The Best Budget Controllers for Ableton Live? Akai APC Mini MK2 vs APC Key 25 MK2 // Tutorial/Review
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- čas přidán 4. 06. 2024
- In this video I compare the new Ableton Live budget controllers by Akai, to other available options, including LaunchPad Mini, X and Pro, and LaunchKey 25 Mini and above.
Enjoyed this review? There's a whole book with the ideas, tips and insights from my videos on Patreon:
► / loopop
Check prices here (affiliate links help the channel):
APC Mini MK2:
► Amazon: amzn.to/3BzcZ4r
► Sweetwater: imp.i114863.net/KenR1N
► Thomann: www.thomann.de/intl/search_di...
► Perfect Circuit: link.perfectcircuit.com/t/v1/...
APC KEY 25 MK2:
► Amazon: amzn.to/3FTnYZ2
► Sweetwater: imp.i114863.net/4eQkbn
► Thomann: www.thomann.de/intl/search_di...
► Perfect Circuit: link.perfectcircuit.com/t/v1/...
Don't Panic! Ableton Live Explained in 37 minutes or less:
► • Don't Panic! Ableton L...
Sounds used in this video:
► Massive from Native Instruments (my own presets - lead and bass)
► Drums also from NI (Abbey Road 50s and some other snares I forget from which kit...)
► Mellotron V from Arturia
► Raum is on the reverb send
► Ableton Echo is the delay
Other places I hang out:
► Instagram: / loopopmusic
► Tiktok: / loopopmusic
► Facebook: / loopopmusic
► Twitter: / loopopmusic
► Web: loopopmusic.com
My music:
► Bandcamp: loopop.bandcamp.com
► Spotify: bit.ly/LoopopOnSpotify
► Apple Music: bit.ly/LoopopOnAppleMusic
TIMELINE:
0:00 Intro
1:05 What’s new?
1:40 RGB pads
2:05 Note mode
4:15 Drum mode
4:25 Mini MK2 v 1
4:45 Key25 MK2 v 1
5:35 Key 25 v Mini
7:20 Setup
8:15 Takeover mode
9:10 Soft keys
10:30 Key controls
11:15 Knobs, faders
14:00 Pros & cons
16:45 Outro
Submit review and video ideas here (sorry I don’t offer 1x1 sessions/setup/purchasing advice):
► Ziv (at) loopopmusic.com
NOTE: Occasionally I’ll try out affiliate marketing and include affiliate links. This means that I may earn a commission when you click on or make purchases via affiliate links to stores like Amazon, Sweetwater, Thomann and others. The content of this clip is entirely my opinion, and was not paid for or dictated in any way by the company creating the gear. Without addressing the particulars of products shown here as they might be under NDA, gear shown on this channel may be either sent by the manufacturer, on loan for review or bought at a discount.
![[Eng Sub] AKAI PRO APC KEY 25 midi controller](/img/n.gif)
Man. What a wonderful video this was! 100 percent supporting you buddy! You're amazing! ❤
always good to see a video from someone who know's what to show. I got that apc key 25 thanks to your video. It fits my needs as I live in a travelling bag for years and only on occassion is home and use my other gadgets. this little piece will make my laptop happy .:O) Great video ( I know its 1 year ago) still appreciated
Amazing tune at the end !
THEY WERE SO FUCKING CLOSE MAN. All it took was velocity sensitivity and this would be my ultimate budget controller. WHY CANT WE HAVE A LAUNCHPAD WITH FADERS???
+1!
LAUNCHPAD WITH FADERS AND KNOBS!!! ULTIMATE CONTROLLER.
@@va941 Solid choice of actionsy
Good question. My most complete low-budget setup has a Novation Launchpad X, Korg NanoKontrol2, and Akai MPC mini mk 2. I was hoping that these new Akai APC control surfaces might beat my combination for my backup workstations (saving $ and desk area). I use a plastic cutting board to mount the Launchpad with the NanoKontrol2 below it to handle transport control, faders, mute, solo, and record arm. The MPC is between monitor and computer keyboard. The velocity sensitivity of the MPC and the Launchpad X are useful. I want to study the differences in note mode between the APC and Launchpad.
