Indian atheist debates theist about knowledge of god
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- čas přidán 22. 05. 2022
- Got a caller some time ago who wanted to say belief in god is natural. I pointed out that not everything natural is good for us and that belief is not knowledge.
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I am Vimoh, an Indian atheist and my videos have to do with religion, atheism, Indian culture, and sometimes contemporary political happenings.
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Though I am an atheist I really respect Zohaibb for being able to have a rational and civil conversation without getting all emotional and defensive.
Mad respect for the caller... Just imagine he was Zakir Naik.... "Verse 16....blah...blah.."
Brader asked a very good question ~ Medecal Dokter Zokir Nalayak 😆
That's his way of debating who are we to decide how somebody should debate atleast he is giving his points. If we don't like him just ignore him.
@@rationalHuman1897 verse 18 chapter 13...your opinion is invalid
lol
@@biswajitnath804
@@rationalHuman1897 Quoting Quran is not how you "put your points" sir.
Beautifully done, and a very polite way of asking the caller their thoughts and drawing them out.
Exactly , he was super polite ......people are missing out on this man
Nicest religious discussion in the whole internet.😃
Adh thanne ,,,,,both sides were calm and respectful
Wow mazaa aa gaya. Not becz of one side winning or losing. But becz I found it thought provoking.
I can give one example of how god actually created by human. The movie "cast away".
Due to a storm an accident happened in sea. Fortunately a guy was alive and he reached an island where no was there. Eventually he god a foot ball. ⚽. He decorated it as a human. He used to talk to the ball. It gave him the strength to survive in a deserted island. Finally he survived and came to his real world.
This is the most simplest example anyone can understand.
There is a power to the imagination. I see the imagination itself as ‘god.’ It has the capabilities we want to give to a god, rather than look at the vastness that we have within ourselves.
WILSOOOOON!😂
@@KitKrashit's talked about in this video, the inherent instinct in evolutionary history.
Good discussion 👍this way without any abuse we can question the existence of God. Keep it up.
But not all theists are calm, some of them may abuse you for questioning the existence of God
Hey vimoh bhai ji please continue doing this its awesome 😀
Vimoh, you are wielding the sharpest sword with a velvet hand. Hats off to you, sir! Enjoyed your video.
Excellent epistemological and polite discussion. This is the way conversations should be held about theistic beliefs.
Hello Vimoh. I just loved the way you unravelled it. As an Ex-Muslim I really loved your clarity of thoughts.
I am Muslim
I have a doubt about you can i ask question to you to ensure that you are Ex Muslim
HINDU GODS ARE REAL THAT'S FOR SURE THE CAVES THE OLD BOOKS AND ETC PROVE IT LMAO
@@colbyy_samyyhow ?
He asked, can the universe pop into existence without a creator. Then my question is who created the creator? can an all-powerful, intelligent entity capable of creating this universe popped just like that? if yes, then why not the universe?
True. And if we had gotten to that point, I would have asked. But it is better to take small steps and not overreach. Keeps the discussion on track.
The difference is that God did not "pop" in to existence, God has existed eternally. He has no beginning or end. That is vastly different than something popping into existence from nothing.
@@trenton1190 How do you know this?
@@vimoh Psalm 90:2 KJV
Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
Like the verse above, there are many Bible verses that support this belief. Science itself also supports this belief due to the fact that there is no known method of something creating itself from nothing. Basically the existence of an eternal God is the only logical belief which would be in agreement with this verse. That leads me to this next verse.
Romans 1:19-20 KJV
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. [20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
These verses are pretty much saying that it is naturally against human nature and logic to believe creation created itself, and because of that, those who deny God are without excuse.
@@trenton1190 How do you know what is written in that book is true?
one of the most civil conversations on religion on youtube. thanks vimoh bhai!
When Vimoh asks a question Zohebb repeats the same question. After a point this started getting irritating. It's evident that he was conditioned and he never questioned his beleifs
Vimoh bhau just discovered your channel . Do not stop ....please !
@vimoh debate was osm.Do more debates like this love to listen to arguments from both the sides.
Zohaibb now must be smarter than when he was in the video.
Need a debate vimoh and acharya Prashant
It would be really entertaining to watch Vimoh debate a religious guru, Sadhguru or the likes. Of course there's a big chance that theist gurus won't want to be a part of his podcasts because they just don't want to argue to logic. I only ever see Sadhguru "schooling" people who are unequipped to deal with that level of fake knowledge. But well, this is a special request, if possible, please debate some gurus. I'm tired of watching these gurus spread videos where they "debate" with atheists.
