Trebuchet vs Longbow
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- čas přidán 8. 11. 2022
- Trebuchets and longbows were used at the same time in the same places but of course in very different ways, in this film Luke and Louee from History Hit, challenge Joe Gibbs and me to a shoot out. Joe with his 140lbs longbow and me with my bowling ball tossing trebuchet.
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If you would like to watch the History Hit version of this film, please check them out here / historyhit
Joe Gibbs/Hill Billy bows can be found here / hillbillybows
It looks like the king on the first shot was the only target Joe Gibbs hit. Is that correct? If so, it's a very impressive shot given the distance of 140 yards, but it doesn't seem reliable.
HI Benjamin, Yes it was the only strike, but of course in reality at that distance he is not really aiming at individuals, because of course with a 3-4 second flight time people don't stay put anyway. So on one level, the individual level, I agree with "doesn't seem reliable' - it's not reliable on the micro level. However, if that were the King showing there it would not just be Joe, but his 20,30,40? nearby mates who would all change whatever they were shooting at in a heartbeat and with Joes level of accuracy that combined effort would I suspect very often create a macro effect that was very effective.
@@tods_workshop And, of course, there would have been many bow men firing multiple arrows quickly.
@@williamromine5715 Yeah, Joe could have loosed all of the arrows he had in the time took to prepare and loose one trebuchet shot. It was very sporting to have the same number of shots, but if it had been just based on time, Joe would have dialled in his shots and scored more king shots.
@@williamromine5715 And, if Game of Thrones taught us anything, there might even be multiple kings to shoot at.
Joe could also have shot a lot more arrows than the trebuchet could launch stones and he was shooting cold. His group size seemed pretty darn good to me, just a little high.
It's not like a rifle, where you can bench fire a sub MoA group, though.
Tod a lifetime ago I studied Aeronautical Engineering, I have forgotten most of it but some bits stuck. The surface of your bowling balls are smooth so the slightest spin down will produce lift up or a spin to the left will cause lift and a turn to the right, etc. The solution with golf balls is the dimples to break up this lift and make them fly straighter. I think the medieval rocks had a natural rough surface so they never had the problems you are getting. A boring day with a counter sink on a drill press or some other way to rough up the surface could help your range and accuracy problems. Good Luck 🙂👍
How did this comment not get more attention? But ppl are willing to waste time arguing with some guy in the comments who said you could see coming arrows and repel them with a sword.
This is a really good observation and would make a big difference!
This is the only answer that needs to be replied to.
I so want a redo on this based on your explanation!!!
I was thinking from the beginning myself that the smooth surfaces and the finger holes would affect performance.
As a mechanical engineer by profession; I adore your knowledge Tod. You've got a so rare mix of practical and theoretical skills, and also a willingness to share and teach. Awesome video, thanks!
Thanks and I love the engineering and technology of these things, well pretty much anything and this channel just gives me all the excuse I need to mess about
Tod you have probably already seen it, but there is a video on CZcams about a guy building a supersonic trebuchet (small, shooting ball bearings). But it really goes into the engineering and the optimization of all the variables. Super fascinating.
Could not agree more
This was extra fun as Tod went through the entire loading process in detail.
I said it last time he was on this channel, Joe's loosing pose is so picture-perfect when compared to some manuscript illustrations I've seen.
The crane shot of the trebuchet from above is amazing.
Thanks and it was a good demonstration of the loading, but as you say, Joes technique is picture perfect to 1386 or whatever.
Justin Ma's Way of Archery channel has a great video called "The Draw" that explains postures and muscle useage for heavy drawweight archery and explains why Joe's posture is like that. He uses pictorial examples of Joe Gibbs and other historical archers. Joe Gibbs even makes a comment on the video praising the explanation.
@@Intranetusa Cool. I'll check that video out. The tension in Joe's body is very evident as his muscles and bones slot in to position.
@@Intranetusa That was fascinating. Thank you.
