Drinker's Chasers - We're Not Making Good Things Anymore
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2022
- It seems like Hollywood is increasingly unable to make anything good or original. The best they can come up with is to remake and repurpose things made by previous generations. Join us as we try to figure out why.
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Such a good comment: “They can’t write characters because they have no character.” Their films reflect their soul-deadening emptiness. They try to make up for the fact that they have no inner life by cramming in political correctness and social justice, which never make up for bad writing and no likeable characters.
I find that the best writers have passion behind what they are writing because if you don't care what you are doing then no one else will.
Sounds like TikTok-ers to me. Jokes aside, your comment is on point.
The feeling of dread while watching these heinous movies, TV shows or even cartoons is overwhelming. It's like Uncanny Valley cranked to 11.
That's right. They indeed lack life experience and pretty much in every aspect. There used to be directors who could adapt a lot of different genres on the screen with different underlying topics because they had vast knowledge and experience. But modern shows all feel the same. You always find the same trope in all of them even though they are supposed to be different genres. She-Hulk to me feels exactly the same as Ring of the Powers even though they should be completely different. And that's exactly because of the lack of real life experience of the directors. They don't understand these kind of topics because the only thing they've ever experienced is the woke outrage. So there is only one style with one single topic they can write stories with, woke. And you can feel that when watching these shithows.
@@TheScarletSlayer I think they are lacking in everyghing required to be a good storyteller. Passion, experience and talent.
@@pandaman1331 you think there's a screening process that consists of" well the movies crap but it checks all of our boxes, congratulations you're hired!
Here’s the thing, I went to an art college for almost two years hoping go get an animation degree, and there are creative people out there. I’ve heard such spectacular pitches for shows from people with good stories to tell. The problem is, these people with amazing concepts stories to tell are lower-middle class yahoos from Chicago who are most likely going to give up on those worlds they’ve created because the industry will iron out all semblance of creativity. Creatives are not these wealthy wine moms from Marvel, creatives are the dirty little children who had to daydream to get through the day.
In my day, we called “wine moms” by their proper name, “alcoholics.“
Sad, but powerful truth explained. I am listening to these comments and others. I learn, and I agree. yeah, it is very wrong, for modern society to ignore people with dreams and talent but can't get the business references or "politics" to get the jobs. How many people have been ignored that should have been allowed to practice their talent?
@@Attmay Someone was telling the story about their mom just getting back from thrift shopping, where she'd scored all sorts of "It's wine o'clock" decors, and was hanging it up in the kitchen when the power went out. The kids looked out the windows, wondering if it was a blackout, but noticed everyone else still had power. Teen daughter asked "So when was the last time the electric bill was paid?"
Wine mom was like "Hmm, good question," and had no idea.
So yeah, a wine hobby is all fun and games until you forget to pay the bills, or find yourself writing for "She-Hulk".
That last line is so quote-able. “…creatives are the dirty little children who had to daydream to get through the day.” That’s beautiful.
@@jonathanknudsen4120 yeah, have to admit. Its a bit heartbreaking that comment but is spot on. "...had to daydream to get through..." IF...If you know it, that main halmark theme song of Les Miserables, "I dream". is moving and great. People who have hard lives sometimes don't give up their dreams. Even if it doesn't come through, it helps them make it. Although I am not where I would like to be financially and socially, I have come a long way. I don't forget where I came from. But at least now I live in a nice place and have a good job.
“I was taking a s-t the other day when my thoughts turned to The Last Jedi” - Critical Drinker
Impossible to not read that in his voice.
CS Lewis explained these people long ago in 'The Abolition of Man': ...And all the time - such is the tragi-comedy of our situation - we continue to clamour for those very qualities we are rendering impossible. You can hardly open a periodical without coming across the statement that what our civilization needs is more ‘drive’, or dynamism, or self-sacrifice, or ‘creativity’. In a sort of ghastly simplicity we remove the organ and demand the function. We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honour and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful.
Who's CS Lewis? Saw someone under E;R use his quote as well
In other words, we need a war.
@@YBOT-BITTERs The creator of "The Chronicles of Narnia"
@@YBOT-BITTERs He was an amazingly good 20th century writer - friends with JRR Tolkien. He wrote many great works in addition to the Chronicles of Narnia (mentioned below).
@@YBOT-BITTERs To add to what has been said, C.S. Lewis wrote many things that were a commentary on humanity, christianity, etc. He had a lot of profound insights. Great reads.
“Too Big to Fail” has become “Too Big to Succeed.” All of these large IP holders have become so interconnected with other tech and media holdings and so internally bureaucratized that it is almost impossible to ride herd over all the disparate elements.
💯💯💯. Well said
99% of modern film makers are corporate hacks or diversity hires. that's why. who would want to go to hollywood today? the illusion is gone. real talent wants to be away from the woke and just live their life in peace
They don't care if they succeed in a traditional sense. Their goal is to completely monpolize the media landscape. Anytime anyone turns on the TV there's a ready-packaged Disney product there that might not be good, but at least you can count on it being the same easy digestible format your brain has been trained to expect. As long as they are the 'default' and people don't make active efforts to seek out non-Disney content, they can just starve out competitors that will gradually be buried under an infinite backlog of throwaway products.
I reject their reality and will not participate, if more people did the same they might get the message.
@@randobad They'll get it if they see enough money sitting on the sidelines.
We truly are just OK making average/mediocre products and it is depressing
Even calling them ok or acceptable is stretching it
It isn’t acceptable. They have allowed all forms of creative expression to degenerate into eyerape and earrape.
Hollywood is infested with lunatic liberals who were indoctrinated in college or art schools.
I'd say 'they' instead of 'we' since it separates rather than associates yourself with them. I don't feel any kind of bond or relation to these people and their 'stories' and I'd wager you don't either.
@@Phantomgreen29 🙏💯
When I was a kid (I'm old), we had to use our imaginations. George Lucas lived in his own imagination for most of his youth. Born next was a generation with trillions of hours of content perpetually right in front of them. They have never used their imagination to dream up a new galaxy because they never had to.
This. I was talking deeply about this with someone IRL (they thought I was being extreme)... I sincerely believe that this Information Age is literally *rewiring* human brains, and *removing* the neural pathways that generate Imagination. Children these days are losing their Power of Imagination earlier and earlier. And many adults can't even imagine things. I'm not even kidding.
Considering how it feels like almost every single franchise is imploding story wise, this will probably help us be more creative and come up with interesting stories, simply because we can't stand the current stories shoved down our throats by Hollywood. Personally, all of this mediocrity is inspiring me to try and get into the film and writing industry so I can actually create good stories.
Too right! When I was growing up in the 70's, there were 3 TV channels for entertainment, the radio, a football, a guitar or some other musical instrument, and books to read. Other than that, you went outside and exercised your imagination. No wonder everything was high quality concepts of entertainment!
Underwater comment, I think this is one of the key reasons we are in the situation were in today. A lot of social issues could be solved locally with out all the tech and various propaganda. People want things fixed for them instead of using their mind to come up with healthy solutions and connect locally. Went a bit of topic there lol
This is the most interesting comment I’ve ever seen. As a child of the early 2000s I may not resonate completely but I know damn well content was far more impactful back then. That generation has sadly been phased out, and results with the wrong people in the wrong chairs.
Ryan Johnson claims to be a star wars fan. But there is no way you can do what he did to LUKE Skywalker and love star wars. 🙄
Rian also said that he subverts expectations and had the main suspect in knives out be the actual killer. Nice one blockhead
He sure as hell ain’t cause he thinks empire was a bad film and even worse he thinks people agree with him
I think he only said he watched the original trilogy and didn't believe they did well on release. In my opinion that meant he didn't care for the movies and projected his thinking onto others. Just next level lazy and naïve.
