We took a BLIND Audiophile Cable Test
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- čas přidán 21. 04. 2023
- Audio Cables are probably the most divisive products in the audiophile world. Will @Bass_therapy_ and I be able to tell the difference between a $20 Monoprice cable and $200 Audiophile grade cable?
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#audiophile #cables #test - Zábava
Hope you enjoyed the video! Addressing a few common comments.
1. Q: Why not test a cable with different geometry or design?
A: First, I was able to get the bulk cable from a Transparent dealer for $20 (Left over cable from a CI job). Second, I would argue this is a more apples to apples comparison since the design is similar but Transparent does charge substantially more for their cable so certainly there must be something special they are doing to the cable, right? That's my thought at least. Otherwise in this case how does Transparent justify $6/ft when you can get similar cable for $.28/ft elsewhere?
2. Q: This cable is not expensive enough to hear a substatial difference.
A: Multiple reviewers and many of the cable companies themselves say the biggest difference will be heard going from a typical consumer cable to their entry level cables. Ive heard many times the difference from $20->$100 is greater than the difference between $5000->$10000 from multiple very well known reviewers. Diminishing returns would also heavily favor this argument. If the arguement is that the difference wont be heard from $20 until $500 or $1000 you are implying the companies that are offering "entry" level cables at $200 or $300 are essentially just fleecing people.
Your video reminded me of something. My nephew has had experience in the pro audio world since the 80s. He's done design work for Alesis (pro audio gear) and has also done some studio mastering work. You know what kind of interconnects he uses for his own system at home? GE (General Electric) from his local drug store. I found out from him that in the pro audio world, they literally laugh at people who spend insane amounts of money on "high end" cables because they think they sound better.
I admire the honesty in this comparison, but there was an aspect that was overlooked. Human hearing becomes fatigued after 30 minutes; and you then lose treble perception. An adequate rest period for your ears is necessary to accurately hear high end transparency, sizzle, or breathiness.
You’re not a bad audiophile you’re just a honest one. Not sure why cables are the hill that so many “audiophiles” are willing to die on but there’s certainly quite a few of them.
This is the honesty we need 👍
very good & realistic test for most people ,conclusive result is cannot tell difference between cable & emotion on the other hand play a major role .Most people makes judgement by the cable price before listening & that initial impression will set a bias .That name of the cable also does a major role ,as is so many luxury product act the same will . I like it when u call that monoprice .
Very true! I think even color affect this because people say for example Nordost is cold and bright but I think yhe fact their high end cables are silver/white just makes people think that. But like you said, when people have a preconceived notion that a Nordost sounds like this, Cardas sounds like that and they know, they'll hear it regardless if it's really there
a friend of mine gathered a few people together at his home , he has a quality system. He did a blind interconnect test and no one could tell a difference ... one of the cables was made up with a key as part of the conductor
Good Stuff! You are showing how easy it is to setup a blind test with a buddy. I think after people spend big money on their gear, they fear trying tests like this. Ignorance is bliss!
As a noob to the audio world I found this test to be more informative than any empirically derived conclusions. While I fully appreciate the analytical reviews that we so often see, a subjective test like this entertaining and informative.
Next try hearing differences between amps, match levels and let the testing begin
Good one!
It would be interesting to do the same, but with interconnects instead of speaker cable.
Yes! Thinking about doing that, power cords, tweaks the list goes on!
I feel that the test may have been flawed in that both listeners should have worn the same underpants on their faces. Surely that would’ve produced equal humiliation and so a more accurate result.
Underpants 🤣🤣🤣
You know what my POV is on this topic. I would argue that there is very little difference in the speaker cables you A/B'd. Why not try the same thing with cables of a different geometry and/or material...or get some kilobuck cables and see if you still can't hear a difference vs. Monoprice (or even that "DIY" Transparent cable).
great test. thank you for sharing. i've always thought that you have to have extremely sensitive ears to hear the difference between Cable A and Cable B. which is in the end very small and subtle, net NOT worth spending ton on money on them.
unfortunately , some get into the nitty gritty about small insignificant stuff and forget to ENJOY the music.
