"God gave us free will..." No, he didn't. God created humans to serve him (slavery?). Prior to Eve being convinced by 'the serpent' to eat the apple, humans had no free will. The bible God sounds a lot like a tyrant. Lucifer rebelled from God's tyranny and control to give himself and humans freedom. For that, he is seen as 'evil'.
Exactly, instead of answering the question, they throw another question at you. It's like running in circles, nothing ever gets achieved.. you cannot answer any of the questions of religion hi just saying: will is because God gave you free will... ?? Sorry what. So since we have free will thanks to 'god' we shouldn't critize/question it.
@ChickenTendersAreOk he literally tried to blame the victim of a murder by saying "well but were they actually completely innocent?". I don't even understand how they decided to upload this video afterwards.
Abit late but yeah just look at around 6:49 where he says that it's a real challenge to answer why, subject was on the wars started in his name. Essentially saying "i have no idea" and then when they really can't explain why something happened, well then it was just "god's plan". Like the worst version of "trust me bro"
As a recovering addict, I can confidently say that this man doesn't know what he's talking about. You can't just get rid of an addiction, my dude, that's not how it works
Right? I’m in recovery too and it’s sooo common that addiction is soo misunderstood and stigmatised. In active addiction I even had ppl say don’t waste any naloxone on him if he overdoses he’s done it to himself. It’s like addicts deserve to die coz they are weak etc etc. Hope you’re going strong!! Keep it up
It is true that it comes down to personal choice, I agree. Except I didn't choose to be baptized or educated on a religion since I was born. They tried to "brainwash me" into something I really didn't care about since my first steps.
@@inception252 It's true, look into the shadow on the wall theory or something. Don't know if that's the real name, will come back to edit the real name. Edit. faculty.washington.edu/smcohen/320/cave.htm
What if God Loved you so much that he sent The truth to brainwash you so you could get to heaven? But you had the free will to reject, and you chose that. Have you ever looked it like that.
Yeah according to these two yahoos that was his free will that made him starve to death. God gave him free will so he could love--truly love--begging for food and not getting any. Yeah. Go God!
I only hear excuses and no arguments, but that's the way it is with the believers. But perhaps the Mr. Priest should start his sentences by the word "he belives" and not by emphasizing the existence of God as a fact.
dude yess.. a habit i adopted after i left the church.. anytime i spoke about my beliefs i always stated 'I believe' to remind people it is my belief and they are free to choose their own
@@adammorrello Surely everyone has the right to "believe" what they want. But at the same time I have the right to call it ridiculous, to ridicule it and to make fun of it.
Mr. Robot is correct on so many diffrent levels. And his analogy on drugs is correct and regarding the videos respone on drugs choice, I also agree. But what if this drug is not a choice and is given to us day to day, right after we were born and because it feels good, we don't know that we are drugged.
@@adamingi 'Tis why I didn't baptize my child. I wanted to, but I saw what the church had done to his dad. I think things work out how they should. I eloped, and had my kid 9 mos later in 2000. No one knew my personal stories. A Hopi medicine man saw us when I went home for my school reunion, & drew the cross on my then 2 y/o son's forehead. Life's funny that way.
@@alysiamerdavid-wasser9165 my mom did the same for me , she wanted to baptize me into the catholic church , but she didn't in the end . she doesn't want me being in any religious group . and personally after watching this scene . i don't want to either bc all that elliot is saying is pretty much 100% true
Im Not Sure What Im Doing Here I jus wanna say some people believe that god and Jesus hate the LGBTQ community and that’s false Jesus said no matter u are if your a rapist a gay a racist a criminal etc he will always love u no matter even if u don’t whereship he’ll always and god is not peaceful but he still loves u no matter what he does not cause evil he lets it so that he can save and show us that he has the power to always save us and he gives us free will to do what we want
Devo Gaming An all knowing and all powerful God behind all of creation and free will are incompatible unless we have a case of Schrödinger’s God, it’s a logical falacy. God knows every action you’re going to make in your life long before you were born.
Just to clarify, “agnostic” means “doesn’t know if there’s a god or not.” Most atheists are agnostic (myself included). My view of it is “look, I don’t *know* that there is no god, but I think it’s extremely extremely extremely unlikely.”
