutionary and then balked when it was delivered.
@@jeffsiewert1258 give me something new as long as it looks and works like what we already have lol. innovate as much as you can but not too much.
Came here to say the exact same thing. The worst part of the NGSW Program is seeing all the better weapons that got turned down in favor of the Sig.
Sig: here is some money general.
When you put it that way..... stupid. This thing rocks and should have been given more consideration.
I love that you guys brought on an expert to explain the weapon system, only let him talk for like 15 seconds, and then you were like “alright now get off my show, nerd.”
My thoughts exactly 😂
😂
Then proceeded to shit on the trigger and other stuff in front of him lol
less like an just an expert and closer to a company sales tech. They know their shit well but godamn you know they'll exaggerate or try to shill their stuff hard
Like that polymer ammo which doesn't have any amazing rep
@CryoFreezr I worked with Dave when this was still under development at GD... believe me he is a lot more than a sales rep. He probably knows more about this platform than anyone in the world.
I like the idea of polymer casing - not only because of the weight-saving aspect, but also because in times of major war, metal often becomes extremely scarce and very expensive. Being able to injection mould polymer casings (or however the casings are made) means you can keep up with supply demands AND use a novel material that isn't metal. I hope those polymer casings become widespread and start getting adopted into all kinds of weapons platforms.
PS: I thought you guys said you were going to test the rounds against a ballistic dummy? Did you forget or change your minds about that?
Poly rounds are how you make sure the civilian market cannot be self supporting with reloads and so rapidly becomes utterly dependent on the 'good will' of the benevolent despot for their right to bear arms.
No. Thank. You.
Reality Check: If the loss of USD GRC status, combined with 'new and better' delivery methods (60mph BRI, straight line, vs. 20 knot box ship, around the continent) and this country's bad habit of a trillion in debt, every hundred days, is added to kicking our primary debt holders in the balls with sanctions, embargoes and company evacuations.
We could see them respond in ways that make the Great Depression look like a bad weekend in Vegas.
You know, that time back when you were young and dumb and freshly armed with a couple hundred in tax rebate so you immediately lost your shirt at a casino and then maxed your CC, trying to get it all back? Yeah, last spring.
When you had to beg friends and relatives for food on the weekends.
But at least you were smart and made your mortgage and utility payments before stepping on that plane so you were basically good to go until next paycheck.
If we hit rock bottom and this country goes full civil war as the lights go dark and the food delivery becomes iffy, with no secure borders 'And then the terrorism starts', things will get real ugly, real fast.
The difference between 2-4MOA and the 1-2MOA will be covered by tactics (drones) and total rounds downrange (mortars and grenades and drones of our own, as preemption).
The logistics of which is basically about how far from a vehicle you are.
I would be far more interested, if we were seeing new body armor concepts and/or genuine exos that could offload some of the weight from same. 1-2MOA is a face shot from every round if you've got a decent optic on a DMR heavy barrel weapon.
As is, the lethality side of things is just going towards extreme silly, and will not prove decisive, in urban terrain, whether our next war is in Ukraine or Utah.
Everyone knows this, and sees the losses in infantry forces when you are fighting someone who knows how, in the Donbas, and nobody wants to admit it.
I'm glad that we're making the caliber change. That was a long time coming. But now we need to get mobility off it's crippled knees. And start talking about an ability to take that face-shot with some kind of suspended plexi armor above a big cuirass.
If the vee-attachment doesn't buckle, there is no trauma to the skull or neck. And now you are basically down to using a rifle as a laser-dot weapon off a thermal sight with an HMD monocle. i.e. A suppression device while you assault.
THAT is the kind of gear which would allow a modern soldier to literally run and gun. Which is what modern combat is devolving towards as you have a choice between maybe stepping on a mine vs. definitely being hit by airburst CFF or some idiot teenager with a radio control kamikaze quadcopter that Alibaba just delivered to him, yesterday. All while you are trying to roll up a static defense line which is full of hard cover (trench line or building corner).
We are not fighting 2D wars of marksmanship as fires dominance anymore. If you don't FIRE AND MOVE, in small maneuver groups, you will all get TAB'd out by someone 2-10km away. And the cost of your extinction and the 3 guys next to you will be about 1,500 dollars. Which, given it takes 40,000 dollars per infantryman, is one excruciating LER.
We either shift to robotic UGV with AI autonomy. Or we trade up to powered exo suits.
It's that simple.
Casualty rates in a population where only 30-40% of young people are mentally (37 million people, 20% of the population which forms it's primary combat arms racial group, and _50%_ of young folk, are *prescribed* some form of SSRI or other anti-depressant) or physically (77% of America's youth are overweight or lacking in stamina and muscle mass sufficient to undertake serious athletic activities associated with close combat) equipped to fight will not allow for anything else.
The next war is going to be the US trying to get oil to make the plastic for their plastic ammo that they need to fight the war
@@xyz-hj6ul You can self make plastic injection (modellers had done it for decades). You can't form brass by yourself.