He made the ridiculous statement that Empire Strikes Back wasn't very good and most people didn't like it on release. Rian is a FoS manlet.
Except the way JJ setup Luke left Rian Johnson with few options. Btw, JJ will never make a movie as good as Knives Out. Never.
In addition to the impressive comment of “they have no character, that’s why they can’t make good characters”, it also comes down to who do we reward as a society: think of influencers in tiktok and Instagram, massive amounts of compensation in many spheres for no real talent - THAT has now permeated to other forms of entertainment and sadly I think; will keep on spreading
I blame consumers. If the demand isn't there, the products/services won't exist.
100% blame falls on consumers. Because people keep consuming this shit and every year the standards are lowered even further, masses jus gobble up anything that isn't visually offending, which is an easy bar to reach with modern plug-and-play vfx.
I absolutely despise modern entertainment culture where shallow no-personality people fight for attention on social media and every movie/show is emulating that behavior because it's run by the very same people who care more about their social life portrayal, than what they're actually producing. To these people, these masses, rising to fame is more important than how that fame is achieved. If you can make a massive turd, but market it as "the WORLD'S BIGGEST turd" then they will gladly do that over anything that takes real effort and life experience.
This!!!
@@Real_MisterSir The blame certainly falls on consumers currently, but we need to look at what created this. This psychology didn't spontaneously come into being: we blithely let in propagandists and manipulators to break down our society. Children no longer feel safe to walk down to the neighbor's house, nobody trusts each other, and all of that was fomented by the exact same people. Just about everything awful can be traced back to the same cabal. Certainly, passive live-and-let-live types enabled it, but all the enablement in the world will do nothing if there's not an evil actor to enable.
Then consider the combined influence such people's financial wealth has when focussed on the same socio-political causes.
_"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."_ - KJV, Matthew 7 : 6
It used to be that Hollywood was the place to turn for inspired characters, compelling narratives, world building. Now, I watch more Korean tv than mainstream. Even subtitled, its more interesting.
Hollywood is dead and we have killed it.
@P Zd its funny that a bot is using that unfunny ugly anime shill to try and trick drinker fans
Korean TV is awful
Couldn’t agree more!
Becoming a Koreaboo is not the answer
Just recently "The Northman", "RRR" and "Everything everywhere all at once" prove we can still make original, interesting things.
RRR 👍🏾
Loved RRR check out Baahubali 1 and 2 you will like it.
The Northman isn't even an original story. It's just that it was done well.
@@smccomas01 will do I have them on my Netflix list👍🏾
And Top Gun: Maverick
Drinker already figured this out. First, every generation before Gen X (my generation) had to fight in wars, work crap jobs, etc. or, in other words, lived full lives before becoming writers and directors. But starting with Gen X, filmmakers just went to school then into the business. They didn't experience regular life or hardships. As a result, there's no life experience to draw upon to create art. Instead, they're drawing upon stuff they remember from their childhoods during the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s. Second, making and marketing a movie costs so much that in order to ensure a return on investment, the project must come as close as possible to a sure thing. And the only possible sure things are projects with built-in fan bases or former successes. Until there's an answer to the financial aspect of American movie-making, we won't get past the sequels, reboots and superhero movies.
And with the generation after Gen-X, it got even worse. At least Gen-X still went outside and got in to trouble and got bullied, etc.
@@marcmarc1967 so being bullied is like a good thing with valuable life lessons in your world? Seems like someone needs some education here.
@@narvinek You obviously don't understand how society works, especially among men. It's not a utopian dream world where nobody gets their feeling hurt. Bullying is also self-policed by the people around the bully who usually recognizes when he's gone too far, and he listens to them. It's not cut and dry like the movies portray it, where the "bully" is a 100% total jerk. The world is grey.
@@narvinek Bullying, ironically, used to be much less horrible before the days of zero-tolerance. Now, a kid who gets bullied has his life and academic potential ruined. Both kids are punished, both kids held back, both kids get black marks on their records - only the bully doesn't care while the bullied kid might just lose his shot at a good college from these black marks.
On a psychological level, being punished the same as your abuser is deeply harmful because it affirms that there's no justice. You're not even being punished for stepping out of line, you're being punished for having been dragged out of line.
That might be typically true of Generation Z but there were very grim times for X.
Poverty, hand-me-downs, racism, bullying, heartbreaks, parental divorces, perhaps some muggings, molestations and abortions; pre-Internet ignorance, frankly the shock of hard core web porn, our collective failure in stopping the atrocious war in Iraq, the normalisation of mass shootings, egregious police brutality and drone-killings, the advent of overarching Orwellian mainstream media, the dystopian contrast of this nihilistic, jingoistic, gender-bending, smartphone void we're now in, following the never-ending excitements and innovations of the optimistic '80s and '90s.
It’s amazing how something only needs be slightly above average for it to stand out now!
Indeed. It’s tragic that average/OK is the new awesome.
True for the most part but they are still amazing stuff like, the boys, reacher and the terminal list etc, just far less of them now
@@govindersingh3058 None of which are in any way amazing proving the point.
@@govindersingh3058 💯. Soooo true. Terminal List and Reacher are A+
@@govindersingh3058 none of that stuff is good
It'll be really depressing once they finally decide to start remaking older classics like "Casablanca" and "Twelve Angry Men." 🤮
DON’T
12 angry feminists?
@@Skygrotto Or Rick will be replaced with Erika, the French Resistance with BLM, WWII with Jan 6th, and the final shot with be with Elsa and Erica riding into the sunset screaming: Yaaaas queen!
Please, God, no!
Citizen Kane...all female/ethnic minorities edition...cause that's what any movie needs! The age of creativity is over, everything is a race to get to "adulting" and creating a hivemind approach to life that apparently will make things "better"....can't help but think of the movie equilibrium.
Where's the full open bar?! This is an epic gathering, Nerdrotic, Mauler, the Drinker and Tyrone ULTIMATE Magnus!
czcams.com/video/okp9sqRlbYU/video.html
It was up on His main channel. I guess he's probably going to up load it to Drinker live in a day of two.
He sometimes (always?) releases excerpts first to whet appetite, and then releases the whole episode.
Right? I definitely wanna watch this one. Love Tyrone Magnus
It was on earlier I watched it live
Haha yea I have a huge criticism that he posts the full talk wayyy after these teasers. I then forget to go back and watch the full talk.
I think as society has gotten softer and more privileged, the things that made stories compelling have been lost. The people writing these things have never failed, been injured, or legitimately feared for their safety. The consequence of this problem manifests in the stories they tell, which appear as absolute nonsense to actual biologically grounded people.
Trust in the fact that there are many in society who are not living soft and privileged lives. There are many in modern day America who often go to bed hungry, or who will freeze this coming winter, or who dont have running water or electricity. Others struggle with addiction due to trauma that they have to forget via substance use, such as child abuse, "assault of an intimate nature", years of being bullied, or miscellaneous acts of violence that they suffered, and still suffer the effects of in the form of PTSD.
The catch there is that these more realistic, more grounded people who have suffered in life couldn't find work in h wood even if they could try, because they dont have the connections, or they dont tick the right boxes due to being white and from flyover country in Middle America.
The chosen few that h wood recruits come from soft and privileged backgrounds. They're usually from nyc or socal, usually minorities of some kind (traditionally either members of the tribe that own h town or members of the black community, but now the box ticking is for anyone not white and not from the realer parts of America), and always on the far left. This is by design.
The Culture itself that allowed these nonsense to be born is also to be blamed imo. Look at Japan and Korea, their internal Entertainment is doing really well. Because they faced struggle in their lives, from childhood to adulthood. No one gets an easy pass. Every child were forced into high expectations in both academic and societal norm and that breeds humility. America? I doubt any parents even dare to discipline their child anymore. Grounding a child? What's that gonna do? Nothing humbled a child better than a cloth hanger or a belt. Being soft to children and you get the Western culture where everything, everywhere is collapsing.