Oh dear. I think you've muddied the waters terribly with this analysis. You probably should have done a few minutes' worth of reading about the Elliot character before trying to "react" to this scene. People might come here genuinely trying to understand what that scene was about, but you missed the opportunity. Elliot is a profoundly isolated and alienated "person" who suffered some terrible traumas as a young boy. He suffers from depression, social anxiety and (most likely) Dissociative Identity Disorder. A lot of viewers think he doesn't believe in G-d because of that scene. But he's actually angry at G-d. One can't be angry at G-d if one doesn't believe in G-d. But perhaps the biggest issue is that he's really speaking about organized religion, not G-d. Many organized religions do have a history of oppressing people who have beliefs other than the ones espoused by their own religion. There is no getting around that fact. From the Crusades up to radicals from any belief, damage has been done. The problem really does come down to power. If a religion uses man-made rules to try to control people's behavior, it will always end up this same way. One has to follow creed with deed, otherwise it IS just about control. Helping others, being good to our planet (the home G-d has given us) being good to ourselves (the body G-d gave us), these are the things that move belief from the conceptual to the reality. And as long as people from organized religions do not speak out against the wrongs committed by the leaders of their religion or the radicals within their religion, organized religion can do more harm than good. It doesn't have to be this way. If one hears someone in their religion show anything other than love and tolerance toward the "other" among us, one cannot say they are actually following G-d's path. One doesn't need to agree with what other people believe, but there is no excuse for using G-d as a reason to condemn others. In that case, as Elliot said, G-d isn't a good enough scapegoat. Because it isn't about G-d, but people. People are the ones that can ruin a beautiful experience with intolerance. Control and intolerance are key issues with Elliot. And neither one have a place in religion.
The thing is he doesn't belive in god.....he says at the end he needs a better scapegoat .He also is not angry at god , rather he is angry at the people trying to feed him the belief that god exists and also at their ignorance to belive in something , something just to belive that all is well and good ,and that someone is over up taking care of us,when in reality there is nothing but a baseless hope and ignorance spoon-fed to masses in the name of religion. He just can't stand the ignorance of people and their willingness to be drugged up by hope.
Phew, the point of the "God rant" went straight over your head, guys. You really didn't adress major key points. Oh and you might wanna educate yourself on addiction, too
Right? "We don't watch the show, but let's talk about it like we know what it's about. It's a killer show btw, but we don't watch it." This is how religious leaders (and some of their minions) speak: outta' both side sof their mouths.
I am an atheist and I fully agree with Elliot, however, the note about saving someone who died for no reason, if I were a religious person I'd reply with: "Death is not for those who deserve them because of a sin they've committed. Many die innocent and for no reason. If God wanted to save them all, what would be the point? He'd have to interfere with our daily lives all the time and life wouldn't make sense anymore. As long as people have the ability to kill each other, they will do it. Won't make sense if God tried to stop everyone." Again, I fully agree with Elliot on his other remarks.
@@theshadowfax239 How do you picture that happening? There are deadly diseases and people (which children are part of) can contract them. What scientific reason will save them of this? How can we see it?
Don't tell me God is peaceful... He's (first of not real, let he real) but if he's peaceful then they're wouldn't be diseases, deaths, greed and war. Why? Because in the beginning people put all faith in God and believed that they must fight for him. It's all about prejudice and hate
@ALI MOHAMED nope the result of the first sin brought this crap into the world. I don't think it makes sense but it's something I take on with faith. I know that e everything will be explained in the end
@@aaronrodriguez1410 I'm an atheistic secularhumanist, but I grew up Lutheren so I feel like I should voice my opinion in his hunk of hypocritical dirt that is christianity. You say god knows everything that has happened or is going to happen correct? Why did he creat that tree if he KNEW that Adam and Eve were going to disobey him? Because this isn't a logical answer. He tells you to only follow the ten commandments and the golden rule, right? Then what the hell is with the "don't be gay, don't wear mixed fabrics, no shellfish, ect..."? I seem to remeber a verse where god says it's not a sin to eat animals of the earth. Then why is he NOW deciding it's okay to eat shellfish when earlier he said it's a sin? Why does he say salvery is okay? He's going to burn people for all eternity if they don't believe in him? I'll pass on that childish BS, thank you. You do know there's scientific PROOF of evolution, right? Last question. What makes christianity the 'right' religion? What makes other religion the 'wrong' religion?
