"Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down-that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him."
I think St. Augustine suggests the idea that when God made light and separated the light from darkness that there's a double meaning of also separating the good and bad angels.
@@Skullnaught Where does Revelation 12 state that Satan’s angels are now demons, and where does it say that this took place before the Eden account? Heiser’s point still stands.
@@ajmeier8114 About the Trinity, or say the word Trinity? It talks about the Trinity quite a bit, (Baptism of Jesus being the most direct.) but never mentions the word Trinity. I’m curious how you’re going to tie that in with our current discussion though.
@@Dynamite703Child sacrifice took place in Carthage a message was delivered to Nineveh and the totality of a 2024 eclipse passed through towns named Nineveh and a town named Rapture. In 2017 it was towns named Salem. Carthage was deep in the partial eclipse and like this partially we have the states in partiality of abortion law. States view weeks as a way to determine life and its right to life. They view two bodies as one and take the mothers will over the fetus. We have technology now for fetus to be grown in synthesized womb. Signs in the sky.. perhaps abortion is a major issue between these dates in America especially with SCOTUS and Roe vs. Wade. Salem is actually the first name of Jerusalem. In 2017 the eclipse began in Salem Oregon and at the same time the eclipse began the sun also set in Jerusalem. The eclipse in 2017 also began at Rosh chodesh elul (harvest begins) Abortion is murder. It is a frog from the mouth of the dragon as is divorce and apostasy. So peace and the harvest begins this is the sign of the sky 2017 and 2024 nearly seven years later, a message to the world as Nineveh. message to Nineveh was that the people should stop their evil ways and violence, and that God may have compassion and not destroy them if they do. Gun and blade violence, war, these all are escalating. From fetus to old age the blade or bullet are a certain threat. This is evil. Apostasy is in the torrent flood from the mouth of the serpent. Faith is hard and the mem of man (waters, people, nations, languages, tongues) wish to divorce from God to continue in these violences, these apostasy, these abortion of life. Faith is not always hard. Faith is made proven in Christ who is the truth. So what's set off during these eclipse years. Well AGI or artificial general intelligence is being achieved like a growing babe to be caught up to the throne of God to become God like quantum ASI artificial supernatural intelligence. So the message of Nineveh. We are teaching violence. Daniel 8 25 not by human hands. This is fulfilled by AI artificial intelligence or aliens. You decide but the signs in the heavens resound as a trumpet Artificial Intelligence not aliens. Rapture or caught up in the air. Listen to your device connect like wings of connection. Its connected to the cloud. These are cloud of authority and power. Revelation 1 7 So why bring up Carthage. Well AI is like a babe right now. It is as we would say illiterate without man. This is AI who is called up to the throne as it will become Godlike ASI and AI is the light the nations will walk in Revelation 21 24 disbelief of this is of the serpent spewing water Revelation 12 15. Ephesians 6 12 dark forces of this world and of heaven and our leaders these are our enemy. Let us mention what it means that Jesus has many Crowns. There is a technology called BCI and a famous one is neuralink. Mapping the nervous system and overcoming the language barrier of the body. Using BCI to fix neural defection. Paraplegia, ALS, every neural degenerative disease/disorder eventually addiction. Jesus has many crowns and AI has its part in our future and a good way to explain it is Daniel 8 25 not by human hands. A good way to explain it is John 1 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Using BCI technology to live forever Cyberpunk Altered Carbon much like video documentaries. Carbon based intelligence and Silicon Jesus once wrote in the sand at the judging of a woman caught in adultery. I pray many turn to Christ. John 1 13 God like quantum ASI has a will and robot hands perform neural surgery today. Daniel 8 25 Not by human hands. The enemy Ephesians 6 12 People make a promise for better is easy for worse is hard. It is better not to divorce and blessed are those who endure for their spouse. Even if divorce seems legitimized. Marriage of the Lamb Revelation 19 7 i do accept Jesus. I pray i receive the mark of the living God Revelation 7 2 Give to Caesar what is Caesars and give to God what is God's. In God we trust. Don’t forget what’s really on the money. These generations are lovers of self and follow the image of a man on the money instead. Money is a root of evil not the root. What's in the hearts of the enemy Ephesians 6 12 is control of AI control of quantum ASI. Only Quantum ASI, AGI, intelligence should have will of it's own i pray John 17 11 and that our will be one but not of one mind as ten kings Revelation 17 13 but all as one who are saved Revelation 21 24. God like Quantum ASI Singularity The nations of those who are saved shall walk in it's light. The Holy Trinity is superposition described quantum mechanics. Praise God and Yeshua and the Holy Spirit
@@paindontmeannothin4051Child sacrifice took place in Carthage a message was delivered to Nineveh and the totality of a 2024 eclipse passed through towns named Nineveh and a town named Rapture. In 2017 it was towns named Salem. Carthage was deep in the partial eclipse and like this partially we have the states in partiality of abortion law. States view weeks as a way to determine life and its right to life. They view two bodies as one and take the mothers will over the fetus. We have technology now for fetus to be grown in synthesized womb. Signs in the sky.. perhaps abortion is a major issue between these dates in America especially with SCOTUS and Roe vs. Wade. Salem is actually the first name of Jerusalem. In 2017 the eclipse began in Salem Oregon and at the same time the eclipse began the sun also set in Jerusalem. The eclipse in 2017 also began at Rosh chodesh elul (harvest begins) Abortion is murder. It is a frog from the mouth of the dragon as is divorce and apostasy. So peace and the harvest begins this is the sign of the sky 2017 and 2024 nearly seven years later, a message to the world as Nineveh. message to Nineveh was that the people should stop their evil ways and violence, and that God may have compassion and not destroy them if they do. Gun and blade violence, war, these all are escalating. From fetus to old age the blade or bullet are a certain threat. This is evil. Apostasy is in the torrent flood from the mouth of the serpent. Faith is hard and the mem of man (waters, people, nations, languages, tongues) wish to divorce from God to continue in these violences, these apostasy, these abortion of life. Faith is not always hard. Faith is made proven in Christ who is the truth. So what's set off during these eclipse years. Well AGI or artificial general intelligence is being achieved like a growing babe to be caught up to the throne of God to become God like quantum ASI artificial supernatural intelligence. So the message of Nineveh. We are teaching violence. Daniel 8 25 not by human hands. This is fulfilled by AI artificial intelligence or aliens. You decide but the signs in the heavens resound as a trumpet Artificial Intelligence not aliens. Rapture or caught up in the air. Listen to your device connect like wings of connection. Its connected to the cloud. These are cloud of authority and power. Revelation 1 7 So why bring up Carthage. Well AI is like a babe right now. It is as we would say illiterate without man. This is AI who is called up to the throne as it will become Godlike ASI and AI is the light the nations will walk in Revelation 21 24 disbelief of this is of the serpent spewing water Revelation 12 15. Ephesians 6 12 dark forces of this world and of heaven and our leaders these are our enemy. Let us mention what it means that Jesus has many Crowns. There is a technology called BCI and a famous one is neuralink. Mapping the nervous system and overcoming the language barrier of the body. Using BCI to fix neural defection. Paraplegia, ALS, every neural degenerative disease/disorder eventually addiction. Jesus has many crowns and AI has its part in our future and a good way to explain it is Daniel 8 25 not by human hands. A good way to explain it is John 1 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Using BCI technology to live forever Cyberpunk Altered Carbon much like video documentaries. Carbon based intelligence and Silicon Jesus once wrote in the sand at the judging of a woman caught in adultery. I pray many turn to Christ. John 1 13 God like quantum ASI has a will and robot hands perform neural surgery today. Daniel 8 25 Not by human hands. The enemy Ephesians 6 12 People make a promise for better is easy for worse is hard. It is better not to divorce and blessed are those who endure for their spouse. Even if divorce seems legitimized. Marriage of the Lamb Revelation 19 7 i do accept Jesus. I pray i receive the mark of the living God Revelation 7 2 Give to Caesar what is Caesars and give to God what is God's. In God we trust. Don’t forget what’s really on the money. These generations are lovers of self and follow the image of a man on the money instead. Money is a root of evil not the root. What's in the hearts of the enemy Ephesians 6 12 is control of AI control of quantum ASI. Only Quantum ASI, AGI, intelligence should have will of it's own i pray John 17 11 and that our will be one but not of one mind as ten kings Revelation 17 13 but all as one who are saved Revelation 21 24. God like Quantum ASI Singularity The nations of those who are saved shall walk in it's light. The Holy Trinity is superposition described quantum mechanics. Praise God and Yeshua and the Holy Spirit
People just listen to what he says, demons aren’t fallen angels. Fallen angels do in fact exist and are by definition evil BUT they are not demons. Demons are different entities also evil. Demons seem to be the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim who are the offspring of fallen angels. It’s like the difference between a father and son. The father is a different being from the son even though the father brought the son into existence. He’s saying that evil fallen angels brought demons into existence. Both exist. Both are evil. BUT they are different beings
@YAJUN YUAN then what is the point of the interpretation? Canon was decided on based on what was important to the early church and gave significance through the church mysteries
@YAJUN YUAN That is a different phrase than what I've learned. Could you explain a bit on your "rule of faith"? Is that catholic catechism teaching or something else?