@@SickOfDemocracy "Every child were forced into high expectations in both academic and societal norm and that breeds humility."
It also breeds massively increased cases of depression and suicide, because there's, for most people, no escape from those expectations. Failure to perform is unacceptable.
@@BeardedDanishViking between high depression rate and suicide and a literal collapse of a nation. I know what i choose and what i'm willing to sacrifice. I was spanked with a cloth hanger all my childhood and i'll do the same to my child if i'll have one.
Not only have these people never wanted for anything, but they aren't even humble enough to realize it or curious enough to find interest in the stories of people who have. Take someone like George Lucas: he never fought a war like Tolkien or Roddenberry, and grew up in a wealthy environment, but he still took chances in life and learned from his failures when his car accident prevented him from being a NASCAR driver like he wanted to. Moreover, he showed genuine appreciation and reverence to the works that inspired him throughout his youth, from Buck Rodgers-style serials to Akira Kurosawa's films, and took inspiration from them while making his very own thing. Lack of life experience + lack of humility + lack of culture = shitty writers like the ones currently working for Marvel and Star Wars.
Shortly after starting work I had a boss who had been a fighter pilot in the battle of britain at the same age that I was at the time, he embarrassed me several times by stating just how different his approach was at the same age, a humbling but learning experience.
What was his approach?
Please don't say "from behind"!
@@chillialexander Ha! 😆😝
6 o'clock low.
@@chillialexander basically, "if it needs doing, do it now".
4:28 Tolkien didn’t just “live within proximity of a massive world war,” he was a traumatized veteran of WWI. He didn’t like to talk about what he saw in combat, but ones presumes, it includes *some shit.* Although he steadfastly resisted any allegorical or especially autobiographical interpretations of his work, this makes the ending when Frodo goes to a Valhalla-like place because he feels he can no longer live among the normie hobbits a pretty poignant allusion to PTSD. The hobbits are the English gentry, comfortable in their cozy homes and concerned only with food and relaxing with their pipes, and totally unconcerned with the goings on outside their little shire. But then a few of them are drawn by necessity into a, well, world war, and they are so scarred by it that they can never really return, even once the war has ended.
Tolkien also maintained that Sauron and his armies were simply an archetypal Big Bad, allegorical of nothing. And I’m willing to take his word on that one, but for the record a WWI veteran writing from ~1938-~1948 about a great evil re-emerging to take another shot at world domination after lying dormant licking his wounds since the last time the whole world came together to foil a similar bid, well, that’s an interesting coincidence.
So while I think it adds nothing to LOTR to think of Sauron as Hitler and the orcs as his nazi foot soldiers, and the hobbits, elves, humans et al as the Allies, if you must view high fantasy through the prism of history and extratextual context, that’s the obvious reading.
I mention it because one of the most woketarded critiques of LOTR that I’ve now seen several times is that Tolkien invested the orcs with anti-black racism. So aside from the obvious point that if you think any creature that is ugly, dumb, violent, and evil is “black-coded,” *you* might be the racist, and also the fact that there’s simply no reason to suspect this of Tolkien, you’d have to stick your head deeply up your own ass to fail to see the if the orcs are “anything” (they aren’t), they are German.
I used to think that Black Speech sounded vaguely German due to the harsh consonants and gutturals.
I saw a WWI propaganda poster long ago that indeed showed the Huns (Germans) depicted monstrously in a way that was eerily very similar to an Orc.
I think there's a LOT more to this line of thinking (WWI influence) than is given credit.
Another example is characters being upset about what the war machine was doing to the forests, and WWI absolutely destroyed the landscape, as well as leveraged the massive growth of industry and mining, coal, metal working factories etc the likes of which had never previously been imagined, at least at such a scale. I visited a couple of these old factories in both Germany and the UK and they must have been horrible terrifying places to work. The noise alone probably caused permanent hearing damage, not to mention heat and smoke and giant machines that could easily kill you. The machines and even the brick work of the buildings is massive and intimidating beyond imagination.
While the film The Metropolis doesn't do the machines justice remotely in person, I can totally see how that kind of artwork would be inspired in roughly the same period.
Thank you, just thank you, for taking the time to write those thoughts down.
I'm just sick and tired of these woke idiots blathering on and on about garbage nonsense.
Afterthought: Y'know, speaking as someone who took Literature as a first course before I quit, this is why I never really believed in that Reader-Response criticism, why I refused to take it seriously - we have woketards right now "interpreting" the Orcs as black people, just for example, which is utter nonsense. It just seems to make more sense that in order to properly interpret a work, you look to the author and the text, not the random idiot or junkie who will pull all kinds of things out of their ass that has zero basis in reality.
So, when you read germans into the orcs and not black people, you AREN'T racist now?
I argued that last point with a friend and my sil the other night until I was blue in the face. They refused to move from the point that Tolkein hard coded racist overtones into his work and that orcs represented black people. Then they said that they still enjoyed it andwere fans of it even though it was racist. When I asked how they could possibly enjoy and be fans of something that is overtly racist and hateful they said because it's just stupid fantasy and they don't really care about it and I shouldn't either.
Never argue with normies about this stuff because it will infuriate and depress you. They literally do not care about the things we like but they do care about ensuring that we can't enjoy the things we like.
Tolkien fought at the fucking Somme. He experienced depths what we can’t imagine. It shows in the quality of his works.
Lots of people in Hollywood seems to forget that when you're in the *entertainment* industry and you don't *entertain* you lose your job.
apparently they don't lose their job, but get complimented on being inclusive
And …. 50% of your stock prices. Right Disney ?
Key word mentioned during this: Corporate. The art comes 2nd now to the churning process. McDonaldisation has been present in Music industry for many years but the MCU has introduced it to the film industry
I think people were gaslit by TLJ fans into thinking knives out was actually some kind of masterpiece. Just rewatched because of a friend, and I couldn't believe how stupid the plot was. I can't wait for this phenomenon to happen again with glass onion
Nah knives out is good
This whole conflict could've been solved very easily if Yu had literally any other name on the planet so they would've gone " Leroy Jenkins did this" instead of " Yu did this".
Knives out was actually pretty good. And I hated TLJ.
@@miket3910 no
@@noelv1976 it was a who dun it film where every character was stupid and the main suspect was actually the killer WOOOOOOOOOW AMAZING. Also it sure was funny that rian wrote in a strawman of his twitter haters into his film "wow an alt-right kid who's aroused by dead deers" rian is a genius 😲😲😲😲
I just struggle to find passion in Hollywood’s storytelling anymore.
@Ман ван данн And I don't think that's a bad thing.
But at the same time, greatness is becoming the exception not the norm.
@Ман ван данн if you need to see your race or gender in film to "identify" with it, something is very wrong
There is no such thing as Storytelling in Hwood. There are only ‘Focus Groups’
Writing. Writing. Writing.
The current crop of writers all come from perfect lives, in the sense that they've never faced actual danger. War? Famine? Hell, a punch to the face? None of it. They've probably never faced an actual rejection. So when it comes time to write an actual story and characters they can only think of the one time a man gave them a mean look.
They will soon be experiencing war, famine, and the other "dark clouds" that are coming. We were living in a Halcyon era from the 1990s to 2000s. We are now entering a world of colossal pain akin to the 1930s and 1940s.
There's SO much space to fill up that now they're just making content. They don't care whether it's good or not just get it made and put it out. Gotta have stuff for them to watch and fill up those otherwise empty slots. Streaming services are killing the quality of entertainment.
Close but no cigar so many public domain movies TV shows and radio shows that it wouldn't cost a cent to show that are not being shown, a lot of which are quite good.