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Thanks for the nice honest test and it could well be that the DIY cable is almost same as the Monoprice cable hence no difference. Basically test prove you paid too much for the DIY. Useful for someone who is looking to buy that DIY cable as now he/she can save some money buying Monoprice instead. Now do the same test with Monoprice and more expensive cables that have different construction as that's usually where the cost is and see what happens. I know the answer for myself but fun to see other people come to their own conclusions :)
Have any of you 3 ever tryed any cables from G.R. research ?
No
But when do you take hearing fatigue into account? What's more, listening will also change according to mood.
So, to be more accurate, we'd need to multiply by 10 the number of listenings spread over several days, and validate the test on a more realistic statistic such as 75/80% success rate.
Well executed test! 5/5.
Audiophiles: Screeches amounting to No True Scotsman fallacy.
Audio ethusiasts: "Seems about correct and expected"
Speaker cables: "Wish I could trip him over somehow... or suggest you try me at 230VAC" 😂
I'm not convinced cables make a significant difference, it would be interesting to try the same experiment with mans power input and RCA interconnects. I recently purchased expensive toslink cables, 1 wouldn't even manage 192khz, the 2nd one had a rubbish plug that only did 192khz if the plug was angled correctly.
Was curious about this one... we might have learned a little more by running a few more "high end" cables in the test. Was kind of disappointed to see that Transparent cables were used. A few years ago I borrowed a pair of $2500 msrp Transparent 2 meter speaker cables. Had them for about two weeks and thought that if anything they were a step down from some old way less expensive Virtual Dynamics Nite cables I was using. I haven't done any double blind cable testing, but I have never heard a great sounding system when visiting someone who claims that cables don't matter.
A lot would say Transparent is at the forefront of cables. From anyone you talk to from reviewers, dealers, etc. Who are cable faithfuls will tell you the largest differences are from a cheap basic cable to a cable around $75-150 so if anything this would have been very noticible
@@HiFiTurtle Maybe "a lot would say Transparent is at the forefront of cables" , I'm not among them. I admittedly have limited experience and knowledge when it comes to high end cable, but have used cables from Stealth, NBS, Cardas, Synergistic Research, Virtual Dynamics, GR Research and Audio Magic. The only expensive cable that I was disappointed in was the speaker cable I used from Transparent. I can't say everything they sell is snake oil, but that cable was the worst value for the money I've come across so far.
The two choices of speaker cables you have are very similar in design. One is 12 gauge and the other 14, but with the short run of cable you have that likely is a minimal physical difference in the signal.
In general, debates over "cables" start off wrong because first thing that people skip is this: what is a "cable"? There are many kinds of cables used in music reproduction and just using the word "cable" is insufficient.
Speaker wire performance has long (since early in the field) been known to be dependent upon length of cable. The shorter the cable run the less important the nature of the cable. This is because the energy transmitted to the speakers is in the electric field along the entire conductor and the field starts from the amplifier terminals.
*Physical differences in speaker cables are real* , even if the woo-talk manufacturers use in marketing is deceptive. However, the important thing is that the physical differences usually translate to minimal signal differences at the transducers, and these minimal differences likely fall below the ability of us humans to detect, especially in a typical listening room (because of the high noise floor.)
I would agree with that. You can certainly tweak a cable with things that would raise the capacitance and inductance which will have differences, albeit scientifically speaking very small
Blind test is to test your hearing ability, not a test for cables.
This cable debate is truly based on people with different value perspectives, nothing more.
If you start criticizing expensive stuffs in audio industry, you shouldn’t be expecting any improvement in the industry.
Do you guys blind test when you buy a new car? The same V6 engine different auto brand before you buy your car? Why people use different coffee grinder at a great price difference?
More revealing high-end speakers and components, easier to notice the difference with different cables.
Those people who hate expensive stuffs, then they are ok with expensive guitars or violins. Cliches… 😂
@@newdevilman1167 "If you start criticizing expensive stuffs in audio industry, you shouldn’t be expecting any improvement in the industry." - Your conclusion does not follow from your premise. And I'll even go as far to say that you've got it backwards. Without criticism a culture is unlikely to improve, and the culture of audiophilia needs a lot of improvement.
As I noted, the two cables here are really quite similar in design. So why is one 10x as expensive as the other? That is the question to ask yourself.
