How the Finns became White (in America)
Vložit
- čas přidán 20. 08. 2023
- #ancestry #findingyourroots #ancestrydna #dnatest #finns #finland #swedes #familyhistory #genealogy #courtcases
In the compelling narrative of Finnish immigrants, the court case of John Svan stands as a pivotal moment in their quest for whiteness in America. In 1908, Svan's application for naturalized citizenship was initially rejected, as Finnish immigrants were deemed "mongols" and "yellow," and "China Swedes" rendering them ineligible. However, a state supreme court judge offered a remarkable perspective, acknowledging that while the Finns may have had Mongolian origins, their adaptation to the harsh, Northern climate and historical assimilation had turned them into one of "the whitest people in Europe." This significant ruling allowed John Svan and other Finnish immigrants to be recognized as white, affording them the protective benefits and legitimacy of U.S. citizenship, in an era where notions of whiteness were deeply entwined with societal power and acceptance.Who counts as "white" ?
Discover how to leave a meaningful legacy with our "Be a Good Ancestor" course. Learn valuable techniques and insights to preserve and share your family's stories for generations to come. Grab yours now at www.nytonashville.com and embark on a transformative journey of preserving your family's history!
SOURCES AND REFERENCES:
Court Opinion:
www.historymuseumeot.com/mfahs...
www.historymuseumeot.com/mfahs...
Finnish Folk Song:
Library of Congress Archive of Folk Culture, American Folklife Center, 101 Independence Ave. S.E., Washington, DC USA 20540-4610 hdl.loc.gov/loc.afc/folklife.home
Digital Id
hdl.loc.gov/loc.afc/afc1940001...
-----------------
The documentary- series "Finding Lola" is done, but is the journey over?
⚪Support more storytelling and get behind the scenes videos: / about
🟢Watch the docu-series "Finding Lola" : • MY family story of "Wh...
⚪Want to connect? / findinglolafilm
🟢Want to know more? www.findinglolafilm.com
Grab your own Ancestry DNA test now*! : amzn.to/3UxGKJx
--------
Come join me on a new docu-series that explores identity, racial tensions in the South during the 20th century, and the unique experiences of those who historically called Louisiana home.
My name is Danielle Romero, and all my life, I have romanticized Louisiana.
Growing up in New York, it represented a place where I could step back the sepia-toned life of my great grandmother, Lola Perot, who died before I was born.
Now, it was time to go back to Louisiana--although I had no idea what the truth would be or what questions to ask---who was Lola really? Who were we?
*Amazon links are affiliate links. If buy something through these links, we may earn affiliate commission. Thank you for supporting this project!
What do you think about the Finnish experience? Do you have Finnish or Sámi heritage?
🟢Send me a coffee!: ko-fi.com/nytn13#linkModal
⚪ Save YOUR family history with my "Be a Good Ancestor" course. Grab yours now at www.nytonashville.com and embark on a transformative journey of preserving your family's history!
⚪Want to connect? facebook.com/findinglolafilm/ on twitter @ImfindingLola
🟢Grab your own Ancestry DNA test now*! : amzn.to/3UxGKJx
I have Sami roots via Norway, and my spouse has New Sweden in her past. It is quite old though, so it doesn’t really get represented.
One of my college friends 40 years ago, was of an European ancestry that had very Asian features. I can't remember what she said she was, but maybe Finnish. She remarked that all of her family had the same facial features as well as being blonde and blue eyed.
Political do they a role if you are accepted by a racial group look happened after 9/11 when many Muslims and Arabs got blame for the action of a men Christian Arabs are more accept in the West then Muslims and when Covid hit Asians who were view as the Model Minority in up getting attack on the street
I find Finnish society to be interesting. My friend has shared a lot with me. He says Finns are honest, he admits to not usually so open or talkative especially men. Salmon soup is popular, they eat reindeer, love potatoes, into the Northern Lights, just about every Finnish house has a sauna. He said they can drink a lot of course it's not everyone. They love the snow! The Sami people I hear have one of the highest percentage of blood type A. I do have a few mixes but Finnish shows up I think as a sprinkle of admix because of us of any Native or Irish/Viking history could have gotten some, or maybe Mongolian too. People are so diverse and it can shock any of us if we only knew more of our ancestry migration map.
@@tiredoftrolls2629I know two Finnish people but neither had Asian looking eyes. They were blond though.
The racism was quite horrible. Nothing worse than being labeled a Swede.
Russian is worse
@@hi-tl6fiNot, because it's unthinkable anyone would seriously mix a russki with a finn.
A China-Swede not Swede 😂
@@MrBlue-dm5li The China part is okay and cool, but the sw*de part is honestly disgusting.
@@MrMango331 Lol, you do have slanted eyes like them😁
I am an 81 year old fourth generation Finnish American from the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. My grandmother faced the type of discrimination that you talk about. She determined to totally hide her Finnish culture. (She spoke grammatically correct unaccented English.) I had to rediscover my heritage as a 40 year old woman. As long as I don't speak, Finns in Finland think I am Finnish. Had I known Finnish traditions, I would have passed them on to my children. I think it is sad that anyone thinks they have to hide family traditions and culture just to be American enough.
Grandmother came in1902at age 17 by herself to fort Bragg CA, married a Dane their daughter my mother graduated from UC Berkeley in1929 at age 19 my brother became a professor at chico state for 30 years
Trust me a lot of light skinned black people is still doing that in 2023 .
My grand parents hid their truth of being Indigenous Niiji (Indians) as they would end up "strange fruit" in a Poolar Tree in Mississippi!!
There is a large Swedish minority in Finland. A person from Finland may actually be descended from Swedes.
Greetings from a fellow Finn. Be proud of your heritage. Ole ylpeä ja kiitos !
This was really interesting. I am a Finn living in Finland, but back in 1978 - 79 I was a foreign exchange student and graduated from Duluth Central High School. I stayd with a family with a Finnish surname although theur ancestors had moved generations before. But of course I got to meet people with Finnish heritage, some even speaking a few words of Finnish.
The attitude towards Finns was not exactly encouraging; the Finns and the Polish were a bit jokingly said to be slow. The reputation very likely was based on the Finns being generally quiet and not showing much emotions; also the language barrier for Finns has been worse than for other Europeans, as most Europeans speak an Indo-European language related to English.
The video was really interesting, thank you for that!
Wow, thank you! My mother is second generation Finnish American and lived in Wawina. She is blonde and I am white,white blonde.
I grew up and lived most of my life in the US and have been living in Finland for the last 4 years and after being acquainted with Finnish culture here I can totally see how early Finnish immigrants could be seen as slow or unintelligent, nothing could be farther from the truth!! Finnish people are just super reserved, quiet, shy and believe in minding their own business and avoid conflict, but once you get to know a Finn, you have a friend for life, wonderful people!
@@Doktracy Finnish and estonians are the most blond nations. Despite having some ( 3-8%) asian genetics left
@@minaolenella869
All Europeans have "Asian" genes. The Finns just have a drop more.
@@minaolenella869 Isn't it weird? The ones who have most asian genetics are the blondest? Maybe the idea that europeans are de facto blonde blue eyed people is just a myth.
Thank you for covering this topic. I’m 100% Finnish, born in 1961 in Minnesota. My Grandfather worked in the mines. I don’t have any memories of being disparaged for being Finnish. We were proud of our heritage.
An interesting aspect of the culture I grew up in is that Finns are not impressed by wealth and fame. We laugh at our mistakes and whereas people told Polish jokes or Swedish jokes to put down those people Finns love to tell Finnish jokes. We revel in our simplicity.
The other irony I found in your reporting of Finns and Indian being the 2 worst ethnic groups. My youngest sibling is married to an Ojibwa. Their children were lovingly called “Finn-Dians.”
I am proud of my ancestors for staying true to their Finnish culture and for not letting any of those negative stereotypes inform our upbringing. In many ways it didn’t even factor into how they felt about themselves and life in general. We are all mere specs of dust in the universe, all loved equally by whatever intelligence runs it. The people who have power, prestige and wealth just don’t know it - yet.
Thank you for adding to the history! I appreciated reading it
I am a Finn living in Finland and can confirm everything still holds true over here: we really dislike it when people flaunt their wealth (and this makes rappers etc. look like degenerates for the majority of us). An old proverb still tells us to hide our source of luck/happiness/fortune. Finns usually get along great with other nature-loving, peaceful groups (Natives, Japanese etc.) and seem to share many core values.
I like your username!@@turpasauna
@@nytn I really enjoyed your video, keep up the good work! 😊
My grandma used to tell that some of our relatives had moved to Minnesota maybe a century ago. Family name was Mustonen.
I'm Swedish and I just want to let it be known that Finns are a nation that I respect to no end. Fantastic country, fantastic culture, fantastic language. This bizarre tradition of trying to exclude Finns from the cultural sphere of the nordic seems laughable today, how ironic that it would extend into the racial conversation of "whiteness" in the USA! The retroactive facepalm is strong...
Tack ska du ha! Swedes are fine as well. Terveisiä Suomesta 🇫🇮 🇸🇪
Our nations have had....let's just say interesting relations in the past few hundred years. We don't have very positive views on that we were forced to be the eastern part of Sweden for over 650 years. It was basically swedes having all the power and finns were treated as second class citizens and cannon fodder. Some finns would go as far as calling it slavery. However it was thanks to you that we got christianity so it wasn't all bad.
