Basically the attitude of all HELLBAYAH team members 🤣🤣 All jokes aside I can see Hyewon and Sakura's skills are on similar level, but Sakura enjoys performing more than Hyewon, so she has more stage presence and still pursues the idol career with Le sserafim. While it was just anxiety for Hyewon, i think she made a nice decision not being an idol anymore.
If you watched izone's behind the scenes, you'd know she tried her best and never stood out the wrong way in the group despite being surrounded by really talented members
i think pitch correction and lip syncing are hurting idols’ reputations rather than helping them. when someone who consistently sings live misses a line or has a voice crack, you can tell that it was just a bad day. when someone has never sung live and the one time they do they’re straining, they can’t stay on beat, they’re off key, you do start to wonder why they have a career as a, you know, singer
Haewon from NMIXX have several voice crack, but no one accuse her as bad vocalist. Because Haewon has good vocal technique and NMIXX's HATERS are so small.
@@anistardi That's because Nmixx is an ace group. She might've voice crack but we all know she is skilled. Even Nmixx haters would agree that Nmixx's vocal skill is just superior along with Aespa.
hyewon is probably the only 'dozen' loved by everyone, literally I've never seen hyewon get hate. She's an iconic I'm not even saying this because she was my bias. She literally gave no f and people loved her for that.
@@vixxexo6855 Hyewon literally earned her spot through votes, there are 2 people who 'took a place' and she isn't one of them. Hyewon had one of the best storylines in the show so people liked her.
I think about their Boombayah performance often and I never watched the show Hyewon said "someone has to do the lines and that'll be me ig" and honestly more than iconic bc how can people not love the look in her eyes like "pls let this be over" 😅😅
This obssesion with perfection is making kpop unsufferable tbh suddenly everybody is an vocal/dance expert which means they can say the most vile things to idols when they dont perform well
Kpop idols are supposed to be able to atleast hold a note and dance decently. If they can’t do that, then they should never debut. We need talented idols back.
Sometimes they expect too much. Like people even called Wendy bad singer when she covered Beyonce. But some idols are weak like Hyewon, Lesserafim, Illit and NJ. They have to debut someone who has some skills, but now many idols with no skills debuts.
I think there’s a certain standard that every idol should meet when it comes to singing, dancing, performing etc. Obviously each member is going to shine more in different areas but I think that there should be a certain level of competency in dancing and singing displayed in order for someone to debut. If only the K-pop industry wasn’t SO heavily fixated on visuals, this wouldn’t be so much of an issue.
The obsession with perfection is getting too much. I remembered during In Bloom's encore they criticize Zhanghao's vocals when he was literally crying at that time. Like how did you expect him to sound perfect while crying? Idols can proof countless times that they can sing live but if they make a small mistake in an encore they suddenly forget about all the good performances. Even good western vocalists have made mistakes while singing live
he's the most stable live singer of zb1 though proven by their the show feel the pop encore and japan encore, he's the only one with consistency.. thus, he deserves more lines esp. challenging lines as a main vocalist.. I firmly believe that kpop is not charity, let the singers sing, let the rappers rap, don't expect a non-vocalist to sing well esp. during a live stage
@@viefam004 yes I think he's the most stable but I think Gunwook and Taerae are also stable (some live performances when Taerae is doing all those high notes)
as a hyewon bias, i definitely agree with most of what you said in the video. since the first episode of pd48 until her last performance as iz*one the improvement was extremely apparent. her dancing, even though not on Lee chaeyeon level, was never lacking in any performance, and she never stood out in a bad way in any act they did. her vocals have also improved immensely, and her songs post-iz prove it, she might not be a main vocal, but her tone and technique are beautiful. and ofc her rap was very fun to watch. the lack of underdog stories in recent kpop is very sad, cause going through the journey of seeing an idol improve and get better over theur career until they reach their goal is very beautiful and gives people (at least me) power to believe if you work hard enough you can reach what you want.
I always looked up to Hyewon. She is intelligent af! The way she used her love and passion for Japanese culture and anime to gain popularity was incredible! Everyone around her always speaks highly about her. She always tried her best, her hard work spoke for her because yes, she never was the best but you can tell she worked hard BTS and she was improving. She spoke multiple languages, was charming and funny, was selfless, was hardworking, plays multiple instruments, is an actress, is a model. Basically,I think she is an incredible person, full of positive qualities, and to me that is the most important thing to be as an idol and as a person!
You're so right about the lack of empathy. It's honestly sucking the fun out of K-Pop for me. It's not fun to follow your favorite group when the whole discourse about them is dominated by an endless hate train. No empathy whatsoever.
kpop fandom space was a better place before 2020 and I can’t believe I’m saying that lol Nowadays, there are too many solo stans in the fandoms and other self qualified talent coaches who are ready to jump on an idol once the idol does something bad.
@@ericccky same like not to sound like a hag but the pandemic overflowed not only kpop fandoms but all other ones into a cesspit filled with fans who just know how to piss people off nothing nice ever comes outta them ://
As someone who's into kpop since 2nd Gen, the Fandom always got a few bad apples and annoying fans but can't believe I say this, it's literally WORSE rn especially like you said after c*vid, it's just goes downhill. Like the fact I can see hate comment literally in any live videos rn it's crazy, in 2nd Gen era we used to search for bad comments and pretty much trying to drown them with more appreciation comments etc but now it's even get pretty hard to do that either
I dont know where this "they dont deserve their carrer if they arent perfect" is coming from, as if music industry was ever fair to begin with and whoever was the best is the most success
No one is asking for perfection. A few bad performances can be excused because idols are humans. However, when you prove over and over that you’re lagging behind everyone else and struggle to DO YOUR FREAKING JOB properly, you really don’t deserve to be chosen by the company to debut.
@@kpopnimation i get that but thats not how the music industry works because by that Standard many Western Acts that are popular also would not be as big as they are, like there are so many people succesful that dont do their job that well to begin with tbh
@@kpopnimationthere is nothing you can do about it the entertainment industry has never been only about talent. Their job is to entertain people and if they have fans then theyve done their job
I feel like it worked in Iz*one though. Sure, individually she mightn't have been great, but in terms of the whole group, she blended in really well and it wasn't noticeable during performances. In terms of group dynamics, she was definitely vital in making the mood, and variety shows. Literally couldn't imagine Iz*one without her.
kang hyewon is honestly iconic lol. she always tried her best and i think she did pretty well. she fulfilled her job in the group perfectly. she's not soloist material and thats fine cuz not everyene is. im glad she's into acting now, shes good at acting!
I know she didn't debut in the show she was competing in but, Yooyeon of TripleS is literally the same. She was literally one of the members on the show people would call "untalented" yet she debuted in TripleS and is now one of the most popular members of that group.
OMG YAYYYY a video about my ult bias in kpop🎉🎉🎉 she became my ult MAINLY BECAUSE I relate to her so much, but also because she just looks so innocent like how could you ever hate her AND because her personality is not only screaming sweetheart but she also seems funny as hell!!!! I just LOVE her
At least 1 example I can think of is Ayaka from Nizi project, who mostly made it into the group mostly because of her interesting personality, steady improvements and visuals. I don't think the majority of kpop fans actually have very high expectations for the idols. Don't miss your lines, stay on pitch, follow the beat, and don't strain so much that it sounds painful. These are the kinds of basic skills you can learn within a few vocal lessons. So when an idol who consistently does these has a voice crack? Some people will criticise them, sure, but most netizens stick up for them. A good example would be Haewon or Chaehyun. But if we only ever hear an idol lipsync or sing with pitch correction, and the one time they sing live, they can't stay on pitch? If they can't do their job, why do they have it? I listen to kpop because I enjoy the music and performances. I don't need underdogs, I need singers and performers who make good art. I'd also like to highlight - not every member needs to be perfect at everything. In every skill category, a group should have more competent members than incompetent. Momo is not an amazing singer, but other members are, and most of the members are good singers. So it's alright that she's not an amazing singer, that's not what her role in the group is. In a lot of the groups that have received criticism for their vocals, most of the members aren't competent vocalists, and the groups are small, leading the incompetent vocalists to get lines they can't handle.
kiof receiving hate for their vocals is insane. i think that if a group has proven their vocal abilities, mistakes should be regarded as they are- mistakes. hating on normal human mistakes w/o consequence is rather myopic imo on the other hand if a group mostly sounds bad i think we can assume that thats their current base skill level, in which case im not surprised if ppl want to publicly voice their disappointment and disapproval
My question is why do they even care? If they aren’t supporting these idols, why do they want the “publicly voice their disappointment and disapproval”? If you think twice, these idols having low skills doesn’t affect them at all since they aren’t a fan or they aren’t supporting financially or anything. It’s jealousy and insecurity towards other successful groups who they deem are untalented and thus seeing them succeed, makes them irrationally upset that they started bullying them online.
fr they've proven over and over again how good they are, its actually ridiculous people came for them over ONE stage 😭😭. Also the stage wasn't that great, but it wasn't terrible!
You're so right about the sensitivity. Recently Wendy did a not so great cover on stage and people really said that she wasn't all that good and was overrated as a Vocalist. WENDY!
the thing with her is that she was only noticably "bad" when you looked at a fancam of her, and even then she was an okay performer most of the time. she never stuck out as notoriously bad, she was never raising the wrong roof (oops). there was a point at which she was called chaeyeon's shadow by her fellow members because she was behind chaeyeon during the lver dancebreak and she kept up well to the point you couldn't tell she was there. it's like she was the bridge reminding us idols were in fact humans
Honestly i don't agree with everything you say. Like, i also like seeing underdog stories, see trainee with positive mindset trying their best and working very hard and improving. BUT, everyone work hard in this industry. The problem with survival show is that they only show what they want to show. These trainees who are already almost ready to debut are also working very hard and since a biggest amount of time. It's even more difficult for them because after training for 4 years for exemple, they start to have problems with their trainee contract, they have more and more debt and they are becoming older and they face more pressure, more problems to debut. So they deserve as much debuting than a contestant who is painting as hardworking, because they are hardworking it just doesnt show as much. So i understand why some people find this "underdog" story appealing but personnaly i think it's a problem because: 1- 2 persons are fighting for the same thing but people will choose the person who don't deserve it the most(because this person with the underdog story has the passion+ work but the other have passion+work+skills) 2- this is also a problem for the person chosen instead of the most talented ones because she will be hated and her talents will never be really recognize. Like, people will say"oh she have improved so much" and for me it's like a backhanded compliment. 3- if the group disband(if the group is temporary) the person won't have many choices: they are not probably a full package who can go solo(because they were relying on others to hide their weaknesses) so they are becoming a model or an actress even if they don't really have a possiblity of becoming famous or they are ending their carrer. Maybe if they didn't debut too early they would have been able to debut solo or redebut in another group. But i agree, not everyone has to be perfect. There is no problem in voting for someone you like because of his mindset but, just for me, i'vote for less talented contestant only if i'm sure every other talented trainee will debut. And it's rarely the case because there is so much talented trainee(for exemple in r u next i'could have voted for wonhee if i was sure yunah, minju, himena, chanelle, jiwoo, jeongeun, minju, younseo, iroha and jihyun would debut but it's not the case because the final lineup is only 6 member. So i didn't voted for her, even if i like her.)
