It Happened AGAIN! - War Dart Fail x2
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- čas přidán 3. 04. 2024
- Disappoint me once, shame on your quality control... disappoint me twice, hilarity ensues.
This was just too funny not to share. Back in 2017 I tested a plumbata (Roman war dart) by Deepeeka... or tried to, at least. It broke before I even turned the camera on.
Some people defended it by pointing out that those things would be considered disposable in historical times. Fair enough, but how do you feel about 5 gentle throws for $40? Good value for money?
The original video:
• The Deepeeka Plumbata ...
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#skallagrim #roman #dart #throwing #fail #funny - Zábava
Tod's Workshop has a video of a olympic athlete throwing plumbata against a shield and chainmail. And they arent breaking like this, must be shoddy workmanship or low quality materials.
Depeeka, nough said
And he is blasting them things too
Tod's plumbata is pretty massive, those are much more dart sized.
And yeah, terribly made too.
Could be both.
Todd the goat
Maybe Tod could send you some of his plumbatae. At least his seem to work fopr more than a few weak throws....
Judging by some of the other comments: You begin to hear an ominous voice in the background. It's quiet. It sounds like it's repeating something. It begins to grow louder, louder, you can just about hear it..."Hi! It's Tod from Tod's Workshop and Tod Cutler here!" *He is upon you.*
I roll my D20 and......."1".....awwww $%&@#!!!!!
COMMENT OF THE WEEK
:)
I mean at least the enemy cant throw it back at you
Deepeeka should also make flimsy swords that easily break in mid-combat so the enemy can't use your swords after they win the battle.
The Romans were definitely smart in that way they knew their enemies well enough to know that they would most definitely try something like that so they made it that their throwing weapons would be useless to their enemies in that regard
@@alexconn7473 I was joking for the most part but yes, I agree, it's not completely unreasonable to do something like that. The Vikings for example were known to remove the pin that attached the spearhead to the shaft before throwing it for this exact reason
@@Intranetusathis is the best 💪
Didn't even expect to win the battle 😂 @@Intranetusa
Balsa wood really cuts down on the overhead.
More like repurposed particle board.
Balsa wood probably wouldn't break this quickly; it's very light weight so it doesn't store much energy and is rlatively rigid.
I think hat they're using is some kind of very brittle, non-flexible, heavy wood; I've made very shoddy plumbata analogues where the shaft was just a thin stick of bamboo (sometimes as thin as a pencil) and it would still take scores of throws (and throws much more powerful than the ones in the vide at that) for it to break because the Bamboo is flexible and lightweigh.
"We save costs by making the shafts from retired pallet staves, and pass that savings on to the owner"
Worse than that. Pallets are made of hardwood.
More like retired pencils.
Historically when plumbata were used, people on the battlefield would reportedly yell "Ow! Hey, knock it off!".
Ere av it back yer Roam wassock.
Ah, Depeeka, well there's your problem right there. And as KoA said to me years ago "battle ready" means, well, nothing really.
Like "Military Grade" knives
Ah yes, Deepeeka. The only thing they succeed at is failure.
Task failed successfully?
Even at my "couch potato who barely knows the difference between SCA and HEMA" level of knowledge, every time I hear or read the word Deepeeka it's never followed by anything good.
Definitely the wood of the shaft that's the issue. It looks... crumbly, porous, like something that wouldn't hold up being used as a wooden sword by a child, nevermind being thrown against a tree trunk with all that stuff attached to it.
Those are all the characterists feature of discount broomhandles. Their very wieldable shape is a trick! They always break upon first strike!
But on an unrelated note, he really expects us to believe he has this forest with all this wood and couldn't have just made a new shaft for it.
@@RachDarastric2 well, he's not a woodworker. The only wood he touches in there are dead trees and dead drops, rotten wood, etc.
My guess is dollar store broomhandle, you know the type, you probably swung one around before.
@@cdgonepotatoes4219 Ah.