Swedish race propaganda was most likely the biggest reason why finns were not considered white in the late 1800's and early 1900's. In 1873 a swedish anatomist Gustaf Retzius collected the skulls of dead finnish people because he wanted to prove that finns were mongols and that swedes were the superior race when compared to finns. Even in the swedish school books they described finns using derogatory terms and many finnish born children who lived in Sweden during 1960's and 1970's suffered from being bullied because of being a finn. Finns were often associated with low intelligence, alcoholism, aggressive nature and tendency to stab people and commit crimes hence the name finnjävel.
But that is in the past now. That man Retzius was an idiot and people back then were ignorant fools, but It seems that the general swedish view towards finns have changed drastically since then. I don't have any negative feelings towards modern day Sweden or swedes. They are not responsible for something that happened 150 years ago. It's better to look forward and not back and today our countries are as close as two countries can be and there are no negative feelings between our nations.
@@NordicWiseguy"However it was thanks to you that we got Christianity so it wasn't all bad."
Archeological findings have long since shown that Christianity entered the area of Finland before any Swedish crusade.
@@NordicWiseguy "I don't have any negative feelings towards modern day Sweden or swedes. They are not responsible for something that happened 150 years ago. It's better to look forward and not back and today our countries are as close as two countries can be and there are no negative feelings between our nations."
Try telling them they were colonizing Finns. About 90 % of them will vehemently deny it and babble nonsense about being "brother nations" and having a "connection". That is, if they even know anything about it, because for a lot of Swedes, this history isn't even taught. I wonder what brother nation's queen decrees that speaking your own language is a punishable offense?
I'm fine with not holding a grudge, but truth is a lot of post-colonial stuff still goes on here. The absurdity of forcing over 95 % of the population to learn the master race's language and pretending like we're bilingual with much expense being an example.
@@Aivottaja i understand your point but being bitter about what happened hundreds of years ago doesn't solve anything. We can't blame modern day swedes for something that their ancestors did. Doesn't the bible also say that the children are not responsible for their father's sins? It's just better to move on.
If you want to blame someone for mandatory swedish language then blame the morons in our government. They are the ones who push this bilingual nonsense not the swedes.
I love this tidbit on Wikipedia:
"The term jackpine savage was used in northern Minnesota during the early 1900s, referring to the term Indian savage used for Native Americans. Finnish businesses were also harassed with the pretext that they were illegally dealing liquor to Native Americans."
I was constantly smiling and nodding when reading that. It's so Finnish to keep the booze flowing. :D
that and the Finns and there knives they love them!
What ignorance... that ANYONE would think a Finn would ever share or provide anyone else with _their_ booze!
@@goranisacson2502 any Finn would... That's why the amount of booze needs to stay high, so we can invite Swedes and other Germanic to drink with us and laugh at them as they congeal so rapidly...
Only when you grab the Finn's last bottle you might lose your life.. 😇
I'm a Swedish speaking Finn or a Finland Swede. Finland has a population of Swedish speakers that was around 14% of the population in the 1800's. Today we are only 6%. Swedish speakers are mostly located in western and southern coastal regions, about half in dominantly Swedish-speaking areas. Many of my ancestors emigrated to the US (both Finnish and Swedish speakers). Most Swedish speaking Finns were registered as Swedish when they entered the US. That's quite natural; they spoke Swedish (and rarely any Finnish), their names were Swedish, they came from an area that only 100 years before belonged to Sweden and many of them called themselves Swedes, not for nationality, but because of the language and identity. Many of their US descendants are today unaware that their ancestors were native from Finland, they believe they came from Sweden. When they do a little research, they finally find out that their ancestors were born in Finland.
Aren’t Finland Swedes Swedes that decided to move to Finland so wouldn’t they still have pretty high Swedish ancestry or have they mixed with real Finns too much?
There used some 25% Swedish speaking population in the area that is now Finland, as it was the eastern half of Sweden from when borders were first drawn. Swedish was also the administrative language as it was a fully integrated part of Sweden. It’s believed that almost everyone could speak Swedish to some extent at the time. After the area was lost to Russia in 1809 this number slowly diminished. It’s now some 5%. The “finns” migrating to America were often Swedish speakers since the areas where the most migrants came from were (and still are) traditionally Swedish speaking, like Österbotten/Ostrobothnia/Pohjanmaan maakunta.
@@yesplatinum7956 I'm not incredibly educated on the topic, but the Swedish arrivals in Finland and colonisation happened between the 12th and 14th centuries so quite a long time ago. As far as I understand, Swedish-speakers in Finland are genetically closer to Swedes than the rest of the Finnish population, but the genetic differences between Finland Swedes and Finland Finns are not so great. There is, however, a pretty big difference in genetics when comparing Western Finns and Eastern Finns.
@@yesplatinum7956 I feel a bit offended with how you express this question. For the first, we are just as "real" as other Finns. Secondly, nobody "decided" collectively to move to one place or another that then later became one nation or the other. For the genetics part, as far as I know, genetics on the eastern side of the Gulf of Bothnia is not much different from the western side. From what I understood, there are more differences between eastern and western Finland.
@@johansvideor would you consider Sweden who moved to Finland after colonizing them to be real Finns? haha no. I doubt even they themselves considered them to be Finns. Your descendants may be those colonizers but that doesn’t make you a fake Finn, it just makes you less genetically true Finn if what I just said is true. We call Americans Americans even tho most of them don’t have an ounce of American blood in them. Does that make them less American? No. Are they real Americans? Debatable.
I'm Finnish- The race issue is traumatic. In 1922 Sweden established the National Institute for Race Biology which was obsessed with "racial hygiene"; resulting in mass-sterilisation of people with unwanted genes. They would measure skulls to categorize people into good and bad races. Finns were considered Untermesnchen.
Thank you so much for adding this
@@nytn The issues continue onto this day but in different ways, a fair amount of it seems to be overlooked by Finnish government officials who will not allow mandatory Swedish from being left out of the school curriculum despite how it has been deemed countless times to be entirely unnecessary, usually the ministry vocal of this claiming that Swedish is the language of the civilized and refined. Which infuriates me, as they don't realize that this perpetuates century old racism and makes clear mockery of our struggles as a people.
@@RanakaHaiolisin paljon mielummin oppinut jtn muuta kieltä kun suomea, mutta oli pakko opiskella suomea kolmannesta luokasta asti. Me ollaan samaa mieltä, paitsi että koen ettei Suomessa tarvitsisi oppia suomea.
@@RanakaHai Swedish is the language that ties the Nordic peoples together linguistically. Olen tanskalainen myself and we don't like those arrogant bastards either (joke!). The Finns shouldn't let their old animosities rule in this matter. If the Irish can learn English, then you can learn Swedish. Besides, it's an incredibly beautiful language, particularly when spoken slowly with a heavy suomalainen aksentti.
Woooooowww
I am the son of Finnish immigrant parents who left Finland in the 1950s. I grew up in the Northeast in an area with few Finns, so most Americans in my experience knew very little about Finns or Finland and just assumed that we were one of the Germanic Scandinavian nationalities. My attempts to explain to them about how we Finns are different mostly created confusion in their minds. I was never made to feel inferior about my Finnish background - on the contrary, my experience was that we Finns were highly-regarded, especially by people who were old enough to remember how fiercely we fought against the Soviet invaders of Finland during the Winter War.
I like Markoolio and his mom is funny (just a little annoying) but I used to think ill of Finns when younger because all Finnish friends I had (2) were very sore losers who started fights about nothing. One mom were also pretty strict. I had to bring my own bedsheets for sleepover and we had to sleep at 8 pm and leave our phones downstairs and on regular weekdays when I didn’t sleep over they never invited me to dinner.
but I can understand why the view of Finns had gotten better with the years because I heard that Finns used to have high crime and high alcoholism but I think they managed to reduce that and I could see why that would give them a better image. You’d probably know more about this tho I just have very many sleepy thought rn.
I just know because I saw a video about Finnish prisons but maybe Sweden had a similar history who knows
I am planning to learn Finnish in the future btw. Just need to Finnish (haha) the language I’m learning now. I can’t learn 2 complex languages at once. Or at least not in beginner phase.
You do look very Finnish.
"Due to theories..."
No, it's 100% universally accepted fact even in the present day that Finnish is in a non-Indo-European language family called Uralic.
Also Duluth IS in northern Minnesota. Do you even know what you're talking about, or are you just parroting what you read?
I’m reading what I wrote or just speaking off memory. What did I say wrong? I know Duluth is in MN.
You said he moved from Minnesota to Duluth.@@nytn
I misspoke:) thanks for catching it!
Thank you!
This was awesome!
Finns are truly quite unique ethnically and culturally. Even though it was used in a degrading way, it is true that our language, genetics, culture and mindset are in varying degrees "Asian". Mongols are a more distant branch though.
Our oldest belief/religious system was animistic and shamanistic. Christianity arrived quite late here and there are values, a mindset and beliefs that are still present.
It is in NO WAY a coincidence Finns and Native Americans were grouped together and discriminated together. They came along very well, had similar customs, respect for and comfortability towards nature etc. (Also both had trouble holding their liquor.) Mixed marriages became common and there were whole "Findian" communities.
Japanese people and Finns also find familiarity in certain spiritual ways.
