Jordan, I would like to congratulate you once again as I did before in your recent videos, for not using clickbait titles or childish thumbnails. You were able to use a very good title and to include a bit of mystery as well by not divulging everything in your title. I totally respect this approach Jordan You are doing a fantastic job by listening and taking on board constructive feedback from those of us who value your work I wish you all the best!
Couple of suggestions Jordan, you can buy mc4 bungs that you can insert on the optimisers instead of taping them, for your cable entries you should always avoid piercing the felt just slide them up to the nearest overlap which easy to find, also cable entries on tiles i always a small piece of flexi conduit to protect from abbraision on tiles. also lining up your panels its easier to start at the bottom fit your first then string line across the bottom to the other side measuring up from bottom of roof. just fit another length of rail the far end to wrap string around then all panels will be straight. Then your top ones will be easier to fit also taking the weight from bottom panel while you get a couple of mid clamps to use as spacers. remove once clamped. Thought i would share some of my experience with you as your new to solar.. Keep up the good work guys
If you want to keep the efficiency of the panels when it's snowing or ice, moisture, etc. Run trace wire around the perimeter of all the panels and then put the trace wire on a timer SL to frost state at 3⁰c
Eddie currents are induced when the EM field changes which only happens when your DC circuit is first powered or when the current draw changes so it should be mostly fine in that regard.
@@jonnyf6932 Eddy currents are induced in conductors full stop, not just ferrous metals - drop a magnet down inside copper pipe if you want quick evidence.
@@intercity125 Faraday would of course agree and quite right to point that out as it’s a fundamental law. I think what he was trying to avoid was heat induction into the gland caused by Eddie currents where the conductors are separated. I should be more careful when commenting not to make simple statements that might be inaccurate or misleading in isolation of the context.
@@davidw460 No eddy currents assuming steady state dc, the magnetic field has to vary to induce currents into any electrically conductive material, only an issue with ac.
Yes bird protection is a must. I learned the hard way, However aesthetics aside, I prefer mesh as it allows more air flow to keep the panels from getting so warm in the summer and losing performance.
They allow plenty of space for airflow still as there is a gap of aground 20mm above and below - big enough for plenty of air but small enough to block pigeons
@@artisanelectrics 20mm is still a significant reduction in airflow compared to a mesh, on a hot day you need a lot of airflow to maintain performance. They should cut a nice hexagon/square grid pattern into those panels and it would improve them significantly whilst still removing potential nesting issues and improve the aesthetics.
@@TheGalifrey The bird protection that is black and looks like bristles looks pretty much as good as the solar skirts IMO, which although neat have a bit of a heavy stuck-on look.
Don't understand the need for a skirt. We have our whole roof pretty much covered with NO skirt, have plenty of wood pigeons and doves around but they don't go under our panels ... At least not in the five years we've lived here. If any wood pigeons managed to get under our panels they'd probably get stuck they are so fat! 🤣 A MUCH bigger issue is keeping pigeons away from tops of the panels as their crap takes ages to be washed off by even heavy rainfall.
Had an emergency callout a few weeks back here in Norway. Was a frosty -26C. Real glad I got some new winter clothes from the company that actually keeps me warm this year :P Last year was misery.
I'm so glad you address the induction loop problem, explain it and also show the solution. It's the #1 cause of ElectroMagnetic Interference caused by solar installations. So you're not only preventing the damage caused by the induction currents of lightning strikes but also prevent a lot of other problems most people don't even know they have. A lot of optimizers actually cause a lot of EMI and if you would have made an induction loop you basically create a medium wave jammer. By putting positive and negative wiring next to each other you minimize this effect although in my opinion they should be in a metal conduit which is properly bonded to the protective earth. Even though solar panels generate DC, the switching electronics in the main inverter and power optimizers make it from a high frequency perspective more or less a radio transmitter if not proper minimizing unwanted inductive and capacitive properties.
Have a look at a rubber tile replacement called Hook stop no need for messy tile cutting and any flex on the rail is absorbed by the rubber so no tile cracks!
Great presentation. Small note that push in blind grommets are removable without the use of key or a tool !! With a 20mm hole giving possible access to an inquiring finger.
22:56 Since Eddy currents are the result of a changing magnetic field, which in turn can be the result of a changing current in a wire, they are mostly a concern in AC systems. For DC it would mean that you would need to have rapidly changing sun-power, which isn’t a thing (except if you live close to a windmill or moving trees, I guess … but even then it’s not as fast as 50Hz mains frequency current-change happens to be). However: If the inverter communication to the optimizers happens via powerline, then yes, there might be Eddy currents, even if they are weak, but it might mess up the communication. So … it depends 😅 But you would definitely not get these constant Eddy currents as you would have in a high load AC system, I guess and also in your case you plan to pass the respective in/out for negative and positive conductor through separate brass rings, which means, that the in/out currents are the same and of the opposite orientation, whereby the magnetic fields cancel out each other :)
Also not an issue as the metal bits the wire goes thru are not ferromagnetic. Induction heating problems come when groupings of AC wires are all the same phase and thus have the same magnetic field, which in turn magnetizes the metal bits *that completely surround each grouping of wires* alternately on each half cycle. The hysteresis losses (each alternate magnetization takes energy to reorient the magnetic domains in the steel or ductile iron that such bits are made of and this reorientation happens each half cycle) are what cause the heating problems.
