@KhadijaMbowe
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2024
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Episode 149 The boys talk
0:00 Preview
2:15 Patreon preview on R Kelly's latest album "I Admit It"
5:04 @KhadijaMbowe v @AbaNPreach on men's loneliness
Original Videos:
Khadija • The Mensiz are lonely ...
Aba n Preach • "Women Are Better Off ...
8:28 are women better off single than being married to a man?
13:16 whose doing better emotionally in the west?
26:58 the pain and loss caused by being emotionally alienated by/from the men in your life
29:08 what do we do about the male intimacy issue?
32:00 are men being asked to pay dues into the patriarchy club but aren't even allowed in?
43:50 real niggas DO deserve pussy?
49:00 what are the lives of men who suffer from loneliness really like?
52:15 community vs pussy?
1:00:25 passport bros
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Men may need to start doing what lonely women do-pursue hobbies they enjoy, make genuine friends within those contexts, develop themselves as people, become happier within themselves. Happy people are attractive.
This! Be introspective. I think men (as a man myself) get in that loneliness space and get angry and blame everyone and everything around them (at first at least) and they find community online that thrives and commiserates in that same unhealthy bond lacking introspection. Whereas women are more willing to be introspective find healthy community and transform their entire lives in two years.
What I’m not understanding is from the guys in that podcast is, what are they expecting from women? Men are the ones who are lonely, but all they are being is angry that women are not actively giving themselves to men who are lonely. I think the elephant in the room is men seeing women as objects as the things that they can acquire I mean, he even started to refer to women in the plural, as like ‘go get some women’. That is the core of what this is. Women don’t want to be seen as objects, but even though women make themselves emotionally vulnerable, men play it like a game and that’s why you get these women who say that they were dating a narcissist. So the guys don’t seem to want to modify themselves or grow, but still stay angry at women for seeing them as the lonely men that they are? How is that going to change anything?
This is what men should be doing regardless
Who says they’re not doing these things. Sometimes it’s the environment and not the person themselves.
@@tellemonhigh4634 No one. My statement was conditional.
I disagree w the A & B solely bc saying “women are also lonely sometimes, & y’all are stuck w/ us anyway” doesnt change anything or help anybody. Men women or anybody at all.
I hate it that men feel like women need to just suck it up and deal with men. Whenever you bring up to them that they're simply average and they're not going to get rewarded for that they get so upset
@@damian4628 You realize that Men are half the world's population right? You can't avoid 4 billion people.
I also don't think that anyone is addressing that most incels are mad that attractive women are not having sex with them. Most woman who are seen as not attractive are not on incels radar.
Good point. This is mostly why I doubt their perception of society. There’s a long list of women that they vocally do not want, even when those women are available. So, how am I supposed to trust their narrative about women’s standards being too high without knowing which women they’re talking about?
People don't address that because its a nonsense talking point.
@@password460 How so?
@@blackstone8158because in their opinion, I presume, those women are worthless in the dating marketplace.
I think this has always been my intrigue with the toxic masc podcasts and their monolithic complaints about “women.” These are actually complaints about instagram models, girls they meet at the club, people who society constructs as conventionally attractive and typically even extremely hyperfeminine. And anecdotally speaking, I think their pursuit of these women is to socially and shallowly reinforce their “high value” as a man. That archetype is representative of far less women than the men in question could probably fathom. I question their taste to say the least
@Judy Mwanzo Then involuntary celibacy is a myth they use for not opening their dating pool. You can't think partnership only boils done to having an attractive partner on your arm. No wonder no matter how many or little people they sleep with, they will always feel lonely.
interesting that men apparently do worse than women being single - the stereotype is that men find women's desire for relationships cloying and claustrophobic
This! Because the opposite of dating men (or anyone) is just being alone!
Lke you have to compete against my peace. If you do not bring me peace, i can choose to be alone.
@@Cnichalbut to Khadija’s point as well, you aren’t *truly* alone simply because you aren’t in a committed monogamous relationship. We ideally have family, friends, coworkers, neighbors, just general people in our communities so long as we are willing to leave our homes or find them online to engage! And while that doesn’t need to replace a romantic relationship, we don’t necessarily have to construct that as being “alone.”
Also totally get that not everyone has the privilege of say, living in a populated area, family which is loving or safe, even internet connection. That should be acknowledged and definitely can drive people to being truly alone!
This is true. To me it's what more privileged groups always do which is to complain about the situation even when they're making bank. Think of colonialism and the white man's burden. They called imperialism and world domination a burden lol. Men in relationships complain a lot but don't hesitate to reap the rewards.
