What Exceptional Talent Really Means
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2024
- During her lifetime, Ida Presti was one of the greatest phenomenons the classical guitar world had ever seen. She was not only technically almost unmatched, but possessed free and untethered musicality. On May 31 2024, we're celebrating her 100th birthday.
Further listening:
• Sarabande à Ida Presti...
• Castelnuovo-Tedesco: T...
• Presti: Etude fantasque
• 6) Isaac Albéniz : Rum...
• SoloDuo performs Prelu...
• Joaquin Rodrigo - Tona...
• Presti & Lagoya : Tele...
• The Ida Presti right h...
I particularly recommend checking out the channel of Jean Pierre Semeraro for lots of archival recordings of Presti & Lagoya: / @jean-pierresemeraro7994
Newspaper excerpts and photographies through digitalguitararchive.com
Music in video performed by Ida Presti, Alexandre Lagoya, Stephanie Jones and Jakob Schmidt.
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Bonjour, à toute l’équipe et aux intervenants, j’ai fait le mois dernier un hommage exceptionnel à Paris pour ma grand-mère Ida Presti. Je vous remercie infiniment de cet image que vous rendez et que je rends à chaque fois que je peux en faisant une conférence musicale avec des archives inédites temps audio que visuel, et je suis très très heureuse de commentaires et de la façon dont vous avez si bien parlé d’elle. Bientôt, c’est-à-dire demain sortira une petite vidéo de Savarez qui évoque le moment de partage que nous avons tous eu lors de cet image. Encore merci pour elle pour son oeuvre pour son genie pour la femme qu elle était merveilleuse et si musicale je continuerais à oeuvrer pour mieux la faire connaitre dans le monde entier Merci encore pour votre video Isabelle Presti❤
Beautiful.😑
Merci beaucoup ❤...🎼🎵🎶
The great Spanish violinist Pablo de Sarasate said: "For 37 years I've been practicing 14 hours a day, and now they call me a genius."
That's nothing! I've praticed 37 hours for 14 years...and still suck...
@@janecroft 😂 That's why we need slippery words like 'talent'!
I met Mario Maccaferri in NYC
in the 80s. He talked about
giving Ida lessons when she
was a child and recalled in awe how he could never really give
her homework because she
repeated passages instantly
on the spot as if remembering
rather than learning them.
Django loved Bach and when
Presti and Lagoya played for
him privately he was moved
to tears and openly wept for
joy.
The argument about talent is the one I use when my wife talks about my "talent." I worked hard to get a skill & made some good recordings, but after years of little practice and learning, I have lost the skills and my daughter has experienced the same. Julian Bream is one of my favourite musician/educators and his method is quite clear - work at each piece, each technique. Paco de Lucia felt he was almost going insane with the effort he put into his music and exploration. Ida Presti is a very worthy musician to keep to the fore. Thanks.
I am 62 years old. Country music is more my thing. I have been playing guitar mandolin, Dobre and banjo for over 40 years. But I never could achieve a level of accuracy or speed due to physical limitations. I firmly believe that talent is more nature, if you prefer, God-given. It was not lack of motivation on my part that I never learned to play well, but physical limitations, and the fact that, I needed to work for a living
When a person works for a living, they have responsibilities to worry about, with that in mind' sometimes it's hard to concentrate and like you said' physical limitations' busted up bruised/cut hands and fingers. It's hard to concentrate when your back is hurting so bad it hurts to sit down. . would have been nice to have lived a cushioned life' no worries... just play a nice expensive guitar.
fair enough, I obviously don't know the limitations that have held you back but for example Django Reidhardt only had 2 working fingers in his fretting hand and was very accomplished you can make excuses but there tends to be a way if your determined enough. also pro musicians work very hard for a living.
My dad was a musician from the 1930s until around 1990,around the 1940s he accidentally cut off his fingers(pointer and middle) on left hand but after about 6 months he returned to playing his fiddle 🎻. I was born in 1965 I carried and helped the musicians set up in dances,bars ,clubs ,VFW halls ,weddings parties etc.