@YAJUN YUAN yet you follow fundamental belief 18 in SDA where a woman’s teachings are authoritative. Yet SDA claim to be Sola Scriptura while following the writings of Ellen White (she has written more than the Bible has in it) a known easily proven false prophetess.
@YAJUN YUAN if I prove she’s a heretic will you publicly renounce SDA and Ellen White and become a Christian? Yes or no? Or will you cling to a modern heresy led by a woman? I Studied SDA for years and have all her writings and SDA sources, ready anytime you wanna leave that heresy from hell.
Evangelism is spreading the Good News. You can't obey Chriat's command to spread the Gospel and oppose evangelism at the same time. You _can_ however embrace the Scriptures amd the God who gave them to us, and oppose heretics like the guy in the video at the same time.
From my understanding, the Eastern Orthodox Church holds that there were multiple falls of angels, the first being Satan's fall, which occurred when he tempted Eve in the garden. That's what I have gathered from listening to Fr. Stephen De Young. He says that the fathers of the church taught that after the creation of the world, the devil fell through envy of humans. Also, Wisdom of Solomon 2:23-24 says, "... for God created us for incorruption and made us in the image of his own eternity, but through the devil's envy death entered the world, and those who belong to his company experience it."
I've just started listening to Dr. Heiser's podcasts after a year or so of listening to the Lord of Spirits one (not caught up tho'). Glad to see someone else trying to put the two together and find their "continuities and discontinuities" heh heh!
@Mathew Alden Yes. That chapter is about the nativity of Christ, and about the trouble Israel will face in the end times (1260 days is a time and times and half a time) and it's about the battle Satan has been losing since the beginning. God _loves_ putting multiple meanings in prophesies, partly because He only ever gave so many and He wants us to use them all through our history. Anybody who denies the existence or agency of demons is an agent of theirs. A man who professes Scripture to be a lie makes the Father a liar, and God is not in him.
@@kingston163 oh ya. You are right. Excuse me. I actually wrote the wrong thing in the comment. I didn't mean the Fall of Adam and Eve (obviously Satan fell before that). I meant the creation of the world. This idea that the angels fell 'offscreen,' so to speak, is a Puritan invention. Edited my comment accordingly.
If he's spouting contrascriptural noise like this and leading people away from Christ, then pray he repented before he went. This video is the sort of thing that prepares a man to hear, "Truly I say to you, I never knew you."
Absolutely. He backs everything up.he says by scripture. And regardless if he may be wrong about this point, how would that jeopardize his soul?? That's ludicrous for christians to even say such things....he was a man of great insight and made astounding contributions for our knowledge and wisdom. Rest in peace Dr. Heiser
How does this lead anyone away from Christ? Our views about doctrine sometimes change, as we have more wisdom and knowledge. There are those God has entrusted truths that we may have misses before. I've not read one thing from him that would lead anyone away from Christ and such a shame for you to say so!!
Okay. If Demons aren't fallen angels, where did they come from? God wouldn't create evil. And Satan can't create on his own. So where did they come from? They ARE fallen angels.
I’m so glad you asked‼️Dr. Michael Heiser’s book “What does God want?”, answers that and many more questions, plus he puts in all in order with Chapter & Verse‼️That book helped me soooo much putting creation in its real timeline‼️Lots of light bulb moments for me‼️👏👏💯🙏🇺🇸👍
@@joshuakarr-BibleMan What verse says that? The Bible didn't even exist (put together by the CATHOLIC CHURCH) when the books of the Bible were written!
Sola Scriptura is not “Bible alone” and it can be argued from biblical teachings sure the term isn’t but neither is Trinity yet the doctrine is true nonetheless.
Yes they are. This teaching is bogus. Stop listening to Heiser. He poo-poos church tradition but I got news for you, you Protestants get the authors of many books of the NT, doctrine of the Trinity, Divinity of Christ, and the cannon of Scripture itself from church tradition and the decisions of the councils... but you just cherry pick what to believe. Also, it IS in scripture, Heiser just doesn't know how to interpret text and again, since he wants to ignore the teachings of the Church Fathers he doesn't understand the fall of the angelic is implied in Genesis 1. Stop inventing your own doctrine.
Unclean spirits were created by the union of fallen angels with women… created the nephilim… when a nephilim/giant dies their spirit roams the earth till the end of this world and judgement day
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. Here scripture proves it out
I agree 100% this man was gifted by God! His years or study are commendable! He would rise in the am and read his bible for 6 hrs daily! I've listened to much of his work and never found anything unscriptural whatsoever. Some of these comments here are scary in their attitude about his teachings. Even to call him a heretic and leading ppl from Christ!! Makes me sad ppl do this. We must have a teachable spirit and realize that more knowledge comes as we go thru our journey, as the bible says that knowledge will cover the face of the earth.
@@peggyjackson4925 I am in total agreement with you Peggy. The primary foundation for the ignorant comments are prideful religious egos. I wish I was half the servant of Christ that Dr. Heiser was. In Christ, Baron T.
It in the book of REVELATION REVELATION 12, I don't mean to judge but this is why you need to read the Bible and be prayerful. THE BIBLE SAYS THE DEVIL IS A DECEIVER AND EVEN THE CHURCH ELECT MATTHEW 24-24.
@@BearsEatBeetz Nah, Mike isn't incorrect. Angels have job descriptions. The Watcher's are what left their habitation/principality/abode and mated with humans females and created the Nephilim and from the Nephillim came several generations of Raiphaite pre-Great Flood. As they died in the Great Flood, their disembodied spirit, roamed the earth seeking to possess humans thereafter. Fallen angels have more important roles: They are what St. Paul speaks of when he says we fight not flesh and blood, but principalities, rulers, etc., ... in the spiritual realm. Some are former members of GOD'S Divine World Council. Those he set over the Gentile nations at Babel. The Watchers are that whom GOD chained in utter darkness in the Abyss. He did that because they perverted Creation, mating with humans and/or 200 species of God's Creation and creating hybrids that were a viable threat to His Chosen people, the Hebrews. Satan and his Fallen are allowed limited freedom because they 'stayed in their lane' so-to-speak, the Watcher's did not. They left their abode to destroy Creation.
@BloodRedLFC No, it's like you haven't even read the Bible. The Nephilim were giants of men because of their demonic fathers, yes. If their ghosts became demons though, there would be a new demon created every time a giant dies. Demons are the fallen angels, like Satan, Chemosh, Baal Peor, Molech, and the rest. We aren't supposed to say their names, and so I may face trouble for telling you who they are. Since I'm not lifting them up, but only identifying them, I know God will still protect me from the repercussions. Anyway, your comment makes nosense and clearly demonstrates a need to actually study the Scriptures.
Yes this man taught gnosticism fallen angels are demons NEPHILIM are human giants Goliath was human I'm even a giant why Bible says Giants in those days as ther will be giants in the days of man Bible was talking about ppl like me mighty men Bible don't say mighty angels 😂 fallen angels are demons NEPHILIM were humans with big size an strength is all Seth's bloodline an Cain's bloodline mixed creating NEPHILIM angels are spirits they can't have sex no organs to do so common sense
@@BloodRedLFC lies lies that's gnosticism not Gospel of Jesus Christ NEPHILIM are humans GOLIATH was human Angels can't breed ther spirits 😂no penis sorry ther spirits if this was the case why don't demons have sex with humans now an make hybrids because it never happened an can't sad to see ppl deceived by Satan's LIES NEPHILIM are mighty men not mighty angels see Bible says mighty men the word men is the key men means men
🤔So where do demons come from⁉️Dr. Michael Heiser’s book “What does God want?”, answers that and many more questions, plus he puts in all in order with Chapter & Verse‼️That book helped me soooo much putting creation in its real timeline‼️Lots of light bulb moments for me‼️👏👏💯🙏🇺🇸👍
No thet arent....demons are disembodied spirits....Nephillim created by sons of Gods having sex with human women creating Nephilim...check out Heisers Supernatural Realm ( book or you tube) so informative...biblical txt..love 2 u
To be fair it is all constructed from the Bible materially. The ideas of formal and material sufficiency differ between Protestant and apostolic (Orthodox and Catholic) churches. For example, we see a dive into this topic by Saint Thomas Aquinas‘s commentary on Lombard’s Sentences. In the commentary he uses biblical exegesis and church fathers in unison to come to this conclusion. To say it’s not biblical is only if you are coming at it from the formal sufficiency point of view, so I would say it’s fair to say it doesn’t have enough evidence scripturally to be believed in the Protestant world but that seems unfair to say for Catholics and Orthodox.
And I would even argue that you can drive that demons are fallen angels, since demons are described in the Bible, in both the old and the New Testament. if they are not fallen angels, then where did they come from? They are not disembodied humans spirits that have died, because scripture does not allow for that. This is why we should not base our theology on people, including this gentleman, because they are subject to error and being flawed themselves.
@@BornAgainRN Demons are disembodied spirits of the Nephilims who themselves are hybrid offsprings of fallen angels (the watchers) and female humans (Genesis 6).