Javed Akhtar schooled him... but of course Jaggi's fanatics like to think otherwise.
Discovered you just thru a random search. Loved the way you handled this one. Calm, cool and collected. From one agnostic atheist of forty years to another, this is just a two pence, throaway suggestion about engaging theists: maybe you should be a tad less charitable in allowing them to try sneaking that burden of proof back at you especially when they know they have backed themselves up against a corner. Just keeps the focus a bit sharper, I guess. But kudos nonetheless. More power to you and your channel especially against the backdrop of pathetic religious obscurantism of the last two decades, that has managed to turn the average man of the street of this country into hordes of zombies afflicted with the virus of divinity. Subscribing.
Thanks a lot. I do push back sometimes, but I try to go easy in the beginning. Another kind of comment I get is about how impolite I was in debate sometimes. So there are both extremes. :)
@@vimoh He He, been doing exactly that to my Gita reading and regurgitating mother of seventy eight years for the last two decades to no avail. So much so that, even though she refuses to deal with the very same verses that SHE EXPLICITLY KNOWS (AND ACKNOWLEDGES TO BE SO ) to be downright inhuman, derogatory and discriminatory to the extreme, she is equally blind to the cognitive dissonance that should otherwise naturally follow provided logic and rationality are allowed to take their own course. So yeah tough job as you say and I agree🙂
Hats off to clarity if thoughts and conviction of Vimoh.............someone told me about his channel very recently...............I should have come to this much earlier..............
Great job vimoh
The caller is all over the place, clutching at straws - way to go Vimoh!
Excellent take on using his claim and putting him exactly in the same spot as he put you via his beliefs! Handled very well!
Dragon example reminds me of Science is Dope Pranav 😅
Uff that's awesome vimoh
Hi , I would like to have a similar debate with you...may be we can learn from each other....if you are good with that??? Let me know 😊
faith begins where knowledge ends - unfortunately theists attach some romantic heroism with that belief
I see Michael Shermer's answers, Nice!!
what is the evidence of Gravity?
the way Vimoh asj question, make believers think why the heck do I really believe in god. I have no evidence, just belief then why no believe other religion god😀
Many muslim say that there are true believe because they worship 1 god but they cant either show evidence of their god or disprove other religion's god. Well same goes for Hindu too
11:28 VIMOH LORE IS REALLY WEIRD
I love this debate videos
Depends on how you define God…Einstein saw it as the laws of the universe (that things are this way and not another is actually quite absurd), Spinoza and Advaita philosophers see it as the underlying mystery of consciousness, The Buddha sees it as ‘nothing’. The rishis of the Upanishads see it as ‘infinite…ever expanding’. I don’t know if anyone sees it as the mystery of ‘imagination’ but that is what I find as a ‘god’ in a way. What is this ‘imagination’ that we have? Why can it go anywhere? While at the same time our daily lives have limitations of natural laws like some strange prison sentence. Atheism appeals to me in a way, but… so many seem to not have an intellectual capacity to see outside the box. They appear cognitively stunted to me.
I have the same opinion 🤝🤝
Universe can pop into existence indeed... That's law of nature..Look at the world around u..
True. We do create imaginary character. Like, I am an atheist, but at a point of time, I slipped into bad depression and I was helpless, I needed a mental support I can hold onto, that could become my crutch in crisis, and I sided towards the "thought of God", it did kept me going and helped me process my own thoughts, understanding them better and then choosing to get out of it. But that "god thing" could be just "5%", and 60% it was all me and 35% was sharing my problem with my friends. Even if god is imaginary, I needed that imagination at that moment. I also don't belive in god.
Man , that was good ..👍🏾I wish I could've watched your stuff more , bloody rxams .....
No worries. Videos can wait. Focus on exams.
@@vimoh 👍🏾
Being a agnostic is very safe!😁
Trying to be the Indian Dillahunty? @Vimoh? :-)
If you're interested, I'd like to discuss on this topic with you, on your channel.
I've a CZcams channel on Spirituality.
Sure. Feel free to join on my live channel on any Saturday between 8 pm and 9 pm.
What about if your not thinking about every possible evidence available? Shouldn't your "god" know?
