The Science of Bisexual Men (with AreTheyGay) | Sci Guys Podcast
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- čas přidán 18. 06. 2022
- Do bisexual men exist? Noted bisexual, "Are They Gay" joins us this week as we cover the studies that claimed to prove that bisexual men were, in fact, a myth.
AreTheyGay's channel: / aretheygay
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References & Further Reading
Arousal Pattern Studies & Articles
www.nytimes.com/2005/07/05/he...
journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
link.springer.com/article/10....
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
link.springer.com/article/10....
www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas...
bi.org/en/questions/all-women...
eadt.co.uk/news/university-of-essex-research-on-bisexual-men-2685984
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-347...
Bisexuality & Kinsey Scale
www.stonewall.org.uk/about-us...
bi.org/en/101/Kinsey-Klein
kinseyinstitute.org/research/...
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Are you bisexual? Or do you have any favourite characters that are bisexual?
@@Sentientmatter8 ikr he is one of my favorite comic relief side characters ever. Often times they aren’t done well and just end up being flat characters.
I am bicurious.
And one of my favorite bi characters is Luz from The Owl House :)
bisexual trans guy here!
also considering i might be ace-spec but definitely bi
Yes, I’m bi
Not officially a bi character but canonly bi, Willow Rosenberg from Buffy
Thanks for having me on, I had a great time!!!!
Bro they got AreTheyGay on the show epic
I WAS SO EXCITED IT WAS LIKE TWO WORLDS COLLIDING
@@arthur1428 SAME DUDE I SAW THE TITLE AND WAS IMMEDIATELY EXCITED
I love that Alex was a guest. S O . M U C H.
💖💖💕💕the crossover I didn’t know I needed, but loved! 💖💕💖🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️🏳️🌈😁💖💖😁😁🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🌈🍡🌰🍩🏰🍧🥭😭🤣💖😁😁😁✌️👌🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈Are they gay? Of course they are! I have B99 in the background right now, on mute! Love you all! 💕💖🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️✌️
I swear Corrys rants on sexuality and gender clean my soul from having to deal with transphobia and misinformed people constantly
My sweet nana found me a plain white boxy t-shirt in a charity shop, and gave it to me describing it as "a very bisexual t-shirt"... From context I'm pretty sure she meant androgynous/unisex, so her language made me chuckle (though it is a bisexual t-shirt when I'm wearing it!). Turns out she was spot on, just using an earlier meaning of the word!
yes i am bisexual and it took me far too long to accept it because i got told it was a phase and then i generally went for men. and i wanted to have a baby which logistically is just easier if you go for a straight-passing relationship... now i have a child im like, oh i literally ignored that part of me for so long. im going to be 30 this year and have always been an ally. it feels nice to actually accept myself.
i like that the term bisexual is so open though because, as you said, every human experiences attraction differently, therefore we can tailor the label to for our specific experience of attraction and sexuality! :) oh yeah and i’m bisexual ofc
Maybe you touch on this later in the podcast but arousal in relation to porn doesn’t necessarily indicate attraction either. Sexual attraction, at the very base level, is wanting to have sex with someone - it typically goes in a specific direction, eg. towards a specific person. Many people are aroused by porn which depicts sexual activities they’d never want to partake in, and there’s also the issue of arousal non-concordance. Arousal doesn’t in of it self incapsulate all of attraction and cannot be used as an determinant of sexuality as a whole
Absolutely.
Regarding bisexual people, a recent study compared the activation patterns of gay, straight, and bisexual men. Unlike gay and straight men, who displayed activation patterns indicative of sexual arousal when looking at images and videos of men or women, respectively, bisexual men showed similar patterns when looking at both sexes.
MRI has shown differences in patterns of brain activation between gay and straight men when viewing gay and straight pornography. The network of brain regions that are activated when gay men look at gay porn is the same network activated when straight men look at straight porn, in regions like the thalamus, which regulates sexual behavior, and the anterior cingulate, which regulates emotion. Men typically display significantly greater physiological responses to sexual stimuli depicting members of their preferred gender category and stated sexual orientation. Multiple study have shown that men's genital arousal is dependent upon stimulus features specific to their sexual interests. Stimulus features necessary to evoke genital arousal are much less specific in women than in men. heterosexual men are more aroused by female than by male sexual stimuli, whereas homosexual men show the opposite pattern.
Socialization shapes the extent to which our gender is expressed or suppressed, but it doesn’t dictate whether someone will be masculine or feminine, or whether she or he will be gender-conforming or gender-atypical. Whether a trait is deemed “masculine” or “feminine” is culturally defined, but whether a person gravitates toward traits that are considered masculine or feminine is driven by biology. For someone who is gender-nonconforming this is similarly influenced by biology, but the extent to which they will feel comfortable expressing their gender nonconformity (through, say, the way they dress or carry themselves) will be influenced by social factors, like parental upbringing and cultural messaging. Societal influence cannot, however, override biology. No matter how much parents or teachers or peers frown upon gender nonconformity (or gender conformity, for that matter), a person will gravitate toward the same interests and behaviors, but he or she may feel more inclined to hide that part of themselves. biology dictatesa person’s sense of gender.