That crane shot came out of nowhere and blew my mind
I feel so bad for Tod. He FINALLY got a hit on something, and Joe wins with a headshot.
it touchs the king remember he wears best armour
@@TheMaulam12345 unless the king is richard the lionheart who was unarmoured when shot with a crossbow
no channel fills me with as much absolute glee when i see a new video appear in my sub box as this one, actually grinning like a child at the title
Of course, this is like Man Cave Playyard Level 5000 🤣💪
Boom! Headshot! That was an amazing shot from a war bow. That was also the best the trebuchet had ever done. I can't wait to see more.
Joe Gibbs deserves a lot more recognition in the archery community. What a boss
He's also a fantastic racecar owner!
"This is my little toy bow. No, I don't need a warm-up, I won't break a sweat. It's not my 200lbs proper bow." Joe (probably). Meanwhile my muscles are aching even thinking about 140lbs draw weight and probably couldn't hit an actual castle at that distance. Nice one gents. Neither Joe nor the trebuchet fail to impress when joining Tod's brilliance.
Ended the war on his very first shot.
Legendary.
Congrats on finally getting a hit! As someone who dabbled in archery a long time ago, Joe's shooting was amazing! To get close at that range from cold is an achievement never mind hit the main target! The thought of a couple of thousand of him shooting arrows at you is terrifying!
The pallet armed forces are quaking in their boots thinking about multiple Joe Gibs, they haven't even gotten over the loss of their King yet! haha
The pallet knights are thinking "you killed our king, we surrender! Why do you keep shooting at us?"
There aren't too many people in the world who could do what Joe does, and his modesty is amazing.
It is on par with Tod's contagious enthusiasm about everything!
Dude, never bet against Joe Gibbs's first shot. In the full plate video, he slipped a fatal shot right under the breast plate. First shot here he hit the king. What a badass.
That overhead shot of the trebuchet firing alone was worth watching the video.
Crazy first shot from the archer! I continue to enjoy your trebuchet content, hoping you can dial her in even further.
Its rare that something on youtube can make me audibly gasp.
That is an AMAZING shot!!!
That over head shot of the trebuchet firing was amazing
Joe Gibbs is an artist.
Joe's accuracy on that first shot is on another level.. Holy crap!
Holy what?
@@senatorjosephmccarthy2720 Holy crap. It's when you see shit that you can't believe is real, so you stick your finger in it to confirm and end up making a hole, thus confirming that the crap is now holy after confirming that it's real. It is indeed the holiest of craps, because I myself have checked several times in disbelief.
I think your Trebuchet is doing really well for accuracy, its just that the target requires more precision than maybe irl.
If you target a castle and the shot goes long, it'll land in the courtyard, if it goes even longer it hits the rear wall, bounce back and still land inside the castle.
If it goes exceptionally long it might even hit the top of the far wall, so there is much more leeway for a hit, especially in distance.
Just like in Stronghold. A trebuchet is for destroying fat towers. A catapult is for walls. Archers thin out the crowd before foot soldiers get into the fight
Absolutely ridiculous that Joe can shoot that accurately, at such a flat trajectory, to 140 yards. Simply astonishing testament to Joe and the power of that warbow.
I think that your hit on that one guy with the trebuchet could also have been very devastating to morale as well, since that shot would have taken out a chunk on battlement along with the man and just a couple of meters from the king. Especially since they know that trebuchets aren't usually that accurate. They would have been quaking in their boots. Well played, love the video.
That's one of the aspects a lot of people seem to overlook. When you heave a rock at a section of masonry with the kind of forces that are involved here - whether that's a trebuchet or a skein-powered catapult or a sinple throwing-arm device like an onager - you will get some pretty significant fragmentation. Not just of the rock, but of the battlement as well. A rock of that size hitting a crennelation on a wall will have a good chance of shattering it outright, with some pretty ominous implications for anyone standing nearby. Also don't discount the possibility of being knocked clean off the wall by a nearby impact.
Luck was with you, Sire! You were not hit by any rock fragments! Unfortunately, they moved the manure pile to the other end of the ward last Michaelmas, so you fell onto hard earth. You win some, you lose some, hope you didn't do anything too naughty since the last time you took Confession...
It never fails to give me such joy: "Tod and the Trebuchet"! This was special today because - hurrah! Tod hit one knight with the trebuchet! One for the books! And two near misses, touching the pallet-wall.