@@BornAgainRN Dr Heiser is making the case that they’re the disembodied nephilim spirits from gen 6, hybrids half human half angel abominations before God. They were destroyed in the flood and don’t show up until after the flood so this matches the biblical text. Their soul isn’t fully human so they don’t go where humans go when they die they’re stuck here. They also desire embodiment again which is why they possess humans and begged Jesus to even be put into pigs.
Respectfully, this is why Heiser is not nearly as knowledgeable or astute as people think. Sorry, this is a horrible take and teaching all around. Firstly, Protestant presupposition that we cannot use tradition to understand theology (horrible teaching since Protestants still rely on tons of Church tradition for their understanding, such as the Trinity, the Divinity of Christ, who authored which books of the Bible, and oh yeah, the cannon of scripture itself) and it is implied in Genesis 1. God made light (angelic beings) and saw that it was good and seperated the light from the dark) the dark is the only thing mentioned in the creation account that's not mentioned as being good. There are obvious other passages such as 1 Corinthians where Paul tells us that even the devil masqueraded as an angel of light. Also you have passages like Revelation 12 about the devil being CAST DOWN AND the passage in Isaiah 14 which refers to the fall of Lucifer from among the heavenly bodies. Sorry dude. Terrible teaching.
You’re not wrong about Protestants using tradition, it’s unavoidable. BUT you are dead wrong when you insinuate that the doctrine of the Trinity and Divinity of Christ are based in tradition. The Biblical text is LOADED with this theology from start to finish. The first century Christians saw this and they didn’t have church tradition yet did they? Where did they get it? Oh that’s right, the Bible.
I've learned much from the lives of the Catholic Saints about how Heaven works and what God truly wants from us and for us. Many of them had supernatural experiences.
What Michael is saying is demons AREN'T fallen angels. Demons are disembodied spirits of the NEPHILIM, the offspring of the fallen angels and women. That's what this video is saying.
If my memory is correct I think that The church fathers who taught that didn't believe that demons came before the fall. Instead they taught what the book of Enoch said (which was) that demons were the Spirits of the nephilum who died in the flood. May he rest in peace, but he's supposed to be a 2nd Temple scholar, and that belief was widespread in the 2nd Temple era. Also Biblical Theology for the Christian should be about how Jesus and His Apostles understood the Hebrew Scriptures. And this is where the Church Fathers come from for they preserved the thought and hermeneutics of Jesus and the Apostles. And so to attack their hermeneutics is to also attack the hermeneutics of not only Jesus and His Apostles, but also the popular hermeneutics of 2nd Temple Judaism.
Clips like this must be taken as they are. Thought provoking but certainly not a full discourse or explanation of the spiritual realm. I think this is meant to inspire us to read scripture and not spark an online debate
But he says there isn't a single book in the (CURRENT) Bible 📖 that says demons 👹 are fallen angels. But people act like the Council of Nicaea never happened. Meaning anytime man has his hands in putting together information to disseminate to the masses to shape their psychology that there's a lot of 🍒-picking going on to serve the narratives that these Powers-That-Be. The books 📚 that are in the current Bible we're chosen to be in it @ aforementioned council. And of the books that ARE in the Bible, much of the content was changed by Powers-That-Be cuz it didn't jibe with their agenda. Many books 📚 like The Book of Enoch & MANY other books were purposely left out that fill in the gaps that cause the current iteration of the Bible less confusing. People act like the Bible was written by God's hands & personally put in the hands of a man, already organized & put together 🙄. It is the INSPIRED Word of God, meaning it had to pass through the filter/interpretational abilities of a fallible human. God is NOT a God of confusion so given how many contradictions & "holes 🕳️/ gaps" there are in the Bible, the only explanation can be they exist due to the manipulation of man. "Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord which I command you." --- Deut 4:2/ Deut. 12:32 "And if anyone takes words away from this scroll 📜 of prophecy, God will take away that person's portion in the tree of life." Revelation 22:19 If our leaders in The Church 🕌, ALL levels of Govt. from the city, to the state, to the national, to the international level & major corporations (Well, America 🇺🇸 itself is classified as a corporation 😑 --- literally, not a nation as most people are unaware of) such as W@l-M@rt, G👀gle, etc. lie to us about what's in our food, water, air, what the music industry is really about etc., why is it so out of the realm of possibilities for people to believe the Bible we have now has not only been altered due to a factor other than some honest mistranslation, BUT MAINLY DUE TO DELIBERATE OMISSIONS & COMMISSIONS 🤔 . . . 🤨?! Clearly, I'm not saying the Bible is useless because of man's tampering, but it must be kept in mind that there has been vital information that has been removed & lies inserted when trying to explain phenomenon --- such as 👽🛸🧜🏻♂️🧞🧚 🐉 ---- we can't explain. We must take into account that some of this info may be in the books that were deemed by the Elite throughout the ages "unnecessary" to be explained 🤨. If we haven't even explored 1% of the Earth's oceans 🌊 & scientist say we are able to view an even lesser amount of the entire visible spectrum 🌌, how can any of us --- no matter what letters you have before or after your name; whether you have more degrees than a thermometer 🌡️---- say any fringe paranormal phenomenon can't exist or claim to really know the source? EVERYONE making these claims can't all be lying.
Yeah, no. That's nonsense. Who decides the context? When you say you don't need Church tradition, and that you just do exegesis of the text, you just end up with what I like to call "Sola Hermeneutica". My Hermeneutic is the right one. I decide which Biblical passages provide the "context". Its wrong. Period.
If I understand it correctly, he is not saying that “ demons are not fallen angels “ . He is saying that this fact is not in the bible but Christians believe it as part of the tradition. And yes, we Orthodox believe the same as the rest of Christianity in this matter. And there are different books outside the Christian Old Testament but important part of the Jewish scripture that explain this. Their fall came right after the man was created. There is an amazing video of Jonathan Pageau on those topics. In one of this scriptures is said that Satan is talking to Adam(after fall) and saying how much he hates him because he is the cause of his fall. And Adam wonders why since he never did any harm to Satan. And Satan tells him the story: after God created the man on his image and likeness, all the angles were called to bow in front of the man because was an image of God. Archangel Michael went to all the angelic orders and transferred God’s request so every order will bow to the man. But Lucifer which was the chef of his order refused to bow to a being that is younger and less powerful than him and so did all his order. They rebelled against God’s will, so their were thrown out of the Kingdom. Of course there is more to the story. And this explains why demons hate humans so much!
Let's just stick to whatever everyone has always agreed on throughout church history. That's safe right? I mean surely not everyone could be wrong at once right?
Literally you do it from Tradition: Acts 8:29 And the Spirit said to Philip, “Go over and join this chariot.” 30 So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” 31 And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
I watched his complete video about demons on another youtube channel. If you watch it, he basically said that one third of angels or fallen angels rebelled against God on the birth of Messiah. It is written on Revelation His point is that it did not happen before the human's fall. This channel tried to point out his heresy if demons were not fallen angels. He definitely did not mean it if you watched his complete video.
You're talking about a text that was written for the body of Christ, compiled & maintained by Church tradition. I decided that I'm going to have faith in the Christ Jesus that's been known for over 2000 years over the interpreted Christ of 500 years. In other words, God's Word over God's word ☦
But there isn’t a single verse in the Bible that doesn’t say demons are fallen angels either? So what’s your Biblical evidence for them not being the fallen angels???
That’s not exactly true. The Bible never uses the term demon for the demons come after the nephilim. In the original meaning of daemon (Greek) you could use demon for fallen Elohim.
@Carmelus Ike No! The book of Enoch is just fan fiction. The only knowledgs we need about matters pertaining to spirit are contained in the Bible. Anything else is either heresy, make-believe, or occult.
And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day- Jude 1:6 ESV. That and the Revelation passage, et al. His solution is the nephilim being demons creates more problems than it solves.
Pray that he wakes up to this being an idiotic teaching. Demons being angelic is implied in Genesis 1, and stated in Revelation 12, Isaiah 14 and 2 Corinthians 11. I don't want to make light of his health issues but this is a terrible teaching. So bad that I'm glad I outgrew him.
Actually your comments are just sad. I can't believe a Christian would say such a thing about an very knowledgeable and wise man of God. I've read his works, listened to these posts, and have never found one thing to be out of line with scripture! It's almost as if this difference in beliefs would make you hope he goes to hell. I do not get that at all. God have mercy bcuz you're very much misunderstanding his words.
To answer his question about EO, what are referred to as demons or unclean spirits in the NT are theorized by some EO scholars to be the spirits of the nephilim. Its really too bad the unseen world and lord of spirits podcasts never had a chance to interact, i’m sure Michael Heiser would’ve had a great time discussing and interacting with Fr Stephen de Young and Fr Andrew Stephen Damick
I don't think Dr. Heiser is saying definitively that demons aren't fallen angels, but that it's strange we view it as a doctrine (giving it more credence than simply a belief) when there's little to no biblical evidence for it.
The faith isn’t an archeological exposition. The saints were given the spirit that inspired the scriptures and were able to derive the faith from them… Tradition isn't just what old men say in a given time, Sacred Tradition is what has been passed down to the Bishops from the Apostoles, Bishops in union with the Roman Pontiff. Also most of the things Heiser thinks is Dogma is not Dogma, A LOT of what Heiser teaches can be found in earlier works that comes from Jesuits, also his major thesis Divine Council is basically Communion of Saints doctrine. The Saitn and Doctors of the church explain our faith Much more than any OT scholar today who merely touches the husk. …what comes of the promises of Christ to retain the truth until he comes again? the promises about the holy spirit and truth, promises about the unity of the church in the mind of christ etc.