The pre-slavic (pre-russian) people of now Russia speak/spoke Mongol and Uralic etc. languages. Finnish is of the finno-ugric branch of uralic languages and originates quite far into northern Asia.
Modern Finns are a mix of those people from close the Uralic Mountains, Swedes etc. nirthern-european neighbours, Russians to some degree and Sami people who we share an older relation but who habited the area already before later migrants. The Sami have much clearer "Asian" features and we are quite mixed. Some Finns have more of the Scandinavian heritage and don't differ much from swedes, some more of Sami and the older layers. We also carry the genes of those people who lived in Europe before the "farmer people" and indo-european speaking people took over Europe. In a way we are more (original) European than any other Europeans.
Artist Björk is Icelandic but that sort of features many Finns have. But others can be as blond and fair as you get.
I hear the "Asian" eyes many of us have may actually be a feature those very early Europeans had and not a result of the Asian bit of our heritage, but might very well be both.
A long rant, sorry.
Got carried away.
It was really good to find out more of the Finnish-American people!
Btw, apparently Harlem in NYC used to be a "Finntown" before it became a black neigbourhood.
Estonians too.
I think we used to be Finns as well.
It’s not a coincidence that we have such similar language, people and customs.
Finns are as related to Native Americans, Mongols and other Asia as much most modern Europeans (who speak Indo-European languages). Indo-European groups descend from the Ancient North Eurasians just like, Uralic, Altaic and Native Americans. So the Finn's "language, genetics, culture and mindset are in varying degrees "Asian"" as much as Europeans. Also, the farmer people are the neolithic Anatolian farmers, who have a genetic presence in Europeans.
What do you think then of Ainu people in Japan? They look more caucasian and were there before japanese.
What about the basques? How similar is their language to uralic? And then again, how can ugrofinic be considered more european if their source is uralic - relatively more (north)eastern than the origin location of indoeurpeans (pontic stepe/anatolia)?
@@josuemontero2675 Neolithic Anatolian farmers, yes. I was too lazy to refresh my memory of the several different migration waves to Europe.
To the rest, no. 😀
This can directly be shown by genetic studies and simply comparing the cultures. The link to Native Americans is cultural rather then genetic. See "shamanistic belt" for reference.
The Russians did not speak Mongolian. The Mongolian language first appeared in Europe in the 12th century, with the conquest of Genghis Khan and his sons. The Russian language belongs to the Slavic family of languages, an Indo-European language group.
Even within Finland itself, there has been a struggle for identity due to it's proximity between Sweden and Russia. The second largest Finnish populations outside of Finland (besides the diaspora in the USA and Canada) lives in Sweden, and followed by Northwestern Russia. The Finns have historically been labeled into both groups, but share very little linguistically, and much like certain other groups within Europe, such as the Balts, Hungarians, Albanians, Basque, etc. are considered a bit of an anomaly within the scope of the 3 most dominant vs. non dominant European groups (Germanic/Nodric, Slavic, Latin/Mediterranean). During the Fennoman movement, the following motto was established, ""We are not Swedes, We do not want to be Russians, So let's be Finns." This period of time is important especially in recognizing a common pre-American issue, which led to mass national awakening across much of Europe during the 19th century, was the battle between larger established ethnic groups in control for territory, and the autonomy of the many smaller communities which often overlapped between these worlds. In the case of Finland, they lay between the Germanic/Nodric and Slavic worlds, and it seems that they have always had some level of assimilation to both cultural spheres.
Well it has been hard to sestablish our own culture and heritage when we have been under others boot and robbed on a chanse to build really our own.
Hell still our goverment looks as Sweden how to do something or whaiting them do the desition of some subject before we take it our selves.
Perkeleen molopäät sielä mäellä.
Maybe there is some words that can be similar to slavic and germanic, but Finnish don't stand between the two. Finnish is Uralic which is non indo european, like Estionian, Sami, Hungarian etc...
@@chrispocream2262 They're talking about "worlds" (as cultural spheres), not "words".
finns lived near moscow , slavs came and drove them away but some remained.
@@Xtalllll No, I mean world. Maybe in languge somethings are added here and there, and some with slavic and germanic with culture. But Uralic is not between them, it is it's own thing. And somethings in Scandenvia have been originaly uralic.
This shows "Whiteness" in the US was a cultural concept rather that what's your literal skin colour. Also Jews, Irish and Italians were for long excluded from White status.
I read somewhere that the African-American actress Vanessa Williams is 11% Finnish according to a DNA test. Also there's a community of Finns and native Americans, called "Finndians".
Jews were originally considered White. There were Jewish congressman and senators from the pre-war south. In fact one of these, Judah P Levy It was actually the foreign minister and Secretary of the Treasury for the Confederacy. The real issue came with wide scale Jewish migration starting in the 1880s.
North Africa are also caucasian btw
All Mediterraneans and Balkans were never considered white in Europe, later we were perceived as white in USA
Well, Italians aren’t white and neither are Jews. Jews come from West Asian descent, and Italians (as well as Greeks) come from a mixture of West Asian and South Asian descent. White isn’t a cultural concept, it’s a defunct classification that was drummed up by a German hack who was a bigot. 🤷♀️
Throw in the Irish as well.
The woman illustrating the video isn't Finnish, she's Sami. Not the same thing.
Not the same, but Finno-Ugric nonetheless
@@barghastov Ever call people from USA "Canadians"?
@@csmrfx Nah, but the difference is that Finno-Ugric is more to a collective term for those genetics. Where as Canadians and Americans can be anything from Germanic, Latin, Finno-Ugric, Slavic, etc. If you catch my drift.
thank you for pointing that out! too many people forget that sami people are their own indigenous group, separate from finns
@@ladybugd0ts Of course. The vast majority of people know very little about the Finno-Ugric peoples, but we are a very interesing and diverse group. From the Finns (Finnish, Veps, Karelian, Mordvin, Ezrya etc) to the Sami, Hungarian, Selkup, etc etc etc
I heard that Finns and Indians got along well, hence the ''no Finns or Indians'' signs. There is a group of people called Findians who descent from mixing between Finnish Americans and American Indians (mostly from Ojibwe tribe).
I have heard that as well!
@@nytnthere is a interesting documentary going little more in-depth with the story of "Findians" czcams.com/video/eq43Yqi5-UE/video.html
Yep, they integrated better there than with the "whites" :)
Finnish people and Native Americans had the same perception on land, something that was not owned but used by everyone living there. Very fundamental value. Also sauna was a thing for both
It makes sense since Finns very much love nature, similar to Indians. I've heard a saying "kun suomalainen voi huonosti, hän menee metsään" - translated: "when a Finn is unwell, he goes to the nature". Also kind of reminds me of the movie Jäniksen vuosi (I have not read the book yet).
I am Finnish (living in Finland) and had never heard the term China-Swede before. How peculiar! The concept of being considered Mongols seems just really cool to me, but that's probably all due to Crash Course World History 😂 loved that series, always pointing out how the Mongols were the exception to any trend in history.
I’ll have to watch that!
Many still say 'Mongol' as an insult to Hungarians 😅, even though we look like everyone else around us and it was much the same 1000 years ago. The first picture in the video looks a lot like my grandma though, except for hair color😮. I've seen the picture before & I seem to remember she is Sami, which makes the dark hair less of a surprise.
I guess nowa days it would be more the sammi people of northern Finland that look mongol
Beein called as Mongol is ok (not very precise but doesn't offend)... but never, never call a Finn as "Swede". Pthyi!
aika ikävää että noin vanhentunutta tietoa vieläkin liikkeellä. suomalaisilla ei ole esivanhempia mongoliassa :D sen sijaan saamelaisilla ja siperian alkuperäiskansoilla löytyy yhteisiä esivanhempia sieltä jääkauden ajalta, eli ihan eurooppalaisia ollaan.
As a Finn, I have never heard China-Swede, though I knew about Swedish racial studies that categorized us as Mongols. According to my mum, some of our relatives moved to US, but that is far as I know. Now I need to get back to the Throat Singing practice......
You are. We Mongols and Siberians are not Chinese, period. Chines are south Eastern Asian people. And your Indigenous Finns are from Siberia. So, we distant cousins. Some may don’t like this idea, but it is the fact.
@@enkhzayazundui1063 In our Chinese/Northeast Asian minds you Siberians, Mongols and Turks and everything in between are more related to us than the Southeast Asians racially, but if you guys feel distant to us then so be it, hope you guys rot in your cold wastelands, meanwhile we will just make some more loving to the Southeast Asians and enjoy their coconuts in white sand tropical beaches while you waste your lives in those flea infested grasslands and crappy food.
@@enkhzayazundui1063 Nope, finns are NOT from Siberia - some finns also some saami just share some 4% same ancestry then few siberian tribes, their mutual ancestors were from Ural area. 94% of Finns share same ancestry then swedes and Norwegians - also they are all mixed together thousands of years.
It's not a theory or suggestion that Finnish is not an Indo-European language. it is a scientific FACT.
But still finns have the most indoeuropean dna in Europe. We just happen to speak non indoeuropean language just to troll other indoeuropeans.