My understanding is if power is direct current you don’t get the magnetic field you’d get from an AC 50Hz supply. If I’m wrong feel free to correct me 🥲 Great videos guys, very helpful
Ha ha... we do everything The Artisan Way. Really! Like that ending🤪. Reminds me of when you did that 'Woodworking With Mother' video on how to hack a timber framed house about. 🤣
The solid metal may prevent solar panels from cooling properly they may run 10 - 20°C hotter. The 10°C coller panel results in 5% more power and 1% less they degrade every year. I would measure if in summer they operate below 50°C is fine, over 70°C is alarming. I would prefer the same metal being perforated with 4mm holes for example. I saw great video latelly on this topic from TechIngredients YT channel about boosting PV efficieny with better ventilation of panels.
Here in Sweden two students started a company and targeted supermarkets for solar panels... And a few years past, they have a very successful company ! 🔥🔥🔥
Strictly it both is and isn't eddy currents. More important is "Is the bush or enclosure ferromagnetic" e.g. steel. NOT "is it metal" With AC, (and with a ferromagnetic bush or enclosure), you will get an alternating magnetic field - it is like putting a single turn choke inline! You should not get those fields with brass (nonmagnetic) bush. Because brass is nonmagnetic, there is no more magnetic field induced than in air or plastic, so in turn, no eddy currents. An alternating field in the steel would cause eddy currents within the steel (like the secondary of a transformer, but shorted out) and so heat it up (why transformer cores are laminated- it stops the internal eddy currents). With DC, there would be a field (and so secondary eddy currents) induced only for microseconds when you switch on or off an isolator, otherwise nothing with steady or slowly changing DC.
Hi Jordan, great video mate! When installing those types of roof hooks from the renusol range, you can buy what’s called and Eric tile (solar slate plate) which the roof hook sits in, it replaces a tile that you take out to fit the roof hook. Saves a lot of time.
What about the airflow under the panels when you add the solar skirt? Keeping the panels cool (especially in summer) is important for efficiency and longevity.
Came here to say this! Removing heat from the panels is extremely important. Your panel specs will contain information about temperature coefficient - panels can lose even 0.5% for every degree above 25C. I have a wire mesh around mines and honestly it doesn't look that bad - definitely not worth losing 1-2kWh on a hot, summer day.
@@JakubKonecki I'd love to see a solar panel / water heater combination. Using the thermal energy of a solar panel to heat up water by keeping a circulation going through the lot.
Pigeons... I learned a trick Not all Pigeons are the same. Wood Pigeons (White Necks) won't go under the panels. They nest in Bushes and Trees. Rock Pigeons (Feral Pigeons - Green Purple Necks) are hole seekers. It's these Pigeons that will go under your panels, nesting, breeding, dying... they're very territorial and will absolutely make a mess. Type you see in the City. We have Wood Pigeons around us, they'll sit on the roof, walk about... but never go under them. This knowledge passed on to me by an ornithologist saved me thousands. If you're unsure... walk about your area and see other neighbours panels. If theirs is clear.... so will yours.
Avoid eddy current concerns (which John Ward demonstrates are irrelevant anyway) by not using brass bushing between plastic enclosures and plastic trunking. Stuffing glands are fine if you must use something. As far as I know it's the nature of AC that creates eddy currents; they don't occur on DC.
Hi guys. Sparky from Australia here. I can't believe the prices you quotes for solar over there. Here we work on around $1000 aud per kw for an entry level.system. Maybe around $1200aud per kw for mid range. Max around $1400aud per kw for a full on enphase micro inverter system. I have a Solar Edge 6.6kw system. 22 SE panels with DC optimisers and a 5kw SE inverter. Total was a touch under $10Kaud before govt incentives. My cost was just over $7000aud.
You put so many parts on the wall, such as Modbus modules an separator switches and so on. Wouldn't it be cleaner, safer and cheaper to mount all these parts into a cabinet? You can build and test that cabinet in a nice warm workshop. Better for your health as well.
great video as always. A question from a German PV owner. As you really go above and beyond for great looks (e.g. the skirting against birds). Why don't you use black anodised rails? I find the silver poking out between the all black panels at bit... distracting when the sun glints off it between the panels)
@@lewis94uk Ok. Just wondering because the pidgeon protection they use will also be more dear than chicken wire... and the total cost of the rails is pretty small compared to the rest.
You can get PVC Bush and couplings which alleviate and Eddy current worries. Obviously that only applies if your containment is all PVC not steel. The IET does have an article on Eddy currents in non ferrous materials. I will admit I haven’t read it fully yet. It’s out there on the Gargle.
The pigeon solid flaps will prevent heat escape from the panels - resulting in poorer performance from the panels - lower output the hotter the panels - yes I know might not be an issue with uk weather!! Need to find space for another 2 panels to compensate!! Your finishing of the brackets through the tiles and sealing is one of the worse I've seen so far. You have gone for a 'make a large' hole through the tile rather than cutting a grove on the back of the tile and seal (prevent direct tile / bracket contact). Needs better bracket to roof installation. So a 1.5 star for bracket installation.