As for Joe: words fail me, he surely is the king of the longbowmen. Whenever i see him using the longbow I am fascinated that his posture is repcisely the same as we can see in so many contemporary drawings.
Well done all round - and thanks!
Thanks and glad you enjoyed it
I bet that knight would have preferred not to get a bowling ball in 'nards like that 😲
Once I was a knight like you, but then I got a bowling ball to the knee!
it's just that Joe's height is too small for such a bow, if he were shooting from a compound bow, then he wouldn't have to bend so much
Well if he'd use a crossbow he wouldn't even have to train that much but the point is, he invested all the training needed to effectively shoot a 140lbs English warbow.
Also I strongly believe that his posture isn't due to his size or the size of the bow.
I believe the posture to be a result of bio mechanics.
To control such a monster of a bow the perfect posture is needed and apparently that's what he does after 23 years of training.
What a fantastic drone shot on that third try by the trebuchet!! That's one for the all-time highlight reel.
The drone videos of the trebuchet firing were fantastic to watch! You were SO close to hitting them this time! I look forward to seeing a slow motion capture of when the trebuchet finally hits its target with full force!
Trebuchet: I finally hit someone😃
Joe Gibbs after just waking up, goes for a morning loose and snipes the king: Good one there, not my best but decent👍
Brilliant episode today. Love that you all teamed up. Thank you💖
I feel like what you'd ideally want with the trebuchet is having the projectile impact the ground a number of meters behind the target, so the flight trajectory intersects with whatever you're trying to hit. Even the longest bowling ball shot was still landing in front of the castle and rolling on with a tiny amount of the energy the flying ball would have had. A 10m tall castle wall would be a far more forgiving target to hit, but you'd still need to aim well past it to deal any real damage.
I always enjoy the passion for the craft that shows through in this series. One little thing that cracks me up though, after all the talk about how much work it is loading the trebuchet, once the cameras are away it's poor Jenny we see working diligently in the background (13:35) preparing each shot. The unsung hero.
Tod is truly following in the footsteps of his mediaeval forebears by getting the apprentice to do as much of the grunt work as possible!
I cannot get over that shot from Joe. Just how?!
You hit something! Congratulations :) Those shots were amazing and it was fascinating to see the loading process. Joe's shooting was great too.
I imagine the bow is "An arrow with your name on it" while the trebuchet is more "To whom it may concern".
Hi Tod. So gripping! When I retired I built a trebuchet for my grandchildren to enthuse over. Same style as yours but half the size. It would sling a cricket ball about 55 yds. When we put it on a platform on two rollers, this increased to over 70 yds. Fascinating and fun! Thanks a lot. JC
It’s like Punkin Chunkin but with bowling balls, love it 😂 The trebuchet has featured regularly in this 🎃 chucking contest, launches them a long way, awesome to see!
Tod I think the problem with your Trebuchet is the ammo. Bowling balls are not designed to be thrown there designed to be rolled. There's a weight in the ball that's off-center on purpose. When you throw it through the air it sends it all over the place. If you roll it on smooth ground it can be aimed. It reminds me of a toy I got from KFC it was a beach ball and you put water in a small compartment. When you threw the ball it went all over the place. Next time you use your Trebuchet spoil yourself a little and use solid shot you might get better results. It looked like great fun. I have a question. Did they ever use scattershot instead of one ball. So a pouch filled with many small stones the size of billiard balls creating a shotgun effect.
Do you think one of your stronger crossbows could've made the shot? I'm sure they've got the accuracy, as you've talked about them having fewer variables than bows in an earlier video, but if I recall correctly, crossbows aren't as great for long ranges as bows (I believe Mike Loades talks about it in _War Bows_ ).
Yes it could have made the shot, but the bow itself blocks the view in a way that a longbow does not, so long shots are harder with a crossbow even though they are inherently more accurate. But it could 'make the shot' in the same way that I could with a longbow - lots of chance involved!
Absolutely love your stuff tod!!!
