Immortality, Religion, & the Search for Life | Dr. David Kipping | EP 463
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- čas přidán 7. 08. 2024
- Dr. Jordan Peterson sits down with the director of the Cool Worlds Lab at Columbia University, Dr. David Kipping. They discuss the likelihood of finding life elsewhere in the universe, what it means to be a Type I civilization, why Mars is our best chance at interplanetary expansion, the comparative rarity of a solar system like ours, and science fiction concepts, such as the Dyson sphere, which may one day become a reality.
David Kipping is an associate professor of astronomy and director of the Cool Worlds Lab at Columbia University in New York City. He has published over a hundred peer reviewed research articles, spanning the fields of exoplanet and exomoon detection, astrostatistics, astrobiology, and technosignatures. He is also an active communicator of science through his popular CZcams channel Cool Worlds.
This episode was recorded on June 28, 2024
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- Chapters -
(0:00) Coming up
(0:24) Intro
(2:05) Are we alone in the universe?
(6:32) The Fermi paradox, the flame of consciousness
(9:48) Why scientists don’t like the idea that we might be special, the weak anthropic principle
(12:45) The experience of the observer, what other forms life might take
(17:03) The mediocrity principle, the most common types of planets in the universe
(21:34) Why look for life on Mars? If it’s anywhere, it’s everywhere
(25:12) Civilizational types: where we rank
(29:29) The study of exoplanets: how we find them and what they tell us
(37:00) Delayed acceptance, what proved their existence it in 2000
(38:20) Why are “mini-Neptunes” the most common planet in the universe?
(42:03) Our solar system is not the universal template
(43:23) The religious axioms present in the search for life, Grok
(47:06) The overlap of the conceptual and physical heaven
(50:08) The fear of annihilation and the hope of being remembered
(53:21) Dyson spheres: what happens when we become a Type II civilization
(57:06) The possibility of using all of our resources, the limits of computational power
(1:00:45) Would an advanced civilization willingly enter a simulation?
(1:02:57) Immortality and the matrix: Dyson’s eternal intelligence
(1:04:27) Time’s arrow, Hawking radiation, and the heat death of the universe
(1:10:18) We might have disproved the Big Bang
(1:15:44) Dark matter and dark energy
(1:23:26) Quantum theory has disturbing implications
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I am just amazed when people can speak so eloquently extemperaneously on complex topics. Really a brilliant individual.
Damn, havent watched JP in a long time, but Dr Kipping definitely deserves a full episode! Cool Worlds!
! He is the man! Love that channel.
Dr. David Kipping has one of the most amazing CZcams science channels!
I love how intellectually chellanging this is. Such a gift to hear this for free!
I'm having an EARgasm.
sometimes i feel they dont know exactly what they are talking about, but since i know even less, its very entertaining
Dr. David Kipping is GOATED. Best communicator!
This is the most unexpected collab I've ever seen....but I'm here for it!
HAHAHA when i saw the thumbnail I thought "This is not a cross-over I was expecting."
An interesting cross over indeed
Did a double take, hard. But ya, wouldn't miss the interesting combo.
The understanding in higher ages was that there were fourteen versions of the human; to a uniquely human prototype, in a universal cycle. Maybe the aliens were here already or started it all on earth. The likelihood that other planets are inhabited may be the case. If so, their environment would be supportive to whatever form of life that they are.
There appears to be an intelligence that fine tunes for life, and its needs, so it may arise and flourish. Darwin is likely wrong; humans evolving from a different species, not from its own prototype is speculation not science. Maybe our prototype is a five pointed star having five points, or extensions, from a center, as the human does.
It has also been thought that we are the microcosm of the macrocosm; a miniature of the universe as a transistor radio is of a boom box.
I have been subscribed to Dr. Kipping's Cool Worlds channel for a long time, same for Dr. Peterson. I never thought to see them both on the same video.
It's nice seeing Dr. Kippings willingness to spread science to the dogmatic.