But the problem is that when u claim that u do not know how can u present a claim that there is no God. And if agnostically u claim that since u dont know, you chose to have negation about God untill you get enough evidence for Gods existence, then how do u chose to not to believe,you could chose to beleive in Gods existence but u didnt. The end point is that since there is no specific evidence about the existence of God we cant claim Gods existence thats ok but there are not enough claims about the universe being created absolute randomly then there should not be absolute surety about God being non existent. But u chose the answer for that 'i dont know' and thats an easy way to save your side. So it seems difficult to defeat u.😊
So, if I say that a Flying Spaghetti Monster exists and can you prove it's existence or non-existnce? You will say "No" right. So you're at an agnostic position, where you can neither prove nor disprove the existence of The Flying Spaghetti Monster. Will you find the argument reasonable, that since there is no possible way to disprove it's existence You should start believing in the Flying Spaghetti Monster ? Obviously Not. You still won't believe it, right?
Again, will you find it justifiable if I say that not believing in the Monster is just what you've chosen (Since no one can prove it) and you could've chosen it's existence as well (because no one can disprove it either)? I don't think so!
Now, replace "The Flying Spaghetti Monster" with "God" in the above scenario and tell me do you still think your argument is reasonable?
Love ❤❤ you bro
0:02 absence of evidence is not evidence of absence
Not for only for the God for anything
❤❤❤❤amazing
He keeps saying there is no evidence, what would be evidence according to the host, then if that evidence doesnt exist then we can say there is no evidence.
If someone asserts there is no evidence for a claim, they typically mean there is no compelling scientific evidence that supports it. In the context of atheism, the burden of proof usually lies on those making the claim that a deity or supernatural entity exists. Here’s a perspective as an atheist:
"When discussing the existence of a deity or supernatural entity, evidence typically refers to scientifically verifiable data or observations that support such a claim. As an atheist, I rely on empirical evidence, logical reasoning, and critical thinking to form my beliefs. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If someone asserts the existence of a deity but cannot provide tangible evidence that withstands scientific scrutiny, then it is reasonable to conclude that there is no sufficient evidence for such a claim. Atheism, in this sense, is not asserting absolute certainty but rather a lack of belief due to insufficient evidence."
From Chaos comes Order 😄
This is an illusion, I think its still is a chaos, since we think there is a pattern so there is an order.
In other words, from chaos comes chaos :)
Man, it was such a let down that he couldn't bring any good points for the debate than repeatedly saying, "you tell.."
Actually we can not fetch the actual cause analyzing effects. Moreover, these effects which we are trying to analyse are so corrupted that we can not reach the absolute condition from where we had started. Think a circular path , take a tool which crosses, makes two nodes hypothetically, we take one node ,,se when we approach far and far the corruption (information) will be more and more untill we end up that previous same node. So we can not judge our life being drowned into our life state. I think life is one of the enormous states and it starts from two of enormous transitions-- Birth and Death. We have to go beyond the state of life to see the conspiracy of life.
what does that even mean?
@@vimoh nothing but a disoriented thought due to the incoming cosmic ray which corrupted my consciousness.😸 Good night , thank you for wasting your valuable time to read my comment🥰
We can go beyond life and death
But for that we need to know whether or not there is something beyond life and death
And if it is actually there it can only be known after death
@@namah4399 absolutely right you are, I am also now trying to fetch.
@@namah4399There is nothing after death thanks you
It is hard to believe God for me.
Or trying to be the Indian Magnabosco? @Vimoh? :-)
great
this is gold
We can not measure God by physical method, it can not be quantified. It is similar to love, hate, lust and other emotions. You can fell it and feeling changes too. By a philosophical defination you can know god going in the path of righteousness, how to know this path based certain characteristics such as being humble, truth, aquiring scientific knowledge, brotherhood, gratitude, brave etc. Then we might know who the actual god is, is he a male or female, where he recides, what he does, what it eats etc.
14 minutes of confusion 😆
Your debating style & arguments are very similar to Matt Dillahunty minus the aggressiveness of Matt.
Nice job, in India we don't generally have atheists like Lawrence Krauss or Matt. We have Hindu atheists.
I don't think Matt Dillahunty is aggressive. He's just focused.
Hi , I would like to have a similar debate with you...may be we can learn from each other....if you are good with that??? Let me know how can we contact 😊
Creativity is an ongoing process from time immeomrial anadi anant ie god
Just Indian Vimoh.
Everything in this universe is impermanent, अनितिया, do you agree?
Yes I agree 💯
I think nobody searches for god more than an atheist.
This is the true demonstration of having book knowledge and common sense and debating skill, unlike Zohaibb
I became athiest because i can't defend relegion by illogical irrelevant proof its just like advocate can't defend his client without any evidence.
How about a scientific proof of God? Giving each person a personal assistant that only they can talk to? It's intangible.
