Virgil Donati's 'impossible' layered grooves
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- čas přidán 14. 01. 2020
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Virgil Donati is undoubtedly one of the most advanced drummers of all time. Here we discuss his 'layering' concept, coordination and independence, and I attempt to play a few passages myself (including one from Austin Burcham's recent video on Virgil).
Austin's original video:
• Virgil Donati Impossib...
Virgil's clinic at MI (2005):
• Virgil Donati Throwbac...
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Brilliant video man! I just came here after seeing your IG post and I'm diggin your channel. It's insane you can execute this stuff... I could see how much practice it was gonna take to get this down after trying for a while and I just wasn't willing to put in the time right now, but I certainly commend you for your efforts. Thanks for the shoutout and keep up the good work!
How funny I see you commented here. I swear, I was just going to post how you made a video saying you simply can't play Virgil's stuff and so weren't even going to attempt it. I scroll down and there you were. Just caught your vid a couple days ago. Too funny. LoL
you are the man !! thanks
instablaster...
I thought I knew how to count, but after touring with Virgil for a few years, I finally begin to understand how to actually count like a pro...LOL.
Any tips to share?
❤
That must have been quite the experience
@@alexkoefmanpractice...alot!
I saw you with Virgil Donati. Your playing was beautiful!
I asked Virgil in a clinic once if he likes to switch off sometimes from playing drums. He said apart from riding his horse he really only ever rehearses..... sometimes even as much as 16 hours per day
He also plays keyboards better than most people you will ever meet
His poor horse must get really confused when he forgets and both hands do different things on the reigns :)
@ Now ask yourself how he comes to 16 hours. Probably not because he's out there living the social life, haha. Start now! Suicidal tendencies are the best thing to motivate you in drumming.
@@mumblbeebee6546
Virgil: Right/Left Left/Right Right/Left Right/Right Left/Left Right/Left Left/Right Left/Left.....
Horse: 🤨🤯🤷♂️
Sounds awful
That paradiddle against double paradiddle sounded really great.
Ben Levin: "think about how your tools affect a listener."
Adam Neely: "think about how wide the array of tools actually is."
Shawn Crowder: "think about how most complicated tools are within reach once you analyze them concretely."
The difference in focus in each guy's videos resonantly increases how useful the other two's content is. It's awesome.
Guitar bass and drum... huh go figure.
@@fatguy338 I'd love to see a trio gig of them
12:34 and 12:58
@@StompL7 There's some old footage of Shawn and Ben playing together, funnily enough Quantum Factor, by Virgil Donati's band Planet X
Adam: What
Shawn: How
Ben: Why
The human brain is not capable of parallel tasks (a number of different tasks performed at the same time). What the human brain is good at is concurrent tasks (taking any number of different tasks, diving each into steps, then executing said steps linearly in alternance). What you hear when you execute those and any independence lines is not the sound of each half separately, but the sound of the two rhythms superimposed, or what's called "composite rhythm". I'm pretty sure Virgil is not focused so much on what each half is playing, but how the combination is supposed to sound. It's the same approach when learning polyrhythmic lines. You can get them much easily once you learn how the pattern sounds. After all, you're just playing a more complicated linear pattern.
I agree. Initially you practice both parts of a rhythm separately until you can blend both together. Then it becomes a composite rather than two independent things.
I always tell my student this, i learned it from a classical piano Player
Its not about independence but about in interdependence as Marco Minnemann would say I guess.
For polyrythms specifically, you can use a technique Adam Neely describes. Let's say you want to learn 3:4. Write three lines of numbers from 1 to 4, then circle every third number. Now you're gonna use your hands to tap the rhythm and count it. One hand taps every 1 and the other taps the circled numbers.
I agree but I also think if you repeat something enough times it will become automatic. For instance, tying a shoelace while holding a conversation. The process of tying a shoelace is actually quite intricate but we do it so many times it is automatic to the point of unconscious. So the brain can engage in other activities.
His drumming on Alien Hip Hop is so so good. I love how once it comes to the solo he just plays in a normal tight 4/4 groove and it still sounds so bad ass
I went to a Virgil Donati drum clinic during the Moonbabies era (my favorite PX album) and even though I've always been primarily a composer, I signed up for a '1-to-1 drum class' with him. Even though I'm not a drummer, we ended up talking about music theory for an hour, learned so many great things from him
"don't feel bad if this takes more than 2 weeks to learn anyway i spent 3 days on it and i'm gonna do my own thing now" relatable as heck
Yeah but he also says that he's spent many years practicing the same sort of techniques that Virgil uses, so it makes sense that one already partly familiar with the techniques would be able to pick it up quicker than someone fresh who's never done it before.
😆
So well done! Mind = 💣
I didn't get to watch Michelangelo sculpt, didn't get watch Chopin compose or play, didn't get to meet or speak with Einstein, but I WAS alive to watch Virgil Donati play this instrument. I wish I could stick around for a few hundred years to see what comes next, what evolves. Kudos to all you guys putting in the hours shedding this stuff. Thank you all for pushing the state of the art. Love to you all!
