Are New eBikes Really Better Than Old Ones?
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- čas přidán 11. 01. 2024
- Nowadays it seems like there is no limit on the price of eMTBs, with some bikes costing as much as a new car/motorbike. But, has what you get for your money really changed? Steve Jones sets out to answer this by comparing the new Canyon Spectral:ON to its older brother from 2018. Steve compares geometry, spec, and eBike tech to see if buying an older electric mountain bike will actually get you more for your money.
⏱ Timestamps ⏱
0:21 - Have Modern eMTBs Progressed
0:57 - Let’s Compare!
2:40 - What You Get For The $$$
3:54 - Geometry Differences
4:33 - A Deep Comparison!
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Are you riding an older model? Would you upgrade if you had the chance?
I did. I picked up a Yamaha 7 (demo) for a lot less than my original 2019 (model year) Trek
I've been riding both back and forth. The Yamaha feels lighter and is twitchier. The downside of the Yamaha is that there is no where to mount gear bags or even a water bottle. I'm riding the Trek more lately as it is better at riding with gear (trail clearing tools etc). The Trek battery system is WAY easier to deal with over the Yamaha
Can you upgrade the electric motor on the older model? Seems most of the improvements involve motor performance so if you can just update the motor the older model would be competitive.
Unfortunately there is no standards set for manufacturers to follow yet so they usually put mounting holes etc in different places
@@ThisGuyRides
honestly no, given that yamaha still uses essentially the same motor today that they used back in 2016 for their cheaper models. the newer just have different electronics which allow for faster cadences. range isnt an issue either, you can go further than you really want to go. if i really wanted to i could get a third party battery with 750wh. thats almost double of my original 400wh one, on the cheaper models you actually get less for your money now. you get coil instead of air forks as an example.
I think there is a balance point when upgrading to a new bike makes sense although one doesn't have to.
I have a Scott e-bike from 2016 and whereas I’m not an aggressive rider or techie person into every new innovation, I think it is still relevant today with a full Fox suspension and Bosch CX Performance motor. It can still keep up with the newer e-bikes on most of the rides and knowing that i had paid only half the current price of a new bike was priceless 😊. My only outlay was a new battery pack and a preventive motor rebuild, still ways cheaper than a new e-bike .😁
I'm still rocking my 2018 spectral on. Definitely a great bike.
Same as me. My e spectral 8 is awesome and have ridden others bikes which are new and wouldn’t swap it 👌🏽🏴
I’m on a 23 YT decoy Mx core3. It’s been an absolutely amazing bike. Upgraded the brakes to TRP Evo. For me I can’t imagine a more expensive bike would make much difference in my riding. Maybe one day when this bike is run down but I’m happy.
The most noticeable change of benefit, given I own an older bike is the battery capacities. The rest is tech which you may find a benefit or not. My e8000 motor has been perfectly fine and still is 4 years on and 13,000kms. The fox36 factory front and fox factory x2 rear, saint brakes, di2 shifters are all perfectly fine as is the geometry. The limiting factor is range and that is all about the battery. My Merida E160900E is as capable today as the day i bought it. Mulleted and 2.5 tyres being the only changes i have made. I have looked around for a replacement and would take a $10k AUD price to get onto something that compares. I have a new e8000 motor from shimano that i bought during covid in case mine failed and left me without a ride. Comparatively a cheap investment compared to a whole new bike ;) that new motor is still sitting in its box waiting....
i have same exact same bike, keeps up and even beats the newer bikes, top spec and still looks the shits, im keeping mine to.
Just buy a second battery more range than a 900 watt and cheap upgrade
there are now third party batteries for the older style external batteries, with much higher capacities. like 750wh.
I just got a Bulls Copperhead AM EVO 1 for 3k and I truly feel like a teenager again.
At almost 50 years young this has been my most joyful purchase in my life and believe me, I have plenty of toys. Motorcycles, music instruments, drones etc etc.