As a non-scientist I still found this really interesting. All I can do is look up at the night sky in awe at the beauty and mystery of it all, knowing how it stands above all the dreadful things humans are doing to one another. Just looking at Saturn through a telescope years ago was mind-blowing, knowing that it is about 840 million miles away. Jupiter is wonderful too, helping to keep asteroids away from our planet. I do feel there are other life forms out there somewhere. Thanks for posting this thought-provoking discussion.
I'm always listening to Cool Worlds, Event Horizon, Fraser Cain, Sabine, etc. I like to think my scientific literacy is improving, if only by a little. I just enjoy the heck out of their conversations and videos.
Peterson’s ability to discuss topics on such a high level that are so outside his professional field of study is amazing to me. What a brilliant man who can ask such relevant questions of experts in such diverse fields!
The inverse to a NPC
The most unexpected combo. More guests and topics like this please!
Without the logos at our center, the rest is just window dressing.
Sad to see this isn't getting as much traction as I feel is appropriate for such a great collab, hopefully it doesn't discourage more such content
Love you, JP. My life has been radically changed by following your teachings for years. I'm truly grateful.
JP is always cleaning his room because he needs to eliminate the dna evidence that he SA’d his daughter
👆these two comments 👎
Jordan Peterson isn't going anywhere, anytime soon.
Too bad about your misconceptions. His podcast has so many intelligent people on many different subjects. Yous should listen and LEARN something. He's gone up to 8 million subscribers so ...
@@teddyspagehttiyourmeatball3345 that's a baseless ad hominem. Pathetic.
@@wes9809 how so?
@@teddyspagehttiyourmeatball3345Are you trans? 😂
Easily the most comprehensive and interesting astrophysicist I’ve heard on any podcast. Well done.
WHOAAA just seeing this. Cool Worlds is such an incredible channel. So excited for this
This is a breath of fresh air and a new direction for Peterson talks. I approve.
David Kipping is the freaking best. Thank you, Dr. P, for having him on. Loved this.
I want to say this was my favorite interview. I started studying Astrophysics in the Spring of 1996, at the University of Arizona, and it was RIGHT in the wake of the first discovery of Exoplanets in 1995. Many of the subjects discussed here (Dark Matter, Dark Energy, Large Scale Structure of the Universe) were challenging to my faith in Science and my Faith in the Bible. As a scientist I find contentment in learning how much we don't know and still don't know.
Hmmm, interesting. I studied biochemistry and biophysical chemistry and encountered no such incompatibilities or conflicts in reconciliation, not that means anything lol.
Genuinely, how did you progress towards a reconciliation? Did you come to appreciate religion as more allegorical and ideological? Did your scientific journey challenge preconceived or indoctrinated notions of infallibility?
Actually, Earth is probably NOT the only habitable planet but it is the ONLY planet in the galaxy that a CIVILIZATION can develop technology. So why are we here if we could be in any habitable planet? Why are we so Luck? That is the Copernicus paradox.
You refer to your "faith" in science. For someone who alludes to your science education I find this rather strange. I can't for the life of me see why you would need "faith" in science. It is plainly demonstrable that science works. You don't need "faith" in it. Even stranger is that you then say you have faith in the Bible, an ancient text written at a time when people didn't even know where the sun went at night.
The bible mentioned no much, if any, about universe out of Solar System. There are unknown to human, yes. And this leads to the answer lies in bible? no!
I am sorry your years in science fields went to drain!
Pity he " bottled" out with having a second debate with Matt Dillahunty! You must admit Matt " wioed the floor with him. Jordan's PR officer was heard ,(after the debate in the green room), " Din't debate him again, he's way ahead with philosaphy, and theological matters" FACT. Watch it if ya don't believe me! I lost so much respect of Peterson😢
Dearest Dr. Peterson, speaking of fungi, and speaking of space, and speaking of science fiction, a number of years ago I remember you mentioned you were thinking of interviewing Paul Stamets. I was hoping you hadn’t forgotten and were still interested in doing so. The reason how come I’m thinking of that is because the real life mycologist Paul Stamets was the inspiration for a character in Star Trek: Discovery, and his work on mycology was inspiration for the rather beautiful and rather fantastic concept of the mycelial network in space that facilitated instant space travel. Furthermore the character of a fictional mycologist on the show was inspired by him and named for him. Star Trek:Discovery is on my mind because although it is woke as a joke, there is so much beauty in it, and so much of it spurred me to write my own books, and so much of my own books are my 95 Theses nailed to the door of modern (postmodern) science fiction. And Spencer Klavan got me thinking about Discovery when he brought it up in his latest, talking about how the propaganda of it overwhelms the story. And I agree with that.