Nicely done. But I have some remarks. Why use optimizers? They will break after 6 years (after the warranty period of 5 years?). Replacing them is very costly due to opening up the panels on the roof. I would not have used them at all when there is no shadow. In addition, I did not see any grounding of the panels (including eloxyide piercing tabs). Does the UK have any laws about proper grounding? Why did you not use the PE connectors on the overvoltage protection devices? Also, please do use heat shink tube with a melting insert. Not the cheap stuff as you have shown. Anyway nice video despite some shortcomings.
@@Stugadget I read the following on reddit "We're seeing about a 20x higher failure rate on our P300/P320 optimizers compared to our IQ7/IQ7+. We have installed several thousand optimizers and about 2,000 IQ-micros, and in those ~2,000 IQs, we have had one failure. One. Our failure rate on SolarEdge optimizers is about 1 in 50." Perhaps you can google it?
@@Mr1Spring I think the warranty period on SolarEdge optimisers is 25 years. I believe I've heard that we do not have grounding laws and that that is unusual. I feel like there may be some reasoning for it, possibly lightning.
@@RichardABW That would be strange, during our MCS assessment, the assessor asked what reading i got between the inverter and rails. I always wire an earth loop, take a leg to the first rail, link between rails and then a leg back to the inverter. One leg connects directly to the inverter, the other is mounted suitably close so that a continuity test is easy. Im not sure on whether this is a requirement by MCS or a regulation or best practice or manufacturer installation instruction ???
As a Hungarian electrician, I was wondering why you had to drill two more holes on the other side of the DC isolators rather than flipping the inside isolator upside down?
Could I ask you Jordan, why did you mount the hooks on battens rather than directly on the trusses? They looked high , or is it a different style for the flat tiles?
He did attach them to the trusses/joists, he just used a packing piece to raise the bracket to match the depth/height of the tiles, it mentions this in the Renusol guides, which is the brand of mounting system they use.
Can’t wait to see the Libbi install! We’re moving in to a house with solar and want to add Eddi and Libbi plus extra solar PV when we’re in. Would love for you guys to quote but based Worcestershire 😢
I hate being a critque but I cringed when you got out the solar skirt. The panels need good air flow to make sure you get the best output from the panels and more importantly less yearly degradation from excessive heatwave temperatures. Panels work best and live longer when they are running cold, indeed some are now fitting panels with fans in them and even water cooling systems.
Instead of drilling more holes in the back box, for the isolator switch, and plugging the wrong ones, why did you just not undo the switch from what looked like a DIN rail in the housing and turn it round - the back box looked symmetrical?
Solar panels work better when cooler, are you not worried that the solar skirts will restrict airflow to the underside of the panels? the mesh allows good air flow. :)
I had one blow off in the gales last year damaged another one ,not covered by the special panel insurance i took out because it was an act of god,any excuse eh?
I may have missed battery install of the off grid, but a lot of inverters need a grid supply for the inverter to work. Or can you do it so that even these inverters will work if power goes to the grid , therefore then giving full off grid just of battery. Im not a fan of bird barrier but that trim does set it, you have converted me, from the norm look and so better than that mesh bird barrier. good job lads
Tesla is one of the few ‘main brands’ that will allow use on a complete power outage. There may be other brands out there but at the moment we’d recommend a Tesla Powerwall if this is what you are after.
Eddy currents : You will ONLY have eddy currents from a CHANGING magnetic field!! ( ie electromagnetic magnetic induction from a time varying magnetic field) Since you are working with DC - there is no changing magnetic field therefore there cannot be any induced (eddy) currents.
Bloody good job that customer has such a humungous garage as there seemed to be a lot of kit/complexity in there, even without his batteries arriving. Might sound stupid but is there a correct order to starting up/shutting down all of that stuff?
about your question of eddy currents, quick google and found this may help in the future. Does DC cause eddy current? Image result for do eddy currents happen in dc Electromagnetic induction is the reason behind eddy current. It will only occur if there is change in magnetic flux. In ac , the current is ever changing but dc , current is constant. So no emf is induced in the metal piece thus no current.
a sparrow might be able to get in that gap between the tile and the skirt...serious. I had birds in our attic and it wasnt until i started to plug the really small gaps that they finally stpped coming in. At least 50 percent of their size is just air and feathers!
15:30 just one grape... the "V" connection should be made on the SPD itself rather than in the terminals... through my 10 years testing systems, this proved to be the best solution often the only one really working and protecting anything ! i know that the manufacturers often include schematic of connection and yes the SPD is parallel to the feed but that one is just not correct.
Out of interest, would you have installed the SPD in the loft, much closer to the solar panels and their mounting rails? Surely mounting the SPD in the garage is inviting trouble from overvoltages causing damage to the insulation of the DC cabling from the panels down to the first isolator, or to the isolator itself?
