D'Agostino Relentless 800 Monoblocks: Falter or Flawless?
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- čas přidán 29. 08. 2024
- Adrian gives his first impression of our newest arrival -The Dan D'Agostino Relentless 800 Power Amplifier Monoblocks.
Does it falter or is it infallible?
How moved was he?
Uncrating D'Agostino Relentless 800 Power Amplifier
• Uncrating D'Agostino R...
Gryphon Apex & Commander First Impressions: Should We Return Them?
• Gryphon Apex & Command...
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Audio Excellence Inc. is a high-end audio/video store in Markham, Ontario, Canada, a suburb of Toronto. We've been in business since 1991.
Check out our interviews with designers and audio luminaries like Daryl Wilson of Wilson Audio, Paul McGowan of PS Audio, Paolo Tezzon of Sonus Faber, Wendell Diller of Magnepan, John Atkinson of Stereophile, Dan D'Agostino of D'Agostino Master Audio Systems, Nelson Pass of Pass Labs and others.
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Edited by: mike@audioexcellence.ca
Your metaphors and stories really pointed out your passion and helped me get a sense of these amps from D'Agostino, made me want them. I really enjoy your content!
I certainly can’t afford most of the equipment you review Adrian, but your Eva Cassidy referral is both free and priceless. So thanks a million:-)
My pleasure! Love to share great music
Great feedback. Heard a similar setup, also felt the Relentless 800 sheer control and musicality when driving the XVX was superb, a marriage made in heaven.
Love your analogies Adrian ,much more interesting and relatable than the usual techspeak found in reviews . Perfect in conveying the attributes of what seems to be a simply sublime piece of hifi equipment
Great job !
Many thanks for the kind words
Arguably one of the most salient or telling qualities of any audio system is how a person ends up talking about the MUSIC more than the equipment itself . . . so interesting how there was no Good, Bad and the UGLY here . . . just music :-) Adrian's PLEASURE of connecting to the music was so evident throughout the video.
Excellent review. Dan is a seasoned high-end campaigner, as you well described. Still clinging to my KRC-3.
Thank you for the illuminating review. As it so happens I had the pleasure of hearing a system similar to the one you reviewed including the XVX's and D'Ag Relentless setup by Daryl Wilson himself for the premier of the Chronosonics at the major dealer for both brands in Michigan. Amazing. The best system I have ever heard, too. One caveat. Daryl used physical media entirely for the demos (LPs on a Clearaudio Statement and SACDs with a Vivaldi stack). He used NO streamed recordings. Thanks again and happy listening.
Would like to hear your comments on the Gryphon Apex / Commander combo driving the XVX versus the D’Agostino Relentless 800.
Will certainly try.
If you are planning a purchase of equipment in this tier and price bracket, I think that it would be in your best interest to purchase a plane ticket (a drop in the bucket comparatively) in order to hear this comparison for yourself via a live demo, rather than rely on someone else's interpretive ears and impressions.
But the problem remains that it will not be the same experience because it will not be in your own unique listening room with its unique acoustic properties, speaker placement, relationship to the room's boundaries, listening position, or using your other associated electronics in the signal chain.
Unfortunately, either way it'll be an apples to oranges comparison because the acoustics of the room determine the outcome, especially below about 700Hz where the response is completely dominated by the room and its acoustic properties and environment.
Deep Purple is still my favourite band. Watched their concerts a few times. 😊
Who cares about deep purple. 😆
Dude smoke on the water is second to our national anthem!
@@davewin1792Preach!!
@@MrUran11obviously you. But everyone has an opinion, not just you.
Great review, it really shows how much this system touched and invoked so much emotions and passion for you, stay well
Thanks
Very engaging review. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Thank you
Hi Adrian, great review. Since you were the person who alerted me to Eva Cassidy’s music and story, I wanted to maybe return the favor with an artist I just discovered along the same vein… Judee Sill and the album Heart Food recorded in 1972. If you’ve never heard it, give a listen. Absolutely beautiful voice. She was the first artist signed to David Geffen’s new Asylum label. She only recorded two albums. She began working on a third album and never completed it. She never achieved any commercial success and after struggling with drug addiction for years, died of an overdose at age 35. Apparently not even an obituary was published upon her death. If you’ve never listened to this album I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
Yeah…matter of taste. She had a good voice. The songs on this album are all VERY ‚early seventies‘/ flower power style and a bit boring in their sound similarity. Eva Cassidy though- a quarter of a century later - I like much better. Although she didn’t write all her songs herself. Got her Live at Blues Alley album - which is REALLY great!