@@va941 Just consider adding a Korg NanoKontrol2 if you already have a keyboard and a Launchpad. For Ableton, it allows each track to have a fader, a pan knob, and mute/solo/record arm buttons that light up when active. The grouping is more like the DAW screens' grouping than it appears the APC provides. The arrangement view timeline markers can also be set, cleared, and selected sequentially.
You are a product review warrior. Every video on point and a gem to discover. Great work brother! 👊🧡👍
Thank you, so much for the valuable information sir, hats off to you, clear explaination, and slowly explained which was very important to me. Keep going.. keep up the good work
Xlnt review and info to ponder. Demo song was very cool and a great example/inspiration of what can be done with these. thanks so much.
I loved this before showing the gear but ableton live too in the video. Keep it up the good work 👍
Good music always supplied with Loopop reviews!
Such a great video! Really what I needed! Thank you :)
3:10 that scrolling text on the pads is both funny and ingenious, a small oled screen would be so much more elegant.
What is with step recording drums, notes and chords is the most important for me! Like Push and Akai Force!
solid work again as always, thanks mate
This was so helpful!
The new design for these is nice, much improved. They look less budget now
Cute! I love the tiny form factor...always like the smaller alternatives when the desk space is at a premium. $90 is a no brainer too.
When will the bigger models drop? Nice products from Akai, just in time for Christmas.
Sun Machine One might be my favorite Loopop song. Great version!
Thanks
Thnx, you are very help me with choice.🎉
Thanks for this video. I've been intrigued by the APC mini for years but the lack of motorised faders through me off until I saw you do a section about Takeover Modes. I'm new to Ableton Suite and was looking into a Push 2 or APC
Motorzied faders for 90$??? Plus a controller? that doesn't exist. You are asking too much, anything motorized will be at least x2 or x3 sometimes x4 the price. Actually its x10 😂 Same thing goes for motorized DJs.
@@MS7.7 one could always dream. Besides it’s not outside the realms of reality as Beringer did one for reason for about 120£ in the mid 00s with motorised faders
@@whereisko Yes I dream too but I'm realistic too, I would pay not 120 but 200 immediately for device like this with motorize faders. But if any thing in the price range exist let me know because I would love to get it and I couldn't find anything remotely close. Used market makes your dream true but most likely for such price it will need maintenance. Today I received the APC mini mk2 and for the money I can hardly complain. I will get push 2 after while and make APC dedicated for launching clips and volume control and everything else will be on the push.
It does have the annoying Akai mentality which Novation supersedes elegantly but I think its good for secondary device not as main because it will give you headache from pressing shift million times a minute.
@@MS7.7 also not once did I mention price in the original reply. I’ve always wanted mortised faders and deep integration that I wouldn’t have to customise myself, just plug and play. Nothing has truely lived up to it.
was looking at my OG APC40 and thinking, dang it would be nice to have a MKII and he's your video for the mini lol
Wouldn't mind seeing a side-by-side comparison of the APC mini mk2 with Novation's Launchpads.
Check out the pros and cons in this video!
Nice. Now we need a MK2 version of Akai midimix.
YES!!!!!!!! 💯
Ugh, the lack of full Ableton device control on these is even more disappointing than the MiniLab. How can they say they are "built for Live" and not even go the extra step to have device selection and all parameters? I have a 1st gen Maschine that can cycle through devices on a track and all the device's parameters, yet these newer controllers can't.
Anyway, greatly enjoyed the review as always. I'm glad we are finally starting to see some new midi controller gear coming out again, these are my favorite reviews. Can't wait for more.
You can add 8 parameters via macros per track. That gives you 64 faders - too much to remember for me..
@@Sentientfx1 You have to map the macros each time you make a new track, too.
@@peabodyscientific2082 Well I make new macros with each new track. Otherwise they're all going to sound the same..
lol wut? Just saw AKAI's announcement on Twitter and wanted to check if there's a video of it... Here is loopop ahead of the time!