Ngl i think hyewon showed us that as long as you remain determined and positive for improvement, you'll still be remarkable to someone out there!! Hope hyewon is doing well on whatever zhe's currently doing
what's crazy to me is that everybody is seemingly watching encore stages and performances of idols they.... hate and think are untalented. like why are you watching their stages then if you think these idols don't have talent 😭 why not spend time actually watching videos of your faves
This is why i loved 2nd gen groups so much. They were so messy, unorganized and NOT perfect. That's what made it fun! That's why I love Hyewon so much and consider her as my favorite 4th gen idol, because she has so much 2nd Gen energy comparable to Qri from T-ara, Uee from After School or Noeul from Rainbow etc. Back then most girl groups had one or two Hyewon's and they were always loved by everyone.
For me, the worst thing about k-pop fans are they still can't tell apart what being a singer and what being an idol is. Hyewon is a perfect example, she is not the most talented idol, her dancing skills especially are very low, but she is my bias in Iz*one, because of her storyline in the Produce and her sincere personality, she is one of the most non-filtered idols I've seen and I just love it. For me, being an Idol is more about how we connect with them, one's ideal idol is talented af, other's ideal idol is jusr pretty af with an enjoyable personality (like Hyewon). While I understand that it can be frustrating that some idols worked so hard to be decent and debut while others debuted not being as good, I still think being an idol is more than just being a singer or a skilled musician.
Hyewon was okay because she was in a big group with members who could cover what she was lacking but groups debuting nowadays have far fewer members so the standard is higher
I never hated on Hyewon because, firstly, I will never send idols hate at all. If I don't like someone, I just move on. Secondly, she had that something you can't hate about her. She was relatable, I literally saw myself in her if I ever debuted in a kpop group. She was really a support member who served her purpose. She kept up with everyone despite not having outstanding skills, and I know for sure keeping up with the level of talent IZ*ONE had must've been hard as heck. Someone brought up the point that she basically took the spot of someone who could've been more talented and deserving of it. While I agree to some extent, I think the reason she made it in is the relatability I mentioned before. I don't know if she was rigged in or not, being honest, but I feel like whoever wanted her in the lineup saw this to some extent. Plus, she's pretty, and of course, kpop groups have to have visuals. While I don't love the idea, it is how the industry works.
Okay, was watching the "leftovers" beat the team that was filled with strong members exciting? Sure! But watching a team full of strong competitors just get eliminated becouse the opposing team "tried hard" even though they were lacking was not & I genuinely stopped watching the show after that. Even though I don't agree with jumping on idols for making one mistake, I do like that the standards seem to have gotten better.
What.... The members of the other team got hate after that episode because of their attitude. They literally chose the leftover team as opponents because they said it would be easy for them to win. Idk if it was an evil edit but the condescending attitude didn't sit well with people, especially in contrast with other teams who chose to go head to head with stronger peers (I think it was An Yujin's team, if I remember correctly). It was no surprise that they got eliminated during the next voting.
imo hyewon was never given much during her time in iz*one. like she got 2 seconds in lines every comeback and never had much center spotlight during performances. she was given some moments when they debuted and during violeta era but then each era onwards it seemed like the other “dozens” in iz*one (i hate to say it but sakura and minju, still love them sosowowowoos much) were given more opportunities to show off their improvement and hyewon was kinda off in the shadows. like it was clear that minju seemed like a second center in panorama. the moments where hyewon shined were on variety shows and their youtube content where she showed off her personality and such which made her an enjoyable person to watch.
i'm glad she's an actress now, it's just a bad fit for her to be an idol. people like her personality but sadly that is not enough to be a decent idol. she can't even smile while performing.
This is it! I don’t mind folks becoming idols becoming so due to popularity or their visuals BUT if their skills do not cut it; I respect people so much if they focus on acting if they have a knack for it more than their singing instead of trying to do both.
8:07 wonhee DEFINETLY debuted too early… girl wasn’t even a trainee for a month before RUNext. Also despite how talented Jiwoo was, the judges hated her and she pretty much had that underdog-to-top story (starting in the ‘low’ group somehow and working her way to the ‘high’ group) but the editors and Korean fans preferred wonhee. I still don’t see why wonhee was SOOOO dominant in the Korean votes. Yes she pretty and talented, but it was clear that even just a year or 2 of training would’ve made her so much better of an idol. But it was also clear hybe already had the concept and it made the line up and who was edited well in the show make much more sense. They never wanted people like Jiwoo and Chanelle with the pre planned cuter concept so they boosted people like wonhee
I’m pretty sure Wonhee trained for a few months border the show, other than that I totally agree. I still don’t get why she was chosen. Expect vocals which is mid, she doesn’t have much. She lacked stage presence and half of the performances she looked scared. Wonhee has improved but I wish she wasn’t the centre bc all the other member are way better than her tbh. Maybe Minju should’ve been the centre.i feel like only Koreans fans got to vote at the end cuz they wanted Wonhee, instead of constants like Jiwoo.
@@queenhiyyih2759I'm pretty sure it was less than a month, in the first episode she didn't even an initial ranking bc she had never done a monthly evaluation
If you want to know why Wonhee is popular with korean fans, i recommend you to watch her pocari sweat commercial. It really shows all of her charms that korean fans like. A child-actress like visuals with girl-next-door vibes and RUNext show also showed a lot of her personality for fans to connect. Her actual skills are just passable but it's the visuals and the personality that made her fans like her. HYBE really wanted her, that's for sure. They wouldn't put a trainee who they scouted at a random bus stop a few week before the show started unless they really believed she'd attract a lot of fans. I get why Jiwoo and Chanelle aren't chosen but I wonder if they had Jeemin or Jeongeun who fits illit concept, will the backlash be smaller? It will definitely raise the skill level higher but i guess we will never know why HYBE chose the current members.
Wonhee literally looks like a baby doll. I would guess that she was chosen because their baby-cute concept needed a baby-cute center, and they didn't care to spend the additional time or money training her when the only role they needed her to fill in the group was being adorable. That makes me a little mad because trainees pay companies through the nose to prepare them properly, but that's just how it is (well...at least for HYBE, which has a track record of not training their idols well).
10:28 I nearly cried when you said that Bahiyyih has been capable since the beginning & was never a dozen - she was just non-existent in the show bc MNet didn't want her in the final lineup. As her fan, that has been the root cause of so much of her hate & is the single biggest argument I have with the many who hate on her, so to hear you say that.... God I felt so validated. It's nice to know there are some CZcamsr's with both a brain and a heart - bc so many trash on her just bc it's what gets them the most views/engagement.
i disagree with the illit encore outrage, i think the girls have debuted too early in their lives, their voices haven't had time to develop properly yet and they haven't had time to gain more vocal lessons from the company. and the reason why fans these days expect perfection is because idols nowadays portray themselves as perfect more than any other previous generation. i miss the days when mamamoo were criticised for having a "too explicit" performance with gogobebe and they had their next comeback with waggy, where they sang about puppies and kitties, literally making a statement to the whole industry that they were in their late twenties and too old for such concepts. i could never imagine idols do such a thing today, they would have gotten dragged on tiktok and twitter
11:10 another thing that makes me sooo angry is when people obsess over groups very first win encore stages !! like i mean with illit,, on their first one that sparked a whole bunch of hate those girls were crying and excited for their first win (other ppl this happened to as well is triples and kiof, id say kiof was more excited while triples was more emotional tho), like ofc they wont sound perfect their gonna be grateful they got their first win !!!
Yeah specially with groups who get their fist win week or so after their debut. They're newbies at their job, and while they train you can't train for the real thing, being in front of so many people with their full attention on you makes anyone nervous at the start. I can't stand a lot of videos of idols "improving" compared to their previous stages when it's just them getting used and losing the anxiety and nerves with time. Fans will say "it's their jon" but everyone messes up at their job when they just start, and everyone has off days. But they don't treat idols like humans.
I remember Kim Yooyeon from TripleS being quite similar to Hyewon. When she participated in My Teenage Girl, she was known for her lacking vocals and dance skills, however she had a massive fan base and high online vote due to her personailty, background, and visual. She had a very perservering attitude on the show and tried her best to improve her skills since she had no training background in dance or singing.
The wonhee situation bothers me because of the supposed favoritism around her, and how it seems that the company stylized the group to be around her… idk about her as a human it’s just how the company is handling it that’s annoying. It’s the same way I felt with Ives debut, I have nothing against wonyoung, but the way the company seemed to favor her first over other members was annoying.
A2K is the best new survival show rn as majority of the girls were lacking in every field and we saw their growth in each episode and then see how good they are now as Vcha and better than some groups
there really wasn't an underdog storyline though nor live voting it wasn't so much a survial show more like a documentary following their journey to debut
Wanting kpop idols to sing well during encores isn’t expecting perfection. It’s part of their job to know how to sing, if they sound shaky, strained and miss a beat while standing still how am I supposed to believe they can do it while dancing? The bare minimum isn’t being done.
If every encore is bad then it is because their skills is bad. But when just one bad encore is okey, since it could be bad day. Even Kiss of life had one bad encore, they probably are tired. While Illit and Lesserafim had many bad encores. So you should watch more then one encore to judge.
That is valid, but it is extremely unrealistic to expect idols to give their 100% 24/7 given how mentally and physically draining the job of an idol is
@@mouche563no one expects perfection every time. Even people like Wendy has rough days. But when your “bad” days seem to be the majority, you don’t deserve to be an idol.
@@kpopnimation You guys most certainly do expect perfection every time and it's insane. You guys will take a handful of poor performances and then let it represent the entire group. It only seems like the "majority" to you because you just focus on hateful tiktoks and yt shorts. Your literal account has one short and it's a negative one LOL. Lesserafim for example were praised for their amazing dance performances up until this year for whatever reason and now you guys are pretending like they've been bad this entire time, cherry picking clips as if that represents them as a whole. You're either a new kpop stan or don't even stan these groups, idk why you'd speak on anyone 'deserving' to debut when you're this clueless.