Because our society has made it so men don’t know how to be healthy and alone and to not put their worth and validation on women and how they look to other men
26:00 You all spent so much time on Khadija's mannerisms and gestures but failed to mention AbaNPreach calling women b!&%$ in their response like it's just okay.
EXACTLY.
"They did not get crazy or say anything disrespectful in particular that I caught..."
Yet they were consistently getting antagonistic and outright replying with "bitch" in an aggressive tone but that was not addressed like at all and it's like wtf?? Is all that just invisible to yall? 🙃🙃
Male bias
What’s so funny is the mannerisms Josh mentioned are not much different from how women talk to each other so it’s like they arent comfortable with the way we talk about our feelings.
I was so disappointed. FD introduced me to this channel and I was excited to make my way through their videos. But I can't listen to guys with this huge of a blindspot for misogyny. I don't trust them.
@@125loopyyou don’t like it when women are criticised. You call it “misogynistic”
I think if men learn to treat men better socially I think it will positively effect relationships with women.
This is the way, but notice rhese guys never consider it.
@@Smartmemory101that depends on what you mean by better. How exactly do you propose we treat each other better
Yes and treat their kin better too
Yeah, Im gonna pass if the reason for coupling up is 'we only have each other'. If we aren't seeking healthy partnership, I'm good tx
No one said to do that. The point was the whole I do better by myself is bs. We all need each other. People need people
About community building, I met my boyfriend and fell for him during and because of his dorky community building. And he always describes himself as the dorky theater geek who somehow got the cheerleader. What makes him different from other nerdy boys who I've ultimately rejected was that he was and is in a healthy mental state. He wasn't operating on top of a crushing sense of depression, skepticism, anger, anxiety, entitlement or injustice. Many of the men who are looking for advice on women and are lonely and are usually unfortunately operating with those issues, and it comes through. You can only mask so much by learning the game, or getting tactics from a dating coach....that pain always manifests in dating. Healing is key
@vornamenachname7660 lmao @ you women. Yeeeea you sound very mentally stable and unbothered. Enjoy your "peace" sir 👀
@@vornamenachname7660 yeah…you definitely need to stay single. And work through that hurt. Because it’s coming through loud and clear in your comment.
@@vornamenachname7660 Bro this is just kind of a self report. Like she said…healing lol.
@@Janna_Ash
Triggered!
Great conversation. FD Signifier and Foreign both introduced me to you. I enjoy the balance, thought process, and discussion.
There were two videos that Aba and Preach did and after a convo with Khadija, they took the second video down. The first video is still up but they took Khadija's photo off the thumbnail. A&P completely misconstrued Khadija's video.
Yeah, Josh's description of Passport Bros is correct despite them telling on themselves. Basically, no woman in the US wants you so you're going abroad to find women who want a green card to help themselves and their families. As the US State Department tweeted many years ago before taking it down, "If you're not a 10 here, you're not a 10 abroad." (Mic drop) It's been a thing for decades, and as a solo backpacker abroad, I've seen this type of behavior from men of all shades. It's nothing new, it's just been elevated due to virality of social media.
They talked with khadija? Is this on their channel
@@TheNoviceOAO Khadija mentions the talk they had with A&P. There is no video of them talking if that is what you're asking.
Thank you for this breakdown.
You like being a dormat for female incels, do you?? You do you.
I was in love someone for almost a year and she did not reciprocate. It hurt a lot (though she did nothing wrong but make a... questionable decision to get back with her ex. A decision that nonetheless should be hers to make). This rejection was the straw that broke the camel's back and led to me bitterly and unironically listening to the audiobook of "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream."
I also made a bitter post on a group chat that led to a lot of my friends becoming concerned. One of them came over to check on me. As soon as she arrived, my bitterness melted away and I burst into tears. I remember sobbing through the words "I don't want you to have to manage my emotions for me," and her response was something like "look, man. You're a human being with a lot of big emotions. Humans were not made to deal with these emotions by themselves." Heh, she actually sounded pretty exasperated about my neurotic concern about her managing my emotions. I'm extremely grateful to her for helping me get through that hard time.