A lot of thoughts like always because I always have so much to tell you.
With love, always,
Ruth Anne
I once heard you say “things that are good bring humanity together” . So that means what’s bad pulls us apart . You bring us together doc .
Jordan as it best - following in a focussed manner, while garnishing with great humour!
Thanks!
The capability of Mr. Peterson, in being able to communicate his thoughts, questions, and ideas, astounds me along with being able to meticulously fight his natural inclinations to assume certain conclusions. I can only imagine being able to do that on even a level partial to that.
Unbelievable this lecture is free for everyone. ❤❤❤ I am a big fan of Dr. Peterson since 2021.
Always enjoy when you invite and talk with guests that are experts in the 'hard sciences', very illuminating.
fascinating subject. Glad you chose Dr Kipping to give his opinion.
Thank you having this guest on Dr. Peterson. Astronomy has fascinated me since I was able to read.
Brilliant chat gents, I really enjoyed listen/watching
Not in a million years i would have guessed this interview would take place. Amazing to see you both together!
1:01:35 this reminds me of something I've noticed being into gaming. Every so often you get a Minecraft, Skyrim, etc that seems to live forever relative to most others falling away with age pretty quickly. Some become a base for more games themselves, where mods built in and on top of the original keep the life of it going indefinitely. They aren't usually even my favorites but there's something going on with those types that most cannot replicate.
Mr Kipping makes exceedingly good documentaries.
Love you Jordan Peterson. You are a light in our lives. Your genuine warmth gives us comfort in these times.
What times? We literally live in the best time to be alive in human history. Get off the internet lol
My favourite interview I've listened to in the last year. Thank you.
I have only seen a few short clips with Dr. Peterson, but I am a huge fan of Cool Worlds and Dr. Kipping. A excellent combination I must say, two smart people who know what they are talking about. ❤
Just a pure pleasure to listen to this conversation. I wish I was smart enough to take classes with both of them. I would probably never leave the classroom =)
You would become smart enough after experiencing the classes
I like this version of Jordan much better. Great episode
he is the sort of person I would love to have the opportunity to sit down one evening with and ask all the stupid questions I have in my mind about the origins and expanse and so on about this incredible place we call the universe.
Never been this early to Dr. Peterson.
ME TOO!!!!😊
It would be great if people commented AFTER THEY WATCHED THE VIDEO so the comments can be about questions and buttholes.
Early or late? Who can tell
I also just came right after the intro, .... just when his face showed up.
J Peterstien
I don't think there is anything more important than the next interview with Tommy Robinson! 💕
@@neodhani Yes I’m with you 100%. The first one was revelatory for me. I’m aware of Tommy’s political bias but it was a view marginalised until now by the mass media and government and those that simply (and reductively) dismiss him as a racist. Even a friend of mine that thinks that way conceded there was a lot to learn from the podcast. All credit to JP for bring that to millions!
The problem is that we search for life with the very limited 3 dimensional dashboard we call our senses which presents to us just a representation of the underlying „real world“. In addition we have this technology called language which puts upper und Lower bounds to our understanding and also puts a filter on our thinking.
Everything points to a universe which consists of pure consciousness. That would make the question of „is there life“ only to one of degree not a mere Boolean one.
If consciousness is fundamental then everything stems from what one could conceptualise as life.
The possibility are so vast and our understanding narrow by nature.
To even look for technology as marker for „life“ seems strange to me but also is the best we got so far because it’s a thing we know.
The question is not „if“. The question is „what does it mean to be a human being“. What are we? We are so strange creatures.