"If it goes up in the air, keep an eye on it and be ready to jump out of the way!" Wise advice :)
Tod, it was a great idea to show you explaining whole procedure to Louee. Sometimes it's worth to bring someone fresh just to serve as an apprentice. Not only it was interesting to learn the small (for you surely obvious) details that are important for the shot preparation, but also got me to even more appreciate how much time and force you spend for every shot! Thank you.
Indeed, as a concept artist that do this kinda stuff for games, it never went through my mind how much labor it takes to fire a trebuchet. Amazing content and mechanism. There’s a reason why this machine is of the favorites of the internet.
I love it when u & Joe compete... Joe's AMAZING with his WAR BOW SHOTS!!!
Great show! Great Joe!
"Let's settle this matter by having our best fighters challenge each other in single combat."
Enemy commander: "ACHILLEEEEES!"
Tod: "JOE!"
Fantastic results love these videos, the work that goes into them is incredible, absolutely fascinating work
Coming from a ballistics standpoint about weight and distance is that a heavier projectile could go further because it will not loose velocity as fast as a lighter one. It would also be impacted by the wind less as well.
Great work Todd and crew. Always good to see Joe too.
Always love seeing the Trebuchet, and of course Joe, in action. Great stuff!
Quality is over the top of youtube, Tod!! so good!
fill in the finger holes on the balls. they say that the dimples on a golf ball change how they fly, maybe the finger holes on the balls are catching the wind more then if they where not there? just a thought
This whole series is wonderful, and Joe is something else..
This was really fun to watch. Tod, you really showed your experience of what to adjust to make improvements. This film really put an all day smile on my face.
I could watch Joe and Todd all day, just brilliant guys all the way.
Great video Todd and the team
Tod, i enjoy watching you have fun, but I really love the massiveness of the arrows.
22:55 for a longbow man that must be one of the greatest compliments to be called a sniper
It's always incredible watching these two war machines work c:
I love how the youg ones whant to make it feel spectacular and Tod and Joe keep it real "what cango wrong? Everything" "The best shot of your life? Is a good shot".Great content,no silliness.
Love it! So very true, we both have a sense of reality before entertainment
@@tods_workshop I believe it comes with working with weapons, you must have a sense of reality, even when you are having fun.
It's so cool to watch passionate people to do their work! respect to all of the production team =)
Very entertaining! Thanks!
Fun stuff! Thanks, guys.
I can't explain it, but I needed this
Great work
something to point out about the conversation at 13:40 , the trebuchet losses far more energy than the bow, the arrow is an aerodynamic flight with some lift capacity, flying low to the ground. the heigher the alttitude the higher the wind speed, so the high arch of the trebuchet contacts more resistance. after that you have to take into account the massive amount of parasitic losses the bowling ball experiences through the magnus effect as it tumbles around mid air, which is magnified by wind speed
The ball is also in flight for longer (dat hang time), meaning it's subject to more total newtons of wind force.
Tod, I've spent the last few hours watching your videos on arrows, armor and trebuchet. This is not an area of particular interest to me but I have been entertained and more importantly I've learned a lot. This was time well spent for me and I thank you for the education and for the time you and your cohorts have spent in researching this data and making the videos.
That was fun. Great video. Thanks guys!!!
Great Video as always!❤
I'm staggered! Loved this episode.
Enjoyed watching the full loading process; I'd never realised from your previous videos just how involved it was. Also at 24:50 seeing that the ball had pushed the pallet-mounted soldier back a good half metre I was pretty impressed. Cheers Tod.
''That's a different film'' .... just perfect
A bowling ball to the knee at a hundred meters would certainly render you battlefield ineffective, even if off a bounce. Absolutely brilliant video.
Thanks
nice info
and good video
Tod. This is better than anything on the history channel. Keep up the good work!
I have built several trebuchets. Once I got them dialed in, I could always reliably and repeatedly hit a target. Their use was in destroying fortifications, not necessarily killing people. Of course, there were also buckets of burning pitch thrown as well, but you weren't trying to hit a person riding towards you on the field.
As far as transport, they were disassembled and hauled to the battlefield in pieces on wagons. They were all assembled in the field. When a trebuchet showed up during a siege, that was the primary target because once it was assembled, your walls were gone and you have lost the battle...