@@wavzone keyword: DANCE performance. They’ve always been underwhelming vocally. Also, show me one performance with zero autotune, backtrack, etc. where all five members sounded good. And not just “good” as in “better than an average joe in karaoke”. “Good” as in “they actually sound like professionals”. But that’s not even the point. The bottom line is, you should not be as truly underbaked as a performer as Hyewon or Guanlin and still get to be in this industry. A skilled person like Lily or Taemin being a bit off for a few performances? That’s fine. Being CONSISTENLY a weak link is not.
I agree with the lack of empathy among K-pop stans nowadays. On TikTok, they often use clips of Hyewon from her PD48 days to make fun of her, closing their eyes to her achievements in IZ*ONE and post-IZ*ONE. If you listen to her solo songs post-IZ*ONE, you'll notice she has a beautiful voice, even though she didn't have the chance to showcase it earlier. As for her dancing, IZ*ONE wouldn't have been known as the most synchronized 4th generation group for nothing, right? 😉 I believe there's no such thing as an untalented K-pop idol because, at the end of the day, they're following the company's concept for each comeback or debut, from choreography to line distribution, etc., and they need to master it by the given date. Just like Eunbi said, Hyewon's abilities, both her vocal and performance aspects, have really grown a lot. Her passion for the stage is strong too. It moves me. Those who are close to her know this better than the K-pop stans who lack empathy and judge her based on just a clip. Honestly, I'm glad IZ*ONE disbanded because it gave Hyewon the chance to show how talented she is. She seems happy with her path as an actress now, especially with her hit drama last year, "Boyhood." Please stay tuned for her upcoming dramas "Spirit Fingers" and "Friendly Competition," where she will be starring alongside Lee Hyeri 😊
The real problem is the fact that the industry has slowly drifted from producing music to producing visually pleasing content, an example would be Twice , during their debut they had quirky dances and MVs which featured funny clips like when Sana (I think) couldn’t make her leg reach her head so they just ended up using a clip of her struggling to do so, however in one of their recent comebacks they got rid of all the korean in their songs completely singing in english also delivering an MV being almost only close-up shots of their faces (this isn’t hate, I’m just giving a concrete example). K-pop along with every other music genre is supposed to be a fun experience not a constant feud between fandoms which has become almost impossible to bear with constant drama/allegations/rumors/ etc, let idols breathe and be human for once
Illit members situation is completely DIFFERENT from the hyewon/sohyee storyline. Like you said, fans rooted for hyewon bc she was like a deer in front of the light that gave it all AND showed kindness to struggling japanese members, and from there on we witnessed her grow more n more, illit members moka and wonhee werent showcased like that, wonhee was at some point shoved down our throat with the amount of screentime and praise she got, she was picked by KOREAN voters for her visuals and youthfulness and THAT only. No underdog story whatsover. She ranked relatively high too throughy out the show. As for moka, thats what your idol get when u excessively autotune/post produce them in a pre debut show, ppl will think they got refined skills while they dont. Thats not a hyewon situation either.
I didn't watch RuNext but with RuRigged hashtag going around I thought the girls were actually horrendous at singing but i looked at videos of there performances yes there were better trainees but everyone except Wonhee was loved during the shows running
@@dzrmgkva not on weverse I was in that fan community she had a few fans but she was not loved. Granted there were movements talking about how hating on her is not okay but I remember all the posts against her debut she was strongly opposed. Truly no other trainee got hate like her
@@sliverhalo9286 She had one of the biggest solo stan fanbases, so she was pretty loved, but her haters were really loud and almost as big as her fanbase
@@Hooolltier her fanbase was really not as big as you think it was. Maybe in the Korean community but not internationally shes did not have one of the biggest fanbases internationally at all. The majority of the international fanbase was against her debut in fact
@@sliverhalo9286 She got first in the global one pick event and the two pick they did, it's obvious her solo fanbase was one of the biggest. She was second most voted in China and first in the philipines for that event. Her solo fanbase was big, but it's true that her Korean fanbase was stronger. The majority of the international fanbase was not against her debuting, it was a part of the english speaking community, that's not a majority. Her cbar was one of the biggest
i actually feel like sunoo (iland season 1) was the last true underdog. he is the only original grounder that was able to debut (even if you include both seasons).
I wouldn’t call Sunoo an underdog at least not in the same sense. Sunoo definitely wasn’t the least talented of the entire cast of I-LAND and his main „problem” was his constant struggle to earn the respect of judges, contestants, and fans equally. And also, I think despite him spending most of the Part 1 in Ground, it was pretty clear in Part 2 that he would debut and him entering Enhypen wasn’t such a surprise, at least not for me. Dare I say (my conspiracy theory lmao), that originally they probably weren’t supposed to have the rule „6 + 1” if people still massively voted for him, but the producers added that rule last minute in case people would give up on contestants that were popular most of the time. Had it been any other contestants than Sunoo (maybe also Heeseung or Sunghoon), the last member that would debut would be the rank 7.
Another thing to point out about current kpop stan culture is that it’s so focused on statistics rather than art (which kpop culture has been to some extent as long as I’ve been a part of it but it’s gotten more intense) There are so many idols that have incredible voices who are completely discredited because they don’t have either a super high or super low range. There’s so much focus on what specific notes an idol can hit rather then the execution and overall stability/pitch. The same things exists with rap (but I have noticed this getting a bit better recently) a lot of fans focus on speed/syllables per second over impact, diction, and flow. If you want a group to sound good, they need to be able to have a variety of skills including members with a good alto/tenor/baritone range as well as sopranos/bass members
50% of kpop stans rn are most like bullies, either directly or indirectly. 75% chance they're a bully if they have instagram and twitter stan accounts.
tbh I feel like people don't believe in work ethic or hard work anymore. you can't expect everyone to be perfect since the beginning. surely idols need to be trained to be able to perform, but it's not like you can't improve after debuting. I love seeing idols improving more and more by the time. the fans who are obsessed with perfection make me so annoyed because most of the time they don't even give constructive criticism, they just bully the ones who they don't like.
i mean hyewon was put on the show with no trainee experience and wanting to be an actor rather than idol. she improved a lot during debut era and pd48. but after is when she started getting a lot of hate and she even spoke about it in one of the vlives. the hate really made her not enjoy performing, but during izones last comeback you could see hyewon slowly becoming more confident again.
honestly, idols get so much hate. and usually it’s loud talentless fans trying to point out flaws in people who are light years more skilled than they are. so
One thing I really hate right now in this generation of fandom is their need for perfection. All these "vocal/dance experts" wants to cancel any idol if they are not perfect singer/dancer right out of the gate. They are not allowing these kids to grow and improve. They just love throwing "criticism" without allowing them to have the chance to improve. It's brutal out here. Every group from past generations had that one weak Encore performance and they did receive hate but it wasn't this intense like right now.
for me it’s not that i wanna root for the underdog intentionally just to be like “hey the underdog i stanned from day one is big now” but it’s really admirable to see someone who’s not “the best” work hard and improve and it makes me think of how much more they can improve in the future that mixed with a positive attitude makes for a lovable idol/contestant
What I think happened to us as a community, was hearing amd knowing about cases of very talented trainees not getting the chance to debut in survival shows just because they weren't young or pretty enough. So after experiencing that anger ourselves, specially with the RU next thing, many stans have gotten into the conclusion that being exigent with skills when choosing your pick, is in fact, more important than just bashing your opinion in looks or personality. So I need to disagree with some parts. By first, coming from the perspective I showed, probably as a community we started to feel more empathy for those idols who didn't get the chance to debut just because there were more likable people, so ironically that led us to a general lack of the same emphaty towards all the idols, just because we wanted to make sure the best of the best were dominating the market. Though I definitely disagree as well with criticizing every tiny mistake in every single performance, but I need to say I'm glad we've got into the perspective of skill over likeness. Just like what other user said here, imagine been training for years and years, trying to perfect yourself as much as you can, to be overshadowed by a younger yet less skilled trainee; I think that sucks even more than just "letting go our iconic queen 🥺" when your iconic queen ia under 17 and got a worse stamina than me in middle school trying to finish a marathon.. I don't want to seem like I want every single member to be great at an specific musical skill... but ngl I kinda want that. Tho it'd be hypocritical for me as an orbit to say I strictly put skills over personality or looks, so I completely understand that likeness is crucial to a group dynamic, even if it's not on stage. Hope this new view of talent and skills in kpop lead us eventually to a balance between these two views, so we can create the perfect mixture of talented and charismatic groups on stage, while being likeble enough to feed kpoptwt reactions
This video coming out after Kuanlin said that he only tried Produce to maybe get some money out of it is a fun timing coincidence lol after he got in he seemed to have tried his best tho so adding to the fact he wanted to make money for his mother (as he's the only son + his parents are divorced) it's admirable and i think this similarly applies to Kang Hyewon as well
I agree that overanalyzing performance and punishing people for any mistake is too harsh and unrealistic. It is not possible for someone to do their best every single time and mistakes are inevitable. Even amazing performers have off days here and there and it’s unfair to judge them only based on one bad performance. HOWEVER, people who are genuinely below average and obviously under skilled like Hyewon do not deserve their place in this industry. We should stop rewarding dozens like her with an opportunity to debut for several reasons 1: they’re professionals and we should and need to have standards for them. They’re world class performers, not some random backup singer. To use an analogy, it’s ok for the food at McDonald to taste kind of mid. You don’t expect a typical high school student working in a fast food restaurant to be at the level of Gordon Ramsey or a head chef at a fancy restaurant. However, if you go to a Michelin star restaurant, wouldn’t you be upset if the food tasted like something made by someone who barely knows how stoves work? People want idols to be high level performers and that is not an unreasonable expectation. 2: supporting these significantly less talented yet popular idols mean that spots in debuting group can and will be stolen from those who actually have the skills. For example, Alexa, who can sing and dance much better than some of the girls who won produce, still got eliminated. Or Jiwoo from ru next. You CANNOT tell me wonhee or Moka is more skilled than her. And supporting these idols also signal to companies that charming visuals who are under skilled are worth debuting more than a more talented or trainee who’s less good looking, meaning that the snubbing we see in survival shows are also happening in regular groups. 3: it affects their work. There are many idols who I admire for how well they’ve able to put on a show, like Ateez’s demon line, legendary vocalists like Taeyeon, young k, and Hweeseung (n flying), and people who are just good performers like Siyeon (dreamcatcher) or Hyunjin. That is what I want to see on stage. Those are the people who DESERVE to be on stage. Idols like Hyewon, Sakura, Lucas, Tzuyu, shuhua, etc. just bog things down in a show. Also, having dozen-y idols in groups restricts and decreases the quality of their music. You can’t have songs like many of Gfriend’s title tracks, xdinary Heroes’s Strawberry Cake and Little Things, N Flying’s Flashback and Moonshot and Rooftop when your group’s vocal quality is as low as Le Serrafim or Ill’it’s. Also, good vocals can do a TON to elevate a song. For example, no way snsd’s ballads would be half as good as they are without their amazing vocal line and generally high vocal skills. 4: the entire concept of justice. Why should someone be able to find huge success when they’re objectively not qualified? It’s like someone winning gold at the Olympics even though they lost the game.