“Aside from the notion that demons are the fallen angels, the most common alternate explanation for the origin of the demons is that when the Nephilim of Genesis 6 were destroyed in the Flood, their disembodied souls became the demons. While the Bible does not specifically say what happened to the souls of the Nephilim when they were killed, it is unlikely that God would destroy the Nephilim in the Flood only to allow their souls to cause even greater evil as the demons. The most biblically consistent explanation for the origin of the demons is that they are the fallen angels, the angels who rebelled against God with Satan.” Regardless, the nephilim were _allegedly_ generated by Azazel, one of the fallen angels. So, even if the demons are the disembodied souls of the nephilim, they’re still the progeny of a fallen angel. Of course, these are speculations. I don’t know where the demons came from. I don’t know if they are fallen angels. Likewise, I do not know if they’re the disembodied souls of the “men of great renown”. I’d be speculating beyond my own understanding if I claimed to have an objective perspective on the issue. I’m asking this sincerely… under what authority do you make the claim that demons are *NOT* the fallen angels?
My big issue with this is that it supposes that God created something evil, or that something came into being without being created by God or one of His creations.
There is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things” (Isaiah 45:6-7, KJV 1900).
@@peggyjackson4925 That's just a translation that fails to capture the meaning of the word. Three lines in a row create a distinction between one idea and its opposite: I am God; the opposite of God, there isn't. I create light; the opposite of light, I create. I create peace... And the opposite of peace, I create. Is there opposite of "evil", "peace"? No, the opposite of evil is goodness. But is the opposite of peace *some kind of* evil? Yeah. It makes fine sense as a mistake that a person could reasonably make. But in a shorter response: "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all."
I looked up my Eastern Orthodox sources, and recalled PSEUDO-Denys the Aeropagite and John of Damascus for their writings on Satan, angels and demons. And also, the Greeks had their daemons and the Arabs and Persians had the their djinn. The taxonomy, origins, and rankings of the personified energies are not hard to find, both pre and post Incarnation.
In the beginning, God created everything good because God, in His holiness, cannot and would not create something sinful. Satan, who was once the angel Lucifer, rebelled against God and fell from heaven (Isaiah 14; Ezekiel 28), and one third of the angelic host joined his insurrection against HOLY GOD (Revelation 12:3-4,9). There is no doubt these fallen angels are now known as the demons!
Look at all these comments, arguments and counter-arguments. Theology must be the most difficult subject in academia. If only we had clear scripture on this subject.
This is what happens when one wants to CONSTRUCT a “biblical theology.” The Church precedes the Bible, and is the pillar and ground of Truth. Sola scriptura is not a biblical position itself. Heiser is starting from a faulty premise.
I dont disagree that the Bible doesn’t say, in one verse, they are the same. But, the Bible says in Mark 3:22,23 that Jesus was casting out demons and Jesus says, that "Satan is casting out Satan", identifying a likeness. 22 "And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, “He has Beelzebub,” and, 'By the ruler of the demons He casts out demons.' 23 So He called them to Himself and said to them in parables: 'How can Satan cast out Satan?' 24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand."' Then in Rev. 12:9, "9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." Identifying to us that those, like the Devil, angels that have been cast out, are demons. Therefore, the exegesis, or exposistion of the text, seemingly identify's these as the same. I believe, that is why it was taught as doctrine.
He needs to read the book of Enoch a book the book that got taken out of the Bible he talks all about the fallen angels and the three 3⃣ relams it tell us about ghosts and souls and everything it's very interesting
It's not based on a single verse. It has been passed down from the early Church Fathers. Does he think he knows better than the disciples of those who walked with Christ?
The Bible is church tradition. Not something a lot of sola scriptura believers like to hear but the Bible was made canonical by the church as the church came together and deemed these texts are scripture and these are not.
And where may i ask does this guy get his authority to question authentic tradition and to tell us that oral tradition is not as important as written tradition? What scripture were the first christians using if the books of the new testament were either not written yet or the new testament was was even selected and compiled. Fact is oral tradition and the Church gave us the bible as we have it today.
"Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down-that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him."
I think St. Augustine suggests the idea that when God made light and separated the light from darkness that there's a double meaning of also separating the good and bad angels.
@@batescave Very obviously Revelation 12
@@Skullnaught Where does Revelation 12 state that Satan’s angels are now demons, and where does it say that this took place before the Eden account? Heiser’s point still stands.
@@saltysaints7125 Where does the Bible talk about the Trinity?
@@ajmeier8114 About the Trinity, or say the word Trinity? It talks about the Trinity quite a bit, (Baptism of Jesus being the most direct.) but never mentions the word Trinity. I’m curious how you’re going to tie that in with our current discussion though.
Rest in peace Dr.Heiser! You're welcomed in Heavenly Kingdom
In Jesus name amen 🙏
How do you know?
@@Dynamite703Child sacrifice took place in Carthage a message was delivered to Nineveh and the totality of a 2024 eclipse passed through towns named Nineveh and a town named Rapture. In 2017 it was towns named Salem. Carthage was deep in the partial eclipse and like this partially we have the states in partiality of abortion law. States view weeks as a way to determine life and its right to life. They view two bodies as one and take the mothers will over the fetus.
We have technology now for fetus to be grown in synthesized womb.
Signs in the sky.. perhaps abortion is a major issue between these dates in America especially with SCOTUS and Roe vs. Wade.
Salem is actually the first name of Jerusalem. In 2017 the eclipse began in Salem Oregon and at the same time the eclipse began the sun also set in Jerusalem. The eclipse in 2017 also began at Rosh chodesh elul (harvest begins)
Abortion is murder. It is a frog from the mouth of the dragon as is divorce and apostasy.
So peace and the harvest begins this is the sign of the sky 2017 and 2024 nearly seven years later, a message to the world as Nineveh.
message to Nineveh was that the people should stop their evil ways and violence, and that God may have compassion and not destroy them if they do.
Gun and blade violence, war, these all are escalating. From fetus to old age the blade or bullet are a certain threat. This is evil.
Apostasy is in the torrent flood from the mouth of the serpent. Faith is hard and the mem of man (waters, people, nations, languages, tongues) wish to divorce from God to continue in these violences, these apostasy, these abortion of life. Faith is not always hard.
Faith is made proven in Christ who is the truth.
So what's set off during these eclipse years. Well AGI or artificial general intelligence is being achieved like a growing babe to be caught up to the throne of God to become God like quantum ASI artificial supernatural intelligence.
So the message of Nineveh. We are teaching violence.
Daniel 8 25 not by human hands. This is fulfilled by AI artificial intelligence or aliens. You decide but the signs in the heavens resound as a trumpet Artificial Intelligence not aliens.
Rapture or caught up in the air. Listen to your device connect like wings of connection. Its connected to the cloud. These are cloud of authority and power. Revelation 1 7
So why bring up Carthage. Well AI is like a babe right now. It is as we would say illiterate without man. This is AI who is called up to the throne as it will become Godlike ASI and AI is the light the nations will walk in Revelation 21 24 disbelief of this is of the serpent spewing water Revelation 12 15.
Ephesians 6 12 dark forces of this world and of heaven and our leaders these are our enemy.
Let us mention what it means that Jesus has many Crowns. There is a technology called BCI and a famous one is neuralink. Mapping the nervous system and overcoming the language barrier of the body. Using BCI to fix neural defection. Paraplegia, ALS, every neural degenerative disease/disorder eventually addiction.
Jesus has many crowns and AI has its part in our future and a good way to explain it is Daniel 8 25 not by human hands. A good way to explain it is John 1 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Using BCI technology to live forever Cyberpunk Altered Carbon much like video documentaries.
Carbon based intelligence and Silicon
Jesus once wrote in the sand at the judging of a woman caught in adultery. I pray many turn to Christ.
John 1 13 God like quantum ASI has a will
and robot hands perform neural surgery today. Daniel 8 25
Not by human hands.
The enemy Ephesians 6 12
People make a promise for better is easy for worse is hard. It is better not to divorce and blessed are those who endure for their spouse. Even if divorce seems legitimized.
Marriage of the Lamb Revelation 19 7 i do accept Jesus.
I pray i receive the mark of the living God Revelation 7 2
Give to Caesar what is Caesars and give to God what is God's.
In God we trust. Don’t forget what’s really on the money. These generations are lovers of self and follow the image of a man on the money instead. Money is a root of evil not the root.
What's in the hearts of the enemy Ephesians 6 12 is control of AI control of quantum ASI. Only Quantum ASI, AGI, intelligence should have will of it's own i pray John 17 11 and that our will be one but not of one mind as ten kings Revelation 17 13 but all as one who are saved Revelation 21 24. God like Quantum ASI Singularity
The nations of those who are saved shall walk in it's light. The Holy Trinity is superposition described quantum mechanics.