Tod's plumbata were HUGE and sturdy.
The Deepeka ones had what looked like a partial tang as well as a socket.
You'd think this might offer more strength, but now, the shaft of the bolt becomes essentially a third as strong as had it been just socketed.
The soft iron of the tang can't sustain itself against the weight of the plumb repeatedly tapping away at the now weakened break-point.
But maybe that's intentional for a small plumb.
I don't know how they were actually used in combat/war but I want to think it was done like volley fire and underhanded throws like full contact Murican style lawn dart.
It functions in a similar way to the Roman javelin in which once thrown the tip would bend or break so that the enemy could not use it against the person who threw them
@@alexconn7473 The whole "designed to break/bent" theory is questionable. It seems more plausible that the design of both pilae and plumbatae was such as to maximize penetration. Especially since you actually can throw back a bent pilum or straighten it with your foot.
Yeah, underhand definitely makes sense with a larger one. I would have tried it with this one too, but didn't get to it... -_-
@@kamilszadkowski8864 true but in full on war a blunt throwing weapon would not be very effective and the whole straightening with your foot thing would cost precious seconds that the enemy could use to kill you reaction speed was more important on the battlefield than wasting time fixing a broken weapon in a fight unbending the javelin head was likely done when the fighting was over
@alexconn7473 Pila bending is now believed to not be intentional and didn't happen most of the time for most models of pila. I've read scholars now believe that outside of the the thinnest versions of the pila, the pila bending was primarily due to the pila being trampled by people, hitting a rock, or someone bending it in an attempt to wiggle it out of something like a shield. The primary function of the pila was to penetrate a shield...which would already make it difficult to re-use and throw it back at the Romans. So the Romans made most pila thin as a way to penetrate shields, and these pila sometimes bending was the side effect.
We need Tactical Zombie War Dart :D
I can hear it now... "Ha haha ha this is the zombie war dart, now let me show you it's features.
@@bungeetoons That would be the Plywood Repeating Tactical Zombie War Dart.
With a laser and a red dot sight
Banned in Australia for using the word Zombie. Thanks nanny state, so glad I'm safe from any weapon advertised using the word zombie, but not from my rent going up 20% every year!
Purely a case of unsuitable wood usage. It's just not fit for purpose given how a reproduction weapon will get used.
So you’re saying…next time use some Aussie wood?
@@dlatrexswords I mean, I'm sure iron gum would work. But it would be the wrong species for a Roman weapon
@@IPostSwords Pretty sure any common hardwood would be enough. That broke like it was weaker than box-store pine.
@@skilletborne "hardwood" isn't a useful category as it doesn't actually correlate to strength. Balsa, for example, is a hardwood
I Ihave made functioning plumbata with thin bamboo shafts; it is not a matter of material strength, really; you need a flexible wood that will not crack when bent, and preferably lightweight so that it absorbs little energy on impact.
Being a hardwood has very little to do with it; and I can think of many hardwoods that'd do worse than something like fir.
See if you can get some Todd Cutler to make you some. He has done many many videos of long distance plumbata throws with the ones he has made and they are effective and durable.
But they won't cost $40 CAD. Judging from the costs of his work? I would assume a plumbata would cost ~60-80 GBP, or 100-140 CAD.
I think the primary issue here, is that Deepeeka, uses a very low quality wood, and metal. Like, it looks as though they used the lead itself to attach to the wood. The wood looked like it broke similar to balsa wood.
@@dposcuro The metal is fine anyway, it was the shaft that was problematic
@@dposcuro They cost more but won't break after 2-4 throws (if ever), 100% worth it
*Tod
SKALLS FOR THE SKALLTHRONE
BLADES FOR THE BLADE GOD!
It's like when you're a kid and your new Christmas toy breaks less than an hour after you've unwrapped it.
love how the war dart was rebranded as a child’s toy, goodbye war darts hello lawn darts! 😂😂
This is why you need a workshop. You 100% could re-shaft that by hand and make it work.