Please tell me an Italian physicist came up with spaghettification😂 Brilliant
Udon-ification lol
@@drewendly89I just found out about udon noodles absolutely loved it
I can't believe I'm seeing this!!!! I love both of these 2
Cool Worlds...Brilliant and fascinating as always. Never miss an Episode.
Dr. Kipping and Dr. Peterson together!!!?? Wow!!! Never thought it would happen but definitely one of the greatest discussions I have witnessed!!! Thank you a million times for this!!!
Thank you, Jordan, for choosing non conspicuous attire this evening.
I think Jordan Peterson should be asking every guest academic their opinion on the replication crisis.
what the heck?!? dr kipping is on world tour or something and im 100% on board with it. love dr peterson as well. great minds, both.
Kipping's Cool worlds is worth checking out
Dr. Kipping is the goat
O, wow, I am a long time fan of Dr Kipping ! Amazing to see him here
This is wonderful... All of Dr Petersons' talks around consciousness and finally he talks with someone who asks the simple question of "Why isn't there more consciousness there?"
I so enjoy Jordan Peterson and his guests! It's very comforting to listen to his intellectual conversations in this day and age when people are so dumbed-down in education that they can not carry on any interesting conversation.
I’m studying pure physics and mathematics, but every time I come across something like this I’m drawn toward the stars. And then I remember astronomers are all broke, which breaks the spell.
Lmao I'll factor that in too.
Then reevaluate the spell's benefits.
@@ianhopcraft9894 right, because astronomers eat dark matter to sustain themselves, it is known
@@ianhopcraft9894 I’m more interested in making things to help us reach the stars instead of just looking at them.
The real question remains; why do celebrities get credited with the title of 'stars' ...
A miracle only second to human life is having access to this calibre of information for free
Yet you see many other unknown scientists showing up in these comments casting shade
@@MzeeMoja1Yes the comments sections on CZcams in a veritable breeding ground for undiscovered geniuses!
@@MarcusWellstead 😂😂😂 I wouldn't have said it better
@@MzeeMoja1 Then we are agreed! Let’s keep it real and let the pseudo intellectuals tie themselves in knots. I have great fun with them sometimes! One or two well placed questions and the games up!
What a wonderful discussion. Two of my favorites. The kindest and highest level intellectuals sharing thoughts on the universe and it's wonders and secrets is top notch content. Just what I needed. Thank you Dr. Peterson and Dr. Kipping!
Good morning Jordan and David
The knowledge our exploration of our Universe allows, simply keeps me grounded, smiling and more.
Truly grateful.
😀
💜
Glad to hear you’re covering this topic
Best unexpected collab ever, need more like this. Fantastic. Talk to Isaac Arthur!
He is truly a smart man Dr. Kipping
This is a phenomenal video and interview, great job
😊so excited to see Dr. Kipping on this podcast!
I had no idea this was going to happen. I watch both of you guys and it's so cool to see y'all have a conversation! Just 9 minutes in, looking forward to the remainder :)
This science fiction writer has been really looking forward to this conversation! Dearest Dr. Peterson, I just can’t wait to show you what I’ve been working on. It will be a while; traditional publishing is a marathon, not a sprint. And I’m a tortoise writer, slow and methodical, but I always get there sometime because I don’t quit. I hope my book will make you smile some day.
Here’s a cherishing hug
And Ruth Anne’s love
Had to do a double take when I saw this collab. I have been watching both of these guys for years. So cool to see them both togerher! Brilliant discussion!
David is on my short list of favorite science communicators. When you get into numbers in the billions or trillions our brains can't seem to truly comprehend it. We can in a way, but not in another. I was thinking the other day about the Earth's population of 8+ billion seeming like a big number, but then did some math and realized that if you had everyone line up and walked down the line shaking their hands, even if you did it continuously without interuption it would to you over 700 years to shake everyones hand. That is the kind of thing that makes me realize how uncomprehensible large numbers are.
I really do enjoy Dr. Kipping
Intriguing!! Good show👍 Dr. J.Peterson X Dr.Kippling
This was inspiring, electrifying and absolutely amazing! :D
Erudite, fascinating and thought provoking as always. Keep on challenging the status quo Jordan, and providing such interesting content, always much appreciated, thank you.