Thank you for the video. My paternal great grandparents migrated from Finland to Minnesota in the 1860’s and later to Washington state. Western Washington has similar geography as Finland and many Scandinavian immigrants were involved in fishing and the timber industry. So we’re Finnish immigrants. My maternal Finnish family members were blue-eyed blondes. Interestingly enough my blonde mother married my father, an African American transplant from Texas and I am the result of that union. Although the majority of my DNA is Finnish, I don’t look Finnish or Black and have been assumed to be a member of any of the olive/brown skinned peoples of the world! I had no idea Finnish immigrants were discriminated against. Thanks again for an informative video.
The olive 🫒 tribe is the new tribe. Lol
Alicia Keys, The Rock, Halle Berry, Chelsea Smith, Jennifer Beals, Lisa Bonet, Tiger Woods.
christian europens hate everybody, especially if you're from one of the 5 cradles of civilization : P
Tiger Woods is NOT Olived skinned he is black
@@colinchampollion4420 not if you look at the color black in the box of crayons.
Scandinavia - only Sweden, Norway, Denmark
Nordic countries - Scandinavia + Finland, Iceland and the autonomois regions of Åland, Greenland, Faroe islands
It's incredible how societal racial definitions that have persisted for nearly a century were often defined by a small handful, sometimes just 1 person. Thanks for all of your work & dedication towards this channel!
What an incredible insight...the power of a small handful of people to do damage...that tells me it can take just a few of us to make the repair. I hope so anyway.
@@nytn you have got to believe that, that changes for the better can come through the efforts of individuals working for that! Think of all the good things achieved by people like that, in science and philosophy, in art and culture, in every area of human endeavour ….. well maybe not every area, but those directed towards making things better….
What is more incredible is that it goes on now, perhaps stronger than ever, and ironically from the side which purports to be against racism.
thats why it baffles me why a lot of people still adhere to the pseudo scientific idea of race
of course they've persisted. the country is ruled by a small handful of 80 year olds.
To get an idea of just how absurd race issues have been, you only need to look at my Norwegian ancestors (and let's face it, you can't get much paler). It's a common trait in the west and north of the country to have relatively narrow eyes, much as you're referring to with Finns (Look at a photo of Knute Rockne, who was from Voss, to get an idea.). In the U.S. this was frequently seen as a sign of a mental defect or, even worse, RACE MIXING. Consequently, everything about their culture was inferior. For example they still made their bread from rye, so the bread the children took to school was darker than their classmates' wheat bread, and their classmates would say this was because their mothers rolled the dough on the kitchen floor and baked the dirt in. Culture is something that lives within people, but race has typically been a label imposed from without.
You have made me laugh to tears. cheers.
Irish immigrants (and they're paler than Norwegians) were discriminated against for a long time in the US.
This is laughable sir. To question the whiteness of the Scandinavians, the whitest shade of white possible.
Tbh it is common enough to see white europeans all over europe having narrow eyes. I believe virtually all europeans have some asian ancestry. I have a cousin, great grandmother and uncle that look more asian then white facially but we are all irish born and raised. No known foreign blood. Ive noticed this in other europeans too. There is no such thing as a pure race, just people who are predominantly one race and partially another.
@@margelatutrandafirulgalben3156id argue the english, welsh, scottish and Irish are the palest. Lots of scandinavians can have very nice tans if out in the sun. While those in britain and ireland are often so pale they just burn in the sun, though we do have natives of the isles that also have olive skin naturally.
One thing has always stuck to me were the Swedish Ethnisity studies that begun gaining speed in 1800's , where it was deemed that us Finns were somewhat lesser people that graviated mroe easily towards alchololism, violence and indecensy, to the point that one university even came to dig up skulls from a medieval gravesite to study whether they can find evidence of this. Under Swedish rule Finland was quite often also used as cannon fodder in Sweden's wars, up until Russian anexed us for a hundred odd years. After gaining independence, Finland mostly gravitated towards Germany that Finland almost became a kingdom with a German prince as a king. After the wars concluded and Finland settled into a neutral positions alongside with Sweden, relationships with our former overlords did heal up pretty well, as both countries share alot of family roots within each other, though it still does feel like Swedes see themself as bit better than us Finns (which is true in certain fields)
I had to reply to this twice since youtube is incompetent, comment in progress was discarded after outro ad finished despite video not being in a playlist, hell awaits for youtube employee responsible for that design.🍻
Dont feel like the swedes are looking at you less, most of us look at our beloved neighbours as equals. If anything i look up to finland as a swede, more stable, less reckless, more responsible and spirit in the right place, less population replacement compared to sweden. One thing though would be the law disallowing for protesting against religion. I bet it was founded to solidify christianity into finland without protests. And now the law has been aiding christianitys siblings for same or for worse. Christianity and other abrahamic religions and influences shouldnt even have entered europe to begin with ideally. Oh and btw im actually 6% finnish🍻
It helped that Sweden is also a relatively small country and only twice as populous as Finland today, which wasn't the case hundreds of years ago when Finland's population was much smaller relative to Sweden proper.
These days, there is no feeling of inferiority towards Swedish people and Swedish people generally don't feel superior to Finns at least in my generation. If there are some residual feelings of inferiority/superiority left, usually among older folks, I tend to think of them as an odd leftover from past generations.
@@dasitmane7590 "I bet it was founded to solidify christianity into finland without protests. And now the law has been aiding christianitys siblings for same or for worse. Christianity and other abrahamic religions and influences shouldnt even have entered europe to begin with ideally." Islam and Judaism are no 'siblings' of Christianity. If there is “a brotherhood” of religions it’s between pagans, Moslems and Jews who all share the dislike/hatred of the followers of Christ.
I remember reading am article of KKK attacking Finns in Oregon, because they didn't have any other groups to pester. Unfortunately I am unable to find the article again.
Oh good lord! If that happened, it is peak insanity.
Those wackos were always looking for some group to harass. The KKK in the Northeast used to target German Catholics and all Italians. What a bunch of moral reprobates.
That hate group, hates everyone.
"because they didn't have any other groups to pester." LOL.
This basically sums up what would actually happen if race supremacists had their wish and everyone else disappeared. There will also he someone who is supposedly lesser
There was recently an article in Helsingin Sanomat, the largest Finnish newspaper, about this kind of "racialized" history of the Finns in Europe.
Of course, the article is in Finnish, with the headline "Mitäs me barbaarit" [Roughly: How about us barbarians]. Unfortunately, it is behind a paywall, and ChatGPT apparently can't translate it in full (otherwise would have pasted the translation here). The main point just being that there were Swedish, German, and French anthropologists who were also obsessed with classifying the Finns as part of the "inferior Mongol or yellow race" (partly, for example, by the method of collecting and measuring skulls).
And some of the sami/finnish skulls and bones that were dug up and practically stolen from the graveyards (for these racial profiling examinations) are still being kept by swedish museums. Only recently they have been negotiations of returning the ancestors´ remains and reburying them.
Mitennii chatgpt ei voi kääntää? Mikset vaan laita sitä moneen osaan?
czcams.com/video/6jaeSHfNTuQ/video.html - the latest reserch in link show finns are european and from the same etnicity as germanic people in rest of scandinavia
LOL! Now Finland is one of the most racist country in Europe with elected racist political party. History repeates itself, only the role has changed.
Fascinating stuff. Great job. Learning so much about our country’s history on this channel.❤
As a Finn, i take pride in being called a Mongol, no matter how wrong it is. Being a descendant of the largest land empire known to man, and fierce warriors, sounds nice to me. :D But, when we come to the origin of Finns, it's truly murky despite dna research. Finland seems to be a refuge for displaced people since the last ice age.
LOL, this was cool to read, thanks for being here
Same. Its the Swede-slur, that I wouldn't want hurled at me. But I guess it's just because familiarity breeds contempt.
Fins are Siberian not Mongol...
but it is not true at all though, emme ole mongolien jälkeläisiä. Se on todella vanha väärinkäsitys. Edes saamelaiset eivät ole mongoleille sukua, vaan siperian heimoilla ja heillä on yhteisiä esivanhempia tuhansia vuosia sitten. On aika ikävää että väärää tietoa edelleen täällä. Tässä videossa on sotkettu saamelaiset ja suomalaiset aika perin juurin.
@@Sgsgssgsgsgs You not Mongol..
you Siberian
"China Swede"? Never heard this term before. I remember wondering why so many people in America did not embrace their immigrant heritage. Watching your videos has opened my eyes to many reasons for immigrant families to attempt to "wash away" or disown that heritage with each generation. 😕Thanks, Danielle. ❤
I'm sure they had spent hours and hours and hours of research to find *ONE* reference to "China Sweden".
This is video is a racial psy-op.
Like when I grew up seems like half the lighter skinned blacks claimed a Indian "princess" great grandmother, I kid you not. Probably, more likely some Irish Catholic overseer fleeing the famine (actually pretty common job around ports of New Orleans, Charleston) arranging tryst with slave women in return for a "new" (used) dress or pair of shoes.
I’m the grandson of an immigrant and neither me, nor my mother can speak French.
It’s amazing the lengths sometimes people go to to suppress their language and culture to assimilate. Sad, really.
ok china swede
China Swede is apparently a slur against finns nowadays. I (A finn) find it funny, but I would find it offensive if it mentioned our neighbor to the east.
@@hi-tl6fi Karelia?