“entire concept of justice”?? Entertainment Industry is never merit-based. Kpop isn’t a singing competition and there’s more to being in idol than singing. An idol can release 1 song a year and then still be popular because it was never about talent or music. Fans get attached to the idols specially. Debuting an idol doesn’t solely depends on their skills. Shuhua is there because they want the support of China & Taiwanese market and can you name another idol with her personality? Lucas, Hyewon are there solely for their visuals. They aren’t even promoted competent or talented idols by their company. They are promoted as good looking members for their entire idol life. Sakura is weak at singing but she is literally top 3 dancers in LSFM and she’d be in top 6 of izone in 2024. Tzuyu was always a good dancer and vocalist and she is literally coming out with a debut mini album. If you actually look beyond what tiktok shows you, you would understand that. Not every group’s purpose or goal is to sing vocal heavy songs like Gfriend or XH. Believe it or not but different groups fill different niches and illit songs literally do not need a Lily or Winter to elevate the song. Groups like NMIXX are formed with vocals in mind while LSF or ITZY are performance first and the songs are to compliment their performances. Companies debut these idols because there’s more to offer from them than just singing. And Singing isn’t the only criteria that companies or fans have. I am not saying you need to support every idol and i do not care who you support only vocally-talented groups. If you wanna listen to only “talented” idols, feel free to do so. But saying “untalented” idols shouldn’t be allowed and “stealing” a spot from another person without actually understanding how the entertainment industry works is honestly laughable and so naive.
@@ericccky I don’t believe singing is everything. I also greatly admire idols like RM, Suga, Zico, and 3racha for being good writers and AMAZING rappers. And I do think that dance is important. Idols like Momo or shotaro still have my respect even if they’re not super strong vocally or rap wise. Stage presence is important too which is why I mentioned hyunjin and the demon line.
i think it's okay if a less talented trainee debuted bc they have more "star quality" bc no matter how talented a trainee is if they don't have that they won't attract attention. meanwhile hyewon... idk maybe some got attracted to her pretty face or funny quips? besides that she doesn't have many fan-attracting qualities so idt she should have debuted as an idol.
@@ericccky yes it isn't merit-based but it's still unfair for untalented people to be making millions while talented trainees get their dreams destroyed just cause Tzuyu will have a mini-album doesn't mean she's talented, she won't be the 1st or last untalented person to debut solo
@@kpopnimation Tzuyu is talented. She can sing and dance decently. She was always a decent dancer and she improved in singing. Even in debut Tzuyu had alright vocals.
Hyewon isnt an underdog. She wasnt done wrong, she deserved the critisism and honestly she didnt improve much. Why should trainees who are worse than mediocre debut instead of hardworking idols who trained for many years? Do you want idols who eventually learn something others already can do?
I agree with letting idols who already proved themselves to be talented breathe a little and not be perfect in every performance. like speaking badly on kiofs vocals? insane
honestly this is why i liked a2k so much. because JYP constantly emphasized how he was looking for potential, all of the girls who made it to VCHA grew throughout the show, even the early favorites like Camila
Ricky getting into Zerobaseone is kind of an underdog story, just not a scripted (and casted) one. Like, an actual underdog. They clearly had some people meant for the lineup (Hanbin, Hao, Yujin) and a small pool of people they also wanted (Gunwook, Gyuvin, probably Park Hanbin) and then a bunch they were fine with (Matthew, Kim Taerae, Jiwoong, Keita, Jay and 10ish others). They did not want Ricky. One chinese member is more than enough, even though Ricky could pull off being vaguely american. So the editing did him no favours, he lowkey had an evil edit in the first few weeks, and he was ranked low in the initial assessment. He had very little screentime, but got popular based on his looks, a few iconic lines, memes, and general sex appeal. It's not the story of improvement you are talking about in the video, his skill level has been fairly consistent, but in terms of surprises that makes watching a survival show worth it I'd say it qualifies.
Not sure if he was one tho, mnet def didn't want him but his final placement was not really a surprise cuz his popularity growth was steady + chinese fans are LOYAL, so they did all they could to make him debut. mentors also did acknoledged his skills
You skirted around the issue that the formation of IZ*ONE was rigged. In a good way because they were a very balanced group, but not a clear indication of voter preferences.
Well no, I mean back then we had Qri and Boram from T-ara, Uee and Jooyeon from After School, Noeul and Yoonhye from Rainbow, Jihyun from 4Minute, etc. The "Hyewon" archetype of idols has existed for a long time in Kpop, second gen was full of them. 2nd gen was fun because of how imperfect it was. 4th and 5th gen fans will never understand this because yall care so much about perfection.
@@hyewonderfull I stan many 2nd gen groups but, differently from you, I celebrate the talented members of the group not the untalented ones. What I meant with my comment is that we don't have idols like Luna, Hyolyn and Taemin anymore. It's a good thing that people like the idols you mentioned aren't celebrated anymore, we need more talent.
@@Nini_K2 nope,in dance Hyewon could really keep up,and she never looked messy in iz*one coregraphies,mind you wich are really hard both for timing and skill,meanwhile in vocal she has really improved a lot,you can really appreciate it in her winter album on “winter poem” “snowy day” and “first love letter.Maybe not high note and whistle note level,but she definitely controls her voice well and has a really nice tone that adds sweetness to her songs
I think it is not about being perfect, but how is their attitude manage criticism. I don't know about Hyewon since I didn't watch the broadcast, but surely Sohye and Kwon Hyunbin (Pd101 s2), manage criticsm with skill upgrade.
Ive never understood the appeal of Hyewon - not because of the lack of talent but of the lack of charisma (i can deal with a bad singer or dancer who is entertaining or with an interesting stage presence - to me kpop is spectacle first and music second). But she always looks either 1) like a deer in the headlight, as if widening her eyes and staring as much as possible would appease the audience’s expectations. I find it stressful to watch 2) sleep walking or making a mental grocery list 2) like she’s just awoke on stage after a brain reset and has to pretend everything is alright as she’s silently lost and freaking out
I definitely agree with what you had to say about K-pop fans scrutinizing every little thing about live performances nowadays. I don’t know why these netizens always send hate comments and DEATH THREATS to these idols when they make one mistake, it really pisses me off. Like why can’t we just listen to the music in peace without attacking anyone 😭😭😭 Great video overall! :) 👍
![The world’s first ever OOO flirting? BAEKHYUN & YENA [SELF-ON KODE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TRBa61c5tRg/mqdefault.jpg)
riggory of produce 48 tba?
We want riggery of Universe Ticket instead
Please do r u next
Yes please! I had such a hard time watching that show (despite loving izone) cuz of the clear bias the judges/producers had.
I need her idgaf but still tries her best attitude 😭
like thats mother omfg
Basically the attitude of all HELLBAYAH team members 🤣🤣 All jokes aside I can see Hyewon and Sakura's skills are on similar level, but Sakura enjoys performing more than Hyewon, so she has more stage presence and still pursues the idol career with Le sserafim. While it was just anxiety for Hyewon, i think she made a nice decision not being an idol anymore.
@@LouisSaver2012 WERE ON. Saying that Sakura's dance skills are on similar level as Hyewon will be untrue.
I mean i wish i kinda had that reputation, being just ok, Hyewon - the world okayest idol
Okhyewon.
okay yet iconic...goals
@@monkiesbanana321LOL
If you watched izone's behind the scenes, you'd know she tried her best and never stood out the wrong way in the group despite being surrounded by really talented members
no fs i didnt mean in group performances i just meant when u analyzed them on an individual basis
i think pitch correction and lip syncing are hurting idols’ reputations rather than helping them. when someone who consistently sings live misses a line or has a voice crack, you can tell that it was just a bad day. when someone has never sung live and the one time they do they’re straining, they can’t stay on beat, they’re off key, you do start to wonder why they have a career as a, you know, singer
100% agree
okay why is this such a good point omfg i wish i said that.. u should make commentary videos
Haewon from NMIXX have several voice crack, but no one accuse her as bad vocalist. Because Haewon has good vocal technique and NMIXX's HATERS are so small.
@@anistardiand because NMIXX is constantly singing live and displaying their vocal prowess whenever possible
@@anistardi That's because Nmixx is an ace group. She might've voice crack but we all know she is skilled. Even Nmixx haters would agree that Nmixx's vocal skill is just superior along with Aespa.
Oh Kang rap god Hyewon you will always be remembered
I don't understand why they didn't give her more lines to rap
SNACK IN YOUR AREA
kim sohye walked so that kang hyewon could run
hyewon is probably the only 'dozen' loved by everyone, literally I've never seen hyewon get hate. She's an iconic I'm not even saying this because she was my bias. She literally gave no f and people loved her for that.
I don’t like that dozen. Hyewon took a place that someone more deserving could have got.
Hyewon was never rigged though, she was already in the final line up because a lot of people liked her
@@rendog7026 never said she was and no she didn't
@@vixxexo6855 lol you're ganna hate her for people voting for her? You probably should have vote for someone instead of yapping. Everyone loved hyewon
@@vixxexo6855 Hyewon literally earned her spot through votes, there are 2 people who 'took a place' and she isn't one of them. Hyewon had one of the best storylines in the show so people liked her.
Hyewon ended up being one of my Izone biases bc of her personality, I adore her so much and I felt like she was the most relatable one (to me)
right cuz shes a sweetheart
I think about their Boombayah performance often and I never watched the show
Hyewon said "someone has to do the lines and that'll be me ig" and honestly more than iconic bc how can people not love the look in her eyes like "pls let this be over" 😅😅
This obssesion with perfection is making kpop unsufferable tbh suddenly everybody is an vocal/dance expert which means they can say the most vile things to idols when they dont perform well
Kpop idols are supposed to be able to atleast hold a note and dance decently. If they can’t do that, then they should never debut. We need talented idols back.