I worked In Security 14 hour days and nights supporting a family I also worked construction on weekends I've had busted hands aches pains still made time for music, I ran my self into the ground and triggered schizophrenia which I've battled 20 years I ain't got money these days can't work like that no more music's finally taking off because it's my life I ain't got time to make excuses but I find you patronising I know suffering responsibility and pain but I want it to bad to blame my situation grow some balls and accept you didn't want it bad enough, I ain't got expensive guitars last 5 songs I recorded on a cheap £60 guitar gifted to me using a mobile phone app and phone mic. You can either find a way or find an excuse
I completely understand what you mean. I had a natural bent for music , but life and physical limitations got in the way, but I still plug along with what I still have left. Have fun with whatever you can do.
Jakob and Stephanie,
Ida Presti has been an inspiration to me for my whole life, I'm 82,
and although I am a clarinetist, not a guitarist, listening to music and talented musicians, has been a part of me since
I was very little.
You both express yourselves so intelligently and clearly and have said many things about Ida and Her husband
that I didn't fully realize...Thank You:)
There will always be musicians whose ability to inspire and communicate musically
cannot be examined and dissected, because their abilities are a Gestalt of the components, physical and mental
in each one, that makes them more than the sum of these things.
When that happens we have Prestis and many others who enrich our lives.
Thank You,
Fredrick Spector
Excellent, too-short video about Presti and Presti-Lagoya.
I no longer play, but I was almost pathologically obsessed with "classical" (I hate that term) guitar for many decades, and eventually played in local venues. Even back in the early 1960s, when I started playing, Presti was legendary in the guitar world.
She is still incredibly almost completely unknown, even amongst guitarists. This video is a very welcome contribution to her place in the world of guitar.
I have played classical guitar for around forty years and had never heard of her but I shall look into her career now
@@mauriceeccles3373You won't be disappointed. Her collaboration with Lagoya is legendary. Guitarists of their generation and before virtually never travelled very far or made many recordings. The single exception was Segovia, who was the only one of them to travel the world, repeatedly, and became (as he himself put it) "the apostle of the guitar", and this is why Segovia became practically synonymous with the instrument. There were better guitarists than he was in his own time, but they never went anywhere.
Thank you very much Jakob and Stephanie for this tribute to this great, unparalleled virtuoso artist. Jean-Pierre SEMERARO
Great job, Jakob and Steph, beautiful video essay! Ida Presti is one of my favorite guitarists of all time.
Merci ! J’ai pleuré en ecoutant votre video … que de souvenirs … j’ai commencé la guitare en 1968 au Quebec , j’ai eu la chance d’étudier avec des élèves de Presti-Lagoya ( Martin et Marie Prével) Lagoya avait délaissé les concerts de guitare un bon moment.. puis j’aimaussi eu la chance d’avoir un stage avec lui à Nice pendant l’été 1972 … oufff que d’émotion . Merci encore et je salue Mme Isabelle Presti de tout mon coeur …
I have a very extensive background with the guitar. I was getting video taped since I was a kid. I started as an electric player. Then switched to classical. I worked with the best in the world. All over EU and the USA. I don't believe hardwork is the key. I was practicing 8 hours a day at a time and my playing was not that good during performance. It's more about quality of practice. But the biggest factor is your approach. The way I think of technique is just "the efficiency of bring out a musical idea". I dropped all technique "rules". Music dominates and directs the way my hands move. Therefore there are a lot of subtle things I do that don't fit a technique methodology. But it's all guided by music and the music is guided by inspiration and visions. I'm also a big believer in the power of manifestation. The universe is not simple. The laws of physics breakdown at a quantum level. Our minds and thoughts effect the sound and music we play.
There's also something called inspired action. Have a dream and go towards it intuitively. Don't follow a method or routine. Let dreams and intuition guide your progress. But most of all keep the dream in you and let inspire you and walk towards it.
Be led by a dream. Let your actions be aligned to it.
The other masters i believe that followd this approach all - Leonardo DaVinci. Bach. Beethoven. Mozart.
They worked ofcourse but they took upon it intuitively and there work was a natural result of having visions, dreams, and passion for something. As humble as they seem, the greats have always become greats in part because they have visions of themselves being great.
Thanks so much for this video, 2 days before Ida's centenary.