The prejudice of Finns did not just occur in America. There are communities of Finns in Canada, particularly northern Ontario, that also experienced racism. This was probably due to the fact that Finns tended to keep to their own community, did not speak English at that time, and had their own culture and traditions. For example, Finnish men who worked as lumberjacks were the only ones to build themselves a sauna in the bush, so were probably the only clean workers. This meant that they were different than the others. Being different has always been an excuse for bullying.
Very interesting video. Thank you. My great grandparents came from the area around Oulu and Puolanka. They went to America around the early 1880s. On my grandmother's side they had a darker skin and that came from being descendants of Saami people. My father explained to me when asked about a connection to the Saami, "that was why they were so dark", referring to my great grandmother, grandmother and her sisters. And they hid the fact because of prejudices that still existed into the early 20th century. They settled in Hancock, Michigan, later spreading out to Jacobsville and Chassel areas. There were many problems with the mining district in the Copper Country which led to strikes. There were even murders of Finnish strikers between 1900 and the 1920s. One of the worst was the Italian Hall disaster in Calumet during the strike of 1913. On Christmas eve 1913, the people organized a Christmas party for the children who were suffering from want because their families were in poverty from the strike. Many people came because presents and candy were organized for the children. Their parents couldn't afford Christmas presents for them. During the party, a man wearing an anti union badge on the upper floor where the party was being held, yelled "Fire!", resulting in a panic on the narrow stairs to the street which caused a jam of people. 73 people, mostly children, were smothered to death in the pile of people caused by the panic. I can still recall the sadness of that event continuing into the 1970s when those older people talked about it. My great uncle was a pall bearer who carried the little white coffins for the trip to the cemetery. No one was ever charged. But that is how Finns were treated for striking for better living conditions for their families from the mine owners who paid such slave wages. Many Finns just worked the mines so they could save money to buy a small farm. So many immigrants died or suffered horrible injuries in those mines. My great grandfather was killed mining sandstone in Jacobsville in an accident. After over 100 years, the scars are still there and the families of the mine owners still live wealthy lives. Thank you for that video.
There was significant oppression of the Sami in Sweden during that time, do you know if they experienced something similar in Finland? That could add an extra incentive to emigrate to escape persecution.
@@98Zai l did hear that they experienced that in the US, they left Finland because they were very poor and it was difficult to get work and enough to eat. My great grandfather used to do physical work for crusts of bread.
@@fredmarsy5876 I heard an old story about a church pastor who hadn't seen a family in his congregation for a month during the winter, he was worried about them so he went on a trek to their house. When he arrived they were all malnourished and bedridden, preparing to die. They had even cooked and eaten the leather off their boots. There was a sense of pride (to a fault) in those people, they would rather disappear silently than ask for help. The pastor himself took them in and helped them. It was tough times, if you had the opportunity and the money to leave the chance of a better life was very tempting.
Oulu and Puolanka? I currently live 10km from Oulu and I have family roots and a summer cottage in Puolanka.
@@hi-tl6fi Some came from Kannus and left Finland from Oulu, and some came from Puolanka.
There is a great song called "Oulu, Wisconsin" by popular Finnish musician J. Karjalainen, in which he recounts the familiar yet strange feeling of visiting a Finnish-American town.
Brings perhaps little, but still some insight on how American Finnish culture is viewed in Finland. I do recommend checking it out!
What a great little song. Makes me want to visit the place one day.
Except, Finns don't have any Mongolic ancestry. And that also goes to show how they get confused with the Sami, who look kind of Asian, but aren't.
I am a Finn and I've been very fascinated with this topic even though nobody in our family line (of either side) has immigarated to the US as far as I know. One of the interesting aspects which you quickly referenced there was the relationship between Native Americans and Finns. What I've read and seen a documenatery of it is that apparently in some areas where Finns got rough treatment form the locals, Finnish immigrants and Native Americans actually banded together and formed pretty strong alliances helping each other out. What I've understood there were some small settlements also that were formed by mixed Finn-Native American couples which are somewhat still existing today, although they are considered poor and dwindling communities.
Finns has lived close to nature Bec of a country full of forest and fju people in a corner high up of europe. So maby they get along with native people easier - as very down to earth people who dont worry to much
I'm an American with ~50% Finnish ancestry and the term "china-swede" is hilarious to me. No one would ever look at me and think I'm anything other than white
if you are mixed, then maybe you don't 'look' Finnish, nothing new there, that is the magic of mixing ... do you remember biology classes?
I saw a few videos from finland, sweden, Russia and definitely many of them have slanted eyes and surely that is a reason they were called 'china-swede' ...
@CollinChampagne
Well, they mixed tree different ethnic groups here.
The Sami people (living in northern parts of Finland, Sweden and Norway) are not finns and don't want to be called finns. The Sámi have narrower eyes and slightly darker skin color. They also have their own language.
The Swedes have lived along the coasts of Finland since ancient times. They are of Germanic ethnic groups. Same as the Swedes in Sweden.
And then we have the Finnish speaking people ("finns"), originating from the Ural area.
All tree are quite different ethnic groups. Although living in the same country.
@@susannebrunberg4174
Somewhat incorrect.
The closest genetic relatives to the Finns are the Swedes, the Estonians and the Karelians. The Swedish-speaking Finns are not Swedes - despite of many of them believing so.
The genetic "Swedishness" among the Swedish-speaking Finns vary from 0 to 100%. One should also remember, that a considerable portion of the Swedish genes in Sweden are "Finnish".
Some Swedish colonialists arrived to Finland mainly during the 1200's and 1300's. Today they have been heavily mixed with the Finns.
The Finnish-speaking Finns didn't arrive from the Urals or anywhere else - few of our ancestors did, with the Proto-Finnic language. We Finns are a mixture of different peoples from different directions.
What’s kinda weird to me (I had never heard this term) is I have Estonian & Finnish ancestry and no Asian according to ancestry.. but when I’ve traveled to Central America & the Caribbean I have more than once had someone ask me where I’m from, and when I say the US.. they’re like “no I mean China? Japan? Korea?”
@@timoterava7108 Those Sami people I happen to know, literally have slightly darker skin color. Most distinct though is the narrow eyes. According to them their ancestors came a long time ago from what nowadays is India. It can also be traced in their DNA. The Sami people lived over the hole country until immigrant finns began to push them further and further north. In many villagenames in southern Finland, the memory of the "Lapps", as they were called back then, still lives on.
The finns (Finnish speaking people in Finland) surely are mixed nowadays, but I was talking about were they originated from. It has always been thought they came from Ural area. The countless interviews, about their language and oral history, made by the Swede Mikael Agricola, are a pretty solid foundation. Agricola also made the written language for the Finns. The language is totally different, a so called Finnish-ugrian language. Never heared about any Swedes moving to Finland during the 1200's and 1300's, it can party be true... Is probably the "new history" the finns tried to introduced in 1997 when they weren't satisfied with the oral history their ancestors had told. The finns wanted a "better history" for themselves. They have a hard time not knowing their exact heritage due to lack of a written language, but had to rely on oral tradition. It's understandable. This new history has been heavily marketed, but is it really justified? The finns should be pride of their history, even if their roots mostly are i nowadays Russia.
And finally, the Swedes in Finland. They are of Germanic ethnic groups, as are the Swedes in Sweden. They have been living in Finland since ancient times. I know the Swedes in Finland are very proud of their heritage, and know very well wherefrom their ancestors are.
I hope this video inspires people with Finnish heritage to relearn their own language. Finnish is such beautiful and expressive language.
Unfortunately it is also one of the hardest languages to learn especially if you are a native english speaker but it is not impossible language to learn. It takes lots of patience though.
@@NordicWiseguy All families with agglutinative language families learn each other's languages very easily and comfortably. Just as a Turk learns Mongolian very easily, a Japanese learns Turkish and Hungarian very easily. It is very difficult for someone from the Indo-European language family to learn these languages. On the contrary, it is difficult for people who speak agglutinative languages to learn English, but interestingly, when they learn, they speak without an accent, not with a heavy accent like Indian English, which stings the ear...
Since you asked, I would love to hear more about Finnish settlers' relations with American Indians.
I read an article about "Findians" once and it was really interesting.
In the article it said that many things that made settler with other European descent recent Fins, had the opposite effect with the natives.
Similar culture (like sauna), similar traditions, similar views towards land ownership etc.
Anyways. Thank you for the video! I really enjoyed it.
Finns have the highest level of Indo European DNA, they are the closest genetically to proto Indo Europeans. Both Native Americans and Proto Indo-Europeans are descendants of ancient Northern Eurasians. Maybe that's why there are similarities
Great suggestion! I will definitely do a video on that. Thank you:)
@@nytnI would suggest, you stop confusing people with your information, there is a difference between simply a "Finn" and a Sami. The Sami people are like the Native Americans/First Nations of North America, the Sami are a more asian looking people, and have their own culture and language. Their lands span between Finland, Sweden, Norway, and Russia in the Arctic circle, and they were, and still are reindeer herders. It doesn't do any justice to refer to them as simply "Finn's", as that would be like speaking about Native Americans and simply referring to them as "Americans" or "Canadians".