I wake up thinking about riding my bike! 🖤🖤🖤
Just ordered an am 4 750. They are $3500 now. Which works for me price wise
@@letsgoOs1002 lots of luck with it! I already changed to 152mm cranks and got me a new handlebars. Looking for the monkey link 150 lux headlamp but seems to be available only overseas 😔
That Canyon looks lika a piece of art the color is amazing.
My 2018 SpectralOn is mega - I love it. I did the battery 'hack' so I can fit a 630wh battery on it.
Inform me please 😅
and this is why we watch and love your video's 😊😊
Still riding my Haibike All Mountain Pro from 2016. It still gets me up the steepest hills and is still a better bike than I am rider. Of course One always wants the latest, greatest; it is just the small matter of convincing the wife.
Rocking my 2020 Turbo Levo. It’s just fine. Upgraded with new wheel set (worn the OEM out) and AXS shifting. Motorist fine as is battery. I might swap the brakes, but there is nothing I can see that needs serious upgrade. Double the price is nuts. They are pricing themselves out of the market.
Great video. They are definitely getting better. With that said, the emtb I bought about 10 years ago still does everything it did the day I bought it. These are not throw away toys either. My 2 cents. I think the market will continue to explode.
I got an Outlet Spectral ON CF7 for 3.5k Euro.
I didnt found one single scratch.
2023 Model with new Ep801 Motor.
It rides amazing! I will upgrade some Components in the Future for sure but even our of the box its capable!
I would say the only thing that keeps people going new is the warranty! Same as cars, its becoming a stupid game people need to stop buying new and enjoy the old things, people are too spoilt today we had fun on chopper bikes and Raleigh burners! People with too much money wreck this trade
My 2018 e spectral on 8 was yellow and black with the 8 speed bombproof rear mech and cassette. Still using the original cassette. Just change the chain every year and it’s perfect 👌🏽👌🏽I also have a spare 414wh battery which I stick in my backpack and can outlast any of my friends with their 700wh spesh e-bikes
If we compare it with the Orbea Rise, we see that in 6 years a bike with similar motor performance, increased autonomy and reduced weight by 4.5 kg. Not to mention the changes in geometry and their repercussions on performance.
Riding a 2019 Haibike Hardnine with a Yamaha motor. over 10k kms on it, derescticted ofc. But 500Wh battery is an issue after loosing some of it's capacity. My brother bought an older carbon frame bike and built a single speed with hard fork with a small 250W hub at the front and a 48V battery. All wheel drive works surprisingly well and not having gears is compensated by the assist, even though it's not perfect. And total cost is like 1000 Euro. Best part - it's 14 kg. My bike is 11kg heavier. Absolutely love what my brother has built and want the same.
It's not worth double the price. Any way you spin it, it's not worth it
External batteries really date an EMTB now. Sorry Steve, the only reason you can put it in your (normal) backpack is that it's 500Wh
It's not just bikes, it's everything. I priced out my diesel truck online and it's 30k more now than 5 years ago. I wait for sales, wish I could get a levo on sale, but things are too tight this winter.
I wish I had an ebike back in 2018, however having being introduced to them in 2022, I'm glad many of the problems have gone.
I have Canyon Spectral:ON 7 2019. Paid 3.699,00€ for it new. The geometry is SO good in this bike. Nothing wrong with Deore XT.
most potential for performance boost is in the driver! 💪
met a lot of guys with very expensive bikes in bike-parks who think they can improve their skills by buying a new bike...
@@justanormalperson5691 Yep i see this all the time, you can put a good rider on a very old bike and they will still beat all the people with 15k ebikes,
2018 Trek Powerfly FS7 11,800km , original Bosch gen 3 CX 75Nm motor, original 500w battery chargers to 99% originaal shocks, original wheels and hubs. 23.3Kg I purchased second hand Feb2020 under A$3k. I've put 9,000km on the bike to date.
