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Hi-fi BLIND A/B test - Super Expensive vs Cheap Speaker cable !
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2020
- We compared between two audiophile grade speaker cables. Very expensive speaker cable versus a reasonably good speaker cable. Do cables make a difference in audio? let's find out.
Cables tested:
MG Audio Design Planus IV AG ($4800) vs Blue Jean Canare Speaker cables ($120 inc shipping)
link to Jay's Blind A/B tests (full video): • Jay's speaker cable bl...
Blue Jean Cables: amzn.to/32fYeC9
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#Cables #Audiophile #hifi
Update: people are wondering why we did not do an ABX test instead of an AB test. Welp, video coming soon "why blind ABX test for Audio is Invalid"
Blue Jean Cables: amzn.to/32fYeC9
Blue jean cables were bought - This video is not sponsored at all. This video was made possible by Patreon support
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Hope you are providing scientific reasoning behind ABX test for audio being invalid. Please provide your credentials for making such a statement. If you're referencing past studies or articles for your statement I'm curious as to the sources.
Did you check that the levels matched? Closer than +-0.1dB is required.
Try Cooper vs silver on your s400 i Think they have silver internal cables.
Are you making the same test with interconmects? :):)
@@johnpereira6934 there is no objective reasons why. 'X' removes the statistical anomaly of a period sample. It reduces the odds of a skewed result from a limited sample range. 'Cable exponents' have not been able to show a consistent result, pass a guess, in 'ABX' testing. Because of this, this testing must be flawed even though this basic scientific mode of evaluation is acceptable for everything else outside hifi. On a 50:50, 51 keeps open the question.
There will always be an excuse why ABX 'failed'. Even level matched from a modern electronic source (for phonos direct from the cart, yes, the sound will be affected by the cable because of the capacitance. Modern domestic outputs overcome these minute differences...) maybe the 'switcher' or manual switching was detrimental etc etc.
You guys did a completly invalid test in the 1st place. You did not have candidates repeat results in a 2nd round. Imagine if it was visual to test colur blindness, they do the same quick set of tests multiple times. If they cant repeat their results then its random choosing (they can't tell the diff). You do the same for this test. Oh and changing the tracks? Seriously? If y can't tell the diff in 30s, repeatedly, then u cant. Only in audiofile land can u get away with this.
Just tape a book to your cables and they’ll increase value by $5000.
All expensive cables have a good story attached to them
They do, but that story is pure fiction, fantasy even.
Next round I'd really like to see an AAB test. Simply described: pick 2 pairs of cables, but listen 3 times, twice using one cable and once with the other, but the person listening doesn't know which cable is used twice, and whether they were used as AAB, ABB, ABA, BAB, etc.
The goal of the listener is to identify which 2 of the 3 plays of the track were with the same cables.
This experiment type is great for identifying if differences are actually consistently detected.
ABX en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABX_test
how about an ABBA test. They'd play Dancing queen etc ... 🤣😂
Switching between electronics and cables without pausing between is USELESS !
The brain keeps on decoding the same way error correcting or seconds after the switching .........this has been proven but ignored by some i(au)diophyles .
Perhaps introducing a control group that is told they have a cable swap but never have a swap. See if they still perceive a difference.
Testing for the placebo/nocebo effect..
That wouldn't be a balanced test. You could say: "Either we are swapping cables, or we are not". That's "testing for a difference". You cannot lie about the test setup, otherwise the scientific value is zero.
This was not a double blind test. Please do a double blind test with good affordabe cables and extremer priced ones.
If it is so difficult to hear differences this is the last thing to spend your money on... upgrade other components like speakers and invest a bit in room acoustics. Just my 2 cents.
exactly what we said and we agree
These 3 guys heard the difference 100% of the time. So is it really that hard to hear the difference?
@@aaronm.3581 good they can hear it, I assume it was blind testing to avoid psycho acoustic effects. When you change something, and specially when is cost a lot of money, you think to hear a difference. Therefore is blind testing the only way. I testes speaker cables 2500$ versus 150$ once’s. We could not hear nor measure a difference. But if someone can, good for them, when they are happy with the new product that is all what matters…
I just personally think that it's Awesome to see young Audiophiles with this much dedication! Awesome channel from a middle aged fart! :)
Kudos. Great experiment. It's very refreshing to see all you open to the experience and talking so openly about the results. Wanna know something? Go and check.
As a skeptic. I am in the cable denier camp. Not that my Audiophile buddies have not tried. They cannot get past my bias that I do not hear a difference, because I do not expect to. To name but a few, we tried speaker cables from MIT, Monster, Kimber, Nordost, Cardas, and Audioquest. Despite all their efforts, my friends could never convince me that cable A over B impacted my system's sound, for good or ill. Regardless, I applaud your efforts and courage. Such an honest attempt at seeking the truth earns my deepest respect. Great Job.
To me this has been very speaker dependent. After getting a b&w 800 series speaker, I seem to hear the smallest upstream change (not always a good thing) where before I had a hard time telling the difference when changing anything. Not saying this is your situation, just relaying my experience!
This test is very flawed. For starters, they have not checked the cables for level changes. There is no control and they say getting 3 times in a row is somehow significant. Their statistical methods SUCK and they obviously have no clue about any of this. Even the 8/10 is not enough, it HAS TO BE 9/10 or better.
Don't be fooled by amateur audiophiles making amateurish tests..
SquidCaps ah, it’s just a bit of fun. I don’t hear them claiming their method is water tight, quite the opposite.
@@squidcaps4308 Hardly any empirical proof of anything, yes. That being said, this is a hell of a lot more information (Albeit not scientific.) than anything the cable companies have provided. I am sure Jay and the crew would love to have done a double-blind study with a control group and then backed up their findings with the results from a T-Test.