@@neutronalchemist3241
Uh not so much, actually.
Polystyrene is a genuine plastic and, depending on the scale of the kit and the size of the replicated object, designing a steel tool for one is 10,000-100,000 dollars per sprue, with the injection machine and nitrogen running another couple hundred grand, in an industrial format.
The resulting case will also have a very low melt temp of ~150`F.
Fire your plastic airplane casing through a chamber with ~50,000psi operating pressures and you will get some firey bits coming out the muzzle and an incredible stink, after which you will need to clean and possibly rechrome your barrel.
Polymer rounds are actually a polyaliphatic (sp.) or aromatic polycarbonate material, depending on the brand. And so behave more like a resin than a plastic.
As such, their casing is very hard but also relatively brittle and, importantly, rapidly carbonizes on the inside to become more so. To the point they are not safe to reload.
That said, they also share some of the properties of a ceramic, including high heat absorption in the 250-400`F range. So, the first time you fire them they won't goo your chamber, barrel and gas system.
While I don't know for sure that you cannot injection mold a poly cartridge casing on the same injector platform as you do polystyrene (can't afford either), I can almost guarantee it's going to cost a lot more in materials as a single sheet of 1/4", 1 square foot, polycarbonate, like a lexan, is 10-15 bucks. You're only going to be able to extrude about five rounds from that.
Back in the day, when my dad and I used to handload, you could go down to the range or a surplus shop and buy a bag of range brass for about 20 bucks for 100 rounds.
Not every one of which was reusable.
Today, clean brass is about 40-70 bucks, caliber dependent, for fifty rounds. You still have to buy the powder, primers, bullets and a press, but if you're only doing it for friends or own-use, and not for profit, it's still quite a bit cheaper, depending on how hot you load and how religiously you police up your spents.
A box of True Performance 5.56 polymer is about 25 bucks, pre shipping, and that's only 20 rounds. It also specifically states 'Not compatible with reloading' on the website.
So, no thanks.
You can stockpile enough brass to reload for a lifetime on a single year's shooting budget.
If you're fighting the zombie hordes beating on your door because your house is the only one on any block with the generator electricity for lights and the smell of cooking food, a thousand rounds should be more than sufficient.
If you are fighting the shambolic government, come to take away your means of killing said hordes which economic collapse by said government created, no amount of personal logistics investment will save you from their superior everything.
Speaking of which, that is the real advantage of poly rounds. They are a LOT lighter to deploy half-way around the world with, in terms of ton:mile costs.
If you're a prepper, not infantry, don't pretend to be needing armed forces level resupply. If you can't BOB it with you when everything goes to hell and gasoline is a hundred dollars a gallon as access to all major highways are closed down; having lots of ammo simply doesn't matter. You're on someone's naughty list and you will get The Visit, when things get bad.
So activate your flight plan and get to your OGL.
If you're an engineer or a scientist, things will only be bad for a couple to six months and after everyone is done starving or eating each other, The New Authority will be urgently looking for people with your kind of skills.
Forgot: That they don't have a dummy to shoot/To shoot the dummy/To edit the footage of shooting the dummy into the vid
That gun is a work of thoughtful engineering...beautiful. Too advanced for the military.
Thx for the demo.
imagine every marine carrying one of these mfs instead of the IAR lmao that would be terrifying
The microplastics add +4 poison damage.
also a war crime i think if the actual projectile is plastic. for the same reason as non detectable fragments in mines and grenades isnt allowed.
@@ThirtytwoJno, its just a joke, only the case is plastic, projectile itself is conventional ball, that's why everyone calls it "plastic" ammo
+4 poison damage to user
@@Juozapas001 what i figured but have seen rubber and plastic tips, so isnt impossible
Using microplastic ammo unlocks the achievement "How Dare You!!"
“The trigger is the worst trigger I’ve ever pulled, and yet I love this gun.”
Basically the takeaway, and that says a lot.
Yeah with that trigger alone I can see why it didn't win (also charging handle in the way of the tape switch wire is also a bad design). However I definitely would pick this over the spear if I had the chance just from that wound cavity. That was really surprising.
I believe the main reason it didn't win is because it didn't provide a belt fed LMG. It went with the Marine way of SAWs where everyone can be a machine gunner.😂
Another is, it's a bullpup with multiple innovative changes and the Army don't like change.
Plus the bribery with Sig.
@@dohabandit All the default triggers usually suck on Bullpups. That's what the later iterations and aftermarket triggers are for.
@@dohabandit *Tavor and Desert Tech enters the chat* those triggers are as good as they gonna get on a bullpup, and that's saying a lot
Upgrade to TavD from Shooting Sight, better than most AR triggers
This is only the beginning.
Nice to see you!
❤
So...when can I buy one?
let’s go
Great rifle really. I live in France so having this type of weapon is a big no no, but I sincerely hope you’ll do replicas or even, let’s dream, have it integrated into Escape from Tarkov
yeah baby ❤
I liked this rifle back when it was in the competition, I knew it wouldn't win but I still liked it. Now I like it more.