Any case God knows what will convince an Atheist and he doesn't do anything about it.
How do you know god is not real?
I don't claim that god is not real.
@@vimoh i just want to know who or what according to you God can be ?
I don't know.
@@vimohI guess you couldn't understand my queetion
I mean when you hear the word 'God' what comes to your mind because your underetanding of God is the deciding factor of your belief or disbelief in God
Is it a merciful god that sits in a place called heaven and controls us from above or is it someone or something that can be related to unlimited and formless energy or someone who is beyond everything and ultimate ?
Like Einstien believed in Spinoza God so what's your umderstanding of God ?
@@namah4399 Your question presupposes the fact that there has to be a definition of some kind of God in everyone's mind. To be honest whenever I hear the word 'God' nothing comes to my mind. Literally Nothing. Because as Vimoh already said, "I don't know". How can anything come to my mind about something when I don't even know.
Therefore, the actual deciding factor for me is what your belief in God is! You tell me what your definition of God is and then I can say why I don't believe in your definition because per se I don't have any definition of God other than an "Imaginary character that people believe in".
So, a more logical way to approach this debate is that you tell me your understanding of God because you do have a clear definition of God in your mind.
Do you believe in dragons 🤣🤣
There is no creator it is is is
Vimoh , the creation like you and me , universe not made by accidently without reason , every thing has purpose hence they are made and the creator is called GOD. I would counter argue by giving some example like air , do you see it ? no na , you feel it so you cannot say there is no air . The God is to feel . Tell me how do you prove your consciousness ? you would say no i cannot show you .But it is reflected by your activities or thoughts which you follow and there comes GOD in picture in the form your consciousness .You would say there is some electromagnetic activities due to neurons in brain and hence we can sense and think and act upon . But then i would argue because of that signals or neurons network of brain why cant human creat any other human or animal in lab .
Friend we have ristricted and very less knowledge and based on that we are trying to prove non existence of GOD.
Please try to feel the GOD rather than accepting /rejecting the existence .
So i would say if you donot know the things because you are agonist atheist then you should find out the reason throgh rationalization that yes ther is no God with evidence and prove it rather than rejecting non existence of God.
We have purpose in life and
We don't know if we have purpose in life
Who said we don't see air? We are seeing air. Because their is air light gets refracted and we can see air.
@@ancientminds199 : I have purpose in life hence i am writting here and doing fantastic things in life . What about you , wondering here and there for no purpose.Find it then and live peaceful life.
@@ankitjain3760 That are dust particles from where light is reflected. My point is pure air , through our naked eyes we cannot see it. But through some experiments and experiences we felt its existence .Scientist conducted experiment and proved the mixture of oxygen and nitrogen is air . I also want to tell here until and unless we donot experiment to experience the existence of suprem energy we cannot prove its non existence.
@templeexplorerenglish5387 Pure air. Air is a mixture of gases. How can it be pure.
These all are business.😅😅😅😂😂 Human are using cunningness rather than innosense. 😅😅😅
Dekho agar pata hota
what could serve as evidence for god?
Then atheist hote hi nahi. Phir to uss evidence ke bal par
god disprove ya prove ho jata.
Creativity is god
Taste and see. Bible says
Brief Definition of Allah Qur'an Surah 112
Say, "He is Allāh, [who is] One.
Allāh, the Eternal Refuge
He neither begets nor is born
Nor is there to Him any equivalent."
Qur'an 255
Allāh - there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the Self-Sustaining.Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Who is it that can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what He wills. His Kursī extends over the heavens and the earth, and their preservation tires Him not. And He is the Most High, the Most Great.
All of their claims are coming from those stupid storytelling books written by those scrupulous, meticulous, horrendous persons of nice imaginative capacity who infused their fear of abolishment from existence over these nonsense people who don't realise what is satire and what is sarcasm.
We can't know for sure if God exists or not, which is why theism and atheism are based on faith alone. But I choose theism due to the science that points to the universe having a beginning, and not being eternal in the past. I don't see an encouraging explanation from atheism for our universe existing at all, but many theistic religions try to explain this, and contemporary science seems to back up the faith, especially in Christianity.
Atheism is not based on faith.
Atheism is not based on faith nor it is a religion or a belief system. It's simply an adjective used to describe anyone who does not believe in anything supernatural.
@@rahulmalpe Atheism is pure faith, as it's not based on facts, science or evidence.