Jebus, you and your Eva Cassidy, listen to her ones, twice, enough, nothing special.
YMMV, but search for the following album and just give it one full listen.
If you don't like it, no worries. But as a musician myself, IMO she's an excellent female singer-songwriter with a solulful, sultry, and sometimes smokey voice, and she's backed by excellent musicians, and it's an extremely well-recorded album.
It's an album that is half Jazz Standards, and half with her own compositions and lyrics. One of my favorites on the album is "When Sunny Gets Blue", but IMO there isn't a single "mediocre" track on the album:
The Steph Johnson Trio - Nature Girl
Steph Johnson: Vocals & electric jazz guitar
Rob Thorsen : Acoustic Upright Bass
Fernando Gomez: Drums
@@bikemike1118I will give it a listen, didn't hear her Live.
Thanks! I have heard her music but didn't know her bio. Will listen again
Hi Adrian, I have Alexia's with Vitus monoblock amplifiers and Vitus pre-amplifier, since buying that combination with a playback designs mpd-8 Dac I've really stopped looking at wanting to upgrade any more than where I am now. Pieces of music that I played when I was having a rough time in my life bring me to tears with this system and exhilarating music that I played in better times of my life also move me with overwhelmingly happy thoughts.
All of this is conveyed through my system now and its ability to be real believable to take me to a place and time in my life, so I understand what you were saying in this video.👍🙂🎧
Adrian, thank-you for sharing your reactions and feeling created while enjoying this new system. I will never have something approaching this, but I love your sharing of the music that moves you, evokes memories and emotions and more . Also, always some specific music recommendations that I can seek out to enjoy. Well done!
Thanks!
Thank you for your opinion/ review of the Relentess 800 monoblocks. Despite your passion for these 800 amps I wonder how they would match up against the Macintosh 1.2 kw monoblocks with a pair of Sonus Farber Speakers. This match up would in my opinion set the bar for king or a draw of the major stero equipment wars. Thank you again, TMP from N.J.
Not for sound quality.
I hope to compare at some point, thanks!
Hi Adrian, thanks for your videos. Building a trustworthy site. Well done. I love how you can show us all these wonderful pieces of equipment and what can be expected from them. Where else would I go to get this kind of view? Keep it up dude, you do good things.
Thanks for the review
My pleasure!
If you look up “Meet me in London” in Tidal you will get the Album with the Caruso track. Thanks for the Music Tip🎶👍😎. Listening on my Wandla DAC feeding directly into my Genelec Active Speakers. Sounds fantastic - bliss👂🎶
Enjoy!
Great intro to this amazing looking product and excellent insights.. I am curious about your clients painful sounding system is. uhhumm Burmester or any of the Swiss made product..CH1. So hyper detailed My ears were bleeding lol. I must drop into your store when I am ever in the Greater Toronto area
How does it compares to the Momentum and Progression.
It would be nice if you can also do a comparison between this, the Gryphon, the Mcintosh MC2.1KW and MC901.
I guess the latter ones will have a lot less detail and control, but the music engagement comparison will be the most interesting part.
Also it will be interesting if you can do that video with your team, so each can share their impressions.
Thanks for your videos. I enjoy them a lot!
Unfortunately, that is simply IMPOSSIBLE to judge and make a relatable and meaningful determination, because it's not going to be with YOUR Loudspeakers, or in YOUR room, or sitting in YOUR listening position.
Not to mention, that it is impossible to make any definitive judgements in a sighted test due to inherent confirmation and expectation biases.
Below the Schroeder Frequency (about 500Hz-700Hz in most listening rooms) EVERY aspect or characteristic of the sound is determined by the room itself, and that is also completely influenced by the position of your particular speakers in your unique room, as well as your listening position in relation to both the speakers and to the room's boundaries.
There is simply no absolute way to make a meaningful determination due to these significant variables alone, and especially so in a sighted listening comparison.