@ Im Not Sure What Im Doing Here... I challenge you... open the Bible and READ, all of the truth is in there! To the peaceful question... God isn’t in CONTROL. He’s IN CHARGE . Meaning He loves us so much that He gives us the ability to choose. The Bible says that Satan is the prince of this world and he works in the hearts of people and corrupts them. The Bible also says he comes to KILL STEAL and DESTROY. The world is an Evil world and it’s not God’s fault, it’s the devils work. Again I challenge you to read for yourself the New Testament to understand the word. I Love You and God Loves You Too and He wants You to discover Him.
I lowkey think we are brainwashed we get hints towards being christian in are school in the national anthem “one nation under god” we are being told that no one can help but god
This show is INCREDIBLE. It dives into so many themes and topics in such raw and authentic ways. It does NOT pull punches or shy away from the hard times the characters find themselves in. It's BRILLIANT!
It’s scenes like this that really make me appreciate Ray as a character who represents the other half of the argument. Elliot thinks faith is control/surrender, while Ray thinks faith is therapy/salvation, so there’s a balance there.
These rambling incoherent answers never directly address any of the questions to the point of being embarrassingly cringy. Standard religious talking points.
A person who gets murdered is having their free will taken away. Saying God does not override free will, means he's preferring the free will of the murderer over the free will of the victim.
"its humans choice to kill its free will" Also god: punished Devil for following its own free will. "why did god punished Devil but not people who commit horrible acts just like videos on theync, kaotic or 4chan?" pastor: "lets dont interfare in gods work"
Really appreciated the interpretation being explained to the Pastor. The replies/answers however for me left space for further debate. But respect for watching and reacting to this intense scene at MR.Robot.
Honestly I feel like to get the full setting and understanding of this rant or scene you have to also watch the part where one of the guys talk about beating up an Indian guy and how it was actually a test set by God
Thank you for posting your reaction and insight on this video. I was raised in a fairly religious household (my grandmother worked at our church) and I spent a lot of my childhood hanging out around the church. As an adult, I'm not religious at all. I do find the stories of the bible very inspiring, and I think that was it's intended Christian purpose. I think that there is a line with the bible though, some people use the stories to draw inspiration, while others see it as an instruction manual specifically on how to live life. My personal pet peeve is with Catholicism's confession. I get the point of it, but, when the same people do the same thing week after week and just go back for confession, they are not learning any personal responsibility for their choices; just using a "get out of jail free" card. I've had very religious friends, some even called themselves Jesus-freaks, and I used to love sitting around having religious discussions about our points of view. It's amazing when people let their guard down enough to have a respectful discussion on any topic nowadays, but especially religion. Everything is "either/or" now with no gray areas, everyone has become so polarized with everything. But, again, thank you for your thoughts and insights on this video!
This is a difficult discussion to have with your dad who is a pastor. Most times your dad was putting a plaster on a knife wound and not directly responding to Elliott comments from Elliott's point of view. Still a good video
I live his reaction but I think a better formula for smaller scenes is to let them play through then react if it’s a longer scene then pause it now and then but a real full reaction I feel like would be after seeing the whole clip.
How did I know he will come up with the "free will" crap which is exactly why I love love this show as it is so truthful! Right here what these guys are doing are feeding their addicts with hope and better yet confusion!
Pardon me, I do believe that we do have free will, but I'm not buying the "You can't have true love without free will." May I ask you to give an argument on that statement?
The reason why I can’t believe or even take this guy seriously is because he has an answer for everything that Mr. Robot says. Not once did he not try to make an excuse, say he may be right about something, hell even if he just sat there and said that he doesn’t know would make feel like he’s being a little genuine but it just comes off as fake to me, like he needs to make sure that people don’t doubt his faith so they don’t question or try to think for themselves. It’s boring trying to listen to these people talk cuz they believe in something that is sooooo unprovenable that the only source of evidence that they have is a book that was written thousands of years ago and not once do they even question the legitimacy of said book. Take everything with a grain of salt cuz blind devotion is the biggest drug of all in this planet, either its a religious faith, a political party or even a football club. You’ll never get anything out of it if it doesn’t have your best interest at heart. Also take what I say with a grain of salt, I don’t want you blindly following me.