Lawn Darts! They were a lot of fun. More than once a game of lawn darts ended with kids taking turns throwing a dart as high as possible and everyone trying to avoid it as if fell back to earth. One spirited game, kids started throwing other objects into the air, increasing the difficulty. Nobody ever got hit by the dart but I got a knot on my head from a padlock and my brother actually had a flat bladed screwdriver stuck in his head for a minute. They banned Lawn Darts for being unsafe, but you can still buy padlocks and screwdrivers.
This feels like a lost episode.
Unironically how do you manage to make something so weak? Even just a stick that I find rotting in the forest can be tossed around a few times without breaking so easily. I mean sure the head adds quite a lot of weight, but... that breaks like it's nothing.
It's hollowed out so that doesn't help
You need to call Todd Cutler (Todd's Workshop) for one of his good repros.
Looks to me like you have a perfectly good, extra pointy throwing pommel
Good ole Deepeeka quality on display.
I guess it was actually fiveshadowing after all...
Looks like they need to bring you in to do their QC testing 😅
Or do any at all
I understand that if apologists play darts at the bar they break darts every 3 throws right? Oh no wait... 😂
The issue looks to be how they're made. The first one broke where the grooves for the fletchings met the tang of the dart, the second one looks like the tang snapped where it enters the wood. I would've though that they were supposed to have a socket on the iron part and the lead weight was cast over the socket, then the shaft is just a push fit and easily replaced. The lead weight integrated to the socket also makes it impossible to push to projectile through to remove it.
I made my own similar weapon with a mop handle shaft, some cut up plastic cards for fins and a screw tip. Somehow that thing has survived 2 summers of throwing and is actually pretty accurate.
Dowel wood has bad grain. Look for a dogwood branch. Or a fiberglass plow marker and a quick fletch.
Or any wood that isn't constructed via paper mache.
Bamboo works really well too; will break eventually but it's very easy to just get another stick of the right size.
Wall hanger, so long as it doesn't fall down
Single use? Do people not understand that real dead people don't blink a few times and vanish like in videogames? At some point, there will be time when you can walk over and retrieve the dart, assuming your side won, you're not also dead, and no one questions what you're doing to those corpses.
fletching shaft just wedged into the hole in the plumbata weight, held by friction? replace shaft with..... longer shaft? melee plumbata, or maybe pommelbata? sling adapter? 22 cartridge mod? seems like it could be a versatile pokey stick.
"The bullet broke when I used it"
That wood look rotten. But your humor is top quality.
Thank you Skallagrim, for discussing and demonstrating the important stuff.
the chord drop when you realized it broke was hilarious, very unexpected
It's the wood. I have no idea what kind it really is, but a lot of wooden stuff from India has this cheapo shitty wood in it and it breaks all the time. I had crossbow bolts that got shattered not by hitting the target but by the bowstring shooting them. It doesn't help that the things are sometimes rotten or damaged by insects on the inside. The only wooden object from India I was happy with was a shield, and that one was plywood and therefore immune to this sort of buffoonery.
These things remind me of a bunch of e-darts I got a few years ago for christmas. 4 out of 6 broke at the first throw...
I always understood that the war darts were thrown underarm in a porabola to force the enemy formations to block upwards and disrupt them rather than thrown at specific people
Theyre not supposed to be thrown directly at a target, you lop them into the air like a mortar, gravity provides the force, aerodynamics aim the pointy end down and volley fire tactics provide the "accuracy". That bypasses enemy armor from above
It's thrown using a short length of cord with a tight knot in one end and a finger loop on the other. Wrap the knot end of the cord once around the top above the fletching, loop the cord over the knot, pull tight down to lead weight. Throw holding the lead weight. The cord will come off the knot at the height of the Throw.
As small boys we used to make Plumbata using the weight and points off the old fashioned pub darts, fix them to wood shaft, glue on fletching, Throw using the cord method, we could achieve 100 yards ,very powerful.