Sometimes they expect too much. Like people even called Wendy bad singer when she covered Beyonce. But some idols are weak like Hyewon, Lesserafim, Illit and NJ. They have to debut someone who has some skills, but now many idols with no skills debuts.
I think there’s a certain standard that every idol should meet when it comes to singing, dancing, performing etc. Obviously each member is going to shine more in different areas but I think that there should be a certain level of competency in dancing and singing displayed in order for someone to debut. If only the K-pop industry wasn’t SO heavily fixated on visuals, this wouldn’t be so much of an issue.
I’m not excusing any sort of harassment though, that’s just gross
@@vixxexo6855who said todays idols aren’t talented? Did you even watch the video
The obsession with perfection is getting too much. I remembered during In Bloom's encore they criticize Zhanghao's vocals when he was literally crying at that time. Like how did you expect him to sound perfect while crying?
Idols can proof countless times that they can sing live but if they make a small mistake in an encore they suddenly forget about all the good performances. Even good western vocalists have made mistakes while singing live
WE LOVE U ZHANG HAO
Agree. Too many hates from kpop fans. They have mental illness.
he's the most stable live singer of zb1 though proven by their the show feel the pop encore and japan encore, he's the only one with consistency.. thus, he deserves more lines esp. challenging lines as a main vocalist.. I firmly believe that kpop is not charity, let the singers sing, let the rappers rap, don't expect a non-vocalist to sing well esp. during a live stage
@@viefam004 yes I think he's the most stable but I think Gunwook and Taerae are also stable (some live performances when Taerae is doing all those high notes)
Craziest part is Zhang Hao is one of the best 5th gen male vocalists rn. He’s so talented and doesn’t deserve that!
as a hyewon bias, i definitely agree with most of what you said in the video. since the first episode of pd48 until her last performance as iz*one the improvement was extremely apparent. her dancing, even though not on Lee chaeyeon level, was never lacking in any performance, and she never stood out in a bad way in any act they did. her vocals have also improved immensely, and her songs post-iz prove it, she might not be a main vocal, but her tone and technique are beautiful. and ofc her rap was very fun to watch. the lack of underdog stories in recent kpop is very sad, cause going through the journey of seeing an idol improve and get better over theur career until they reach their goal is very beautiful and gives people (at least me) power to believe if you work hard enough you can reach what you want.
what the fuck is beautiful technique?
her tone is sooooo f-ing good idc what anyone else says
I’m hoping wonhee will get the same love hyewon did one day, she’s such a qtpie & has already improved since run
I always looked up to Hyewon. She is intelligent af! The way she used her love and passion for Japanese culture and anime to gain popularity was incredible! Everyone around her always speaks highly about her. She always tried her best, her hard work spoke for her because yes, she never was the best but you can tell she worked hard BTS and she was improving.
She spoke multiple languages, was charming and funny, was selfless, was hardworking, plays multiple instruments, is an actress, is a model.
Basically,I think she is an incredible person, full of positive qualities, and to me that is the most important thing to be as an idol and as a person!
You're so right about the lack of empathy. It's honestly sucking the fun out of K-Pop for me. It's not fun to follow your favorite group when the whole discourse about them is dominated by an endless hate train. No empathy whatsoever.
NONE. ZILCH.
real
shit went south right when pandemic hit now we have so many crazies in the fandoms
kpop fandom space was a better place before 2020 and I can’t believe I’m saying that lol Nowadays, there are too many solo stans in the fandoms and other self qualified talent coaches who are ready to jump on an idol once the idol does something bad.
@@ericccky same like not to sound like a hag but the pandemic overflowed not only kpop fandoms but all other ones into a cesspit filled with fans who just know how to piss people off nothing nice ever comes outta them ://
After 2020, some fandoms act more like cults than as fans
right, and this doesn't apply to just kpop i fear
As someone who's into kpop since 2nd Gen, the Fandom always got a few bad apples and annoying fans but can't believe I say this, it's literally WORSE rn especially like you said after c*vid, it's just goes downhill. Like the fact I can see hate comment literally in any live videos rn it's crazy, in 2nd Gen era we used to search for bad comments and pretty much trying to drown them with more appreciation comments etc but now it's even get pretty hard to do that either
I dont know where this "they dont deserve their carrer if they arent perfect" is coming from, as if music industry was ever fair to begin with and whoever was the best is the most success
No one is asking for perfection. A few bad performances can be excused because idols are humans. However, when you prove over and over that you’re lagging behind everyone else and struggle to DO YOUR FREAKING JOB properly, you really don’t deserve to be chosen by the company to debut.
@@kpopnimation i get that but thats not how the music industry works because by that Standard many Western Acts that are popular also would not be as big as they are, like there are so many people succesful that dont do their job that well to begin with tbh
@@kpopnimationthere is nothing you can do about it the entertainment industry has never been only about talent. Their job is to entertain people and if they have fans then theyve done their job
@@kpopnimation i think you missed the point💀
The art of dozenism has been lost 😔😔
Dozens are bad for music.
They have no place in this industry, or at least they shouldn’t.
Exactly now that everyone is perfect, that illusion of seeing someone improve more and more was lost.
and we cheered!!!!
I feel like it worked in Iz*one though. Sure, individually she mightn't have been great, but in terms of the whole group, she blended in really well and it wasn't noticeable during performances. In terms of group dynamics, she was definitely vital in making the mood, and variety shows. Literally couldn't imagine Iz*one without her.
kang hyewon is honestly iconic lol. she always tried her best and i think she did pretty well. she fulfilled her job in the group perfectly. she's not soloist material and thats fine cuz not everyene is. im glad she's into acting now, shes good at acting!
I know she didn't debut in the show she was competing in but, Yooyeon of TripleS is literally the same. She was literally one of the members on the show people would call "untalented" yet she debuted in TripleS and is now one of the most popular members of that group.
The producers of that show really didn't want Yooyeon to debut, but she ended up benefiting from that, so I'm happy for her
OMG YAYYYY a video about my ult bias in kpop🎉🎉🎉 she became my ult MAINLY BECAUSE I relate to her so much, but also because she just looks so innocent like how could you ever hate her AND because her personality is not only screaming sweetheart but she also seems funny as hell!!!! I just LOVE her
Kang Hyewon you will always be iconic
At least 1 example I can think of is Ayaka from Nizi project, who mostly made it into the group mostly because of her interesting personality, steady improvements and visuals.
I don't think the majority of kpop fans actually have very high expectations for the idols. Don't miss your lines, stay on pitch, follow the beat, and don't strain so much that it sounds painful. These are the kinds of basic skills you can learn within a few vocal lessons.
So when an idol who consistently does these has a voice crack? Some people will criticise them, sure, but most netizens stick up for them. A good example would be Haewon or Chaehyun.
But if we only ever hear an idol lipsync or sing with pitch correction, and the one time they sing live, they can't stay on pitch? If they can't do their job, why do they have it?
I listen to kpop because I enjoy the music and performances. I don't need underdogs, I need singers and performers who make good art.
I'd also like to highlight - not every member needs to be perfect at everything. In every skill category, a group should have more competent members than incompetent. Momo is not an amazing singer, but other members are, and most of the members are good singers. So it's alright that she's not an amazing singer, that's not what her role in the group is.
In a lot of the groups that have received criticism for their vocals, most of the members aren't competent vocalists, and the groups are small, leading the incompetent vocalists to get lines they can't handle.
The reasonable ones are, but there are people who hate just for the sake of it
@@ruu406 But those will always find a reason to hate, so I wouldn't take them as an example of the larger kpop culture.
"most" members of twice aren't good singers, they literaly have a 3 member vocal line
same as dahyun
@@abc_jv_xyzyeah but sana mina tzuyu and arguably chaeyoung can at least sound like the CD, nothing groundbreaking but not ear bleeding either
kiof receiving hate for their vocals is insane. i think that if a group has proven their vocal abilities, mistakes should be regarded as they are- mistakes. hating on normal human mistakes w/o consequence is rather myopic imo
on the other hand if a group mostly sounds bad i think we can assume that thats their current base skill level, in which case im not surprised if ppl want to publicly voice their disappointment and disapproval
My question is why do they even care? If they aren’t supporting these idols, why do they want the “publicly voice their disappointment and disapproval”? If you think twice, these idols having low skills doesn’t affect them at all since they aren’t a fan or they aren’t supporting financially or anything.
It’s jealousy and insecurity towards other successful groups who they deem are untalented and thus seeing them succeed, makes them irrationally upset that they started bullying them online.
fr they've proven over and over again how good they are, its actually ridiculous people came for them over ONE stage 😭😭. Also the stage wasn't that great, but it wasn't terrible!
Kiss of life have actually made many mistakes live at festivals. Personally I don’t care. But people go from love to hate extremely quickly.
IZ*ONE is my all-time favourite group and I adore Hyewon
You're so right about the sensitivity. Recently Wendy did a not so great cover on stage and people really said that she wasn't all that good and was overrated as a Vocalist. WENDY!
The thing is Hyewon improved over time. She never stood out in a bad way and always managed to keep up. You gotta commend her for it
the thing with her is that she was only noticably "bad" when you looked at a fancam of her, and even then she was an okay performer most of the time. she never stuck out as notoriously bad, she was never raising the wrong roof (oops). there was a point at which she was called chaeyeon's shadow by her fellow members because she was behind chaeyeon during the lver dancebreak and she kept up well to the point you couldn't tell she was there.
it's like she was the bridge reminding us idols were in fact humans
Honestly i don't agree with everything you say. Like, i also like seeing underdog stories, see trainee with positive mindset trying their best and working very hard and improving. BUT, everyone work hard in this industry. The problem with survival show is that they only show what they want to show. These trainees who are already almost ready to debut are also working very hard and since a biggest amount of time. It's even more difficult for them because after training for 4 years for exemple, they start to have problems with their trainee contract, they have more and more debt and they are becoming older and they face more pressure, more problems to debut. So they deserve as much debuting than a contestant who is painting as hardworking, because they are hardworking it just doesnt show as much.
So i understand why some people find this "underdog" story appealing but personnaly i think it's a problem because:
1- 2 persons are fighting for the same thing but people will choose the person who don't deserve it the most(because this person with the underdog story has the passion+ work but the other have passion+work+skills)
2- this is also a problem for the person chosen instead of the most talented ones because she will be hated and her talents will never be really recognize. Like, people will say"oh she have improved so much" and for me it's like a backhanded compliment.