Thank you for doing a video talking about Virgil Donati! 🙏
More people need to know about the absolute master that he is.
lasse genius who makes it musical at the same time
4/4 over 7/8 was always my favorite pattern and when you get comfortable in jaming its like you hear 2 drummers play,i am doing it for 20 years so it take a while to get to this stuff, great work btw.
Cheers.
Quantum is beautiful. Glad to see someone else love it as much as I do. It takes incredible skill to learn and perform Virgil's parts. Amazing job!
Those transcriptions you showed at the end - I would be so grateful if you'd ever consider sharing them. Wonderful video, really appreciate your channel and thanks for all your content!
This gives me a whole new perspective on Vrigil Donati as a drummer. Dude is on a whole another level. good video man \m/
Really loved the video! I got to see him play back in September and my mind was blown away! I even got his sticks so now i'm playing with them on my electronic drum to not tear them
This is why youTube is so good , where we could see this great stuff , thanks Shawn , Austin
incredible coordination, thanks for introducing me to this amazing music
I really dig the thing you say at 11:28 Virgil is so advanced, but so are you. I bow to you both
This video is full of gold. In terms of concept. So awesome. 1. Find the few key exercises to practice to speed create a new foundation when studying or mastering new material 2. Use ideas as inspiration to do your own creative thing. Seriously awesome nuggets for the community. Such an important thing to remind all of us who are hungry to grow as player. Don't get bogged down chasing other peoples vocabulary and sacrifice your own creative voice.
Thanks Shawn.
thanks man for all your video!
I love the way you explain this stuff, I feel so inspired to try it now.
Shit man, that was fantastic, I have so much respect for your incredible discipline and positivity to learn these crazy pieces. Great stuff
I discovered your channel few days back and oh man it's awesome 🔥
It was awesome seeing Virgil in Pittsburgh! Thanks bringing me back memory lane. And good job btw, you really have a handle on this material.
Love your playing dude.
So concise, so on time, so clean.
And ... Not just technically good ...
it Percolates - it Grooves!
LUV IT.
Thanks a lot for explaining and playing these amazing grooves. Well done and inspiring video!!!!
Virgil is an absolute hero of mine, a bottomless source if inspiration indeed. Thank you for bringing his music up! [also planet X is indeed breathtakingly amazing thing ever happened to music]
I've seen Virgil 3 times over a period of 3 yrs. and each time he had improved. After the first time, I thought this guy is phenomenal and a year later he was unbelievable. The last time was at a Percussive Arts Society expo. He played to a prerecorded track and it was frightening. I thought, how can he keep getting better. 16 hours a day is probably the answer.
And here you have a perfect example of a profession(al) musician. You're getting a peek at what exactly it takes to get those grooves and not just seeing the final glamorous performance. PLUS, it's nice to see used heads and not pristine new ones. Working mans drummer! Well done!
Awesome video man
Awesome content as always!
Such interesting timing (ha!). I've been getting back into virgil here lately. You do a great job of breaking down what virgil is doing. You make it seem somewhat more attainable! I caught that Austin video, too.
Dude, you're awesome! I'm a guitar player, and I benefit massively from videos like these, I can only imagine what actual drummers take from this. Gold 👌
Your passion for music is really inspiring. You make me want to work on my own thing.
I love that "build up" section in Bird on the Wing. It's sort of frenetic and when the down beat happens I feel like I can do anything. Thanks for the feels!
Amazing.....both playing and perspectives!
Amazing job! Great playing
awesome work man ! hands up!
Great video!! Solid content.
12:34 is that a Ben Levin spotted in the wild???
yup!
i saw and thought "oh that guy looks like ben levin!" and checked the original video. lo and behold!
Haha I just wanted to post the same thing! That is so awesome that they have played together before.
I was about to comment this!!
I’m 15 seconds into this video and my god, man, you’re an incredible drummer.
glorious instructional video and great drumming, kudos
You are amazing!
Really cool that you even attempted it, let alone got very close.
Great video as always. I really appreciated the part where you talk about getting what you wanted our of the exercise and them moving on your own musical ideas. While is possible to give up on practice too early because of difficulties, knowing when to move on to something different is also really important. In the end, it's about your voice on the instrument and you want you want to achieve. Then again, maybe that easy for me to say because I couldn't come even close to level of expertise needed to even start practicing this kind of playing.
You have my subscription, my respect and my deep admiration man!!
I have never seen anyone mention that album Quantum. I spent my teens listening to a LOT of planet X. As soon as you started the groove, I thought AHHH, I KNOW THAT. So happy to see them getting a shout out from you.