Hello skal been a while, I apologise, don’t know if you’ve done this already but I and possibly others would appreciate a video on how you look after you swords, ya know routine, how best to protect the steel etc.
The one thing that puts me off owning higher end swords is the maintenance, maybe I’m exaggerating it in my head and you can finally convince me now is the time ahaha
Depeeka, what did you expect
Well… l was about to tell you to watch the vids Tod has published about the plumbata… but others have already done that.
Anyway, always a pleasure to watch your vids! 🙂
I have read it too, that it was one use, in order to avoid reuse by the enemy, but quickly repair if the battle was wone.
this and your last vid rule. so glad you are still doing vids
As others have said, it seems like bad materials... But as for how to throw them? Both ways you listed are incorrect. Not like a game dart, and not like a knife, but like a ~lawn dart~. You toss them up high in the air, then let them fall over your enemy like iron rain. Gravity + the darts aerodynamics would make it so that the iron head is facing downward as it falls.
Imagine if they had lawn darts instead, back in the day. Bet they'd have tactical nukes by 500AD.
That makes sense, although I probably would have just lost it in the woods if I had done that.
@@Skallagrim Hah, fair enough! I doubt you have access to many wide open fields up there.
CNCed sheet metal, a cast weight and a flimsy dowel, and they're charging how much???
At least the heads can be reused, but that alone isn't worth the money. I'm a beginner smith and could make like 5 heads in an hour by hand.
It really depends on the type of wood and its seasoning that you use for the shaft. If you use birch wood from the hardware store don't be surprised.
0:23 Whenever I hear or see comments like this from -aboos of all sorts, I just imagine wojak crying. "No you can't say that!"
Wait, did people really try to argue that it's fine that a reproduction made in modern day break easily because the original thing was probably just as bad? If it's gonna be badly made it better be buyable in bulk for cheap.
Final thought. I really think they were tossed high and far in volley(maybe a few rapidly) then a charge would be delayed just behind the toss and coming into contact just as darts are causing the enemy to cover a very steep trajectory. Also, it just seems more practical to throw under handed while in armor and kit, as well as hell of easier on the shoulders.
i believe that it was thrown up and fell on the enemy as the two sides engaged and the wooden shaft braking didn't much mater as it was easy to replace but the (then expensive ) metal spike was meant to stay straight so it could be repeard and reused so if you try again please try holding it at the bake and throwing it up
thank you just a dork that's in to romans
Hey!
Hey Plumbata! Hey!
Why are you so plumb?!
There might be a reason why this weapon did not carry on past the Romans.
Gotta say this new channel logo is 🔥
"two casual throws..." Dude is that a rock it's embedded in?
Yes, plumbata, the weekends favorite toy.
Since the time lawn darts were outlawed, we only have this, for healthy, clean and safe fun.
This is why Rome couldn't defeat the army of rock golems
Its to prevent them throwing it back 😆
I bought 3 of the same kind 3 years ago. One of them broke in the same way as yours after some throws. The resting 2 we have thrown rather intensely, and one of them did bend past summer. The last one still “works” fine, though they never seemed to be as good as the ones on Tod’s videos(; which are anyway much longer, but also much-much expensive). Surprisingly (at least for me), they are much better for rather long distance as short ones.
Funny you should ask if I remember that 2017 video of the Plumbata breaking
Yes, Yes I do remember. 😊
@1:09 "lawn darts" a game no longer being made, contained darts that were thrown up into the air and would fall down point first. the aim was to land insice a circle on the ground some meters away. i imagine that the war dart would be thrown the same way.
many people were injured playing the game.
I do not actually mind that is it super historically accurate, as in disposable. I do mind that the whole point of it being disposable means it is super cheap...which this is not.
Dang. You're better off making one out of a fork, some fishing weights, and a wooden dowel from Walmart. It would suck, but at least you would probably get a few more throws at a far lower price.
