3800 series III supercharged V6 Firebird
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- čas přidán 2. 10. 2019
- Follow my Instagram! Pics of the entire process have been posted on there! @3.8sc_firebird
First stab at this whole CZcams thing, so cut me some slack lmao
This is my father and mine's project car. It's an 01 Pontiac Firebird with an 3800 series III supercharged V6 from an 07 Grand Prix GT in it. Rebuilt the motor, added headers, high flow cat, and reflashed the pcm for boost and 93 octane.
Feel free to ask questions, I'll do my best to answer them! Quickest way to get a hold of me is through Instagram.
Ignore the hashtags:
#projectcar #boost #supercharger #3800 #3800series3 #firebird #pontiac #gmmuscle
#L32 #engineswap #V6 #3.8 #M90 #fbody
They did a really good job of making the V6 firebirds more subtle but still make it look stunning
I agree 100%. Not as in your face as a Trans Am, but still sharp
@@boostedbird4799 trans and are so overdesighned which is why they look cool, but the V6 looks good nonetheless
@@adamspitfire I tend to agree, I prefer the subtle look of the V6 over the in your face Trans Am. Although I will be putting a ram Air hood on mine lol
@@boostedbird4799 I still prefer the trans am for the bumper and spoiler and ground effects tho
@@adamspitfire I like the ram air hood, the high rise is cool, but I think I prefer the v6 one just a lil more. I've also been trying to find a set of w68 ground effects for my bird, but it's so hard to find a complete set that isn't beat up/missing pieces - without them wanting $800+ for the whole set
This is incredible!!!!! I love firebirds and pop up headlights
POP UP! UP N DOWN HEEEEEADLAAAAAAMPS
If you buy a Firebird, you will end buying the $1,100 flush mount headlights.
Sounds good! I wouldn't try racing any ls1 cars, but it's cool being different.
Thanks man! Yeah this is my old set up with not a whole lot going for it, right around stock LT1 numbers. Next set up should be right around a bolt on LS1. Mid 12's to potentially 11's if I can get it to hook up!
Awesome build! They should have seriously made the supercharged 3800 the base engine for the Firebird. More appropriate entry level performance engine with tons of easy modification capabilities.
" Uhhh him getting old"" lol bro haha. That car is alright man fo sho
Appreciate it man
Great video shows how good those are in several ways,they wouldykidy make to stage race a arailight, Later on the canaros dominated in every war I love 3rd generations abs love 4th too.they gonna for sure to be the next big timg
So I'm curious as to what was done about the PCV setup. There's a small port hole on the intake end where the throttle body usually connects to that usually has air drawn threw it. Since you had cut part of the intake snout of to modify your intake tubing, what was done? Was it drilled we've tapped and connected to the throttle body the same way to retain the PCV? Or was it plugged and then a catch can setup installed? Or was something else done entirely? I'm considering going the catch can route with my current build
Honestly, we just reinstalled the pcv - no additional modifications. I'm not sure if leaving the pcv alone is what's causing our higher than normal oil pressure, or not, but it could be.
Could try doing the catch can method. Ik a lot of 3800 builds go with a catch can for a lot of different applications on the engine, and have good results.
Best of luck
Very cool! One day I'll get mine running.
Nice bro thanks. I like if the video was a little better quality and wider but good explanation and cool car setup. I'm putting an L67 into something cool I'll reveal later. Thanks for the video, subbd
Just saw this. Thanks and good luck!
First stab at CZcams and it was on my old phone, so next video will be better quality, hopefully
I have me a 2001 Firebird convertible red with black top with the 3800 V6 and was looking to supercharge mine. Just hoping to find some kind of kit to do it.
So short answer, yes there is a kit. Go to the Zzperformance website, and they offer a "top swap" kit, for around $1300-$1500. However you'd still have to modify to be rwd compatible (making the intake, tstat housing, wiring extensions, tune, etc.) As it is meant for fwd 3800 cars. That kit isn't necessarily budget friendly tho.
My advice, grab a Supercharged 3800 engine for cheap off of like Facebook marketplace, Craigslist, or whatever, then build it on the side, so that you can still drive your bird.
Awesome build man!
Thanks man! It was a bit of a process, but for how cheaply it was done, it was well worth the wait lol
3.8sc_firebird cheap is always good! I’ve been following your build on IG (maplefirebird)
@@shaneraymer5147 truth lmao. Nice to see some og subscribers follow me over here
Did uou use the original pcm or the gtp pcm? Wondering how the transmission is communicating with the gtp pcm if so. Or was there tuning involved to get them to work together. Got my so a 2000 camaro and a 3.8sc to put in along with all wire harness and pcm. Did you use the original 3.8 wire harness and splice the gtp sensor plugs? Lots of questions. Thanks in advance for any info.