@@TheDanEdwards that is not the question you ask to yourself. That is the question the market will answer for. Why is Ferrari more expensive than Tesla even though Tesla is faster than Ferrari? People see different values. If the product offered is not as good as it claims? That cable will have bad rep as you say. I do not know those cables, but there are some excellent cables.
No one has ever said that more expensive CD players, amplifiers, DACs or cables actually sound better.
They merely imply it and let your imagination do the rest.
All reviewers, yes all reviewers, know this and that's why they avoid blind listening tests like the plague. The embarrassment would instantly destroy any remaining credibility.
Most of them don't even have good hearing due to age effects.
Nice job guys! Thank you for your video, but I really can heard the difference between Kimber cable and other cheap cables. Also, with harmonic technology rca cable I heard the difference too when I compare it with cheap one. That wasn't a guessing game, but I got these differences right. Now the thing is: the difference doesn't worth the enormous amount of money between the cables.😉
Not all cables are different.. More of them sound pretty much the same.. but there are some that just do something.
There are certainly those who put a low value capacitor or something else that slightly augments the sound
"Some that just do something".......like magic?? LOL! It's called placebo effect.
Don't sweat it. You guys probably did as well as any audiophile would. Some practice can be needed though to know what to listen for.
And for next time, try doing a blind test of the direction of an interconnect cable.
Considering this is essentially bulk stranded vs “upgraded” bulk stranded, I’d be surprised if anyone could consistently tell the difference (regardless of how much Transparent charges for theirs.) Kudos for the effort though. It definitely would be interesting though to compare the bulk stranded Monoprice with a prepared upper end cable with a different geometry and dielectric. After all when it comes to the admittedly-questionable and extreme end of diminishing returns, the deltas if present aren’t going to show themselves in the “entry” level.
See my pinned comment
4 out of 10 is random guessing
Exactly what we said in the video
Well too bad you didn't use the 5000 each side Shunyata cables against a 300 a pair Audioquest so 10k vs 300 dollars because this is where the "Super Sensitive hearing" Audiophile says with No apprehension At All that the Difference is so pronounced that us Normal Audiophiles who can not Hear the difference don't know what we are talking about!
My reasoning for using a Quality Cable on my 5000 dollar speakers is for one thing and one thing Only, the Health of my Equipment, meaning Expensive Vintage Receiver around 5K and 5k Speakers.
My expenditure for these Cables which are Audioquest was 350 Dollars for a 2.5 Meter set with Banana plugs on both ends.
This is my opinion on Cables and Interconnects as well and most likely would be the same if it was a 100k System, just good quality.
My biggest Power conditioner expense was for the Whole House Surge protection installed by a Pro-electrician and 2 Power Conditioner units for the complete system, Total MSRP 3500 And Real Purchase price of 2000. For the Same reason the Health of the Complete 20 to 25k System. I do believe however there really is a small noise Floor Quietness and possibly a difference in overall sound but very minimal for the Dollars Spent.
Glad you guys did the Test, I believe in nothing less than Blind Tests, keep up the great tests. By the way nice Test System!
Test not scientific . You need a control sample as well..
The easiest way to check for a difference is play the same mono signal from both channels then only swap one channels cable.
If there is a difference the sound will no longer lock in the middle.
A more sophisticated way overlay a trace from both channels.
Should add do a control test with same signal and same cables.
The better the components and setup will enable you to hear differences in sound. Cables should be the last tweek in a system.
It takes a good DAC and amp to reveal differences.
I think there’s audible differences between cables but the margin is not night and day. In fact it’s quite subtle. Ime … best tests are cymbals sounds and female vocal sibilance especially. Not hard to detect.
I think this could be the first and last of these AB cable evaluations. Unless you really enjoy doing them. You agree that this is not scientific and any viewer could critique this on just about any level. For example, you say your room is treated but what exactly does that mean and how could we confirm that? Sound memory is also very transient so you might be taking way too much time between each test. You definitely need to have a third party changing the cables. The two of you should not be interacting. So, it being unscientific means that none of this is anything other than just fun. And to make it scientific would probably take a great deal of effort. So I wouldn't really bother. You're not going to present any scientific facts nor change anyone's mind. Because of these results, you may save yourself some money. On the other hand, if there is some belief that cables make a difference, then there's no harm except financially in getting well reviewed cables and giving yourself that placebo effect.