Currently it's looking like the trebuchet is really only good at demolishing larger structures.
EPIC VIDEO TIME - seriously the title is just legendary and I cant wait to see what happens!
That trebuchet shot from above, wow!
That longbow headshot and the trebuchet grouping were great!
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this before but modern bowling balls have offset centers of mass in them to varying degrees. This affects the spin of the ball as it goes down the alley. I don't know if it also affects the aerodynamics of the ball. Think about an empty cargo plane where large group of people are moving around inside as a group in random direction. It would make the plane harder to control.
That was super cool!
Awesome video bro!
This sounds like it is going to be great!
This is the video that shows the real power of the Longbow. Hitting hard at distance.
Louee: what we really need is a fuse in here so it explodes midair.
I like this guy's style!
I just thought of your video on greasing the arrows and how it seriously changed the results of the impacts. Perhaps, if you weren't doing it already that is, greasing the wood on the trebuchet might change the distance of the shots? As always, quality video's and research Tod, you brighten up my day every time you upload!
"Sire, I see a trebuchet and a single archer"
"I can't see them causing much troub-argh!"
Always impressed by how humble both Tod and Joe are while they demonstrate their extraordinary talent and knowledge. Appreciate everything y'all are doing to expand our knowledge and understanding of history.
One of the best things on youtube!
One point not highlighted is that a single archer could have shot many arrows in the time it took to load the trebuchet once. Multiply this by the number of operators in a trebuchet team, & the advantage grows immensely. Great fun, and informative video - thanks guys
Great Video!
JOE! Never disappoints.
Well done chaps! Congrats on your first hit!
15:02 "windy here but not up there". spoken like a true wuffo.
Todd+Joe=Great vid.
Brilliant!
From the drone footage at 14:40 it looks like your biggest source of variance is the release mechanism, the sling only releases on one side and add some randomness to the shot as it slips off the ball. I think if you'd get better consistency with a more symetrical sling design, maybe with three legs, two in the front releasing at the same time and one in the back to keep the sling on the mashine. idk, hit or miss I'm going to keep watching this channel :D
For reasons I have yet to understand, the machine shoots a few degrees off the line it should. It is on a slight slope and that may be part of it.
@@tods_workshop Might be that the throwing arm isn't fully straight, if you look at 11:05 and 14:45 looks like it's leaning to the right a bit when it's upright. At 14:40 when arm is down it's leaning bit to left. Any sort of sideways wobbling of the arm would explain lot of the inaccurasy.
Just incredible that such a flat trajectory for the arrow achieved such distance and accuracy!
You can just feel the energy every time that trebuchet launches something!
This was awesome!! Imagine 100 Joes firing at a time. 🤯 Another thought came to me, at that size of trebuchet your crew is well within lethal range of Joe type archers on the battlements. So much fun guys. 👍
Well if enemy archers were a concern you can set up a palisade in front of the trebuchet to protect the crew.
@@adambielen8996 Thats true, although it would have to be a tall palisade if archers are firing from an elevated position on a wall. I would say build a bigger trebuchet that can fire from out of effective archer range, which is probably why most would be larger than this.
I can't believe I missed this video 4 months ago. Bonus for the night before bed!
What a lot of fun. It's absolutely inspiring watching Joe shoot those giant bows that accurately at that range. Just awesome. Needless to say, it would've been amazing to see one of those trebuchet shots smash thru the middle and take out 3 or 4 defenders, but as Tod says, so many variables. And likely in a more accurate simulation, there would've been a lot more people and things to hit in the vicinity... it's likely at least a few of those would've done some damage, and they'd all be making the people on the receiving end pretty damn skittish while they're dodging flights of arrows from the Joes of their time.
Tod you know what we need now, is an Onager .... I've been waiting for a proper one. Your the man, thank you for everything
Ooooh - I would like to
We need to see Joe and Tod having a round table with some beers talking medieval
Different weapon for different situation. Good to see both of these being demonstrated in the real!
Awesome!
The king would really have appriciated his helmet :)