The Reserved List: Its Rich History, Controversy, and Downfall
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- čas přidán 15. 11. 2022
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Another couple of corrections: Chronicles was less than two years from Magic's initial release -- July 1995 vs August 1993 for Alpha. Also, the Gaea's Cradle foil reprint (and the gold-bordered championship deck version) was from before the card was on the reserved list.
True
Pro-reserved list arguments crumble with one word, Pokémon.
What they could do is say fuck the list and print a better power 9
Create a 0 CMC artifact that taps for 4 mana and lets an opponent draw 1 card, but don't call it black lotus
Create new moxen that taps for 2 mana each
That shit will automatically kill the desire to have lotus and moxen in vintage when there is a better option
Kill the reserv list
I think the reserve list should stay, and to combat its problem WOTC needs to allow proxies (sanctioned versions) to be allowed in all tournament and LGS setting. The "play MTG" side of the game should always be affordable and accessible as it was meant to, which leaves the collection side of official cards still open. Prices will drop a touch at first because of fear but after the initial 6 months they will be right back to normal.
gold bordered proxies for 5$ each that are allowed for official WOTC tournaments and LGS play (Friday night magics, commander league, etc.) anything with WOTC prizes available. The proxies can be used for casual play but are not allowed to be bought or sold by LGS's or card traders per contract. This will keep the sanctity of the reserve list while allowing players to ability to play with the cards no matter what. But WOTC makes money off the reserve list so it wont happen
@@DaxVerus > *or card traders per contract*
Not sure how that would be enforcable, especially for LGSes that don't deal in Magic product (IF any exist,), and ESPECIALLY for people merely trading cards (or even reselling cards).
The reserved list is meant to keep the card stock value up, it allows collectors who have invested to maintain investment and for the game to keep having incentive to buy new cards for the purpose of potential revenue later, even though the early investors have made their profit margins and them some, new investors dont want those prices to drop and they are safe purchases with known potential profit.
This is the only reason the reserve list stays and the only reason WOTC chooses not to abolish it. Those who would get mad are only those who use magic as a way to profit, and not the actual players. If they only cared about people being happy with the game as it is they would print these cards, but they don't, they care more about investors, stock value, and profits. And that is fine, but that is their choice to make and for this reason I support WOTC less and less every year. And investors only make short term income, it is players like myself who give continual income and who buy products steadily that keep companies alive long term.
Edit: on a side note, if a product is never to be reprinted, that defeats the entire point of stocks. They are meant to rise and fall, collectors cards, if they are never meant to be reprinted, should follow that rule to ALL cards and the reserve list should grow over time. The fact its only select cards is the reason its a problem. And if all cards are worthless then your tournament scene and competitive scene are what drives the game. Rather than the market value (which will still be fine but just not as severe as it is now)
The real problem is that the silent majority of those who have these cards are not players and only collectors.
I also do find it funny that the "problem" with the reprinted collectors only cards that could be used in non-WOTC sanctioned tournaments is exactly how it should be. Collectors should collect, but the tournament and play scene should be dictated to be for everyone, and not a money gate. The game has two sides to it, and if money is the reason that people cant enjoy at least one side of the game then its not inclusive and defeats the entire point of MTG being a family friendly, for everyone card game.
My rant is over, and I will die on this hill.
I honestly do think that at the bear minimum the dual lands need to come off. You said it yourself, only the revised prints tanked. They were already white border reprints of the original duals, and are necessary for the health of legacy.
I could gripe about how the likes of gaea’s cradle, wheel of fortune, and mox diamond need to come off for similar reasons (being reprinted post ABU) but the duals explicitly are a big game piece.
Cards from the original printings like counterspell and BoP retain insane value despite any reprints. Even revised duals will retain value due to the print style and white border; the panic selling I see, frankly, as temporary. You could reprint the duals next month as tournament legal and the old printings will retain value as collector’s items and the demand for the duals on the market for legacy and commander play will keep the prices high.
While I agree that the list brought stability to magic when it needed it most, the only real value most of the most expensive RL cards hold are as collectors pieces, not game pieces. As long as they never receive old treatments like we’ve seen in recent sets and promos, they will retain value.
And if formats like legacy can be revived in paper, some of those original printings will retain value by both collectablilty and playability.
The power 9, in the other hand, should either remain completely unprinted, or only have special printings for the winners of Wizard hosted tournaments like regionals or worlds. This makes tournament play far more glamorous for players as people will have aspirations for competitive play so that one day they too can have a black lotus if they get really damn good at the game and the feasibility of obtaining them isn’t gated to big money and dumping entire paychecks to single cards.
the fact shivan dragon is still worth a ton for a card with near zero tournament play (minus a pet card deck or two) proves that the collector side of the game will still hold strong. It is like stocks, if they print more alpha cards the prices will drop, but because investors will dump them and buy low the prices will start to rise again as demand increases and supply does too. People dont wanna lose money, but that is part of investing, people are supposed to lose money in their investments, its not a guaranteed income and should never be. The reason the investors get mad is they expect to forever gain value to a point where they can dump their cards but that is just not a fair nor practical market.
