Christianity trains people to believe in glaring falsehoods - Shane Almgren
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- čas přidán 23. 12. 2023
- Today I spoke with Shane Almgren, who grew in a fundamentalist evangelical charismatic Christian environment as a missionary kid and eventually became a worship leader himself, but ultimately deconverted as he examined the truth claims of Christianity.
We touched on many topics, including:
• Admitting that the Christian worldview is not just erroneous but also truly horrifying.
• Facing early in life the discrepancy between the teaching that if you ask for something in Jesus' name that he will do it, versus the experience that he doesn't actually do things that you ask for in his name.
• Being told by his parents that he could always come to them with his questions and doubts yet being afraid to do so due to the heavy disciplinarian context at home.
• Moving to China with his family to become full-time missionaries.
• Badly wanting to have an increasing relationship with god but never being able to make it progress to deeper levels like the Christians around him claimed to be experiencing.
• Not seeing Christians clearly differentiate between the power of things that are perceived as magic or absurd claims versus the scientific explanation for what actually happened and the psychological dynamics for why were deceived -- especially in the realm of supernatural claims and conspiracy theories.
• Realizing that when we were Christians, what we called "knowledge" about the Christian belief system and worldview was actually just blind faith and the uncritical acceptance of our indoctrination and groupthink.
• How the church trains your thinking to interpret blind faith as a virtue and a show of piety.
• Understanding that Christianity systematically removes kids' thought autonomy.
• Going to Christians for help to understand the contradictions in the Bible and finding only that they felt unequipped and intimidated by the task, and ultimately wouldn't get involved in the discussions.
• The importance of breaking society from the supposed importance of making firm conclusions on topics for which there is no strong evidence either way.
• Seeing the connection between believing in the Christian worldview and being gullible regarding conspiracy theories, and ultimately realizing that Christianity is a bogus system that trains people to believe in glaring falsehoods.
Many thanks to Shane for sharing his story and insights!
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Connect with Shane:
www.shanealmgren.com/
www.amazon.com/stores/author/...
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Shane's interview with Derreck Bennett of Atheologica:
• Why Are Evangelicals P...
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Other interviews by Shane:
• "Conspiracy Christiani...
• 460 Conspiracy Christi...
• Live Show ~ Conspiracy...
• Are Believers Being Hy...
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Please subscribe to my other channels (many more channels and videos coming soon!)
linktr.ee/harmonicatheist
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Tim may be reached on FB at: harmonictim
Or by email at: harmonicatheist@yahoo.com
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--Tim
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Ending music by Eyal Raz, "Friends"
• Friends
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After Christianity conditions people to believe glaring falsehoods, it makes it easier for politicians to further manipulate them with glaring falsehoods.
"Religion is: to the wise man false, to the common man true, to the politician useful." - Seneca
Even 18 years after leaving the church, and now 50 years old, it's still hard for me to have autonomy and know what my preferences are. I was told from childhood what to think, wear, say and so on. I've also realized that I was traumatized by those years, and it probably contributed to my anxiety and other health issues. I feel for what Shane went through.
You are not alone.
Yes. In so many ways i learned to devalue my own feelings… or even feel guilty to have them. This caused a situation where i often did not even know what i felt.
EVERYBODY gets programed in the first seven or so years in their life, and good or bad, it stays with you, your entire life. Most people (in church or out of church) do not have perfect families and that is why they have trauma to deal with.
Do you think the atheists are doing any better, they have legislated that you can only affirm a child, parents can have their children removed and/or go to jail. The psychopathy of the US has not only deranged themselves but the whole world.
A psychiatrist said that analysis was done on the causes of trauma/more general problems in those getting therapy, and 34% in the US was down to trauma induced as a result of religion.
This is one reason why the _child abuse_ of bringing children up in _any_ religious/cult belief system needs to be recognised as such and banned.
We don’t (if we’re responsible) let children have access to porn or recreational drugs, so why is it legal to expose them to far more dangerous material, such as the torah, bible and qur’an?
The results of such exposure aren’t just potentially damaging to the children, but to the wider society, in a range of ways. No one under the age of 18 should be allowed to read such dangerous nonsense, it literally changes the way that people “think”, and it’s to their detriment.