For a couple of young folks doing this out their house with no education in research design and statistics, not to mention having sufficient financial resources and facilities. I still respect the effort. This never came across to me as any attempt to deceive anyone. This is nothing more than some folks having some fun, which is what the hobby is supposed to be about.
@@squidcaps4308 just a correction. We said 3/5 was insignificant. Not significant.
The levels were matched.
9/10 and 5/5 we said was significant.
Ive spent 4 years in the front line of human hearing research which involved many types of testing methods but also funding and
Considering we had no budget for this video. Id say it was a good fun. Does it suck? Is it flawed? Hell yes. And thats the first thing I said in the video
Completely agree that specs should be clear so people can start making more informed decisions on their cables.
i agree or people will spend money and not like what they get
ha! listening to this through a 100% Blue Jean cable system (speaker and interconnect cables)
Blue Jean is just a cable store that sells Belden, Canare and other cables, isn't it?
Oh man. I flashed back to my statistics for scientific evaluation class I took durning my psych degree.
lol!
One major problem with your study is that the blindfold is worthless if the person listening can hear people come into the room to switch the cables. Also, Just asking if a person can hear a difference indicates that something in the system has changed. When I fist got into HIFI in the early 70's I went to the house of a very nice Audiophile to start educating myself and buy a pair of nice speakers. He was also an electrical engineer and told me that speaker cables made little difference and he proved it. He had a box he made where the signal output could be selected by a push of a button and had four different speakers cables attached. He had me bring my favorite record at the time and played through the tracks changing the cables at random while I sat with a blindfold on. He did not ask me if I heard any difference but had me write down on a pad if/when I thought the cables had been changed. We repeated the experience over the course of two weeks. He lived next door!! I even repeated this experiment over the following two years after I had had extensive listening with my system. I could not consistently tell when the cables were changed let alone any major difference between the cables.
You should have let the girl finish her impression of the cables instead of switching to another reviewer.
That was a bit rude I recon
@@daftpaolo9789 Yes definately, infact her opinion had potential to be genuine unbias comment made from general non audiophile audience. What a bad move these dude have done.
This just proves what 46 year's in this Hobby had already taught me.
Although High end cable's are not completely bullshit.....
They remain mostly bullshit
I agree about better vs cheaper cable. When I upgraded my cable, I definately noticed an improvement in clarity and space. I didn't spend thousands of $ but I do recommend upgrading.
I also have observations in your listening. Your chair is too high behind you and changes the sound. Also, and I've tested both of these theories, that your baseball cap also fucks up the sound directly in front of you. Other than that, I enjoy your channel and always learn a little something. Remember, the cap has to go for music!
"Your chair is too high behind you and changes the sound." Yes, I think so too.
Bravo, guys! Thanks for doing this. I have Blue Jeans Canare speaker cables in my system, and this test makes me feel good about my choice. I’ve tried more expensive cables and seem to go back to my BJC’s. But...If your system is revealing enough, and you feel you can benefit from pricey cables, than do so and no one should fault you for it either. To each their own.
I fully understand that, but Blue Jeans terminated Canare cables with banana plugs using their welding system.
Also thank you for mentioning impedance and capacitance changing from different cables. Seems like really high end speaker cables change the impedance with so much material mass.
increasing the capacitance with all the individually jacketed sections
A few pF or a few nH can't change the frequency response. Perception is powerful.
Very disrespectful for not letting the young lady give her opinion
Yes, moreover he said ,,women hear differently,, and also ,,on some cables she could hear a difference immediately,,.
When did a speaker cable become a tone control? I recall a conversation with someone in the industry. He asked me what is the purpose of the cable?
Answer, to do nothing, just carry the signal from A to B.
I have found that some cables do affect the sound, hard to explain other than resistance or other mechanical things.
Spot on. The signal should be the same from source to speaker. Better off spending the money on hardware for significant improvements.
@R J not sure what you are trying to say? Please explain.
@R J well buying dollar store cables is not the way to go. You would most likely experience failure of terminations over time. However, proper guage OFC or Silver of reasonable cost is all you need. They will carry the required current and be manufactured properly. Anyone can spend what they like but to say white noise insulation will be improved by cables is debatable let alone improving fidelity. Agree with you on the more expensive cables argument.
R J The quality of the copper used, the gage, length and resistance do play a part in how cable can affect the sound.
I only use Mogami RCA cables and speaker wires in my system. Not too expensive and sounds great. Its the only brand I will use for now.
I use thick speaker cables and any old interconnects that are scattered around. All work fine.
Just some tips. Instead of the usual bitching about speaker cables
1) buy 1.5m, 1m or 3m cables to reduce chances of getting reflections and artifacts
2) Get something that's shielded. Chances are you may be listening through a computer as the source and computers are pure non stop EMI (electromagnetic interference)
3) the cable itself just needs to be shielded and the pair be twisted on the inside but the terminal material matters a lot as well. Make sure you're getting pure oxygen free copper. Silver or gold plated doesn't matter as much as the quality of the copper and the way its terminated.
Best wishes to all and I hope we all continue to enjoy this great hobby we share and share love of all things music and movies
Thanks for doing this. PS; Thomas must have been at home, sleeping with his new Wharfedale Speakers & Stands! I can't blame him, they are really sweet.
Yeah the divorce papers are in the post I think hahaha
@@johnsweda2999 lmaoooo
@@stephencosta6814 hopefully it's not an insult
You guys really knocked it out of the park with this one!
I tried all sorts of cables from the cheapest one being a lamp cord; Mica to the most I could afford, Audioquest and Van Den Hul.
I ended up with the majority of my cables being Blue Jeans on my all separates: PS Audio rig and Tekton, Kef, Wharfedale and Ohm speakers.
You guys are validating all my findings that expensive cables make a difference but not necessarily “better“ and definitely worth spending money in my opinion in actual separate components or speakers for the same price that will make more difference.