Okay ... late to the party, but this is very typical of all attempts to prove people hear differences between cables... It always resolves to guesswork... because their actually isn't a difference.
Guys... it's just wire.
Pretty much, at least imho, you guys were sort of wasting your time , and I'm very cool with what you guys are doing, I get that you're trying to do an honest test and making a huge effort, so I'm not trying to simply write a negative comment, I definitely liked what you guys did - - a better test is to not be blinded, use one piece of music, get it straight in your head how each cable sounds with that same track - then - do the blind test - same track, just switching the cables, in other words, train yourself to the differences without the blindfold, then do a blindfold test to test yourself - because - that's at the root of what your test is implying, are there a differences or not and can we hear that difference blindfolded - or, are we simply full of s _ _ t, not whether one can discern one cable from another with a variety of music, that's just selecting a "preference" to a random track - and if, btw, one cannot discern any differences when "unblinded" then there's likely not enough difference between the test cables to begin with - which imo doesn't necessarily lead one to assume all cables sound alike either. It would be nice to have more "test" samples to come to any honest conclusions about cable differences in general. That is yeah, it's easy for me to say, not so easy to do, but it would be nice to have a couple of reference, so called high dollar cables claimed to reference as well as the two you guys tested - cables that one might be thinking "should" provide larger gaps in performance. But hey, I enjoyed your presentation all the same - for me, not trying to sound like a "know it all" - but I am being honest, as you described the two cables being compared at the beginning of the vid I was betting that there would be little if any significant differences. btw, like your gear, nice rig.
No such test can refute that cables make a difference. It depends on the cables, system, people used, music played.
Your methodology is basically flawed. You need more trials and the distribution of the test articles needs to obey a specific random distribution. Done properly you should get almost identical fail rates between test subjects.
Well we said it wasn't scientific. Until someone gives me a mythbusters budget probably will continue to be a (somewhat) mystery
you didn't tell us what system you are using, making the whole test useless, cables only matter in a really great system. and i don't think you even said if these are speaker cables or interconnects, oh and i see that "audiophile" cable cost 200 ? that's super cheap, basicaly you setup the test to fail, and you didn't give us any information., unsubscribing
Tell me you didn't watch the video without telling me you didn't watch the video
$200 isn’t remotely “Audiophile” 🤷♂️
See my pinned comment
(very long rant) Equipment are inanimate objects. Audiophile is a loose label describing a mindset. The dollar amount is nearly irrelevant. Just my unsolicited opinion. Danny from GR research got 8/10 separating a decidedly cheap cable from his own special sauce cable, in Dannys own best room using special sauce speakers and room treatment. That was with Danny being present in room possibly getting help from audible cues during cable change over! (The cables was of vastly different construction, would make for different sound when manipulated)
Was it Stereophile..? Or maybe a regular contributor to Stereophile that made a comparison of a bottom of barrel un-named cheap box supplied cable, vs a not quite straightened metal coat hanger, vs 4-figure dollar cable used as interconnect. 2 of 3 "audiophiles" was gushing over the supposed audio quality of a 90 cent coat hanger. Oh rly? Audioquest take notes!! 😂
I have myself tested a mystical interconnect made from litz weaved silver strands, thick as a thumb 3-figure cost cable vs my home made rg-58 bog standard coax on plain gold plated RCA plugs. No chance to tell them apart, but then, I'm not a pro, not a writer, nor would I claim I'm an audiophile.
(Meridian processor + DAC, Fosi Audio v.3 amps, Arendal 1723 monitors, SVS SB16 Ultra subs)
If you like the aestethics, sure splurge on, but to believe it's for amazing audio, doubtful. The impact of a cable is barely measureable in terms of frequency response.
Of course there are situations where an amplifier is so on the edge of self oscillation that "the wrong" load(speaker+cable) just pushes it beyond breaking point. In such cases, sure -a specific cable might make system dysfunctional with clearly audible and maybe smoke signals.
When differences are small, it's important to set the test up so that one is able to switch instantly back and forth between DUTs (devices under test). When possible, a recording can be made instead of listening live, making it easy to switch quckly between sound files for comparison.
Even small differences will make a difference in a multi-component system, where they add up along the signal chain and have a significant net impact on both immersion and listening fatigue.