@@protectiongeek the rule to follow is to install the SPD as close to ground as possible, in reality it doesnt matter much as long as the ground connection is solid. this is because the internal resistivity of the hardware is higher than the straight to ground connection so in case of direct lightning hit, the cartridge blows and ground resistivity becomes almost zero so its the only way for the energy to travel to. when we test datacenters or tecelom systems, the SPD is at the mains which tends to be the first in line component, as far from what we want to protect as possible. i know what you want to say, but the cables used in solar applications are designed for 1000+volts so this is no problem, the overvoltage is then safely grounded before it hits the inverter which is good, either way works. one more thing i will say that the SPD is present to mainly save the inverter, which is the most expensive device and the grid side, if you get direct lightning hit to the panels, you can kiss them goodbye, the diodes burn in every case.then again if you get hit by lightning you have done something wrong
Aren't solar panels really sensitive to temperature though? Less on an issue in the UK I guess but you would want a nice perforated grill if you ask me.
Hi, I don't believe there will be eddy currents on DC, but also there would not be any on AC because you said you has brass bushings which are non-ferrous.
Solar skirts look nice but they will hurt solar performance on the hottest days as you starve the back of air flow and they hotter they get the worse they perform.
I really like the look of those skirts my question is ventilation under the panels specially in full sun on a hot day could they potentially reduce efficiency of the panel if there getting so hot ?
On such a small array it would have no effect on thermal build up or loss of efficiency, would be concerned more about birds nesting and biting through the cables, fault finding takes a while and might have to pull up all the panels!
It takes 10000 kw hours of electricity to extract the silicon from sand (silicon dioxide ) to make 1 kwp of solar panel. The process is to mix the sand with charcoal and heat it in an electric arc furness to 2000 degrees the result of that is 98 percent pure silicon and carbon monoxide .The process is then repeated to obtain the pure silicon needed for the solar panels.
from what I understand isn't it prohibited by inverter manufacturers to mix panels of different orientations? like in this sense you created one string comprised of panels on 2 different orientations (east and west)
That looks afantastic job, but no doubt very expensive. I can't help but wonder how many years of mains electricity you could have paid for with the same amount of money.
Become a channel member to watch Another crazy week - Fixing problems and Artisan Defrosting 🧊- czcams.com/video/9Ri9X0QkbZ4/video.html
Check out Solar Limpets they are roof hooks that eliminate the need to cut tiles :)
Thanks Jordan. A shame that you didn't record that part. 😉
This must cost a fortune
Jordan, I would like to congratulate you once again as I did before in your recent videos, for not using clickbait titles or childish thumbnails.
You were able to use a very good title and to include a bit of mystery as well by not divulging everything in your title.
I totally respect this approach Jordan
You are doing a fantastic job by listening and taking on board constructive feedback from those of us who value your work
I wish you all the best!
OPEN MOUTH SYNDROME
Couple of suggestions Jordan, you can buy mc4 bungs that you can insert on the optimisers instead of taping them, for your cable entries you should always avoid piercing the felt just slide them up to the nearest overlap which easy to find, also cable entries on tiles i always a small piece of flexi conduit to protect from abbraision on tiles. also lining up your panels its easier to start at the bottom fit your first then string line across the bottom to the other side measuring up from bottom of roof. just fit another length of rail the far end to wrap string around then all panels will be straight. Then your top ones will be easier to fit also taking the weight from bottom panel while you get a couple of mid clamps to use as spacers. remove once clamped.
Thought i would share some of my experience with you as your new to solar..
Keep up the good work guys
If you want to keep the efficiency of the panels when it's snowing or ice, moisture, etc. Run trace wire around the perimeter of all the panels and then put the trace wire on a timer SL to frost state at 3⁰c
Eddie currents are induced when the EM field changes which only happens when your DC circuit is first powered or when the current draw changes so it should be mostly fine in that regard.
Also can’t be induced in brass as only ferrous metals will be affected.
@@jonnyf6932 Eddy currents are induced in conductors full stop, not just ferrous metals - drop a magnet down inside copper pipe if you want quick evidence.
@@intercity125 Faraday would of course agree and quite right to point that out as it’s a fundamental law. I think what he was trying to avoid was heat induction into the gland caused by Eddie currents where the conductors are separated. I should be more careful when commenting not to make simple statements that might be inaccurate or misleading in isolation of the context.
BS7671 regs prohibiting single conductor entry are for ferrous metal and AC, iirc :)
@@davidw460 No eddy currents assuming steady state dc, the magnetic field has to vary to induce currents into any electrically conductive material, only an issue with ac.
Yes bird protection is a must. I learned the hard way, However aesthetics aside, I prefer mesh as it allows more air flow to keep the panels from getting so warm in the summer and losing performance.
Yes, no airflow is approximately 10% less yield. Going to be an oven under the panels in the summer.
They allow plenty of space for airflow still as there is a gap of aground 20mm above and below - big enough for plenty of air but small enough to block pigeons
@@artisanelectrics 20mm is still a significant reduction in airflow compared to a mesh, on a hot day you need a lot of airflow to maintain performance. They should cut a nice hexagon/square grid pattern into those panels and it would improve them significantly whilst still removing potential nesting issues and improve the aesthetics.
@@TheGalifrey The bird protection that is black and looks like bristles looks pretty much as good as the solar skirts IMO, which although neat have a bit of a heavy stuck-on look.
Don't understand the need for a skirt. We have our whole roof pretty much covered with NO skirt, have plenty of wood pigeons and doves around but they don't go under our panels ... At least not in the five years we've lived here.