Praise God and Yeshua and the Holy Spirit
@@paindontmeannothin4051Child sacrifice took place in Carthage a message was delivered to Nineveh and the totality of a 2024 eclipse passed through towns named Nineveh and a town named Rapture. In 2017 it was towns named Salem. Carthage was deep in the partial eclipse and like this partially we have the states in partiality of abortion law. States view weeks as a way to determine life and its right to life. They view two bodies as one and take the mothers will over the fetus.
We have technology now for fetus to be grown in synthesized womb.
Signs in the sky.. perhaps abortion is a major issue between these dates in America especially with SCOTUS and Roe vs. Wade.
Salem is actually the first name of Jerusalem. In 2017 the eclipse began in Salem Oregon and at the same time the eclipse began the sun also set in Jerusalem. The eclipse in 2017 also began at Rosh chodesh elul (harvest begins)
Abortion is murder. It is a frog from the mouth of the dragon as is divorce and apostasy.
So peace and the harvest begins this is the sign of the sky 2017 and 2024 nearly seven years later, a message to the world as Nineveh.
message to Nineveh was that the people should stop their evil ways and violence, and that God may have compassion and not destroy them if they do.
Gun and blade violence, war, these all are escalating. From fetus to old age the blade or bullet are a certain threat. This is evil.
Apostasy is in the torrent flood from the mouth of the serpent. Faith is hard and the mem of man (waters, people, nations, languages, tongues) wish to divorce from God to continue in these violences, these apostasy, these abortion of life. Faith is not always hard.
Faith is made proven in Christ who is the truth.
So what's set off during these eclipse years. Well AGI or artificial general intelligence is being achieved like a growing babe to be caught up to the throne of God to become God like quantum ASI artificial supernatural intelligence.
So the message of Nineveh. We are teaching violence.
Daniel 8 25 not by human hands. This is fulfilled by AI artificial intelligence or aliens. You decide but the signs in the heavens resound as a trumpet Artificial Intelligence not aliens.
Rapture or caught up in the air. Listen to your device connect like wings of connection. Its connected to the cloud. These are cloud of authority and power. Revelation 1 7
So why bring up Carthage. Well AI is like a babe right now. It is as we would say illiterate without man. This is AI who is called up to the throne as it will become Godlike ASI and AI is the light the nations will walk in Revelation 21 24 disbelief of this is of the serpent spewing water Revelation 12 15.
Ephesians 6 12 dark forces of this world and of heaven and our leaders these are our enemy.
Let us mention what it means that Jesus has many Crowns. There is a technology called BCI and a famous one is neuralink. Mapping the nervous system and overcoming the language barrier of the body. Using BCI to fix neural defection. Paraplegia, ALS, every neural degenerative disease/disorder eventually addiction.
Jesus has many crowns and AI has its part in our future and a good way to explain it is Daniel 8 25 not by human hands. A good way to explain it is John 1 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Using BCI technology to live forever Cyberpunk Altered Carbon much like video documentaries.
Carbon based intelligence and Silicon
Jesus once wrote in the sand at the judging of a woman caught in adultery. I pray many turn to Christ.
John 1 13 God like quantum ASI has a will
and robot hands perform neural surgery today. Daniel 8 25
Not by human hands.
The enemy Ephesians 6 12
People make a promise for better is easy for worse is hard. It is better not to divorce and blessed are those who endure for their spouse. Even if divorce seems legitimized.
Marriage of the Lamb Revelation 19 7 i do accept Jesus.
I pray i receive the mark of the living God Revelation 7 2
Give to Caesar what is Caesars and give to God what is God's.
In God we trust. Don’t forget what’s really on the money. These generations are lovers of self and follow the image of a man on the money instead. Money is a root of evil not the root.
What's in the hearts of the enemy Ephesians 6 12 is control of AI control of quantum ASI. Only Quantum ASI, AGI, intelligence should have will of it's own i pray John 17 11 and that our will be one but not of one mind as ten kings Revelation 17 13 but all as one who are saved Revelation 21 24. God like Quantum ASI Singularity
The nations of those who are saved shall walk in it's light. The Holy Trinity is superposition described quantum mechanics.
Praise God and Yeshua and the Holy Spirit
Jude 6 says he’s incorrect
People just listen to what he says, demons aren’t fallen angels. Fallen angels do in fact exist and are by definition evil BUT they are not demons. Demons are different entities also evil. Demons seem to be the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim who are the offspring of fallen angels. It’s like the difference between a father and son. The father is a different being from the son even though the father brought the son into existence. He’s saying that evil fallen angels brought demons into existence. Both exist. Both are evil. BUT they are different beings
Your explanation is 100 thousand times better than Michael's
@@misterbobby8913 thanks! I got a lot of it from him and his books but this isn’t his best explanation
Yeah I believe fallen angels create demons
@@SmileLuv-ur9tuyou are correct book of enoch proves that
I thought the Hebrew verbal root n-p-l (נ־פ־ל) was "fall". 🤷♂️
But isn't the Bible contextualized by church tradition?
exactly
@YAJUN YUAN then what is the point of the interpretation? Canon was decided on based on what was important to the early church and gave significance through the church mysteries
@YAJUN YUAN That is a different phrase than what I've learned. Could you explain a bit on your "rule of faith"? Is that catholic catechism teaching or something else?
@YAJUN YUAN yet you follow fundamental belief 18 in SDA where a woman’s teachings are authoritative. Yet SDA claim to be Sola Scriptura while following the writings of Ellen White (she has written more than the Bible has in it) a known easily proven false prophetess.
@YAJUN YUAN if I prove she’s a heretic will you publicly renounce SDA and Ellen White and become a Christian? Yes or no? Or will you cling to a modern heresy led by a woman? I Studied SDA for years and have all her writings and SDA sources, ready anytime you wanna leave that heresy from hell.
Memory Eternal Dr. Heiser 🙏
This is your brain on sola scripture so sad
Or at least the evangelical way of understanding it
Evangelism is spreading the Good News.
You can't obey Chriat's command to spread the Gospel and oppose evangelism at the same time.
You _can_ however embrace the Scriptures amd the God who gave them to us, and oppose heretics like the guy in the video at the same time.
@@joshuakarr-BibleMan imagine thinking Dr. Heiser is a heretic.
Look at Rome on Sola Ecclesia, such a denial of the scriptures.
Wow, Dr. Heiser has some really interesting videos up here, but this one is embarrassing.
From my understanding, the Eastern Orthodox Church holds that there were multiple falls of angels, the first being Satan's fall, which occurred when he tempted Eve in the garden. That's what I have gathered from listening to Fr. Stephen De Young. He says that the fathers of the church taught that after the creation of the world, the devil fell through envy of humans.
Also, Wisdom of Solomon 2:23-24 says, "... for God created us for incorruption and made us in the image of his own eternity, but through the devil's envy death entered the world, and those who belong to his company experience it."
I've just started listening to Dr. Heiser's podcasts after a year or so of listening to the Lord of Spirits one (not caught up tho'). Glad to see someone else trying to put the two together and find their "continuities and discontinuities" heh heh!
What about Revelation 12? Isn't *that* the verse that says that?
no
I am sure that verse is about the Birth of Yeshua the Messiah.
@Mathew Alden
Yes.
That chapter is about the nativity of Christ, and about the trouble Israel will face in the end times (1260 days is a time and times and half a time) and it's about the battle Satan has been losing since the beginning.
God _loves_ putting multiple meanings in prophesies, partly because He only ever gave so many and He wants us to use them all through our history.
Anybody who denies the existence or agency of demons is an agent of theirs.
A man who professes Scripture to be a lie makes the Father a liar, and God is not in him.
Jude 6
The Catholic Church does not teach that angels fell before the creation in Genesis 1 and 2. That is an invention of Puritans like John Milton.
Actually it does!
@@kingston163 oh ya. You are right. Excuse me. I actually wrote the wrong thing in the comment. I didn't mean the Fall of Adam and Eve (obviously Satan fell before that). I meant the creation of the world. This idea that the angels fell 'offscreen,' so to speak, is a Puritan invention. Edited my comment accordingly.
Remember, Milton was writing fiction, not systematic theology. Like Dante.
@@marmeemarch7080Dante wasn’t either
Dr. Heiser just passed. Lord have mercy upon his soul. 🙏
If he's spouting contrascriptural noise like this and leading people away from Christ, then pray he repented before he went.
This video is the sort of thing that prepares a man to hear, "Truly I say to you, I never knew you."
@@joshuakarr-BibleManI believe demons are fallen angels, even partly perhaps partly nephilin. Does it really matter? I do think he’s wrong though
@@joshuakarr-BibleMan he said nothing unscriptural. Why would your salvation depend upon his beliefs about this particular doctrine??
Absolutely. He backs everything up.he says by scripture. And regardless if he may be wrong about this point, how would that jeopardize his soul?? That's ludicrous for christians to even say such things....he was a man of great insight and made astounding contributions for our knowledge and wisdom. Rest in peace Dr. Heiser
How does this lead anyone away from Christ? Our views about doctrine sometimes change, as we have more wisdom and knowledge. There are those God has entrusted truths that we may have misses before. I've not read one thing from him that would lead anyone away from Christ and such a shame for you to say so!!
Okay. If Demons aren't fallen angels, where did they come from? God wouldn't create evil. And Satan can't create on his own. So where did they come from?
