Bitcoin vs. Gold
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- čas přidán 20. 11. 2013
- With the surging popularity of Bitcoin, Peter Schiff sees another bubble in the making. Peter explains why Bitcoin is not "gold 2.0" but fool's gold. It's modern day alchemy and you are assuming significant risks by "investing" in it. Like a pyramid scheme, many early adapters will profit from bitcoin, but those profits will come at the expense of the losses suffered by those who adapt later.
Bitcoin was around $700 when this video was uploaded.
@@ThePeterDislikeShow There is only one "billion lottery ticket" in the city while before 7 years ago you could buy any amount of BTC for 300 USD.
@@ThePeterDislikeShow that ticket now goes for $20. All worthless paper in the end.
@@ThePeterDislikeShow flawless analogy...
@@ThePeterDislikeShow yeah but only the ticket with the winning numbers get you the billion. Every single bitcoin bought back then is a winner and can be sold for over $60k today.
@@ThePeterDislikeShow the only people that chose the wrong numbers for the buy or sell times is the ones that got fudded out of their positions by Peter and company. Nearly everybody that has bought BTC and not fudded out of their positions by people like you is in the Green.
Peter, you should have purchased a few BTC 7 years ago. This video will age amazingly well. Please never remove it as I plan on checking in every few years.
Never has a man been so wrong in the history of the world.
@@cryptocoinkiwi8272 China is pulling its people out of bitcoin. Don’t think your so wise.
@@championsleague5692 More wise than Peter Schiff at least.
Not that that is saying very much.
@@championsleague5692 and it’s made bitcoin stronger. It can’t be stopped, this much we know by now
@@JimJamJuicy Why doesn’t Buffett want to invest in Bitcoin?
On this day (Nov 21, 2013) Bitcoin was worth $683 and Gold was worth just above $1,200 per ounce. Today Gold is right under $1,800 per ounce and Bitcoin is just above $50,000. Tell me again Peter if Bitcoin in 2013 was closer to the bottom or closer to the top? And what was the better investment?
has he answered you yet?
@@Joe_174 naw he will die on that hill. He will still be in denial when Bitcoin hits $100k. He will just push the goal post higher and higher every 4 years.
I bought gold instead of Bitcoin due to thinking Schiff was right back then
@@americanzombie1802 100x missed opportunity. Sorry Peter led you astray.
@@AX5Terminator yup but thankfully I realized he was wrong by 2020 and started selling gold to buy some btc
This has aged well
1. "Doesn't cost you anything to store Bitcoin"- If you don't go through due diligence and store your Bitcoin in cold storage with encryption, you risk someone stealing them from your online wallet just like I risk someone stealing my Gold if I leave it in my front lawn.
2. "Bitcoin has no intrinsic value"- It might not have "intrinsic value" in the sense that gold has, but its "relative" value arising from properties such as anonymity, decentralized system of clearance, cryptographic trust, predetermined and defined rate of growth, built in deflation, divisibility, low transaction fees, etc which are inherent to the Bitcoin system is far greater than Gold in what is the Information Age.
3. "There is nothing behind Bitcoin"- The mining hardware whose sole purpose is to run the calculations to secure the Bitcoin system contains a combined computational power of almost 5 petahashes. I would say that is a pretty strong backing.
4. "The government only accepts dollars for payment of taxes"- I can't pay my taxes in AAPL shares either. But I can exchange those shares to dollars just as I can exchange my Bitcoin for dollars to pay taxes.
5. "You dont know what Bitcoins are going to be worth next week"- I'm sure you can say the same with Gold. Who knows what the price of Gold will be next week, next year, in 5 years?
6. "People are buying Bitcoin because they think the price is gonna go up." True. The market is full of speculators looking to make a quick buck by buying low selling high, there are speculators everywhere. Not only do I wish they go up in price, but also hold Bitcoin because it is "Programmable Money". Who knows what programmers will be able to do with this? Imagine only being able to connect 21 millions devices in the world together through the internet, I'm sure people would value those connections highly.
Gold is great, but in the coming explosion of people entering the Internet during the next decade, cryptocurrencies will play a huge part in how people exchange value.
with bitcoin you also don't have to worry about "assaying" or transportation or protection...for the most part, if you try to divide your gold yourself, you will not be able to use it anywhere.
For number 5. you’re missing the point. We don’t know what the price of bitcoin will be in the future, it could go to zero. We don’t know the future prices of gold, but it only goes up compared to the dollar (long term).
@@bucsfan2565 soooo, 1-6??
@@bucsfan2565 Anything can go to 0. Gold is in that category.
The intrinsic value of Bitcoin are all of the improvements you mentioned it has over gold. There's value in a secure public ledger, there's value in decentralization, there's value in payment processing, there's value in having complete control over your own wealth. How can you begin listing all of Bitcoins improvements on gold, and not recognize its value!
Because the improvements mean nothing without intrinsic value. Gold is real wealth. It is also used as money. Bitcoins do not represent actual wealth, so they can not be real money. How can one store one's wealth in bitcoins when bitcoins themselves have no wealth to store?
ANY electronic currency can have that value using the same network. Bitcoin is not an exception. Gold is an exception because nothing else can have same properties as Gold.
I don't trust in bitcoin too. One of the RSA fathers wrote a paper on bitcoin and he explains in technical details why bitcoin is not so great and anonymous. To me bitcoin is bits in computer and does not represent any value at all. I study computer science and cryptography so I have some idea about bitcoin to not trust it completely even though idea is very liberating.
MrValentas Because that's how the people in power marketed it to drive up the prices and get stupid people in and there are a lot of stupid people these days.
As i said in the video, paper currency backed by gold was an improvement on gold itself. That did not mean the paper money had any intrinsic value. Its value was in its gold backing.
Fiat money has no "intrinsic value" (as you call it) either. It became valuable by usurping the place of gold - by decree. This led eventually to a world monetary system of fiat which is controlled by governments and central banks. Bitcoin's target is this worldwide fiat money market, which represents tens of trillions in monetary value. Regardless of how badly the fiat system is run, almost all of the world's transactions take place daily in it. That's a tremendous market begging for competition. Bitcoin, not being a government, cannot issue a decree that BTC must be accepted by creditors in payment of a debt or must be paid to tax collectors, or has a denomination of X because we decree the value to be X. In order to compete, it had to first issue valueless tokens. That is exactly what fiat money is if you strip away government control of money and all their edicts which are backed by force.
When enough interest was generated in this experiment, the tokens began to be traded by the miners for fiat money. Thus, the tokens became valuable for exchange. More and more people joined the experiment, willing to bet on the future value as well as the future utility of the token money. As the Bitcoin economy grew, companies sprang up to provide exchange and merchant services, among others. Bitcoin, since it has no recourse to coercion like governments, must bootstrap itself into a competitive niche against fiat money through a market process of price discovery and expanded adoption as a useful medium of exchange. Therefore the price volatility is par for the course. It could not be otherwise with a market-based alternative fiat currency like Bitcoin. Other alternative currencies can issue at par with the dollar or some other standard fiat money, but that requires a centralized issuer. Bitcoin was designed as a distributed network with no single point of failure. There is no Bitcoin company to be raided and shut down. It was purposely designed to not issue denominated currency backed by a single issuer. The issuer is the whole decentralized system which is governed by computer code. The humans involved have to follow this built-in logic in order for the system to work.