For some extremely insightful and revealing information, take just 5 minutes of your time (less than 1/4 of the time it took you to watch this video) and read the following article:
"Audio Musings by Sean Olive - The Dishonesty of Sighted Listening Tests". (sean.olive.blogspot.2009.04)
FYI, Sean Olive is a PhD researcher who has worked alongside Floyd Toole at JBL/Harman Int'l.
I also highly recommend the latest edition of Floyd Toole's book that is titled:
"Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms"
Will try to go through each at some point, thanks
Nice review Adrian. The feeling you get when the music hits your soul that is what it is all about.🎶💫
Thanks!
Song "Caruso" written by great Italian musician Lucio Dalla (1943-2012). I love his song " Cosa sarà" from 1979. Have a great day.
Yes, thank you
I am not overly fond of D’Agostino industrial design, particularly the meter and my wallet is not fond of the price 😊 but the craft is incredible and the sound is above the rest.
I had the opportunity to listen to the same combo (w/ dCS) and too came with very similar reaction. We too listen to Saint Saena 3 (Myung Whun Chung) completely. It was glorious, could not press the stop button.
Thank you for sharing this amazing review! Since you tried various sources, which source (preamp) was best to your liking? I personally hope MSB DAC directly to these behemoths were not too bad compared to using a preamp.
D'Agostino is the king of amplifier design. Thanks for the great review.
Thanks!
Given you love of music, you should definitely try Zellaton speakers at some point., especially the new Ultra range with their new drivers. Thanks for all these great videos. Will try and visit your store someday when we visit Toronto. Last time was 2004.
Thanks, I hope to hear Zellaton again
Some people will argue that looks mean nothing for high end audio but c'mon, these amplifiers are drop dead gorgeous and much more interesting to look at than a black monolith. But I guess at the price point, they certainly should be no?
I disagree, I think they look tacky, not my taste at all. 🙄
I don’t like the Captain Nemo style of it. But tacky they only look in the black with gold version IMO.
The silver/ copper case looks pretty good.
I would argue that looks mean a LOT. There’s not many systems that have the gear hidden away in a closet.
@@TheNathanMChannel But not on the street for everyone to see either…
my buddies and I were playing
smoke on the water in our teens as well ha ha ha
Such a Good Review. An expensive product that performs well
You listen till the end of some musical performance that in all other listening sessions always ended up by that given moment when you stopped listening ....then you know something is right !
Great review and stories. I love listening to you share your experiences.
My system has been an 12 year project. Custom hand selected drivers, amplifiers, cables, 100 percent fully active DSP, quad amplification, crossover topology, design, slope points, levels, time aligned and tuned by yours truly, installed in a purpose built studio, with furniture grade plywood, rubber, carpet, velvet drapery, vibration dampener, mass loaded vinyl, laser aligned Mobile two channel immersive sound system. 18”Acoustic Elegance Subwoofer in an infinite baffle configuration.
The system can play flat from 11 Hz to nearly 40Khz. F10 is like 2 Hz. Raven Ribbon tweeters with 13 pound motors from Aerial Acoustics discontinued 20T flagship model.
Unbelievable dynamics, and distortion free up to 111 + DB.
System provides a 100 percent transparent near field listening experience. A unique rabbit one of a kind creation that is the highest resolving system that I’ve ever heard. The details pulled out from the source material is above studio grade.
Gigantic sound stage with holographic imaging, and incredible depth and width.
The cleanest tightest bass I’ve ever felt.
Located in Massachusetts, USA.
The system also features a Fully Modded by ModWright Oppo BDP-205 multi disc player with 43” flat screen television for extracting high resolution audio from Blu-ray Discs.
Featuring Audioquest cabling and Furutech outlets among others. It’s a 120 volt AC / 12 Volt DC hybrid system.
Newest piece that’s still burning in is the New NAD Master 66 preamp which took the system from Audiophile grade to studio grade.
The name of the system is Transcendental Immersive Musical Experience or the T.I.M.E. Machine for short. 😊
Would love to see and hear it. Make some videos please.
Wow, that's a true labor of love! Congrats
@@adrianlow2114 I’d love for you to hear my creation on day !!!! 😎
what is the technical differense inside a D`Ago amplifier if the sound is so fantastic?