3- if the group disband(if the group is temporary) the person won't have many choices: they are not probably a full package who can go solo(because they were relying on others to hide their weaknesses) so they are becoming a model or an actress even if they don't really have a possiblity of becoming famous or they are ending their carrer. Maybe if they didn't debut too early they would have been able to debut solo or redebut in another group.
But i agree, not everyone has to be perfect. There is no problem in voting for someone you like because of his mindset but, just for me, i'vote for less talented contestant only if i'm sure every other talented trainee will debut. And it's rarely the case because there is so much talented trainee(for exemple in r u next i'could have voted for wonhee if i was sure yunah, minju, himena, chanelle, jiwoo, jeongeun, minju, younseo, iroha and jihyun would debut but it's not the case because the final lineup is only 6 member. So i didn't voted for her, even if i like her.)
The last to successfully pull off the Sohye technique
Ngl i think hyewon showed us that as long as you remain determined and positive for improvement, you'll still be remarkable to someone out there!! Hope hyewon is doing well on whatever zhe's currently doing
she’s been booked with acting gigs afaik! and she just had some fanmeets earlier this year, i say she’s doing well for herself ^^
Smaller groups don't allow for Hyewons. All the members have to pull their weight in a 4-5 member group.
true, most groups are smaller nowadays
what's crazy to me is that everybody is seemingly watching encore stages and performances of idols they.... hate and think are untalented. like why are you watching their stages then if you think these idols don't have talent 😭 why not spend time actually watching videos of your faves
This is why i loved 2nd gen groups so much. They were so messy, unorganized and NOT perfect. That's what made it fun! That's why I love Hyewon so much and consider her as my favorite 4th gen idol, because she has so much 2nd Gen energy comparable to Qri from T-ara, Uee from After School or Noeul from Rainbow etc. Back then most girl groups had one or two Hyewon's and they were always loved by everyone.
For me, the worst thing about k-pop fans are they still can't tell apart what being a singer and what being an idol is. Hyewon is a perfect example, she is not the most talented idol, her dancing skills especially are very low, but she is my bias in Iz*one, because of her storyline in the Produce and her sincere personality, she is one of the most non-filtered idols I've seen and I just love it.
For me, being an Idol is more about how we connect with them, one's ideal idol is talented af, other's ideal idol is jusr pretty af with an enjoyable personality (like Hyewon). While I understand that it can be frustrating that some idols worked so hard to be decent and debut while others debuted not being as good, I still think being an idol is more than just being a singer or a skilled musician.
Hyewon was okay because she was in a big group with members who could cover what she was lacking but groups debuting nowadays have far fewer members so the standard is higher
I never hated on Hyewon because, firstly, I will never send idols hate at all. If I don't like someone, I just move on. Secondly, she had that something you can't hate about her. She was relatable, I literally saw myself in her if I ever debuted in a kpop group. She was really a support member who served her purpose. She kept up with everyone despite not having outstanding skills, and I know for sure keeping up with the level of talent IZ*ONE had must've been hard as heck.
Someone brought up the point that she basically took the spot of someone who could've been more talented and deserving of it. While I agree to some extent, I think the reason she made it in is the relatability I mentioned before. I don't know if she was rigged in or not, being honest, but I feel like whoever wanted her in the lineup saw this to some extent. Plus, she's pretty, and of course, kpop groups have to have visuals. While I don't love the idea, it is how the industry works.
Okay, was watching the "leftovers" beat the team that was filled with strong members exciting? Sure! But watching a team full of strong competitors just get eliminated becouse the opposing team "tried hard" even though they were lacking was not & I genuinely stopped watching the show after that.
Even though I don't agree with jumping on idols for making one mistake, I do like that the standards seem to have gotten better.
Exactly!!!!
What.... The members of the other team got hate after that episode because of their attitude. They literally chose the leftover team as opponents because they said it would be easy for them to win. Idk if it was an evil edit but the condescending attitude didn't sit well with people, especially in contrast with other teams who chose to go head to head with stronger peers (I think it was An Yujin's team, if I remember correctly). It was no surprise that they got eliminated during the next voting.
imo hyewon was never given much during her time in iz*one. like she got 2 seconds in lines every comeback and never had much center spotlight during performances. she was given some moments when they debuted and during violeta era but then each era onwards it seemed like the other “dozens” in iz*one (i hate to say it but sakura and minju, still love them sosowowowoos much) were given more opportunities to show off their improvement and hyewon was kinda off in the shadows. like it was clear that minju seemed like a second center in panorama. the moments where hyewon shined were on variety shows and their youtube content where she showed off her personality and such which made her an enjoyable person to watch.
i'm glad she's an actress now, it's just a bad fit for her to be an idol. people like her personality but sadly that is not enough to be a decent idol. she can't even smile while performing.
This is it! I don’t mind folks becoming idols becoming so due to popularity or their visuals BUT if their skills do not cut it; I respect people so much if they focus on acting if they have a knack for it more than their singing instead of trying to do both.
8:07 wonhee DEFINETLY debuted too early… girl wasn’t even a trainee for a month before RUNext. Also despite how talented Jiwoo was, the judges hated her and she pretty much had that underdog-to-top story (starting in the ‘low’ group somehow and working her way to the ‘high’ group) but the editors and Korean fans preferred wonhee. I still don’t see why wonhee was SOOOO dominant in the Korean votes. Yes she pretty and talented, but it was clear that even just a year or 2 of training would’ve made her so much better of an idol. But it was also clear hybe already had the concept and it made the line up and who was edited well in the show make much more sense. They never wanted people like Jiwoo and Chanelle with the pre planned cuter concept so they boosted people like wonhee
I’m pretty sure Wonhee trained for a few months border the show, other than that I totally agree. I still don’t get why she was chosen. Expect vocals which is mid, she doesn’t have much. She lacked stage presence and half of the performances she looked scared. Wonhee has improved but I wish she wasn’t the centre bc all the other member are way better than her tbh. Maybe Minju should’ve been the centre.i feel like only Koreans fans got to vote at the end cuz they wanted Wonhee, instead of constants like Jiwoo.
@@queenhiyyih2759I'm pretty sure it was less than a month, in the first episode she didn't even an initial ranking bc she had never done a monthly evaluation
If you want to know why Wonhee is popular with korean fans, i recommend you to watch her pocari sweat commercial. It really shows all of her charms that korean fans like. A child-actress like visuals with girl-next-door vibes and RUNext show also showed a lot of her personality for fans to connect. Her actual skills are just passable but it's the visuals and the personality that made her fans like her. HYBE really wanted her, that's for sure. They wouldn't put a trainee who they scouted at a random bus stop a few week before the show started unless they really believed she'd attract a lot of fans.
I get why Jiwoo and Chanelle aren't chosen but I wonder if they had Jeemin or Jeongeun who fits illit concept, will the backlash be smaller? It will definitely raise the skill level higher but i guess we will never know why HYBE chose the current members.
Wonhee literally looks like a baby doll. I would guess that she was chosen because their baby-cute concept needed a baby-cute center, and they didn't care to spend the additional time or money training her when the only role they needed her to fill in the group was being adorable. That makes me a little mad because trainees pay companies through the nose to prepare them properly, but that's just how it is (well...at least for HYBE, which has a track record of not training their idols well).
@@queenhiyyih2759 no she was a month and seoyeon was 3 weeks
10:28 I nearly cried when you said that Bahiyyih has been capable since the beginning & was never a dozen - she was just non-existent in the show bc MNet didn't want her in the final lineup. As her fan, that has been the root cause of so much of her hate & is the single biggest argument I have with the many who hate on her, so to hear you say that.... God I felt so validated. It's nice to know there are some CZcamsr's with both a brain and a heart - bc so many trash on her just bc it's what gets them the most views/engagement.
I agree so much with you
omg planet minjae upload we all cheered🥳
Hyewon will always be famous and my ult bias
i disagree with the illit encore outrage, i think the girls have debuted too early in their lives, their voices haven't had time to develop properly yet and they haven't had time to gain more vocal lessons from the company. and the reason why fans these days expect perfection is because idols nowadays portray themselves as perfect more than any other previous generation. i miss the days when mamamoo were criticised for having a "too explicit" performance with gogobebe and they had their next comeback with waggy, where they sang about puppies and kitties, literally making a statement to the whole industry that they were in their late twenties and too old for such concepts. i could never imagine idols do such a thing today, they would have gotten dragged on tiktok and twitter
I still remember when she tried her best during the dance break for La vie en rose for that mama perf, ans didn't even get seeeen??
11:10
another thing that makes me sooo angry is when people obsess over groups very first win encore stages !!
like i mean with illit,, on their first one that sparked a whole bunch of hate those girls were crying and excited for their first win (other ppl this happened to as well is triples and kiof, id say kiof was more excited while triples was more emotional tho), like ofc they wont sound perfect their gonna be grateful they got their first win !!!
Yeah specially with groups who get their fist win week or so after their debut. They're newbies at their job, and while they train you can't train for the real thing, being in front of so many people with their full attention on you makes anyone nervous at the start. I can't stand a lot of videos of idols "improving" compared to their previous stages when it's just them getting used and losing the anxiety and nerves with time.
Fans will say "it's their jon" but everyone messes up at their job when they just start, and everyone has off days. But they don't treat idols like humans.
I remember Kim Yooyeon from TripleS being quite similar to Hyewon. When she participated in My Teenage Girl, she was known for her lacking vocals and dance skills, however she had a massive fan base and high online vote due to her personailty, background, and visual. She had a very perservering attitude on the show and tried her best to improve her skills since she had no training background in dance or singing.
The wonhee situation bothers me because of the supposed favoritism around her, and how it seems that the company stylized the group to be around her… idk about her as a human it’s just how the company is handling it that’s annoying. It’s the same way I felt with Ives debut, I have nothing against wonyoung, but the way the company seemed to favor her first over other members was annoying.
A2K is the best new survival show rn as majority of the girls were lacking in every field and we saw their growth in each episode and then see how good they are now as Vcha and better than some groups
I agree. Niziu 2 also had a few similar moments.
there really wasn't an underdog storyline though nor live voting it wasn't so much a survial show more like a documentary following their journey to debut
this comment section didnt pass the vibe check ://
Wanting kpop idols to sing well during encores isn’t expecting perfection. It’s part of their job to know how to sing, if they sound shaky, strained and miss a beat while standing still how am I supposed to believe they can do it while dancing? The bare minimum isn’t being done.