@@BFVsnypEzsami people are finno ugrics too
@@BFVsnypEzsaami are very closely related to us. Our ancestors from the protofinnic view are the same. Saami were dealt a bad hand yes but they are undeniably finnic
Hitler didn't ever consider Finns to be Mongols. In the 1936 Berlin Olympics, Hitler only congratulated German and Finnish gold medalists
Finland was a German ally during wwii
So that makes sense
But Finland was only allied with Germany to fight off Russian invasion
@@deficharliegosseTK The Continuation War started in 1941. (Finland & Germany weren't allies in the Winter War) The Olympics were held in 1936
He and the others in his gang were surprisingly sportsmanlike in the olympics. But the hard truth is that finns were mongols and "untermensch" for the nazis. They divided the areas between nazi-Germany and their ally bolshevik soviet union and nazis gave Finland to Stalin. Germany blocked arms and volunteer transports to Finland during the winter war. They said that they had to "emphasize the soviet view" and were sure Finland would lose. Nazis were astounded that Finland survived and were sure that german army would easily crush the red army. Göring was later bitter when nazis were losing the war and said that "winter war the greatest hoax in history".
@@carbonara2144 Himmler had many Ahnenerbe expeditions sent to Finland to try and prove that Finns and Germans were related peoples. According to the nazis, Finns, Estonians and Hungarians were Uralic Aryans. The Nazi definition of Aryan was "An Aryan is one who is tribally related (stammverwandt) to German blood. An Aryan is the descendant of a Volk domiciled in Europe in a closed tribal settlement (Volkstumssiedlung) since recorded history"
@@superjonne7916 Was that before or after the winter war? Because before that war finns were untermensch to the nazis but after that their pseudoscience suddenly changed. They got their attitude towards finns from the swedish scholars, who were convinced that finns are mongols.
Very informative video, well done. I'm born and raised Finn and my grandfather's sister has moved to America in the 1945-1950 century. He himself moved to work in Australia when he was around his twenties. But eventually he came back to Finland, found my grandmother and got married. He has told me that some Finns experienced some kind of prejudice/racial discrimination while living abroad, but I didn't realize scale of it until now.
now the movie with Brad Pitt, Anthony Hopkins and some beautiful native american actresses about Montana and the prairie makes sense, thanks.
A Finn living in Finland here. I know the history of the term. It feels so bizarre but not really surprising. People are supremely capable of not believing their own eyes and much else if their economic interests depend on it.
What I've also heard is how Finnish immigrants in the Great Lakes area used to get along with Native Americans much better than most other groups.
What an interesting topic. As a former immigrant to the states (I went back home after 20 years), and as a descendant of Saami, Finnish, Swedish, and Norwegian ancestry, this really hit home for me. What particularly stuck with me was your point about politics and racial identity. You gave me something to ponder, and I thank you for that.
I’m half Finnish (mother’s side) and half Italian (father’s side).
The Finnish side came over in the late 1800s and worked in the copper mines of Northern Michigan until my mom’s parents moved to Chicago in the 1960s and then further east.
One of my great-great uncles went back to Finland to fight in the Winter-war and then came back to the US and fought in the Pacific where he was eventually captured and was in a Japanese prisoner camp until the end of the war.
That is incredible bravery, I am in awe of that
Suuret kunnioitukset sun iso-iso-isälle! ♥️🇫🇮🇺🇸
Isn't it kinda weird that your great-great uncle was in both sides during ww2
I'd guess that the stereotype that Finns were socialistic and thus trouble-brewers for the company-owners was not something made out of thin air. Finns were kind of egalitarian by US standards. In 1907 Finland held its first parliamentary elections (the first in the world with female MPs elected ) and the social democrats won 37% of the vote. It sure is a sign of the cultural spirit of the era back in Finland.
In an anecdotal piece of evidence which I recommend for anyone interested in their Finnish roots or depictions of Finland in general, Mrs Ethel Tweedie's book Through Finland in Carts (1898), the writer notes several times that the people seemed to be of democratic or equality-minded nature.
Nice catch with Ethel Tweetie! She also described Finns as some kind of technological enthusiasts. Pretty well foreseen by her (then later came Nokia, Linux, SMS, IRC, Genelec, Polar Electro etc.)
The woman in the picture in the beginning is definitely not Finnish, but Saami. Is there a reason for using this photo in this video?
Why would you have a picture of a Sami woman in a video about Finns? Your credibility is gone before even starting the video.
The video was pretty good though, thanks.
Yes a Sami woman from Ellis island!
@@nytn why use the photo? She was not Finnish. Otherwise your video is very good, The story of Olli Kinkkonen is a good example of how immigants were treated.
I am a Finn living in Finland and the term China Swede brought back a weird memory. When i was in first grade (around 2006) we had a "game" where you would say 'my father is a swede' and pull your eyes so that they were bigger and then say 'and my mother is Chinese' and pull your eyes to be smaller and then say ' but I am a Finn' and left your eyes alone. I don't know where the game came from, maybe it was just a kid who heard their parents being racist and made a game or maybe they heard about Finns being described as China Swedes. But it is weird
wow that is crazy similar
Well researched and presented. There is a fairly large population of Finnish folk in Astoria, Oregon. I've heard about half of Astoria's population is of Finnish descent. I'm intrigued not only by their culture but the Finnish language.
Tons of evidence of Nordic influence, road names, shops, etc
My Ex Husband's Grandmother Evelyn had family from Astoria who were Finnish Immigrants. A lot of the people at the time could not find work. Many turned to drinking and other vices .
Amazingly enough, his grandmother was shipped off to a small town in Washington State where my Hungarian immigrant Father also lived. Decades before meeting my Ex Husband, this little Finn culture enclave was leading to ripples of both love and pain. That is the Finnish American experience in a nutshell.
I'm Finnish and I was born there, but in my late teens I lived in the US for a few years. I visited Astoria and got to meet the locals there, they were very friendly and I got to speak in Finnish with some of the older residents :)
I recently read an excellent historical fiction novel 'Deep River" by Karl Marlantes, published in 2019, and it was about 3 Finnish siblings (a sister and two brothers) who emigrate to the Pacific Northwest (Washington and Oregon) region (some of which takes place in the Astoria area, earlier parts of the story are set in Finland) where the story is set between the early 1900's-1960's and centers the intertwined lives of the three siblings, their friends and families, logging, farming, fishing and the labor and workers movements and union organizing of that era and has a lot about Finnish customs and culture and the interactions and interpersonal relations between the Finns and other Scandinavian, European immigrants and Native Americans. The novel has many fascinating and memorable characters and is an outstanding novel, highly recommended reading.
Full of errrors sadly.
So glad I found your channel. Great research, thanks for sharing your knowledge. ❤
It is really ironic that Finns have the most indoeuropean dna out of all European nations, but we still speak a non indoeuropean language and because of this we are not labeled as indoeuropeans.
I guess we just love to troll our European brothers and sisters.
Haplogroup N1 is not indoeuropean, as well as haplogroup I1
@@dignusfiliusabdulius1478 i wasn't talking about haplogroups. Finns have the most yamnaya ancestry out of all European nations. Yamnayas were the ancestors of modern day Europeans.
About 60% of finnish dna comes directly from yamnayas. Other Europeans have roughly 40-50% yamnaya ancestry.
I love your research. As a African American woman, we know that we were never really meant to become citizens of this country. Using the one drop rule and 3/5 of a person nonsense to marginalize us, I was certainly never taught this portion of history about there being only two groups of people that could be considered for US citizenship. In fact, until now that's all I ever heard. This is very interesting to know that many of this groups of immigrants weren't fighting to be white simply to be white, but to gain citizenship. Yet, not forgetting also what some groups did to us in order to gain whiteness. Thank you!
Im a bit of an idealist, but deep down I really do feel like there is still a possibility for great healing along racial lines here in the US. Most of us dont know much about our own family story, much less our neighbors'. Im so glad to have you here with me while I am learning:)
It's a lot easier to be an immigrant today, even a non-white one. back then there was no "Press 1 for Italian" or any other language. You either learned English or were left behind. Nowadays people would be up in arms if some of the things that happened back then happened today.
You might be African-US. American is not a nationality. AMERICAN is a historical and continental identity like European, Asian and African that refers to all people of all countries of AMERICA, an entire continent since 1507, pay attention to the year, a very important detail, composed of 35 countries, officially discovered and named in the South by the Iberians, not by the English or British. When you people showed up in AMERICA everything was already discovered and named. You people didn't spend a penny on the enterprise of the discovering of America so you have no historical rights to claim the history and the name of AMERICA.
@@siriemapantanal6894Come again?
@@siriemapantanal6894Holy fucking racist
My Finnish immigrant great grandfather's nickname was Chinaman because of his eyes and cheekbones.
wow, that is exactly what I had come across.
From what I gather, it was not meant as an insult particularly and my great grandfather did not take it that way. This was in a small town in Massachusetts called Dracut. A small community of Finns lived there in the first half of the 20th century, but all eventually moved away.
@@nytn photo that you use is saami woman, not a finn. Finns are white. Many people came to US from northern finland having some saami roots somewhere from 1600-1700's byt finnish people are white. You have also mixed some very old info there..Finns or Saami has nothing to do with mongolia nor mongols. Instead saami people share 4% dna with some siberian indigenious people - that also goes back 4000 years..The Sámi are much closer to other Europeans than to East Asians, but they have significant Central-Eastern Siberian ancestry that is mostly East Eurasian in origin, but not directly derived from present East Asians.