Hey loopop, I just watched this once again and realized the benefits of running both side by side like in the demo here. I noticed that you had both running different parameters at same time and could even spread the grid out between the two on projects greater than 8 tracks without having to toggle direction box focus. Looks like a cool setup with them together!
yes indeed that's what I do here but I'm not sure it's something that's guaranteed to work properly by Akai/Ableton... seems to work fine as far as I saw though!
@@loopop indeed, your example and demo song were inspiring! I hear what saying. I'm considering a home studio setup combo of Oxygen Pro Mini, Minilab 3, APC Mini mk2, APC Key 25 mk2... with Ableton Standard for now. See what seems to mesh and cover as many of the check boxes for me as can for a humble budget.
direction change, looking like an NI M32 for main, APC mini mk2 or Launchpad mk2 for clips, Presonus Atom for larger drum pad/beat making. Saving consideration for Minilab 3, APC Key 25, and Akai Fire/Crossfire(Ableton script) additions or replacements for later. See what fits my workflow.....
I got a great used deal on APC mini mk2 here before selling my older used Launchpad mk2, so I can have both going to see differences in use. Pro/Cons to both honestly...what a surprise. I like the detailed and more up front mode switching in APC mini, slightly more compact desk size, faders for tracks or devices, drum mode, note mode. Don't like that the lights are less brilliant and not as exact color match to Ableton as Launchpad is. Not a fan of no lights upon power up or stand by mode like LP. Pads are on the smaller side for drumming but doable. Not a fan of no firmware software updates or control mode to adjust lights, no vegas mode options, no on off switch. Honest review. More than likely will keep the APC mini for its strengths over the LP, and cope with the cons somehow knowing LP does some of those things better.
More I use the APC mini mk2, the more i like it! Launchpad mk2 up for sale :)
Thanks for the video, this movement towards making controllers for one application worries me that the next apc40 could go the same way.
Thanks for the video. On a side note: upgrading the Piano V2 to V3 is really worth it in my opinion.
True! There are a few sounds I can't quite get in V3 (not the one in the video)
nice one! bought APC mini as a clip launcher and level controller. preordered from amazon £85
got mine for 50 at GC
GC?
@@marc3dguitar center an American retailer
A budget mixer/slider controller I really have found helpful is the novation Launch Control XL - obviously not a direct competitor for these, but for my workflow, good-sized sliders and nice knobs, and I thought it worth mentioning as well!
Spaceballs 👽
For real though, your videos are so helpful! We appreciate you 🎹
I get no lights at all when I connected to ableton.the keys work,sound is fine.is there a button to turn the lights on?or is just a lemon?thank you,great tutorial
I hope that the faders are better quality than the faders on the APC mini MK1. Once those faders didn't work correctly anymore, Ableton went crazy with the volume levels.
Great vid! First time here and....wow! Still new to Ableton with my Novation Launchkey mini MK3, but does they APC Mini MK2 would be a good addition ?
Thanks! Yes, they should work nicely together
Now make a 37 with knobs and faders, velocity sensitive and aftertouch! :)
I've got a Launchkey49, Alesis V25, and Akai MPD32. I'm looking for a 4th device. I'm trying to keep each of these 3 dedicated to controlling the VSTs they're linked to, so my instinct says to favor the Mini MK2 over the Key 25. Can you offer some extra considerations for me here? I'm only just exploring Ableton - I have been using FL Studio for ages but switched to Reaper last year. I'm finding appeal in Ableton now because of the real-time performance aspect. Thoughts?
Great video, was thinking it would be good as an external controller for the mpc live (faders for levels and dedicated pads to trigger stuff when in song mode) but can’t seem to find out if it is customisable as a stand alone midi controller. Would be amazing It it came with an editor like the older native instruments maschine controllers. But it looks like it’s purely a dedicated Ableton thing 😩
Thanks! No editor, unfortunately, but it should work with devices that have MIDI learn. That said, I'd probably get a customizable controller instead.