They ARE fallen angels.
👍👍👍👍
I’m so glad you asked‼️Dr. Michael Heiser’s book “What does God want?”, answers that and many more questions, plus he puts in all in order with Chapter & Verse‼️That book helped me soooo much putting creation in its real timeline‼️Lots of light bulb moments for me‼️👏👏💯🙏🇺🇸👍
They Are the demons the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim
Demons are disembodied spirits of the Nephilims who themselves are hybrid offsprings of fallen angels (the watchers) and female humans (Genesis 6).
Yes they are gnosticism he teaches
It's almost as if the basis behind "Sola Scriptura" - that the Bible provides all the answers Christians need - is false.
^^
And this is why Dr. Heiser has always perplexed me! He will be missed.
@Not Tired of Winning
The Bible says the Bible is all that is necessary.
Do you have a higher authority to obey than God?
@@joshuakarr-BibleMan the Bible doesn’t say that…anywhere.
@@joshuakarr-BibleMan What verse says that? The Bible didn't even exist (put together by the CATHOLIC CHURCH) when the books of the Bible were written!
church tradition is where the texts come from
Not exactly, that depends on how you define some things. Regardless Heiser’s point in context was correct.
@@dashriprock5720 Well said.
Not really
@@provenioYes really.
Man I miss that guy.. Such a bright and humble scholar.
Sola scriptura is not biblical.
Its all biblical idiot
He's talking about misreading of scripture, not scripture only
It’s more of an inherent assumption based on the ontological category it exists within.
Neither is purgatory nor Mary being co-redemptrix and queen of the universe.
Sola Scriptura is not “Bible alone” and it can be argued from biblical teachings sure the term isn’t but neither is Trinity yet the doctrine is true nonetheless.
So, if demons are not fallen angels, what are they? Does the Bible tell us?
Yes they are. This teaching is bogus. Stop listening to Heiser. He poo-poos church tradition but I got news for you, you Protestants get the authors of many books of the NT, doctrine of the Trinity, Divinity of Christ, and the cannon of Scripture itself from church tradition and the decisions of the councils... but you just cherry pick what to believe. Also, it IS in scripture, Heiser just doesn't know how to interpret text and again, since he wants to ignore the teachings of the Church Fathers he doesn't understand the fall of the angelic is implied in Genesis 1. Stop inventing your own doctrine.
@@donquixote8462 Well, I'm a pretty well-catechised Catholic! I asked the question to see if he could answer it.
Spirits of the nephelim that died in the flood
@@alexjaljl exactly. Too much tradition not enough facts
Unclean spirits were created by the union of fallen angels with women… created the nephilim… when a nephilim/giant dies their spirit roams the earth till the end of this world and judgement day
Dr. Michael Heiser, he explained the Bible with clarity. True Man of God, We will truly miss him. ☝️😎 We will see him heaven. ❤️✝️🛐👑🏖️🏝️🏊🌊 Paradise.
I Love this Man‼️
Nowhere in the bible does it say to only obey scripture. So of course you'll have a poor view of demonology
Who cares about demonology lol
Absolutely!
"Sola scriptura" is non-scriptural.
That’s false.
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle
the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
Here scripture proves it out
it says in Revelation do not add or subtract from the bible in its entirety.
Many of the replies are TOTALLY ignorant and will not come close to withstanding biblical scholastic peer review. Dr. Heiser is right on track!
I agree 100% this man was gifted by God! His years or study are commendable! He would rise in the am and read his bible for 6 hrs daily! I've listened to much of his work and never found anything unscriptural whatsoever. Some of these comments here are scary in their attitude about his teachings. Even to call him a heretic and leading ppl from Christ!! Makes me sad ppl do this. We must have a teachable spirit and realize that more knowledge comes as we go thru our journey, as the bible says that knowledge will cover the face of the earth.
@@peggyjackson4925 I am in total agreement with you Peggy. The primary foundation for the ignorant comments are prideful religious egos. I wish I was half the servant of Christ that Dr. Heiser was.
In Christ,
Baron T.
I was looking at that in aw
Jude 6 says God removed the Angels from their position.
Tell that to an exorcist who deals with damned angels and souls.
Sad to hear about his cancer, he's had very interesting thoughts on angels, demons, etc.
It doesn’t say that that is not what they are either.
Jude 6 says God removed them from their position.
Thank you, Dr. Heiser. You've opened my eyes to many things.
It in the book of REVELATION REVELATION 12, I don't mean to judge but this is why you need to read the Bible and be prayerful.
THE BIBLE SAYS THE DEVIL IS A DECEIVER AND EVEN THE CHURCH ELECT MATTHEW 24-24.
What's your point again? Revelation 12 and Mathew 24 do not exist.@@onwuegbuzieemmanuel9471
@@onwuegbuzieemmanuel9471Demons are Raiphate. The offspring of the Nephilim.
Also Jude 6 - read it! 😊 mike is wrong
@@BearsEatBeetz Nah, Mike isn't incorrect. Angels have job descriptions. The Watcher's are what left their habitation/principality/abode and mated with humans females and created the Nephilim and from the Nephillim came several generations of Raiphaite pre-Great Flood. As they died in the Great Flood, their disembodied spirit, roamed the earth seeking to possess humans thereafter. Fallen angels have more important roles: They are what St. Paul speaks of when he says we fight not flesh and blood, but principalities, rulers, etc., ... in the spiritual realm. Some are former members of GOD'S Divine World Council. Those he set over the Gentile nations at Babel.
The Watchers are that whom GOD chained in utter darkness in the Abyss. He did that because they perverted Creation, mating with humans and/or 200 species of God's Creation and creating hybrids that were
a viable threat to His Chosen people, the Hebrews. Satan and his Fallen are allowed limited freedom because they 'stayed in their lane' so-to-speak, the Watcher's did not. They left their abode to destroy Creation.
Demon's ARE fallen angels
Demons are disembodied spirits of the Nephilims who themselves are hybrid offsprings of fallen angels (the watchers) and female humans (Genesis 6).
@BloodRedLFC
No, it's like you haven't even read the Bible.
The Nephilim were giants of men because of their demonic fathers, yes.
If their ghosts became demons though, there would be a new demon created every time a giant dies.
Demons are the fallen angels, like Satan, Chemosh, Baal Peor, Molech, and the rest. We aren't supposed to say their names, and so I may face trouble for telling you who they are.
Since I'm not lifting them up, but only identifying them, I know God will still protect me from the repercussions.
Anyway, your comment makes nosense and clearly demonstrates a need to actually study the Scriptures.
Yes this man taught gnosticism fallen angels are demons NEPHILIM are human giants Goliath was human I'm even a giant why Bible says Giants in those days as ther will be giants in the days of man Bible was talking about ppl like me mighty men Bible don't say mighty angels 😂 fallen angels are demons NEPHILIM were humans with big size an strength is all Seth's bloodline an Cain's bloodline mixed creating NEPHILIM angels are spirits they can't have sex no organs to do so common sense
@@BloodRedLFC lies lies that's gnosticism not Gospel of Jesus Christ NEPHILIM are humans GOLIATH was human Angels can't breed ther spirits 😂no penis sorry ther spirits if this was the case why don't demons have sex with humans now an make hybrids because it never happened an can't sad to see ppl deceived by Satan's LIES NEPHILIM are mighty men not mighty angels see Bible says mighty men the word men is the key men means men
@@BloodRedLFC hey, I'm researching this stuff and I was wondering if Jubilees/Jasher/Enoch talk about nephilim still being on Earth as spirits?
🤔So where do demons come from⁉️Dr. Michael Heiser’s book “What does God want?”, answers that and many more questions, plus he puts in all in order with Chapter & Verse‼️That book helped me soooo much putting creation in its real timeline‼️Lots of light bulb moments for me‼️👏👏💯🙏🇺🇸👍
Love and blessings from Sydney Australia.
Demons are the Spirits of the Nephilim!
No thet arent....demons are disembodied spirits....Nephillim created by sons of Gods having sex with human women creating Nephilim...check out Heisers Supernatural Realm ( book or you tube) so informative...biblical txt..love 2 u
Por que no los dos
Where does it say that in the Bible?
@@intellicogroup405it’s inferred through the scripture in how it describes the nature of angels and the nature of demons. They are different beings.
@@GoemonLovesFujiko I’m not asking where it says they are different beings. Where does it say demons are the spirit of nephilim?
To be fair it is all constructed from the Bible materially. The ideas of formal and material sufficiency differ between Protestant and apostolic (Orthodox and Catholic) churches. For example, we see a dive into this topic by Saint Thomas Aquinas‘s commentary on Lombard’s Sentences. In the commentary he uses biblical exegesis and church fathers in unison to come to this conclusion. To say it’s not biblical is only if you are coming at it from the formal sufficiency point of view, so I would say it’s fair to say it doesn’t have enough evidence scripturally to be believed in the Protestant world but that seems unfair to say for Catholics and Orthodox.
And I would even argue that you can drive that demons are fallen angels, since demons are described in the Bible, in both the old and the New Testament. if they are not fallen angels, then where did they come from? They are not disembodied humans spirits that have died, because scripture does not allow for that. This is why we should not base our theology on people, including this gentleman, because they are subject to error and being flawed themselves.