This guy is asking himself “ What was wrong with him” and why he “ could not feel Gods presence “ etc. This guy is sane and in touch with reality and the rest of them were living in a dream detached from reality
That's part of the inversion that is this religious bollocks.
I can't for the live of me remember who talked me into going to a (pretending to) "speak in tongues" church, but various people stood up, pretended to speak in tongues and others, just as pathetically, pretended to interpret what they said.
From a psychological point of view it was fascinating, but the fact that people put themselves through such an infantile charade every bloody week is mind boggling.
They spent some time trying to pressure me into doing it, but I point blank refused, however, if I had thought about it in hindsight, I should have bought a tablet to break in my mouth to simulate frothing at the mouth, and practiced something like the Blackspeech of the Orcs, to see how that might have gone down.
The god belief disappears when the individual accepts responsibility for its own existence.
Humanity is currently in the childhood stage and needs a god parent to provide security, love, and discipline.
I deconverted from Fundamentalist, Evangelical Christianity at the age of 45 years old. I have adult children that I had raised as strict Evangelicals Christians. They went to fundamentalist Christian private school, nightly devotions, all the indoctrination. I even took my kids to ministry trips and open air preaching. My son, while still a theist, became what I would have called as a "Liberal Christian". Not sure he is even a Christian, per se, more of a general theist. After I deconstructed I asked him "So, what did I do 'wrong' that kept you from becoming a Fundie?" His answer was, "Well you messed up when you taught me to think."
Interesting answer.
@@owenallen5733 And a thinking person will respond by asking when anyone has ever shown that this so-called "lord" and "god" exists. Remember, not all who wander and question are lost and in need of "salvation." First, christians created a problem and then invented the solution to their imagined problem.
Forced indoctrination into ANY religious cult is child abuse in the extreme.
I went to Sunday school about 5 times when I was between age and 6 and 8.
Nothing to speak of, and they were standing around listening and not speaking in toungs listen for a minute and singing. It didn't even spark indoctrination of any kind but, just enough "magic" mentioned in the Bible, to keep from ever truly believing it was real in any way. Talking serpent's ( more than one) and a lot more , (tons) of bullshit for me to ever believe any of it! I took the time to read the entire Bible cover to cover over a dozen times just for shit and giggles. Over a period of ~ about 10 years. I didn't study little snippets of scripture and become indoctrinated. The genocide and things like owning slaves is in there is enough to turn my stomach. "If you beat your slave and he doesn't die in a day or two, then you will not be punished", or held accountable in some versions. This "god" never said anything about that .Why in the fuck didn't
this "god" say, "You can Never own another human?" It's All 100% bullshit. It's poorly written fiction.
Someone who can't tell what is true from what isn't also can't discern the mortal danger of being manipulated by certain highly imaginative forces of evil, unlike those of us lucky enough to be better educated.@@stevepierce6467
I’m feeling the guilt as was a Christian from giving my heart to Jesus at 5…8…(many times in between) properly at 18 then 27 (you know how it goes 😳🙄🫣🫠) At 47 after a few months of being more active in finding out (with my home educating children) and their questions about why we believe what we do, it became abundantly clear and I stepped ‘out’ of the Christian world view, boy oh boy whatever was I doing?!?! I see it now but have my eldest son and eldest daughter still Christian and finding it difficult to understand why I brought them up then when the switched flipped…. 🫠🫤😰😳🤯 for them.
Spiritual OCD is called scrupulosity. I had it as well as a Christian. It's so terrifying because the stakes are so high. Going to therapy for it actually helped me to see how horrible the God that I believed in was.
Could you elaborate bit further? Would like to hear the symptoms and hiw did it make you feel?
I was taken aback by Shane’s recollection of his family’s nightly Bible reading during his childhood. His father actually told 5 year old Shane that yes, if God asked, he would sacrifice own son’s life by murdering him!! In that moment his father became the boogeyman in 5 year old Shane’s mind. So now, instead of protecting Shane, his sister and their mom from the boogeyman, the way good fathers are supposed to do, DADDY IS THE BOOGEYMAN LIVING INSIDE THE HOUSE!!! This turns “Christian” love on its head to become the exact opposite: Satanic. How horrific and heartbreaking?!