Apart for some dics pads and rotors and one chain plus a TX derailer that broke due to a stick and one rear tyres. The only change has been A$100 for a seconhand 29" front wheel to make it a mullet. The wheel came with a near new tyre 29x2.5". Still have the original 27.5x2.8" front wheel and tyre. Plus a couple of shock service seal kits (A$35ea).
What's the point in spending A$9k for some thing that is not going to be not much better. I still get 5-6hr XC ride (~60-70km) depending on terain.
Do I need 85Nm, 650w battery. I think not. So far full power bikes haven't really come down below 23.3kg and electronic shift is not really worth money it when you run the risk of having a stick turn it into a peice of land fill.
I have a low cost low tech husky and luv it. Hi end tech is beyond me but seems cool. Happy Trails
Most of us ride strictly for fun, and going as fast as possible is part of the fun for me anyways.
When I hammer the 2022 Spectral ON CF8 hard, it feels like it can do way more. I dont currently see me needing some other bike. Some, mainly online, cant even consider an EP8 motored bike.
In real life mine works great, can go as fast as I want to go with it. No problems.
2018 were the good old days ... 🙃🙂
Yes befor convid made everyone scared of their own shadow 😂
Very interesting approach. Then it shall be interesting to consider premium second hand eMTB vs. new mid range model, don't you think ?
Then what woud be the best between upgrading an old model vs. buying a new one ?
Buy used, i learnt this lesson i bought new 2022 specialized turbo levo, paid £4600 done 500 miles its like showroom conditions still, i asked the shop i purchased it from a trade in price they said be lucky to get £2200 i said no thanks i would never buy new again people, get some very good used ebikes for half the price, and some have hardly been used! Save your money 👍🏼👍🏼
I recently swapped out of a Merida e160 900 to a 2023 Mondraker Crafty R. The Merida was $5600 AUD and the Mondy was $8500 ( on sale from $10500 or so). Even the 'best' e160 900E ( DT Swiss 1501,Di2, Kashima Fox , Saint, XTR etc) was 'only' about $6500 AUD. Whilst my new bike is awesome, it's probs because it's new!I suspect everyone got greedy during Covid and continue to charge what the market will bear. I know it's been possible to spend $20k + on a road bike for years but these newer eMTB's aren't substantially that different- geometry changes shouldn't incur a price rise. Even factoring for inflation, the price rises have been pretty significant. 5 years ago a 'good' eMTB might have been $4-6k AUD, now it's closer to $8-10K. Still, worth it!!
I’m a roadie so mtb are out of my experience base but for someone just after an assisted ride can’t you just buy a city bike with dual suspension that assists using a torque motor and call it a day? It’ll probably weigh more but it’s assisted uphill anyway and downhill the weight wouldn’t bother right?
Just ordered a new vitus e escarpe, for £1800 as my first proper E mountain bike . Couldn't imagine paying 8k+ for a bike 🫣😧
They aint worth the money they loose too much after warranty ends! Folks keep chasing the new bikes and i cant see why😮
what would be helpful would be to consider whether buying a used e-bike a few years old represents better value (almost certainly). Worth discussing it on the channel to get more people into ebikes. this is fine, to compare the original specs etc - but the real choice is £1k or so for what was a £5k bike, or £5-7k for similar specs now.....
have a 2019 commencal meta
with the e8000 which i replaced last year at 5k miles. trying to get the motor rebuild by a guy in poland. also a 9.8 fuel exe. it’s my impression that the e8000 is simply not as sturdy as newer shimano versions. most distressing element is the lack of backwards and forward compatability even within brands. i spent a fortune buying a second e8000 motor from shimano. it would have made way way more sense if i would have been able to get a ep801. some people on some face book forums have adapted ep8 with a few peripherals switched but it’s simply insane how even within brands it isn’t easy let alone say installing a bosch cx powertrain.
Totally agree on the component role not being as big as industry is trying to make consumer believe!
but this part weights 5grams less!!!!! 5 grams!!!
I bet I could take a razer blade to wooly jumper and shave off more weight
They haven’t progressed enough except the battery to buy new again. My 500whr 2019’ trance e+1 still gives me ~2.5hrs ride time using mixture of assist.