Bitcoin is in its early adoption period, and requires speculators who are willing to bet, based on its merits, that it will gain market share and hence value from the world's fiat currencies. The limited issue of 21 million assures that once market equilibrium is reached, Bitcoin cannot be devalued. Sincere investors/backers as well as profit-seeking speculators and miners all participate in this price discovery process while the Bitcoin economy expands. It is not possible to have instantaneous market share or instantaneous equilibrium price against all the other currencies in the world. This process takes time. Money will be made and lost along the way. Similar to how precious metals first went from valued commodies to money, Bitcoin must go from a promising alternative currency to an effective established one. This can only happen, given the design of the system, through a speculative adoption phase.
Actually this is wrong, Fiat does have a intrinsic value because it has some utility, for example If fiat is considered worthless I can wipe my ass with it or burn it to keep me warm.
Michael Herrera those are the only two things I can think of as well
U werent wrong
Great thoughts that have aged well seven years later.
I’m no expert but did this guy heard about gold standard?
Jesus Peter your knew about bitcoin 7 years ago🤣
Hes a permanent bear on bitcoin. Jeezz
I've listened in an enterview that he was looking at bitcoin in the pennies back in '09 insane how blindly or he must be hiding it from us
I'm still an agnostic on the bitcoin issue, but props to Peter for taking all the heat for criticizing it. It's an interesting debate we libertarians should be having.
Indeed
Are you still not sure
@@budgetingstrategies6240 The fact that its price has gone up is no proof of it not being a bubble. I am not sure on the bitcoin issue, though I am mostly a skeptic, if bitcoin starts being used as money (Not a MOE, but money in the sense it's used daily and not only for buying Teslas) then I was wrong, but the regression theorem argument is too convincing to blindly belive in bitcoin just beacuase its price is going up.
@@benjaminandrades8951 ya, it's been a bubble like 8 times, then the bubble bursts and it grows into a a higher value bubble then that bursts and a higher value one grows...
@@benjaminandrades8951 See you in another seven years
Someone needs to record this because I have a feeling peter will totally deny that he was totally wrong on bitcoin in the future.
Peter is going to enjoy being smug about being correct on bitcoin both at the start, and at the peak, just like was right about 2008. Get out while you can and don’t hold the bag.
@@fiable262626 There are people who sold at $1000 in early 2017 from $200 lows of 2014... they probably feeling sick now because it’s almost $20,000 right now.
IMHO It makes more sense to pull out your initial investment with a little extra off the top but keep the rest (the houses money) into cold storage... because $20,000 sounds high but in 20 years it could be $500,000-$1,000,000 each... in such a world, the Peter schiffs of the world would have to adapt to technology or fail.
Yes, the price it's gonna drop like it did in the past. Did you notice that each cycle goes higher??? That is an adoption curve, not a bubble.
Best advice ever I never purchased any btc 8 years ago. ❤ you saved me peter I bought gold. 🥰
The free market will sort it out eventually.
Bitcoin is the clear winner after 7 years
Did u buy
@@savanluffy5223 yup
@@skywatchers9675 yeah u bought btc :)
@@savanluffy5223 no
A language like english is a value to people. Bitcoin is a language for digital value transactions. Something dont need to have "intrinsic-value" (whatever that is) to be a value. Bitcoin will kill gold because Bitcoin is more useful then gold in a digital age. Gold is not practical for shopping. Bitcoin is.
Unless the governmental system makes a global Bitcoin for themselves to use and exchange gold at the end of the year so that all countries can tally up.
truth1901 Competition is great. Let the best coin win.
mughat That is not true. The coin that will win, will be the coin forced upon us by a gun.
It will be very difficult for a government to do that. I don't think they can.
truth1901 It be hard to do that, production and distribution of bitcoins is highly decentralized and highly transparent.
Bitcoin is 49k now while gold is...
Typically the vast majority of comments on this channel are in agreement with Peter's views.
The fact that so many of the comments on this video disagree with Peter makes me think he is wrong on Bitcoin.
Aah the video that dissuaded me from buying BTC at $300.
Luckily got in not long after but damn Schiff thanks for the advice.
Bitcoin is not meant to be the new gold standard. I am currently studying abroad and bitcoin is saving me almost 15% in fees and it only takes about 3 minutes (vs 3 working days). Using bitcoin to speculate is not the real value behind this innovation.
This is awesome. A decade old clip. Peter is awesome!
He's missing the entire point. Bitcoin's VALUE is in its cutting edge technology. Intrinsic value does not have to be something you can hold or make into a watch. Its value is the Bitcoin network.
Let's extrapolate bitcoin.
BitCoin is not a coin. Its a series of zeros and ones generated by a computer.
BitCoin has no market use other than exchange of currency.
BitCoin has more ways than one to be "removed" or "deleted".
BitCoin has no "physical" presence to represent its value (not price).
BitCoin has no free market "usage" (not exchange) to balance price.
BitCoin is a ponzi scheme and it is controlled by the first miners who produced half of the "coins" into existence.
People are not buying bitcoins to trade around for goods and services, people are buying bitcoins because they know they can get more dollars at a later date. A pump and dump.
That's it.
Peter if Gold was valued at its "intrinsic value" (a flawed concept but I'll go with it so to answer you with your own "arguments"), it would not be worth 10% of what's it's worth today. You think people are buying gold telling themselves "at worst I lose 90%" or I'll make necklaces with my gold! People are buying gold because it worked as a store of value in the past. Not because of any intrinsic value. There is nothing to stop Bitcoin building the same reputation and to act as a store of value.
Now the big difference is that people are actually buying and selling goods and service in Bitcoin TODAY. They already outnumber people buying and selling goods and service in GOLD. Points me to a single Subway where you can buy your sandwich in gold !
Truth is your whole business depends on gold, a huge part of your net worth is in gold. And you are afraid. You prefer to lie to yourself (I'm sure you believe what you say) rather than face the truth.
I own gold, not everyone has entered the internet age already. Internet is too complicated, too far for some people from older generations or people in certain parts of the world. I'm not going to sell my gold. I actually think they are ways Bitcoin and gold could be used together. But everyone who owns gold and is technologically savvy enough should also own bitcoin. Bitcoin actually makes much more sens to go with gold than silver. Gold and Bitcoin share the same goals relative to Fiat currencies.
You would better realize this quick. I can also tell you that you are quickly ruining your reputation among technology savvy people. If one understands how wrong you are on Bitcoin, it's hard to give any credibility to anything else you will have to say. That's a shame because outside of Bitcoin you are right on things.
but can you guarantee technology for yourself; once it dissipates bitcoin would dissipate within
Basically, gold is a perfect store of value because it has industrial value. However, Bitcoin is more easily traded between consumers today.
@@donavon2763 Yah now it has value because of industrial use yet the amount of product that contain some element of gold are small compared to its financial instrument use. Industrial use argument is a weak one sorry.
