What Happens When You Use Frozen Lime Putty in Lime Plaster?
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- čas přidán 8. 07. 2024
- This fall I started a little home improvement project on the Timberframe building at Dancing Rabbit Ecovillage. The house had originally been plastered with earthen plaster on strawbale and lime plaster on top of the earthen plaster. This didn't work so well and over the years the lime plaster has been cracking and peeling off the undercoat.
I'd planned to buy all new lime for the project but then I found a barrel full of old slaked lime putty. This had been left out for many years and experience freezing and thawing many times. I wondered, can you still use frozen lime putty? People around Dancing Rabbit had always spread the rumor that frozen lime putty was no good because it's chemical structure had changed through the freezing. But I looked it up online and found that that isn't true. So I decided to make use of that lime putty and redo part of the wall with it. How did it turn out? Watch the video.
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#LimePutty #LimePlaster #NaturalBuilding - Jak na to + styl
Strange texture indeed. Glad to see you are reusing resources !
Great video, Dan.
You are doing great job
Tip: For anybody who has done such projects involving many buckets, you inevitably end up stacking them one inside another for storage or just making extra space. Now, here's the problem. Ever try separating stacked buckets that are inside one another? Tip, easiest way to separate buckets is to force 120 PSI air into the seam of the stacked buckets. They release instantly!
Thanks for the tip!
It's such a pleasure to see you work on all kinds of stuff,because you are good at what you are doing.Always nice to look at people working when they know what they're doing!
You have really a lot of different skills!!
I enjoy your videos very much...always a lot to learn!!
Looking forward to the next!🙌😊
Thanks for the appreciation! I sometimes feel like I know a little about a lot of stuff, but I'm learning all the time. You have to learn about a lot when you are trying to live more self sufficiently as you probably know. But I really enjoy learning about a lot of things. I'm just fascinated by traditional skills as well as modern technology.
@@HardcoreSustainable ,I recognise this from my own living on a farm for the last four years,doing everything myself.And I see it as a gift,because I learn a lot,all the time!Often things I have never done before,and what a thrill to do it,and to manage!! It’s a huge kick!!Being curious helps a lot!As you are,I’m sure!
A good thing to have knowledge about the skills back in our history,as well as being curious about what’s coming in the future.
Thank you for your wisdom. I’ve learned some new ideas that I will apply.
I have worked with lime plaster to cover my straw bale structures. From my reading, the old-timers used to say the older the putty the better. My understanding is that, as long as it's covered with a layer of water, it, can stay good for really long time, say 10 years even. I can try to find the reference in one of my books if you like.
I do know that you should not let lime freeze for a few days *after* you put it on the wall. Perhaps that is where the confusion comes from.
Yes that is true that you shouldn't let the plaster freeze right after applying it. If it's wet the water freezing will expand and ruin the bond. That could be where the confusion lies.
I'd love to find out about the reference in the book, but it might take some searching. I did find some info online that said they bond seemed to cure quicker with older frozen lime. There is so much info out there. There is even a lot of info that says hydrated lime sold in the US is intended to be mixed with cement for mortar and shouldn't be used alone, but we've been using it for decades and it seems to hold up. Probably wouldn't be as good without roof overhangs and probably isn't as durable as non-hydraulic lime but it still works for a wall on strawbale.
@Peter Pebbles Thanks for that reference. I'm still always learning more. But I like those microscope pictures of the grains of lime putty and how they change with time. It makes sense. I know for the quicklime, you have to let it slake a long time and it gets better with age, but for the hydrated, they say you can use it after a day of slaking because it's, obviously, already hydrated (though hydrated with heat I believe). But there isn't a lot of info about longer slaked hydrated lime and any difference in the plaster product. I'll have to read that whole article through.
I know that non-hydraulic lime is the purer high calcium made from shells or pure lime stone and the hydraulic has other minerals in it that make it set faster and stronger. But supposedly the hydrated lime we can access here is not as good for lime plaster, though it is purer than the hydraulic. It supposedly has magnesium in it that interferes with and doesn't contribute to the chemical reaction of the calcium to calcium carbonate. It seems to work fine for us but it is definitely softer than I'd guess the hydraulic lime plasters are.
Thank you for the video! It's always inspiring to see you working on your house or others, as I'm a little over 2 years from early retirement and seeing someone who has already done things I plan to do (like the cob floor, gray water system, solar, and today lime plastering) really helps demystify it in a way that reading a book doesn't. I've been able to work on some cob walls as well as lime plaster, but it's been limited experiences so far. I just found the sustainable living visitor program on Dancing Rabbit's site, fingers crossed it's still possible to come visit next year!
That's great. Yes we are hoping the vaccine is available and taken and that things are back to normal for at least part of the season.
Sorry to be so offtopic but does any of you know a way to log back into an instagram account?