Instead of buying new equipped with lower end suspension I invested in some higher end units
The pound for pound you are talking about Steve is the bike weight right...? Because it for sure is not the money 😂
To be honest, i was quite disappointed with the motor performance compared to my old Bosch cx. Also had several times problems with firmware hanging up.
No timed runs?
How do i get a question to Steve?? I don’t see any responses from him in this format, so I’m assuming there’s a better way to upload a question to him?? Thanks for your help anybody and everybody!
When was this filmed? How come you have green stuff around you?
He always abroad
For me it would have been WAY more interesting, which bike actually performs better on the trail by making a time comparison.
No offense, but for comparing data sheets I don't need no video.
My neuron on 5.0 still going strong....5000 miles on original motor...the newer ep8 may be more refined but perhaps not as strong
Of course new is better 😊 A specialized Levo is the best
Iam still riding my 2019 turbo levo, still loving it,🤘
I'm still using my 2019 specialised levo and I don't think it's really dated that much
They are great bikes they just lose a lot of value when the warranty runs out 😮
What a great bike. Beautiful to ride, beautiful to look at.
My last ebike lasted 7 years and is still going as a backup bike. So I dont see a requirement for peopleto spend 5K every 4 years. If you dont race it really isn't a big deal.
I find the videos very interesting and it would be great if there was the possibility of putting subtitles in Spanish.
Good Job Stevie! Thanks for the journey back to the older eBikes...C'mon Stevie, we would not give you grief for wearing gloves in that nasty weather this morning...Instead of trying to look hip with no gloves would not comfort be better?
De restricted e8000 out performs an out of the box EP8. If you're looking to modify your bike e8000 is still the best platform.
A little less expensive, that does make them a little better. Other than that same, nice bikes with underwhelming electrical systems.
Keep it real mate, ordinary weekend bikers will never be able to throw 10k at a new e bike every five years and the manufacturers would do well to understand this or see their sales figures take a hit. We dont need the ridiculous levels of electronic sophistication on pedal bikes which is driving the cost up. Thats what Moto x is for!
Yes they are.
That's a ridiculous question
Hi guys, electric motors are used to power mopeds, motorcycles, cars, white vans, campers, motor homes, and even the ubiquitous milk float. None of these use or need expensive gear shifting boxes to increase torque! Why? because their motors are low rpm high torque devices. E-bike motors are the other way round unfortunately The old adage is still true, the weaker the motor the more gears you will need. OK, mountain bikes might need 3 gears with challenging terrain however the cheap 50 buck motors now fitted need outrageously expensive 11 speed reduction gears!
Hmmmm, $8k for an eMB or…..HGH regimen, EPO injections, and testosterone shots for $1k….
Paying double is still worthy? Not for me
The price difference is pure gouging. Bikes always got better, and prices increased due to inflation mostly. A doubling in price in 5 years is ridiculous. This is why the industry is in collapse now. It bubbled. This is not limited to ebikes ALL BIKES are completely overpriced. (Maybe an argument can be made that base model frames are a better value)
More expensive and less reliable. My Canyon CFR motor failes after 7800 km.
Who buys an Ebike every 5 years???? What this video is FOR??? ARE PEOPLE THAT DUM???? I hope Bike Brands like CANYON will go under for using SMART PHONE SALES TACTICS ("new /same model "every year) ON MTBs and EMTBs. I wish I newer bought my Grand Canyon ON back in 2019
Dumb vs Dum , since you're asking.
I don't know what planet you're living on, but it's not Earth. You're comparing 5000 £ and 10000 £ bikes like that would be normal.
And the entry level ones costing 3500 £.
Improvements nobody really needs. They are just forced to innovate by the market in order to sell you new stuff every year.,
Hi, this is propaganda for the bike industry
Battery capacity, motor/battery weights, motor quality (more customizations and better support/help)
so, yes, yes they are