Sexual orientation is inborn and fixed it is not something we are socialised into. Sexual orientation refers to sexual attraction to women, men, or both sexes. Attraction is the most accurate representation of a person’s true orientation because identity and behavior can be context-dependent. Biology, not society, dictates whether we are gender-typical or atypical, the extent to which we identify as the sex we were born as, and the partners we are sexually attracted to. When sperm fertilizes an egg at conception, the baby will be either female or male. This biology will influence hormonal exposure in the womb, as well as the child’s resulting gender identity. At about seven weeks, if the embryo is male, the testes will begin to secrete testosterone, masculinizing the brain. If the embryo is female, this process does not occur. before the brain has finished developing in utero.leading to differences between the sexes. The effects of prenatal testosterone on the developing brain has a powerful effect on the ways in which male and female brains grow. testosterone exposure alters the programming of neural stem cells responsible for brain growth, leading to differences between the sexes. Gay men have had a lower exposer and lesbian women have typically more masculine traits and more male typical than the average woman and gay men typically have more feminem traits than your average men. Researchers across a a variety of animal models (including rats, mice, and ferrets, since it’s not ethical for us to use human fetuses as test subjects), changing the amount of testosterone that an animal is exposed to changes whether they are sexually interested in same-sex or opposite-sex mates.
Studies involving girls with congenital adrenal hyperplasia are exposed to higher than usual levels of testosterone in the womb. Roughly 3 percent of girls with CAH will grow up to identify as male,10 and of those who don’t, a large proportion will identify as lesbian. The opposite is also true; children whose mothers took anti-androgenic medication (which lowers their testosterone levels) during pregnancy tend to prefer female-typical toys. Rough-and-tumble play, which is behavior typically seen in little boys, is less common in gay men and more common in lesbian women, due to lesser and greater masculinization of the brain, respectively. The research showing that gay brains are different from straight ones showed differences in brain structure associated with being gay. Biological Studies, found that a tiny part of the hypothalamus (called the third interstitial nucleus of the anterior hypothalamus or “INAH-3”) was more than twice as large in straight men as in gay men; in gay men, it was closer in size to that of straight women.3 The hypothalamus is responsible for the four F’s: feeding, fighting, fleeing, and fornicating. these finding suggested that gay men’s brains were partially feminized, and also, that the foundation of sexual orientation is established by biology.
Socialization theories, which were dominant in the 1900s, favored the idea that children were born "undifferentiated" and were socialized into gender roles and sexual orientation. This led to medical experiments in which newborn and infant boys were surgically reassigned into girls after accidents such as botched circumcisions. These males were then reared and raised as females without telling the boys, which, contrary to expectations, did not make them feminine nor attracted to men. All published cases providing sexual orientation grew up to be strongly attracted to women. The failure of these experiments demonstrate that socialization effects do not induce feminine type behavior in males, nor make them attracted to men, and that the organizational effects of hormones on the fetal brain prior to birth have permanent effects. These are indicative of 'nature', not nurture, at least with regards to male sexual orientation.
Scientific studies have confirmed sex differences in the brain that lead to differences in our interests and behavior. These differences are not due to the postnatal environment or societal messaging. Gender is indeed biological and not due to socialization. Studies have shown that sex differences exist across a wide range of cognitive abilities, including verbal fluency and mental rotation. gendered interests are predicted by -testosterone exposure in utero. Gay rights activists fought for the “born this way” narrative. because it came with greater social acceptance-and not only that, it is scientifically correct. A bizarre strain of thinking has sprung forth. Due to the trendiness in conceptualizing gender and sex as spectra, the concept of “sexual fluidity”claims that anyone can be gay, and that human sexuality is in actuality free-floating and whatever you want it to be.fluidity, if sexual orientation is flexible and changeable rather than rigid and fixed, doesn’t this also mean that anyone can be made to be straight?
More people are identifying sexuality as part of the community not out of a true sexual identity, but because it is trendy to do so, or because they believe sexuality is “fluid.” This undermines biological explanations for sexual orientation, which has been a disturbingly growing phenomenon. Within progressive circles, many otherwise ordinary, straight people have taken ownership of the word, because identifying as “queer” grants them the ability to claim sexual minority status. In my opinion, for straight men, identifying as “queer” can be a tool signaling their progressivism so that feminist women will date them. straight, female-typical women identify as part of an oppressed class because of intersectionality. Mainstream feminism, however, has encouraged an entirely new, malignant application, with groups who would otherwise be considered to have privilege clamoring for minority status so that their opinions are given more weight. Seizing one, or a handful, of the gender nonbinary identity labels allows a person to join the LGBT+ movement tangentially, without question, even when there is nothing L, G, B, or T about them. This ideological 180-degree change is presumably an attempt to widen social acceptance for people who are gay and bisexual, which I am all for. But the implications of doing so will only succeed at unraveling the very rights that gay activists struggled to obtain not too long ago.