If any wood pigeons managed to get under our panels they'd probably get stuck they are so fat! 🤣
A MUCH bigger issue is keeping pigeons away from tops of the panels as their crap takes ages to be washed off by even heavy rainfall.
Had an emergency callout a few weeks back here in Norway. Was a frosty -26C. Real glad I got some new winter clothes from the company that actually keeps me warm this year :P Last year was misery.
These installs are virtually ASMR videos now. I'm not even a spark but damn, so so pleasing and we can all learn something from this! Great work guys!
I'm so glad you address the induction loop problem, explain it and also show the solution. It's the #1 cause of ElectroMagnetic Interference caused by solar installations. So you're not only preventing the damage caused by the induction currents of lightning strikes but also prevent a lot of other problems most people don't even know they have. A lot of optimizers actually cause a lot of EMI and if you would have made an induction loop you basically create a medium wave jammer. By putting positive and negative wiring next to each other you minimize this effect although in my opinion they should be in a metal conduit which is properly bonded to the protective earth.
Even though solar panels generate DC, the switching electronics in the main inverter and power optimizers make it from a high frequency perspective more or less a radio transmitter if not proper minimizing unwanted inductive and capacitive properties.
If you guys need to avoid induction loops, try leap-frogging the optimizers. Saves some wire management as well.
Have a look at a rubber tile replacement called Hook stop no need for messy tile cutting and any flex on the rail is absorbed by the rubber so no tile cracks!
Great presentation. Small note that push in blind grommets are removable without the use of key or a tool !! With a 20mm hole giving possible access to an inquiring finger.
🤔you would have to be a tool to do that though 😀
@@kevinpickett7249 children often don't know the difference tool or not. 🙂
22:56 Since Eddy currents are the result of a changing magnetic field, which in turn can be the result of a changing current in a wire, they are mostly a concern in AC systems.
For DC it would mean that you would need to have rapidly changing sun-power, which isn’t a thing (except if you live close to a windmill or moving trees, I guess … but even then it’s not as fast as 50Hz mains frequency current-change happens to be).
However: If the inverter communication to the optimizers happens via powerline, then yes, there might be Eddy currents, even if they are weak, but it might mess up the communication.
So … it depends 😅
But you would definitely not get these constant Eddy currents as you would have in a high load AC system, I guess and also in your case you plan to pass the respective in/out for negative and positive conductor through separate brass rings, which means, that the in/out currents are the same and of the opposite orientation, whereby the magnetic fields cancel out each other :)
Generally Eddie currents are not an issue with DC.
Also not an issue as the metal bits the wire goes thru are not ferromagnetic. Induction heating problems come when groupings of AC wires are all the same phase and thus have the same magnetic field, which in turn magnetizes the metal bits *that completely surround each grouping of wires* alternately on each half cycle. The hysteresis losses (each alternate magnetization takes energy to reorient the magnetic domains in the steel or ductile iron that such bits are made of and this reorientation happens each half cycle) are what cause the heating problems.
My understanding is if power is direct current you don’t get the magnetic field you’d get from an AC 50Hz supply.
If I’m wrong feel free to correct me 🥲
Great videos guys, very helpful
Yep, it’s the changing magnetic field that will induce eddy currents, although ripple on the DC will cause them, but hopefully very limited.
It’s great to see how far the company & the production have progressed.
Ending of the video. Top notch 👌
Ha ha... we do everything The Artisan Way. Really!
Like that ending🤪.
Reminds me of when you did that 'Woodworking With Mother' video on how to hack a timber framed house about. 🤣
The solid metal may prevent solar panels from cooling properly they may run 10 - 20°C hotter. The 10°C coller panel results in 5% more power and 1% less they degrade every year. I would measure if in summer they operate below 50°C is fine, over 70°C is alarming.
I would prefer the same metal being perforated with 4mm holes for example. I saw great video latelly on this topic from TechIngredients YT channel about boosting PV efficieny with better ventilation of panels.
DC shouldn’t cause eddy currents, that’s due to (rapidly) changing currents in the cables.
True it's due to a changing magnetic field induced by an alternating current
Here in Sweden two students started a company and targeted supermarkets for solar panels... And a few years past, they have a very successful company ! 🔥🔥🔥
As always love you all
Top jobs you do ❤❤❤❤
Regardless of AC or DC 100s of amps are required for thermal effects from eddy currents .
Beat me to it. 100%. Need serious current flow before worrying about effects of eddy currents
Strictly it both is and isn't eddy currents. More important is "Is the bush or enclosure ferromagnetic" e.g. steel. NOT "is it metal"
With AC, (and with a ferromagnetic bush or enclosure), you will get an alternating magnetic field - it is like putting a single turn choke inline!
You should not get those fields with brass (nonmagnetic) bush. Because brass is nonmagnetic, there is no more magnetic field induced than in air or plastic, so in turn, no eddy currents.
An alternating field in the steel would cause eddy currents within the steel (like the secondary of a transformer, but shorted out) and so heat it up (why transformer cores are laminated- it stops the internal eddy currents).
With DC, there would be a field (and so secondary eddy currents) induced only for microseconds when you switch on or off an isolator, otherwise nothing with steady or slowly changing DC.