St-Saens… what a souvenir… 45 years ago…I was part of an amator symphonic orchestra (+- 60 members), a guy brang a new disk to the repetition and asked to listen it on the big speakers the orchestra had… I have been looking for this feeling for 40 years!… not about the sound by itself, about how you fell the organ… not eve hear it… be feel it… I am just about to reach this (first) level… and also trying to find “the” recording the worth it… I will try yours today!🤭
My pleasure. If your speakers are capable of deep bass, the organ will simply melt you
Can Adrian replace the magic marker for a cigar? A whiskey adjacent?
lol. ok
Please review the duetto!
I love your videos, but any chance you could get the rest of the gang back. Its always more fun to hear everyone else’s experiences.
Just wait till you get the complimentary Relentless Preamplifier. 🤯
Outstanding video intro
I've got 2 seperate customers who have had nothing but problems with the Relentless Amps overheating ... it's so bad I'm tempted to talk about what a poorly designed amp it is for $250K. It simply should never break. The other amps not so much, but thier top of the line is a real kick in the shorts...
Wow I’m jealous:) I thought I was in heaven with the effortlessness of the Jc5 and a pair of Magnepans playing classical pieces. People ask what effortlessness sounds like? Every transient sounds like the first. It has to be experienced to be appreciated.
Better yet, Coda Ts V3 800w@4ohm
20.7s w 2-Rel Carbon Specials 😊
JLA cr-1 active crossover w SR xlr's
Well :)
Thanks for the review :)
My pleasure!
Adrian, how do the momentum 400 MxV s do compared to the 800s in a similar system?
That's a neat intro with the wattage dial .. How was that done? .. ahahah
I definitely would enjoy more time hearing those amps and speakers... What few minutes I had with Jonathan and Val .. were not much.
Wonderful to hear of such emotional response to a system that one would expect such results from .. ( in that compromised room no less ) =)
The other looking at are Gryphon Antileon Evos'.
Cool to hear the Deep Purple story. I think most of us have ‘those’ records or bands from our younger days that us made life long fans. Oh, what I wouldn’t give to spend a night with my records, the XVX’s & 800’s…like “Indecent Proposal” 😂 Seriously though…doesn’t get much better than that.
P.S. Adrian, as a car guy I’m disappointed in you. Throw out all your windex and use invisible glass!!
lol. All I had was windex
An outstanding video.............................
I have a bad back. Does D'Agostino recommend their amps remain within 12" of the ground?
Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
Not sure if there is an official recommendation
Yes, only a very tiny amount of people will listen to a system like this 😢
Should I ever win a big enough lottery, it’s nice to that this level of equipment is available. In the meantime, I am actually happy with my much more modest system.
800 watts???? Seeing that needle dance was amazing. I have momentum stuff and Alexia 2 speakers. Even when listening to it at what I would call a loud level, I've never seen it go half way up. That must really be something.
Not understand how it works… I have a 600 w/channel with easy speakers… at 18% volume, my needle on the amp swing to the 50%….
Also depends on the kind of music you’re playing / the recorded bass dynamics which draw a lot of current … and therefore move the needle.
Wanna see the needles peg? 1812 Overture; modest volume; when the canons fire the needles peg.
Singapore is much less repressed now vs the days of Lee Kwan Yew.
It's really a shame that very few, if any, of the amazing recording, mixing, or mastering engineers that have actually produced all of this wonderful "audiophile" music that we listen to dating back from the 60's through current day have not had such esoteric and "high-end" amplifiers to use in their own studio monitoring speaker systems and facilities.
TBF, I think that most of them have miraculously done quite well without them, as Adrian and the rest of us can truly be moved by and enjoy the fruits of their labor and the glorious sound quality that they've SOMEHOW managed to achieve even without access to such esoteric and "high end" amplifiers during the production process.
HOW can this be possible???
Ironically, at least for Classical music recorded in the 50s to early 70s, much of the fantastic sound was due to simple mic techniques and not using too much processing. Decca's recordings during this period are some of the most realistic I've ever heard. EMI had some of the most glorious string sound.