@@bisiriyutajudeen5728 hope you know that like 70% of world gold supply is not in bullion form but in jewelry form? So what about the jewelry industry?
@@donavon2763 Huh? Who told you that lie? Its only a tiny percentage of gold's supply that's used for industrial purposes.
The Bitcoin is really pretty badass. It has no regard for any other currency whatsoever.
ala honeybadger
Nothing has intrinsic value, even gold.
Water?
I always laugh when young people say they want a gold standard. My first question is always do you own gold? They say no most the time without even understanding they would be dead broke the instant that happened. Let me tell you the real history of a gold standard, it is the way bankers steal the wealth from the people. First they start with gold and silver as the means of exchange, next they issue paper notes backed by gold, next they devalue the paper you hold against gold, next they take gold away totally collapsing the system into hyperinflation. The people cry for a gold standard once again as they have forgotten how the game started in the first place. This process takes 80-180 years and has been going on over 1000 years. Paper money was invent by the Chinese. Silver was the main currency of china trading 8 oz of silver to 1 oz of gold. China is the worlds #1 creditor, China accepts bitcoin as payment for homes, cars, food, rent and everything else. The price of bitcoins is moving up and down rapidly as we witness the first free market in our lives. As an economic historian I can tell you volatility is the normal and low to no price fluctuations is a controlled system. America is not driving the price of bitcoins China and Russia are. Also most will not be able to capitalize on the great rise in gold and silver due to the paper markets collapse leads to no markets in silver or gold. When the gold runs out the system will collapse into hyperinflation most of these gold and silver sellers will not let you in on this piece of info. Only 1% of dollars are in cash as the banks will meltdown and bail-in on the citizens. You must divest yourself of the gold and silver before the last leg of the crisis. Gold and silver will be accepted as a currency no doubt about that but just like it is now they prefer digital currencies due to transportation costs and weight.
oh jeez here we go
"First they start with gold and silver as the means of exchange, next they issue paper notes backed by gold, next they devalue the paper you hold against gold, next they take gold away totally collapsing the system into hyperinflation"
Has this ever happened during the gold-standard period in a free market? Where? Serious question. You say you're an economic historian.
Every single time going back to the Roman empire they mix the gold with steel until there is only 5% of gold or silver left, merchants detesting the watered down gold would take the gold to another kingdom to have it reminted. The kingdoms that devalued the gold by mixing it with lesser metals would lose gold faster and faster until the currency bought nothing. The paper notes Peter speaks of actually carried a higher value then the gold devalued by the kingdom as they could exchange it for newly minted gold that had not been clipped or mixed with other base metals. The concept is the same, it has never changed. Also around the year 800 China would issue the paper notes in place of silver and every 30 years the currency would collapse. They did this until around 1875 when Briton demonetized silver at the end of the opium wars. This move also stole the world reserve currency status that China should have had going forward. Hope that helps.
Shalom Dunn But those didn't happen in a free market though, right? I'm looking for devaluations of free market currency. We know governments have always loved to devalue currency.
The history you described is exactly why we desperately need to separate state and money.
I think Peter just sold me on Bitcoins
Bitcoin is failing as money because of the extremely high cost to process transactions and because not enough merchants accept it as a form of payment. Most people who are invested in Bitcoin are speculators and not your average consumer.
@@michaelhuebner6843 10
Years after this video it’s still going up
"You knew if you didn't want gold somebody else would. This is its intrinsic value"
"The only reason anyone wants bitcoins is because they believe someone else wants them"
I see no difference here....
Gold has intrinsic value because of its physical properties. This is both in the sense of its use in jewelry, electronics, etc, but also due to its physical properties and scarcity making it the perfect store of value for human labor. All of that is intrinsic value. Again, gold has been money for thousands of years, so at this point the notion that gold has value is more or less objective.
Sheldon: "I have the Sword of Azeroth! I am the Sword Master!"
Raj: "He's selling it on eBay."
Sheldon: "Wait, someone just clicked _Buy It Now_ ."
Howard: "I am the Sword Master!"
That's Bitcoin.
A 1g Diamond (5ct) = 100,000$
1g Gold = 40$
1g Weed = 10$
1g Copper = 0.7c
15g Oil = 1c
45g Wheat = 1c
150g Coal = 1c
Diamonds and Coal are both made of Carbon.
Point? A smashed computer and a functional computer are made of the same materials, it's the arrangement of the materials that is the source of value. Coal and diamond are both made of carbon the arrangement of the atoms is very different.
You cannot convince a caveman that the pen is mightier than the sword.
- BTC crashing to 10k
- Look at me, I was right!!!
- BTC still 1000% proffit.. Ok Boomer
the main benefit of bitcoin is the low transaction fees. Bitcoin will not replace the dollar because the government will demand you pay your taxes in dollars. Bitcoin is more of a competitor to paypal, credit cards and banks as a way of transacting your money.
Transaction fees are only low if you already own bitcoins. If you have to buy them in order to spend them, transaction costs can be extremely high if bitcoins lose value between the time you buy them and the time you spend them.
Gold never had any intrinsic value as a metal until modern times and it was still valuable simply because it was rare and people believed in its value. If another metal was found with better intrinsic properties than gold, it would still have value. I believe the stage we're in with bitcoin is the same as gold once was before we actually found a practical industrial use for it as a metal
Bitcoins? great for getting people young and old to become financial literate because we all know from the last 5 years just whose interests banks and governments have when the going gets tough. I did economics decades ago and forgot it all coz I had good gigs savings, stocks and got hammered, bit coins have made me start to read up again and become financially literate for myself
he always tries to sell you gold,feels like he has gold
i'll keep my gold
How did that work out for you?
Stupid man
how do you feel about that now??
Good for you boomer
@@Truced well gold was $1,400 year end in 2013. Gold is now $1,900 as of October 2020. Bitcoin was $15,000. It stayed at around $10,000 for a long time. Not it’s $2,000 short of its former $15,000 fake glory. I smell bubble.
Seems like a great way to divert attention from metals so they can be bought at knock down prices.
Nice to see a proper comment on this issue. I was previously quite positive towards Bitcoin, but a proper breakdown like this leaves me sceptical. I'll be the last to adopt this currency, but I hope dearly that it takes foothold in the general population. They've been fooled for so long by the central banks, so why not this? It would solve a lot of problems.
But in the end like Peter Schiff says regular value backed currencies would kill any fiat currency. The problem is neither banks or governments have any interest in delivering this service, and nobody else has the power. So perhaps a shadow bank, some cryptoanarchist conglomerate, could some day grow large enough to be trusted so that people could use their currency. That would finally be the true end of our sham economy.
Regular value backed by currency like you say is the fastest way to go back to fiat money. History is a cycle of using gold as money, using papers backed by gold, then using just the papers as more are printed then the actual gold reserves. Then it all crashes and people go back to gold. Bitcoin will break this cycle.
😂
Had you bought Bitcoin then, you'd be rich
Also, he keep saying value. It has use, and thus it has value. I do not understand this intrinsic value he is talking about when I am a software engineer. It has value, as it has a use. I take it google is useless, and has no value. People cannot wear google, or hold it. What is he talking about? Google is a software tool that allow people to exchange information more easily. Bitcoin is a software tool that allow people to exchange goods and services more easily. That is Bitcoin value.