Hi Jordan, great video mate! When installing those types of roof hooks from the renusol range, you can buy what’s called and Eric tile (solar slate plate) which the roof hook sits in, it replaces a tile that you take out to fit the roof hook. Saves a lot of time.
that is good point,
What about the airflow under the panels when you add the solar skirt? Keeping the panels cool (especially in summer) is important for efficiency and longevity.
good point but I dont think its fully sealed, the wind can get through
Came here to say this! Removing heat from the panels is extremely important. Your panel specs will contain information about temperature coefficient - panels can lose even 0.5% for every degree above 25C. I have a wire mesh around mines and honestly it doesn't look that bad - definitely not worth losing 1-2kWh on a hot, summer day.
@@JakubKonecki it's ok they just won't tell the customer 😂
Chicken wire all the way. You do get panels that are inbuilt to the roof so likely ok…. Hopefully the skirt makers do insurance….
@@JakubKonecki I'd love to see a solar panel / water heater combination. Using the thermal energy of a solar panel to heat up water by keeping a circulation going through the lot.
Would imagine the solar skirt would be better than the usual mesh for reducing the dynamic load too with wind gusts etc.
Pigeons... I learned a trick
Not all Pigeons are the same. Wood Pigeons (White Necks) won't go under the panels. They nest in Bushes and Trees.
Rock Pigeons (Feral Pigeons - Green Purple Necks) are hole seekers. It's these Pigeons that will go under your panels, nesting, breeding, dying... they're very territorial and will absolutely make a mess. Type you see in the City.
We have Wood Pigeons around us, they'll sit on the roof, walk about... but never go under them. This knowledge passed on to me by an ornithologist saved me thousands.
If you're unsure... walk about your area and see other neighbours panels. If theirs is clear.... so will yours.
Actual diagrams would be a nice bonus on these great videos!
Jesus I always say up there for thinking down there for dancing with my grandad, did not expect to hear it "in the wild"
Induction loop every day is a school day
no, you need a current variation (AC) in the wires to get eddy currents - see the wikipedia article for more information
Good. Fast. Cheap. Pick any two.
Just finished watching Cory's video about solar panels now watching this one 😂
Avoid eddy current concerns (which John Ward demonstrates are irrelevant anyway) by not using brass bushing between plastic enclosures and plastic trunking. Stuffing glands are fine if you must use something. As far as I know it's the nature of AC that creates eddy currents; they don't occur on DC.
Eddy currents is only an issue with ac and metallic enclosures. If the brass bushes are in plastic there is nowhere for the eddy currents to flow.
Hi guys. Sparky from Australia here. I can't believe the prices you quotes for solar over there. Here we work on around $1000 aud per kw for an entry level.system. Maybe around $1200aud per kw for mid range. Max around $1400aud per kw for a full on enphase micro inverter system. I have a Solar Edge 6.6kw system. 22 SE panels with DC optimisers and a 5kw SE inverter. Total was a touch under $10Kaud before govt incentives. My cost was just over $7000aud.
It's about 2500 euros a kw in Ireland before any subsidies. And 1000 a kw for batteries. A basic 2.4kw system would be 7 to 8 thousand euros.
Love the quality of your work!
You put so many parts on the wall, such as Modbus modules an separator switches and so on. Wouldn't it be cleaner, safer and cheaper to mount all these parts into a cabinet? You can build and test that cabinet in a nice warm workshop. Better for your health as well.
It's oscillation of magnetic fields that create eddie currents
You could go trough the overlap in the plastic in stead of poking a hole in the guys under roofing
There is no Eddy Curent in DC Systems
Beautiful job as always.. keep going artisans.. all the best
great video as always. A question from a German PV owner. As you really go above and beyond for great looks (e.g. the skirting against birds).
Why don't you use black anodised rails? I find the silver poking out between the all black panels at bit... distracting when the sun glints off it between the panels)
They cost 25% more which most people will just not pay for
@@lewis94uk Ok. Just wondering because the pidgeon protection they use will also be more dear than chicken wire... and the total cost of the rails is pretty small compared to the rest.
@@torstenpierro9279 yeah one of those things probably cost the manufacturer nothing really more to do but they sell it high as a premium product.
@@lewis94uk I think this customer would have paid!
Loved the video! Couldn’t you have just taken the inside of the isolator from dim rail and turn it around instead of drilling holes?
Din rail .
Good and fast approach to work I appreciate
Great video. Im looking to do the same, but have always shide away from doing it myself. Not anymore.
No problem with eddy currents. Your conductors aren’t separated by ferromagnetic material..plastic trunking and plastic enclosure..
😂 that ending…
Should see how Australia do their installs.
Eddy currents shouldn't be an issue at all. I don't think you get a large and fast enough current swing via your Solar Panels.
You can get PVC Bush and couplings which alleviate and Eddy current worries. Obviously that only applies if your containment is all PVC not steel. The IET does have an article on Eddy currents in non ferrous materials. I will admit I haven’t read it fully yet. It’s out there on the Gargle.
The pigeon solid flaps will prevent heat escape from the panels - resulting in poorer performance from the panels - lower output the hotter the panels - yes I know might not be an issue with uk weather!! Need to find space for another 2 panels to compensate!!