Still using my APC40 MK1
Thanks for the video, I have a question could one of those be connected thorugh midi to a synth?
Thank you for video!
Does "drum mode" allow sequencing, like in push? If not - than what's the difference between note and modes?
Presumably (assuming it works like other devices) note mode plays notes, typically locked to a scale. Drum mode also plays notes but they are the correct notes to trigger drums - these often don't use consecutive notes and so a standard keyboard arrangement wouldn't work. And it will snap automatically to an Ableton Drum rack and only give you the usable notes, rather than having to scroll down the octaves and then remember which notes trigger the drums.
Beautiful ending 👋
The APC Key is nice if you are a guitarist and want to save space: you can control 5 scenes for the parts of your song / training and you have the keys to enter chords in the piano roll, some bass lines... Yet the keys were totally terrible in the old version, much better to remove those and use it as a small luncher /device controller for a "standard" keyboard that lacks devices and launch pads, es an NI m32.
On and all Novation minis are more fun and useful with the custom modes, yet kudos to AKAI for the multiencoders and the faders: Novation refuses to understand that knobs are unusable and we do want at least small faders / knobs on the launchpads.
Really you can hook guitar to APC Mini mk2 clip
Oh nice would AKAI APC KEY 25 MK2 this work well for guitarist or better the apc mini without keyboard 🎹
I want the APC Mini just so I can watch the names of all the different scales scroll across the pads in huge lettering.
At 4:02 you said it has to have the latest firmware. Does that mean you also have to have the latest version of Ableton ? Or will it work will older versions of Ableton ? Thanks again for your work . Excellent job .
Thanks! I don't think it will work with old versions of Ableton, please check the specs I don't remember by heart
Thanks
Great stuff! Thank you very much; love to follow you here and on Patreon. Can there be a similar video for Logic Pro? Seems like no one is building any controllers specifically for Logic Pro. I would love to have a PUSH styled controller for Logic and run with it. Would be a game changer....
Thanks very much for being here and on Patreon! I don't think they officially support Logic Pro, but I believe Novation does have such integrations. I'm not that yet well versed with Logic unfortunately
@@loopop Thanks, I will keep hoping that someone will release that one day!
Hello, I bought it (apc key mk2), but it looks impossible to map manually the knobs. Do you know why? Thanks!
Nice stuff, but personally am just waiting for a company to snap up the slack and come out with a dedicated Bitwig controller 🤙
Add Logic Pro to that list!
X2
Amen to that. Was just wondering about that while watching this.
@@he-man-music Amen to that! 👍🏿
Amen
How do you setup everything for the APC leds of the matrix actually work?
Ps: how do you setup the knobs?
Hey Loopop, great video. I was actually on the market to pick up the apc40mkii when I saw your video. I’ve seen producers set up up to 3 apc40s together and use them to track out an arrangement. Are you able to use multiple apcminis to do the same ? Thanks
I have the same question. as i have the key 25 and the midi mix. What I want is to sit the midi mix next to the apc mini and have 16 faders available. My guess is the answer is yes as you could independently shift one controller to the next group of 8 tracks. In the case of having 2 apc mini's this should also give you 16 horizontal clip launch buttons with 8 down. All this should be standard behaviour plug and play. Pretty sure I'm right but if you've confirmed it yourself let me know! If that's the case I might go for 2 apc mini's to get 24 tracks of faders with my existing midi mix
Edit: you can. I bought one 😎
From memory I’m pretty sure that the mark 1’s couldn’t. I think it’s only apc 40’s that will chain together.
Oh nice would AKAI APC KEY 25 MK2 this work well for guitarist or better the apc mini without keyboard 🎹
Do the pads on the Key 25 send MIDI messages? I currently use the pads on a Novation Circuit (which is slowly dying) to trigger shortcuts I have MIDI mapped in Ableton. Trying to figure out of the Key 25 would be a good replacement.
Hey! Do you know if it is compatible as a grid for Monome Norns like the mk1?
You should create a video about your dream Ableton controller. Some Photoshop later we'll have something the manufacturers will pay you good money to buy the rights to.