@@Sgsgssgsgsgs We Saami are averagely 20-35% siberian in modern time. In old times we were 30-60% siberian, but now we are pretty much all mixed in to our white neighbours so obviously the asian blood has dropped to 20-35%. Im mix of sami and finn ancestry myself.
Its pretty obvious if you look at oldest sami photos you can see even full asian looking sami. Some rarer families children still look very much east asian because some sami families did not get in to that "lets make us sami disappear by marrying finn or norwegian so our grand children dont need to suffer from racism" bs like many elder sami told their kids to do.
Also theres dark history of forced sterilisation and secretly done sterilisation to indigenous woman when they went to do abortion or some surgery.
It was done to inuit woman in greenland and im pretty sure to sami too to get rid of our more asian genetic lineages so that we dont "ruin the white peoples good blood".
I dont know where you get the only 4% smh
Probably of sami finnish mix ancestry. Its usually the case with finns that have north asian features.
Finland was populated by sami even in southern finland before finnish and karelian settlers started to expand farming lands from estonia to finland andmojority of the southern sami got absorded in to the finnish new comers.
Another fantastic video!
Thanks for doing this research and sharing the information. It was very interesting!
Finns left a huge impact on the culture here in Wisconsin(particularly in the north). Not Finnish myself but, always felt a kinship with them.
Care to expand more?
@@WillOfFiree A very large amount of Finns settled around the area of Lake Superior. Northern MN, Northern WI and the upper peninsula of MI and they had a big influence in the region.
11:20 = Actually, the Swedes did that before Germany. The "racial hygienics" of the University of Uppsala, which the Natzhees adopted, also precede them.
Late in to the party, but r u talkin about Freudenthal? I think Hitler liked his thougths but didnt see finns as he did. There is even a sub-camp in Auschwitz called after this man.
Thanks for posting. Learned something new.
Another fascinating video.
This was really interesting! I'm a Finnish person, living in Finland, and I know that some relatives of my grandma from my dad's side immigrated to the US and Canada in the early 1900's. I met the matriarch that still lived there back when I was in elementary school and she came to visit Finland with her daughter. Sadly I was only 7 years old and I hadn't started learning English in school yet, so I couldn't communicate with them. Once I started learning English, my grandma would ask me to translate letters from the American relatives to her, since my grandma didn't understand English.
Grandma had some American toys that the relatives had sent when my dad, uncle and aunt were little, and I used to play with them all the time.
I've heard before that Finnish immigrants to the Americas got along with the Native Americans better than the white Americans, because we have such a strong connection to nature. No idea how valid that claim is though.
Would be cool to visit some American town that has a strong Finnish vibe some day, if I ever visit the US.
Honest people . Shake Hand or just watch🧿. Man’s word is 💎
It’s very misleading that you use a portrait of a Norwegian sami woman (her identity is actually not known, but most people think she is the Norwegian sami woman Ellen Spein) in a video about Finnish people. There’s already too many people in the US that don’t know the difference between the Sami and Finnish people, and you’re feeding that confusion. They are two separate people with separate cultures, languages and traditions. I often come across American peoples who think they are indigenous to Scandinavia because they have Finnish ancestry. Finland suppressed and oppressed their Sami people (as did Norway, Sweden and Russia) and there is actually a truth and reconciliation commission in Finland right now investigating the crimes the Finnish state committed against the Sami people in Finland. So please don’t take them as one people!
I would say indigenous to the south because makes sense that people were following the ice
I know that there have been germanic tribes in Sweden that went extinct before the one we derive from today but I think it’s a bit same same because native Americans and Greenlandics are still considered indigenous even tho they weren’t first
but that’s nature
Read the definition of Indigenous Peoples by UN. It’s not about who came first, there’s other criteria too, like distinct culture and language that’s different from the majority population.
@@evahanneli1321 that’s dumb lol. By that definition Greenlanders shouldn’t be considered indigenous because Greenlandic is a majority language in Greenland. Or if they’re indigenous simply because Greenland happens to be part of Denmark, would they suddenly stop being indigenous if they ever split from Denmark?
omg i have been thinking about making something exactly like this for the past years, thank u
The white privilege we're accused of having only further serves to stamp out distinct and seperate cultures and history.
I was taught by my Italian father to never mark white on documents. The history of people and americas over simplified organizing of people by 4 colors, forgetting each person of any color has any number of cultural backgrounds. Many have struggled to assimilate. Its a shared american experience thats not spoken of enough.
I'm a Finn living in Finland and I'm from the Northern Savonia region you mentioned in the video. In our family only one person migrated, and it's a family legend he died when a tree branch fell on his head when he was having a stroll in the park with his lady friend. Oh well. We do sometimes talk about our fellow tribesmen and -women who made the journey and helped to conquer the Mid- and North-West with their forestry (and kaski aka controlled forest burning) skills. I've never heard the slur though! I had heard Finns and some Native American tribes got along well which may have reflected badly on the Finns in the society at the time.
Very political use of "white" as the Finns are the blondest nation. I am not aware of blond non-whites if albinism doesn't count.
Yes, we Finns are very unique and maybe that's why the happiest people in the world.
I'm a finn and when I was a kid, I heard my great-grandmother did the "my ancestry" and found out our ancestors were from the American Indian tribes so this was actually the most interesting stuff I've heard in my life. Wonder why I never even heard of this in school. Great video! 🤯
Fascinating and insightful.. The lunacy of trying to define people by physical characteristics! ... I cannot help but have an admiration for the Finns, their independence of spirit and their unique language and culture.
Actually this lady was speaking of the Sami, who are basically Europe's version of native Americans. It doesn't really do much justice to just call them "Finn's" because they represent a pretty small portion of the population, are more asian looking, and their lands range between Finland, Sweden, Norway, and Russia, and they have their own language and culture separate from the other 90% of very white Finn's, just like Native Americans/First Nations of America and Canada.
Are you sure? The narrator of the video makes repeated reference to the Finns, so I assume she is talking about people of Finnish decent. I agree that the still photo at the start of the video appears to be a woman of Sami decent as her costume particularly would indicate this. Our narrator was discussing historical American racial and immigration policy, perhaps Finns and the Sami were seen as the same thing at this time by Americans? I am aware that the Sami are a separate unique people and culture .
@@kirkbrown8189 Im not sure how you would confuse them, the Sami are quite distinct from your average white finn, in fact I can tell the woman in the video is Sami. Sure there are some Finn's who have Sami in their heritage, and may have very white skin, but thinner eyes, but it's not super common.
@@kirkbrown8189 I'm just annoyed with the way the channel owner made the video, most North Americans already know little enough, if anything about Finland, the last thing I need is to hear some idiot ask me if I'm the last of the mongolians or something stupid like that when I mention that I am a finn. I've already had enough Americans ask me if Canadians can speak English, a person can only deal with a certain amount of misinformed/under informed idiots before they get a strong urge to strangle the next fool that comes along😂.
@@BFVsnypEz The Finns and the Sami peoples are the same (language, believes, nomadic lifestyle) if we go thousands and thousands years back... Swedes thought both of us were "lesser people" and as Finns were living more South, we got to this trap and our original culture was destroyed by "civilized" Swedes...
Thanks for an interesting and informative video!
Thank you for making this video! Greetings from Finland
My pleasure! I love learning about it
Thanks for this informative video and your fascinating research!
The discussion gets so easily derailed, because people keep confusing linguistic and biological relatedness - which are two different things.
The "Eastern European" tradition of romantic nationalism (in Germany and east of it) was very strongly focused on language, probably because for the learned Germans of those times couldn't base their idea of a German nation on anything else: in the late 18th and early 19th century there was no state nor one religion to unite all German speakers. During the 19th century, numerous European nations - Finns included - experienced a national awakening which was inspired by these thoughts and largely based on language. Modern genetics didn't exist yet, and measuring skulls, noses or skin colour is scientifically highly problematic. For this reason, also authorities and handbooks up to the second half of the 20th century classified Finns as "Asiatic" or "Mongol" - based on the fact that languages related to their language are spoken in Siberia.
Together with the romantic nationalism came an holistic, "organic" idea of nations as "organisms" where everything - language, folklore, world view, mentality, even physical features - belongs together, and so nations are seen like "species". (This idea is no more taken seriously in science but still going strong in entertainment, from the Lord of the Rings, where each "nation" has its own typical language, culture, mentality and appearance, to more recent science fiction - see itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/000214.html .)
In reality, Finns like many other peoples are genetically most closely related to their neighbours but also carry some genetic markers which point farther to the east. For a fairly recent attempt at a scientific survey of their linguistic and genetic prehistory, see www.jbe-platform.com/content/journals/10.1075/dia.20038.gru .
From Wikipedia: "The State Institute for Racial Biology (SIRB, Swedish: Statens institut för rasbiologi, SIFR) was a Swedish governmental research institute founded in 1922 with the stated purpose of studying eugenics and human genetics. It was the most prominent institution for the study of "racial science" in Sweden."
"The institute's first head was Herman Lundborg. He retired in 1935. He was succeeded by Gunnar Dahlberg. An early research priority was studying the commonness of the "Nordic" racial traits in the Swedish population and the alleged downsides of race-mixing between the majority population and Finns and the Sámi people."
You never disappoint! Ty!
I’m a 63 year old woman who’s paternal grandparents and maternal great grandparents all came from Finland in the late 1800’s. My father was the second youngest of 13 children and I was born when he was 58. My mom was 38. I grew up fully understanding Finnish but rarely spoke it.