The shadow
The weird circle
the challenge of the Yukon / Sergeant Preston of the Yukon
Rocky Jones space ranger
Escape
Dimension x
Exploring tomorrow
X - 1
Mark trail
The adventures of Superman radio series
Sherlock Holmes with basil rathbone and Nigel Bruce also several movies that barely get shown
Another very well done Sherlock Holmes series with Sir John gilgood and Sir Ralph Richardson and Orson Welles in the last episode? As Moriarty just to name a few. A few syndicated old time radio shows stations might actually get the cost of running these big-name super in debt radio corporations down as well as being entertaining to many listeners who probably have never heard of them before.
@@thephoenixhasflown PAY ATTENTION! Most idiots will not watch programs or movies made by previous generations. They're not interested in anything in black & white or starting anyone over 40. They'd rather watch sjw crap written by children FOR children who don't know any better.
@@jimkirk4357 if that's the case then we are screwed moving forward I really hope that's not true.
@@jimkirk4357 oh and also if I was even babysitting someone else's kids at my house there wouldn't be a single one of these crap shows fusing my television that I bought and paid for with my sweat and toil and I'm actually not kidding. I got it old school. Raking leaves shoveling snow fall winter spring saved up barely enough money went out and got it at the store.
The equivalent 10 years ago would have been if Walmart had an insatiable hunger for new movies to fill their DVD Bargain Bins. "We need more crappy movies to sell for $4!!!"
Back in the day, the things we love - from comics to football - were created and put out by people who made about as much money as we did. Footballers weren't millionaires. Comic book creators made a decent living if they were prolific, but they lived like ordinary folks. When the money men took over and it became a big business, that's when the core fans started to desert them. Because there was a real sense of being patronised. The creators were no longer "one of us".
no, they stopped 'creating because they wanted to create something', and started to 'create to earn a lot of money'. The first makes gems, the second shit
The "I'M A FAN, SO I UNDERSTAND WHAT (FRANCHISE NAME) IS ALL ABOUT" thing is what killed Star Wars. Abrams was one of the bitter Gen X "the prequels ruined my head canon" types and thought remaking A New Hope would "bring back the magic of Star Wars" and in doing so, ironically, assassinated every OT character in the movie.
The sequels were a hate letter to the prequel trilogy, and treated the original trilogy even worse.
@@theunknowncommenter725 the sequels were just a power struggle between arrogant and selfcentered producers who cared more about one-upping each other's works than actually making something fans would want to watch. Like, when you pick apart the movies, you can literally see where scenes and dialogue is put in simply to fuck with the other producer of the prior movie.. It's so fucking dumb and Disney being Disney don't have the balls to stop this bullshit. Why the fuck it is that the corporations with most money and influence, are simultaneously the most passive little shits who are afraid of taking a stance against anything except their viewers?
Just what I was thinking about
@@Real_MisterSir Prob same reason big, top-down (versus bottom-up) gov sucks at governing individuals particularly well, or doing anything with efficiency... everything is a statistic instead of being as close to individual or specific.
[Rant
_The mass of people aren't seen, felt or understood as other humans we might live next door to or be friends with, but just as blank-cardboard-cut-out strangers, or numbers on a page full of statistical data. it's no way to go about treating other human beings unless you have absolutely no other choice.
(which is why the Constitution of the USA and it's founding gov. was based on a small overall Nat/Fed and meant to give more power as you went down to State and local levels; ground up instead of top down... they knew it was a better design for dealing with humans fairly and on a more personal, situational level, just as your own family, friends, neighbors, community etc are going to know you better than some company or agency run from 4 states over who never knew you existed, nor anything about you unless you've done something illegal that someone else noticed and reported... and then you just become THAT. Human psychology being what it is, these things were considered by the Founding Fathers and they set up the gov the way they did for good reasons is my point) /rant]
I know one thing. Everyone owes George Lucas an apology.
whatever sins he commited with star wars, he has more than paid for them. i love the prequels, warts and all. because there was a story there with characters you love and hate, in a breathing living galaxy.
I don’t. The prequels are still shit and I paid to see them all like a goon.
@@maxacorn Yeah. At this point, even Jar Jar Binks is a better fleshed out character than anyone in the latest trilogy.
I miss the time when the biggest problem was level of execution of a great story.
@The Shadow Knows! He sold to Disney because the fans gave him so much abuse for the prequels. (Disney Star Wars is literally the Fandom Penance). And then of course he was duped by Bob Iger, who told him they would use his story ideas and then threw them all away once he got the rights.
By the way, George's ideas for the sequel trilogy were sick. Too bad we'll never see them.
If you don't have a God, you'll make one.
These people have made themselves god. They are going to reshape humanity whether we like it or not.
These people worship at a shrine of funko pops of the sequal trilogy
They are going to fail, but everyone else pays the price.
i then reject humanity, in such a case, depending
Over my Dead body
Only if you let them. Which I won't let them.
At risk of sounding old, there is some advantage being part of the generation that came to adulthood during the “bad old times” and was witness to “society getting better”. We can appreciate it more than with the newer generation, having been born during “better” and having no context on appreciating it.
I think for me, not being that old (early 90s), I still resonate with this mindset, and I think for me especially the key was being born and growing up before smartphones and the internet had taken over every life aspect. My childhood was, compared to modern day, very much an oldschool upbringing, and I appreciate what digitalization has been able to do - but in no way do I envy people who haven't experienced anything other than digital lives. I say this as someone who due to work and hobbies depend on my pc 10 hours a day at least, but I know the difference between using online media, and being a slave to it and not knowing what it means to turn it off and base one's entire life and personality around it.
As a writer myself, I understand the need to develop strong characters and a compelling story. I'm a lefty and pretty passionate about sticking up for people who are getting fucked over! However, my writing doesn't reflect my political views, my stories aren't concerned with sexuality or virtue signalling. If a group of people of mixed ethnicity are trapped in a cabin by a monster that wants to fucking eat them and they're trying to fight back, there's no social message, the only point is terror and more terror! That's it! If a story has a Mary-Sue character, fuck with the audience and kill the Mary-Sue halfway! That'll fuck 'em!!
"However, my writing doesn't reflect my political views"
I'd argue that's almost literally impossible.
but I figure the difference is that you attempt to not hit people over the head with it.
like, even many classic movies that aren't usually considered "woke" or anything had certain aspects to it. e.g. somebody who thought women only made for mothers and should be "in the kitchen" wouldn't have come up with the character of Ripley in "Alien/Aliens" and her whole plot.
@@xxxaragon It was Ridley Scott who came up with that idea (I think!! Don't quote me on that! I seem to remember that he said that an interview though when I can't remember! The passing of time and middle age senility kinda' upturned my memory! Lol!!) Women like Ripley in movies were often subject to a horribly violent death or running around in their underwear getting chased by the killer or monster at that time! Ridley Scott thought he would buck the trend, what Dan O'Bannon thought of it I'm not too sure! I on the other hand am just out to tell a good story with compelling characters! I grew up on comedy like Bottom, Fast Show, The Young Ones, Monty Python and Kenny Everett! I grew up on films like Raiders, Alien, Aliens, Predator, Extreme Prejudice, 48 Hours, Southern Comfort, 70's and 80's horror films plus video nasties! I fucking hate what has happened to modern entertainment which is why I stick with independent films like The Void (A love letter to 80's horror!) Or the South Korean made R-Point! I miss well made, well written, directed and acted films that don't ram the big cock of righteousness down our throats! If they claim She-Hulk is a comedy its as funny as having a wank with sandpaper gloves! It should be done like Airplane, just take the piss out of it!!
God I wish 1984 and Idiocrasy were fiction again.
You know Orwell was a Democratic socialist right?
The real 1984 had more actual civil liberties.
You say that as if they ever were.
its not 1984, its the brave new world lmao
@@michaelkrull3331 I have been saying for years now that the dreaded zombie apocalypse has been ongoing in front of our eyes.