Christianity is psychological abuse
It's horrific, but it's also a totally reasonable interpretation of the gospel message. Child sacrifice is the ideal; this is what God did with his Son and what he asked Abraham to do with his son. I know Christians will disagree (and I would have when I was a Christian), but now I have to ask, why was the sacrifice required at all? Couldn't God just forgive us without that? It's really bizarre.
It is a horrific violent cult.
I'm in the middle here. On one hand, having God ask someone to kill their child to prove their loyalty is traumatic, but he didn't actually have Abraham kill Isaac. Everyone takes comfort in that ending, but then I think of Job where he allowed Satan to kill Job's children. Then there were all the children that got killed in Egypt with Moses. You know, I don't even know what to believe.
@@Daviedootle83
Why would an all knowing being need to test anyone ? If they're really all knowing all outcomes would already be known. Including what would happen if a super special tree they're not supposed to eat was placed in the center of their world .
In this case "All knowing" equals
total bumbler , or. total psycho.
Not only are Evangelicals taught that it is a virtue to believe things without evidence (i.e., the Doubting Thomas morality tale), but they are also taught to reject all sources of "outside" information that question the Evangelical version of reality (science, media, government, academia, etc.,).
Just like Jehovah Witnesses. You are not allowed to look at outside sources or anything critical of the organisation without consequence.
You're one of the best interviewers in any genre, by how you patiently and humbly listen, let us listen, and allow the guest to "testify" what he experianced. Asking thoughtful questions and comments sufficiently sparingly.
Thank you so much, I really appreciate your encouragement!
💯 Finally someone says it...Dallasite here....The focus not on is this true, but is this good? I was always appalled at the violence of it all. Intuitively, I could never convince myself that Christianity was real; I was always outside looking in and 'practicing the faith' to fit in, which made perfect sense when I realized decades later it was all made up. I am so sorry to know of your unsafe childhood; I had nutcases for parents, too....Great interview; Thank You
Shane Almgren clearly has PTSD from religion. I have the same PTSD that he has from religion.
It's called religious trauma syndrome and it is a real thing
Shane is a kick. He is so eloquent in what he has to say. Really loved this session. He doesn't stutter and stammer and is so fluid; an excellent speaker. He has his stuff together.
Yes, thoughtful and humorous 😊
Great work Tim. You are making a difference in the world and in the lives of people raised in a sinister, evil, passive-aggressive cult and lucky enough to happen to be curious and questioning by nature. I raise my glass to you! 🍸🥂🍺
That's right. Its magical thinking. Literally, the first Christians believed in the power of magic, charms, rituals, magic words, potions, talismans. It was truly hocus pocus.
And you will live forever and ever.
A ultimate happy little tale of magic
@@FoursWithinhi fours! I’ve seen you over on Ivys channel.
@@marym9245
Well hello. Is it my strange skin color that makes me so memorable ?
@@FoursWithin is it blue? That’s cool.
@@marym9245
Haha. No I was joking but referring to the yellow skinned face of my avatar picture.
Hope you're enjoying the winter festivities. 🎅❄️🎉
Great discussion! You tapped into so many of my personal experiences. I grew up in the evangelical tradition. My family is 95% christian. I am 75 years old. I am uncomfortable, to this day participating in family events, because "the name of jesus" is a central theme. But, as a side note, I reject that the creator of all things is "He". Woman is our portal into Earth. Therefore, if mankind must personify a diety, should it not be "She? (One of many observations that cause them to just tolerate my presence.) Christmas is a dark time for me. Thank you for this platform. I know I am not alone.
Great interview. Well articulated. One of my favorites. Yep... Christians can't tell the difference between knowledge and belief.
That is such an important distinction, the difference between knowledge and belief. And often blurred in the secular world, as well.
I could not stop watching this. Amazing insight from both of you. This is one of the best explanations/indictments of the evangelical worldview that I have ever heard.
Yes, and religion does that part very successfully.