Sexual orientation in men is biological, its genetic and it can't be changed so things like conversion therapy is completely useless. That's why homosexual men have similar structures and functions in the brain and their brains are shaped symmetrical like a heterosexual women and homosexual womem have similar stuctures and funtions as heterosexual men and their brains are asymmetrical like straight men also. Strong evidence from neuroscience and neuropsychological research also suggests differences in brain organization and functioning between heterosexual and homosexual men and women. In general, this evidence shows that gay men and heterosexual women are more alike in neural correlates, while lesbian women and heterosexual men are more alike. homosexuals of both sexes show strong cross-sex shifts in brain symmetry an connectivity differences. These effects during development are permanent.
Functional MRI has shown differences in patterns of brain activation between gay and straight men when viewing gay and straight pornography. The network of brain regions that are activated when gay men look at gay porn is the same network activated when straight men look at straight porn, in regions like the thalamus, which regulates sexual behavior, and the anterior cingulate, which regulates emotion. Men typically display significantly greater physiological responses to sexual stimuli depicting members of their preferred gender category and stated sexual orientation. Stimulus features necessary to evoke genital arousal are much less specific in women than in men. heterosexual men are more aroused by female than by male sexual stimuli, whereas homosexual men show the opposite pattern. The correspondences of sexual arousal indices were similar for Heterosexual and homosexual men . These findings are in line with other research suggesting that some aspects of the neurological organization of male sexual arousal are independent of sexual orientation, and therefore expressed similarly in heterosexual and homosexual men. Men tend to be very category specific, if they're into women, they really like women and not into guys.. if they're into guys they're really into guys and not into women.
Female sexuality is much more fluid than men. Some homosexual women were marginally more aroused to the same sex than the other sex. In addition, the correspondence of their arousal indices were more male-typical, that is, stronger, than for other women. Male-typical sexual arousal in females is likely be due to elevated exposure to prenatal androgen that affects postnatal masculinized behaviours). These prenatal influences are possibly responsible for why homosexual women are more male-typical than heterosexual women in other ways, including their motor behaviours, voice patterns, physical appearance, and self-concepts ). The most masculine-behaving women may therefore have most male typical sexual responses.
That's why paraphilias(unusual sexual interests) are more common in men. Research suggests that paraphilia is maybe akin to a sexual orientation. It's the same idea conceptually as being gay, it's someone's preference and it can't be changed and it's with them from a very early on. With the sexual orientation women tend to be more flexible with their sexual preferences. So if they have a partner who's very kinky they might be into whatever he's into, but then if she's with someone who's less kinky it might not be as much of a problem. Whereas if it's a man who's really into something, if his partner's not into it he's always going to be into it, he's just gonna have to hide it. Women's genital arousal is an automatic response to sexual stimuli, whereas men's genital arousal is dependent upon stimulus features specific to their sexual interests. Women showed little category specificity on either the genital or the subjective measure. Women experienced strong genital arousal to both male and female sexual stimuli. category-specific pattern, demonstrating sexual arousal patterns play fundamentally different roles in male and female sexuality.
For most men, regardless of their sexual orientation, the relationship between their sexual arousal indices was substantially stronger than for most women . These findings were consistent with the literature on sex differences in the agreement of genital arousal with subjective arousal. In addition, physiological sexual arousal and sexual orientation were more strongly linked in men than women. It's hypothesized that males might have evolved to coordinate their sexual arousal and attraction indices more strongly than women because it aids them in building their sexual orientation towards relevant sexual targets. Perhaps, then, men’s, more than women’s, reactions are an integrated part of their sexual response system that involves the synchronization of other aspects of their sexual arousal. These factors could include, for example, the activation of the visual cortex or limbic system the time spent viewing relevant stimuli, or their temperature regulation during sexual arousal.
For bisexual men, the coordination of arousal indices was weaker, thus, more female-typical than for other men. Hence, present findings for bisexual men indicated that if the general sex differences in the correspondence of arousal indices are reversed within one sex, it affects more than one aspect of the expression of sexual arousal. Bisexual men were, however, in their physiological reactions not particularly responsive to their less arousing sex; yet, this finding fell within the expected range of previously reported effects. Hence, in general, bisexual men responded at least slightly stronger to their less arousing sex than other men. Moreover, bisexual men were less responsive in their physiological reactions to their more arousing sex compared to other men.