What I really want to know is if men are saying they are lonely bc they're having less sex or bc they're experiencing less intimacy both platonic and romantic. Because I really do think men say they're lonely if they're not having sex even if they're surrounded by friends or are in a committed relationship
And I only say this because I think in general a lot of men look at sex as being the only form of intimacy they can give and receive
@@IndiaMarie96 This is a good question. 🤔
I suppose I can only speak for myself and the men I hang around, so take my anecdotal evidence and small sample size with a grain of salt if you want but speaking for myself and my friends, we guys say it because we're receiving less romantic and platonic affection, as opposed to us all being grunting sex hungry cavemen just jonesing to put our dick into a warm body.
My hypothesis would be less intimacy period….which most men generally get from romantic relationships.
It’s intimacy as a whole.
The social programming/scripting and expectations that come with it was a great point. I remember having to learn to navigate all that. Luckily, I had figured it out reasonably by middle to late high school. I feel for guys who didn't have that practice with social interaction with women to understand the script isn't a road map to romantic or sexual success.
Khadija trying to break the divide, but that doesn't fit their narrative, and when there is no divide there is no profit to make from it.
(Speaking as a white man)
Who are these lonely dudes? I really think pretty much all of us who are unpartnered and not asexual and aromantic. Some dudes react to it by lashing out, blaming women, claiming entitlement to sex or kids or something, but they’re sharing a similar struggle to the vast majority of us where we’re just struggling under capitalism. The whole world isn’t set up for people to easily make friendly connections in the real world, and boys are socialized both to expect certain types of connection, and to not have tools to get any kind of healthy connection. So overall, you get a huge proportion of men who feel these things, but in different ways and to different extents. And it does systemically affect men in a particular way. I wouldn’t say it’s worse for men than women, but the way it gets filtered through the male experience makes the ultimate feeling and manifestation hit in a way that is kind of incomprehensible for a lot of women. And on a community level women are way ahead in developing specialized coping mechanisms for this kind of thing, which either can’t be applied to men, or men don’t have access to.
I wish this was explored more. I think women develop a sense of community out of necessity and survival. We can’t always depend on the larger society or the construct of nuclear families to support our best interests. So we’ve had no choice but to get very good at making new connections throughout life for any given need. Maybe there’s some evolutionary psychology at play there.
I think that parents raise boys with the presumption of an easy “privileged” life, so they drop the ball on many pro-social skills. American culture is also very anti-social, power-hungry, greedy, and narcissistic. This basically hinders any meaningful connections that would be caused by vulnerability, generosity, or openness. These traits are a hard sell when the only people who are rewarded in our society are absolutely terrible human beings. 😂 So, I sympathize with this dilemma.
@@LoneWulf278 lamo get your genes out of here thank you for not passing on your ideas
@@SmackDabCola What did she say that was wrong?
@@matxalenc8410 its dumbed down to "boys are coddled by their parents that's why they have poor social skills" They don't even consider the fact that boys get their empathy sniped at such a young age. Like we see it everywhere and we even have terms referring to "daddys girl's" so its not like coddling is exclusive for boys.
When I clicked this I had no idea it was waving the red flag... This is an avengers level team up right hurrrr 💯🔥💯🔥💯🔥
Everyone is suffering. The gender norms make it that men will suffer more due the idea that men shouldn’t talk or be vulnerable about the issues they face. Or to drag their feet on partnering with folks because they have to “sow their oats” and blah blah blah. Then there is race, socioeconomic standing, and sexual orientation that only make things worse.
Oooo I’m ready for this one
Edit: I love crossovers with my favs (KM). This pod was great.
You guys are so respectful to each other and open to untangle the knots in a conversations.
Loving this conversation 💗
I know im late but i say this in every discussion about this. I hate that the male loneliness topic is always about getting sex. I dont care about getting. When i say im lomely i mean i dont hsve emotional support and empathy over the issues that i struggle with
"Why are men lonely," *Immediately blames the victims expressing loneliness*. Cool Alvin real cool.
Granted, some men and women are the core reason for their loneliness. However, what would you say is a better explanation of what makes men lonely?
@@chaz89052 Societal expectations. How boys are socialized. How adult men are talked to and treated. The dissolving of traditional men's clubs/groups in the pursuit of gender equality but the non inclusion of them in women's spaces. And yes a degree of that is individual problems but a lot of it is bigger than just men need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and fix their own problems.
I can attest to this, as a queer cis man, I can agree that we aren't doing great either as a community either
Great video and happy Alvin is back!
Bro with the drop curls gotta work on not overtalking his mates...often times he's adlibing and it kinda diminishes the bounce of the conversation. otherwise, excellent conversation, great perspectives by all, and im looking forward to seeing this platform incline.