That .277 has a very peculiar sound. Unique.
agreed
Reminiscent of the Halo 4 MA5D Assault Rifle sound.
It sounds like a Maxim, very similar cyclic rate and report.
@@WetWiIIyI want to make fun of that take but it's straight up true.
Reminds me of the .270 britsh ammo for an particular bullpup
I really want a Forgotten Weapons style video in this that goes into the gas/recoil operation and the open/closed bolt mechanism.
💯
I don't even like like guns, but I can watch gun Jesus for hours 😅
@@M1tjakaramazov How could you not like guns?
The FG-42 uses the same mechanism, just lacking the gas system. It fires from the open bolt position in full auto and fires from the close bolt in semiautomatic, and has the same type of trigger mechanism that automatically switches the bolt position after the first shot once you've selected which fire mode you want to use.
@@HomicideJack187The FG42 is an absolute masterpiece. I wish we'd have a modern day version of it
It's a goddamned shame the Army didn't, because this was the ONLY ENTRY THAT PROVIDED FUCKING ADVANCEMENT IN FIREARMS TECHNOLOGY
FUCK
Guarantee that someone bribed their way to winning that contract.
It's alg man, it'll make the rifle cooler and worth more for us who are gonna buy it once it hits the civilian market. This is honestly one of my dream rifles. I love Bullpups and buying U.S brand firearms, so this is absolutely perfect for me.
Yeah it also sucked ass. I was part of the testing for three NGSW rifles and MGs. There were so many issues with the GD entries, not the least of which was with ammo unreliability.
Exactly, not just evolutionary, it's basically revolutionary given the increase in kinetics and stability. Nothing else comes close.
Looks like we gonna have to wait decades to adopt plastic ammo or some other country will.
14:00 That trigger and slight charging handle moving forward tells me, this thing has an FG42 style of trigger-striker mechanism to it. That's how you can operate from closed and open bolt, and it's also why even on closed bolt, the trigger is very much a machine gun trigger (creepy, heavy, large sear engagement).
Essentially, the bolt carrier is also the linear hammer, and the cam lugs on the bolt carrier has a very long underlug (stroke of travel reearwards before the bolt is unlocked, or stroke of travel forwards after the bolt is locked). When the bolt carrier bottoms out forward, it strikes the firing pin, and that's how the bolt carrier works as the linear hammer.
That's probably one of the coolest new guns I've seen in a long time. I hope they keep working to perfect the gun and maybe eventually make a semi-auto version for dirty civilians like me.
Also, fun fact: DICE added the RM277 to Battlefield 2042 but they changed the name to the RM68. Yeah they just took the .277 caliber, converted it to millimeters, and made that the "legally distinct name" for it. It seems like they did a pretty damn good job with it though. It's at least more authentic than anything you'd find in any recent Call of Duty games.
The name of the cartridge is 6.8 TVC.
Ya it’s got crazy damage in BF
Call of dookie made it a recoiling mess
They announced they plan on releasing a civilian version called the ‘Genesis’
Funnily enough that gun is also in 2022’s modern warfare 2
This gun has one of the most badass reports I've heard when he's shooting bursts of full auto. Just beautiful
Sounds like a heavy machine gun.
“Hell yeah” the men all said in unison
@Nejourney78 absolutely! Almost like the m60
Am I on crack or does it not sound like the AR from halo?
@@ericfrancaturner8525that’s the first thing I heard
This has got to be one of your best intros yet, the 2-stage ejection, the reciprocating barrel had me gaping, never mind the shooting exercise... good stuff
The German FG42 featured a similar open/closed bolt function, though it was linked to whether the gun was firing in semi or full auto, as the Luftwaffe specifications required a weapon capable of accurate single shots with a closed bolt, but fully automatic with an open bolt to facilitate cooling. Quite ingenious.
Garand Thumb: I need a weapon
*Halo theme plays*
Wonder if Garand Thumb will do a video on the "somebody gunsmithed a Halo shotgun complete with top-loading the shells into the mag tube" thing that Forgotten Weapons recently did a video on.
That way we get an actual, practical answer to "Why don't we see more top loading shotguns?"
@@44R0Ndin I already know the answer…we don’t have any Spartans to use them 😂
I don’t keep it loaded, son
@@Caoimhin777
Fair enough, there's work to be done then.
@@Grunttamer He’ll have to find ammo as he goes
Running this at my local airsoft field
😂😂😂
😂
I know this is a joke, but it made me sad lol
"Hey! Call your hits!"
hey. no full auto..
What this really feels like is the ultra-modern answer to the same question that was answered with the FG-42 way back in the day.
Idk, FG-42 with 8mm Mauser was crazy on the recoil.
@@Edo_Ginting Not according to the people who've shot one...