***** I think gold and crypto currency should compete as a medium of exchange in the market, and people can decide. I personally would place bets with both out of fear over what people might choose. I see crypto currency to be a superior choice for a medium of exchange over gold. Gold did not work in the past as a medium of exchange due to its short comings. People did not want to continue carrying around bags of cumbersome gold coins, and thus started using paper receipts. People soon started expanding paper money beyond gold stocks, and this will happen again. Backing money by gold does not work, as people will always create more money then is redeemable in gold.
I see crypto currency to be the future medium of exchange improving on all of golds short comings. Gold is an old less effective idea for money that has been improved upon by computer scientist.
I'm still confused on intrinsic value of gold.
Dumb yellow inflationary rock.
Peter, can u stop comparing Bitcoin to gold and judge Bitcoin on its own merits and unique properties? No one says you should go all-in into Bitcoin. Just 1% of your savings in Bitcoin would already be a great hedge against a wide range of financial disasters.
bitcoin is capped at 21 million... but the number of cryptocurrencies that can be created is unlimited
I think Peter is right, but I don't think he made the strongest case for why Gold is actually different from Bitcoin. Prices going up and down are consistent with both products and even if no one knows what Bitcoins will be worth next week, we don't know the same for Gold. All we can say about Gold vs. Bitcoin is that Gold will never be worth ZERO, but that's not a big enough theoretical distinction to move most people. I agree though, stay away from Bitcoins and trust in what has proven itself through the tumult of history.
Gold is one of the best conductors and is used in computer chips, silver is next up and way cheaper! 19.84 for an ounce
Perhaps you should stay away from the Internet, as it has not yet proven itself in the tumult of history.
Schiff is correct. Bitcoins and other e-currencies are just that, currencies. They may be somewhat better than fiat currencies because they are private sector currencies. But they are still not money.
Bitcoins, like FRNs, are mediums of exchange, and only mediums of exchange. Nothing more. Money, by contrast, is a THING that has value for reasons other than being a medium of exchange. Even if people were to cease using gold, silver, or copper as a medium of exchange, it would still have value as a raw material.
Bitcoins are not money. If people cease using Bitcoins as a medium of exchange, they will become totally worthless, like every fiat currency that has ever existed in history.
A digital currency cannot be backed by gold, because the gold behind it will be in centralized locations, which will be confiscated.
See e-gold.
Not just digital currency, any currency. PM advocates keep saying that gold/silver retain their value but don't mention that every time gold/silver gain a foothold, governments step in to manipulate it. Gold trade can be easily shut down, a la great depression confiscation, but nothing short of an entire internet shutdown can shut down bitcoin.
His view is warped by the fact that he owns gold but doesn't own any Bitcoin.
Yes or he doesn't own Bitcoin due to his view :)
3 years and 2.5 months later gold price is the same when this video is published.
This is awkward:/
And now it's double the price. You think you're smarter than Peter? Lmao, there are more ways to profit off of gold than just buying and holding it yourself. But you wouldn't know that because you're a bitcoin zealot who doesn't know shit about investing aside from "Buy Low; Sell High". (Btw, Bitcoin still hasn't reached $20k since the first and last time it did 3 years ago).
The only way to make money off of Bitcoin is to either buy it and wait for it to appreciate, or by mining it yourself. Whereas with gold you the ability to make money in numerous ways thanks to derivatives, and the fact that Gold is real and can be made into Jewelry, Medicine, and Products.
@@guillermogutierrez-santana4446 please check the price of bitcoin today
Bitcoin at time of video ~ $740
Bitcoin today ~ $8000
978% gain. with a potential 2550% gain
Gold at time of video ~$1250
Gold Today ~ $1550
24% gain with no other higher potential upside
Thanks for the advice
Bitcoin was $20000 at its peak in 2017 look at all the people who bought at 10, 12, 15K etc and look at them now they went down with the ship and lost money for the same reason they did in 2008 with the housing bubble that is because they saw it as an investment because they have been told it is rather than a medium of exchange that has some added perks due to its decentralised nature. Peter was right.
@@taipizzalord4463 No he was pretty much wrong. If you would have not listened to peter at the time of this video, youd have a great ROI. And its likely youll still have a great ROI today
@@taipizzalord4463 this can happen with gold too
Ahamed Imran It did happen, as in 2011. The price crushed by over 50% I was there. Fortunately I was smart enough to see the high.
@@AhamedImran Let’s see gold hit $20,000 without bread being $20 a loaf... or a full blown mad max.... the gold community keeps repeating $10,000 gold for over 10 years now, you’re lucky you’re even at $1900...
Peter you fail to see that the Bitcoin system a as a whole has value. It makes certain economic activities possible that weren't possible before. It's not gold but it has it's own strengths. I would advice for people to invest about 1 to 5 percent of their capital in Bitcoin. You are so biased because you have an interest in gold. Its up to the market to value the bitcoin system. Its so easy to say its a bubble because every new great thing results in one. You couldnt see the bubble in gold in 2011. Gold and Bitcoin are great. Own both, the latter as the more speculative one.
You're a nobody and suddenly you see the light after bitcoin? Awesome let's follow you.
The Bitcoin Bubble will eventually burst once again just like the other bubbles we have now including the US Dollar one.
Gold is analog, bitcoin is digital.
no way dude
@@koenpostma912 hmm, how comes my man?
was wondering if you think silver is just as reliable as gold? Because i cant afford gold i have been thinking about buying bullion silver... your thoughts on this would be highly appreciated
I hope you bought bitcoin instead
@@aubln_LOL 😂Poor guy...
Lets remember how long he has been wrong
Why is this wrong?
Increasing price doesnt mean he is wrong, dont you think prices can be manipulated by pump and dump startegy
Why does can't this guy (which I respect) connect the dots? The "intrinsic value" of Bitcoin comes from it's network, and it's ability to send transactions cheaply and quickly without the use of a 3rd party. Why can't he wrap his head around this???? Just because you can't take a Bitcoin and make an actual coin out of it, or use it to build part of a cell phone, doesn't mean it has no value!
I would also like to add that I can currently buy almost anything I want with Bitcoins.
Here is the reason: Bitcoin is a cryptographic currency. There is no one stopping anyone from creating more cryptographic currencies such as LiteCoin, BlackCoin, WhiteCoin, PinkCoin etc. etc. Gold is a metal with an atomic number and there cannot be anything else to replace that same metal. Just because there are going to be 21 million BitCoins, doesn't mean there aren't going to be 21 million different types of Bitcoins (Cryptographic Currencies). Makes sense? The supply is endless in Cryptographic Currencies and they are worse than paper dollars because now you don't even have to spend money on paper and ink to create currencies!
The network is what makes it possible to use bitcoins. But that does not mean the coins themselves have intrinsic value. The banking network allows me to transfer paper currency. I can send wires, write checks. That does not mean the paper currency that i send using those networks has intrinsic value.