He does. Reading these comments and they wonder why guys never want to open up about their feelings🥹
Glad you did this.
Hope they (a&p) have a back and forth with you after this, maybe invite Fiq on for it
Fr Fr. I like A&B but I feel like they haven’t been exposed to enough leftist ppl on CZcams to get a bigger picture of what’s out there
@@felixborges7440 agreed. they need to read more intersectional stuff about black women and queer POCs
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. All dating advice is bullshit. Nobody knows what the fuck they're doing. There are some things you can do to get better luck, but at the end of the day, it's still based on luck.
I truly enjoyed this convo. And i agree that the data isn't calibrated to the current socio-economic/political context. So nobody even knows what they're talking about forreal
I think for discussions like this everybody involved should watch all the content being discussed. Eddy did a solid job but couldn't really paraphrase the points made by both parties that gave full context and intent.
They support the status quo because it hurts them least not because of the benefit anymore. Specifically because of that benefit loss their mental health is suffering.
This is a great and important distinction especially when we talk about privilege in general. We all fucking struggling at the hands of the system, no one’s denying that. But if some people can mostly cope and conform which leads to a long life, wealth, and being partnered than it makes sense they would reinforce a bad system which negatively affects them the least.
@@heyyitsjude There is no alternative. You may like it to be better, but it's what happens when two sexes are both insecure.
@@SmackDabCola alternative to what lmao
😂😂 not a “crumb of coochie” lmao 🤣 😂
Also great job you guys
The social darwinism aspect of dating is terrifying. Only the strongest survive.
End of the day, all this gender war shit is goofy.
I don’t think of it as a gender war. We’ve been needing to have these conversations for ages. I’m glad it’s all getting discussed.
Tonally the discussion is confused at best . Whats with the equation of lack of intimacy/connection to lack of sex?
To adress Khadija's point I believe across the board there is a collective cognitive dissonance born of the burgeoning, seemingly foreign future clashing with a dying, familiar yet problematic past. Traditionally women have been socialized to evolve a stronger sense of self in regards to emotional intelligence and intimacy supported by companionship found through community. Aforementioned tradition dictates men are only allowed to express certain forms of intimacy/performances of emotional intelligence with the implied acceptable respective familial relation or conventionally acceptable pair bond mate. In the modern world women's lack of need to rely on men to economically survive means men have to acclimate to a position of uncertainty hinged on their potential mates scrutiny. I believe what everyone is feeling is fear in relation to instability which is par for the course when navigating uncharted waters i.e. a paradigm shift.
Because most men equate intimacy with sex. They don't make that distinction the way women do.
I'm fucking ready for this corss over episode !!!
AND ALVIN IS BACK!! I love it here.
Who measures emotional wellness, and how does one objectively/empirically measure it?
To be honest, the thumbnail for and title of the "Men Are Lonely, Should We Care?" video was enough to get me to not watch it. Maybe when I'm in a better place emotionally.
How did I know that eddy was a MatPat fan hahaha man drop a film theory joke and got crickets
Haha, that "Ashley" situation, just made my week. I'm gonna drop "Ishley" on someone one day for fun.
@13:26 No, the gays are not okay either. 😂
I remember I was once in a "History Through Film" class. We were talking about The Best Years of Our Lives, and one of the women in the class mentioned there were several times where the women in the story basically manage their partner's emotions for them. I agreed with that. There are several good examples of that (the bar scene being maybe the most obvious). But for her example, she cited a scene where a man has a PTSD-induced nightmare where he watches his friend die again, and the woman basically comes in, wakes him up, and just says it's ok and that he's safe now. And I'm sorry, but regardless of your gender, if someone's having a horrible nightmare and your response to the person who helped them through that is "you shouldn't have to manage their emotions," that's not ok.
To quote a message I sent to a friend recently: "It's like...I've been alone in the cold for so long that I've forgotten what heat is, and I've stumbled onto a roaring campfire. It's simultaneously appealing and horrifying, because it reminds me of how cold and numb I've become, and I feel out of place. So I start trying to find ways to lower the flame, much to everyone's chagrin." And then, people keep telling me to just step into the light, join them by the fire. And I want to join them more than anything, but I've been to so many of these fires before, and I see so many ways this can end badly. Some of them have lost so much to the cold that any change in temperature makes them panic and send me back away. Sometimes, a chillwind blows through. I ask for a blanket, and they tell me to get my own, that it's not their job to make me warm, even though they were the ones who said they wanted me to join them by the fire in the first place. Having realized they really don't want me or any of the other cold ones to join them, I join the other cold ones, and we walk away, staring wistfully back at the distant light...