@@johndaniels1197 Really? Christ, Since the M60, which uses similar stuff to the FG-42 had a strong recoil. So I thought it would be somewhat similar. Some great engineering by the Germans if the could make a full auto 8mm Mauser with no recoil!
@@Edo_Ginting Go watch the Forgotten Weapons videos that Ian did about the FG42. Not only is the recoil shockingly light and smooth, it's apparently also manageable in that it doesn't push the gun around in weird undesirable directions.
One of the things I really like about this Bullpup rifle is that the handguard is 2x as long as on other bulllpups. I've been testing out the Hellion to see if I want to buy it and the difficult thing for me is how short it is compared to even a 10.5" AR. My hand just wants to move further forward. Even the 18-20" Hellions have the same, short handguard as the 16".
The .277 in the clear gel blew my mind
That really was pretty insane!!! 😀
fr that was crazy powerful
Most 277 calibers are devastating with the right load.
@@Justin_Cp3Even smaller ones like 6.8 SPC do a number on tissue. Hog hunters in Texas swear by them.
@@Clean97gti Just built a 6.8 SPC, gonna make a great hunting rifle
The option to fire from both open and closed bolt is very reminiscent of the FG-42.
The US Army almost adopted a bullpup that can fire in open and closed bolts, Israel is falling, zoomers are making Painter edits on tik tok.... Yeah Im thinking we're back
And the Johnson LMG Eugene Stoner “borrowed”
FG-42 - a gun that outaged its era
Also my ww2 beloved
Yes, this rifle has a lot of potential. Although the NGSW proposal put an emphasis on low recoil, low ammo weight and volume of fire, in the end, the Army chose the option that was the worst in all those categories. General Dynamics would have been better off just making a version of the Australian/Aug bullpup rifle, but that is not what they were asked to to.
basically a modern fg42
I must say, this rifle does have great aesthetics!! Loved the intro and the patch. Wishing you all the best from Canada.
Im really looking forward to a semi-auto version of this, been lookin into bullpups and I have been really excited for this one.
i dont think anyone was expecting that insane damage on the ballistics gel
it just sliced through it like butter, jesus.
I was blown away. Wow
It's got the ballistics of a .270win, and people drop 1000lb elk (bull elk are notoriously hard to take down) with 1-2 shots with a .270 running the right pills. The terminal performance makes sense, the crazy part is you're getting that out of a short overall rifle that has about the same recoil as an intermediate round... That's a game changer and is what the Spear SHOULD have been... Probably the same ballistics, maybe a bit better with the .277 fury, but you've got the M14 problem all over again. Hence why this didn't get adopted, lol. God forbid we actually move forward in the military!
He did say it was more powerful than a .308
@@mfallen6894 Could you clarify what you mean by "you've got the M14 problem all over again" when it comes to the RM277? Thanks
I love the look of it. It fixes everything I wanted from a bullpup. An actual handguard, rail space, no goofy high risers/carry handles. I want one so bad now
Agreed. Literally the ergonomically perfect bullpup.
@@mig1ncso we can't have it.🙄😑
agreed, hopefully they make it for us civilians despite it being designed for military
@@fumes1955 hopefully they fix the trigger before then
@@fumes1955It’s supposed to be being mass released to the civilian market under the name Genesis, due to the fact it didn’t get a military contract, and True Velocity needs a return on that development investment.
Remember Future Weapons that came out in the 00s? This channel is the new Future Weapons
this is legitimately one of the coolest rifles ive ever seen. i almost feel like they should have adopted this as the main infantry rifle. the SPEAR is still dope af and looks like an excellent battle rifle/DMR weapon for squad leaders and marksmen. Theres also the SIG machine gun in 6.8 that was so dope. this thing just rocks so much, like it blows the M27 IAR out of the water. Imagine a platoon of Marines with these beasts. So fucking violent
The low recoil was astonishing.
Suppressors have the same effect on recoil as muzzle brakes do.
@@boygonewhoopdataZZhow...does that work?
@@boygonewhoopdataZZ Not really. Suppressors help with recoil by adding weight to the end of the barrel.
Getting close to Battlefield game full auto combat.
Slowing the exhaust gasses also reduces the recoil. The VSO Gun Channel did some breakdowns on this.
I remember watching some showcase/interview around polymer cased ammo that emphasized the thermal insulating properties of the casing itself. They did a mag dump and had the dude stick his finger in the chamber to show how little heat transfers to the chamber itself.
Yeah. It's called "Sounding." All the high speed, low drag boys are doing it.
You should look it up.
Yeah I think in the near future polymer casing will be adopted universally. The military is stubborn tho so idk.
Hmm, combine that polymer with a shortened version of the Steyr ACR's cartridge and action, but slant the magazine by 18° to fit into a grip, and you'd have a solid machine-pistol.
@@handroids1981 Could've sworn it was called "Docking" which usually helps out in a team setting to get everybody up to speed.