Take it for free! The problem with Push 2 is that you're forced to take it as a big bundle with the pads grid. Just make that standalone, or perhaps bundle it with an APC Key 25 like grid on the left, but with pressure and velocity sensitivity, so they sit above a keyboard. I'll pair that with my keyboard of choice, and launchpad/APC of choice if they make it without the grid.
Whoa damn in note mode it entirely replaces the keyboard. Although pretty insane it isn't tuned in 4ths.
3:51 ah that is a guitar shape, so do you have to set that up every time you turn it on, or can you lock it into 4ths for every time you turn it on?
This got me thinking why there aren't many note grid layouts for guitar/bass players who don't want to fork over the cash for a midi guitar setup - like a EADG kind of bass set up a 4x8 grid possibly could work - just keying in chord shapes could save some time
yeah .. thats maybe the reason why I prefers customizable layouts . It doesn`t matter grid or keys , it should be possible make custom layout to suit our playing style or when jamming for ideas and producing . The funny thing I`ve found freeware ( sadly only for windows OS ) and cheap midi keyboard which offer those possibilities . Now I can shred or play any kind of notes I wanted without too much hassle
Its shame the pads for drum mode on the apc don't light up when used with anything other than Ableton, tried it myself, the note mode lights up though and the controller still sends midi in drum mode though so it's not all bad, for the money it's a very nicely made little unit, and easily used in loads of iOS apps even if it's not natively supported..
Can these be used in conjunction with analog instruments? As in, can i record audio and then trigger with the pads or are they just triggering midi?
Does anyone know if the pads send midi messages when in Ableton Live arrangement view? I'd like to be in arrangement view and MIDI assign some pads to shortcuts like 'loop' or 'show automation'.
where can I find a detailed manual for APC Key 25 MK2?
Explanations about Device Mode are quite clear.
But can you confirm that, in Volume/Pan/Send Mode, the eights faders/knobs do travel with the clip matrix on both Akai's?
(issue mentionned about the Launchpad Mini at 15:00)
The official manuals are not very clear with this, saying "The eight faders will control the volume levels of the first
eight tracks in Ableton Live."
I only have the APC mini mk2, but yes, I just confirmed the volume faders follow the clip matrix moves/focus.... aka fader 8 controls clip track 8, then three moves to right with focus/direction, fader 8 controls clip track 11 then. I just got a used one and more I use/learn it, the more I like it over my older Launchpad mk2.
your composition was beautiful and sounded great. also the various sounds played during the review sounded really good. are they from a particular synth or library?
Thanks very much! There's a full list in the description
I’m surprised that Akai have never made an APC ‘Pro’ version with full size keys rather than mini keys - but, then again - if you look how long the current MPK range has been out without an update, then maybe it’s no surprise at all, as their focus seems to be elsewhere.
can you perform drum rolls on this?
No USB C what year is it again ?
Can you send program changes from the pads? Probably not, right. Due to the lack of programmability.
Not directly, but you could within an Ableton Live clip
great !! So is there any way to upgrade my old apc mini with these new features ? some software update should do that right ?
not that I know, certainly not full color RGB pads
It doesn't look like the retail links are active yet? Do you have any idea when this will be in stock at retailers?
I saw Sweetwater is live with the APC Key 25 but it often takes time on launch day. Thanks for checking the links!
Or can I combine both these together with my Akai MPC one
Got the APC mini yesterday. The only problem is I wish they would have included transport controls. Launching record from the clips mode and switching to drums or notes immediately (which also includes holding down shift) feels very clumsy. This feels like its made for performance than anything else.
Made! I have a question. How I can put color in the pads?
does anyone know if either one has built in speakers?
Is there an editor for APC key?
Why they don't made a simple update for 1st version ?
Hi loopop, I purchased APC Key 25 MK2 after watching this, and I am not able to assign the 8 knobs as custom as it is stated "assignable knobs" on the website. Just wanted to make sure if I'm missing something, or this unit is just built like so. Any information would be much appreciated. Thank you!