This one was most excellent and thank you for posting it within the Christmas timeframe! Christmas morning for me means a zoom session with 20+ evangelical family members where somebody reads Matthew's account of the Christmas story and we all get to say what God did for us this past year. I survived the zoom call, and then got to listen to this video. Thank you so much~
Good on ya for surviving the Zoom call and having some remedy at hand for after. I admire your ability to keep in touch with family under these circumstances.
My experience is the same...pastor's kid. Literally lived at the church and followed the applause through Christian school, Bible College, Seminary and pastoral internship then my marriage failed and life fell apart but that's what needed to happen. The way you say you relied on your elders to describe your reality really resonates! Thank you!
The perfection part too..ocd....weeding garden, filling ice cube trays when there's one missing....I get it
All the Biblical violence and cruelty taught to us as kids is crazy...
I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation!! I finally have the language describing the difference between belief and knowing. I could never quite put it into words but I knew the word trick, the false use of the word “truth”. This is so powerful! Thank you 😊
I second this
Happy Holidays!🎉 Thank you for the great discussions!
Wow, in the last 30 minutes Shane is really putting a lot of effort to make his point about the necessity to belief and why others within religion are so obsessed with that. And he's right... it's all mental gymnastics. Such a profound realization. Thank you both for this imterview. I'm going to spend my next year without religion! 👊🏼
Shane, in under 10 minutes you hit the nail on the head! “Is it good?” You get a gold star ⭐️ in my book!
I thought I had it bad as a kid. Shane's story about his upbringing really got to me.
Another great interview, Tim! I loved listening to you and Shane discussing all the topics. Well done! Each story is a triumph. Thanks so much for creating these episodes.
Happy holidays! I know it means something different post Christianity, but it’s still a time when everyone is off school & we can spend some extra family time!
Christmas was originally a pagan holiday.
@@athena3865I’m still surprised most Christians don’t know this or don’t care. They’re really ignorant.
@@athena3865 Just what I was going to say! It's a turning point of the astronomical year, people in temperate zones have had holidays about it for a long time. And why not recognize and celebrate these things, the passage of our time among the stars?
When you said that Protestantism is a perverted version of Catholicism. That really struck me; because it’s true. That was what started my entire deconstruction.
It's Catholicism lite, or Walmart brand.
@@TheMahayanist😂
That really is something I find fascinating. The little I know of church history, but to realize Protestantism evolved out of Catholicism, and then whatever belief one now has, is a lineage not exactly be proud of.
@@mikefixac Yes. It can really make one start to question everything..
@@mikefixac And, really, christianity, if it ever existed, died out about 2000 years ago, to be superseded by fan fiction and the words of blatant plagiarists, liars and at least one nutter, none of who had ever met Jesus , some of whom didn't know the area, or Jewish ways at the time, and who didn't write anything until decades after his alleged life and death.
Note, also, that some of the words attributed to Jesus were when he was supposed to be alone, and so no one would have known what was said.
I was raised in the lies of Christianity myself. I understand what Shane went through. When will this sick religious illusion disappear?
The insights from you both are very helpful and eye opening.
So true that you don’t see until you are brave enough to step out and look back .
Absolutely loved this interview
Thank you 😊
This was a very insightful conversation. Thanks to you both. Enjjoy this holiday time,. Find your own reasons to celebrate!
Just love hearing these interviews and hearing their fascinating backstories. You always knock it out of the ballpark with these guests, Tim! I was a bit taken aback when Shane discussed his experience in China. As someone who worked for the US Dept of State in the 1980s and 1990s and traveled all over the world, I was shocked to hear his parents and this organization they were affiliated with actually thought they could get away with proselytizing in China! How dangerous for Shane’s family and those poor Chinese students. I just can’t believe some group would put naive people like Shane’s family in harms way all in the name of Christianity. And they didn’t know their home was bugged? What a horrible “Christian” group this was. I hope it no longer exists. This “saving face” is Chinese culture and not communism. The only reason why his parents did not “disappear” was because of the scandal that would have broken out with the US Embassy in Beijing and the Chinese government… “saving face” had nothing to do with it. They were lucky but are completely responsible for what happened to those poor Chinese students.