@@zerillisguren7720 They make sounding equipment for that too
My only rifle experience is a single magazine I ran through a church friend's M1 Carbine so I can't tell if I'm being dumb but those controls are blowing me away. Everything can be done ambi without taking the rifle itself off your shoulder, I love it.
Excellent rifle and ammo great video thanks Mike and Micha and the boys from velocity
The way it ejects spent casings in slow mo scratches an itch I didn't know I had...good stuff
Its kinda like the Desert Tech forward eject system....except this one seems to work.
@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz Was thinking it was a derivative of that when I first saw it, wish we could have seen the insides.
@@gaveintothedarkness I _speculate_ that it used a different system. The MDR has a cover that captures the casing as its pushed perpendicular to the bore, this seems to be holding the cartridge on the bolt until its pushed out.
I hope Ian plans to break it open soon because that would be amazing to see.
@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz That would be sweet to see Ian break this down and geek out. And then off to Karl for a mud test.
Thats what i came to the comments for. Super weird ejection. Definitely wanna look into it more
For me I think that is a beautiful weapon system, the options available are something else, surely there is an easy fix for a trigger replacement to make it an even better setup. Awesome video as I’ve not seen this rifle before 👍👍👍👍👍
Great video like always Mike! Wish I had this in my arsenal as well!
This is what an actual “next generation” rifle looks like. Match it with exoskeleton and urban digital camo for perfection.
Lets be real army just wanted a MK18 with better caliber
@@xentiment6581Unfortunately they failed to get that; They got a MK18 with a worse caliber.
Urban camo sucks, digi sucks, urban digi is even worse. Army needs to get basic combat gear right before they stick an exoskeleton over it.
Next gen has nothing to do with the rifle to be honest since none of the new rifles bring anything to the table that make them outright superior. It has everything to do with what you can stick on the rifle. Electronics and datalink, allowing basic infantry to be able to provide ISR and targeting information up to the strategic level and everything in between with basic rifles mounting FCSs. Next gen is everyone and everything being able to “talk” to each other.
@@xentiment6581 I don’t know about what US Army wants. When I was a kid I was promised future soldiers would have Urban Digital Camo, Bullpup Rifle and Exoskeletons. I just want promises of 2000s to be hold.
@@NotWorthTheAirIBreathe If it looks cool it doesn’t suck.
no joke this is the coolest rifle to come out of this program
Nah. Bulpup ruined it for me.
textron was more innovative and interesting, I think this one was the best though.
@@xavierh.5102
Textron: hey PSA jackal, can I copy off you?
PSA: yeah just don’t make it look like you did
The company behind this went and converted legacy platforms like miniguns, various AR-10 platforms and others to use this new poly ammo. But the government was dumb and went with sig.
They even went to companies like LMT and were going to bring barrels out too if I heard correctly but it never came to be.
@@Xenix-xb4gwoh no it’s better in every way, we need to hate it
Fantastic review !!! I can't wait to see the performance data after a new barrel and short reset (3-4 pound) trigger is installed. With a little tweaking it will become my next must have gun. Regards from average US firearms enthusiast & civilian. I'll get the stamp for this baby.
I'm not a gun guy but that thing is the coolest thing I've seen in a long time, the sound out of it is incredible
Arguably the hardest intro yet. This thing is aesthetically pleasing.
*Gen 12 video has entered the chat*
@@MattWaller04if someone I’m talking to doesn’t know garandthumb in show then the gen 12 video😂
It's a hard intro. But I've been around long enough to see harder ones.
I've seen all the videos, honestly...the music for this one is what makes it the best IMO
The bad trigger is probably also caused by the open bolt/closed bolt system. The FG-42 famously has a very bad trigger and is also capable of both open bolt and closed bolt firing. So combine being a bullpup with a complicated firing mechanism, and it is no surprise that the trigger suffers.
I commented something similar then saw this lol. I think FW also mentioned the firing pin has a lot of mass to it which also attributed to a shift in point of aim due to the amount of weight moving even in closed bolt operation.
Bullpup equals trash trigger anyways. And like you say, complicate that and you have a Mosin trigger.
God damn do I love history
@@warden8573I think I saw from the World of Guns game that your finger is pulling against the whole bolt group a small distance when closed.
@@matthewotis3594 Tavor hv some amazing custom triggers
That recoil management is wild! The ballistic gel test was mind blowing. The energy was just wow
This intro was bad ass. Props for the video editors and producers.
My inner Halo geek is salivating over this weapon. This my honestly be a precursor to an legit MA-37/MA-5B rifle which is awesome. The insane recoil control, immense power, promising weight reduction, and comfortable customizability makes this system a very promising weapon for future use in civilian minutemen and military service; that trigger issue just has to be worked out first though and maybe even adding in and expandable internal wire stock like what is seen Sig MCX's and the Q Honey Badger. I personally would also like to see that accuracy increase to 1-2 MOA instead of the current 2-4 MOA. If all of that can be improved upon and added to the rifle, then this might actually the AR-15 killer; and I'm a massive fan of the AR-15 and think that the weapon should remain in service until 2050 minimum.