Peter Schiff
Mr Schiff, then why is Visa worth more than the hypothetical Credit Card company I started last week? It's because of the network behind it.
I respect you, and I believe Gold has it's place (invested in Junior Miners with Great management), but I also believe Bitcoin ushers in a different way of thinking of what is value in this economy that relies on the internet for much of it's workings.
If anything, if you wanted to "invest" in Bitcoin, you're investing in the network which is more powerful that the 500 Top Supercomputers combined.
Thanks for replying.
Facts & Entertainment
Hi Sir. You are correct that a billion different cryptos can be created.
If the network behind them is created and grows enough, then those cryptos will succeed because that is their backing.
You are slowly getting there.
Peter, bitcoin is both a currency AND a payment system.
It is in the payment system that bitcoin has *intrinsic" value.
If some argue about the definition of "intrinsic" value, then replace it with
"it is in the payment system that bitcoin has value"
However, I realize, it also has it to avoid capital control.
Here's a good test to see if something has intrinsic value.
If the world stopping using it as a mean of trade, will it still have value?
Another fun way to determine if something has intrinsic value: if an alien came to Earth, would they consider trading a piece of their technology for it?
They would have no use for a bitcoin or a dollar bill. But they might have a use for gold, silver, or even an apple seed.
If you had bought heaps of bitcoin when this video was posted, you'd be rich today.
If you bought $5000 worth of gold when this video was made 5 years ago. You would be up about 15% right now. If you bought $5000 worth of bitcoin you’d be retiring right now, Peter could not have been more wrong in this video and it actually completely discredit everything about him unfortunately you almost wonder how he can even show his face in public after making this video
Are you trying to tell me that the intrinsic value of gold is $1,300 an ounce. GIVE ME A BREAK! Most of golds value comes its ability to be used as a money. Money has plenty of value as it is the necessary instrument for bookkeeping once contribution to society. Once you put aside the small intrinsic value gold has, bitcoin is the better money even you have admitted that Peter. Unfortunately bitcoin does have some intrinsic value as it it the only way the black market can do commerce without ever the need to physically expose themselves. Look at wikileaks, the Pirate Bay and the Silk Road. Whether bitcoin is trading at 700$ or 10 cents, the black market will still continue using bitcoin regardlessly as there is nothing better for that activity as quick transfer of wealth.
Why do you believe products have value but not services?
Bitcoin DOES have value... it's value is in it's utility and decentralization. Two things that's not built into gold like it is with Bitcoin.
Gold does have money utility and decentralization
Stephen Cacioppo No, gold itself does not process transactions for you. And it is not decentralized in the way Schiff is talking about it, through gold banks as a payment processor.
How is the value that US fiat currency has in being the only currency you can use to pay your taxes with any different from Bit coins being the only currency you can use to pay for goods and services on sketchy black market websites?
Still here 7 years later
Gold has intrinsic value. Bitcoin does not. Bitcoin's only value is as a trendy alternative to current fiat systems. Take away government currency mandates and allow for a truly free market in which currencies can compete and Bitcoin loses all relevance and value. Bitcoin is almost necessarily a black market currency because it's primary value is as an alternative fiat currency that is - for now - more difficult to track and tax. In a free market no rational person is going to trade real wealth (gold, etc.) for fiat currencies or Bitcoin.
And how do you propose we keep this free market free? If we start trading digital gold, seems like a great place for bankers/gov't agents to start manipulating again. Quite profitable to tax too. Sounds like bitcoin has an intrinsic value gold doesn't have. It enables free markets no matter who has more guns.
If a better store of value comes along and gold only becomes worth its intrinsic value, it will be worth a hell of a lot less.
In a competitive market with freedom of currencies bitcoin becomes EVEN MORE IMPORTANT because unregulated individuals can create their own inflating currencies and screw everyone out of value. This is where the decentralised and protocol based nature of bitcoin solves the inevitable problems of what you're suggesting.
Bitcoin is first and foremost a revolutionary technology - it's arguably a technology company which is owned by everyone. Is the intrinsic value in bitcoin the value of the technology?
theoriginalanomaly How do you keep liberty in any form? You fight for it and you vote for it. That's all you can do. As soon as you implement a "system" it's automatically self-perpetuating and it forms the foundation for government intervention.
But you set up a fallacy with your argument about digital gold. Governments are going after Bitcoin now as it is, and it's only rational to assume that they'll continue to do so and likely get increasingly better at it. They go after any form of wealth. Neither Bitcoin nor any other form of wealth will ever be "safe" from those who would pursue it. It's the nature of the beast. And you assume that digital gold will just be some unprotected coding floating around on the Internet. Why can't gold be traded with the best coding technology? Bitcoin doesn't have a monopoly on the concept.
There is no advantage to Bitcoin over gold. The only advantage to Bitcoin is over the standard fiat currency.
RealVinceSamios Your point on "what if something of better value comes along and replaces gold" isn't a point against my position. I advocate a free market, in which currencies can compete. I don't advocate that gold is some kind of sacred cow that isn't trumped. Hell, gold isn't the most valuable commodity of all anyway. It's just the most obvious choice. And in the future, if something better comes along then so be it. I don't care if a currency is based on gold, salt, or diamonds. The point is, in a free market the better currency will win out, and if the market is free and currencies compete, there would be no point to fiat currencies. And if there are no fiat currencies, there's no point to Bitcoin because all Bitcoin's value is tied up in being an alternative to fiat currency systems.
What we're arguing here isn't whether or not gold should be the currency, because that isn't my position. I do argue that gold is an inherently better currency than Bitcoin, but that's only because Gold is just one of the best commodities and the most obvious example to use. But, virtually any commodity is preferable to Bitcoin because commodities represent real wealth. And durable commodities are the natural basis for currency exchange... Because they're durable and durable commodities are preferable for maintaining the stability of a currency value.
You say Bitcoin is a revolutionary technology. I will agree that it is a technological advancement. But Bitcoin doesn't have a monopoly on its concept. What's to prevent an exchange in commodities whereby they use sophisticated coding to trade commodities in digital values? You see, Bitcoin then becomes pointless, because there is no reason for a rational person to trade commodities or labor for an unbacked digital currency when they could trade for commodities with real value.
Seriously, would you trade 8 hours a day for 5 days a week for Bitcoin pay, or for commodity backed digital pay that was just as secure? It would be absurd to take Bitcoin when presented with this choice. You see that don't you?
RealVinceSamios "If a better store of value comes along and gold only becomes worth its intrinsic value, it will be worth a hell of a lot less." This is a great point, and it's the one argument against currencies which have intrinsic value. When a commodity is adopted as a currency, the demand goes up and inflates the value.
I think the trajectory for Bitcoin is once the free market defines a fair value it will be stable enough to be both asset class and something you can spend if you want. Its like saying I have a store of gold I can also directly purchase things with eventually in a fungible deterministic way ...Or just be a store of value that happens to have options available
8:22 "bitcorns" pete schiff is such a troll
Peter, it's not "intrinsic value", it's "non-monetary value". There's no such thing as "intrinsic value", as the founder of Austrian economics Carl Menger stated, "value is therefore nothing inherent in goods, no property of them, but merely the importance that we first attribute to the satis- faction of our needs".
