How to play 21 against 22
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
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Learn how to play 21 against 22 (or any polyrhythm). It's not only possible, but it's not as difficult as you might think. In this video, we look at a few ways to play polyrhythms -- including Jacob Collier's famous 21:22 -- as well as some musical applications and benefits of practicing these rhythms.
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Looks like Adam Neely and I had the same idea this week. I shot this last weekend before seeing his video. Editing/graphics/gummies took forever, so just uploading now. But funny to see similarities & differences, almost down to the same jokes... I guess playing in bands together for 10 years will do that. Enjoy this drummer's perspective on the subject!
Best CZcams couple
You even use the same fonts
Honestly, I love Adams videos but this was a really really excellent video and more that just complimenting Adam's it gave a really good insight into the topic
Yall got the same profile picture and edit your videos the same way. I'm on to you sungazer punks. This isn't a coincidence it's a gosh darn dang sundangledgazer conspiracy. You boys are in cahoots and the general public knows it.
You two make a great tuplet :)
damn dude. this is so good!
EDIT: to people saying that our CZcams videos are similar...its almost as if we lived together for 5 years and have played together for over a decade.
I've learned a lot from Shawn, and gleefully steal from him at every opportunity I can.
Sorry, Adam. I’m leaving you for your bandmate💔
Sawyer Smith his drumming and CZcams game is too strong.
Don’t worry, I’ll still come back for occasional late night flings with your videos
Better than yours no offense
Alessandro Cavallaro Alright lets take a step back now
Content: 10/10
Explanation: 10/10
Skills: 10/10
Notes: 21/22
Nice joke
More like 22/21.
And a Ben levin and justice cow
Well done man, you made me laugh out loud alone in front of my computer, which very rarely happens! :D
Agreed, wasn't quite there
I can't wait for Sungazer Vol 3 with its 99:100 polyrhythm and Ben Levin M&M solo
I need a Ben Levin M&M composition now.
Would you care for a budget version
The timing of the upload just looks like you saw a bassist talk about rhythm and went "Oh, that's adorable".
Nyuu3 I laughed for too long at this
Anki Be nice. Bassists are people too.
OMG. best comment. :)
Bob o'Brien no we’re not!
im a bassist myself and i find this funny
99 against 100 sounds like my begginer drummer friend trying to play fast singles
I don't even play drums but once i played 24 against 79.
I was drunk also.
How about that?
asmo deus proof?
Since we've re-classified this type of playing as advanced polyrhythms, your friend is a virtuoso now!
Here are a few video ideas for you
1. Metric modulation
2.Rhythmic displacements
3.Tuplet based swings
4.Microrhythms
5.Indian rhythmic compositions(Tihaia , Korvais etc)
Yes,
Yes,
Yes,
Yes,
Yes
And when you bend the pitch, but adjust the tempo in the other direction.
@@noslowerdna Metal does this quite often. The pitch bends down, the tempo speeds up.
I was so ready for this to be an Adam Neely rip and I’m so glad it’s not. Excellent video - currently living the percussionist’s wet dream of two different polyrhythm videos in one week
That groove on the ride is perfect for Sungazer
Aidan Xavier actually waiting a song with that beat
Agree. Without hearing the keyboard phrases which inspired the ride polyrhythm, you can see it feels not at all forced or odd, but an added subtle texture on the drum. Not in your face solo. Not filigree (great work). I would use the term texture to describe the new option on the rhythmic palette of the piece. I may seek out the full track at some point, but I get the idea.
Since this is an adam neely for drums kind of channel, you need some audio tags saying ... "Drums!" at the end.
More like "Drum!", since "BASS!" is mainly a call to act
*BEATS!*
"DONK"
A vocoded snare drum.
I think "Go music!" is already perfect.
The third way to conceptualize 21:22 (and the ending 99:100 especially) sounds a lot like phasing
yep! it's basically the same thing.