Another fantastic video! Ida Presti was simply amazing and it is great to revive her legacy, here. Thank you so much Jakob and Stephanie!
Wonderful thanks, Greg
Excellent work, Jakob and Stephanie.
Thank you for this wonderful tribute!
Great video. Content and production both excellent. Keep up the good work.
Another great video! Thanks so much for introducing me so thoroughly to this wonderful figure!
Amazing video essay, my compliments ❤❤❤
This is an excellent essay. Well done, I really like your exploration of talent etc.
Glad I got here, this is the most informative segment I have seen in quite a while and I'm always looking for something new. The hours of listening pleasure I derive from new sources is always an exciting and rewarding experience. I will be visiting often for more of what I received today.Thanks.
Jakob and Stephanie, thanks so much. Very interesting and well done acknowledgement of Ida Presti's excellence on guitar. Also appreciate the comments about "talent." And the point being the expression of guitar music, not rigid rules and one size fit's all indoctrination... John B.
Excellent video.
I just clicked on the image not knowing who it was and thinking it could be the American jazz guitarist Mary Osborne who was born in 1921, just three years before Ida. I hadn't heard of Ida but she and Mary were both child prodigies and now largely forgotten unfortunately.
It would make an interesting program to explore the parallels in the lives of these two exceptionally talented women. I enjoyed your film very much about the life of Ida Presti.
Thanks for share!!🎸🔥
Another excellent production, great work Tonebase!
I was JUST recently thinking about unearthing some of her old gems for my own studies/platform as they are uncommon to a lot of players today, so this vid is great timing.
A formidable collection of Presti’s works can be found on Spotify, specifically the Blue album cover entitled, ‘Segovia and his contemporaries’ which is where I discovered her remarkable talent or “feeling” which is as most of us know, quite a bit separate of technical skill. We used to say “feeling” in the metal scene in the early 90’s but I guess todays parallel would be “musicality”?
Those two aforementioned measures in symbiosis (feeling/technique) are the mark of a master*, as she will be remembered! Least to me, and I only discovered her two summers ago. Thks /JW
Great way to talk of Ida Presti ! I think no skill can develope in full without practice and no practice can go far without a reasonable portion of talent. Grazie Jacob and Stephanie,: I heard her concert in Rome last year. Fine concert and cd. Ciao !!
thank you so very much for this, it is so wonderfully beautiful, and sadly tragic, it brings a tear of joy, and another for her early passing. interestingly, if god had its way, i believe it would have let her free in america..to be herself at last..to play music for, and like the angels.
First time I hear of Ida Presti...amazing how she could set her hand stretching 8 frets!! From index to pinky...? Absolute Master guitarist ..no doubt. The higher school of classical guitar!!
Thanks!
An inspirational and exceptionally well-presented video - thank you!
It is a joke video about nothing. Who cares if someone can play guitar... wow!
Ida Presti was a force of nature!
My old prof was a friend of her / Lagoya /Walker and Segovia .. she was a student of Llobet .. Presti was a really great Guitarist ..Thanks
Great video my dude!
I love her.
Love your analysis of what is talent. What we call great is surely a reflection of our own opinion: it is great because I enjoy it and I recognize something there that I trust is great. Surely Music herself takes no pleasure in such divergence? Just be moved, or not.
Thanks for this. I am in my 70s and ashamed to say I had not come across Ida. Such an interesting story. I must look up some of her recordings. Interesting views on duet playing too. Really absorbing video.
This is my exact case, agree 100%
Nunca había oído de ella, ¡excelente información!
I think consciousness is what differs a talented ... And an ok musician.
If someone is 100 % excited about practice , and is 100 % present of correct practice . There is no obstacle for him / her to reach the best version possible
was expecting a video on focal dystonia but was pleasantly surprised
Absolutely fantastic video! Keep them coming!
Me Playing With my broken C40 Yamaha Because I have no fucking money: "Yes."
I’m 56 and started playing the video two years ago and play 3 songs and play the Puerto Rican cuatro and also the classical guitar I started playing 9 months ago and already playing three songs. Next is the piano. Having a lot of fun. And by ear. I don’t read music notes.