I’ve never heard of the term China Swede. I grew up in the upper peninsula of Michigan in the “copper country “.
My dad was born in 1902. I grew up hearing about different ethnicities that settled in different towns in the area. I imagine they all felt more comfortable being near others they could relate to.
In general the Finns I grew up around were very proud of their heritage. The word SISU definitely sums it up. Look at Finland today, they’re the happiest country in the world many years running. They even trust their government. I’m so very proud of my Finnish heritage and the honest ,loving, hardworking family that raised me.❤️
Picture presented is more Saami nation than Finn. Look at contemporary Finns - white skin, mostly blondish hair, blue or gray eyes - who could made up a though about Mongols? Those people must just been ignorant idiots.
German, Swedish and Finland Swedish academics. Some anthropologists in other countries in early modern times were taught that Finns look and live like inuits. Then those anthropologists came to Finland and wondered where all the real Finns were.
My Sista. This is how we need to talk about race. Your Anthropological approach to this is a stroke of brilliance. As a Black American, I’ve always wondered how we could deal with this topic without folks getting in there feelings. White folks worrying about guilt and Black folks about having our voice being silenced. All the while everyone missing the full flavor of the AMERICAN experience.
Yo’ Shit is DEEPA-THANNA-DOORNAIL. Keep dropping that knowledge.
American experience? What you mean by American? AMERICA and AMERICAN refer to an entire continent since 1507, pay attention to the year, a very important detail, composed of 35 countries, officially discovered and named in the South by the Iberians, not by the British. Did you believe everything your masters tell you about America? Here is the true America that will never die. Make note of that so next time you know what you are talking about. "The name America (applied to present-day Brazil) appeared for what is believed the first time on Martin Waldseemüller's 1507 world map, known as the Baptismal Certificate of the New World, and also America's Birth Certificate." .... Here we have history, man.
It's ironical that now a days we Finnish people should feel bad to been "white". 😇
Lots of new information, great video! Greetings from Finland.
I love seeing Finns on here, thank you for watching!
Hello from Finland. This whole video is news to me and very interesting. Thank you.
American notions of "white" have been so bizarre throughout history that it is sometimes difficult to even discern any intelligible element in these perceptions. Everything is so paralogical, irrational and weird .
The front page photo is of a 100 percent Saami. Her name is Kirsten Nilsdatter Bals and emigrated to USA in 1907 from Kautokeino in Norway.
that's right!
The Norwegians have taken the name Kautokeino from the Finns, while the Finns have taken the name from the Sámi. The original Sámi name of the village is Guovdageaidnu.
Thank you from a very interesting and thought-provoking video. My paternal grandparents both came from Finland to western Washington. My father said he didn't learn English until he entered grade school. Your video and many of the comments have been very informative. I hope you will continue this subject further.
Thank you for making this video!
My pleasure! I loved learning about it
Super interesting! I am Finnish and I remember this being discussed briefly during history class in high school. Some of my relatives (my great-grandparents' siblings) emigrated to the U.S. in early 1900s but I have no idea if their descendants now even know that they are of Finnish heritage.
When Ester Toivonen, Miss Europa 1934, won her titel, Finnish newspapers had headlines like: "We Are NOT Mongols, After all!"
Hey, great video! I must ask - in the background of the video there are some things that look like analog synthesizers (Moog comes to mind), do you happen to be synthplayer? Greetings from Finland!
My husband collects them! Lots of Moog and a wasp back there too...
Hi @nytn! Do you have any information on the woman in the first photo / thumbnail? Or a source for the photo?
Lol la Finlande est le pays qui compte le plus grand pourcentage de blond au yeux bleu au monde 90% de la population du pays . Ils sont plus blanc que les anglo-saxons
While I don't have any known Finnish Ancestry, my paternal ancestry is East Prussian, and my YDNA Haplogroup is N, which is the same as most Finns. Yes, it is of East Asian origin from many thousands of years ago.
In Baltia N -hablogroup is very common. And in north Russia too. Old Finnic tribes...
Wow! Your contents are excellent.
This was really intresting!
Interesting video, but unfortunately the pictures seen here 8:12 and here 9:01 are not of Finns. The first picture is of a Saami woman and the second picture is likely of a Ukrainian refugee family.
And the picture seen here 11:28 is quite misleading, because that’s not what Finns generally look like at all.
Hi! I am a Yooper too. I live in Sicily now and it is rare to see the Upper Peninsula mentioned much anywhere!
I knew from video
Anytime they mention Finns
Gonna mention UP
Great work. Thank you 👍
Really interesting video. Give different point of view. 1st class lesson. 🤗
Finn here.
Native americans have great names for finns: sweat-logde-people, people-who-goes-sweat-logde(/sauna)-a-lot and white-man-who-are-similar-to--us.
also there was
A few years ago, Finns won a large international competition to build log houses in America and Canada. When asked why, even with big import expense? the Abenak Indians justified their choice as follows: "The Finns treated the Indians with respect and equality at all stages of negotiations, and only they looked straight in the eyes.''
The oldest log cabin (Nothnagle Cabin ) in the United States was built by Finnish immigrants, and not swedes.
The Finns integrated well with the Indians creating the Findians :) . It is interesting how there terms are born and how they can change. The Swedes have bad names for Finns from the 60's and 70's when lot of people from Finland went to Sweden to work in the factories. From that time some Swedes even still believe Finns are gived a birth knife (I got a silver spoon, so I don't know). I guess the Finns in Sweden got in a lot of trouble and maybe some had knives. The reputation of the "Finn Devils" has since changed a lot and now Finns are mostly seen as the most peaceful and good people and now the the Dutch use Finns as a term when they complain about the immigration. When some immigrants do crime the Dutch call them Finns as sort of a sarcastic joke as Finns are seen as extremely nice people and to actually name the true nationality if the real immigrants could be seen as a racist thing to say... anyways I wonder how bad cultural appropriation would it be for a Finn to wear some Indian style feathers in their head and say they identify as a Findian. ☺ Naturally, when playing cowboys and Indians as a child, I always chose to be an Indian.
Hello, excuse me, Indian you mean Native American, is that it? Sometimes I have a hard time knowing if you're a native Indian or from India/Bharat Country.
@@hairandcia2028 he means native americans. Finns and native americans shared a deep trust. Their bond was so strong that when native americans attacked white people settlements they always spared finns and never attacked finnish settlements because of the mutual respect these two groups of people had. Finns and native americans lived peacefully next to eachother and many finns and indians got mixed. These people were called Finndians.
@@NordicWiseguy Oh yes, I understand, thanks
wow I learned a lot with this video, deserves more views
very interesting and super informative, but I feel like there's so much interesting points in this whole story that things are just whizzing by over my head. If you could do a series on Finns in America pt1 pt2, or Koreans in America, or French in America pt.1 pt.2 pt.3 etc etc we could tell the story deeper, and with more images and production value.
That would be amazing. I am slowly working through some of these histories. This one left a lot on the table for sure.
Franklin thought Germans were swarthy and not white enough to fit in with American culture. A little over a hundred years later a German started war largely about the Germans whiteness and purity. If it wasn't so tragic it would be funny. I hope for a time when the color of our skin means no more than the color of our clothes.
You are so right. I did a video on that. czcams.com/video/nw1YXaAU1iA/video.html
Hitler’s blond hair really underlines that 🤔
We humans are really stupid. There is no way to deny it. We think so highly of ourselves and tend to press others down and start World wars over such trivial things.
@@NordicWiseguy People tend to find reasons to discriminate against someone. No matter how trivial.
@@kenolson6572 True. We humans never seem to learn.
I am finnish and american, I have lived in finland all my life but i was born in the US so it would be easier to get citizenship. I have visited the US multiple times in my life, english is my first language but I still speak finnish, german and swedish because german and swedish are taught in school. If im being specific im a finn-swed, so someone who is fully finnish but was raised celebrating finnish and swedish culture. I always knew some of my people lived in minnesota, ive never been there and my american family live in the milwaukee area. I am capable of celebrating 3 cultures but I feel more connected with my finnish part because I have very few friends that dont live in finland, I got a finnish education and I celebrate all finnish holidays and I know how to sail and row. I eat saaristolaisleipä which is a traditional bread (Which is literally delicious you need to try it) and when someone asks where im from I say finland because I am more finnish than american by blood and culture. But people see me as american in finland, because i need to be different. I am finnish in the US because I have to be different. In sweden I am a finswed because i need to be different. So nowhere am I normal in a way because to others I am an anomaly.
A Finn here, this part in the history of the Finnish diaspora has always been a curious one for me. Thanks for making a video on it.
My pleasure! I’m enjoying learning about your culture and how people immigrated here to the US
Greetings from Finland! 🇫🇮 I randomly found this in my recommended, and I think it’ll be interesting to watch. I have some relatives in Canada, some of which don’t apparently speak Finnish at all. I remember meeting my mom’s cousin when I was a kid. I didn’t know any English back then so I couldn’t really talk to her :,) she did teach me the numbers up to 10 though
12:46 This is representative of an attitude that I find prevalent in USA even today: Companies regularly take advantage of workers, but when workers try to get something resembling their fair share, they seem to think the workers are trying to take advantage of them. I guess it's projection