Came here to say this. On a big enough scale, you're basically Steve Reich'ing it... 😁
I rate this 99/100
or 100/99?
i think it's important to mention the guy from mexico city playing 7 against 11 at 7:11 on 7/11 outside a 7-11
YES to Shawn Crowder making this kind of content!
This is an amazing video, thank you and excellent work!
Your video was what helped me (a non musician/amateur singer) manage to do a 3:4 polyrhythm with finger snapping hahaha thank you, your channel is really cool!
poly metrics and polyrhythmics are 2 different things. many people can play straight metrics against eachother. not many can play actual involved rhythms against eachother without alot of practice. great vid!
The groove you came up with (@9:40) is great! Very musical. 👍
Agree completely. It's basically a much more complex drunk/Dilla beat. (I think I spelled "Dilla" right.) I also really liked the ostinato he did, too.
Also, when I liked your comment it went from 21 to 22. That was too perfect
So whenever my unison strokes become sloppy and turn into a single stroke roll I need to practice more but whenever Jacob Collier does it its musical genius...
I actually really enjoy you aping Adam's style and giving it your own subtle spin. Very nice continuity between the two channels.
It was accidental. He said he shot the video last weekend before he saw Adam's.
@@BigDaddyWes Serendipitous, then. They should still continue it.
What I love about your teaching is that you teach in concepts rather than just teaching directly about something. I think that’s what sets you apart so much from other educators.
Interesting approach for polyrhytms, I have been multiplying the factors, then hitting on them until I reach the product. Once i get a feel for the rhythm , i can increase the speed.
Child custody ended with Adam Neely
Now Shawn Crowder is my CZcams dad
Missed an opportunity by not making the video 21:22 long
I still subbed though
I was going to say that people need stop making videos on this but then I realized how valuable each unique perspective is and how it only really helps me gain a better understanding of the concepts to see everybody’s take on it. Good stuff man.
I'm sensing a trend here.
I think the 21 22 grooves you played were fucking awesome. Seriously. I want this shit in music. Like actual songs I can listen to.
i taught myself how to play a 2:4:5 polyrhythm on one hand, and i think this video is very informative
For me the best way of doing polyrhythms is by spreading them across multiple instruments, each playing different subdivisions, and drums being the instrument which merges these clashing parts together
I’ve been trying to get a better grip on timing as a basic guitarist. Never cared much for most of my 68 years. Your awesome videos was like an epiphany to me. Thank you. Btw, loved Zappa when I first heard him in the 70s. Wish he was still with us but his music, black pages and all, always will be.
He still is, hologram concerts and unreleased demos are keeping his dream alive
That beat around the ten minute mark sounded more musical with the click, and actually provided a context, rather than just sounding like awkward flams or something.
your 21/22 rhythm in the 9min is actually awesome
Shawn. You're absolutely fantastic. Talk about a killer video with fantastic production from a good dude. Now I need to check out more of your stuff.
If you choose to become active on this platform with content like this, you'll go FLYING.
1 minute in and I already love this video style. You earned a sub!
You don't need to make an Adam Neely for drums channel. You're rocking your own thing and I hope you keep it up.
....that accent ride shit is so easy to think of, but absolutely killer to watch you execute it. Wonderful vid, my friend.
Ben Levin is basically clickbait you shoulda put him in the thumbnail
this video just remind me of left turn lane when there are 1 or 2 cars ahead of me and had their signal light on, but due to turn on at a slightly off time and each car model probably flicker at different rate so it looks like they are going in and out of phase. and 2 cars plus mine is in triplet form lol,
sometimes I thought of it as two metronome playing at different bpm
that first example where you filled the gaps with 16th note double kicks. It's ideal for a prog deathcore outro in a breakdown form.
I love the red dot next to Rec is blinking in time
Oh man this is so good. That last version of 21:22 was right on the edge of my rhythmic comprehension, like I could tell there was a groove but couldn't quite feel it.
Great video. During your play of the 21 against 22 I could hear a big ole trombone or something brassy kinda like that blasting thru. yeah daddiooo.