It's the original firebird PCM with the og firebird harness. Intense Racing tuned my pcm to get it to run right. Did some wiring harness extensions for the relocated tb and icm. The only thing I didn't plug in was the boost bypass solenoid. Ran just fine with out it
@@boostedbird4799 thank you!
So did this car originally have a 3.8 series 2? I was looking to get an LT1 to play with but I have a complete L32 laying in my garage and this got me thinking lol.
My L32 has a good top end and a spun rod bearing. Would top swapping a series 2 and put L32 rods n pistons work in a 97 firebird 5 speed? Just flash the ecm and set up returnless fuel?
Yes, it was originally a series 2.
If you're going to be swapping internals over to the new block if recommend getting a good machine shop to do that for you. Would also have to make the intake for the blower if you want the supercharger to work, wiring harness extensions, and make a custom tstat housing.
Thanks for the info
Mexico in Madison TWP right 👀 ?
Would the series II f-body intake fit? Then you could pick up one of these for the forged internals and run a turbo instead of the SC.
I got a plan for using my leftover parts, to do a turbo 3800 build like what you were describing.
I am going to take my old block from the Firebird, bore it out to a 4L V6 - since I needs bored out anyway to used. Then I'm going to use oversized L32 pistons and rods, st5 cam, the OEM manifolds that I still have, a DIY air-to-air intercooler, and an old GNX turbo that I have laying around the house.
That will be going in another 4th gen Fbody, but for now I will be sticking with my supercharged setup.
And to answer that first question, that I saw that you typed, you can't put the supercharger to where the throttle body is facing the front, because the entire belt system is on the front of the engine.
@@boostedbird4799 Yeah I immediately realized how stupid I was that's why I deleted it. It would be nice if it was a supercharger with the intake on the same side as the pulley. Are the intakes for these able to be flipped around and fit? Then you could use a series 3 intake for the turbo setup. Do you use the rwd oil pan? Is it different on the fwd cars? Also, are there any block differences between a series 2/3?
@@marcuscoster6529 there is a rwd m90 Supercharger that was used on some Holden cars in Australia, but it's very hard and expensive to get one imported to the US.
As far as the intakes being flipped, I'm not sure tbh. Would have to probably use the LIM from a fwd car, and I dunno if the bolt pattern would match up if you flip the intake.
As far as differences between the series II and series III, it's a bunch of little things: for a n/a 3800 series II (L36) vs. a series II boosted block (L67) the difference is that the boosted blocks have an entirety different top end from the n/a blocks -- that top end *can* bolt up to the L36 blocks. Thus the phrase "top swap" comes into play. The internals are also slightly different. Cranks are the same but the boosted block has a lower compression ratio compared to n/a, so more boost could be ran. The injectors for the boosted block are also bigger than the n/a block.
The series III came with a revised intake that gave like a +5 hp/trq rating for the n/a series III blocks (L26). The series III boosted 3800 (L32) now came with a Gen V m90 vs. the gen III Supercharger found on the L67 -- adding another +20 hp to the crank hp ratings. L32 also comes with supposed stronger rods as well. The fuel rails were also changed to a returnless style - this is why I had to add a fuel pressure regulator to my swap. If I had used and L67 over the L32, then I wouldn't have had to add an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator.
Sorry about this book of a reply lmao, should have probably made a video going over this. And I might in the future, because there is a lot of "he said / she said" all over the internet regarding what will and won't work when playing with swapping engines and engine parts between the series II and Series III.
Hope this helps :)
@@boostedbird4799 The info is great, I've looked at the wiki pages and some he said/she said on forums but hearing from someone who's actually messed with all of it is more valuable.
@@marcuscoster6529 appreciate it. Good luck with your future project(s) my guy 👊
Why does your oil pressure read so high? Is it because of the supercharger because my stock 02 Camarillo idles around 55-60
Not 100% sure. I've read that these oil pressure gauges aren't necessarily accurate. Could've also been a faulty oil pressure sensor. Never figured it out before we started tearing it down again
V8 killer😈
No 💀💀💀💀
Dude I just bought my friends 01 v6 Firebird I really want to do this to my car now! its so fun to drive! About how much money would I need to do this to my engine? Sick car btw :)
Thanks man!
I did this swap for about $1000 give or take $100. I also sold an old engine I had and some old parts to offset the cost.