Thank you for all the efforts you put into this and helping me confirm that my quest for more expensive cables might be over. 👊🏻
Great job! Wish I'd have found this video/comparison sooner. I've spent hours reviewing many, many videos and articles. It's also so nice to know I made a good choice with my Bluejeans cable choice! Validation is the payout for confirmation bias! Fortunately, I cannot afford thousands of dollars for cables.
“validation is the payoff for confirmation bias!”
g-damn Zizendorf, that hit so hard
Cables don't need to be expensive, it's mostly what people are willing to pay. I do think that there's some difference between them for sure, but not always better. I remember trying an audioquest RCA and returned it that same day, used a Norne headphone cable for a little and sold it. I did end up buying and keeping the latest revision Audeze stock cables for my headphone, both balanced and SE they do improve things for me.
I agree with the person who said we should not be thinking about cables. I wanted to get myself to that point. Cables may make a difference, I really don't care that much. My approach for speaker cables was as follows: Buy a good bulk cable that is from a respected manufacture and I wanted a thicker cable from a cosmetic perspective. I went with this very same Canare cable. Then to seek out a durable solidly built RCA that had very good contact area and pressure. Then built them myself with Techflex sleaveing over the gray jacket. THey look crazy nice. Interconnects, did not want to go DIY on these. Went with Best Cables in the Wold interconnects. Again chose Canare cable and these come with Amphenol RCAs which is a great professional and respected RCA connector. In the end, I'm not worried about the durability or quality of my signal chain at all. Yes, I could spend a $1,000+ on these but why when the improvements would be so incremental. Rather have a new DAC for $1K :) P.S. also think my system doesn't have the resolution to really justify or even notice perhaps the incremental improvement.
The bigger problem is the limited number of subjects selected by age, degree of hearing, trained listening, the list goes on. Then there is the audio side, type of amp, quality of speakers, audio source and that list goes on. One would need a sample size of at least 1000 and 1500 would be better to get a multi variate analysis that was both valid and generalizable.
That's why these cable debates go on ad infinitum with no final conclusions. You can see how much work these guys put in to get this video. A larger number of subjects would be very time consuming and expensive to do. Great job, guys.
Awesome guys! Keep up the good work. Jay stepping up the
game.
Thanks for this video. A and B were different but I preferred A. Like you mentionned, the difference does not justify the price tag and what is really causing this difference? I just want the signal to be carried by the cable with the least alteration possible. So there is a difference but the hefty price tag certainly doesn't equal to betterness or better quality. I would rather be trying different inexpensive ones now than cheap vs expensive.
Super interesting! More of this kind of videos.
Did you ever do a fake swich. So that you use the same cable twice where the listener does not know. This would show if expectations make you imagine a difference where there is none
I'd be interested to see cables such as these compared to AmazonBasics, which I think a lot of people (myself included) use for even lower budget systems than ones that would make sense with BJC.
I have an Amazon Basics USB cable. I may need to test others (to confirm whether it might be faulty) but it sounds awful compared to my £30 USB cable.
That's basically impossible. A USB cable doesn't transmit sound it transmits data, ones and zeros. If they get through you get sound, if they cable is faulty you will get no sound at all. It can't change the character of the sound, increase or decrease the soundstage or put more air between the violins or any such stuff. It either works or it doesn't.
Good for you, good test. Blue Jean Cable is basically Belden 8477 cable, 2 conductor twisted jacketed cable. The blue Jean website pricing is about 30% markup same cable that you can purchase from Digikey or Mouser or Anixter. Of course on Digikey... you have to buy a 500ft spool. I have been preaching this cable is the best honest value cable you can buy. The Monoprice cable is pretty much the same.
Well there is a small amount of effect based on the gauge and design of a cable to the signal it is carrying. For speakers this is more significant than it is for a lamp since the speaker load is less than 8 Ohms typically. Resistance of 12ga wire while very thick is around 0.2 Ohms per 100ft. Two parallel conductors spaced closer together vs apart have affects on lower frequencies called eddy currents. Twisting conductors reduces capacitance between conductors which affects higher frequencies. This is why a Loose, twisted pair of 12ga wires will in most cases help reduce all 3 of those problems.
Appreciate you guys being fearless and doing these comparisons. This type of stuff not happening in this industry is due to ego, money, and people getting way too serious. Keep being different and having fun! :)
Interesting result. There are a couple of sound demos of audioquest speaker cables on CZcams. And surprisingly often I find the difference even on a recording quite significant. That said I'd never drop 4 figures on a cable.
Audioquest is known for prepping their demo by progressively raising the volume as the cables tested get more expensive. It's impossible to hear a difference between adequate cables. It's been proven again and again. People can"t hear a difference between coathangers and uber-expensive speaker cables. The same thing actually goes for (non-tube) amplifiers. If it's got a flat response, low distortion (below 0.01%, which all competent amp clears easily), sufficient damping factor and enough power to drive your speakers it will be to totally transparent and sound exactly the same as every other amp that clears these requirements
@@felixfranzen7318 oh, I didn't know. What you please share your proof that audioquest is tampering with the volume during demos?
❤ Kimber Kable publishes numbers with the 12TC and the 8TC. Love Kimber. Absolute Sound likes them too!
Inherent problem: You were actively listening for differences.
Idea: Go switch cables for a bunch of audiophiles without their knowledge, and see how many of them react.
There are two components that factor in to the electro-magnetic world:
One factor is the electrical characteristics, which can be measured. As you mentioned, resistance, capacitance, impedance, etc.
The second factor is the magnetic portion. Science cannot even begin to explain what a magnetic field actually is. That's where the word "magic" originates from. If there is a change in the dielectric, that has an influence on the magnetic field around the conductor. If the magnetic field gets "squashed" on one side, due to a cable laying on the floor, that's going to have an impact on the sound. That's why cable risers work.