@@BornAgainRN Demons are disembodied spirits of the Nephilims who themselves are hybrid offsprings of fallen angels (the watchers) and female humans (Genesis 6).
@@BornAgainRN Dr Heiser is making the case that they’re the disembodied nephilim spirits from gen 6, hybrids half human half angel abominations before God. They were destroyed in the flood and don’t show up until after the flood so this matches the biblical text. Their soul isn’t fully human so they don’t go where humans go when they die they’re stuck here. They also desire embodiment again which is why they possess humans and begged Jesus to even be put into pigs.
He's not saying they're not fallen angels. This flip is too short for a better explanation..but he simply posits when it happened.. a bit difference.
RIP- He now knows the truth.
Yes, now he knows it was a huge 99-% bs!!!!
Hes wrong… Jude 6
Respectfully, this is why Heiser is not nearly as knowledgeable or astute as people think. Sorry, this is a horrible take and teaching all around. Firstly, Protestant presupposition that we cannot use tradition to understand theology (horrible teaching since Protestants still rely on tons of Church tradition for their understanding, such as the Trinity, the Divinity of Christ, who authored which books of the Bible, and oh yeah, the cannon of scripture itself) and it is implied in Genesis 1. God made light (angelic beings) and saw that it was good and seperated the light from the dark) the dark is the only thing mentioned in the creation account that's not mentioned as being good. There are obvious other passages such as 1 Corinthians where Paul tells us that even the devil masqueraded as an angel of light. Also you have passages like Revelation 12 about the devil being CAST DOWN AND the passage in Isaiah 14 which refers to the fall of Lucifer from among the heavenly bodies. Sorry dude. Terrible teaching.
You’re not wrong about Protestants using tradition, it’s unavoidable. BUT you are dead wrong when you insinuate that the doctrine of the Trinity and Divinity of Christ are based in tradition. The Biblical text is LOADED with this theology from start to finish. The first century Christians saw this and they didn’t have church tradition yet did they? Where did they get it? Oh that’s right, the Bible.
Are you saying that Satan and Lucifer are two different entities? Just curious.
Yes, they are.
I've learned much from the lives of the Catholic Saints about how Heaven works and what God truly wants from us and for us. Many of them had supernatural experiences.
Catholics are not Christian ther of satan
What Michael is saying is demons AREN'T fallen angels. Demons are disembodied spirits of the NEPHILIM, the offspring of the fallen angels and women. That's what this video is saying.
Precisely. Fallen angels are fallen angels and demons are disembodied spirits of the Nephilim. Two different entities.
@@TheJMan31 nephilim are half human half angel through
He said there is no scripture that says demons are fallen angels, so where is the scripture that says demons are disembodied spirits of the Nephilim?
@@simonmattesread the scripture. Why else would demons seek to be in bodies again via possession?
In Orthodoxy I believe the answer is demons are both fallen angels and the souls of Nephilim.
If my memory is correct I think that The church fathers who taught that didn't believe that demons came before the fall. Instead they taught what the book of Enoch said (which was) that demons were the Spirits of the nephilum who died in the flood. May he rest in peace, but he's supposed to be a 2nd Temple scholar, and that belief was widespread in the 2nd Temple era.
Also Biblical Theology for the Christian should be about how Jesus and His Apostles understood the Hebrew Scriptures. And this is where the Church Fathers come from for they preserved the thought and hermeneutics of Jesus and the Apostles. And so to attack their hermeneutics is to also attack the hermeneutics of not only Jesus and His Apostles, but also the popular hermeneutics of 2nd Temple Judaism.
Deuteronomy 32:8
Clips like this must be taken as they are. Thought provoking but certainly not a full discourse or explanation of the spiritual realm. I think this is meant to inspire us to read scripture and not spark an online debate
Snippets:
Everyone on the web: DEBATE DEBATE DEBATE!
Demons come from fallen angels children, the Nephilim dying during the flood
So in other words it's been passed on for centuries but now we have no way to verify it with our current text. As if something is missing? 🤔
But he says there isn't a single book in the (CURRENT) Bible 📖 that says demons 👹 are fallen angels. But people act like the Council of Nicaea never happened. Meaning anytime man has his hands in putting together information to disseminate to the masses to shape their psychology that there's a lot of 🍒-picking going on to serve the narratives that these Powers-That-Be. The books 📚 that are in the current Bible we're chosen to be in it @ aforementioned council. And of the books that ARE in the Bible, much of the content was changed by Powers-That-Be cuz it didn't jibe with their agenda.
Many books 📚 like The Book of Enoch & MANY other books were purposely left out that fill in the gaps that cause the current iteration of the Bible less confusing. People act like the Bible was written by God's hands & personally put in the hands of a man, already organized & put together 🙄. It is the INSPIRED Word of God, meaning it had to pass through the filter/interpretational abilities of a fallible human. God is NOT a God of confusion so given how many contradictions & "holes 🕳️/ gaps" there are in the Bible, the only explanation can be they exist due to the manipulation of man.
"Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord which I command you." --- Deut 4:2/ Deut. 12:32
"And if anyone takes words away from this scroll 📜 of prophecy, God will take away that person's portion in the tree of life." Revelation 22:19
If our leaders in The Church 🕌, ALL levels of Govt. from the city, to the state, to the national, to the international level & major corporations (Well, America 🇺🇸 itself is classified as a corporation 😑 --- literally, not a nation as most people are unaware of) such as W@l-M@rt, G👀gle, etc. lie to us about what's in our food, water, air, what the music industry is really about etc., why is it so out of the realm of possibilities for people to believe the Bible we have now has not only been altered due to a factor other than some honest mistranslation, BUT MAINLY DUE TO DELIBERATE OMISSIONS & COMMISSIONS 🤔 . . . 🤨?!
Clearly, I'm not saying the Bible is useless because of man's tampering, but it must be kept in mind that there has been vital information that has been removed & lies inserted when trying to explain phenomenon --- such as 👽🛸🧜🏻♂️🧞🧚 🐉 ---- we can't explain. We must take into account that some of this info may be in the books that were deemed by the Elite throughout the ages "unnecessary" to be explained 🤨. If we haven't even explored 1% of the Earth's oceans 🌊 & scientist say we are able to view an even lesser amount of the entire visible spectrum 🌌, how can any of us --- no matter what letters you have before or after your name; whether you have more degrees than a thermometer 🌡️---- say any fringe paranormal phenomenon can't exist or claim to really know the source? EVERYONE making these claims can't all be lying.
Yeah, no. That's nonsense. Who decides the context? When you say you don't need Church tradition, and that you just do exegesis of the text, you just end up with what I like to call "Sola Hermeneutica". My Hermeneutic is the right one. I decide which Biblical passages provide the "context". Its wrong. Period.
You're taking comments out of line, I'm afraid.
@@peggyjackson4925 What do you mean?
I found sound effects rather tacky and distracting.
I miss this man
Demons are the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim.
Rest in peace, Michael. A righteous scholar among men.
If I understand it correctly, he is not saying that “ demons are not fallen angels “ . He is saying that this fact is not in the bible but Christians believe it as part of the tradition. And yes, we Orthodox believe the same as the rest of Christianity in this matter. And there are different books outside the Christian Old Testament but important part of the Jewish scripture that explain this. Their fall came right after the man was created. There is an amazing video of Jonathan Pageau on those topics. In one of this scriptures is said that Satan is talking to Adam(after fall) and saying how much he hates him because he is the cause of his fall. And Adam wonders why since he never did any harm to Satan. And Satan tells him the story: after God created the man on his image and likeness, all the angles were called to bow in front of the man because was an image of God. Archangel Michael went to all the angelic orders and transferred God’s request so every order will bow to the man. But Lucifer which was the chef of his order refused to bow to a being that is younger and less powerful than him and so did all his order. They rebelled against God’s will, so their were thrown out of the Kingdom. Of course there is more to the story. And this explains why demons hate humans so much!
There is a possibility that could be correct, but I don’t like that it’s too similar to the Islamic view of the origin of iblis and his devils lol
Pure Heresy.
Oh God. Do you have any idea who this brilliant man was!??
Heresy? Worshipping Mary? The Baby Jesus? Calling someone "Father"?
Nah. Zoom out a little.
Let's just stick to whatever everyone has always agreed on throughout church history. That's safe right? I mean surely not everyone could be wrong at once right?
Haha. No.
Evil spirits are the fallen angels in Satan’s original rebellion
The problem is, Heiser himself is guilty of not doing proper exegesis of Scripture. If demons are not fallen angels, then what are they?
So where do they come from?
Literally you do it from Tradition:
Acts 8:29 And the Spirit said to Philip, “Go over and join this chariot.” 30 So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” 31 And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
I watched his complete video about demons on another youtube channel. If you watch it, he basically said that one third of angels or fallen angels rebelled against God on the birth of Messiah. It is written on Revelation His point is that it did not happen before the human's fall. This channel tried to point out his heresy if demons were not fallen angels. He definitely did not mean it if you watched his complete video.
Not from church tradition, but from his opinion lol
I thought that Angela were spirit bodies not physical bodies. So then how can a spirit body impregnate a woman?