There was a similar finding by measuring men’s arousal via pupil dilation in bisexual men in regard to lowered physiological responses to the preferred (or more arousing) sex. Bisexual mens sexual arousal was similar to heterosexual women, they have bisexual physiological responses in the sense that they are somewhat (but less) aroused to either sex. Consequently, they are less discriminative in their sexual arousal than either heterosexual or homosexual men. Women’s variable sexual arousal, as compared to men’s, could be due to the fact that female sexual attraction is more strongly affected by situational, cultural, and environmental circumstances. If bisexual men are more female-typical than other men, then, perhaps, they are more influenced by these external factors, resulting in a less specific arousal pattern. Such variability within bisexual men could in part explain inconsistent findings for their sexual arousal to men and women. Notably, bisexual men’s subjective responses were more consistent with their sexual orientation than were their physiological responses). Because subjective arousal and sexual orientation were assessed by self-report, it is possibly that participants matched their responses to these measures. Physiological sexual reactions, however, are likely less under participants control than are their subjective responses, and can therefore lead to stronger discrepancies with someone’s self-identified sexual orientation.
@@janx8695could you tell me the name of that study, please? Looks interesting
@@elidayan2h875
1. Sexual Arousal: The Correspondence of Eyes and Genitals. Gerulf Rieger, University of Essex
Brian M. Cash, Sarah M. Merrill, James Jones-Rounds, Sanjay Dharmavaram, and Ritch C. Savin-Williams
Cornell University
2. Neural correlates of sexual orientation in heterosexual, bisexual, and homosexual men., A., Sylva, D., Klimaj, V., Rosenthal, A. M., Li, M., Walter, M., & Bailey, J. M..
There is two for you but there is tons more, some of them behind a pay wall some of them not.
I was at a festival last weekend, and I overheard a very interesting conversation between two guys in a group of tents behind mine. The gist was that one guy was explaining that he was polyamorous and had two girlfriends and a boyfriend and there all very happy. Another man was attempting to use “facts and logic” to politely explain to the first man why his polyamorous relationship logically couldn’t, and therefore in actual fact didn’t, work. Regardless of how well he thought it was going. His thesis was that since he believed he’d seen “evidence” that all people in relationships need to be the most important person to their partner, that any relationship with more than two people is logically always going to involve some people feeling left out and therefore going to be unhappy, dysfunctional, and doomed to collapse.
It struck me how weird it is to hear someone tell you about the way they live and their romantic feelings towards other people and have your first impulse be to explain to them why they are wrong about those things they are experiencing and feeling. It's a strange human instinct, but obviously one that scientists are no more immune from than any other people.
The way I see it with science is that individual scientists are still totally fraught with all the biases, bigotry and inertia of thinking that something like religion is. But the institution of science does slowly over time grind through those things. Sometimes more slowly than others. But progress is eventually made from the inside. Whereas religions are generally quite happy staying put in the safe cocoon of human failings their members have built around them, until external social factors start forcing them to change, if they ever do. So while at any moment you can quite easily point to some aspect of science and say that it is "like a religion" in that it has institutional thinking and inherent biases, over time those will be undermined by the slow accumulation of evidence. So when looked at over decades, science and religion do behave quite differently
The 2nd paragraph ❤️
I love Cory‘s attraction cause it‘s like the reverse from me (f) where like all the men I‘m attracted to are gay… 😂😅
I find GBT+ men more attractive in general too. I think it’s because they feel safer and more comfortable to be around.
I’m such a massive fan of both these channels and seeing them together was the last thing I’d ever expected
I'm biromantic ace. I tend to be attracted to feminine (and usually queer) men, so its funny that Corry has the opposite experience. Also hearing Aretheygay on this podcast was an out of body experience, having last heard his voice in the Aretheygay spideypool video LOLLL. 10/10. The rant about Capitalism made my day
I’m also biromantic ace and have noticed that I tend to be attracted to more masculine (and usually queer) women, like Corry, as well as more attracted to more feminine (and usually queer) men, like you. I think the general pattern of my attraction is that I like androgynous queer people, whether they’re men, women, or non-binary.
I think part of it is that I just personally like androgynous styles but I also think that, as an androgynous queer trans guy, I think I just have more in common and am more compatible with other androgynous queer people.
I’m bi!
I’ve always been really open about it and I’m always up for discussion about it. I’m not uncomfy talking about that aspect of my existence at all :)
I’m 17, and have identified as bi since I was about 13. I’ve only dated guys but experience attraction to other genders too. I don’t like it when people are like “if you’ve only dated guys you can’t be bi”. It’s like saying you’re ace until you have sex. It’s just not the case. You don’t have to experience a relationship with someone to know whether you fancy them or not, otherwise crushes wouldn’t be a thing.
People think being bi is some upcoming trend, but at the end of the day, you’ll only ever know your experience. You can’t assume people are saying they’re bi just because it’s “trendy”, because you can’t ever know for sure how they feel personally.
Bisexuality vs Pansexuality is a whole debate that people like to fuss over. Personally I like the label bi because I have a preference towards masc people over fem people, and I understand pansexuality to be that those aspects don’t affect attraction (although this may be different for some, I’m not pan so I can’t speak on that experience)
If anyone has any questions feel free to ask, I’m open to talking about it!