The way you presented with candy and the drum sticks was quite brilliant. Very well done.
this is super useful to know nobody can intuitively subdivide these on the fly, I was using methods like in the video and assumed I was cheating
I've done stuff like this before in the shower. My phone would play music, and I would beat box another beat to it but then go out of beat and eventually catch up the song on my phone.
7:15 Good explanation!
I was going to suggest playing whatever ratio your like to dislike was but it's honestly too much at this point. loved this!
Dude this was fantastic. It's given me a much better appreciation of how complex rhythm can be. I'm feeling pretty inspired right now.
Also, the quality of your videos is on-point.
Man if you like this listen to some tool. If you're not into that kind of music give it a listen anyway, because the drummer is known for putting complex polyrythyms and syncopation that still sound organic and natural.
Try with Triad
@@asmodeus9075 I've been an avid Tool fan for years. They're pretty amazing.
Like melody's and chords polyrhythms have basic elements that let you structure them in a logical manner. These elements are called Poly-meters from which almost all polyrhythmic combinations are built. The basic polymeters are 345678 over 4 beats ( but it doesn't have to be 4 ...however that is where most of us start ). So lets take the 1st one - 3 over 4. Once you master this "I'm going to the store" rhythm between your both hands with the "Im" = both hands together & then alternating each hand after that; Once you have this basic polymeter going (3 over 4) then you can now hear both basic rhythms at the same time. But until you can count one and play the other you really don't have them (yet). Remember Poly = two and that means you need to be able to [ go in and out ]of polyrhythms and not just make it a game (like: "I'm going to the store" ) Ok back to 21 over 22 Notice that above in the basic polymeter numbers that there is a 7 - that 7 = 7 over 4 (1&3/4 times faster than the 4) Once comfortable with that polymeter you can then play the 7 as 1/8th notes - or triplets - or 16ths - if you play the 7 as triplets then it just so happens to be 21(but it's really just 7 in 3's or triplets) so now you have 21 over 4. (on the bottom you have 4) Here's where it gets really tricky because you need to be able to play in 11 over 4 (it"'s in my book "Polyrhythms the Musicians Guide") after mastering the 11 then that has to be sub-divided into eighth notes and that is where we get the 22 . You can go on forever with these tricky combinations but the possibilities of what can be done as musicians when actually learning how play polyrhythms will lead to rhythmic freedom that you probably don't even realize you have.
...stumbled upon this...couldn't subscribe to Shawn's channel fast enough... brain bomb material...so kindly broken down... epic Mike Mangini photage!
That first musical example is a phat beat! Super nice!
Sat here and watched this, scratching my head as it's way over my head. Then I watched an Adam Neely video featuring Sungazer, and I was like "Wait a second, I recognize that drummer!" This is the first time I've seen a Shawn Crowder video, but I've seen a ton of Adam Neely lately.
1. Do you recommend Bounce Metronome to help learn and internalise polyrhythms? ( wondering if it’s worth purchasing)
2. I may have misunderstood you , but in my experience, it seems like a person could be able to focus on 2 distinct rhythms at the same time , or - perhaps more accurately ( experientially ) - that you ( ie overarching consciousness ) can notice / perceive both respective distinct rhythmical awarenesses. I mean here ( hear ) - play 3 against 2 . Ok . 1. You ( overarching awareness dude ) can perceive the whole unique 3:2 sound pattern and sound { ‘one two and three }
2. You can switch back and forth and focus on the 2 and then on the 3
or
3. Over time , you can touch the consciousness of both consciousnesses .
See Shawn Crowder teaching Shawn Crowder = Instant subscribe
I think Jacob started out with a 7͏:11 polyrhythm and subdivided the 7's into triplets and the 11's into double time.
So it's like doing 7:͏11 but with a nested 3:͏2 or smth like that.