Peter forgot one crucial part about bitcoin...bitcoin miners are what secure the blockchain.. the blockchain is also a open ledger... thats the value of bitcoin.. its distributed nature that allows for high security and high transparency... if some one was tying to manipulate the value of bitcoin, say with huge volumes of cheap bitcoins being dumped on the market... you could look at the blockchain and see it was happening , anyone could if they wanted to. its open source currency. Any one can mine bitcoins, anyone can look at the blockchain and see every transaction made.
BTW, I own gold silver and crypto currencies of all sorts... Diversify!
"say with huge volumes of cheap bitcoins being dumped on the market"
Unless they break several technologies that are a critical part of a lot of things (including online banking) they're going to have to buy those first.
BlueRavenGT yes, but they have one of the top largest wallets on the planet at this point, after stealing Dread Pirate Robberts bitcoins.
Even though he seems well informed about Bitcoin, there are many contradictions:
1.) If gold was really mostly used for its intrinsic value, why was is then stored at a gold smith's safe. Furthermore, since the global amount of gold cannot be verified by everyone, more bank notes can be printed (which was done as history showed) as gold exists. With Bitcoin I can always verify the global amount and have full control over it, not through worthless sheets of paper but by direct control. Additionally, what people need to understand and why I think Bitcoin is especially important, is that for a government it was only possible to finance big wars by breaking the gold standard. With Bitcoin this cannot happen, since we have no need for a centralized authority to issue sheets of paper or numbers in an intransparent bank database as we have today.
2.) About the volatility. I'm 100% sure, that if the use of gold as form of currency was first used a few years ago, its volatility would be also enormous.
I don't recall exactly whether he said gold was "mostly" used for its intrinsic value but it is not hard to see how gold has uses that bitcoin can never replicate.
Gold is wildly used as jewelry, for the production of various electronics, and for medical purposes (a few off the top of my head). Bitcoin serves none of these.
Another issue that quickly arises from bitcoin is the threat of hacking. I am no expert on the issue but I have a firm belief that if it is online, it is only a matter of time before someone cracks it. It will lead to a "secure wallet" system, a rise of banks.
Also, let me point out that bitcoin, simply because it has a set, easy-to-see amount, does not mean fractional banking can not be applied on it! A "secure wallet" (bank) that stores 100k bitcoin can easily lend out more than its worth, given another bank accepts it (IOU). It will simply be a repeat of what happened in the past. Granted, we know the total amount of bitcoin in circulation but do we know how much bank A or B has in it's "coffers"?
I see bitcoin as a potential base for future e-currencies. I just don't think bitcoin will be "THE" coin, much like gold isn't "THE" commodity and like the US Dollar isn't "THE" fiat currency.
Perhaps as the millennial start taking control of the world in 20 or so years time we will see a powerful shift in currency standards. Only then will I be willing to invest long term in any of this.
Nick Nicz Your best bet is to search "Andreas Antonopoulos" on youtube. He is by far the best educator on crypto currency.
Thank you Peter for allowing us to finally hear about bitcoins from a person who knows what he is talking about :)
The blind leading the blind
He doesn't know jack sh*^t about bit coin! His gold business is threatened by bitcoin and he is scaremongering! That is all!
yeah he missed a good profit with bitcoin 😉
@@tooraj Yeah his business is definitely hurting alright, with Gold doubling from its 2017 price, his gold fund is totally suffering due to bitcoin (which is still down 50% from all time high).
@@guillermogutierrez-santana4446 yeah, really very funny me. Comedian, cherry-picking numbers to compare! How about you compare Bitcoin and gold prices from 2011, or 2015, 2016, or 2019.
Intrinsic value is nonsense
Put yourself on an island with only two people and one has a bottle of water and the other has a bar of gold.
what has value? The value is given by the person, not the object.
CZcams then must not be worth anything, air must be worthless too.
Value is DERIVED by humans, not objects.
This is probably the dumbest comment I've read on the subject.
"Put yourself on an island with only two people and one has a bottle of water and the other has a bar of gold.
what has value? The value is given by the person, not the object."
- Both have value. In context, if you're on an island and are thirsty, then you'd likely prefer the water bottle, but once you have basic survival then the gold will become attractive.
"CZcams then must not be worth anything, air must be worthless too. "
- CZcams is worth whatever the highest bidder is willing to pay. However, does it have intrinsic value? I don't think so. If everyone stopped using CZcams it would be worth very close to, or zero. You've confused market value and intrinsic value here.
- Air is not worthless, it has market value and intrinsic value. Just it is not scarce to support high prices, unless of course you're climbing a mountain or deep diving.
In your first example you've conflated 2 commodities in an extreme case of survival, and in the second example you've conflated market value and intrinsic value.
Peter, I'm a big fan but I don't think you see the whole picture.
1) Bitcoin is not meant to be Gold 2.0. Take your mind off gold for a minute. Bitcoin and other crypto currencies are a new unique asset class, with unique properties, leveraging the power of the block chain, a decentralized time-stamped database, secured by the collective computing power of all its 'miners'.
2) Gold certificates or gold-backed e-currencies would not be immune from the abuses of fractional reserve banking and/or bullion-bank runs. Also, there's an overhead in making sure the gold you're getting is not counterfeit.
A Bitcoin wallet balance on the other hand is instantly verifiable and authenticated by the strength of the ever-growing network.
Search youtube for "Andreas Antonopoulos" to see some insightful and intellectually honest interviews on Bitcoin and other crypto currencies.
Love everything Peter says, and he could be right about this. But something tells me that since his euro pacific business sells "precious metals", he's scared that the Bitcoin will take over his business and become the new thing.
They don't "create" bitcoin, they are already there and a limited supply.
I don't know much about either really, but what happens if Skynet becomes self aware and the grid goes down? Will bitcoin exist anymore if that happens or do you get little usb receipts for your bitcoins or something? I'm not sure if John Connor accepts bitcoin....or gold..Is bitcoin accessible in third world countries with no network infrastructure or is it a developed world thing only?
Nothing, NOTHING has intrinsic value. Gold doesn't have intrinsic value, gold has alternative use value. Gold is useful as a currency and it has a value as a utility. Gold can be worn as jewelry and can be used in industry to produce other goods.
***** No, what Schiff means is that the only way for a commodity to become a medium of exchange (money) is that it has "alternative use value". BitCoin does not have alternative use other than trading, BUT IT DOESN'T NEED to have that.
Bitcoin was being used for gambling and drug deal accounting as an alternative use.
Bitcoin also has the alternative use as a universal asset register via technology such as colored coin.
mulimotola44 I disagree in many ways. Currency doesn't need to have "alternative use value" to be a currency. It is simply a place holder for value.
value as an alternative use is simply an added bonus or insurance against default.
For example, if you use cars as a currency to trade with Jeff and Jeff no longer exists, you're stuck with the cars. If the cars didn't have an alternative use, you'd have to find another willing party to exchange the cars with for other goods and services. But you can also use the car as a car or break it down and sell it's parts or melt it down and sell it's materials. This is an added bonus. Even dollars have an alternative use, they can be recycled into whatever you can use cotton-paper for.