Drinker I doubt you'll see this, but your answer to why? Is the ESG rating, these companies have to have a good rating to get investments. It's called stake holders my man, those are more important than share holders. Look at the country Sri Lanka, had the highest rating in the world, now the country went bankrupt. That's Merca future
it's not ESG, Ya Boy Zack explained this
It is ESG. But it’s also lack of talent
It's sort of the other way around. Sri Lanka was more of an experiment to see how building a nation around these ratings would work, but in general ESG shit isn't a prescriptive but a smokescreen through which they launder money - typically stolen from the taxpayer - to prop up otherwise failed corporate ideas. It just so happens that the ESG ratings are perfectly aligned with the ideological filth being peddled according to no real metric or proof that it helps, but simply because this is what was selected to tear apart society and induce a controlled demolition.
TL;DR - ESG isn't something to which corporations are slaved, it was created to keep them from going bankrupt. It's why these corporations don't seem to care about your money - they're already getting it, stolen from your pocket, and anything you actually pay them is just a bonus.
It used to start with a writer shopping a script around, they'd managed to get a director to help them shop it around, and then they'd get the buy from a studio to go and make it happen. So it started with a passion for a story. Now it's the other way around; studios greenlit stories and then shop for a director and multiple writers, so you end up with people just glad to have job making it, not people who are passionate about the story.
There's a huge difference between "I'm a fan!" and actually knowing the source material. I can honestly say that I'm a fan of Wonder Woman... absolutely love her, one of my favorite DC characters... but also, I've never read a single one of her comic books. Ever. I don't know Wonder Woman's full back story or her adventures or anything like that, I love her because of the 70's TV series and Saturday morning cartoons. And let's face it, that just ISN'T the same thing. At. All. Can I still say I'm a fan? Sure, and it's true! But that doesn't mean I know anything about the real source material behind Wonder Woman.
And I think that's half the problem, right there. You get these idiot writers who can say anything they want to in order to get a gig as a writer, and then scramble to catch up on whatever source material they can get while desperately under a very strict deadline to create a believable script. That's how you get this garbage being rolled out of Hollywood... writers who say "I'm a Star Wars fan!" or "I'm a Tolkien fan!" and likely being 100% honest... and not remotely close to understanding the source material. They probably saw Star Wars once and enjoyed it, or the Lord of the Rings movies once or twice, and they figure "Whelp... I'm an expert! I can take it from here!" And good God... no, they can not.
And worse, we have the political pundits sobbing and screaming at the top of their lungs about diversity and equality (while having very little actual understanding of what those terms mean), and those pundits are in charge over in Hollywood. And if you expect to survive in show biz, you toe the line, because you won't go anywhere if you don't. Thus, we have this dime-store trash rolling out of Hollywood, spending too damn much money on CGI and brand-of-the-week stars and not enough on quality entertainment.
They'll never learn...
Pretty much this. You can be a fan and not win the nerd contest. Even if i had an encyclopedic knowledge of Tolkien and was an amazing writer, i would never dare to try to write something new to be the next Tolkien cannon. That's just wrong on so many levels.
Yes like SO many GoT fans haven't read the books or didn't even knew Asoiaf lore existed before they saw a popular smart, powerful and sex filled show
drinker needs to drop a “i have a dream” speech to save the film industry 🤣
Senator Armstrong already gave the perfect one. It applies to everything, from politics to media.
I think the term "emotional sadist" might be a good term to describe people that are brought on to write and produce adaptations of these stories and then take malicious glee in destroying the fandom of that property.
I think that good movies have become harder to make now because writers can't just sit down and write the story that's in their heart anymore. These days they have to worry about any part of their story hurting someone's feelings.
I mean, after finishing his/her story, they have to think:
It's my book, my vision. Do I have to make it diverse?
Am I allowed to write my women that sexy?
I changed my white hero character to black to be more inclusive, but I had my white hero ordering fried chicken at the restaurant. Do I have to change what he ordered now?
Writers never had to worry about all this crap before. Now they are either forced to, or feel like they have to make modern-day alterations in fear of reviewer/customer backlash or poor sales.
When your society goes authoritarian, creativity is the first casualty.
Currently I am watching an anime masterpiece called Made in Abyss (the 2nd season) Thank God that Asians exist and especially Japanese to remind us what is a good story with truly complex characters, you know like Europeans and Americans used to do till 20-15 years before.
Does it get progressively brutal?
They even do “muh trope subversion” better. One Punch Man is a subversion of capeshit and is all the better for it, as opposed to stuff like The Last Jedi
Agreed. We’re honestly saved by Japan and anime existing. They just make things that can vary between serious, complex, and just downright fun.
The crap we’re getting over here like She-Hulk…god what trash.
Japans creative philosophy is the not just better than ours, I’d argue it’s OBJECTIVELY better. Reason being is they have outlets designed to funnel extra money from long running money printers (Naruto, One Piece, DBZ, etc.) to then nurture and develope new/Unkown/Slept on material into the NEW money printers. Thats how we have Demon Slayer, My Hero, JJKaizen… the new printers. They’ve created multiple generations of IP layered together that push everything forward. What’s worse, is Disney alone probably dwarfs the ENTIRE Japanese ent. Industry in terms of funding. If they just put .01% of the cheese into a “New IP Department”, what might come out of that could keep the lights on for the next 100 yrs. Japan understands this, I don’t know why ANYONE else does. It’s not against any political agenda, it’s not even a big financial risk, it’s just good BUSINESS.
Chinese anime is better.
Just watched the first Rambo movie and it's still so good, you really feel for the character the neglected soldier coming home from a heavily protested war. Todays writers are like the police chief bored in a dull town harrassing Rambo the brave guy that actually did acts of heroism. It's a great point that good storytelling actually comes from not just imagination but real life experience!
Nothing more heroic than committing war crimes in a conflict Americans had no business in.
@@MagcargoMan Dude I'm not gonna debate the politics behind the vietnam war the point of Rambo is being shunned by your own country after fighting in its war seeing your friends killed and coming home with ptsd. You do know that soviets during the cold war were also meddling with states stoking communism which probably wrecked a third of global economies so Americans resisting it even going too far in places maybe had a point?
@@joeschmoe3665 Yeah, we get it, America is the saviour of the world and can do no wrong. Next you'll defend how they trained the rebels in the Middle East who later became terrorist organisations.
There used to be “writers” in Hollywood who had a personal burning need to tell a story. Now, there are “teams” of young people who have no life experiences that have a deadline to release a film. Films used to be a restaurant experience where you got personal memorable meals made with unique recipes; now films are a McDonalds experience where you get bland comfort food films.
We have reached the age of unoriginality and lack of passion.
Nothing good can be made.
Not from Hollywood anyway… but Daily Wire on the other hand is making moves
From corporate, yes. Now is the time for new creators to rise. To quote Razorfist: the Iron Age has begun
I have basically stopped watching most of the new shows and films now, if you don’t watch, it never happened.
I think part of the problem is that even if a genuinely creative person with worthy ideas does present to a studio with clout, those studios don't see film media as art or entertainment anymore; it's all product, meant to fill up numbers for investors and tick fashionable boxes for activists. Creating intelligent, polished, compelling new stories is difficult, time-consuming work that carries financial risk, and it's easier for studios to make shallow, quick content with token connections to established material. There simply isn't room for good writing in their model; it slows down the relentless content conveyor belt and doesn't guarantee at least some predictable return.
Do you guys remember in Captain America: Winter Soldier, when Steve is talking over the intercom to S.H.I.E.L.D.? That's what listening to you and people like you feels like.
Now, if only the people at Disney would react the same way.
Drinker's orders?
Nerdrotic hit it out of the park. As an indie writer, my goal is to craft stories from as real of experiences as I can. Hiking down a mountain, bushcraft, fishing, sparring, shooting... I take these from real life and translate to page in a sci-fi or fantasy tale.