Shane you were a fascinating guest. Thank you for your story.
Tim, thank you, as always.
Coming to you from SW Mexico, surrounded by a large evangelical Christian family, doing my silent non-Christmas.
Very best wishes for 2024.🎉
Loved having Shane on your channel. He's very eloquent and quite charismatic. Listening to him gave me some newfound insights.
I don't need to watch this video. I know this video is 100% true. Fortunately I learned to think for myself as a young boy.
Best guest ever! Some guest interviews are long & rambly, following all sorts of rabbit trails. Shane’s interview had me interested for the full 2 hours and 26 minutes.
Another great interview Tim! Thanks for continuing to produce such high quality, interesting content.
For me, this conversation was fascinating. Thanks to you both.
Really great, I thought I'd listen maybe 20 minutes, so far at 55 min and haven't gotten bored yet!
The orphanage story with the broken down milk truck-George Mueller. I’ve heard it too. Seemed miraculous . Or a good little story to tell when the collection plate was passed. I guess we’d have to track down someone who was there.
I'm in Nashville too, Shane. Always great to see neighbors speaking with Tim! Excellent interview, gentlemen. Really enjoyed this!
HAPPY HEATHEN HOLIDAY SEASON! 🧑🎄🌲☃️
This is a fantastic interview. So many relatable events and feelings. Too many to mention. Incredible.
I wish I could give this 100 thumbs up
I had that same type of OCD where I constantly doubted my salvation no matter how many times I accepted Christ.
It's so interesting, because I didn't have an evangelical upbringing, many would call it a sort of middle-road-liberal Presbyterian church -- but I completely understand this. All of Christianity seems encased in the idea that you have to be perfect in order to be accepted and belong-- and since none of us is perfect, of course every time I did something that failed or that hurt someone or that I didn't like, I had the same kinds of doubts. Just a more secular version, but emanating from the same stories.
As to the doubting Thomas story, later Jesus says,
“So if anyone tells you, ‘There He is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here He is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.”
Matthew 24:26-27 (NIV)
So here he says not to believe what people are saying, because everyone will see his return for themselves.
Poor Thomas.
These contradictions always left me so confused.
I love these vids❤
Shane is a great friend and better person!! Looking forward to the interview.
At 1:28:30 or so the conversation about an all-pervasive Christian world feel reminds me of ACS Lewis quote. I used to love when I was a christian I thought was very profound.. I think it's from the weight of glory. "I believe in Christianity as I believe that the Sun has risen: not only because I see it but because by it I see everything else." Now considering that from the outside it seems obvious that of course if I choose (or have been conditioned) to look at everything through a Christian lens, then that's how everything is going to look
Typo - an all pervasive Christian world view*
Precisely ! It is what it is because it is what it is !! This is the "profound" Truth(tm) of religion. Theology is a shortcut to pretending to be smart and a way for people to not skeptically think, in order to say they are smart. (When I go to church, I don't need no stinkin' proof any of what that preacher says is true !!)
Such dumb reasoning... recognized when when "get's out of" religion.
Love this interview. I'll be watching over and over again. I think the person you're referring to who relied heavily on Providence was George Mueller (Muller). I had a book on him called The Treasury of George Mueller.
I find it very sad that this man doesn't think he could benefit from counseling. He absolutely would benefit.
40 years an atheist. Call it religion or cult but it is a distinction without a difference.
I'm still trying to figure out how the God of the Bible hated/dislikes/ sinner man so much that he would've allowed MAN to write His word? Why not have Jesus write it? At least he was sinless, according to the Bible.
Because the Bible is meant for man so it had to be written by man
Plus God hates sin not sinners. If he hated sinners he wouldn't of died on the cross for them.
@@David.L.F. The God of the Bible created sin.
It might be a clue to the idea that the god of the bible was made up by human beings, most likely men. And that the bible was made up by men, too.
Awesome! I too am a former worship leader. Now I dress like Jesus and play worship songs on one of my CZcams channels! Happy Holidays guys! I’m glad we all got outta Christianity alive. 🤟
How does Shane look so young? He looks like he's in his mid to late 20s at the most.