Your finishing of the brackets through the tiles and sealing is one of the worse I've seen so far. You have gone for a 'make a large' hole through the tile rather than cutting a grove on the back of the tile and seal (prevent direct tile / bracket contact). Needs better bracket to roof installation. So a 1.5 star for bracket installation.
Nicely done. But I have some remarks.
Why use optimizers? They will break after 6 years (after the warranty period of 5 years?). Replacing them is very costly due to opening up the panels on the roof. I would not have used them at all when there is no shadow.
In addition, I did not see any grounding of the panels (including eloxyide piercing tabs). Does the UK have any laws about proper grounding?
Why did you not use the PE connectors on the overvoltage protection devices?
Also, please do use heat shink tube with a melting insert. Not the cheap stuff as you have shown.
Anyway nice video despite some shortcomings.
Where is your evidence that they break after 6 years ?
@@Stugadget I read the following on reddit "We're seeing about a 20x higher failure rate on our P300/P320 optimizers compared to our IQ7/IQ7+. We have installed several thousand optimizers and about 2,000 IQ-micros, and in those ~2,000 IQs, we have had one failure. One. Our failure rate on SolarEdge optimizers is about 1 in 50."
Perhaps you can google it?
@@Mr1Spring I think the warranty period on SolarEdge optimisers is 25 years. I believe I've heard that we do not have grounding laws and that that is unusual. I feel like there may be some reasoning for it, possibly lightning.
@@RichardABW That would be strange, during our MCS assessment, the assessor asked what reading i got between the inverter and rails. I always wire an earth loop, take a leg to the first rail, link between rails and then a leg back to the inverter. One leg connects directly to the inverter, the other is mounted suitably close so that a continuity test is easy. Im not sure on whether this is a requirement by MCS or a regulation or best practice or manufacturer installation instruction ???
As a Hungarian electrician, I was wondering why you had to drill two more holes on the other side of the DC isolators rather than flipping the inside isolator upside down?
I was looking forward to the end of the vid until I got to the end of the vid!
Going completely off-grid is the way forward.
See our monster off grid system and 160kva benny at our customers build.. see our channel.
Good solar job thou lads artistan electrical 🤓😎
I don't think this setup is enough to be off grid. Would be good to see the numbers.
Really interesting and very impressive. Thanks!
4:53 Did the bricklayer get bored of straight lines after building the house? 😂 Fair player to them, must have taken some effort to build that wall.
fantastic video gents top work great workmanship and team work 👍
Could I ask you Jordan, why did you mount the hooks on battens rather than directly on the trusses? They looked high , or is it a different style for the flat tiles?
I thought he screwed directly into the trusses. He called them joists when he did it.
He did attach them to the trusses/joists, he just used a packing piece to raise the bracket to match the depth/height of the tiles, it mentions this in the Renusol guides, which is the brand of mounting system they use.
Eddie currents only happen on ferromagnetic enclosures, Brass isn't magnetic so as far as i'm aware there wouldn't be an issue.
Can’t wait to see the Libbi install! We’re moving in to a house with solar and want to add Eddi and Libbi plus extra solar PV when we’re in. Would love for you guys to quote but based Worcestershire 😢
@Matt Walton - I'm sure they'll be happy to charge you mileage on top of their quotation!! ;-)
I hate being a critque but I cringed when you got out the solar skirt. The panels need good air flow to make sure you get the best output from the panels and more importantly less yearly degradation from excessive heatwave temperatures.
Panels work best and live longer when they are running cold, indeed some are now fitting panels with fans in them and even water cooling systems.
Meter seal fairy appears to be waving her wand @ 19:01 :D
No. Eddy currents aren't a thing with DC.
no eddie currents in DC, you need a changing magnetic field to create an eddie current.
Instead of drilling more holes in the back box, for the isolator switch, and plugging the wrong ones, why did you just not undo the switch from what looked like a DIN rail in the housing and turn it round - the back box looked symmetrical?
Solar panels work better when cooler, are you not worried that the solar skirts will restrict airflow to the underside of the panels? the mesh allows good air flow. :)
You should use a torque wrench when fasting the clamps on the solar panels. Read the manual 😉
I had one blow off in the gales last year damaged another one ,not covered by the special panel insurance i took out because it was an act of god,any excuse eh?
Impact driver
Hey mate you could of just turned the panels upside down on one side to make the cable run shorter.
I may have missed battery install of the off grid, but a lot of inverters need a grid supply for the inverter to work. Or can you do it so that even these inverters will work if power goes to the grid , therefore then giving full off grid just of battery. Im not a fan of bird barrier but that trim does set it, you have converted me, from the norm look and so better than that mesh bird barrier. good job lads
Tesla is one of the few ‘main brands’ that will allow use on a complete power outage. There may be other brands out there but at the moment we’d recommend a Tesla Powerwall if this is what you are after.
can you show use how you do the stringline thing to get the panels straight please
😳27:40 "the Atrisan way" - beauty OVER EFFICIENCY 👏 panels NEED COOLING for their max efficiency 👏
08:10 Nice Architects Drawing
Eddy currents : You will ONLY have eddy currents from a CHANGING magnetic field!! ( ie electromagnetic magnetic induction from a time varying magnetic field)
Since you are working with DC - there is no changing magnetic field therefore there cannot be any induced (eddy) currents.
solar skirt looks nice but doesn't allow airflow under the panels. as the panels increase in temperature the efficiency falls off a cliff.