Also, the cable is passing varying different frequencies. Low frequencies are easier to pass through any medium than higher ones. That's why bass can be heard sometimes through walls, and several miles through air, but higher frequencies sometimes get rolled off or dissipate quickly.
The speeds at which cables can pass the signal from frequency to frequency vary as well. This propagation speed from frequency to frequency might vary which in turn will influence the sonics.
As a signal passes through a cable some frequencies might be able to flow easier than others, which would explain audible sonic differences between different cables, throughout the frequency range which affects tonality.
The number one factor that cannot be measured is sound stage characteristics. With my first major RCA cable swap, the tonality did change, as the higher end cable was able to pass the top frequencies with more ease, the treble had to be lowered significantly. But more importantly, there was more negative space around each instrument.
Instrument separation is what a highly resolving system will demonstrate. Sound stage size is a hard quality to measure. Getting the Left channel vs Right channel in perfect time and phase and level at the listening position is extremely difficult to achieve. Most listeners will not take the necessary steps required to achieve sonic bliss.
It's all about having the speakers and the room work in concert with one another. Hard to do, unless the room is purpose built and the designer of the room and system has the knowledge and understanding of acoustics, room treatment techniques, speaker placement, listening position placement, golden ratio, reflections, comb filtering, cancellations, room nodes, boosting, etc.
But most importantly is having the first hand experience of what to do to fix/and or deal with these issues.
To go with any DAC, even the expensive ones you presented, I recommend the excellent RCA coaxial cable from Fos Power, 75 Ohm, bought on Amazon, which costs only 7 euros! (I use it on the Topping E30)
It sounds natural, is well balanced. It has plenty of bass and slam, its treble is not fatiguing. It is better than the Mogami 2964 which is worth 5 times more.
Thank you ALL for trying this! I've heard the term "A-B test" so often, but have never seen even this type of approximation done before. My impression - next time ask "is it A or B?" before asking "which you prefer?" Secondly, the recording has a huge influence on which is the perceived differences and preferred cable.
Which do you prefer is more pertinent. Trying to guess a option is like second guessing and mucks up the process. Hoping you like the expensive serves nothing but snobbery. If you consistently prefer one and it happens to be more affordable option, all the better because you can spend the saved money on better room treatment.
Thumbs up to the video and thumbs up to the effort put into the testing. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
nothing scientific here, but a fun video. thanks. properly made cables all sound the same, if you feel otherwise its not your hearing, its your mind telling you there must be a difference due to past opinions, peer pressure, etc... still, loved it. thanks again.
A very extensive effort made. Salute to you from India.
I was in engineering for 35 years so I know how to judge the materials used to make cables. I really don't see the point in using very expensive cables but I do think what cables you use affects the sound but others may feel differently. I did a lot of FCC compliance testing so I understand how important layout and shielding is, impedance matching in some cases can also be critical. The quality of materials used is important but fancy wire coverings and exotic materials seldom have any real impact, I don't spend extra for window dressings.
My system consists of a Rogue RP5, a PS Audio Perfect Wave Dac, 2ea m700 mono blocks and a pair of Elac AF61 speakers. The analog end is Music Hall MMF7 with a Denon 301-II MC cartridge and a home built LaPacifica phono preamp.
I've used Canare 4s11 speaker wire (bought from Blue Jeans) for about a year now. The cable was sold by the foot and I put my own banana plugs on, I think good banana plugs cost as much as the 2.5m wire. My RCA interconnects are the entry level Morrow Audio cables. The USB cable is a Beldon Gold(?)
Yes I have the Canare 4s11 too, very decent cable for its Price. Supra quadrax is similar too, for the ratio quality/Price. That,s it.
BJC has a few different cables on their site. I use the Belden 10-gauge from them, which I like.
Audioholics recommend also 10 gauge cables as a sure value for speaker cables.
GR research may be a place to shop. That dude impresses me. No BS and matter-of-fact about FACT.
LOL.
He is truly matter-of-fact selling BS. But there is no way he would allow ab testing or share his unwritten tests he's done. Because they are just untestably, unquestionably awesome.
Thanks for the video, however please don't cut off what they had experienced as i was interested in hearing what Tujan, if i have spelt that correctly had to say. He was giving some good detail in what he had experienced and you just cut him off. You had done this in a different video also with the buchardt S300 when his opinion is quite insightful as i was interested in buying a pair
Lesson: spend the bucks on better speakers instead, where greater improvements per dollar can be obtained. Or on active multiamping---which can work relative miracles in my experience, especially in soundstaging.
Great advice👍
You have my admiration and applause for the courage to carry out a blind test and publish the results.👍🏻 I have personally participated in such tests, so I know what the likely results are for speaker cables. Well done guys! 👏🏻😉
I have all blue jeans in my vintage Mcintosh/klipschorn set up. I picked up a set of monoprice monolith cables/RCA’s to do an AB... but I’m too lazy. I will one day. Maybe I’ll make a vid
I,m a Brit living in the US the marketing prowess here is off the charts and starts at a young age,with every product segment imaginable convincing us fast food is good, with this supplement will we can look like Arnold!
The saying if you leave the decision up to the customer you have already failed and
I think that's where we are with cables yes there is a difference but you make the tiniest of differences as wide as you can with clever marketing.
Cables make minute differences undetectable by an ordinary ear. One needs an extraordinary pair. Best to invest in better components
@Fat Rat I am adamant that my molecular modified solid aluminium alloy cables infused with bull semen opened up the soundstage with huge depth, improved bass dynamics and impact, treble extension and sweetness, and midrange clarity over my previous copper cable that were fed to my cat and pooped out. I guess the cat and pooping is only good for coffee beans.
Fat Rat so suggest me 2 brands so that I hear the difference. Difference means “ improvement” and it should be worth the cost.