Shahe You're being too literal, and not enough practical. Because practically, I can sell the car in your example to anyone, as long as cars are needed by humans. Likewise, as long as Internet trade is needed by humans, BitCoin can be used.
Almost nobody is going to break down a car for its parts, or create something out of the dollar papers after it collapses. *Practically*, people will need a medium of exchange in order to keep trading. And a deflationary currency is better to trade with.
mulimotola44 I don't discount the utility or value of bitcoin. I see it as a currency. I just hate the whole "intrinsic value" argument. It's stupid.
Peter, you are right in a way, but people are accepting bitcoin and therefore giving it value.
In the age of internet and interconectivity, new currencies and money systems will emerge, bitcoin might be only one of them. Shure, gold will keep value for long time to come, but alternative currencies are emerging and some will stay.
People are not accepting bitcoin, they are risking their current income in hopes of making 1000x that amount. Bitcoin is never going to be a currency unless you plan to live in cyberspace your entire life and not have the world governments coming after you
Gold lost 90% of it's value before in inflation adjusted terms; it can do it again. What's backing gold? Some tiny industrial demand?
soylentgreenb Umm have you checked out the price of a wedding ring lately.
Try asking a woman to marry you and hand her a piece of cosmetic jewelry.
Your video is so good hope you get better and better!!
Gold can't be traded over an electronic system in a matter of seconds.
OK, this is the key to this whole argument...its semantics. Instead of using the word "value" you should use the words "utility" and "price". Gold has both utility and a price, so does bitcoin. The utility (why I would want gold) and the utility of bitcoin overlap. They are both scarce, fungible, durable and hard to counterfeit. Gold has the additional utility of great conductivity, and history. Bitcoin has the added value of being easy to store and transport, being decentralized (which gold has if you actually have physical gold at home) and being pseudonymous (ditto for gold if physical).
The key difference is that people are conflating not only the term "value" but also not appreciating the difference between physical gold and paper gold.
Bitcoin solves a lot of the issues that caused paper gold to exist, due to the inconvenience/friction of physical gold
I'm a little surprised at how few people understand the concept of intrinsic value and why Bitcoins haven't any. Take away a Bitcoin's ability to be traded and it becomes worthless. A dollar bill has more intrinsic value than a Bitcoin that is artificially valued at $600, because a dollar bill has worth beyond it's arbitrary value as a currency. You see, you can burn a dollar bill. It can be used as a fuel to keep you warm because ultimately, it's just paper. Bitcoins, ultimately, are just 1s and 0s on an anonymous hard drive. They have NO use beyond the artificial one they were intended for. You can't eat them, you can't burn them and you can't hammer them into pleasing shapes. They are nothing but representations of value and not valuable in and of themselves.
Now go ahead and feel free investing in Bitcoins if you want. Just understand what it is you're buying. Don't assign it a level of value that doesn't exist and can't EVER exist.
Your argument is that dollars are more valuable because you can burn them for warmth? Come on, if I'm in a scenario where dollars are worth that little I'll be chopping wood not burning currency, this is such a weak argument...
Yeah well, the ability to be traded is intrinsic value.
opensprit The ability to be traded is derived value. But to be fair, virtually all of the value in gold and traditional currency is derived value, so knocking Bitcoin over intrinsic value is rather foolish.
I think Bitcoin's fledgling economy is it's intrinsic value. It has the ability to create bonds, equities, smart property, assurance loans, and much more that we haven't implemented yet. All of this without a central authority and no counter party risk because it's all code.
The intrinsic value of Bitcoin as a medium of exchange is how cheap the transaction costs are, privacy, etc.. But that can be replicated by any other cyptocurrency - Litecoin and the like. So in the long term competition will hurt Bitcoin. But yes, like the dollar Bitcoin will eventually go to its intrinsic value, 0. It might take longer then the dollar but it will still go there.
The average investor doesn't care about what someone else can do with gold. They care about decentralized, digital, trustless, useful money that they can actually spend and make interest on.
Let's compare what an average investor can do with their gold vs what they can do with their bitcoin:
Bitcoin
1. You can make good interest on bitcoin.
2. You can use bitcoin as collateral.
3. You don't have to worry about huge chargeback fees from the stuff you sell online.
4. You pay bitcoin's tiny transaction fees instead of Paypal's massive fees.
5. You can donate to anyone in the world and you don't have to worry about it getting blocked, like when people use Patreon.
6. You get your money fast instead of waiting 3-5 business days.
7. You get to be your own bank so no more worrying about bail ins, bail outs, bank runs, bank holidays, banking hours, and long bank wait times.
8. You can go anywhere in the world with as much money as you want without the government bugging you.
9. You can send money 24/7/365 with no downtime at all.
10. You can sleep easily knowing that bitcoin is unseizable, immune to corruption, and has an unchangable stock to flow.
Gold
1. Paperweight
1. You can make 10% interest but that is in bitcoin so at the end you can still be at loss
2. You can't use bitcoin as collateral, no bank is accepting it
3. Are you referring as a seller that Visa charges 2% from the price? If the case, you have this with bitcoin also, it is called paying tranzaction fee.
4. Average Tx fee is 3$ for bitcoin, quite big if you do small buys, but small if you are a whale
5. You can donate USD, EUR etc as well, almost no bank is blocking it. It needs to be a sensitive amount thou
6. Wrong. You get your bitcoins fast, in few hours. But the money (aka USD, EUR) will still take few days until exchanges confirms the withdrawals
7. It also means, no guarantee in case you lose the keys to wallet or it gets stolen. No security when you buy from dodgy shops (cant get bitcoins back), sell on dodgy exchanges.
8. The government is not bugging anyone has 100k or several millions in bank. It may bug you if you dont pay taxes, but that's your fault.
9. Again, you send bitcoin / tokens value, not money. It can be used to buy unless its withdrawed and still could take days.
10. It is sizeable if you use it illicitly, can be used for corruption.
@@SuperTheLycan This debate is about bitcoin versus gold but it sounds like you're in favor of fiat.
1. Bitcoin is money. You can spend it at many websites like Overstock, Newegg, Shopify, and of course SchiffGold.
2. There are many crypto banks accepting bitcoin as collateral: BlockFi, Gemini, Nexus, Celsius, and more. And in the future traditional banks will too.
3. A scammer can buy an item from you online and claim they never received it. Then the scammer files a chargeback to reverse the transaction to get their money back. So the scammer gets the item and the money. Bitcoin transaction are irreversible.
4. Transaction fees are tiny on the lightning network.
5. Blocked transactions are a bigger problem than you think. In the future the problem will get even worse. Nobody should be able to block your transaction. And what about sanctions? The United States just cuts entire countries out of the financial system. How is that OK?
6. You don't need dollars because you can buy millions of products online with bitcoin. Plus, you can get a credit card from the crypto exchange so you can sell your bitcoin and instantly spend the dollars.
7. You shouldn't be your own bank with all of your money. Just the amount you feel comfortable with. And you should spend dollars at dodgy shops in case you need to file a chargeback to get your dollars back.