The issue is the 3rd-generation grandchildren of college graduates have no exposure to the working-class lifestyle. This is why every 80 years things begin to go to shit. They believe the world runs on nepotism and classism because that’s how they got to their position in life.
Creativity requires facing actual struggles in life other than getting into an Ivy League university.
Agreed but we all know who's to blame: their own parents and the environment they grew up in.
Yep classic projection those people
When a one bedroom apartment in a shit part of town or 50 miles one way from your work is $1200 a month plus first and last months rent and they want you to buy a streaming service that automatically hates and insuls you for simply existing? No thanks
I'm in the market for an apartment so tell me which company so I can avoid them like the plague.
1200 bucks? You obviously don’t live in California. That much money won’t even get you that anymore. And this is the same state that plays host to all these media and technological oligopolies.
Little platoon is a great addition to the discussion, love his content.
Agree. Particularly his epic monologue from 4:15 to 5:45.
I don't entirely buy this notion that you can't be a good writer unless you've lived through hardship. True, most excellent writers have lived through tough times in one way or another, but isn't part of the purpose of stories to learn from another's experience? You'd think that people who are truly devoted to the art would care enough to learn these lessons at least by absorbing it through art, regardless if they're from a privileged background or not.
I'm more convinced that the problem lies in the modern culture surrounding media, where it's looked at in a more cynical way as a commodity to be used and discarded as soon as the next thing comes along. There is no sincerity or depth to the way people interact with it, so each new film, show, game or work of literature is experienced as little more than a temporary high. Add on top of that the universality of modern political discourse and all the bureaucracy surrounding that, it's no wonder our media sucks ass.
Its not absolutely necessary but it is almost so. Most great writers started their career in their 40s, and there's a good reason for that. How can you truly write about or understand humanity, hardship, and drama if you haven't lived it and gone through it?
@@christophertaylor9100 So basically because I wasn't born in a time where I wasn't conscripted into a war, I should just do nothing with my stories or ideas and live a life of mediocrity where nothing I've done will be remembered after I'm gone?
@@MagcargoMan If you're going to try to be an author you should spend more time on reading comprehension
Most productions simply are that, productions. The artistic spark that is required for really good movies and series is as elusive as ever and simply cannot be mass produced with lots of money and comittees.
Actually, it could. Because that spark exists within many writers and producers - but they're not getting jobs because the large productions just want to make simple, straight forward, flashy shallow easy-to-market shitshows that can be copy pasted 10 times with different settings and no one will bat an eye because it's all garbo saturday flick material anyways. It makes their job easier because when everyone are pumping out shit, suddenly the marketability of shit isn't as bad in comparison to the rest of your competition.
@@Real_MisterSir no it can't. What most production lacks is direction. In other words a visionary, an comic artist can't tell a story due to the fact that he never train or or prepared to write or to tell a story. A story needs this elements concept, characters and most important setting. It also acquires good ideas.
You speak the truth. Creativity is kinda gone and cannot be reclaimed
It's very depressing. The days when an amazingly creative, original film that seemingly came out of nowhere are longgggg gone..... why? There is amazing technology available now so it couldn't be easier to create content, but the main ingredient is GLARINGLY missing..... creative genius.... Where have all the geniuses gone?
Buried by CZcams and tic toc. No one has time or attention span for movies.
And by posting that comment here, you prove the point.
One need not be quite a genius, just creative and good will do.
This is just a theory but on average less intelligent people have slightly more kids than more intelligent people, thereby through evolution humanity is slowly getting stupider, therefore less geniuses. It is not a conspiracy either, the average IQ in the USA has been going down for some time.
It no longer speaks English, because the parasites took over. Drinker keeps talking about the importance of character and story over visuals and fluff, and that requires writers who want to make art. No-one wants to make art in Hollywood. They want others to make art while they make money. They've just run out of suckers.
They made a good point that the goal of these tools is to ruin things for the fans... petty, evil nihilists.
The one thing we had more of - and we still have a few out there - are writers with talent who write from their imagination. What has proliferated throughout the writing industry are people who have gone to school to be a writer: they have the degree they bought for $50k that says they completed classwork that says they are a writer. They may be familiar with the "theory" of writing, but they lack any real talent for it; but since they've also been groomed to know what the industry values these days, they are more qualified than anyone with natural talent alone.
Assembly Line Hollywood Writers.
The NPCs come pre-assembled.
It's weird that people seem so resistant to call out modern movies and TV and get mad at anyone being "overly critical" of trash things but you don't see that in other mediums. I see big youtubers like stockman desperately pretending like rings of power isn't complete trash or refusing to say anything scathing about star wars like it deserves but I don't see that in say the music industry. If you posted a video about how trash modern music is you would get almost no pushback. Everyone would agree and if you played old music for someone who has grown up on modern pop they would instantly see its way better, in fact there is an entire side of youtube of people doing this. The same goes for modern art or video games or anything else creative. But when it comes to film or TV there is still a huge swath of people that seem incapable or unwilling to acknowledge how trash it is. Dogshit writing, incoherent plots, unlikeable characters, nine of it bothers them. They are just fine with whatever slop gets force fed to them. If you make a video saying modern gaming is trash and it was better 15 years ago, nobody will make a response arguing the opposite, but you say modern movies are trash and you will get plenty of people accusing you of being a fake outrage reviewer. Why is it that film is the one art form where we are apparently not allowed to demand quality?
Because the corporate media has the industry's back. They're practically the studios' mouthpieces and pump out copypasta'd propaganda for them at a constant rate. As we've seen with politics, there are many people who take every headline as absolute truth without question.
There are some things worth nothing. Back then there was also crap music but it was either forgotten with time or it was so campy it's funny nowadays, so of course it was mostly the good music that passed the test of time. After Auto-tune became prevalent most of the music production turned to crap, so we understand the root cause. On the other hand, the present movies and TV are not made to tell good stories. They are made to be political and to have a pseudo-progressive brainwash purpose, so when you say that a show like She-Hulk is crap, for example, you are not talking about the low quality of the production. You are basically saying that woke feminism is crap, that Hillary Clinton is a feminist psychopath, that Biden is a puppet with Alzheimer, or that anything that AOC barks is complete bullshit. So, if you criticize She-Hulk you are basically an incel or a MAGA supporter or both, because remember it's all about politics. They are just brainwashing society to vote for those losers.
Now going back to music. Recently, Demi Lovato came out as non-binary and decided to change her gender pronouns. Go try to explain that "her" music is crap and see the angry mob that will come at you, because remember it's all about politics. They don't want to make good stuff, they just want to gaslight everyone.
@@JoaoPedroPT696 The funny thing is, I hear that she started calling herself a girl again...Never a dull moment....
Scratch video games off the list though because they definitely do the same with games and use them for agendas, with their shill journalists
I’ve stumbled into Little Platoon’s channel the other day and I’m glad I did: the guy is solid.
Sad thing is that there ARE great stories out there written every day that will never see the light of day- since the writers/creators aren’t anywhere near the good graces of getting in the club to show it off. Thankfully the internet has allowed some independent talent to seep through without needing a big production company to make it, but even so it’s the big companies that have the cash to push it through to something even better.
I can only hope there will be a massive renaissance; people just want to be entertained. The king needs to kick out this court jester and get a new one, because he sucks right now.
These Hollywood film makers today are like Salieri in "Amadeus"...He knew he could never create anything as good as Mozart, so he set out to destroy the man completely.
Bingo!
Sad thing is, the real Salieri was not a villain. I get that movies need antagonists, but is it really necessary to vilify people who never were so?
@@verilyheld Hollywood does that all the time. Captain Bligh is a perfect example.
It's astonishing how bad the last Jedi is. All the sequels are bad but last Jedi definitely is ridiculous. It's just so bad that you can't believe someone wrote this and thought it was good. You kind of have to watch it once just to see how far down the spiral Star wars has gone.