Also, if I’ve said anything incorrectly please tell me! Educating ourselves is a really helpful way to help us understand eachother :)
How did you know you're bi???
the whole social pressure argument makes no sense to me bc if a guy is sleeping with women to avoid discrimination for being gay, then why would he label himself as bi?? it just doesn't add up, cause if he was really looking to escape the prejudice he would most likely just say he's straight???? this clearly comes from someone who just doesn't understand the bisexual experience
For a gay guy to just CLAIM he's "straight" (in order to avoid discrimination) in no way helps him come to terms with the truth of his situation. He's looking for a way to claim and acknowledge his homosexuality--be truthful about--and gain some level of acceptance by society. Claiming he's "bisexual" at least allows him to be thought of as someone who understands the sexual attraction to the opposite sex. OK, then he's somewhat normal!
I like one very specific type of man, and a wide, wide variety of women. But! If I were present with an equal group of people, I’d definitely like more men.
Does that mean I like men more? Does it mean masculinity needs a more diverse variety of style? Who knows. But I’m definitely bisexual 💗💜💙
Dude, you have all my respects, my love and everything, lol. Like, I feel your comment on a spiritual level. The "Does it mean masculinity needs a more diverse variety of style?" part is just so accurate it's frightening. And I actually have a very similar experience as yours, with men and women.
Hugs from a Spanish bisexual woman! ^_^ ~♡
Feel the same way.
just that you had this conversation, means so much to me. Proudly out 35 year old bi man. Was gay before. X
😆 "The only information that bisexual gives you is, this person is not straight or gay." As a bisexual, sometimes that is all the information I have on how I experience attraction. 🤷🏻♀️ Like it's so random sometimes.
yep - I'm bi but when asked I usually use whatever descriptor will allow for the most puns.
Okay so Im only halfway through the episode but about the first study's conclusion:
A lot of bisexual people have preferences toward one sex or the other. Isnt possible that these men in the first study had only came forward as bisexual because had an overwhelmingly high attraction to men?
A bisexual person dating the opposite sex has no need to come out unless they want to.
But those mostly interested in the same sex will more likely be forced to come out, because it's harder to hide.
Maybe the social pressure wasn't making "gay" men claim they were bisexual. Maybe the stigma caused most bi men to pretend to be "straight"???
Oh yes thats a really good consideration!
I like the idea of a multidimensional Kinsey scale, bisexuals could express the precise nuance of our sexuality as a complex number
As a bisexual maths nerd this is so pleasing 😂
I'm not bisexual, but (funny story) I thought I was for a long time because my sexual attraction is very much the same towards all genders: none (I'm asexual)
Also I do know that bisexuality doesn't mean equally attracted to all genders, but it can be and I thought that was me lol
From what I've seen, your logic isn't all that uncommon for asexual people (at least until they learn about asexuality). Obviously depends on their specific flavor of asexuality because there's asexual people who are also straight, gay, bi, etc. but it's all too common to assume you're bi or pan because you feel the same level of attraction towards the people around you; that being none. I remember Jaiden Animations talking about that with her experience.
This is one of my favorite podcasts. Love this! Another great episode.
this was my multiverse of madness 🤠
I'm comfortable wearing the bisexual label for simplicity, but I'm demisexual panromantic if we wanna get specific.
Listened to this on Spotify and popped over here to add in that I'm bi! This was a really interesting episode and I really enjoyed it!
THIS IS THE CROSSOVER I NEVER KNEW I WANTED
"But- God didn't even say things in English!! D:" I love this podcast lmao
If anyone is interested Julia Shaw a psychologist who is bisexuell herself wrote a brand new book about bisexually and the science behind it!
Haven't read it myself but the last book I read from her was amazing so anyone who is further interested in the science and history of bisexuality can check it out!
Not bisexual specifically, I use the label queer
I use both pansexual and bisexual to describe myself because I think my brain works a little too literally to not be more specific in definition than bisexual, but at the same time being bisexual has more of an identity (at least that Im familiar with) than being pansexual. Like you guys were talking about cuffed jeans and like I love iced coffee and all and like I feel like when bisexuality is already questioned it's nice to at least have some lgbt position to sit with if that makes any sense. Like I don't think that everyone necessarily cares about that aspect of it, but I have a hard time relating to people and I like what that can bring as a bonding factor
I’ve been wondering about these bisexual men 🤣 how do they work? i have been sleeping with many of them and I’m still not sure
What if the sexual material shown to the men were not images of women they were attracted to? Why don’t the scientists ask bi men what types of women they are attracted to and show that to them?
Did you know Kinsey added a 'group X' for people who didn't fit on his scale because they had no attraction to anyone?
Lmao at 18 minutes in, this is why we were very flustered as piano teachers. Trying to teach western music while also include how other styles exist, western music is a barely defined category that includes a lot of ideas taken out of the context of their original music genres and used in often racist ways... While also absorbing and taking over from other music genres within "the West" as well, it kept us from knowing how to go back tbh.