The engine ran me $250 off of Facebook marketplace. Headers were $200. Rebuild kit was $350. Misc parts (coils, plugs, piping, etc.) Was $200. And a pcm reflash was $200
Good luck if you attempt the swap!
@@boostedbird4799 awesome I have a new project now if can just stop buying guns then I'll have money for this Haha thanks for the fast reply :)
@@kj908studio no problem man, good luck!
how much power have u put out? super nice
At the time it made 215 whp / 307 wtrq. Very poor conditions. Better flowing intake alone and a better tune and it probably would have been closer to 230ish whp
Any updates on the Firebird? Any future videos coming?
Most updated are posted on my Instagram @3.8sc_firebird
But I'm getting ready to do a bunch of repairs on it in the coming weeks, once I get my daily some plates and an Ohio title. Need to fix a nasty exhaust leak and also gonna swap out the spark plugs and fuel injectors in the hopes of fixing some weird miss I've been plagued with since it first started lol.
Next planned videos are a Dyno session and 1/4 mile race in the coming months, all depends on how Coronavirus effects everything and if the track and local Dyno shop open up.
Hey sorry man, I meant to hit reply, not delete, that's completely my faut lmao
But yeah we deleted that pulley, and just went to autozone and got a 1/2" smaller belt than what was on it from factory
Oh hey, I'm doing this swap right now in my camaro and I'm wondering if it was able to run without a tune on the ecu?
It can start and run, sure. But it most definitely will need one if you want to do any serious driving in it. Got my pcm reflashed from Intense Racing, they really know their stuff when it comes to building a 3800.
Good luck man!
Thanks so much, I just mailed in my pcm
@@yaboicarretthe1st769 no problem man! Have fun with your build
I just got my pcm back from the those guys at intense racing, but it doesnt even idle any more without the foot on gas. I was wondering if maybe you had problems like that and if so howd you fix them? Thanks so much, I really appreciate the help
@@yaboicarretthe1st769 sounds like a fueling issue to me. I never had that issue. Give them a call. Ik Jhunto's garage had a similar problem. Check your fuel lines, injectors, etc.
So what does actually work?
"This was done in Mexico of course"
What does that mean? What was done?
Nice man !
Thanks! Appreciate it, my guy!
What wiring did you have to do and you need to reprogram the computer?
I wanna do this super bad, you think it will hurt your engine ?
Only if you drop to a too small of a Supercharger pulley, without the necessary mods to combat kr. Too much kr and then you'll chip a piston.
So like, if all you do is slap on the blower, and then drop to the smallest pulley for sale, you might cause some damage.
Otherwise it's pretty safe and reliable if done correctly.
How did you tune? Plug and play super charger?
It was a PCM reflash from Intense Racing.
It's definitely not plug and play, unfortunately lol. I wish it were. Lots of modifications and diy-ing to get it to run right. And it's still not running perfect because I overlooked a couple small details.
It's very cheap to do, if you can do the work yourself tho!
@@boostedbird4799 get an HP Tuner and learn about tuning. There's tons of info available for tuning education and such. That's my advice anyways. Even if you at least had it, your can always do remote tuning with it but logging and emailing the drive logs to some one that can read the log and edit a file to email back to flash into your ECM. It's a fun experience and you learn a lot that way.
@@boosted0079 I was gonna use hp tuners, but I knew nothing about it. Plus I'd still need to buy the credits, and a wideband so I can datalog. Was out of the budget. I know a mail order isn't the greatest, but it does it's job for now. Pretty satisfied with the work that Intense did
The engine sounds like spoons and rattles when floored
It could be worse, I could be trying to build a Nissan Sentra lmao
Did you add an inter cooler under the supercharger?
I want to, but there's only a 1/2" of room between the top of the blower and the cowl. No room for one, unless I cut the cowl or use a modified tubular k member to lower the engine a couple of inches.
Don't really want to use meth for risk of damage to the engine.
I am kind of thinking switching from 93 to e85, but don't want to get stranded if I ever went on a road trip and there isn't any gas stations that have e85 near me.
3.8sc_firebird okay good to know I’ve been working on my camaro doing the same thing but didn’t know if there was clearance for the inter cooler.
@@christiansanchez2714 yeah, sorry man. Best bet for running any kind of cooling system in an M90 powered fbody is either switching to e85 or running meth.
Good luck with your build man!
3.8sc_firebird yeah I’m already set up for e-85, just one more question. How did you mount the throttle body? Did you have to weld a stand?