Fat Rat u have no ordinary ears for sure. Good luck and enjoy the musics
It was interesting to hear the comments. There was a divide between clarity and soundstaging and although Jay didn’t pursue it there was a way that mastering for music types played a role. If price wasn’t a variable i.e. both cost the same it seems that presentation of the music genre a listener likes would be the major consideration. Expensive cables usually are an upgrade because they bring something significant into play that cheaper ones miss. They are more expensive because they are commissioned and built in smaller batches than the cheaper cables and might use unusual metallurgy and insulation. Well done Jay for going the extra mile to examine how cables affect presentation in the real world.
For almost $5000 (and almost $7000 Canadian!!) vs $120 USD (shipped!) there should be NO QUESTION and NO DOUBT which cable is better! Not 3:2 or even 4:1. There should be like 10000:1 that the expensive one wins... Which (obviously) wasn’t the case, even with the owner himself.... Bravo Blue Jeans cable. P.S. People like to waste money....
Or show off... But most of Them Do have money, so in the final it,s their money...
I had a few sets of old speaker wire sitting around the house. I sold them all and then only had to come up with $100 CAD extra to buy this speaker wire.
Cable is a conductor sending signal from A to B, it can’t improve the signal only degrade it, some degrade more on high frequency some on lower frequency, so the bottom line is…no cable is the best cable, and shorter cable is better cable! Longer cable degrade more, I don’t care how good the cable is. Try compare a similar gauge similar material shorter lower cost cable to a longer much more expensive cable…the result could be shocking!
Funny thing is…no one mention the effect of length on cable…
If the sound that comes out of my system blows me away it's all I can ask. Cables are not going to change bad sound. Great post guys, one of the most effective ever for the cable opinions.
When I had my first proper jbl speakers with a Yamaha amp in 2004, they blew me away. The whole rig cost me $1200. Now at 50, I realise that system was too aggressive. I don’t require big watts. Now I have pass lab sit3, XP10, jelco TT with DL110, Zu omen. Now I hear depth in instruments after my power amp approaches optimal temperature. Both myself and my bank is blown away😁. One could only improve per his bank balance. A good full rig starts from $10,000 and I am conservative saying this
This would obviously be a lot more effort but it would be very interesting to A/B test some more "transparent" industry standard cables like Mogami, Gotham, and Canare. If people struggle to find a difference between cables like those then you could assume that they are actually doing their job of 'getting out of the way' of the sound. Worlds Best Cables sells all these brands on Amazon for fairly cheap.
Nice to see somebody doing blind A/B tests with audio gear.
Interesting. But in my opinion to go to that extreme to hear the difference between a $4000.00 cable and a $40.00 cable - if you can barely tell the difference - you are missing the point of stereo - it's to enjoy the music! Forget the the hype and just enjoy your sound!
Exactly my philosophy with stereo. It's not about the analysis of the music, but the experience and enjoyment of it. As long as you personally enjoy your system it's good enough.
Les you are so right! Sorry we are just audio nerds / tweakers, just looking for the next hit, whatever we can find that gives us the next thrill :)
@@nileshbarai4999 No reason to apologize! Because of people like you - companies have been forced to improve their products!!
If you drop a slice of buttered toast, chances are it will land butter side down, 8 times out of 10. If you toss a coin a sufficient number of times, chances heads will be face up 50% of the time. If you put an infinite number of monkeys in front of an infinite number of typewriters, chances are one monkey will reproduce the entire works of William Shakespeare.
Why do so many people challenge the validity of cables making a difference? If it were fact, it would be blatantly obvious and beyond question. But if cables can cause subtle differences at great expense? Wouldn’t it make more sense to invest that money, somewhere where it makes a palpable difference? You could mark the rims of your CD disks with a green felt-tipped pen. You could cryogenicly treat all your electronics. Etc.
nce
This is new to you because you all are young. A/B/X testing was dome back in the 1980's at several audio magazines. Cables can make a big difference, that is why there are so many hi--end and not so high-end cable brands. Free market options 👍
I've lived through 40 years of this eternal argument. Your kids and their kids will still be arguing the same argument.
FYI, Kimber Kable publishes measurements for their speaker cables (Cp) parallel capacitance, (Ls) series inductance, and (Rdc) dc loop resistance) on their website.
This is a great idea, i thought about doing this myself since no one else has but I dont have the resources.
One suggestion, to save some time, put both speakers side by side in the center, have one speaker hooked up with one cable and the other speaker with the other, no cable switching necessary.
I take the view of not getting the cheapest cable but getting the cheap end of audiophile cable. Effectively I won't spend more than $100 on a speaker cable pair {my lengths about 12 feet}. I have better things to spend my money on. I suspect there is a difference but its not enough to worry about. Now I'm using Dirac I'm doubly sure it's not worth spending more.
Doing a blind A/B test with a certain logic to achieve an end result, is never a "stupid" act. You guys hammered out a Yes/No test. Although not fully scientifically sound, it hits home to the average user in providing guidance. Anything further than this should be reviewed in a more clinical setting. Nice Work!!
The fact that this test proves that some/most people can hear a difference between 2 cables forces me to an apology for some "snakeoil" comments that I might have posted in the last years.. 😀 That being said this is a massive rabbit hole for any Hifi enthusiasts and we might see Mr audioquest popping up like jack in the box on some youtube channels again 😀
It might not be snake oil but it takes a very experienced listener to tell them apart. It’s insignificant enough to count as snake oil for me personally at least.
That is not what this proves.. This proves nothing. Not even 8/10 is still a proof, that is still within coin flip range. It has to be 9/10 or better. They say things here like "he chose 3 times in a row the same".. Take a coin. Get 3 heads in a roll.
The conclusion he is that this test is inconclusive. And what is worse, they did not measure that the levels are same, even though it should not make a difference, any test without proper level matching is invalid.