I love Corrys optimism when it comes to science. It's uplifting, since I logn ago lost faith in science when I studied at the university.
omg. the c word. my favourite part of sci guys is when capitalism is brought up 😁🥳
I really like & get confused by the categorisation stuff. I identify as a gay bear, but sometimes I worry that it’s needless to have a box within a box. Gay subcultures are interesting & confusing…
I'm a 63-year-old Pansexual/Homoromantic white cis man. My pronouns are He/Him/His
Nice!
I identify as queer ace, but I think there's a giant overlap between queer and bi so sometime just use bi for simplicity's sake. Had to comment when Corry mentioned quantum physics being so much easier to put specific language to than biology or other fields - as a physics student, no. Just no! We literally get told in uni not to bother trying to understand it because you can't, and to just do the maths😂
Corry’s rant about how the word “bi” delivers so little information about the individual really reminded me of your asexuality episode too. Someone saying “I’m ace” could mean about 20 different kinds of experiences - I guess that’s what we mean when we call those words umbrella terms. There’s a bi spectrum and an ace spectrum and a nonbinary spectrum etc. I think broad labels are extremely useful for getting a general idea across (like “I’m not straight” or “i’m not cis”) but for specifics you’d have to have a conversation and get to know them better as an individual.
In my perception, when I was younger, bisexual used to just mean that "im attracted to the person regardless of gender", I think the definition of "two or more genders" has come up later to distinguish from pansexuality. For me bisexual still means that the gender or sex characteristics isnt the main focus of the attraction
I have the same sort of philosophy (& it does make me wonder if you're a late GenX/elder Millenial/Xennial, since that seems to be the time this line of thought seemed most prevalent 😄) - I used to say "I don't really care what kind of junk someone has, if I like someone, I like someone 🤷🏻♀" & have always identified as bisexual. And nowadays it seems that definition is used by a large percentage of people that identify as pansexual because they want to note that they don't reject transgender people (which, in and of itself, is actually transphobic 😏), and not only that, but also want to make sure they aren't mistaken for one of those non-enlightened bisexuals who *ONLY* like men & women - because 'bi' means 2, DUH!" 🙄
Obviously (& thankfully!) #NotAllPansexuals, but I encountered... lets say vocal amount of these people in my youth, when talk of pansexual & omnisexual orientations were becoming wider. I'm no longer in any activist-type spaces, nor do I interact with many people in general, so I don't know how much this has changed, but I do *hope* it's changed significantly!
I really don't understand why 'bisexual' is a term *SO* many people want to condemn, thus making people want to run from it as a label & make up all sorts of new terms for the same concept. It's really very sad to me.
took the kinsey scale test because of this and it was pretty spot on, despite the wording being fuckin hilarious.
i’m bi. relieved that there’s someone bi in the chat didn’t know what to expect when I clicked this !!
I am bi. Well, I use both the terms pansexual and bisexual interchangeably for myself
Defining Sexuality is like defining lycanthropy
Is it people who turn into werewolves or is it people who think
they are turning into werewolves or is it both or the same thing
It doesn't really matter 🐺
What a lovely collaboration💖
Technically I would be considered bi, but I usually don’t describe myself as such because a lot of people take it to mean that you like men and women, whereas I only like men and non-binary people and specifically people who are somewhere in the neutral to masc range or agender. The most accurate sexuality I’ve seen to describe myself is uranic.
yeah I don't think that would count as bisexuality, orientation is complicated lol
I feel like the study would be better done by showing the participants photos of people and having them rate how attracted they are to that person, and compare that to the subject's arousal symptoms. Using porn puts the subject into a sexualized environment which can itself be sexy enough to cause arousal responses even if the subject isn't sexually attracted to any of the cast in that specific porn.
I'm not sure you're totally correct in that. Showing a guy like my roomie a vid of a dude masturbating wouldn't do anything for my roommate: it would probably just put him off or make him laugh at most.
What you're saying would definitely apply to me as I'm bi/pan, but that's not universal.
interesting discussion!
I’m 28, and have identified as bisexual since I was like 11. I don’t vibe much with the most modern definitions of bisexuality that I see, mostly because I don’t really understand what it means to be attracted to genders, as it’s never been my experience.
I experience my attraction as sex-based instead I would say, and then gender may or may not have an effect on how I feel about them on an individual basis. (side note, it feels so weird to speak about something organic and personal so clinically)
I’m attracted to both male and female bodies, as well most presentations that don’t quite fit into either. I recognize that my experience isn’t everyone’s, as a lot of people gravitate toward saying their attraction is to the gender of the person, so I typically adhere to a more classic definition of bisexual like “being attracted to both male and female people” and will happily explain more if asked.
anyway enjoyed the conversation!