Or you could just get the actual Halo Battle Rifle today with a Desert Tech WLVRN. Gen 3 MDR
Dude it even SOUNDS like the Reach AR…
Fun fact Mr. Thumb, on the open/closed bolt alternating. The FG-42 did this between semi and full auto.
And the FN HAMR version of the SCAR, and the earliest CETME, etc... it's not that new or untested of a concept, just hard to sell the benefits vs financial costs of 1 or the other.
Cool gun… love the many design changes. Always really nice to see good change. Never gonna see it in canada… but also, really like the patch on your chest
Looks very fancy until you’re in a real life situation where your existence surely depends on it and the weapon develops a fault that cannot be solved quickly then you’re doomed
Grunt proofing idea for true velocity: Tie the open bolt firing to the auto selector.
Basically doing what the FG-42 and M1941 Johnson did. What's old is new again.
Seems like a waaaayyyyyy more controllable weapon than the spear from all the footage I’ve seen of the military pressure rounds
bullpups do that or are supposed to at least because you got that balance remember? Ontop of the fact that the long barrel being compacted? Oh yeah, thats way easier to control that sort of caliber while still being compact.
What the SA80 but better ^w^
Looks way better in every way. The sig 338 machine gun looks to big an hard to hold. Who in procurements got a nice chunk of change given to them by sig I think
Between this and the badass Ohio Ordnance machine gun, I feel like there's no good reason why sig won...
and also heavier than xm5
i have no knowledge abt military service in general but i think it's worth asking the question that's on my mind, why did the military service chose sig spear over this bullpup if this has all the benefits like light recoil, weight reduction etc.? at least from my initial understanding
There is just something... Cool...
About watching the muzzel (and the barrel)
Cycle forward and back as this type of rifle fires.
Its just, cool.
The gun sounds in the into just like something from CoD or Battlefield, it's so good!
After watching this, I'm convinced someone's getting a bribe to keep choosing Sig for the small arms contracts.
Pretty sure there’s an army general on their board of directors. So no wonder.
This
Yup, 100%. The XM5 and the sig P365 are so stupid.
I’m sure sig winning the MHS contract had a little to do with it, but the sig XM5 (now M7) was also the most AR like and wouldn’t require retraining the entire DoD on the controls they’ve been used to since the ‘60s
Soldiers have to learn different weapon systems anyways, M249, M240, M2 .50 cal, M110, and others, the training wouldn’t be an issue. But I agree, this rifle is incredibly innovative, much more so than the sig spear, I can’t comprehend the justification for not selecting this one
One thing I like about the fact that if you load a round then switch to open bolt... Is that the rifle is ready to fire and the system is sealed. And it only goes open bolt after the first round is fired.
In harsh environments, this is a definite plus.
I also like the ammunition better than the Sig option, seems much more practical than having crazy high pressures.
Even if the firing mechanism of the Sig is beefed up enough to handle the pressure without early parts failures... The wear on the barrel cannot be designed away so easy. That high pressure is going to wear out the barrel much faster.
This rifle might not be perfect, but I think the few issues like the trigger, could be improved with some more development.
Yup
The MCX can due barrel changes relatively easy, the cam surface can also be replaced and is separate from the reciever. While it will run itself down worse than other rifles, the SPEAR was designed with that in mind and has ways for an Armory to mitigate that easily.
With logistics behind it, that shouldn't be as big of an issue as, say, on a civilian rifle.
The barrel question is one I've been thinking about a bit on the Spear.
On the one hand, in most scenarios the US is preparing for, the wear on barrels should be a non-factor because the US has a famously good supply and logistics train that would easily be able to keep up with the demand of burnt out barrels.
On the other hand, in edge scenarios, such as a full-scale Europe wide war or a Pacific war with China I can definitely see the production and supply of barrels being limited enough that it could cause issues if the war lasts longer than a few months, assuming adequate stockpiles.
But by the same token, all munitions production is in the same category, from artillery shells to small arms cartridges to bombs. So, in effect, there should be little change. However, it does mean that sorting out the problem of production becomes more complicated as more and more things need replacement.
So, in all, I think that this isn't an issue in of itself, but if it's a trend of more disposable equipment, it can become problematic for logistics. And maybe the US assumes that if it ends up in a full scale war, it can just use the Spear for assaulting units and special operations forces while the standard line infantry just uses the M4 and 5.56.
When you have “unlimited” taxpayer funding, changing a barrel is nothing.
The reason why the pressure is huge is the fact that army wanted a compact rifle and defeat body armor. Unfortunately Sig must of figured out they couldn't do it with regular pressures with their design of their ammo so they to up the pressure and had to design the rifle around tha choice. By the way the army chose Sig cause of the design of the ammo is part of the reasons why the MCX Spear was chosen. The ammo design means changes to the ammo wouldn't be hard if they wanted to go Plastics.