Well done. Delivery of concept and content seamlessly.
Thank You... Subscribe'd 🎼🎵🎶❤️🔥
There is no question that Ida Presti was one of the great giants of classical guitar. I would say she was a giant in the world of classical music, in general.
The gorgeous ensemble between her and Alexandre Laggoya is really on the same level. I find listening to the recordings they made together to be inspiring and one of the richest experiences I have in classical music.
I am sorry she dies so young and ma deeply grateful for what she left us.
In those days, training and discipline often meant going so far as to cause physical injuries. There are testimonials of self mutilation, guitarists ruining their left hand permanently with extreme finger stretching exercises. Nowadays people are more concerned about their health and good ergonomics. Playing with a bent versus straight wrist is no longer a matter of dogma. A bent wrist poses risks to your joints, tendons and ligaments. Our vision and knowledge about the use of the instrument evolves, and that is a good thing.
Bent wrists are not necessary but afaik there is not much evidence for damage as a result. The Presti Lagoya School emphasised relaxation above all else and, let's face it, their duo has never been surpassed.
@@tomgutierrez7573 First: the performances of this duo are indeed excellent. That is not my point. Regarding the wrist: there is evidence. I omit the details. Relaxation can enhance the damage of a joint in a wrong position because muscle tension may offer some protection.
@@mer1redThat is a most unsubstantive reply, generalised and lacking in any kind of evidence. As Jakob says in the video, some find this kind of position very natural for their hands.
Skilled players, are found everywhere, now more than ever. But what really matter is, what"S in their head. Do they bring anything new to the table, are they msaking inventions, do they compose, new magical stuff ,for the instrument. That"s what matter, and that"s why, a rather rudimentary guitarist like Keith Richards matters, cause he got a gift, the gift to envent magic. !00 of guitarist play better than him, but none of them, really matters, cause their great skills, wasn"t going in any new directions, be one to follow. WE can all enjoy a really skillfull master, but ton morrow it"s a new one, and a new one, it dosn"t matter, they are all basicly the same. But that rare person, showing ways, open our minds, that"s what matter.
NICOLA HALL ----- one episode upon HER also...
Pat Metheny is quoted as saying "Compared to Bach, we all suck". I find that much of what is attributed to talent is really hours and hours of practice! It kind of makes me mad when someone says "Your so talented" when the reality is, I have invested countless hours practicing. I guess I feel like the time I have spent is being disregarded. I am not saying talent doesn't exist, I feel that it's much less of a factor than what has been ascribed.
John Duarte's tribute Idylle pour Ida is wonderful.
There is not much more beautiful than classical guitar in this world thank God and thank all of our wonderful artists
Interesting that it’s starts with a parent setting goals and helping the child to stay the course,not just do what you feel
Não sabia destes detalhes sobre Ida Presti gostei muito e foi muito informativo, darei mais valor a essa importante musicista.
The great guitarist Django Reinhardt once finished a recording session and when the engineer played it back for him he was perplexed what he was hearing was not what he thought he had played. it was coming from somewhere else
Entertaining AND interesting AND multi-layered AND carefully researched AND produced state of the art. Simply another great video, thank you very much!
Please do a video on Mancuso!
God, i never heard about Ida before, what a shame, its great this channel make a video of it, now i know how much i dont know and can search more !!! Thank you
"Talent setzt sich durch" plegte mein Gitarrenlehrer zu sagen.
There’s no question that there is a huge disconnect between “talent” and success, and an even bigger one between “talent” and fame. There always has been and it’s only getting worse.
Talent is peculiar and desired
In another sphere - tennis - the Williams sisters (Venus and Serena) were both taught by their father, rather than by a professional coach. The comparison to Ida Presti and her father seems appropriate.
It is a little known fact about the great Ida Presti that she met with another of France's great talents and fellow prodigy, the violinist Ginette Neveau. They planned to play some concerts together but shortly after, in 1949, Neveau died tragically in a 'plane crash, aged only 30. If the Presti-Neveau Duo had been formed, it's possible that Presti-Lagoya, the greatest guitar duo of the 20th century,, might never have happened.