19:08 It all comes back to this damned system
Good discussion but I wish you had touched on the researcher franz Klein who was bi who developed another scale to try to address the limitations of the Kinsey scale
DUDE!! Im gonna go on a bit of a tangent here, but it pisses me off so much when people generalize the 2 genders down to their bits, 2 cis men can have totally different bodies, yet we view them in the same category, that question of what is a woman, what is a man, etc has been thrown around so much as of late, and theres that breed of human who say "well, someone with a penis" or "someone with a vagina" and when it comes to that, i wonder- what even is a penis or a vagina in itself? No one has the same bottom half, its not so simple as to generalize it like that. i have a higher degree of testesterone as an afab guy, its in my family, we have alot more hair; thick eyebrows, arm and leg hair, etc. Even pre-t, i have a tiny mustache 🥺 my amount of testerone and my amount of, really any hormone is completely different than any afab person i could walk by on the street, just like gender expression, biology is a spectrum, its unbelievable how people can just say so simply and carelessly that ones bottom bits is what defines all of them
Bi guy here 👋 older brother is, but won't tell anyone. Had 1 bi guy friend, but he died. Not many ppl to talk to, so thank you for talking about this.
I love Luke too because he's adorable in the way that he asks so many questions out of pure curiosity
And he always sounds a little bit scared he's offending someone so he always overcorrects and it's really funny
Luke it's okay we know you're a good person
There's another important reason why adult films cannot be used to accurately gauge how attraction and relationships work in the real world, which is that these films are fictional fantasy scenarios. The people involved are actors, and the situations depicted are unrealistic, hyperbolic, power fantasy fulfillment. On top of that, pursuing gratification through consumption of adult content is not the same as pursuing an actual relationship in real life, which takes a much larger investment of time and energy.
First podcast for me, but hearing that Corry is always going on about capitalism makes him 1000% hotter.
Cory I totally relate to you saying that any woman you've be attracted to have not been straight. It's the same for me and men.
SaME!?!
@@isabbygabbyorcrabby Yeah, any man I've ever been attracted to wasn't straight.
In botany, we _still_ use the term "bisexual" to refer to flowers that have both "male" and "female" reproductive structures. As a bisexual botany professor, I always enjoy explaining this to my students.
💓💜💙 It might sound crazy but it ain't no lie, baby I'm bi bi bi.
I used to identify as bisexual, and depending on which definition I suppose I still do, but I generally use 'sexually fluid' now.
After a recent discussion with some friends, I've started considering sexuality as a spectrum of spectrums. For example, 'bisexual' is on the spectrum of sexuality, but 'bisexual' itself is also a spectrum, no two bi people have the exact same experience or pattern of attraction.
Amazing episode as always, love Corry's rants on gender and sexuality!
“Sexually fluid” sounds a lot like abrosexual to me!
@@cloudsys_shenanigans that's pretty much the idea, I didn't know "abrosexual" was its own term tbf 😅
"GoD dIdN't EvEn SaY tHiNgS iN eNgLiSh"
I love Luke he's so fucking funny lmao
I'm bi romantic, I think. Don't really care to be 100% sure honestly. I like the people I like lol.
I’m a bisexual guy, but I’m not sure if I’m heteroromantic or biromantic, because I don’t feel comfortable cuddling with or kissing a guy (albeit I’m aware that might be internalised homophobia), and guys being camp is a huge turn off for me, I prefer straight-acting guys…
@@Nightraven26 Sexual and romantic orientation is super confusing lol
you guys should do a science of capitalism episode
I don't know, cave paintings are pretty complex and dope
Well, since you asked. Hmmm i might be. I mean mostly i am atracted to men. Both very masc guys and fem guys. But i have had crushed on women (they did not like me though 💔). To be honest sex is not very high on the list of things that interest me. I’m all for being romantic though. Being religious at some point I thought i might just become a nun and forget about this sex thing but then I met my husband and well It has been a learning curve. But yeah, boys are cute, girls are cute and I like to cuddle.
At the 19:04 the emergence of nomenclature related to sexuality was tied to the emergence of capitalism but it would seem that it's much more tied to the evolution of the modern scientific enterprise. As it was noted earlier, the term "bisexual" was initially used in a biological/physiological context to refer to what we know today as intersex persons. So we're essentially talking about taxonomy, the modern science of classification that traces to the work of Carl Linnaeus in the mid-18th century. Now one *might* argue this is tangentially related to capitalism as taxonomy emerged against the backdrop of worldwide European colonialism efforts which brought Western Europeans into contact with human populations and animal and plant species in other parts of the world that they had no knowledge of up until that time. Trading expeditions served as the vehicle for taxonomic classification systems to help organize all of the newfound scientific information that was being gathered by merchants, investigators, and explorers. And it wasn't long before its use in the natural sciences became standard in social sciences also in the 19th century, particularly in light of Darwin's scientific expeditions and the revolutionary contributions that followed.
No I’m not bisexual, but I’m pansexual, which I learned recently is on the spectrum of bisexuality.
I'm bisexual. I'm a 3 on the kinsey scale
Speaking on the conversation at 11:00, I am a bi cis woman with the same (reverse) attraction! I am barely ever attracted to straight men 😂
I think you should do a documentary about why some men feel harder than others😂❤
So gassed when I found out these two worlds collided
I'm Pan Alterous, a younger sibling of Bi.