One I bought had a broken shaft straight out of the packet. I bought some ash shafts(longer & stronger) to replace the ones they came with, but haven't yet attempted the conversion. I just glued the broken one back but haven't test thrown them yet.
I bought a mace from Castel Bayet(Andorra) & went to strip the stain on the wooden handle so I could linseed oil it. I found a 3 inch long by up to 1/2 inch wide patch of rotten, spongy wood just below the head, I could press my thumb nail into it. I didn't buy any more stuff from them after that.
Just go around yard sales and flea markets and pick up some lawn darts for playing around with. My buddy and I get quite a bit of power out of those using an underhand throw.
Saw this on Lindybeige couple years ago, he was visiting some renaissance fair and some blacksmith was making them. Someone theorized that the second row Roman solider would throw those up into the air and land down on the front row enemy while engaged with the front row romans.
Gosh having this happen over and over again would make the pope swear. Gosh I would be livid.
On a high angle, with a hard overhand throw, at short ranges. Against a charging army it would cause chaos.
So are they supposed to be wall-hangers?
The plumbata from what ile read were a bit heavier and were thrown underhanded up in the air where they would come straight down like lawn darts i might be wrong but that was always the way i understood it...
Did the romans produce larger plumbata? They seem to have the profile of one of those Nerf footballs with the tail fins. I wonder if some plumbata were meant to be thrown like footballs.
More like plumnata amirite
I would imagine 1 time use, via a throwing stick for maximum velocity. Even so, no match for a good bow and arrow.
I think the trees used for mass production today are not nearly as strong as historical trees that probably had longer growth periods. That is a shame
That's also part of the problem with some kinds of reforestation campaigns; they try to prioritize monoculture of a single species of tree that grow really quickly, without the varied species actually present in old growth forests
Now is a great opportunity to re-shaft them with real wood instead of the dollar store pencil they used originally!
Ash or olive, maybe?
I think a dollar store pencil would've been stronger than that actually. 😛
Just needs to get hands on some 1970's era lawn darts. That was the real plumbata game. (There's a reason why they banned 'em.)
Damn it pierced the stone.
That’s terrible. Good grief. Skall deserves better!
It looks like it was made with balsa wood.
I guess you gotta buy one from Todd so that it isn't a peice of crap lmao. That was rough
That wood looks dry and brittle. And you throw them underarm like a lawn dart so they arc up high and come down near vertical onto enemy formations. They aren't intended to be used solo but by the hundreds at a time.
Remembers me of Morrowind where you could use trowing darts made of glass of ebony.
They were thrown upwards much like a lawn dart ( now banned after two decades of kids getting hurt)
Skall, you are used to throw pummels with cataclysmic consequences. Be gentle with the fragile plumbata
AKA Decrapna
I would commission someone like ZNA Prod or Tod's Workshop to make a reusable set. ZNA's stuff lasts as shown, and Tod makes Olympic athlete javelins, so there's your frame of reference.
Now you can make a lovely sinker for heavy fishing gear!
It already comes with a hook
You just now realised you have a spare plumbata? After all those years and changing home for three times? Dude, how? :)
Random stuff in boxes, that's how.
Yeah, while plumbata were a lot smaller than a pilum, they were not THAT small; they were still man-hand-sized weapons expected to do more than annoy a shielded/armored enemy.
Prolly used a softer wood instead of hardwood. Drumsticks are made from hickory, oak, and maple. If they use a lighter wood, rattan could be a better option. Not sure what kind of wood they were using.
Hey @Skallagrim, have you considered doing a review of APOC's Atrim Jian? I'm considering it as a first sword for learning to thrust and cut, but there's virtually nothing out there reviewing it.
If it breaks, they can’t throw it back.
“It actually works better now”
Nevermind
Yeah...ive got a couple of those from Deepeeka but purely for display and talking point for the public...your test proved my fears 😬
Depeeka... that says it all.
By the way, this exists in Bhutan too and is kalled Kuru, they usually don't break...
You should make your own