This is what would’ve won the NGSW contract if our military industrial contract wasn’t corrupt. The XM7 is the new M14!!!!
💯 funny how sigs trash keeps getting contracts
Pretty much... I do not like Sig's rifle at all. I do like the MG though.
SIG's offering is too conservative in it's design and overall system advancements to be a "true" next generation weapon, almost to the point that it's a "pick me" bid for the probably more conservative thinking project leaders asking for an insane 6.8mm round. Even sticking with the SIG rifle and looking at 6.8 alternatives that happen to be polymer cased like the True Velocity polymer .308 instead of the Bi Metal design would probably be an advancement worthy of a "next generation" rifle.
The M250 though is probably a very good step forward for the SAW/LMG world.
I was honestly wondering why they even broke their streak of not actually getting a new rifle,and then wondering why they just didn't go 7.62 if they wanted more range.
Seems there's slighly less corruption,but we need it all gone to see actual next gen goodness.
@@No-mq5lw Can't do that, polymer ammo can't take the pressure SIG's M7 turd operates at in order to get the required ballistic performance.
The Garmin Xero goes BEHIND the barrel! It's not intended to be exposed to the muzzle blast. Woof ... poor little guy. Might want to read the instructions on that device...
Probably the most significant review of the year…Mike is the only in-depth reviewer of this gun at present.. 💯
Saw this ammo at Cabela's yesterday. It's was really expensive. It was also really lightweight.
Light enough to fill your pockets and bag? 😂😂😂
the tactical market has to be the most toxically overpriced [legal] market out there. I’m fairly confident that plastic is cheaper to produce and is in lower demand than brass casings but here we are. Also Oakley and ESS charge $100+ for eye pro but MSA charges $12 for very similar glasses made for firefighters
@@antonio4114 yeah you throw the word tactical on to anything at immediately jumps in price
@@kameronjones7139”milspec” is the real selling point. My eye pro is rated Z87+ instead of milspec ballistic but z87+ is more than enough eye protection. Its also why milspec rated ESAPI plates are way more expensive than NIJ rated civilian plates
Bought a box myself, just so I could have some. It still sits in its box
Idk if its the camera mic or what, but this gun sounds POWERFUL.
Such innovation in one package!
16:00 You guys did a great job with the gelatin in the sun and the shadow background. The contrast made the results clearly visible.
Never thought of cooking a baked potato that way.
😂😂😂
I got "Baked" with a potato (not Joe) also an apple when I had no papers.
I like to smoke the marijuana as well
I too take a marijuana occasionally
@@AC-hj9tv sometimes ill even take 2 marijuana's...
I said it for years and Imma say it again, bullpup makes sense only for rifle calibers. The weight distribution, barrel size, recoil management combo are better than the disadvantages.
nice patch, thanks for the love.
This is the NGSW I was rooting for. Thanks for making a video out of it! Tons of new information!
Yup
I understand why this weapon didn't win but I kind of wish it did. It's really cool, and aside from the issues with training an army on bullpups and the fact that the LMG/squad automatic weapon counterpart was not as good as SIG's LMG counterpart, it was extremely impressively designed. I mean the SIG Spear kicks like a mule compared to this thing.
Meh bullpup training thing is a bs they just hate bullpups. Its not a logical decision they just dont like them so it loses
The Sig also is quite front heavy from what I've heard, ammo is heavier, service life is probably less, and is going to get real dirty with all those holes.
Ironically the SIG's LMG counter part might not be adopted. Since the whole army is going to be eying up the REAPER since SF adopted it.
But I can see why the superiority of the SIG LMG was a factor in its favor when the army was looking at what should be adopted.
That’s what I think most people don’t understand. The contract was for a rifle and automatic weapon as a system. Sig gave them a rifle and a machine gun at an offer that fit the criteria with a better price. Everybody else gave them a rifle and a drum magazine + heavy barrel.
@@badaoe3stratsonly130 The reaper would replace the 240B rather than the SAW from my understanding
Battle engi is a sub class- increased health enables engineer to take more fights. Decreased sentry cost allows for metal to be allocated towards dispensers and teles. Pick+support
Your channel is fantastic, and this video is a prime example! The demonstrations are meticulously planned and easy to follow. The information is superbly organized, and you showcase its practical uses with fantastic demonstrations.
With the cost of the ammunition for this gun the first thing that comes to mind is the quote from Team Fortress 2's Heavy: "_"It costs 400,000 dollars to fire this weapon... for 12 seconds."_
Sounds a lot like the activity that causes Trump divorces.