Jess I am.
Yes, thank you about the women in porn bit! I'm afab, only recently came out as enby, and I always assumed that I was straight when I was younger because I didn't like seeing women in most porn, I preferred watching men. However I've more recently realized that I just don't like the exploitation of and fakeness from women in mainstream porn. On the rare occasion that I can find true lesbian porn and not something made for the male gaze I do like it, so I'm currently at a bi curious standpoint. It's harder for me to come to a conclusion though since I'm also demisexual. I can look at pretty people of either gender and think they're attractive, but I wouldn't sleep with them unless I had a more personal connection. It's more like an aesthetic attraction if they're a stranger.
Public presentation and reality are such different issues... From my observations, most guys who publicly identify as "bi" are usual just gay. And guys who are genuinely bisexual just identify as "straight" or don't identify as anything... Also from my experience, the most promiscuous, skirt-chasing, sincerely womanizing guys almost always have a bi-curious side to them which, on occasion, they actually act on.
23:45 I think this was later debunked, that study had a small sample size, and it was later found in another study that there are guys who identify as bisexual who have an arousal pattern towards both men and women
Yea
yeah i am
I have a question why don't you do a video on why so call straight men are afraid of bisexuality or gay men
Oh, Corey - doctors tell women ALL. THE. *TIME*. that their pain isn't really/doesn't exist, simply because THEY can't find it (or worse, refuse to even look for it)! For instance, I have endometriosis (an issue related to having a womb) & I was VERY lucky to get a diagnosis after only 5 years of complaining; 20 years ago, that was amazing, since many didn't get dx'd until 15 or 20 years later (if at all)! People are getting dx'd with it much earlier these days, so it's getting...better, but going from, say, 1 to 2 on a 20 point scale isn't a huge accomplishment, kwim?
It's mind-boggling how 'professionals' really think they're doing something, when someone tells them about their own lived experience, and they turn around and say, "yeah, ya know...everything you just said? It isn't a thing." 🤦🏻♀🤦🏻♀
yea
Yes
The bisexual manifesto clearly has more than two genders in it so it's not a particularly new idea. Remember that the lgbtq+ community was a community back then although there were a lot of different rifts in it back then too. Non-binary is a newer term but the idea is older and obviously trans people were involved in the riots and stuff
i use queer but i am practically bi 💗💙💜
Has anyone ever tested the same group of men more than once? Perhaps men's sexual attraction cycles between men and women while women's sexual attraction is simultaneously toward men and women. Just a thought.
I think Alex is trying to express throughout that, sociologically, we need to be interpretivists, rather than positivists. Hi Alex if you’re reading this lol! Ok bye again! 💖💕💖💖🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🌈🎉😁🏰☮️👌✌️👌✌️👌🧇🍩🥭🍡🌰🍧
I'm Pansexual/Bisexual 💜
Yes.
yes i am a bisexual man:)
“They’re not written into the fabric of the universe” - Alex. Avila. 💖🏳️⚧️💕😁💖🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️💕😁🌈🏳️🌈😁👌🏰🍧🥭🍡🌰🍩🎉🐺🧇🎂absolutely spot on fr!!!
Yes I am
Yes, yes I am
I am indeed bisexual!
I'm bi and not pan because 1. I like the bi colors better. 2. I've identified as bi for a long time. 3. Bi is more well known. 4. I do experience attraction regardless of gender, but how someone presents and what their body looks like does play a part. Idgaf about gender but I have a different attraction to feminine people than masculine people and androgynous people etc.
I identify as bi, but I’m also attracted to FtM trans guys, but not MtF trans girls… 🤷♂️ there’s just something about male genitals on a female body which is a turn off for me…
@Nightraven26 Yep your exactly the same as me. I'm a Bi man, I like both men and women, in addition to FtM's but not MtF
Am I bi? Yes, hetero (in chemistry anyway) means more than one, so bi is the same gender, and others too
I do feel unseen. My first serious boyfriend told me that bisexuality is a myth, and that I was gay and simply hadn’t accepted that fact.
I’ve had a biphobic girlfriend too, where, before I came out to her, couldn’t understand that a man who enjoyed same sex bonking (I’m obviously British) as well as enjoying having a bonk with a woman.
I’d say that I’m always between 25-75% on that idea of a scale.
When I’m with a woman, I’m not straight, I’m bi. And, when with a guy, I’m not gay, I’m still bi.
I’m old enough to remember the church and other morality police, used to think that aids was only gay men and injecting drug users. Then when straight, god fearing women started getting it, bisexual men were blamed more than their cheating spouse for aids crossing over to the general population. Personally I don’t go paddling without wearing my welly boots
I am bisexual!
today I found out I do indeed exist
My two favorite Bi-Guys
I suddenly feel being straight is rare😅😢
💟💜💙
I'm bi