@@christiansanchez2714 no welding. It's hard to see, but there's a rod that's holding the TB up in that position. One end bolts to the TB, and the other bolts to the engine.
How much man I would buy it
Did you have to cut the firewall?
Nope. Just a sharp 90° intake that sits flush with the firewall.
Literally everything is broken. Im gonna get it dynoed and add more power
3.4 or 3.3 pulley with open intake and exhaust will really wake it up.
Zzp and intense
I have a gen V supercharger, so I don't have to run as small of a pulley. Putting on a 3.6" this weekend, that should up the boost to 9.5-10psi.
Will be adding a true dual x pipe, and a posi Trac rear end w/ 3.42's in the near future - hopefully before race season in the summer lol.
Will grab a spare block to build up and go crazy on, heads, cam, nitrous, etc.
I wish you lived close to Florida I really want to upgrade my engine but from what I've seen the best thing I could do is buy a different car with a v8 or buy another v6 motor and mode it then do a motor swap? I really like my bird but wish there was about 400hp under the hood.
Yeah that is usually about your best bet when it comes to making the Firebirds fast.
If you want to stick with the V6, your best bet is to do a turbo build. Turbo 3800's can easily see 450 to 550 wheel horsepower.
You could swap in a 5.3 LS V8 for about the same price as a good turbo setup on the 3.8 V6.
it's really a matter of preference, but both engines are capable of making really good horsepower numbers
@@boostedbird4799 Thanks for the fast reply! I Think sticking with the same motor and dropping it in will be my best option as I don't have a lot of time each week to work on the car.
@@kj908studio any time man! Good luck with your bird bro 👊
@@boostedbird4799 Hey, i have a 1998 3.8 firebird. How much would a 5.3 swap estimated cost in shop, and would I need a new mount kit?
@@cliffbangr I've never done a cost estimate on having a shop do the swap. But when I was toying with doing a 5.3 swap, it came out to about $1500-$2000+ for just the engine, not touching the trans. Assume the shop would probably charge you at *least* double because they'll add in labor hours.
At bare minimum you'd need V8 mounts, but ik a lot of people recommend just swapping over the LS1 K-member
im 15 right now and i got a 2002 v6 firebird and its all stock and i want to know if there are ways to add more horsepower please
It all depends on your budget, and whether you can work on your car or not. Doing modifications at home will save you tons of money, compared to taking it to a shop.
But for 15, a good first few mods to do for a V6 bird would be a K&N drop in air filter + free ram air mod, cat back exhaust, and a tune. Should give it a little extra kick, but nothing too much.
Not gonna lie, I'm jealous lmao. My first car was an 03 Pontiac Aztek, so for you to get a bird as your first I'm jealous haha. Congratulations!
3.8sc_firebird yes and i got it basically for free though the paint is kinda old but im willing to do whatever to make it the best car ill ever have and i wanna drive it till my senior year and thank you soo much for the help
@@kyaga-san1035 anytime man! Enjoy your bird!
Have someone rev it while you record outside the car dude make a video
Will try to, when I get a free moment. Life's been hectic lmao
You running a manual or an auto?
Auto. Not as much fun as a manual, but definitely can take more abuse than the T5 would lol.
Sounds awesome. Needs some gears!
Thanks man!
Hoping to swap rear ends soon, with a posi Trac rear end & 3.42's. should help put the power down much better than my stock 3.08's lol
@@boostedbird4799 That would be a great gear for it. If the budget allows, look into a good converter. Completely will change the feel and character of the car.
@@madmod maybe next time the motor is out I'll look into doing a high stall convertor. Rn it's a daily, and all I'm allowing for my budget is the speed engineering true dual x-pipe system, 3.6" pulley for the SC, and the rear end.
Gonna have to wait till I get a second car to beat on before I really go crazy with mods, like a cam, stall, port n polished everything, etc.
Why would you have taken a series 3 3800 and modified it to rwd when all you had to do was find an older Buick Regal with the 3.8 V6 already RWD formatted and put the the supercharger on it. That's pretty much what the Buick Grand National and GNX were! You went way the other way around the world for this project.
I could be wrong, but I don't think that 3.8 shares the same bolting points or bell housing as my og series II 3800. The series III directly bolts on to a 60e/t5 and bird engine mounts bolt up with no modifications required. A series II rwd block is the exact same block in a Series III fwd. Same bolting holes and everything.
The only real hiccup is the Supercharger needing modified - which would have needed to be done anyways if I used the older buick. Plus the Supercharger is a direct bolt on for 3800's, can't say the same thing for the older 3.8 that was found in like a gnx or whatever. Would most likely need to have fabbed an adapter plate for the blower to bolt up to an old school 3.8.