I find my self not even a star wars fan anymore. I am literally apathetic to anything star wars. I have a vast book collection (favorites included Darth Bane trilogy and Shatterpoint) that collects dust. I have no interest in even re-watching the OT or Prequels anymore.
I can only imagine how much potential money they are losing because I'm sure there are MANY more like me out there.
@@edwardp7725 oh yeah. I stopped caring about Star wars a long time ago.
I should say I quite loved Rogue One but that was produced by someone who worked for Lucas before Disney.
All these shows I've seen an episode or two and it's just "meh." Never got into Darth Bane but I imagine the author would have been a perfect fit for a show writer. Personally would have loved to see them try and get the authors of "Tales of the Bounty Hunters" or "Thrawn" series."
@@edwardp7725 it's still worth watching the OT and prequels. I just don't care for almost all of the new stuff.
This is my take on it. Do you remember how there would be a popular movie and then there would be a bunch of crap knock-off movies by smaller movie studios. The type of people that made the crap knock-offs are now the ones working for the big studios and are getting to make an official Stars Wars, Star Trek, Terminator, Predator, etc.
Top Gun: Maverick is a beacon of hope
lol, no
I'm always baffled when they remake/reboot stuff that has very little brand recognition among Gen Y or Z. The Netflix series Ratched was an origin story for the nurse from One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest. That's a great film, but it's not as though the world is overflowing with Cuckoo's Nest stans. How much brand recognition is even there?
I watched Dick Tracy last night. It was by far the most fun I had watching a movie and it still managed to be compelling and serious the whole way through
Don't forget The Mask 1994 that movie songs still stuck in my head.
As for Dick Tracy there is a radio series most of which is still intact there is a lot of classic movies I think there are two cereals and then there's the 90s movie oh and there's also a cartoon series with a lot of OTR spoof humor in it.
@@thephoenixhasflown I watched the movie from 1990
It's a goofy movie about 1920s gangsters. But at the same time it's about the man Dick Tracy whose torn between duty and his personal life. Its great
@@Henchgirl7342 Ya, welcome to movies before about 2005 (or 2k~). Re-watched T2 recently and was like, wow that's a great movie; better than i remembered... but really it's only gone up a point or 2 out of 10 because recent movies have become so BAD by comparison! =\
It's the corporatization of everything. It's reaching critical mass and has even infiltrated deeply into our personal lives. Rollerball is trending to be the most accurate movie about the future.
Movies haven't been reduced to just Superhero stuff. There's a lot of great films that are still being made. It's just that they never get the hype and publicity that they need.
I get the impression that most movies and tv shows are filled in by AI. It seems as though the plots and character interactions don't quite understand human nature.
Yes
it's unclear if it is ai but it might as well be that i suppose... given how little these people seem to understand reality and how the bureaucracy has been allowed to grow into such a giant mutant tool of control over everything that it seems to take priority over just about everything else, including entertainment and making money [strangely enough]. All with the motto of "for the greater good we must regulate, rule and re-order"... it would seem the edu system didn't teach enough history, or not well enough in recent years, since it's pretty obvious to those of us who study history a little bit... there are so many examples that can be compared to current trends that i won't get into it all here/now, but things like "when you create a tool it will be used in any way, by any one who can get their hands on it, so be careful what tools you make", "power corrupts, absolute power being the worst in that way", and "the road to Hell is paved with good intentions". Those are good quotes but unless you study some examples in history, maybe live through some stuff where those apply... they're just words on a page and not wisdom in someone's head, i guess.
Hey Drinker, you should review Genndy Tartakovskys "Primal". One of the best animations I've seen last decade. Old school animation with samurai jack vibe, good story and visuals and with none dialogue. It shows how brutal the world might be. The series deserves more recognition and reach.
I feel like Little Platoons point about the writer's life experience having an effect on the story they create and its quality is only somewhat accurate but not entirely, particularly when he references the life experiences of writers today who didnt grow up in tougher times like the writers of old. Personally, i feel like a writer who grew up in the modern day could easily make a very well done, well written well rounded story, BUT they have to have an understanding of the true brutality of the real world and how it would work in the show or movie that they are making. They have to put in the work, and trudge through the figurative mud and blood to get the feel for how the story should really be. VS how the story should reflect the social/political issues of the current day. You can be a new writer and make a freaking top-tier story, but you have to work at it and for it and the issue is NO ONE wants to do the hard work, or has the will to, its all lazy and bare minimum, because of that we will RARELY get a fantastic story.
It's only once you get experience that you realize how valuable experience actually is.
If one has passion, they can surely either imagine or research to make up for lack of experience. However without passion even experience will not save you. Just assembly line producing the next Batwoman or whatever, you're not going to take an hour to research something and even if you do you're probably going to just do the bare minimum or hand it off to an intern.
@@JohnDoe-xf2ke ok then go join the army bro. Ill wait
Fucking fantastic well said
@@JohnDoe-xf2ke Experience is many things. Simply being empathetic and understanding can be strong tools to educate yourself on the experiences of others etc.
And that isn't something you should discount.
I remember hearing MauLer shout out Little Platoon recently so i subscribed. Glad to see him added to the panel.
When you understand that in many cases competence is sacrificed for ideologically possessed priorities, you start to understand what's really going on.
Does Gary know that if you still vape, you didn't quit smoking?
Drinker, I'd love to hear your thoughts on something you might find interesting. Nerdrotic brought up a point that really rings a bell for me. His notion of the writer's inability to relate to the subject matter because they are so isolated really reminds me of a Netflix show that has a similar issue, but it's uniquely NOT a true problem on that show. "Friends from College" is arguably a great show; it is quite well written and moderately well acted(ish), though not extraordinary by any means. The thing that made me stop watching it was the realization that this was a show written specifically for viewers who grew up wealthy and privileged (which is diametrically opposed to my own experience). The show caters to privileged viewers on a deep level of unspoken understanding, the kind of stuff you can't always isolate to a particular line or scene, but can recognize it played out in full motion. And that's not at all to criticize the show, it just made me very quickly disinterested on a personal level. I would love to hear your analysis on that show, specifically how it relates to the isolated mindset of Disney's showrunners. Sort of a "Here's how to properly write from a narrow mindset, and here's what Disney did instead."
The core problem is the idea of the franchise itself. With a few exceptions the most you can hope is two perfect films. Jackson's Lord of The Rings pulled off a perfect trilogy, but even he stumbled with The Hobbit. The first two Terminator movies were excellent, and could not regain the magic after that. Alien was the same scenario, ditto Predator. Even the Star Wars Original Trilogy (non-special editions) was two great films and a really good one. Perhaps one could argue that James Bond and Mission Impossible show that long term francishes can work....but the odds finally caught OO7 and can anyone match the bloody minded focus of Tom Cruise once he's gone? Films are not hamburger restaurants maybe they just aren't meant to be replicated into infinity.
Harry Potter is also a miracle. The core kids were perfectly cast, and recast Dumbledore perfectly. Got done before diversity checkboxes became a thing. Subsequent JK films have been uneven.
As a minority actor these days, how is it possible to know for sure that you weren't hired as an insurance policy? Just get the [insert token here] out front in the marketing, then label legit criticism as racism/sexism/homophobia to avoid facing the truth.
Your choices are either shrug, shut up and take the money, or work in productions where you are in the majority. It means a smaller audience but an authentic reception.
I mean, a job's a job, so if you get paid six figures to be a token, or insurance against criticism or whatever, its pay. But yeah, I'd like to have more dignity and meaning to my work than that.
"We" are not dumb, the people they hand pick are dumb and not interested in storytelling, they're interested in pushing propaganda. They gatekeep good writers.