Shane, I think OCD in members of high-demand religions is now called "scrupulosity."
I was hearing all this 'religious' stuff in the 1950's. I'm glad Tim is now hosting a podcast where it is all debunked, however, it is so sad that in this day and time such is necessary. So called christianity is bad for mental health.
Halfway through, not bored yet! 😀
Nice job, Boys. From your ex-Mormon friend.
Just this week I was telling a friend that Christianity is really just a 2000 year old conspiracy theorist group. I never realized how dangerous Jesus was in teaching that blind faith is a virtue. Great interview!
Great talk! 😊😊
My parents also came out of the Jesus revolution and it is shocking how similar my experience was to Shanes. Down to the same practices in our family and things my parents would say, the way I felt then and how I feel now.
"Why do we have to believe conclusions we can't verify."
With every zealot I've encountered their response is dismissive, defensive, dogmatic, and simplistic, and usually ends with the religion's threat statment:
"Cuz the bible sez so, and if you don't agree, you'll be tortured forever."
No other reason required in the minds of Magical thinkers. Because it's what they've been indoctrinated and gaslighted into dogmatically believing without question.
Yes indeed! My brother loves to tell me I am going to burn in hell forever. I texted him on Xmas day to say Merry Xmas and his reply back was a video on “What is the unpardonable sin?” Total brainwashing!
@@user-md6qw6qc9r What a terrible response to a simple merry christmas. So sad, sorry the horrible religion makes these people so mean spirited.
@@user-md6qw6qc9r
That's why I say different things to different people.
To people like your brother I say "Merry War On Christmas", and to everyone else I just wish Merry Christmas. 😏
I've recently been telling people that believing something isn't a choice. Then I tell them, I can only pretend to believe.
Another great interview,❤
Thank you both, gentlemen .
143:35
You've come a long way Tim. 👍
Hope you're enjoying the winter festivities.
It's Christmas day in Oz and a new interview is here. Niiiice Christimas present. Thanks Tim. And a Merry Christmas to you, your family and to Shane. He has some interesting and important ideas, for example, "is Christianity true?" vs "is Christianity good?" I agree. There is a lot about the so-called true story that are yuck, and make little sense.
Now to listen to the rest of the interview.
2:04 what you are saying there, is the space and fresh air I needed as an atheist.
This is exemplary, thank you❤
Wow! What I’m wondering is how and why has the Bible preserved all this time and became insanely read and influential?
Argumentum ad Populum fallacy. Dismissed.
Because a particular political institution preserved it, and if you didn't believe it you'd be tortured. The Church.
Imperialism
Very interesting. Thank you both!
LOL, I'm just adding comments to boost your comment count, but thanks for the synopsis break down in the description 👍
It's okay until it leads to problems for the believer and their family. My sister is a Christian and believes every fad going. The worst is MLM schemes.
Isn't it always going to get in our way and be a problem when we believe something that's simply not true, and cling to that belief? Doesn't that prevent us from living a life of integrity?
Wow. Great show.
Taking notes.. and there are some excellent quotes in this one ;-)
I really like this interview with Shane! One of my favorites on this channel!!
Absolutely!
Never forget for even a second:
It's all about power!!!
Great Convo!!
This is the second time I've watched this interview. I think I need to watch it a third time. Well done interview!
2:10:10 "why do u think it's important to reach conclusions that u can't verify?" (beliefs). Wow. that is the best description I have ever heard for "beliefs," and a fantastic question to engage with theists. I gotta write that one down.... im taking notes here! 😄 Excellent 💖
The curious thing about the insatiable need to answer questions of our origin, meaning, purpose and destination fit nicely with biology homeostasis. It seems most organisms seek a survivable niche within reality by making predictions of where they are compared with the alternative. Predictions, like purpose etc. that have no evidentiary return pose an outstanding stress that needs to be tied off, lest the stress itself become a detriment to stability itself. Lacking that evidence, it would seem natural for the brain to fill that void with anything that eases that stress as a, dare I say it, lesser of two evils. Of course any human derived, fanciful augmentation to reality will generally be self centered, and self affirming so we should expect god beliefs to dominate meta reality.