Thank you so much for this conversation❤
The weak anthropic principle doesn't actually explain why the universe is finely tuned, only that it had to be for life to exist. But that is the very thing it is invoked to explain. It just begs the question. Many scientists dislike big bang cosmology because it implies a beginning, and the contingency of the universe. They then have to either invoke unverifiable multi-verse hypotheses or the world starts to look to much like a theistic world. Modern cosmology, with its beginning to time and mass and energy, gives empirical support to the cosmological arguments made by Aquinas. We don't want to be special, nor have a beginning, because that starts to sound like moral responsibility and God.
Great discussion I happen to describe to both of their channels - didn’t see this coming together, however glad it did - great conversation…….
You are an exceptional leader Dr Peterson. RESPECT!!!
Great interview. Thanks!
What a fantastic guest and interview! Admiration for everyone involved!
Now this was a beautiful conversation of intelligence and is why I continue to watch your work progression Dr. Peterson. Way more entertaining than say maybe your social "experiments" that I have watched through the years, that I like to call personally - "The Analogies War" between people like yourself at your level of degree, youtubers, podcasters and influencers alike in the, lets say, the intellectual realm of conversation of things. This was way more refreshing, Keep up Gods work! God bless.
Great podcast! It reminds me of the original "Cosmos", in the way that Dr. Kipping can talk about these topics without dumbing them down for us in the audience. Making the science accessible.
Love astrology ❤❤❤ I really enjoyed this interview
Good talk! Useful! Interesting! Thank you!
Fascinating interview! Thanks to both of you
What an interesting conversation. Thanks!
A most excellent conversation
This a a dope collab in a podcast🔥
Something that is not talked about very much is the idea that it may simply be dangerous to reveal your position to the universe and so you try to leave the smallest footprint possible.
This is the dark forest theory of the universe. It's at least talked about enough to have a name.
Excellent guest. Great questions.
Great collab - there really isn't anything more fascinating and awe-inspiring than astro-physics.
I wish these two would do a monthly podcast together
The first alien we contact is a planet covering fungus lol, the idea of talking to the entire planet at once 😂
Thank you for this interesting interview. I’ve been always fascinated by space. This was a delight.
David The hottest and wisest Dr
I quite enjoy this talk. I hope the pronounce people will not cancel Dr Kipling for talking to Dr JP.
Excellent. Thank you. 🙂👍
Dr Peterson, would you consider inviting Dr Hugh Ross for a discussion on this and related topics? Would be a 🔥 interview.
100% agree! - a Christian PHD Astrophysicist and Jordan would be so good. Plus they are both Canadian. RTB_official @Mikhaila please try to get Hugh and Jordan together
Agreed, Hugh would clear up any confusion about fine tuning and firm up the proper interpretation of the biblical creation references in the context of modern physics.
I watch both of you. Interesting you both came together in this interview. BZ!
Dr. Peterson, I think many of us would love if you brought on experts in the field of scientific philosophy that can elaborate more on the relationship between evolution and the fine tuning argument. A favorite is always Dr. Stephen Meyer.
Great interview!
Thank you gentlemen for this interesting conversation at the brink of human capacity and knowledge. That is just cool. Though, I am concerned a bit about the possibility of some theories being shaky with new discoveries, but if we expand our understanding of the truth, then be it. Wishing you all the best Mr Kipping.
There’s no way to even calculate the odds of life elsewhere because we have ZERO data to establish that.
Not true. We have some data, just not enough. We have a pretty good idea of how large the observable universe is, we know how many galaxies there and the average distribution of stars in galaxies. But even if we did have access to all data it would still be just an estimation.
Actually, we have ONE datum - our own existence. So we must conclude that life elsewhere is possible (if not necessary) because we are here.
Best. Collab. Ever.
I love Jordans debate's vy logical and rational I get his lingo and admire his assertiveness 🎉❤
Glad you've got this ledge on. 👏
Fascinating topic