When did the DC wiring colours change?? all I can find is Red/Black unless a 3 wire system (+v 0 -v) then 0v is white.
The problem with solid solar skirt is that it stops air flow under the panels. This causes the panels to heat up more and efficiency to drop.
Bloody good job that customer has such a humungous garage as there seemed to be a lot of kit/complexity in there, even without his batteries arriving. Might sound stupid but is there a correct order to starting up/shutting down all of that stuff?
about your question of eddy currents, quick google and found this may help in the future.
Does DC cause eddy current?
Image result for do eddy currents happen in dc
Electromagnetic induction is the reason behind eddy current. It will only occur if there is change in magnetic flux. In ac , the current is ever changing but dc , current is constant. So no emf is induced in the metal piece thus no current.
a sparrow might be able to get in that gap between the tile and the skirt...serious. I had birds in our attic and it wasnt until i started to plug the really small gaps that they finally stpped coming in. At least 50 percent of their size is just air and feathers!
Where do you get the little labels that you slide onto the cables? Like on your data cables etc. Make it real nice and neat. Thanks
Heat-strink for Dyno label printers
good and fast and not cheap but you drilled the holes in the bottum when it should of been in the top ?
How mutch would an install like this cost?
15:30 just one grape... the "V" connection should be made on the SPD itself rather than in the terminals... through my 10 years testing systems, this proved to be the best solution often the only one really working and protecting anything ! i know that the manufacturers often include schematic of connection and yes the SPD is parallel to the feed but that one is just not correct.
Out of interest, would you have installed the SPD in the loft, much closer to the solar panels and their mounting rails? Surely mounting the SPD in the garage is inviting trouble from overvoltages causing damage to the insulation of the DC cabling from the panels down to the first isolator, or to the isolator itself?
@@protectiongeek the rule to follow is to install the SPD as close to ground as possible, in reality it doesnt matter much as long as the ground connection is solid. this is because the internal resistivity of the hardware is higher than the straight to ground connection so in case of direct lightning hit, the cartridge blows and ground resistivity becomes almost zero so its the only way for the energy to travel to. when we test datacenters or tecelom systems, the SPD is at the mains which tends to be the first in line component, as far from what we want to protect as possible. i know what you want to say, but the cables used in solar applications are designed for 1000+volts so this is no problem, the overvoltage is then safely grounded before it hits the inverter which is good, either way works. one more thing i will say that the SPD is present to mainly save the inverter, which is the most expensive device and the grid side, if you get direct lightning hit to the panels, you can kiss them goodbye, the diodes burn in every case.then again if you get hit by lightning you have done something wrong
This is the typical roof where I would have installed Terran Generon.
I had unsubscribed just before Christmas as I felt the videos were heading away from why I joined in the first place. Good video, resubbed😁
Aren't solar panels really sensitive to temperature though?
Less on an issue in the UK I guess but you would want a nice perforated grill if you ask me.
Not sure on eddi currents but ac and dc should be kept separate
That ending XD
If you Dont live near someone with a pigeon loft your fine 🤣
Hi, I don't believe there will be eddy currents on DC, but also there would not be any on AC because you said you has brass bushings which are non-ferrous.
Great video, thanks. Do you still need DC isolation and surge protection with a solar edge invertor, I was told they had surge protection inbuilt?
Ni need for DC Isolation with an inverter that had built in DC isolator
kool look to the panels with solar skirt ...come guys - Arstisan way you could have wiped finger prints off skirt :) lol
Hello Jordon good work and neat it is worth to have solar panels in here hard to get sun it needs think twice before a hand thanks
Solar skirts look nice but they will hurt solar performance on the hottest days as you starve the back of air flow and they hotter they get the worse they perform.
I really like the look of those skirts my question is ventilation under the panels specially in full sun on a hot day could they potentially reduce efficiency of the panel if there getting so hot ?
Are there any drawbacks on the solar skirt. Ie increased thermals as lower wind/ breeze acting as cooling?
On such a small array it would have no effect on thermal build up or loss of efficiency, would be concerned more about birds nesting and biting through the cables, fault finding takes a while and might have to pull up all the panels!
DC eddy currents are so much of a thing, but even with AC, if the brass bushes were not electrically connected, there'd be no eddy current.
It takes 10000 kw hours of electricity to extract the silicon from sand (silicon dioxide ) to make 1 kwp of solar panel. The process is to mix the sand with charcoal and heat it in an electric arc furness to 2000 degrees the result of that is 98 percent pure silicon and carbon monoxide .The process is then repeated to obtain the pure silicon needed for the solar panels.
"It's not enough to shock anyone." Try the tongue!
from what I understand isn't it prohibited by inverter manufacturers to mix panels of different orientations? like in this sense you created one string comprised of panels on 2 different orientations (east and west)
That looks afantastic job, but no doubt very expensive. I can't help but wonder how many years of mains electricity you could have paid for with the same amount of money.