I was dumb lost my login password. I would appreciate any tips you can offer me.
@Maximo Andres Instablaster =)
@Karson Colt Thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site on google and I'm waiting for the hacking stuff atm.
Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Karson Colt it worked and I finally got access to my account again. Im so happy:D
Thanks so much, you saved my account !
Another amazing video! Looking forward to a livestream if you end up doing one!
Thanks for the positive feedback!
You could try liquifying it in a paint shaker. I think it would work.
This house got a lot of massaging :). Fantastic job. I complain because I have some repointing to do on my Victorian house, but this is different level.
Natural building requires a lot of labor. But it's more sustainable than conventional methods and if done right it will last a really long time.
Love it! TY! Yes lime mineral does not age. Lol
Only guessing based on what things I've read and other videos I've watched, but I would think as long as it's been "sealed" with water, it should be fine. Exposure to air is what would enable a chemical reaction. Lime infused ice cubes that float to the top might result in a small amount of reacted lime, but I wouldn't think it would be enough to cause a problem.
Thank you for the video. Can you make a video about recipes you use for internal lime plastering and how do you deal with cracks when plaster doesn't dry evenly. Also homemade lime wash paint. I saw somewhere that adding a bit of vinegar to lime wash paint results in lime being not so dusty after it dries.
Thank you.
I will see about doing another video when I'm finishing up this project in this video. I'd say that if the plaster is cracking it might be that it's drying too fast. I haven't ever had that problem with lime plaster but definitely with earthen plaster because it is not the right combo of clay to sand. I didn't know about the vinegar addition for reducing dusting. I've never actually used lime plaster inside though I did mix a lime casein paint for a portion of my earthen plaster and it worked great. I think the casein prevents dusting too.
ouuu, few moths ago i had same problem with one bag of lime putty. My putty wasn't so drastically been affected by freezing, but have had some 5cm and smaller rocks that don't react with HCl. For me solution was to mix 1 portion of putty width 1 portion of water, and then strain mixture through a 1mm kitchen wire mesh on top of 3.5 portions of dried sand. After mixing this wetty plaster by electric drill, I left it in hermetically closed buckets. Few days after is got water separated on top, and after removing water beneath was nice dry plaster (mortar).
sounds like a good way to do it
Aged Lime in water is the Best for making water based wall paintings... Frescoes..... painted on while Wet. The water based paint will bond to the lime and the color will be permanent. There is a mostly sand coating underneath, then the lime plaster added on top in parts so you can paint it while wet. Then the next part is put on...and painted while wet... and so on. The sand layer has to be square sand. River sand, not ocean sand, so there is something for the lime to stick in. The sand is also washed to get the little grit stuff out of it before use.
If you check out some of my other videos, I talk about the lime fresco finish on my house. I used lime water mixed with earthen pigments and painted it on the still wet lime plaster coat underneath. I wanted to get a deeper purer color instead of a pastel that you'd get with a lime wash.
I have a question is this lime plaster the same as Venetian plaster
Loved the video. Maybe you can tell me why my grandmother had me limewash the trees in her yard when I was a young-un. She told me it was to help with pests. I'm 66 years old and live in the Appalachians of Kentucky. Thanks, love your channel.
A few years back I painted the trunks of some of my fruit trees with white paint. I'd read that it could help prevent trunk boring grubs that were ruining my trees. It seemed to help, but I think the worms only preyed on the trunks during certain weather conditions. The limewash might have been for the same thing. Limewash is also used to preserve wood. This is why farm posts and fences were painted with it. It's called white wash.
@@HardcoreSustainable Native Americans where I live used urine in their mix (most likely out of convenience.) Archaeologists working at Hovenweep had a hard time replicating the strength attained by the natives until realizing the chemical bonding that had taken place was due to urine.
Hello can I apply lime putty to repoint soft brick in UK winter? I'm looking to repoint gable end approximately 25 bricks. I've been told to use a rapid set cement mix or wait for summer.
Any ideas how Traditional buildings were built? Only in summer?
I'm not sure if you're from the UK I found you whilst researching "Smeaton Project by English Heritage"
I'm not the best one to ask about that, but I've watched other youtube videos on lime mortar in the UK. There are many different varying softnesses of lime types and sometimes if you are using a cement based mortar, it will not work well because it has no flexibility in a wall that needs to flex. It will crack and crumble in time. But the videos I watched were working with restoration of stone buildings. I also don't know what temps you are working with. Lime sets better in warmer temps and the mortar will be damaged if subject to freezing temps before it's set. You would also be using a lime mortar mix of aggregate and lime putty, not just lime putty, but maybe you knew that.
Do you have a website where I can support your work?