37:35 to speak on his thoery about black men having to learn to be more likable so that's why they are having more sex and are less lonely than any other race of men... I think that's completely false. black men are more desirable and black women have notoriously chosen down so black women actually statistically don't prioritize the money that black men don't have and still choose to partner and mate with them no matter how broke those men are.
You're right and a few comments above Decatur Qué confirms it.
41:12 😂😂😂😂 worddd😂😂😂
Once again, shout-out to Emma Goldman for talking about this sort of thing over a century ago.
25:30 I ain't gone lie, I thought that shit was funny as hell, I laughed every time she did a voice, lol.
I’m so late but wanted to comment on their usage of a stereotypically feminine voice. It’s because these are stereotypically FEMINIZED discussions / explorations. I think it was meant to really hone in on the juxtaposition of how boys and girls are socialized to understand and articulate themselves and needs. I guess I’m not sure why it was considered condescending when women talking to OTHER women that way isn’t, but talking to a man or male audience that way is. 🤔
I’m not in a financial position where it would be wise for me to be out spending money, which perpetuates and prolongs my being uncoupled
There are some women that exist that has neva manipulated a man or person in their entire lives and i happen to be one of them but what i keep meeting are men who think i do and treat me like im nothing
As a 39 yo woman who still seeks marriage and family theres no hope for people like me cuz too much of the population are damaged people
17:34 yes, completely agree with Alvin. Yt men could change it but it would mean giving up some power and that’s why they don’t.
@KhadijaMbowe made a response video that adds more context but she privated it
I watched a stream of them addressing it.
@@st.valentineArt Aba and preach addressed it?
@@mikkelgreen5118 No A&P didn't address it. Khadija goes by they/them. They made a second video, had it up for 1-2 days, then took it down. The first video is still up, but they changed the thumbnail to not include Khadija.
@@tacrewgirl Isn't Khadija fine with she/they? Tbh not entirely sure there but I think I heard that. If you have a source that says different I'll gladly correct.
I hear this guy about the issues not being as pronounced for black men and it feels correctly. Every brother in my circle can go out and get women and we did it when we were broke. According to the internet this isn’t the case though and the popularity of the red pill seems to correlate at the least.
Good conversation, but you guys could have had more data behind it... all stats are there but I guess that I appreciate your personal experiences... could have been better though
Alot of theses issues spread thanks to the use of the internet and a increase of potential partners so guys and girl have a specific thing they want but wont talk about or compromise for added with these people socializing less in person relationships dont form as easy
Honestly i think the place people usually go to socialize just aren’t appealing to younger people especially guys who maybe dont have a strong social circle of friends
6 szns and a movie 🤣🤣
The study follows and references trends particularly in white men.
No it's cuz people have no friends generally
1:01:47 pause
Can we differentiate between true Patriarchy and Germanic Supremacy. One has existed since the earliest days of human society as a way to organize people, the other is a cultural and economic philosophy to maintain the status of the elites in their and other cultures.
I’m at 23:40 and finding the conversation now stressful
Mini fro is making is point very clear. I don't know why curly head is acting confused. Maybe its all for the content.
She's Princella Jr.
She was a bit condescending in my opinion as well. I love her videos usually as well. But It was an air of condescension
Al is not correct on who is doing the best in most metrics. For all the metrics he referenced, Asian men are doing the best. And if you want to get specific about income, Indian Americans are at the top of that list.
I think some aren’t reading these studies or articles, just going off of what people “think” is the right thing to say.
Also, please explain what is exaggerated or misrepresented about the study. You just say it’s misrepresented but I haven’t heard how exactly.
That short neck man just seems like a person looking for love. He just got a reply from a young woman who thinks she could ride that guy, to a better life. As someone from that same country I can see myself doing the same as the girl. But I don't think the guy is predatory at all. If anything that is more of a symbiotic relationship to me.
Even if the relationship is symbiotic the person from another country has less power and control
@michaelajames99 two things - has less economic and political power, but way more social/,emotional power.
Also an imbalance of piwer doesnt make someone a bad guy.
sry but she was rubbing salt in the womb to pander to her audience , I like her content but that video completely turned me off of her
& it was happening right when state & the red pill was blowing up so it was intentional
Khadija Mbowe is what happens when your brain is placed back in your dome, slightly titled to the left.
Shout out to @matpatgt and @filmtheory 😂😂😂 37:33