WOTC needs to print dirt cheap, affordable proxies that are legal for tournament play to allow more players to enjoy their game, meanwhile original prints of these cards will drop a bit before stabilizing as collectors items. A collection item should never be the gatekeep to a tournament, or WOTC needs to step up and ban all reserved list cards (which is the fair thing to do and will drop card prices even worse than reprints would.)
@@DaxVerus it would just be better not to print proxies and just do legal cards with the correct back, New art and modern borders. I personally think the reserve list as it is should be changed to a 10 year rotation. Every 10 years. Add and remove cards. Or keep some on the list.
I think there should be a middle ground. Old cards should hold value because it is a CCG after all, but I think some exceptions should be allowed eg. cards could be printed that are tournament legal as prizes in tournaments and so forth. Problem is, wotc under Hasbro has no restraint. You can tell they really want to break the reserve list rule to make a quick buck. Once the magic goes downhill due to oversaturation, the game is sold and Hasbro doesn't care. The worst thing is formats like legacy and vintage being totally inaccesible to most people who want to play but can't unless it's a 100% proxy based.
I keep saying we abolish the reserve list and make a new list. Keep the power 9 and a few other cards on said list.
Make it so that the power 9 are only reprinted as tournament prizes for worlds and maybe regionals. Have the others only reprintable as masterpieces at a unique rarity. Or have those as masterpieces at normal rarity and the power 9 as a unique rarity.
But the dual lands, mox diamond and lions eye diamond, along with lots of the others should be taken off entirely as they are commonly played cards in vintage formats and legacy
A good example is sensei's div top. You can get a foil etched copy, or a foil double masters copy, for 30$. But the original kamigawa and from the vault foils, which are less nice in quality and print, are still upwards of 100$ because they are collectors items.
This alone is the case with so many cards that there is zero reason for WOTC to try to play it up that printing old cards will lower the collection value of those old cards. They could print mana crypt every legacy set and the original version would still hold up at 200-300$ as it has for a while. Some cards would lose value but since the secondary market is truly controlled by a mix of supply and demand as well as collectors with limited copies of specifics cards there would be no true issue.
WOTC just doesnt WANT to.. thats it
You either have to kill the reserve list or allow proxies in all tournaments. I don't care which way mtg ends up going but the current situation is ridiculous.
I'm glad the people who are against the abolition of the reserve list are coping so hard. It's great to see the reserve lists removal brick by brick. It's mind boggling that people think their precious power nine will lose value. No other card game has off limit reprint cards. Pokemon for example reprinted base set charazard several times. Base set Charazard still maintains its value... Why? Because collectability. This is a card game not the stock market
Small correction: CE and ICE are from December 1993, not 94. At that time there were no talks about the Reserved List
You are right. It's written 1994 on the cards so I assumed it was from that year!
How tf do you upload so often
I don't sleep bro
why others TCGs have no reserve list and still keep having users? Like Yugioh (it has almost 25 years), the cards that are valuable are the first editions and some others specials, but they reprint every year the good cards that were expensive on the tournaments or on the meta
When the stocks go low enough, they will release a set of reprints and they will sell out faster than any other set they have ever produced. Money is king and they don’t care.
The reserve list is not a legally binding contract and that's why verbiage in it can be added, edited or abolished. MTG investors should all be wary as any day when the games profitability wanes, that's when mtg will cease to exist and over time be forgotten; by then, reserved list cards will be forgotten and a valueless relic...
that is why I proxy expensive cards
WOTC will end up offering the reserved list cards as singles. Don’t worry, the original copies will never lose their value because they are the originals. HASBRO has more money to give to lawyers than all the money that the players whose feelings are hurt.
It is an us and them view you have and only the players that own the originals can play in those formats. Watch. You think you know and are basing everything off assumptions.
C’mon WOTC kill the Reserved List. I think “investing” your money in the RL is silly, unless they are Alpha/Beta cards in which case they will still hold value regardless (even if WOTC abolishes the RL and reprints those cards into the ground).
4:06 well what a big fat lie - looking at you, mtg30th.
To be fair I made the video before that whole mess
Technically, it still had the caveat of "in tournament legal form," so in that sense no it wasn't really broken IMO.
investment in magic cards? hard pass
Same for me after everything going on...
@@MTGDeckmasters buy watches instead
@@richardanthonydelossantos5899 Like a Santos??
oh you mean that card game you are supposed to PLAY? Ye, lets make the investment side of it feel like the stock market. But then WOTC acts like they have zero control of the secondary market when you can nearly guarantee they make money when card prices rise and fall..
@@DaxVerus I am still paying but I don't consider it as a monetary investment
I bought reserve list cards recently to play with them. I really hope they don’t reprint them :(
With the epic failure that was M30, I think you're safe!
A lot of the game’s existence today is thanks to the reserve list
IDK, it feels like it helped at the time, but it feels like a stretch to go too far beyond that - since there becomes the question of verifying that there is even a connection (as opposed to a spurious relation). It also, IMO, doesn't say anything about whether it needed to be implemented the way it was, whether it needs to remain the way it is (not **necessarily** removal, but modification), etc.