Imo, I think it would have been harder to get an old school 3.8 to work in my 01 bird, than it was to get the series III going.
@@boostedbird4799 Trust me they do bolt up perfectly. GM has used the same transmission for nearly 30 years. Your automatic transmission is nothing more than a GM trusted and true Turbo-Hydromatic 400. Or TMH400 for shot. I did a swap on an 03 Firebird with an engine from an 86 Buick Regla turbo. Bolted up perfectly. Remember GM has been using these engines and transmissions for decades. They are designed to be easy to work on.
@@boostedbird4799 And remember Pontiac Firebird was GM F platform used since the 60s. The Buick Oldsmobile and such was GM's G platform. However, thier both RWD and both transmission and engines are interchangeable.
@@deltaboy767 I could have been mistaken on them bolting up. Most of my research has been on the 3800 series II and III, which are supposedly vastly different than the old 3.8. no interchangeable parts.
That being said, you suggested that I should have put the m90 on the old 3.8. I can almost guarantee that the m90 won't directly bolt on to the old 3.8 without an adapter plate. So I'd have to do that + make the m90 rwd. The m90 bolts directly to the series III.
Another factor is cost. I picked up this engine for $250. I haven't seen a turbo 3.8 from a Buick go that cheap - in good running condition. I also did all new gaskets, headers, and a tune, and managed to keep it under $1000. Super budget friendly which was a very important deciding factor, since I'm in college and paying out of pocket for school.
@@boostedbird4799 I don't know why you're having such a hard time finding a 3.8 rear wheel drive engine when that was used in the Buick Regal the Oldsmobile Cutlass the Pontiac Grand Prix the Chevrolet Camaro Pontiac Firebird I mean the Bonneville that engine was used in almost every single GM car
What transmission did you use?
The fbody 4L60e
How much 0-60 ?! All this video is nothing
Never got an official time. But my butt Dyno said it was probably around 5.5ish seconds 0-60. Did a 14.4 at 95 tho in the 1/4 before I started tearing it all apart for this massive overhaul. Shooting for 11's now!
Id like to pick your brain and maybe your dads brain on this subject of supercharging a v6 ..i have a sieries 2 but v6s are under appreciated and nearly forgotten ...at least these ones of the 4th gen...nothing wrong with creativity
Sure, ask away my guy
@@boostedbird4799 ..i havent monkeyed around with the motor a whole lot cuz i havent decided between turbo super or procharging it or v8 swapping it but lots of ppl dog on the 6ers so keeping the 6 is the route i think and 225000 miles leaves that open ...i put a 3:42 posilock w dic brakes out of a 94 ta and added new springs tubular trailing arms solid driveshaft things like that ...and people say that a sc wont fit but ...that fake shaker hood i saw a few years ago was pretty frikin neat
@@tkrueger8292 got a pretty good thing going with the posi swap. Mine had the open diff 3.08 rear - so all it would do is one wheel peels. Fixing that with this overhaul I'm going through rn.
M90 does fit, and it makes it extremely unique. Not too many of us in the states. A lot of guys go turbo. The power potential is just so much greater than that of a m90. Like if you're making 15 psi and 370ish whp on an m90, 15 psi on a turbo set up with the same mods will be right around 500-550 whp.
Imo Supercharger for fun on the streets + dailyability / turbo for hurting feelings.
My best advice would be to grab a spare junkyard 3800, build it up for a power adder (supercharger, turbo, nitrous) on the side, then swap it in when your current 3800 bites the dust. This way you don't have to give up driving.
@@boostedbird4799 might sound like a dumb question but which block did you use ..i have an L36..and as i understand the L67 is the block built for the boost ..im not as familiar with the differences of the L32 or the ithink its the l26
And i havent wrenched on it in a few years so ..seeing this video inspired old questions
A giant pulley on that charger! Go smaller
Working on that. Got a 3.6" waiting to be installed sometime this upcoming week
L67 swapping a firebird or cavalier z24
Dude fix your freakin car man. Embarrassing, I wouldn’t have even made a video with my dash all lit up like that.. 😬 geez.
I'm not embarrassed, because at the end of the day, it still holds its own competitively. I'm actively trying to fix it as I type this. Already replaced brakes and rotors all around, replaced the entire ignition system, 02 sensors, and am getting ready to do injectors whenever they get in. 😬
Don’t be a dick dude. You probably take your car to the shop for oil changes.
Agreed
@@travishowse9662
This is not your fight so...
@@johna.4334 no one asked