Good to see the spirit of TF2 is still alive here and there
I could imagine that this is a effect of low scaling, isn’t it? I cannot imagine plastic to be more expensive and/ or harder to manufacture than brass
The casings should be inherently cheaper at an economy of scale. Plastic vs Brass (and the secondary/tertiary mining, equipment and tooling needed)
Plastic is cheaper than brass
I love how they didnt hold back. Told us exactly how they felt about the trigger lol
I knew as soon as I saw it was a bullpup they were going to shit on it hahaha
they aren't all shit, but def a majority
He only shit on the trigger
@@Dmac6969 that’s what I meant
@@TacoCrismaThere's nothing wrong with bull pups. Your AR has benefited from over 70 years of improvements and refinement. Apply that to a Bullpup (not to mention the aftermarket triggers already available)
That dad advice at the end. I'm quoting that now. "Never cut corners and things that come between you and the ground."
😮😮 very cool cinematic opening, love it
As soon as I heard that it was both short recoil and gas operated, I believe that this would be a complicated design to manufacture, and thus, expensive. The open and closed bolt options just sound like they add to the complexity. The controls seem well-thought out, though.
The sig machine gun also uses a similar recoil mitigation system and is actually one of that weapon's strong points
The short recoil is one of the most fundamental issues. They chose recoil mitigation at the cost of a rifle that's potentially 4 MOA out of the box mint.
That MDR style ejection 😂 yet somehow it functions better than the MDR did on V1
A high budget tends to do that...
Desert Tech made their own 6.8x51 submission for the NGSW program. Sadly, they had application issues so it never made it as a finalist. The trigger alone on a new-gen MDR shits on this gun
if it's to prove that you don't know how the MDR ejection works, it's successful!
While not identical, it's similar enough in concept 🤷♂️
I love the sound it makes. it looks a bit goofy, as it looks a decent amount like the SRS desert tech, so it would look like a bunch of guys running around with snipers like its a call of duty match.
My god do I want one of these. In all my years of following the NGSW I somehow never knew this had a reciprocating barrel! That recoil is insane!
I appreciate that can. It feels nice to have some representation.
Hey, thats an average size can and we both know it!
😂😂
Coke can gang stand up
@@msquared9605 The little airplane ones? Yeah thats me
That can has a great personality and is funny
Man that thing is a frigging laser in full auto, especially for the sheer power it has. Throw on a new trigger and I really see this rifle going places.
yup right in the trunk of my car.
31:03 true, there's no brass getting ejected so you don't get brass in the face😂
but it's a great thing to make it more convenient to switch from right to left without to much of an inconvenience
That is the craziest thing I have ever seen. Open and closed bolt.
Worked for the sister company of True Velocity during the prototyping of this weapon. When GD lost the contract, I wondered what was gonna happen with this stuff. It's very cool to see it in operation.
Micah, the camera work was spot on. Great job.
This was the one I was rooting for, I freaking love it.
Super impressive bullpup. Was surprised by the power!
I know I'm biased towards bullpups anyway, but I think this just looks cooler than the XM7/Sig Spear. And the reduced weight and heat transfer would have been a huge benefit overall.
I wish Americans weren’t allergic to bullpups. They’re so cool and have nice benefits.
@@Devin7Eleven The OAL and velocity requirements were basically written for a bullpup. Then Sig comes in with their scrap bin metal smelting stuffed with pure cocaine concept and they created a round that generates more chamber pressure than an Abrams' 120mm tank round in order to meet the requirements with an AR pattern rifle. Combine that with Sig's now infamous reliability problems with new lines of firearms and you've got a recipe for total disaster.
The editing is quite epic for this one! I mean the editing team you guys have (I believe Mica leads the editing?) is AMAZING. I’ve said this before, but it bears repeating. I love the team you have assembled. I like how you involve most everyone in your team on screen and giving credit to your team for this amazing channel.
Hell ya man! They brought the EDIT 💪🇺🇲
Anyone know the intro music?
HALO I think
This weapon has sparked more interest for me than just about anything in the past few years. Btw aaaawesome fkin intro man,just beautiful. Aaaalso...watch geek here🤓 that a Squale?Marathon?
SDI - Sore Dick Institute. That one is for the homie, miss ya Charlie!
Great video. That round looks nasty. What a great time to be around for modern military weapons.
Something a lot of people miss about the NGSW program... it's made to defeat just about any body armor available. Guess who has the most body armor out of every nation? US citizens.
Something to consider
@@kevinfitzpatrick5949 While that was the intent, it pretty much failed in that respect since the 6.8 has virtually identical energies to 308 and the penetration also cannot defeat IV armor. 6.8 can penetrate like 5mm of RHA at close range which is about equivalent to like an AR500 plate, but then again so can an M16.
@@DaveSmith-cp5kj well we haven't seen proper AP loads for the 6.8 but yeah the penetration really isn't much better than the .308 though the ammo does weigh a good bit less.
Garang Thumb tests AN-94 and RM-277, Scott KB owns and shows most powerful hand held arty, and Brandon bout to finish a AK-50 and running for Congress. What a helluva time we live in
That thing is just awesome
Awesome video!!!!
My mom has a prototype of that barrel action and suppressor in her bedroom. At least, I think that’s what it is.
Why does this lightsaber smell like fish?
I'm never going to be able to unsee this