Killer content! As a non-drummer I probably wouldn't even have understood that that's the kind of stuff he's up to. Damn! Keep up the good work :)
Not just played accurately but wonderful dynamics shown here too. Actually, once the pattern is finally learned and achievable, the dynamics are still another challenge to overcome as the parts have different volumes. Great demonstration and great drum tutor(musician overall). Great video, great channel
I was living in Hobart (Tasmania/Australia) in the second half of last year and saw a Virgil Donati clinic come up, hosted by a local music store (Modern Musician). Apparently it only costs 25 AUD (from memory) to see a world class drummer. I'm not even a drummer but I knew it would be a great opportunity to learn. Not only did he absolutely knock it out of the park, we all received some sheet music (still have it) and we followed along with him playing the examples along with the full piece they were featured in. Had an absolute ripsnorter of a time.
man. you're even MORE of a beast than I thought!
I really miss Planet X. What a great band...
Great stuff!
Bravo!! Right words at the right time!! 👏🎶🥁
Amazing concept, awesome explanation! Subbed 🤙🏻
Nice job man !
Shawn Crowder... Thanks for inspiring me! I'm going to work on this!
Well done!!! Well explaned!!! Thx for sharing!!!! Greetings from germany 👍👍👍👍👍
I totally agree with in understanding the concept and using in your arsenal to create your own personal grove rather than being a "clone". Thanks buddy!
CZcams has turned my notifications off for you Shawn! Might wanna check other people aren’t in the same boat. Love your videos 🤘🏼
Awesome!!!
Very cool! I'm a fan of Virgil's drumming on Icefish's album "Human Hardware". It has really interesting drum grooves that fit together super well with the rhythm guitar.
Reminds me of something I learned after I saw Kai Hahto (drummer for Wintersun) play a solo where he used a wood block on a pedal, and kept a specific pattern going with the block while he soloed with his other limbs. I learned that pattern, though now I only use the patter with my hats for polyrhythm masturbation, and eventually came across Horacio “El Negro” Hernandezs’ clave pattern which blew my mind so hard, I spent days sitting there and figuring it out.
You learn the pattern until it’s rote, and eventually, you can play essentially anything over it. The more you play the pattern and try different variations, the more hurdles you discover and over come.
To me, that discovery of a hurdle, grinding it out, and then being able to play through it with ease, is the allure of drumming. This pattern however, is quite a hurdle indeed.
great man !
That's some mind boggling independence and control!
WOW...didn't know anyone could pull off the intro to Thinking Stone...didn't even know if Lang could pull it off...well done man...GOALS
amazing record of the drums
Lol, the first person who introduced me to poly-rhythmic ostinatos was Terry Bozzio. Blew my mind. He taught me some of his secrets, great video!
Loved the video Shawn, thanks!
I'm a guitarist and a fan of Virgil Donati and this video made me want to buy a drums and learn.
That paradiddle switching was next level
Afterearth:
Aliens:
-what they did?
-hit stuff with stick's
-why?
-this:
Sick!!!! 🥁🔥🔥🔥🔥
love this album
So glad Virgil is getting props, Aussie Aussie Aussie
awesome!
well done
Saw him play live once with Andre Nieri and Junior Braguinha.. Out of this world :) You gotta see it to believe it. Also got his autograph on the back of his album "In This Life". Great man, devoted!
Welldone sir .if you work 8 hrs a day you cant play like this..this is professional life that you have. The truth above for everything i believe happy new year
so cool!
You sir have just broken my brain
Fantastic job ! That is definitely brain breaking.
Nice job.
The case is: even if you "learn" how to play what he's playing, no one will ever be able to play like he does. His lightness, intuition of changing techniques whenever he want or even the quantity and relation among notes. He has simply created his way of playing, which sounds very unique and, in my opinion, the next and ultimate concept of rythem.
My brain just fell out onto the floor. Bugger!
Virgil is a beast!
That mus be one of the best drum intros (thinking stone)
that is just mind boggling how Virgil pulls that off
I'm from Melbourne Australia I knew Virgil and I quit playing drums after seeing him in a rehearsal studio .now 51 I'm just learning how to just enjoy music rather than try and catch up to brilliance .which he just practiced as a kid instead of playing outside .blew my mind 30 years ago
Holdsworth the GOAT
9:38 at 1,5x speed sounds pretty accurate 😁
Bravo
Sensacional...ganhou um inscrito
For some super crazy coordination check out the Polish drummer Miroslav Musicant. He plays 12 different meters with such crazy stuff as using whistles and his head to play on a shaker, using the front and back side of the stick to play 2 different patterns etc. Very avant garde stuff.
insane
Insane
Fantastic, great video! Thank you! I assume you're familiar with Pete Zeldman?
Great video! Haha I knew within like a second that pattern was from The Thinking Stone. Maybe because I've listened to the song a million times, but I'd like to think it's because Virgil writes recognisable grooves. As a non drummer there's something that really draws me specifically to his music, especially emotionally. I've never gotten into any of the other clinic drummers, but with Virgils style I always get this feeling of anxiety, like it's quiet and reserved but also sounds like it's about to explode.
It's worth pointing out his skill with harmony as well, it's hard to tell exactly how much input he had with the harmony of Planet X but listening to his pre and post Planet X solo stuff and looking at the other members solo stuff, his harmonic approach seems the most distinctly Planet X.