@@adrianlow2114
Yes, good microphones and minimalistic microphone techniques with a KISS approach maintain the phase coherency, imaging cues, and inherent dynamics that overprocessing in post production mixing will quickly destroy.
The 1976 recording of Oscar Motet's Choir in Cantate Domino has been evidence of such minimalistic recording techniques since it was released.
I'm sure you've also heard some of the Mappleshade Records releases as well, which were produced using similar KISS methods and microphone techniques.
Clifford Jordan Quartet's performance of 'Round Midnight from the "Live At Ethell's" release is one such recording. The ambience of the club and its patrons that evening are a bonus and add to the realism.
As a sax player, Norris Turney's "Big, Sweet N' Blue" album is another dynamic and lifelike Mappleshade standout. Try "Blues For Edward" as a start.
Similar minimalistic phase-coherent Blumlein stereo microphone and recording techniques were used on the Cowboy Junkies "Trinity Session" and "Trinity Revisited" albums, which I know you are a fan of.
I'm a saxophonist and drummer/percussionist myself and have had a home studio for about 12 years. The most lifelike and dynamic recordings I've captured have been using Samar Audio VL-37 ribbon microphones in a stereo Blumlein configuration, and/or AEA KU4 & R88 ribbon mics straight into a Millennia HV-3D-8 microphone preamp (also a standard for classical recordings) with no additional processing.
But the ATC SCM-25a active (self-powered) studio monitors use built-in Class D amplifiers. :-O Regardless of being "Class D", they get the job done. ;)
And at least 85% of all professional recording/tracking, mixing, and mastering engineers are using active studio monitor loudspeaker systems which incorporate built-in Class D amplification. So there's that.
In my own main HiFi listening room, it's been a pair of my own DIY active loudspeakers for several years now. They are a 3-way design using a point-source concentric/coaxial BMS 5CN162-HE 5" midrange/1" HF compression driver combined with two 10" Ciare HW251N woofers. Dynamics for days. :)
I developed the final phase-coherent passive bi-amp-able crossover networks by using VituixCAD simulation/modeling software and a 12-channel MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 v2 processor with optional DIRAC Live.
The speakers are pushed by multiples of the ~$1300 Hypex Nilai500-based stereo Class D kit amplifiers from DIYclassD. After blind A/B/X listening tests, these amps replaced both the McIntosh and Pass Labs.
For classical recordings, I'm a fan of Hyperion Records UK, Opus 3 Recordings, and 2NL releases, as well as the go-to Reference Recordings label, along with some of the Decca and Naxos releases as well.
However, if you want just one compilation of high-quality recordings to test and demo ALL aspects of any HiFi system, search out the Stockfisch Records "Are You Authentic? - AYA - Authentic Audio Check" SACD (see Discogs).
The "Percussion Ensemble" and 3D/holographic imaging "Djembe Drum Walk" tracks on "AYA" are especially revealing. And the simple solo Glockenspiel track will test the Dynamics of any system.
The Opus 3 Records' "Showcase 2005" and "Test CD 4: Depth Of Image - Timbre - Dynamics" compilations are standouts, too. Check out the Cyndee Peters and Eric Bibb recording of "House Of The Rising Sun" and the expansive ambient space and soundstage of the soprano soloist and entire choir in "Across The Bridge Of Hope" by the Erik Westberg Vocal Ensemble.
Of course, there is always the 1812 Overture as a dynamics torture test, or Prokofiev's "Bass Drum Concerto, Movement 4: Allegro brilliante (may speed)" with Joby Burgess (on Hyperion).
More recently, I've been enjoying the NAXOS release of Michael Daugherty's "Tales of Hemingway: American Gothic/Once Upon a Castle" with cellist Zuill Bailey, and the occasional pipe organ by Paul Jacobs combined with the Nashville Symphony...
Incredible soundstage and dynamics! "The Sun Also Rises" is a standout, but the others are all equally impressive and enjoyable. YMMV
Cheers
@@adrianlow2114 Agreed. I really enjoy the Decca/London "house sound". I have a number of recordings of Solti/Chicago on Decca/London that I really enjoy - Beethoven symphonies, Also Sprach, etc.. The recordings really capture the robust sound of a large symphony orchestra. The timbre of individual instruments is correct, instrumental groupings are distinct and the whole orchestra sounds like it is laid out in front of you. In the end the recordings give a sense of comfort that this is how an orchestra should sound.