Hmmm.... you start saying you bought it after watching my video, but refer to something the website promised you. That's a really odd way to ask a question since I can only be responsible for what I say in the video. Anyway, I stand by what I say this can and can't do in the video. I suggest you contact their tech support if you've been promised something else on their website.
I wish they would make an APC with knobs instead of sliders.
Can I used it with pro tools?
the new mini is a banger product imo
hello, cool tuto again, apc mini i can't find midi mapping (like nano korg), fader full put live fader above 0db , its for live act, quick cut vol .. best vibes
Akai its working on that, they tell me that in their support team....Waiting to them....
@@jonnycoust3657 nice if update midi map come maybe ;) . 10,12 channel model will be great or 6ch model coupled, not exist at decent price ;) best vibes
any luck midi mapping anything with Cmd+M?? it wont work for me :(
Is there a way of setting the root note of the APC Key (i.e., step transpose) which acts like a capo for guitarists.... ?
Just octaves I think
@@loopop
For me, that is a deal breaker. The Arturia Minilab 3 now has step transpose (after many years of begging.. :)
Apc25key&apcmini or apc25key&akaimidimix??
Great review , I don’t see a Click on off button , any work arounds
Thanks and not that I know of
Those look really good and it's surprising to see them being released.
But the next obvious question is - is the APC40 Mk3 coming soon, too?
My question exactly, to which I don't have an answer...
@@loopop Well I'd be slightly pissed because I bought one (still brand new) couple of weeks ago. I mean it's pretty awesome regardless, but if MK3 got velocity sensitive pads + drums/keys/chords mode that would be sweet (and annoying, for me).
@@Artek604 for sure
Man I miss the APC40. Crazy how the quality has gone down.
Hi! I have a question. How I can put color in the pads?
you change the color in Ableton Live and the pads will match
people between this aka, and Arturia lab which u prefer?
Everything I know is in this and my Minilab videos - beyond that - it's about what suits your needs, not mine
Thanks👌
APC mini mk2 can change midi channel ？
Is there a foot pedal input on either one of these for looping? Live STILL doesn't have the ability to set loop length before recording a clip so having a pedal is vital. A glaring omission and I can't believe Ableton still hasn't implemented this.
No pedal input unfortunately on either. Your question got me googling so I'll save you the effort - here are 5 ways: drolez.com/blog/music/live-looping-with-ableton-live.php
These MIDI controllers are intended to work in session view but you mentioned in the video that you’d discuss MIDI controllers that are better suited for arrangement view but never got to it. Which are those? Thank you
At what point in the video? Sorry it was a while ago
Thanks for the reply. At about 1:30 you make a reference to better options if not using session view. Thanks again
@@jdiazkeyz ah ok - there really aren’t any controllers that handle the arrangement in a particular way, I just meant that the sessions keys are redundant if you don’t use session video. The SL MK3 is a good example of a controller that works well in both, and there are cheaper alternatives with fewer features
I wonder if this would play nice with the loop grid in Logic Pro
Anyone making cases for the mini II controller yet?
What about the launchKey?
the old apc mini is available for a low price, is worth it to get the new ? dont really need the key, drum modes. the rgb is convincing though.
I think RGB is a big deal
I want apc mini with probability fill and randomization
We need another album
I am interested in apc mini
No pad velocity, custom mapping, or templates :(
Good update. If you still have the OG, there are (paid for) scripts by a guy going by 'nativeKontrol' (not NI) that do the same things these updates do and then some. Been using his scripts for years to make the MK1 a mini-push.
This sounds interesting, I looked for the script but it doesn't seem to be available for purchase any more?
@@micknorthyard815 That is possible, I think he moved on to other things - 'Arsenal' are the set of scripts.
so many low budget all in one controllers. I feel for noodling and composition the best option still seems to be the minilab 3; one row of clips at a time is enough; and having a little screen with the active parameter is a big bonus. also a midi out and an arpegiator is nice to have; even to compose inside live.
This is why I like Akai. Making shit affordable for me.