If every encore is bad then it is because their skills is bad. But when just one bad encore is okey, since it could be bad day. Even Kiss of life had one bad encore, they probably are tired. While Illit and Lesserafim had many bad encores. So you should watch more then one encore to judge.
That is valid, but it is extremely unrealistic to expect idols to give their 100% 24/7 given how mentally and physically draining the job of an idol is
@@mouche563no one expects perfection every time. Even people like Wendy has rough days. But when your “bad” days seem to be the majority, you don’t deserve to be an idol.
@@kpopnimation You guys most certainly do expect perfection every time and it's insane. You guys will take a handful of poor performances and then let it represent the entire group. It only seems like the "majority" to you because you just focus on hateful tiktoks and yt shorts. Your literal account has one short and it's a negative one LOL. Lesserafim for example were praised for their amazing dance performances up until this year for whatever reason and now you guys are pretending like they've been bad this entire time, cherry picking clips as if that represents them as a whole. You're either a new kpop stan or don't even stan these groups, idk why you'd speak on anyone 'deserving' to debut when you're this clueless.
@@wavzone keyword: DANCE performance. They’ve always been underwhelming vocally. Also, show me one performance with zero autotune, backtrack, etc. where all five members sounded good. And not just “good” as in “better than an average joe in karaoke”. “Good” as in “they actually sound like professionals”.
But that’s not even the point. The bottom line is, you should not be as truly underbaked as a performer as Hyewon or Guanlin and still get to be in this industry. A skilled person like Lily or Taemin being a bit off for a few performances? That’s fine. Being CONSISTENLY a weak link is not.
I agree with the lack of empathy among K-pop stans nowadays. On TikTok, they often use clips of Hyewon from her PD48 days to make fun of her, closing their eyes to her achievements in IZ*ONE and post-IZ*ONE. If you listen to her solo songs post-IZ*ONE, you'll notice she has a beautiful voice, even though she didn't have the chance to showcase it earlier.
As for her dancing, IZ*ONE wouldn't have been known as the most synchronized 4th generation group for nothing, right? 😉 I believe there's no such thing as an untalented K-pop idol because, at the end of the day, they're following the company's concept for each comeback or debut, from choreography to line distribution, etc., and they need to master it by the given date.
Just like Eunbi said, Hyewon's abilities, both her vocal and performance aspects, have really grown a lot. Her passion for the stage is strong too. It moves me. Those who are close to her know this better than the K-pop stans who lack empathy and judge her based on just a clip.
Honestly, I'm glad IZ*ONE disbanded because it gave Hyewon the chance to show how talented she is. She seems happy with her path as an actress now, especially with her hit drama last year, "Boyhood." Please stay tuned for her upcoming dramas "Spirit Fingers" and "Friendly Competition," where she will be starring alongside Lee Hyeri 😊
The real problem is the fact that the industry has slowly drifted from producing music to producing visually pleasing content, an example would be Twice , during their debut they had quirky dances and MVs which featured funny clips like when Sana (I think) couldn’t make her leg reach her head so they just ended up using a clip of her struggling to do so, however in one of their recent comebacks they got rid of all the korean in their songs completely singing in english also delivering an MV being almost only close-up shots of their faces (this isn’t hate, I’m just giving a concrete example). K-pop along with every other music genre is supposed to be a fun experience not a constant feud between fandoms which has become almost impossible to bear with constant drama/allegations/rumors/ etc, let idols breathe and be human for once
Illit members situation is completely DIFFERENT from the hyewon/sohyee storyline. Like you said, fans rooted for hyewon bc she was like a deer in front of the light that gave it all AND showed kindness to struggling japanese members, and from there on we witnessed her grow more n more, illit members moka and wonhee werent showcased like that, wonhee was at some point shoved down our throat with the amount of screentime and praise she got, she was picked by KOREAN voters for her visuals and youthfulness and THAT only. No underdog story whatsover. She ranked relatively high too throughy out the show. As for moka, thats what your idol get when u excessively autotune/post produce them in a pre debut show, ppl will think they got refined skills while they dont. Thats not a hyewon situation either.
i dont get the comparison to iland/enhypen like it was the best lineup if you watch from the beginning
Its not the lineup its the survival show they were criticising
@@lullets5083 the show was indeed traumatizing
I didn't watch RuNext but with RuRigged hashtag going around I thought the girls were actually horrendous at singing but i looked at videos of there performances yes there were better trainees but everyone except Wonhee was loved during the shows running
Even Wonhee was loved(at least by judges), she's not that bad, just young and pushed too hard in our face by editors of runext
@@dzrmgkva not on weverse I was in that fan community she had a few fans but she was not loved. Granted there were movements talking about how hating on her is not okay but I remember all the posts against her debut she was strongly opposed. Truly no other trainee got hate like her
@@sliverhalo9286 She had one of the biggest solo stan fanbases, so she was pretty loved, but her haters were really loud and almost as big as her fanbase
@@Hooolltier her fanbase was really not as big as you think it was. Maybe in the Korean community but not internationally shes did not have one of the biggest fanbases internationally at all. The majority of the international fanbase was against her debut in fact
@@sliverhalo9286 She got first in the global one pick event and the two pick they did, it's obvious her solo fanbase was one of the biggest. She was second most voted in China and first in the philipines for that event. Her solo fanbase was big, but it's true that her Korean fanbase was stronger. The majority of the international fanbase was not against her debuting, it was a part of the english speaking community, that's not a majority. Her cbar was one of the biggest
I genuinely want to know if we should prioritize a good show or the good end result of the show?
good end result
She invented :
👁️👁️
👄
I saw the article about kiof getting criticism for their encore and I skipped it because I know that they’re good singers and knetz and just annoying
i actually feel like sunoo (iland season 1) was the last true underdog. he is the only original grounder that was able to debut (even if you include both seasons).
I wouldn’t call Sunoo an underdog at least not in the same sense. Sunoo definitely wasn’t the least talented of the entire cast of I-LAND and his main „problem” was his constant struggle to earn the respect of judges, contestants, and fans equally. And also, I think despite him spending most of the Part 1 in Ground, it was pretty clear in Part 2 that he would debut and him entering Enhypen wasn’t such a surprise, at least not for me. Dare I say (my conspiracy theory lmao), that originally they probably weren’t supposed to have the rule „6 + 1” if people still massively voted for him, but the producers added that rule last minute in case people would give up on contestants that were popular most of the time. Had it been any other contestants than Sunoo (maybe also Heeseung or Sunghoon), the last member that would debut would be the rank 7.
Sunoo was popular with the fans, only the producers could not see his talents. I am glad Sunoo made it in the end.
honestly??? hyewon is like the most "un-idol" idol ever and that's what makes her so charming and loveable and y'all can never make me hate her
Another thing to point out about current kpop stan culture is that it’s so focused on statistics rather than art (which kpop culture has been to some extent as long as I’ve been a part of it but it’s gotten more intense)
There are so many idols that have incredible voices who are completely discredited because they don’t have either a super high or super low range. There’s so much focus on what specific notes an idol can hit rather then the execution and overall stability/pitch.
The same things exists with rap (but I have noticed this getting a bit better recently) a lot of fans focus on speed/syllables per second over impact, diction, and flow. If you want a group to sound good, they need to be able to have a variety of skills including members with a good alto/tenor/baritone range as well as sopranos/bass members
People complain about the lack of skills on idols but they support people with the talent level of hyewon... I mean, what do they expect then? 🤷♀🤷♀
we support people who show us that you can improve and you are not always going to be perfect. human and real people like us.
@@jorgeousssss and how did Hyewon improve actually?
@@jorgeousssssare we still talking about hyewon?
Its different people with different standards.
Oh the queen kang hyewon is mentioned ✊👑
i see hyewon i click
minju yunah and iroha deserved a better group
Oh my Kwangbae… thanks for doing a series on her!
50% of kpop stans rn are most like bullies, either directly or indirectly. 75% chance they're a bully if they have instagram and twitter stan accounts.
tbh I feel like people don't believe in work ethic or hard work anymore. you can't expect everyone to be perfect since the beginning. surely idols need to be trained to be able to perform, but it's not like you can't improve after debuting. I love seeing idols improving more and more by the time. the fans who are obsessed with perfection make me so annoyed because most of the time they don't even give constructive criticism, they just bully the ones who they don't like.
He says hyewon is the last of her kind… but Wonhee won the whole show
And thats a good thing
3:48 if she was determinated to improve, then why didn't she do that?
i mean hyewon was put on the show with no trainee experience and wanting to be an actor rather than idol. she improved a lot during debut era and pd48. but after is when she started getting a lot of hate and she even spoke about it in one of the vlives. the hate really made her not enjoy performing, but during izones last comeback you could see hyewon slowly becoming more confident again.
honestly, idols get so much hate. and usually it’s loud talentless fans trying to point out flaws in people who are light years more skilled than they are. so
I will forever love and defend kang hyewon. She is truly one of a kind tbh
We need hyewon...
One thing I really hate right now in this generation of fandom is their need for perfection. All these "vocal/dance experts" wants to cancel any idol if they are not perfect singer/dancer right out of the gate. They are not allowing these kids to grow and improve. They just love throwing "criticism" without allowing them to have the chance to improve.
It's brutal out here.
Every group from past generations had that one weak Encore performance and they did receive hate but it wasn't this intense like right now.
wonhee trained for less than a MONTH before RUNext 😭😭
True. She's an angel. Unparalleled visual 🤩
Proud of my bias💜💜💜
for me it’s not that i wanna root for the underdog intentionally just to be like “hey the underdog i stanned from day one is big now” but it’s really admirable to see someone who’s not “the best” work hard and improve and it makes me think of how much more they can improve in the future that mixed with a positive attitude makes for a lovable idol/contestant
What I think happened to us as a community, was hearing amd knowing about cases of very talented trainees not getting the chance to debut in survival shows just because they weren't young or pretty enough. So after experiencing that anger ourselves, specially with the RU next thing, many stans have gotten into the conclusion that being exigent with skills when choosing your pick, is in fact, more important than just bashing your opinion in looks or personality.
So I need to disagree with some parts. By first, coming from the perspective I showed, probably as a community we started to feel more empathy for those idols who didn't get the chance to debut just because there were more likable people, so ironically that led us to a general lack of the same emphaty towards all the idols, just because we wanted to make sure the best of the best were dominating the market. Though I definitely disagree as well with criticizing every tiny mistake in every single performance, but I need to say I'm glad we've got into the perspective of skill over likeness. Just like what other user said here, imagine been training for years and years, trying to perfect yourself as much as you can, to be overshadowed by a younger yet less skilled trainee; I think that sucks even more than just "letting go our iconic queen 🥺" when your iconic queen ia under 17 and got a worse stamina than me in middle school trying to finish a marathon..