@@bbfoto7248nice setup! Thanks for the recommendations. I have some Opus, Hyperion etc. Will look them up!
Just the amplifier to drive BBC LS3/5As! 😃
most of video not about the Relentless...cars, weather, someone's glaring system, records...finally at 22 minutes for a moment, Relentless gets is due, although notes other systems may be better
That was a very succinct 31-word summary of this almost 24 minute "review", LOL. 👍
Yes, my kids call it verbal diarrhea ...
@@adrianlow2114
At least they're somewhat polite about it :-p ...unlike us.
@@bbfoto7248lol
Hi Adrian, may I ask how these sound at low volumes of say 55dB to 70dB? How hot to they run compared to Apex? You might enjoy Smoke on the Water version on Live in Japan album....my fav version. Also try Eric Clapton's Cocaine from Just One Night album and finally Tom Petty's Refugee from Pack up the Plantations album. All great live tracks. Enjoy!
Yes the Live in Japan version is my fav!
So for a review like this, why didn't you break out the good stuff to go with the 800s?
Regarding symphonic music satisfaction, I have found that much depends on the sonic quality and style of the recording. Different labels and recording teams have different house sounds and points of view. Some may present the conductor's pov, up close and personal, while others may put the listener somewhere in the audience. Some may be more appealing than others.
Agreed re symphonic music
Adrians Performance Model Y picture was some kind of cheap Toyota… 🤪
Adrian - could you run the Relentless with a tube preamplifier and see what happens? I have an Audio Research Reference 10. I am considering the Relentless 800.
I'll try. I know Wilson Audio has Audio Research preamps as well as the D'agostino 800
It’s a wonderful combination. I have heard that combo and it was sublime.
Hello. How does these compare to the tenor 350 hp mono blocks. Thank you sir
unfortunately I don't know
How much gas does it use? Do you need to rev it while listening to music?
Certainly not…
if they does not heat too much at 1 ohm, then they ARE good.
The vast majority of home HiFi amplifiers aren't even designed to be stable down to 2 ohms, let alone 1 ohm.
However, the majority of high-power car audio subwoofer amplifiers are stable down to 1 ohm loads, and some even to 0.5 ohms!
Completely different use case scenario, though, since car audio amplifiers are relegated to using Power Supplies that operate off of ~12 VDC - 14.4 VDC input.
But Bill McKiegan of D'Agostino did say that these were designed tested to be stable down to 2 ohms.
However, to achieve their full output power and performance, Bill also stated that you will need a larger circuit than your typical 120VAC 15 Amp or even 20 Amp North American household circuit.
@@bbfoto7248 there are transmission line hifi home speakers at 0.5 ohm, if you did not know. those are patented DIY made.
To be honest the first videos were more entertaining and combined several point of views like Jay’s and Philip (the fellow that got fired). Now it’s borderline boring and long
Hi, I'm Mike.
I work here at Audio Excellence. I also film and edit quite a bit of the videos.
Unfortunately, the algorithm doesn't lie. These videos do much better than the roundtable discussions.
BUT it actually has nothing to do with the algorithm. Sadly it is a matter of time. We are not a CZcams channel - We are a small boutique retail showroom that also has a CZcams channel so it comes down to time. When Lewis and I are involved in reviewing, and although we are intimately familiar with the gear we have here, we do spend hours listening to our songs for the system we are reviewing, and we still have to complete our "real" duties here in the shop. Filming and editing a three-person roundtable takes quite a bit longer than the single talking head shoots. With a single person doing the review, scheduling the shoot time and edit is much more flexible, and although Adrian has his thoughts well planned out, we often shoot with only a couple minutes' notice.
That being said the roundtables will definitely make a comeback sometime soon....cuz we like doing them!
please explain how a guy owns a shop like this and obtains this hi end gear so often. does he resell it? is it sent back? how does he make money . seriously. its all been demo'd so he cant sell it new can he?
And that's why I can't retire ...
200.000$…
Tesla is crap car for mommies and gays. Can't corner or stop like a Corvette with a fun manual transmission and rumbling engine sound and the roof off.