SquidCaps it proves that it’s definitely not worth the money
@@squidcaps4308 exactly !!
@@Ceko Remember Jay's girlfriend, a non-audiophile could tell the difference in about a minutes and she said it was a noticeable difference
Can we do power cord too?
This is what I'm most interested in!
One other "test" is to take the same people and tell them that you changed something, but in fact do not change a thing. Then see if people tell you no difference or if they PERCEIVE a difference thinking something was changed.
A/b/c/d test!!! Straight wire/twisted/braided/pvc-pe-ptfe)
I use a pair of Audioquest speaker cables that retail at the price of a second hand car, the shop let me have them for a hundred bucks. The saving made them sound awesome ;) and the only spec I needed, but actually the main reason was the difference in length to the old wire that allowed me to place my speakers properly. But yeah, really, I'm an ex-pat Yorkshire skinflint with cloth ears who loves to boast about false economies. I saved almost 2000 dollars tha' knows!
lol how long did your gf stop talking to you because she looked pissed 😂
which cables are being compared are part of the success of the test results. If one cable that is mismatched to the system, regardless of the price, it won't sound very good. There are high end audio equipment mfg.'s that warn customers that some cables are NOT recommended due to some aspect like capacitance level, etc. and they might recommend other cables that are better suited. Pre-amp to power amp interconnects can also be impedance matching for some cable mfg. MIT Cables, for example, has some of their high end interconnects that have a selector switch to chose one of three different impedances so it matches the output impedance in the Pre amp. This is a very critical thing for some gear/cables..
Another consideration might be the internal cables of a speaker as they might choose a specific brand and they might recommend that brand of cables to use.. There was one article about 30 years ago where someone went to the speaker mfg. and asked them to use a specific brand of internal wiring to see if internal wiring of a speaker would make the speakers sound different. The result of that was that internal wiring makes a difference and even the mfg. engineer was impressed on how much difference cables internal to a speaker can make a big difference.. I know that Wilson Audio uses Transparent Audio internal wiring and they usually recommend Transparent Audio cables..
Nice presentation Jay, over 60 years experience....... I still go by the old adage "How much is the (DIFFERENCE WORTH) ? also, in any test you can always find variables, and difference(s): Speakers A & speaker B., both sound good with Wire "A" , but Wire "A" is outstanding with Speaker "C"..., hopefully people get the point.... because this could go on forever..... it's endless. My goal over the years has been to hear the Music basically, as it was produced... so one cable sounds a little Warmer, than another..... is it to such a degree, that your going to put out $1000.00 for that Minute Difference? Pay what it takes to get you to the PLEASURE ZONE, don't chase every little he said she said thing etc., But, if you feel you have to pay $4000.00 for Speaker Cables, go ahead. But you'll never get $4000.00 worth of difference at best 10-15% maybe. My ideal of being a Audiophile, is to enjoy the music, not to see how much Money I can spend. It's the law of diminishing returns. Anyway, you guys keep up the good work!
So...experienced listeners CAN hear a difference. It would be cool to have tested a more reasonable top price like $400 instead of $4000, since most won’t ever spend that.
Yes agreed, and compare that with a 2 dollar lamp wire.
I agree, speaker cable can get crazy expensive, well so can the other cables, did you know the main power cord in that system is also over $4000
Really good video Jay. I enjoyed your discussion and transparency regarding the limitations of your study. I am about to upgrade from my new C49 to a C2700 because of a long period of listening I had with the C2700 after McIntosh support bricked my C27 walking me through a firmware upgrade. I realized I had more moments of being struck by listening enjoyment during that loaner period, than by any period of listening I can remember. While it would take a longer period of time to do such a test on cables, that to me is what we all want - to maximize our long-term listening pleasure. Really looking forward to your marriage of both the art and science of this hobby as your education continues. Keep up the great work.
The mix down can differ so much between tracks. Surely rule number 1 is keep the track the same. For me at least a few mins listening to a song doesn’t fatigue my ears enough to rule out a 2nd or 3rd listen.
It is an exceptionally dull experience comparing cables. We had an XLR interconnect bake-off between mixer and Monitors. £10 Van Dam vs £50 ? vs £100 Linn. There were very subtle differences in tonal balance but the Van Dam was plenty good full bandwidth. Maybe the Linn was a little clearer but lighter in the Sub. I was so bored. I love HiFi but listening to cables sucks arse. Thanks for going to the trouble to show that there can be noticeable differences while keeping it real that those differences aren't always better. Some people have more money than sensibility. Bit rude cutting off Rebecca but she looked bored to death.
Gotta do all the tests with 1 set of cables. Gotta take the mentality out if it. You use 1 set for every test and just ask which is preferred and they choose differently you know it’s invalid.
But wait….. the most meaningful answer you didn’t entertain….
Rebecca was about to say the most important comment that would have been superbly useful.
She started, “ there’s a difference…. If you like to listen to rock….. “ she then got shut down and went to the next person
Please ask Rebecca to finish the sentence and let me know what she said. While this video was useful…ill save it and share it…it only confirms what i already knew.
What would have been useful to know for me is exactly what she was going to say.
Thasnks
The reviewers complained about expensive cable companies not listing basic specs ...fair enough ....but blue jeans with the exception of their proprietary interconnect which looks very appealing for money and subwoofer cables ... use belden cable and place their blue jean s logo on it ...😂😂😂....plus many expensive cable companies have many more patents than blue jeans can only dream of...which probably alter many of the electrical characteristics of their cables to give them their specific voicing...
Specific voicing? A cable should carry the signal from a to b and not provide any form of tone control.