Now this was INTENSE
The idea of polyrythms work much better when you consider different polys in progressive or regressive measures. Like 3 in measure one, 4 in measure two, 5 in measure three, 7 in measure four ... Then learning to add eighth and sixteenth notes to those bars. Then learning to break individual measures into separate smaller polyrythms. It creates a radically different type of "movement" feeling in music. Like Black Page...Zappa
I absolutely LOVE what you said at 08:14. What do we do with this? Should we implement this? HOW should we implement this? I say that it should NOT be implemented, but if someone does have a little heart set on implementing anything beyond what is easily managed physically, then electronic instruments, multitracks, and the like, should be used. Composers like John Cage have introduced MUCH, MUCH easier clock-based ways of executing unconventional successions of notes. There are better ways to spend one's time than pursuing the physical playing of such ridiculously subtle rhythmic activity. Good composers and arrangers will NEVER run out of interesting things to do with just seven diatonic notes and simple rhythms, because there are MANY, MANY THINGS that can be done melodically and harmonically. We needn't feel that unconventional successions of notes occurring over the course of time t is a necessary pursuit to keeping music interesting.
Holy FUCK, that slower drum beat you came up with towards end is so sick. Subscribed and swoon.
This channel needs more subscribers. So many more
Am a singer songwriter, still sent this to my drummer. Top quality content, thank you. Came here for the candy in Ben's pants, stayed for the beat education
Takes shit to the next level, best youtube music week
You could definitely spin out the slow back beat 11-tuplet into a live version of Drunk! Also, playing Bird on the Wing is tripping me out, especially by the left foot!
This is amazing, this guy needs like 1 more million subs
nice to see a drummers view on this... its cool to see the drummer and bassist give differne vies on this!
Let's look at 2 v 5. You'll discover on the 5 side a symmetrical da-dum pattern on the left side of the center, and a dum-da pattern on the right. By analyzing the patterns, it is possible to become familiar with the spacing of the two patterns in between the left/right/center markers of the 5. A similar analysis of 21/22 will expose a much larger number of symmetrical patterns, but one that nonetheless can be mastered with practice.
Bro I've been in love with Adam Neely for years but this is the first video of yours I've ever seen and I'm fuckin converted.
Love it
"This video is a perfect example of musical appropriation and collaborative one-upmanship. I bopped my head until I stopped! A must see." -Ryan Neris, The Daily Unread
just being a hobby table drummer for years i can say that i randomly made higher n, n/n-1 beats, of course with errors. and i can agree on the concept that the delay between both increases, reaches a maximum where you have simply double your inital bpm, then the delay decreases until they match another again.
A guest in and NO ONE has mentioned polyrhythms are the IRL application of lowest common multiples?!
Great explanation with gummies and candy too.
so cool that both adam and you talk about this stuff, so I can understand sungazer's songs
As a singer songwriter you actually play with, I have to insist you DO use this on a singer songwriter gig. We definitely need some more 99:100 in our show. 🤯
yesssss.
This wankery is going so far that the music genre that will spawn in response will be in 1 : 1
I think there are some types of eletronic music which uses that. Like hardcore.
@@asmodeus9075 dang no ! you are unfair^^ hardcore is not that simple, just listen to Sick Of it All or Counterparts
@@asmodeus9075 ohh sorry I just learnt there is a electronic genre also called hardcore !! that's weird
@@erbihc1781 i mean, its not alwaya technically 1:1 but sometimes it gives me that feel.
Even our heartbeats are more complicate than that XD
Also talking about wankery vs minimalism. There is a composer that has a piece that consists of silence. He just sits there in silence for some time.
It may sound stupid but as an idea it is extremely powerful.
Just like everything. A dance between sound and silence, light and darkness, existance and non-existance.
I love to talk about these things expecially on psychedelics lol
Dude are you kidding me? This video is so well made
Ever since i found out about Sungazer i cant stop listening. You are truly an awesome inspiration to practice my techniques and get my chops up!
Hello I’m your friendly neighborhood saxophone player! I’ve been watching Adam Neely for a while now and now I’m subbed to you (whether or not you make an AN but drums channel). Keep up the good work and keep inspiring younger musicians!