Thank you for your appreciation! I've just set up a Patreon at patreon.com/hardcoresustainable. There is also Paypal at paypal.me/HardcoreSustainable
I only set this up in the last couple weeks and will announce it in my next video. I'm glad you enjoy my videos and want to support my channel.
HS - watching you smash down the old calcified lime plaster with a hammer - are you able to somehow reuse or reprocess that to a useable format? TX.
I guess the problem might be that it's both lime and earthen plaster. The lime doesn't have any kind of binder, but the clay from the earthen plaster might hold everything together. You might be able to reuse it as plaster. I just ended up composting it. All of that makes a perfectly good as a soil amendment.
@@HardcoreSustainable I went to check out adding lime to gardens and its most useful in acidic soils with a PH below 5.5. Adding it to soils above 6.5 could be problematic for growing fruit and veg. Very interesting! I wish someone with the access to such a project would trial reusing lime plaster. Let me ask: if the lime plaster was pure lime, could you reuse it successfully as a plaster again? Thanks!
@@LitoGeorge Yes, lime is basic. Our soil in most places at Dancing Rabbit Ecovillage is 5.5 or less.
You couldn't reuse to lime as plaster because it has already undergone a chemical process that made it harden into plaster. Earthen plaster doesn't undergo a chemical process, so it can be reused.
@@HardcoreSustainable - thanks for your answer, that puts an idea I had in mind, to rest. I have an idea where I'd like to build a code approved, 90%+ (goal is 95%) recyclable house. It seems that the lime plaster can be used wisely in the garden so thats one problem down. Thank you.
I’m going to chime in ans say lime plaster once cured can be reused, broken up, as an aggregate, because it has turned inot a rock. Mixed into lime with some sand it can become lime concrete, for example.
How is the plaster holding up over the winter?
The new stuff? I'm not sure because I'm not there. i don't think anything would affect it over the winter. It should be fine.
@@HardcoreSustainable gotcha. I was just wondering if there was any cracking due to the freeze/thaw cycles, or if the lime render cured sufficiently in time. Maybe spring will tell :)
@@michaelstansell1001 I think it had plenty of time to cure enough before it got cold. It will continue to cure over many months, not so much in the cold though. You just have to make sure it isn't still wet when it freezes because that leads to expansion of the water molecules and the plaster will break up.
Om Ah Houm
Found your video because my putty will freeze this winter unless I move it. Why aren't you using quicklime? According to experts, Type S is NOT a good product for most purposes unless mixed with concrete. Ever watch Nigel Copsey's videos?
czcams.com/users/results?search_query=nigel+copsey+lime
There is no point to slaking Type S, it's already done. Not good putty and is highly processed, almost as sustainable as Portland cement.
In the southwest, quicklime is not available and I had to pay through the nose for shipping, but in your area, it's widely available.
Yes, you can use type S lime right away. I only slake it for a day before using it. But once it's slaked you can use it anytime after.
The info about type S not being a good product for lime plaster is false. I've read the same thing in natural plaster books, but I've also read that it's fine to use type S and I have a lot of personal experience using it. There is so much misinformation spread about it by people who have never even tried it. We've used it as an exterior finish for decades and never had a problem. It makes a durable finish that holds up much better than earthen plasters with oil or other finishes. Mixing it with cement will make it impermeable, which is bad. You want it to breath.
It's used in the states all the time because we can't source quicklime and the types of lime available in Europe. It's not widely available here. I've looked into it. Shipping them here is ridiculously expensive. But the difference is that it's already hydrated so you don't have to slake it.
@@HardcoreSustainable Do you have pictures with updates 5, 10, 20 etc. after construction? Also, where are you?
I've never taken a chemistry class and I just read the entire page at lancasterlimeworks.com/learning-center/types-of-lime/
So glad I did! Got several of my current questions answered. Like the film on the putty water, I thought we had some contamination and was worried.
My head is spinning, will have to study that page and compile what's relevant to me as we have countless different applications.
Had some downtime last winter to research lime construction and ended up ordering 2 tons of quicklime. Way more than I need, but it was the most cost-effective.
It is so incredibly weird that with the internet and so much communication people are incapable of forming co-op or buying clubs.
Am so disappointed by the so-called professionals teaching natural building using Type S and NOT disclosing that it's not that natural and briefly explaining the difference. They SHOULD be offering their students bags of quicklime at a reasonable price will still making a profit. WIN WIN!!
You have your opinions, but that could be because you want to appeal to the masses and be an influencer. And it's because of the many people like you that I could not figure out lime 15 years ago.
Yes, people are ignorant and IQs and attention spans are rapidly declining. But is it really too much to expect just a little bit of honest disclosure?
I'll gladly look at your sources for your claims of Type S and quicklime being identical and working just as well.
And I definitely want to see how frozen Type S lime is what made "Roman concrete" last thousands of years.
I'll be thrilled to 100 years!