A god isn't supernatural as if a god exists it's natural. Unless you can prove a god is supernatural that is, but you lack any arguments, evidence, science or alternative to gods not existing. Atheism is a null point on the question of gods existing, us theists have moved on past your lack of anything useful, and we stick to science and logic.
@@ministryofarguments5257 Lol, i am not sure whether you are being serious or trying to troll people.
@@rahulmalpe Prove to me your blind atheist faith is better than our theistic faith which is not blind, but based on science, logic and reason. Or you can just troll in the name of atheism. But you can try to justify your claim that a god is supernatural, but you would first have to prove gods do not exist as part of our universe.
You are all mixed up aren't you. LOL
Its godlyness not god
Its funny, people who dont want God to exist, are all over the planet. Indian, American, asian, this guy sounds like the arrogant internet atheist in America.
What if GOD died after creating universe?
Then that's not god
@@kartikkumarsah4799 Why?
@@ankitjain3760 if there is a god, how can he die? God is supposed to be powerful or undefeatable right? If he isn't that how he can be god?
@kartikkumarsah4799 That you decided as per your definition? If something is perfect, then what is needed to create a thing.
@@ankitjain3760
This is general definition of god being all powerful,omniscient,omnipresent,infinite,pure and perfect.
if god is perfect and only real thing that exist then there should not be any creation.we should not exist.
Vimoh, agnostic atheist is a position which is in itself cannot confirm your position if you beleive whether god exists or not.
This is like being on either sides..
Either be an atheist or be a beleiver of god.
Lastly there can never be an evidence for god, no one can prove it and hence people always "believe " or "assume" that god exists and if this is true then what is the point of being agnostic?
P.S - I am an Atheist myself.
I think you're misunderstanding the position of Agnostic atheists. It indeed can confirm the position, you just need to clear your definition.
You're presupposing the rules that you've to be on either extremes. It's not necessary at all.
Next thing how do you know that there never will be an evidence of god? Have you seen the entirety of the future?
See, no one can prove it neither disprove it as well. So, it makes the most sense to remain an agnostic.
But the problem arises is that can be said about multiple different things like dragons, Bigfoot etc. It doesn't make sense to remain agnostic about all of them. right?
Therefore, the most logical and safest position is to be an Agnostic Atheist. On the other hand being on either extremes is extremely illogical.
Agar omni present hai to chote bcho ke rape kyu hote hai?
Agar all powerful hai to bchio ke rape hone ze kyu nhi rokta?
Free will?
To bhgwat geeta kyu bolu?
Agar nhi hai free wilk to bhgwan ne hone jyu diya?
I have not talked to anyone who has answered anyone of those questions.
Bhgwan jhooth hai, unfortunately, I'd LOVE there's a dude above me watching me, watching all the shit going around me, or, all, around my world. But there's no one. Religion came to be a story, on top of a story,on top of a story. Bs.
God ne universe create kra? I dont fkin know. Tti se universe aaya? Idfk.
lmao dude maybe he just created us and doesn't give a flying f what happens to us, like we don't care about a small ant or worm, it's funny humans think we're important enough @@gigabrad4570
@@gigabrad4570 bro why u need a stalker💀💀
Firstly, God isn't the word real. God is the Word Truth. Secondly, you don't get knowledge of God without the knowledge of Truth.
God is the word Truth? Then your second statement would read nonsensically as:
"Secondly, you don't get knowledge of Truth(God) without the knowledge of Truth."
@dane947 God is the noun to identify the Truth preceding all other nouns. The beginning. Its just as true as saying a chair is a chair. It is a word in the English language pointing to this state of truth preceding us and our knowledge. There is a truth for the existence of existence, we can agree on that. Although we don't know that truth, it exists. That is the referent for the word God.
@johnathanhunter1351 Ya literally none of that is true, grammatically speaking. You don't get to make stuff up instead of actually providing evidence.
@vimoh
How do you determine whether something is evidence if you do not know what is true? Will you switch the truth to the noun 'reality'? Because that's polytheism.
come to the live stream if you want to talk. any Saturday at 8 pm.
I also believe in Allah the almighty.Atheist don't want to see the "signs" .
What is your evidence?
@@vinchy0966 first define your "evidence".
What is ur signs??
@@m.r.ansari2946 what do you mean define evidence? Just use google ffs
❤❤❤❤❤
Hi , I would like to have a similar debate with you...may be we can learn from each other....if you are good with that??? Let me know 😊
I do a live stream every Wednesday and Saturday at 9:30 pm on the channel Vimoh Live. You can come any time and we can talk. Channel link on main page of this channel.
@@vimoh awesome thanks will join...😊😊