Fantastic, deeply insightful episode. Thank you for sharing
I love this conversation excellent analysis 🎉🎉🎉🎉❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
His deconstruction story is similar to mine. I did street magic and loved history and science and when you put everything together it just shows the truth and also the ease of misdirection conversely.
You have to be strong to question the thing your life, family, community, support is based on. The source of your identity. Like you said, it is an unquestionable truth to them and only the devil would want them to question the bedrock of their whole world.
For a five year old to live with that level of fear, that he genuinely felt his Dad could come to kill him if God told him to sacrifice him. That’s the same level of fear when you grow up with an alcoholic parent. This is tragic. It shows that literalist interpretation of the Bible leads believers to behave in ways that make their God not a God of love and good but an evil abuser.
For a long while after deconversion I was very afraid of “buying into” other bad ideas. Once I became aware that I had believed something so fully that was wrong, I would stop reading a book as soon as I felt like it might be telling me something that wasn’t true. Stop listening to a podcast if I felt like something that was being said was untrue. I’m just now starting to trust myself to consume ideas without feeling that I have to agree with them or being afraid of being “ brainwashed “ again. Does anyone relate?
This means so much to me!!!! Thank yall
One of the examples of how commandments conflict: For example: if I know I should help facilitate the best possible life for myself so I can dwell on the good things (Philippians), I am also not going put my life at risk on some mission field. A dead me, can’t help others anyway. Do unto others (like your children) who want an alive dad. Which command to obey is it going to be?
This is not the word of the Lord. One of the injustices that really gets me is abuse in the name of the Lord. Don't forget the massive murder of jews at the 'Christ Killer' , so even murder 'in the name of the Lord' can be approved, if someone says it is 'The Lord' that wants them to do it.
Christianity and the bible is a lie, look it up.
I now compare the christian fantasies to the idealized fairy tale memes of chivalry.
They're both myths. Humans live by stories like these, and all deep myths have some deep truth to them. The problems arise, I think, when you start trying to make the myth into a fact, and to re-live the story it tells in destructive ways.
@@sundayoliver3147
I might re conceptualize this in a slightly different way… You hear the myths (fairy tails) , ….and try to embody those myths in your own life, …. But it turns out they were only engaging fairy tales…. Which becomes self destructive as a map for living…. Sort of like trying to Structure your life according to star wars or lord of the rings
I get the thinking process of "is this true" vs "is this right". My deconversion probably lasted 20 years, many ups and downs wrestling with the immorality of the biblical teachings. I began to recognize the differences between my own morals and the "god of the bible" morals and they didn't line up. I was not willing to continue to embrace the immorality of the bible. It became more and more untrue as I stopped trying to make excuses for god, until I realized I was done, let go, walked away and felt freedom. I have no desire whatsoever to return.
What a beautiful description of your journey.
Thanks!
Thank you so much!!
Great interview
I like Shane's last statement about using your mind and figuring out the riddle. Good One.
Great videp
I didnt get much of a sense of who Shanexwas until over an hour in, but i b liked him better the longer i listened. Then a cool reward at about 2:15:30, what if figuring out how to leave Christianity and think better was a test from God?
That reminds me of a saying from, idk, Allan Watts maybe. "It is a great blessing to be born into a religion, but a great shame to die within one."
I love that Alan Watts quote, it feels so true to me.
It would be great to have Shane and Jordan Peterson in conversation.
Its comforting to know im not alone deconstucting from belief systems. I make no claims for myself now. Suffering now aged disabled living w ptsd fearing what i dont know. Afterlife fear yet wanting to exit my suffering. Help😢
RELIGIOUS TRAUMA SYNDROME is real😢
Also disabled, and lived near death for a couple of years, so my report: death feels really friendly; to me, it's just another dimension-- a dimension that won't fit into the tiny confines of a religion devised by human minds.
HA! I have never been a believer. But I have often thought that if it WAS real, that the actual test was being able to break free!
Great conversation, guys.
Merry giftmas 😊
Thank you so much!!
Medal of Honor.
Tim,like you asked god to show up in a big way, i still pray for him to show up for me.
No answer been 6 years.😢