You're talking about a text that was written for the body of Christ, compiled & maintained by Church tradition. I decided that I'm going to have faith in the Christ Jesus that's been known for over 2000 years over the interpreted Christ of 500 years. In other words, God's Word over God's word ☦
I can believe that.
But there isn’t a single verse in the Bible that doesn’t say demons are fallen angels either? So what’s your Biblical evidence for them not being the fallen angels???
That’s not exactly true. The Bible never uses the term demon for the demons come after the nephilim. In the original meaning of daemon (Greek) you could use demon for fallen Elohim.
I believe ufos are angels, I think we got it all wrong
Jubilees & Enoch are noncanonical books of heresy which Heiser recommended Prots to read. May God have mercy on his soul.
Even if they're non-canonical that doesn't make them heretical. Zoom out a little, friend.
Aren't they the souls of giants?
No, they are fallen angels
@@LordMazdamundi nope the are the souls of the nephalim aka gaints . Read the book of Enoch
Same difference!
@Carmelus Ike
No!
The book of Enoch is just fan fiction.
The only knowledgs we need about matters pertaining to spirit are contained in the Bible.
Anything else is either heresy, make-believe, or occult.
All I hear is fancy words that look like they'll mislead me
Seriously
DEMONS ARE FALLEN ANGELS!
Demons are disembodied spirits of the Nephilims who themselves are hybrid offsprings of fallen angels (the watchers) and female humans (Genesis 6).
No. Impossible as proven through scripture.
And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day-
Jude 1:6 ESV.
That and the Revelation passage, et al.
His solution is the nephilim being demons creates more problems than it solves.
That scripture isn't speaking of actual angelic beings.
Demons are the souls of the nephilm killed in the flood.
I'll stick to Catholic interpretation. Not everything is in the Bible. We needed extra biblical sources to decide in the canon of scripture.
Yeah I’ll stick with exorcists on this topic
Pray for him.🙏🙏🙏
Pray that he wakes up to this being an idiotic teaching. Demons being angelic is implied in Genesis 1, and stated in Revelation 12, Isaiah 14 and 2 Corinthians 11.
I don't want to make light of his health issues but this is a terrible teaching. So bad that I'm glad I outgrew him.
Thank you Halley, I was watching this thinking but that's simply not true
He just passed. Lord have mercy. 🙏
That's so sad you make comments like this.
Actually your comments are just sad. I can't believe a Christian would say such a thing about an very knowledgeable and wise man of God. I've read his works, listened to these posts, and have never found one thing to be out of line with scripture! It's almost as if this difference in beliefs would make you hope he goes to hell. I do not get that at all. God have mercy bcuz you're very much misunderstanding his words.
To answer his question about EO, what are referred to as demons or unclean spirits in the NT are theorized by some EO scholars to be the spirits of the nephilim.
Its really too bad the unseen world and lord of spirits podcasts never had a chance to interact, i’m sure Michael Heiser would’ve had a great time discussing and interacting with Fr Stephen de Young and Fr Andrew Stephen Damick
Hush
I don't think Dr. Heiser is saying definitively that demons aren't fallen angels, but that it's strange we view it as a doctrine (giving it more credence than simply a belief) when there's little to no biblical evidence for it.
Boring
The faith isn’t an archeological exposition. The saints were given the spirit that inspired the scriptures and were able to derive the faith from them… Tradition isn't just what old men say in a given time, Sacred Tradition is what has been passed down to the Bishops from the Apostoles, Bishops in union with the Roman Pontiff. Also most of the things Heiser thinks is Dogma is not Dogma, A LOT of what Heiser teaches can be found in earlier works that comes from Jesuits, also his major thesis Divine Council is basically Communion of Saints doctrine. The Saitn and Doctors of the church explain our faith Much more than any OT scholar today who merely touches the husk.
…what comes of the promises of Christ to retain the truth until he comes again?
the promises about the holy spirit and truth, promises about the unity of the church in the mind of christ etc.
Does it really matter?
Demons are the disembodied spirits of the nephelim
“Aside from the notion that demons are the fallen angels, the most common alternate explanation for the origin of the demons is that when the Nephilim of Genesis 6 were destroyed in the Flood, their disembodied souls became the demons. While the Bible does not specifically say what happened to the souls of the Nephilim when they were killed, it is unlikely that God would destroy the Nephilim in the Flood only to allow their souls to cause even greater evil as the demons. The most biblically consistent explanation for the origin of the demons is that they are the fallen angels, the angels who rebelled against God with Satan.”
Regardless, the nephilim were _allegedly_ generated by Azazel, one of the fallen angels. So, even if the demons are the disembodied souls of the nephilim, they’re still the progeny of a fallen angel.
Of course, these are speculations. I don’t know where the demons came from. I don’t know if they are fallen angels. Likewise, I do not know if they’re the disembodied souls of the “men of great renown”. I’d be speculating beyond my own understanding if I claimed to have an objective perspective on the issue. I’m asking this sincerely… under what authority do you make the claim that demons are *NOT* the fallen angels?
My big issue with this is that it supposes that God created something evil, or that something came into being without being created by God or one of His creations.
There is none beside me.
I am the Lord, and there is none else.
I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the Lord do all these things” (Isaiah 45:6-7, KJV 1900).
@@peggyjackson4925 That's just a translation that fails to capture the meaning of the word. Three lines in a row create a distinction between one idea and its opposite:
I am God; the opposite of God, there isn't.
I create light; the opposite of light, I create.
I create peace... And the opposite of peace, I create.
Is there opposite of "evil", "peace"? No, the opposite of evil is goodness. But is the opposite of peace *some kind of* evil? Yeah. It makes fine sense as a mistake that a person could reasonably make.
But in a shorter response: "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all."
Is this based off the Hebrew Old Testament or the Greek?
Just because it's not mentioned in the bible doesn't meant it doesn't exist
I looked up my Eastern Orthodox sources, and recalled PSEUDO-Denys the Aeropagite and John of Damascus for their writings on Satan, angels and demons. And also, the Greeks had their daemons and the Arabs and Persians had the their djinn. The taxonomy, origins, and rankings of the personified energies are not hard to find, both pre and post Incarnation.
Demons are our fears manifest…
The line of Seth appointed down through Noah called the sons of God because Adam was son of God
Ben Elohim
Never trust this guy. 35 years a believer and I'm just seeing him pop up in the last year???
I’ve listened to a lot of his stuff and he is wrong on a lot of doctrine. Just because he has glasses and a phd doesn’t mean anything
Wow! What's he so wrong about? And I'd say 30. Yr scholar of the bible has nothing to do with his title and glasses. Have a teachable spirit!!
@@peggyjackson4925 okay 👌
Why add this stupid clicking only to Dr. Heiser's videos?
Because its in the book of Enoch from the oldest Christian bible in the world in Ethiopia. That's why
Church Tradition is the precise context of the Biblical texts.
Memory eternal ☦️☦️☦️
Facts
In the beginning, God created everything good because God, in His holiness, cannot and would not create something sinful. Satan, who was once the angel Lucifer, rebelled against God and fell from heaven (Isaiah 14; Ezekiel 28), and one third of the angelic host joined his insurrection against HOLY GOD (Revelation 12:3-4,9). There is no doubt these fallen angels are now known as the demons!
Look at all these comments, arguments and counter-arguments. Theology must be the most difficult subject in academia. If only we had clear scripture on this subject.
This is what happens when one wants to CONSTRUCT a “biblical theology.” The Church precedes the Bible, and is the pillar and ground of Truth. Sola scriptura is not a biblical position itself. Heiser is starting from a faulty premise.
Angels who turned away from God are cast out of heaven..therefore they fall towards earth to make our lives miserable.....
I dont disagree that the Bible doesn’t say, in one verse, they are the same.
But, the Bible says in Mark 3:22,23 that Jesus was casting out demons and Jesus says, that "Satan is casting out Satan", identifying a likeness.
22 "And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, “He has Beelzebub,” and, 'By the ruler of the demons He casts out demons.' 23 So He called them to Himself and said to them in parables: 'How can Satan cast out Satan?' 24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand."'
Then in Rev. 12:9, "9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."
Identifying to us that those, like the Devil, angels that have been cast out, are demons.
Therefore, the exegesis, or exposistion of the text, seemingly identify's these as the same. I believe, that is why it was taught as doctrine.
He needs to read the book of Enoch a book the book that got taken out of the Bible he talks all about the fallen angels and the three 3⃣ relams it tell us about ghosts and souls and everything it's very interesting
It's not based on a single verse. It has been passed down from the early Church Fathers. Does he think he knows better than the disciples of those who walked with Christ?
The Bible is church tradition. Not something a lot of sola scriptura believers like to hear but the Bible was made canonical by the church as the church came together and deemed these texts are scripture and these are not.
So what are you saying
At the end of the day, our worries is to cast demons out.
And where may i ask does this guy get his authority to question authentic tradition and to tell us that oral tradition is not as important as written tradition?
What scripture were the first christians using if the books of the new testament were either not written yet or the new testament was was even selected and compiled.
Fact is oral tradition and the Church gave us the bible as we have it today.
Jude 1:6, 2nd Peter 2:4 look those up buddy. And if that doesn't work for you then where did Demons come from huh
Was this an April fool's joke?