@@a0r0a7 ...i agree....thats a great ideal to have for many audiophile s....nothing altered... only the very nature of the signal should be replicated...however 1. some audiophile s have a philosophy that all that matters is..... tailoring the sound to their individual taste...and its a democracy....they are entitled to their own listening taste just like people are entitled to different preferences in food and wine even though food and wine have no perfect representation in reality of a true ideal like real sound does to a stereo system..people still are free like reality of sound altered if its pleasing and enjoyable to their own ears . 2.Hypothetically at least and assuming 1 believes in the sonic difference s in audio cables to begin with...each cable companies brands own dielectric s, cable geometry, different metallurgy of the conductors themselves, connector material and geometry , battery bias system of the dielectric, networks for noise reduction and harmonic articulation , shielding materials and number of shields and if they are floating or connected to ground are all going to at least ...maybe..subtly affect how the cables sound and sometimes a cable brands house sound emerges as a result of similar design choices if they are consistent through the product range and i doubt 1 brand would be neutral in all different scenarios of whole system synergies but of course there would be possible combinations that sound close to neutral for listeners looking for that high ideal
@@mikelanden very in depth reply. Anyone is entitled to spend what they like on whatever they want. I am just stating the purpose of a cable. If someone feels spending thousands on speaker cable will make a difference then fine. I know what I would choose to do. If you are saying some audiophiles like to tune the sound to their taste then use tone controls or graphic equalisers and room correction software. I think that would be cheaper and reap much better results.
@@a0r0a7 ...i agree...with most of your assertion ...to spend thousands of dollars on a tone control in the cable domain...instead of getting the system correct from the point of origin with the best speakers, recordings, effective acoustic treatment , and optiminal speaker positions possible is kind of wasteful ..however for cable believers the answer is more convoluted than that...because many expensive cable brands do offer scientific measurements that may improve the sound in an objective manner besides having a HOUSE sound (which is inevitable to a certain extent ...and applies to all different component categories ...example ... the very best speakers with electrostatic technology, cone s and Horn speakers are always going to sound different from one another no matter how neutral they are in their respective categories and have their own idiosyncratic types of house sound in the foreseeable future)... example ...kubala sosna cables have some of lowest, simultaneous impedance, capacitance, inductance measurements, transparent cables have networks that reduce noise, shunyata power cables have built in noise reduction technology and more than sufficient guage size compared to conventional cords that allows amplifiers to draw current more quickly to recharge its capacitors during huge dynamic swings in the program material
... so some of these cable companies are allegedly the dressing technical issues that improve the performance in a way thats objective and makes it more neutral while simultaneously not entirely being able to escape their house sound which some subjective audiophiles are looking for to add some flavor
@@mikelanden anyone can try for themselves and believe also if they like the specs, measurements and claims promoted by these companies. However, I am not sure what volume/ dB levels these audiophiles play there music at but it would be fair to say a safe but good level. Therefore the runs involved per speaker is most likely 3m to 5m. Measuring any speaker cables loop impedance over such short runs in home stereo hifi would bring very similar results between any good size guage speaker cable at reasonable to expensive prices. If you are hearing noise coming through your speakers you have something more seriously going on. The way you describe how these audiophiles listen to music is by having the power amps pushing hard at unsafe listening levels. Therefore the cable requirements have to handle such extremes of current and power to support transients in the program. Sadly all they will do in the long run is damage their hearing capability which defeats the object of listening to hifi. Speaker cables do not need to carry that much current or power for decent quality listening levels. Unless of course your speaker is extremely hard to drive, not very sensitive. I have never ever heard any kind of interference through any systems speakers to warrant a speaker cable that has some built in noise cancelling technology. As for the DC battery that a certain speaker manufacturer has on there speaker cable that is beyond belief what that could even do, nothing. I don't want to come across as negative or rubbish what you say. However, if it is too good to be true is most certainly is and is the case with so many claims made by these companies. As I said anyone can spend what they like on whatever they want.
Most expensive cables do not have any unique technology, just expensive marketing.
They look really nice. That,s it hahaha
And have fantasy names, like DragonQuest or soon Dragon Ball or sth
$4800 will get me an entire High end setup done. Geez! And there is nothing known as this is the last thing in this hobby. So I wont think I will reach that part anytime where I think I will invest this much on a cable.
I was right... I knew if there are 6 people in test but only 3 are in video then they probably are the ones who guessed differences correctly... 👊👏Great job guys... Though i didn't like the result i loved the video as usual top marks for nbt studios for doing this
Kimber Kable is the only high end cable company I’ve seen that publishes cable specifications.
Sean the zero fidelity man reviewed audioquest speaker cables some months or moons ago. So what and whom do we believe now?? Though I wouldn't doubt Jay nor what Sean said about audioquest either it goes on to show how or why these cable discussions get some people goin crazy. He reviewed them favorably and though those cables dont have any specs like BJC & Mogami I personally did experience a difference with rocket 11 with my Primare i35 & Dynaudio S40s. I didnt wanna spend on rocket 44 & 88 though John Darko seems to use the latter. Mogami worked well with Emit M30s but not so much with S40s & blue jeans worked well with R300s & Hegel. So its system dependent. After owning 6 to 7 different speaker cables (though for less than a decade) one thing I can say for certain is that cables do alter the sound.
Believe... Or trust the most? Your ears :))) and wallet.
It always amazes me, the need for there to be a difference in sound quality which is directly correlated to price point. In actual fact, it's more likely to be a psychosomatic correlation, the more you pay, the better it sounds. In a nutshell, it's mostly all in the headl, not the ears!
Understanding the placebo for what it's worth is not always a negative. Believing a mysticism can give a bonus buss, and there is nothing wrong with that. I have made some decorative Japanese style woodworking hand tools and the reverence you hold them with when using them makes you feel good about the work done. I'f I splattered them with paint maybe I wouldn't feel so zen.
@@spudpud-T67 An elevated state of consciousness is one thing, the expectation of such is something else, as most expectations only lead to disappointment!