Any electronic piece "breaks in" immediately. Break in is another lie perpetrated by those who should know better. "USE TO" is a more accurate descriptive for new electronic equipment.
And regardless, IF Any Manufacturer does claim or state that their equipment requires a "break-in" or "burn-in" period, THE MANUFACTURER themselves should perform the necessary "break-in/burn-in" on their own time and dime!
The Manufacturer should NOT expect their customers or clients to be the Guinea pigs and waste their own time having to wait for the product to reach its "maximum performance state" and/or have to wait to benefit from the full enjoyment of their purchase!
And exactly what happens AFTER the noted break-in period??? :-P
Realistically and logically, one would expect the electronics to continue "burning in" which should lead to degradation after that point, as in the case of vacuum tubes, which is, in fact, what happens with tubes.
BUT, this is NOT a significant factor for 99% of solid-state electronics.
mike from audio excellence here,
while i'm not an engineer, so correct me i'm wrong - as far a I know some electronic components such as diodes, show threshold changes to voltages as temps change
In the case of a A pure Class A amp, theres a case for warming up first since the output transformer change voltages slightly from cold to warm
Tubes for sure perform differently.
I'm a bass player and my solid state bass head sounds different when warmed up. Esp when its been brought in after its been sitting in a cold van for hours. Is the difference night and day? not at all. but its there
Regardless, there's a noticeable difference in some components, for sure. And if we're doing a demo, we're letting the system play for as long as we have whether it needs it or not
Again, anecdotal evidence, some systems just don't have the resolving power to showcase suble sonic differences. This system Adrian is using in the video will. And you can definitely hear the difference on Dagostino when its been on for 10min or so
but as some here said, the best way, (and most enjoyable) is just play music:)
@@MikeFromAudioExcellence
Mike, yes, of course, certain electronic components need to warm up to their nominal operating temperature to become stabilized.
But this is a relatively short process that requires just a matter of minutes each time the electronic equipment is powered on.
When most manufacturers of HiFi equipment suggest that a necessary "break-in" or "burn-in" period is required, it is usually given in Hundreds Of Hours and/or over many weeks or even months, not just a short warm up each time the component is powered on.
Funny that the manufacturer of my incredibly sensitive and extremely low-noise and stable/precise oscilloscope doesn't specify any such required burn-in or break-in period in order for it to be 100% usable and accurate right out of the box. ;)
It can measure down to nanoseconds in the time domain and microvolts, etc. It also requires a fairly complex built-in PSU, but is still only supplied with a basic, standard UL & CE listed 3-prong power cable...
There are no esoteric or exotic power cables supplied or required in order for it to achieve the specifications and tolerances necessary, which are far beyond a typical HiFi amplifier. It is a rudimentary affair to design a PSU that is 100% immune to AC line noise.
Keep in mind that In order to precisely measure all types of minute values and properties of electronic components and circuitry such as amplifiers, or even mil-spec components, the oscilloscope must have extremely tight tolerances and specifications that are much finer and lower in noise as well as free of any fluctuations/variables compared to the equipment that it is tasked to measure (DUT).
In regards to your bass head amp, especially if you store it in a cold and/or damp van, garage, or other environment for any length of time, the PCB and certain electronic components will absorb moisture which can be detrimental and cause PCB issues such as delamination, cold solder joints, or partially torn copper traces that no longer pass the required current.
And when certain electronic components receive power and heat up after sitting in the damp/cold and not being used, the absorbed moisture can cause them to outgas, expand, and change value or tolerances as well.
Look up the Electronic Component and PCB "Baking" Process.
Electronics manufacturers are sometimes required to "Re-Bake" their PCBs to remove any absorbed moisture before shipping them out to end customers if they have been stored and sitting unused for long periods in a warehouse, etc.
HOWEVER, this type of issue should never be a problem with high-end HiFi Electronics that are kept indoors in a relatively temperature-controlled living space and are powered up and used regularly.
In addition, loudspeaker transducers, such as the woofers used in your bass cab (or any HiFi loudspeaker) can also sound very different when they are cold to the point where their suspension is stiff and has not loosened up to a nominal operating temperature.