Because we are mow a decadant, tired, nihilistic society, comprised of a critical mass of people who have never grown up and therefore can’t write or tell grown up stories. Why have they never grown up? Because they have never needed to. Aggression has become micro-aggression, four minute warnings have become trigger warnings, poverty means being deprived of the latest Apple product. Not to mention that all of our ancestors were stupid, evil or both and we’re infinitely more enlightened now - so drawing inspiration from history is impossible.
I think something I keep at the back of my mind is that is it never seems like people do their research, like read source material, do your homework. I do understand lots of the greats of story telling have passed and you can't get those stories but people need to put in the work! Band of brothers is my favorite series ever and having tom hanks and Spielberg reach out to the actual vets who's stories they want to tell. Now that's how you get real stories and real experience. Have actors go through boot camp and shot a real gun so they can act when it come time to do those things! It's not even that much extra work!
Critical Drinker made a great point in one of his videos that in the 20th century, film writers and directors had experienced real hardship in life. They had grown up in the depression, they had been to war, they had had to work ferociously to build homes and create a stable society. And so they understood and knew how to create characters that had had to deal with those struggles.
Now - we have a generation of writers and directors who genuinely think they've got PTSD because they saw a Trump tweet.
Well the times are about to get real shitty real fast. So in 30 years movies will be better? I'd say the democratization of the mediums creates mountains of crap. The filters need to return. The tech needs to go away. And yet, this round table can't produce 20 minutes of film content they'd like to see? So lazy wins again.
Tyrone made me giggle a few seconds in. Already know I'm in for a good one.
I blame focus groups and movies by committee. Everything is written by a half dozen people, wrung through a few screenings or focus groups. Producers, directors and so on all put their two sense in. All made for the widest audience possible so no one is happy. This is why every movie has to hit half a dozen categories like comedy, drama, action etc while also being normal higher than pg 13. Oh and suitable for international audiences like china while also doing European and American audiences.
7:20 MauLer is spot on.
In the punk rock scene back in the day we called those people "posers". You could smell them from a mile away. They latch on to a particular bandwagon, pretend they've always been a part of it, make vapid shit and move on to the next trend.
ROP is GREEN DAY.
👎
You are right about the life experience part. My father was a teenager when WW2 broke out and he and all of his friends had all kinds of interesting stories about their experiences in the war and the countries they ended up in during the 50s and 60s.
Daredevil and Everything Everywhere All at Once still shows me that good things can still be made. Hell even Spiderman no Way home. lol
Even the bland nostalgia jank fest whose popularity is solely due to riding on the reputation of the old spider man movies is your proof we can still make good stuff? Really?
It’s hilarious how nerdotic looks like he has two arms doing different things lol
I can neither unsee nor stop staring at it.
I've got another 6 years and change before I can retire from the Army. Then I'll push hard into being a writer. I've been building to this for about a decade so far. Hopefully all this experience out in the world will keep me from talking out my ass.
Well said Little Platoon! BTW, I wonder if the thing that the Drinker says around 9:00 is the root here. That some people have this inner hate to just destroy? Its that same mentality like that kid in school who just has this seething hate that just keeps growing, but in this case its adults who never grew out of it. Like the world is populated by characters out of the movie american psycho.
Try stuff Jonathan Tropper's been making. Banshee (Antony Starr) See (Jason Momoa) or Warrior are all really fun action storytelling.
MCU used tobe great because they abided by the rule “ Less is more “. The overall plotline used tobe simple so the audience can wrap their mind around what was going on and world threatning event was not much in the MCU so whenever something big happened it feel like a grand event and make the audience went wild. Every solo movie with their character made their action, every little event that happened feel like it had an impact on the overall world and the audience love it and curious what will happen next. For example : The Battle of New York and its impact was coherently showed throughout the MCU Phase 1 -2 -3 so we feel like we can relate to that. Now with the Multiverse broke loose and too much character showing up that it look like Feige and his goons doesn’t know what to do and just start throwing whatever it’s that “ sound good “ out there. There so much plotline for the audience to care that it feel like a chore to watch these shows and movies. *Quality over Quantity*
I liked Drinker's reference to the innocent purity of old fandom. We used to say we could "lose ourselves" in a work. That's what never happens now. Writers and filmmakers don't lose themselves - their selves are all that they have, and they strangle everything else in a frenzy to make sure that their starved, empty selves are left standing alone on a field of dead wreckage.
To Mauler's point about life experience, Gene Roddenberry was a WWII bomber pilot who flew 87 missions in B17s in the Pacific Theater and survived two crashes flying commercial airliners in the late 1940's before taking a job as an LA motorcycle cop while writing screenplays. His scripts writing for Have Gun, Will Travel and Star Trek had an adventurous feel because he understood adventure because he had lived it.
Tyrone looks exactly how I would imagine a Tyrone looking like.
I used to work with a Tyrone. When people met him after only seeing his name they were shocked he was a 65 year old white guy.
I like how Tyrone just sits there with his folded arms, looking hopeless and helpless like he's just gone through all the seven hells. 😂😂😂
Don't you know? He's one of five white men, the commenter said so LOL
@@christophertaylor9100 - Why? Don't know! The rest of the plot needs to happen. So, don't question it. Okay?
The golden age of creativity is gone ,because very few today, in the media industry have ever faced real and profound hardship.
Absolutely great conversation all around
Historically during times when people feel oppressed their art and forms of expression have exploded. its extremely sad to see everyone's art go through the filter of corporate capitalism during these last few years.
Environment Social Governence(ESG), Marketing Corps, and Governments pay for their failures. They need not make anything good as long as they check criteria boxes.
Eventually that money will run out as well
I know that Drinker is a Star Trek fan, well pre-JJ Abrams star Trek, and so am I, and it's painful to me what's been done to that franchise.
I think of an episode from Deep Space Nine: In The Pale Moonlight, (and there are many others to choose from), but in that one single episode with a runtime of 40-45 minutes you have a master class in story telling and cogent narrative, that is simply beyond the grasp of anything in the post JJ Abrams et al Star Trek universe of complete mediocrity.
That episode has tension, drama, an ethical dilemma that leaves the viewer wondering: what would I have done in Sisko's position and great acting.
Andrew Robinson's (Garak), great speech to Sisko:
"That's why you came to me, isn't it Captain? Because you knew I could do those things that you weren't capable of doing. Well, it worked. And you'll get what you wanted: a war between the Romulans and the Dominion. And if your conscience is bothering you, you should soothe it with the knowledge that you may have just saved the entire Alpha Quadrant, and all it cost was the life of one Romulan senator, one criminal… and the self-respect of one Starfleet officer. I don't know about you, but I'd call that a bargain."
They don't do it like that any more.
"What is happening to us?" These are some brilliant questions Drinker. People are lacking education if you ask me - both the writers/ producers and viewers. So few people have any understanding of our historic and cultural heritage, what proportion now have studied the Bible in any depth or read Homer's The Iliad, Xenophon's the Thirty Thousand... very few I'd say. Nerdotic makes a great point about the lack of military service is any writer's background.
Once upon a time, children were expected to read the great classics. Cicero's entire catalog, the Iliad and Odyssey, Shakespeare and religious treatises on the Bible. They were expected to do calculus at what we would now consider the elementary-school level. And this was in the late 1800s. Then Cicero's works were done away with because the government didn't want anyone reflecting on how a proper aristocracy and representative republic should function. Shakespeare and Homer were labeled "uncool" to keep children from understanding that it's not the biggest and strongest who always wins, but the most clever who can outthink and overcome the opposition. And calculus was removed because we incorporated far less intelligent students into public schools and didn't want to make them feel stupid by their fellow students excelling, for fear they might start fights.
They still start fights and kill people anyway, but it's better for everyone that we don't give your children an education worthy even of the 1800s. Trust us, we're the government.
You know...channels like these make me know I'm not going insane