Great video, very interesting results. As you say cables listening should be a good last step to help fine tune your system, as system components can have a good synergy or not together on their own, have their own sound bright/harsh/thin/cold, etc, etc when combined together, separates Vs integrated making it even more so.
Their are so many real world variables, that makes a test like this really hard to, you did also touch on audio recording quality, better recorded/mastered songs, vs source analogue/digital all have effects expensive system are inherently more revealing so poor recordings will sound worse on these, whereas on less revealing more budget components they can sound better especially to non audiophiles.
have to take into account non audiophiles are often use to listening on music from a lifetime of cheap equipment , for example where bass tends to be previlant, so listening on a more neural balanced system can sound like it has no bass to them, very difficult test indeed, but excellent video, thanks for uploading and shout out to all involved for giving up their time.
Hey guys,
I am very grateful to you video and I couldn't agree more to your conclusions. I also believe speaker cables make a tiny audible difference but sometimes the cheaper cables just sounds better. I have one question/suggestion before I want to share my story.
Did you guys do blind switching during your blind test, meaning that you sometimes just didn't switch the cable? That makes it even 'more blind' and you won't hear changes when there aren't any. Worked very well for me:
I did a blind comparison for a day between zip cord the (recommended) Naim cable (sorry, I'm a Naim guy, not a Hegel person) and an expensive super fancy produced 'air' cable from a German brand called inakustik (the LS-804). Prizes reach from 40 Euros to 500 Euros all the way to 1500.
I did compare them and heard a difference between the cheap cable and the two others at all times and I could figure out the order the have been presented to me. However my notes show that the cheap cable was clearer in voices, more precise and transparent than both more expensive cables. I was also simply more balanced in bass vs mids and overall just better. The more expensive cables (very very small differences between them) were just better in pure bass power and soundstage. After the test, I was sure to have identified the most expensive cable only to learn that it was the cheapest that sounded best in my ears... So I traded resolution and transparency against a little bit of soundstage and - for my ears - too much bass.
Conclusion: Speaker cables do matter to some extend. But it could be the cheap cable that just sounds best. Go and compare some of them if you can and make a decision.
Gear: Bluesound Node 2i streaming CD quality audio via RC out to the Naim Supernait 3 connected to Focal Arias 936. Loving transparent and clear. Music style: Alt. Rock, Rock, (Power) metal.
A simple google search and you will find many double-blind studies done on speaker cables. The only difference you will hear is if you use gauge that is to thin. Other than that, all speaker cable sounded the same.
Dude on the right makes a valid point about women hearing babies. An Audiologist will tell you how men & women's hearing of the highest frequencies are different in that women & children can hear higher frequencies than men, while as the child gets past about 25yrs old & onwards ...HIS high frequency perception stars very gradually rolling-off proportionately & increasingly with age, while HER high-frequency perception stays "child-like" for many years & some years past her Child-bearing age. For her, it will roll-off from the top-frequencies & downwards but not until she's nearly an o.a.p. compared to a man's progressively falling high- treble limited hearing. It happens so gradual that we don't notice until our kids & wife ask us "did you hear that obvious & very high squeal? & we men say back "what high-pitch squeal are you on about?" I have seen audiology graphs showing the differences in men & women's frequency perception at progressive ages, i can't recall the precise numbers. Googling should show them. It has long been said by audiologists & evolutional biologists that the woman's hearing has evolved to be more fitting for hearing babies cry
This stuff is valuable, keep up the good work!
At least these guys are young. I find it laughable seeing 40, 50 and even 60 year olds trusting their immaculate ears to catch 0.1% audio differences.
Get two mono microphones. 3 tests. 1, straight speaker wire. 2, mid level. 3, high end. The mics can be separated and stereo mix. Right into the video. I'm interested in hearing this.
Hi, i really miss room acoustic when i look at you setup and room. At my place i dident hear any serius differenses i sound before a serius acoustic treatment Where in place. But still, interesting and honest test, like it. TT, Norway
DON'T MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE AS I DID !
I actually re-done my small living room out for a 9-Channel receiver (Denon 6500) and during the audition I noticed all my unshielded speaker cables sounded more obvious compared to my budget receiver (7.2 Sony STR dn1080) so after I returned the Denon and reinvested that money by shielding all my speaker cables (epic x for front stage shawline x for surrounds
c-screen x for Heights
shawline sub lead for dual Rels) and now my original budget receiver sounds crisp, dynamic with minimum distortion and no noticeable radio frequency interference!
IMO this proves the interference wasn't mechanical noise coming from my cheap budget receiver but more to fact I was using cheap unshielded cables!!
The only problem now, ive got to get my money's worth and get myself a decent amp plus a 9-channel receiver 🙄
Click on the red dragon hit the Dolby Atmos video and you can view a short video of my setup with me thinking how clever I am not displaying any cables 😁 not realising am gonna have to do it all again... properly! 🤣🤣🤣
Oh well we live and learn!
DH Labs Silver Sonic T-14 $10/ft. Made in the USA.
Great video Guys!!!!! Audioholics, they have it right!!!!
Im a bit late to the party. When performing a test with a very low delta between test specimens it is very advantageous to get a baseline with samples that would exibit higher delta. This meaning, comparing the absolute cheapest cable you could find (walmart?) against a the most expensive cable you have, IF you can tell the differens, then you could move on from there and compare as much as you want. Best regards hi voltage electrical engineer (sorry for my english)
Might I suggest Canare?
Yes and for me also Supra (Quadrax).
I’d say that if the difference between these cables is so small, it’s not even worth buying 120 dollar cables.
I have some 50 dollar cables (2x3 meters for this price) and even that I found quite pricey. But I liked the looks of them so that made it worth for me.
Good video. I listened to some cables at a dealers house once and ended up liking the entry level cable over the next 3 better ones. Eventually the dealer switched to a really good one and I heard the difference but when he told me the price of it I couldn't justify the minor improvement for the cost