Un merecido reconocimiento a Ida Presti, que ocupa un lugar de honor entre los mejores intérpretes de Guitarra Clásica de la historia.
En el video, se sugiere que Alexandre Lagoya era un intérprete estándar, pero no. Lagoya fue un guitarrista magnífico y grandioso, muchas veces subvalorado.
Creo que después del genial dueto que formaron Bream y Williams, el dúo Presti-Lagoya es el más importante.
And her husband a great duo
Allan Holdsworth, Frank Gambale are 2 examples of the electric guitar world, but they also improvise and compose which is the most important thing, not just to give recitals and concerts.
this
The most important thing in jazz and fusion. Luckily classical musicians don t improvise, otherwise we wouldn t have a 4 century legacy. Also from a fingering point, playing these positions on an acoustic classical guitar is miles above shredding on an electric fastlane neck with 008 strings
@@rayerscarpensael2300 I play both types of guitars and both have their demands. And I would place Flamenco guitarists a notch above classical guitarists.
No one single thing is the most important thing.
@@user-ui2mk2no1f Their guitars have been made easier to play.
心より感謝してます
ラゴヤ氏はプレスティを天才と言ってたそうです。
この動画は再び彼女に光を与えてます
🙏👍🇯🇵🌈
Do we eventually get to hear her play after all the talk?
Vell àmazing
Physical capability defines the expression of talent. Small hands, short fingers, etc, do not allow the capability in the first place.
Talent is when you practice properly, and you get better. Talent-free is when you practice properly and still, it doesn’t sound like music!
what about TORY SLUSHER SHE IS A TRUE GENIUS
TINA .S. TINA.S. ❤❤❤❤
1:57 Holy cow … !
Merci!
Mais où est Tina S?
Nice. It’s good to see the resurrections. Never stop learning.
💫🎵🎶🎵🕊️🔥💎🌀
Been playing for 58 years now...........my teacher studied with Rodrigo Riera one of the 4 Segovia disciples.........what does this mean? 2 hours of scales a day........getting my hands in olympic shape with of course much attention to the apoyando or rest stroke which I do not see or hear much use of in this video .........with all respect for different tastes, no one can produce dynamics or a true projecting tone using only the nail ... it is impossible......One must use the skin then the nail ........not following? Listen to Alirio Diaz, John Williams and of course the man, Segovia. Now compare to the video ..........hear the difference? Even their tirando is almost the same level of the "rest stroke".......the art of the guitar comes from this and it requires lots of correct practice to achieve it...........a thin, brittle nail tone does not project and has little beauty resulting in boring concerts......sometimes the nail only makes a great effect by itself or when playing ponticello but only for short periods....Young players today roll their eyes as they emote about their playing but no one can hear them as their right hand is not pushing the string robbing them of their true expression. Result is: no projection, beauty of tone or dynamics so very flat performances from poor preparation and weak hands........Solution? Diatonic major and minor scales everyday untill your fingers falls off using every possible finger combination with rest stroke. As a result your "free" stroke will also have a beautiful tone...........
there's no way she 'practiced' her way to virtuosity, so the talent was in-born in the sense of having an eidetic memory and natural fine-motor skills
One of things I never take seriously is when people who play musical instruments well and say they never practice. Another is someone who does well in exams then say they never studied. However much one is blessed in dexterity or however clever someone is it has to be learned. One doesn't just wake up one morning and the knowledge has flown into their brain.
Common... Do you really think skills just fall from heaven without any practice.
I think there is a blend of practice and talent that makes for greatness. I used to teach architectural design at university and I often had students who were obviously very talented but lazy who did not produce projects as artistically successful as less talented students who worked very hard.
And yet there are savants . . . You all need to adjust your simplistic either/or thinking. You are correct but also wrong AND there are additional aspects.
@@katebloggs8243 She practiced. Get used to it!
What a great video! Thanks a lot for this Treasure!
Perhaps talent is the wrong word; perhaps affinity would be better? Biology, heredity, and environment are such a messy tangle the threads cannot be separated -- or even identified. But sometimes people seem "wired" such that certain things come easier to them. For example, it took me twenty years to find a sport that felt natural to me, and I never would have thought sailboat racing would be it. That affinity was there without my knowing.