Miroslav Musicant has some compositions where he plays 8 simultaneous polymeters on a drum kit. He uses each limb for a different number, his head and a whistle for two more, plus he adds two more using accents. It doesn't seem possible, but he has a whole video breaking it down.
You can look up "8 layers polymetric" on CZcams.
I don;t remember who did it ... but for me the "pass the peanut butter" explanation was just perfect - i managed a 3 over 4 (or 4 over 3) in no time ---- now .. how can you possibly make it with a 22/21 i don't know... sentences aren't long enough LOL
there's train tracks going through our city (that i've lived in my whole life), with 2 bells that play just like this whenever a train's passing by... interesting how it all comes back around to this, i guess you could say that was my first experience with polyrhythms :D
I've only managed to learn 2:3 and 3:4 because both have been used everywhere since forever. But other than that I never could learn any polyrhythm. Thanks for the video!
Welp, I saw the thumbnail, saw the channel picture, then clicked. I was curious, as I knew Adam’s channel well (been following for years). I then saw the Sungazer link in the desc and realized you were his bandmate! Then, Adam’s comment cleared it up further. I’m so glad I clicked, because now I get my music theory fill twice as much now, with content just as good!
Well done Shawn! You gained a new sub, this video was fantastic!
This video is actually really accessible and informational for something that seems pretty high faluting. I'm a dumb guitar player and I learned a lot.
The Sungazer song in the background reminds me of Steve Reich's Music For 18 Musicians
I was literally thinking of this exact video and then it showed up in my feed. CZcams is reading my mind.
I must do a comment! For 2 reasons first of course you did a perfect balance video between emphaty and teaching and secondly by consequence you won a new subscriber. Hope as soon as possible that your channel raise fast!
Thanks!
"...51, 52, 53, 54..."
Go, Shawn, GO!!
Peace, dude... ☝️😎
Try to match any two cars' turn signals. That looks like how Jacob is playing. I lag my offhand, and you'll hear it start to reach that on/off beat balance, if you keep lagging your offhand you'll feel your main hand slowly catch up and "lap" the offhand. Once they match up you'll hear it desync again, three stages
It's cool seeing videos like this crop up.....I was experimenting with similar concepts over a decade ago. Even compiled a long list of one-level nested tuplets. I think there is a strong future in music with "fragmented" durations, but as always there will have to be commonly used tropes (cliches) to become culturally significant on a larger scale
Thanks for being so clear on how it's impossible to hear both at once! Maybe I can finally start believing I've mastered 4:3, at least...
Great vid Shawn! You can really see you and Adam influence eachother in terms of editing and explaining.
Love your content and drumming so much, Shawn! You're a huge inspiration to me!
Nice stuff man. I'd love to hear about your practice routine, as a drummer whos into similar stuff as you but not at your level yet obviously. Stuff like what you do to keep your hands in shape, coordination stuff, and bass drum technique, drummers to transcribe. Okay I guess ill go practice now
Church bells! It sounds like bells going in and out of phase with each other.
I'm trying to learn the guitar, what on earth am I doing here?
Getting in way over your head xD
As a small icon, you look like Chris Pratt
but the beginning seemed so slow and frustrating
Lawrence Rhodes hahaha man does
It'll help keep you grounded.
I absolutely love your videos.
You do a really great job of showing the actual process of learning music.
Would love to see you tackle Brian Ferneyhough's "Bone Alphabet." You'd probably make it sound pretty sick on kit!
watching yourself explain playing polyrhythms on the laptop got my sub haha
Literally learnt 5:3 and 7:5 (omw to 7:11 nice) in a matter of two weeks thanks to this video
this is amazing. your effort and production value should earn you well over a million subs! how you're at 10k is beyond me. awesome job, liked and subscribed
I was taught the breakdown how to learn polyrhythms but without candy. Damn it!
There's a really nice groove that can be created. In 4/4, accent every 9th 16th note at around 100 -110 BPM you'll get a nice groove that kind of just rolls off the sticks
Well explained, and a solid example of balancing music with music theory