I don't want to seem like I want every single member to be great at an specific musical skill... but ngl I kinda want that. Tho it'd be hypocritical for me as an orbit to say I strictly put skills over personality or looks, so I completely understand that likeness is crucial to a group dynamic, even if it's not on stage. Hope this new view of talent and skills in kpop lead us eventually to a balance between these two views, so we can create the perfect mixture of talented and charismatic groups on stage, while being likeble enough to feed kpoptwt reactions
This video coming out after Kuanlin said that he only tried Produce to maybe get some money out of it is a fun timing coincidence lol after he got in he seemed to have tried his best tho so adding to the fact he wanted to make money for his mother (as he's the only son + his parents are divorced) it's admirable and i think this similarly applies to Kang Hyewon as well
I agree that overanalyzing performance and punishing people for any mistake is too harsh and unrealistic. It is not possible for someone to do their best every single time and mistakes are inevitable. Even amazing performers have off days here and there and it’s unfair to judge them only based on one bad performance.
HOWEVER, people who are genuinely below average and obviously under skilled like Hyewon do not deserve their place in this industry. We should stop rewarding dozens like her with an opportunity to debut for several reasons
1: they’re professionals and we should and need to have standards for them. They’re world class performers, not some random backup singer. To use an analogy, it’s ok for the food at McDonald to taste kind of mid. You don’t expect a typical high school student working in a fast food restaurant to be at the level of Gordon Ramsey or a head chef at a fancy restaurant. However, if you go to a Michelin star restaurant, wouldn’t you be upset if the food tasted like something made by someone who barely knows how stoves work? People want idols to be high level performers and that is not an unreasonable expectation.
2: supporting these significantly less talented yet popular idols mean that spots in debuting group can and will be stolen from those who actually have the skills. For example, Alexa, who can sing and dance much better than some of the girls who won produce, still got eliminated. Or Jiwoo from ru next. You CANNOT tell me wonhee or Moka is more skilled than her. And supporting these idols also signal to companies that charming visuals who are under skilled are worth debuting more than a more talented or trainee who’s less good looking, meaning that the snubbing we see in survival shows are also happening in regular groups.
3: it affects their work. There are many idols who I admire for how well they’ve able to put on a show, like Ateez’s demon line, legendary vocalists like Taeyeon, young k, and Hweeseung (n flying), and people who are just good performers like Siyeon (dreamcatcher) or Hyunjin. That is what I want to see on stage. Those are the people who DESERVE to be on stage. Idols like Hyewon, Sakura, Lucas, Tzuyu, shuhua, etc. just bog things down in a show. Also, having dozen-y idols in groups restricts and decreases the quality of their music. You can’t have songs like many of Gfriend’s title tracks, xdinary Heroes’s Strawberry Cake and Little Things, N Flying’s Flashback and Moonshot and Rooftop when your group’s vocal quality is as low as Le Serrafim or Ill’it’s. Also, good vocals can do a TON to elevate a song. For example, no way snsd’s ballads would be half as good as they are without their amazing vocal line and generally high vocal skills.
4: the entire concept of justice. Why should someone be able to find huge success when they’re objectively not qualified? It’s like someone winning gold at the Olympics even though they lost the game.
“entire concept of justice”?? Entertainment Industry is never merit-based. Kpop isn’t a singing competition and there’s more to being in idol than singing. An idol can release 1 song a year and then still be popular because it was never about talent or music. Fans get attached to the idols specially.
Debuting an idol doesn’t solely depends on their skills. Shuhua is there because they want the support of China & Taiwanese market and can you name another idol with her personality? Lucas, Hyewon are there solely for their visuals. They aren’t even promoted competent or talented idols by their company. They are promoted as good looking members for their entire idol life.
Sakura is weak at singing but she is literally top 3 dancers in LSFM and she’d be in top 6 of izone in 2024. Tzuyu was always a good dancer and vocalist and she is literally coming out with a debut mini album. If you actually look beyond what tiktok shows you, you would understand that.
Not every group’s purpose or goal is to sing vocal heavy songs like Gfriend or XH. Believe it or not but different groups fill different niches and illit songs literally do not need a Lily or Winter to elevate the song. Groups like NMIXX are formed with vocals in mind while LSF or ITZY are performance first and the songs are to compliment their performances.
Companies debut these idols because there’s more to offer from them than just singing. And Singing isn’t the only criteria that companies or fans have.
I am not saying you need to support every idol and i do not care who you support only vocally-talented groups. If you wanna listen to only “talented” idols, feel free to do so. But saying “untalented” idols shouldn’t be allowed and “stealing” a spot from another person without actually understanding how the entertainment industry works is honestly laughable and so naive.
@@ericccky I don’t believe singing is everything. I also greatly admire idols like RM, Suga, Zico, and 3racha for being good writers and AMAZING rappers. And I do think that dance is important. Idols like Momo or shotaro still have my respect even if they’re not super strong vocally or rap wise. Stage presence is important too which is why I mentioned hyunjin and the demon line.
i think it's okay if a less talented trainee debuted bc they have more "star quality" bc no matter how talented a trainee is if they don't have that they won't attract attention. meanwhile hyewon... idk maybe some got attracted to her pretty face or funny quips? besides that she doesn't have many fan-attracting qualities so idt she should have debuted as an idol.
@@ericccky yes it isn't merit-based but it's still unfair for untalented people to be making millions while talented trainees get their dreams destroyed
just cause Tzuyu will have a mini-album doesn't mean she's talented, she won't be the 1st or last untalented person to debut solo
@@kpopnimation Tzuyu is talented. She can sing and dance decently. She was always a decent dancer and she improved in singing. Even in debut Tzuyu had alright vocals.
Hyewon isnt an underdog. She wasnt done wrong, she deserved the critisism and honestly she didnt improve much. Why should trainees who are worse than mediocre debut instead of hardworking idols who trained for many years? Do you want idols who eventually learn something others already can do?
Womp womp womp
You really missed the point of the video...
@@minale3604 it doesnt matter shes a great person, when she doesnt have the talent.
@@tp5510 actually idols with likeable personalities and visual bring more popularity to the group
@@chipmunkse3942 dozen lover
THIS IS PROBABLY THE BEST KPOP COMMENTARY TOPIC
I agree with letting idols who already proved themselves to be talented breathe a little and not be perfect in every performance. like speaking badly on kiofs vocals? insane
12:02 it’s not even that. Most if not all of those main/lead vocalists would have already known how to sing before even becoming a trainee.
honestly this is why i liked a2k so much. because JYP constantly emphasized how he was looking for potential, all of the girls who made it to VCHA grew throughout the show, even the early favorites like Camila
Ricky getting into Zerobaseone is kind of an underdog story, just not a scripted (and casted) one. Like, an actual underdog. They clearly had some people meant for the lineup (Hanbin, Hao, Yujin) and a small pool of people they also wanted (Gunwook, Gyuvin, probably Park Hanbin) and then a bunch they were fine with (Matthew, Kim Taerae, Jiwoong, Keita, Jay and 10ish others). They did not want Ricky. One chinese member is more than enough, even though Ricky could pull off being vaguely american. So the editing did him no favours, he lowkey had an evil edit in the first few weeks, and he was ranked low in the initial assessment. He had very little screentime, but got popular based on his looks, a few iconic lines, memes, and general sex appeal. It's not the story of improvement you are talking about in the video, his skill level has been fairly consistent, but in terms of surprises that makes watching a survival show worth it I'd say it qualifies.
Not sure if he was one tho, mnet def didn't want him but his final placement was not really a surprise cuz his popularity growth was steady + chinese fans are LOYAL, so they did all they could to make him debut. mentors also did acknoledged his skills
You skirted around the issue that the formation of IZ*ONE was rigged. In a good way because they were a very balanced group, but not a clear indication of voter preferences.
omg louder for the people in the back, earned a sub! keep up the quality videos
People are meaner now. That's the conclusion.
much like how k-pop will never have another Random Girl from HINAPIA.
12:08 So you agree that the most talented idols now are not as good as the most talented idols back then?
Well no, I mean back then we had Qri and Boram from T-ara, Uee and Jooyeon from After School, Noeul and Yoonhye from Rainbow, Jihyun from 4Minute, etc. The "Hyewon" archetype of idols has existed for a long time in Kpop, second gen was full of them. 2nd gen was fun because of how imperfect it was. 4th and 5th gen fans will never understand this because yall care so much about perfection.
@@hyewonderfull I stan many 2nd gen groups but, differently from you, I celebrate the talented members of the group not the untalented ones. What I meant with my comment is that we don't have idols like Luna, Hyolyn and Taemin anymore. It's a good thing that people like the idols you mentioned aren't celebrated anymore, we need more talent.
Iz*one so talented that hyewon seems like a dozen,but could easily be the best dancer/vocalist in some recent groups
You're going WAY TOO FAR
@@Nini_K2 nope,in dance Hyewon could really keep up,and she never looked messy in iz*one coregraphies,mind you wich are really hard both for timing and skill,meanwhile in vocal she has really improved a lot,you can really appreciate it in her winter album on “winter poem” “snowy day” and “first love letter.Maybe not high note and whistle note level,but she definitely controls her voice well and has a really nice tone that adds sweetness to her songs
I think it is not about being perfect, but how is their attitude manage criticism. I don't know about Hyewon since I didn't watch the broadcast, but surely Sohye and Kwon Hyunbin (Pd101 s2), manage criticsm with skill upgrade.
Ive never understood the appeal of Hyewon - not because of the lack of talent but of the lack of charisma (i can deal with a bad singer or dancer who is entertaining or with an interesting stage presence - to me kpop is spectacle first and music second).
But she always looks either
1) like a deer in the headlight, as if widening her eyes and staring as much as possible would appease the audience’s expectations. I find it stressful to watch
2) sleep walking or making a mental grocery list
2) like she’s just awoke on stage after a brain reset and has to pretend everything is alright as she’s silently lost and freaking out
i think her deer in the headlights look is what made her so liked, she was a hard worker too
I definitely agree with what you had to say about K-pop fans scrutinizing every little thing about live performances nowadays. I don’t know why these netizens always send hate comments and DEATH THREATS to these idols when they make one mistake, it really pisses me off. Like why can’t we just listen to the music in peace without attacking anyone 😭😭😭
Great video overall! :) 👍
We dont want another dozen so thank god