To me, one of the greatest tragedies of life is the skill/ talent/ affinity that is sleeping in each of us, waiting for the right key to unlock it. The world yearns for beauty and joy; imagine the incredible things that could be, but are not. We are so fortunate that people like Ida Presti remind us of what could be, and give us something to strive for.
Sorry i had to leave when i saw her fret 4 e notes. Life isnt fair.
Bobby Cash is really talented on classical guitar as a country music artist
The fact that so many young prodigies are popping up everywhere truly shows the power of the internet, and how poor our tradition teaching methods are.
Thanks for this video. I'm a classical guitar enthusiast. My first teacher was Alice Artz. Alice noted that Segovia was blown away by and maybe jealous of Ida''s mastery. Alice taught me the Idi Presti right hand technique. I'm not very good. Still, I love that there are so many young women virtuoso's now. Modern classical guitarist's achievement is astounding. Players like Stephanie Jones and Alexandra Whittingham raise goose bumps on my arms and bring tears to my eyes. Great music and it's interpretation is an intricate and ethereal world of art, suprise and discovery.
Well, Alice Artzt has her own ideas about the Presti technique. In France, more people were influenced by Alexandre Lagoya. Although he also played with the right side of his nails, his technique was a bit different.
What makes a great talent?
Obsession!
If you aren't obsessed with it you won't succeed. Do you see practice as a chore? Are you thinking about how to play a piece even when you aren't practicing? Does time drag when you practice or does it fly by? etc.
One of the most realistic interpretations. Those who experience it know it. Most of the time, it is about talent, which of course exists, but obsession is the main theme that comes before everything else. Perfectionism accompanies this. Psychology is generally not good.
Presti? Yes!
True Champion of Guitar? Clickbait title not followed up on in the video.
Overall? 10% about the putative topic, 90% creative writing exercise. With a small side-order of retro-fitting history to accomodate the worldview of today.
Paganini un the Guitare
They didn't bother putting Williams on the list 😆
Excellent video of someone who made the sounds that made me want to play
""Chamber Music"" can include a solo that's performed within a chamber without electronic amplification... just saying
Love it! Next something on Maria Luisa Anido and the relationship between classical and popular music?
Very nice video!
Is this your trajectory Jakob and Stephanie? 😂
I would be interested in how Leonora Spangenberger is doing, because you showed her in the video... Nothing about her in five years in the internet. Also there are always some white spots in these careers of young prodigies where it's a bit speculative to talk or not talk about. Like: Was it really Ida Prestis own decision to retire from solo recitals? And talking about Tina S.: I was really concerned about her, as if there was something tragic behind that rigid face... I also remember that movie about the Berliner Philharmoniker, wherein nearly every musician told stories about the dark side of early talent, being an outsider at school and so on. Talking about "talent" should mean talking about the dark side of it, too... I think this video only scratches the surface - on the other hand, sometimes it might be better not to reveal everything...
I can calm your fears: She's doing good, no worries! She just didn't want to have music as her professional career, to which I'd say: fair enough! 😅 -J
It's videos like this that make me glad I walked away from Tonebase.
Learning what works without rigid "teaching" from a supposed expert who told her to hold her hands differently for no real reason probably gave her the speed and accuracy denied to kids who are taught more myopically
Stephanie Jones is the definition of prodigy
Great video, albeit a bit tedious and exaggerated at times.
At #2:00 is the most important remark I've heard on YT. Go and tell that to all those Asian wonder kids.
So, talent is always obvious, and never what you wanted to be. There is such thing as objective truth, and talent is not an exception to this rule. Second, to become Mozart or Presti, i'm sorry to mention them in the same sentence, but enormous sacrifice is required on the part of children, and on the part of their parents. I guarantee you fathers aren't having a ball being draconian tyrants through endless hours of practice. Yes, they didn't have a childhood, but they had a wonderful career and produced unforgettable music, a gift to the whole world. It is not possible to have everything in life, it's just how it is, regardless of how we wish it wasn't so.
There are enough counterexamples to prove that myth is bullshit enabling of “traditional” abuse in music pedagogy.