8. This isn't about not paying taxes. You should have the freedom to take as much money as you want anywhere in the world.
9. Bitcoin is money with no downtime. That's a huge improvement over the current system where the banks close every weekend and holiday. And they have system outages.
10. Bitcoin is unseizable if you self custody. Immune to corruption means that nobody can change the rules of bitcoin. Like the 21 million coin cap for example. The gold standard was very corrupt because the authorities print as much fiat as they want anyway. And the current system is even worse.
thank you for putting some logic to this madness. i also think it will inevitably be a bubble but who knows if this is a high or low point because there is no upper bound.
Yes it was around for 300usd when you put that comment, now crashed price is 30K
Lol pen is
Schiff is correct.
Many Bitcoin enthusiasts are well-intentioned and otherwise shrewd libertarians. I like them and respect them. Unfortunately, they are dangerously deluded on this particular issue.
They cite the Austrian economic precept that "There is no such thing as intrinsic value." Austrian economics, which argues for "subjective value" does indeed say that. But Bitcoin enthusiasts are misinterpreting its implications.
Gold (and silver) as Schiff correctly notes, are "luxury commodities." This provides them with a "value floor." Come hell or high water, they will always be worth something. They will never be worth nothing.
Bitcoin does not have this. Bitcoins are merely electronic IOUs. They are warehouse receipts without anything in the warehouse to back them up. They are worth nothing at all. Zero. Zilch. Zip.
Bevin Chu very well said 👌
Does the intrinsic value argument extend to folks accepting Bitcoin as payment for goods and services? If so, it shouldn't matter that it's not shiny. If the general population desires Bitcoin as a medium of exchange, is this not the only thing that actually matters?
The intrinsic in "intrinsic value" means that is has value APART FROM being a medium of exchange.
Another way to see it : when gold stopped being a medium of exchange, its value didn't go to zero, that is because it has "intrinsic" value. If Bitcoin stopped being a medium of exchange (if for example it was made illegal for any business to accept Bitcoin and for any bank to allow Bitcoin trading website accounts) where do you think its value will go to?
Sure, but does it matter is really the question?
Lysander Spooner Sorry I missed the entire second part of your reply. That does make a lot of sense.
The classic trade off between risk and profits.
Listen to this guy if you wanna stay poor.
iNtRinSiC VaLuE 🤣
Ram memory used to be as good as gold back in 1990. It was scarce, easy to transport and was universally desired. I traded it for everything from cash to a new 6 to one header and a supertrap. Good as gold until it wasn't.
Peter has gone back on his argument about bitcoin divisibility because he thought he could sling some bullshit and it would stick. In a world of math, it won't.
He should just admit he's worried a lot of Gold investors will switch to bitcoin. I can tell you this, what he's really doing is downplaying bitcoin, for now and once he's moved enough money into it, he'll suddenly have a revelation about it.
Always trust the money and never the man. What does he have to gain from saying what he's saying.
Peter Schiff doesn't seem to understand that Bitcoin *does* have more intrinsic value than gold. Being able to encrypt money against theft, bring it on you everywhere in the world, invisibly, being able to send money overseas, being able to share ownership of money with complex contracts, etc. are very useful features of a payment system. Also, Bitcoin money supply is even more predictable than gold. We don't live in the past, we live in the present. Gold is only worth because of its history and because it is scarse, but it can barely be used as money today and most people can't do anything of it, there's few industries using gold and nothing really backs the price. In short, gold is pure speculation too and the only advantage it has over Bitcoin his its established position.
Over $19,500 and climbing...
I know, ha!?!? I mean I'm foaming at the mouth with FOMO because I didn't get in when it was just a penny. I could have been a bitcoin billionaire by now. Up until all of that fiat money is taken from you amatures when all of the Bitcoin wales (90%+ of bitcoin is owned by 1%) decide to dump it.
Also what happens to your access when the internet goes dark. Great Vid.
If the internet goes dark I think you should worry about food and water...
hhhhhhhhhhh
I am a supporter of bitcoins, but bitcoins are clearly not gold. I would like to see bitcoins work in conjunction with gold.
For once, I don't share Peter's view.
First, only a fraction of gold is being held for a real-world use in jewellery or elsewhere. So is bitcoin.
Second, yes, people hold bitcoin to spend it at a later date, but not as an investment to dump all at once. If only a fraction of the world's M3 would be converted to bitcoin, its price would rise by a multiple of today's price.
Third, in order to use bitcoin for commerce, no one needs to be exposed to fluctuations in price. One can just use it for executing payment transactions and then immediately sell it, avoiding any price swings.
Peter needs to update his knowledge of bitcoin.
Watching this new year's Day 2021, BTC $29600
If the grid goes down for any reason, or an EMP went off your Bitcoins are destroyed. Cash and Gold would remain in physical form. Way too risky. Besides Litecoin and others will come up and compete with Bitcoin. Eventually you will have 100's of virtual currencies competing. We live in interesting times.
The entire internet would have to be destroyed for bitcoin to be taken down. You should have paper wallets or brain wallets to prevent the loss of your private keys due to computer malfunction.
If even one copy of the blockchain survives *anywhere* in the world, the whole thing can be restarted where it left off.
So, what is the intrinsic value of gold you are talking about? I know some specific uses for gold but I want to know what it is exactly you are thinking about.
***** I completely agree with you Tommy. I also believe that the industry could use alternative materials that might make those chips or products more efficient. In fact, the amount of gold inside chips has decreased a lot in the last 20 or 30 years. I tend to believe that the use of gold in high tech industries might have been moved by the necessity to give intrinsic value to the gold.
Now there is more research toward increasing the amount of gold in some tech industries and I have a feeling that this research is highly funded by the owners of most of the gold.
Only time will tell if bitcoin is a good investment..........
Peter's most telling point is that we don't know if Bitcoin will be here five years from now - crypto / math advances, government action, some killer app that is superior than Bitcoin for on-line transactions - gold has been here for millennia and is set for more.
*****
Then why are the central banks, particularly China, still buying gold like it's going out of fashion? Also, it's hard to imagine why gold would lose its value for ornamental purposes. "Technically" doesn't cut it. Crypto-currencies may become the dominant medium of exchange, not the same thing. Government action could kill Bitcoin tomorrow. Would you risk going to jail for "actions in support of terrorism" (yes, UK really has a law with that catch-all clause in it) if using Bitcoin was defined as such? - most people wouldn't.
I think what Schiff doesn't quite understand is that a fiat currency which cannot be whimsically inflated can operate as a currency just fine. I would ask Peter this: "If tomorrow, for some magical reason, the Fed couldn't print any more dollars, and could only maintain the current amount, would the paper fiat Dollar be a sound currency?" And I'd bet he'd say that would be a sound currency. But that is precisely what Bitcoin is. It's a non-backed currency which cannot be whimsically printed.
Can you make an update video about Bitcoin please
The intrinsic value of Bitcoin is it's convenience in facilitating transactions at a distance better than anything ever created before. People value convenience. It's the basis of our economy. Convenience is the only thing people value anymore. That is why bitcoin will take off.