The CMS, Qtc/Qts and Fs specs can change significantly dependent on the temperature and stiffness or "Compliance" of the suspension...usually the "surround" and "spider", which are referred to as the "soft parts" of a speaker, which includes the cone/diaphragm as well.
Usually the larger the driver, the more susceptible it is to Compliance Variation due to colder temps in particular. This will most definitely have an impact on the resulting sound. For one, it completely changes certain parameters of the driver to the point where the formerly ideal enclosure design is no longer ideal, and the Qtc and thus frequency response will be complete off.
As an example, I have friends who live in places like Minnesota and Wisconsin who have blown and ripped apart their high end car audio subwoofers due to the extreme cold and stiffness of the subwoofer's suspension after the vehicle sits all night outdoors or in a cold garage, and then they start to hammer on their system to help them wake up as soon as they start up the vehicle for their commute to work, LOL.
I could imagine similar circumstances in Toronto's winters for sure! :P
@steved2667
@MikeFromAudioExcellence
FYI, in a separate interview regarding the Relentless 800 amplifiers, Bill McKiegan, President of D'Agostino, stated that before each amplifier is shipped out, it is, in fact, subjected to a Single Overnight BREAK-IN period where they continuously and repeatedly Power On & Off the amplifier every 12 minutes with both channels driven to 100 Watts continuous output.
This is essentially done in order to repeatedly Heat Up & then Cool Down the PCBs and electronic components to try to physically "break" the amplifier and test for potential "cold solder joints" and physical failure rather than to "Burn In" the individual electronic components for settling/stabilization purposes (not necessary).
All of the electronic parameters and specs of the amp are measured both before and after this overnight "break in" process.
So from their perspective, a single 24-hour "break-in" period is all that is required, and this is primarily done to "Pass QC" in order to be shipped out to dealers & clients. ;)
Interestingly, BEFORE this Overnight Break-In test is performed, they strap each amplifier to a vigorous "Shake Table" which they custom designed in-house in order to simulate the vibrations and impact/jolts/bumps of typical shipping transportation.
Bill McKiegan of D'Agostino also stated that these amplifiers were designed & tested to be stable down to 2 ohms, and could potentially operate at 1 ohm temporarily, but that they were not designed or tested for that low of an impedance.
HOWEVER, in order to achieve their full output power and performance potential, Bill also stated that you will need a larger power circuit than the typical 120 VAC 15 Amp or even 20 Amp North American household circuit, implying that a 240 VAC/30 Amp circuit would be ideal, such as what is typically installed as standard in homes to facilitate a household freestanding electric kitchen stovetop and oven/range.
Sorry, you are wrong.
They are 200k lets be real. This is rediculous
ever heard of the word "relative"? For Canadians this is affordable... not so much for Americans 🤣
@@SantanKGhey1234both of you are muppets
why i must listen to your bla bla bla ,instead you let the amplifier speak with music, ill guess you like to hear yourself talking
And I guess you are right
Rude much?
@mcintoshkid
You must be fun at parties.
What preamp were you paired up with relentless 800?
I've got 2 seperate customers who have had nothing but problems with the Relentless Amps overheating ... it's so bad I'm tempted to talk about what a poorly designed amp it is for $250K. It simply should never break. The other amps not so much, but thier top of the line is a real kick in the shorts...
I've got 2 seperate customers who have had nothing but problems with the Relentless Amps overheating ... it's so bad I'm tempted to talk about what a poorly designed amp it is for $250K. It simply should never break. The other amps not so much, but thier top of the line is a real kick in the shorts...
I've got 2 seperate customers who have had nothing but problems with the Relentless Amps overheating ... it's so bad I'm tempted to talk about what a poorly designed amp it is for $250K. It simply should never break. The other amps not so much, but thier top of the line is a real kick in the shorts...
I've got 2 seperate customers who have had nothing but problems with the Relentless Amps overheating ... it's so bad I'm tempted to talk about what a poorly designed amp it is for $250K. It simply should never break. The other amps not so much, but thier top of the line is a real kick in the shorts...
I've got 2 seperate customers who have had nothing but problems with the Relentless Amps overheating ... it's so bad I'm tempted to talk about what a poorly designed amp it is for $250K. It simply should never break. The other amps not so much, but thier top of the line is a real kick in the shorts...