As a gay guy, I wonder what the pastor means when he talks about “sexual immorality.” All I hear from the pastor are tautologies and excuses. Elliot would systematically dismember all of his arguments (you know, if Elliot were real.)
The first answer the pastor gave : God gave us the free will to choose. My reply: That still does not answer the question as to why god did not save the innocent friend from dying. If god gave us the free will to choose then that makes praying virtually useless, since god will do nothing to intervene or save us in times of trouble.
Why forced slavery is allowed for criminal industries? . Why is it that only money gets you your freedom, health, and love from others. Why are women pressed down? God is as older than slavery, this story is that old.
Can you describe how we have Free Will, pastor? Isn't everything determined? Free Will is the ability to make decisions independent of the past and prior state of the universe, right? Tell me one single event that happened that was independent of the prior state of the universe. Tell me one single event without a cause. Don't mention randomness. Because randomness does not support Free Will.
1. "Drugs are choices" So, do religions are, aren't they ? I mean "free will" don't you see ? People changing their religions! 2. "In relationship with god" Why don't you fall in relationship humanity instead of God ? Didn't god banished 'satan' because he didn't fall in "relationship with the humanity" ? Aren't you going against the god himself ?
Nobody is "against" free will. Nobody is "innocent" because that's how "God" designed humanity, if you believe in that sort of thing. Our world is only "corrupt" from a Biblical point of view. More wars have been started based on religion than for any other reason. There are no just wars, other than defensive actions. Some of the happiest, most nonviolent countries, or people's in the world are Atheist in nature. Keeping your personal "faith" out of other people's lives. God's commands tell you to do things contrary to what he wishes. Then ask yourself, are you doing these thing because you feel better, or worse, or because you feel this is what God wants. Because God doesn't tell you what he wants. Or when he does it goes against our social norms to make us feel like we should be guilty. The basis of the church IS a matter of control. Indoctrination, discouraging asking tough questions.
Lot of hate and cynicism in these comments. I’m not religious but I have to respect the pastor’s willingness and openness to these questions and criticisms. Interesting conversation.
do you guys have seen theync or 4chan realityleaked videos? world is horrible place for a LOT OF people. its like just imagine the worst version torture and i can guarantee that it is happening currently and even worse, being recorded and distributed.
The comment "you can know all the facts, and be clear of all the facts" what facts is he talking about?. i have only recently seen this so i dont know what videos he has reacted to, but there is one id like to see and ill scroll through your videos incase he has reacted to it, and if not ill make a suggestion
I think that I would like to be religious because I do want the hope it gives, but the fact is that it’s hard to just believe something that is just so far beyond my comprehension. I’m not saying that it’s not real or that it is real, just that it’s hard to think about and that I believe there’s probably an infinite number of possibilities out there about how everything came to be, and none can possibly be confirmed or denied by anybody. Then there’s faith - based on what I’ve seen, it must be nice to have. Comforting. And maybe that kind of devotion isn’t just a psychological need to believe that there’s something after - that everything has meaning and a purpose because of some higher power. It would be awesome if I could just believe all of that based on an internal conviction that it’s real and nothing else. And the truth is, any religion has its cons in the sense of extremist. Like anything with a strong level of devotion, it can lead you to do crazy things in the name of it. I’m not talking about a desire to become so devoted to a religion that I’ll throw away my morals (which, there are different levels - for example, the homophobia rampant in Christianity or the wars that have been started). I’m talking about that I do have a desire to feel any sort of hope - it must be nice.
Just I thought but what if we were Angel's kick from heaven or fell and earth is hell and we learn how to live and survive and if angels had wings they got burned off from the fall or god took their powers away
The problem is, Christian wages wars not because they are back in the corner. They wage wars because some people doesn't share the same belief as them. Using illegal drugs is a choice, same goes to religion. Though, if you stop using illegal drugs, nobody will tell you you will go to hell.
Around 13:00 you mention that drug use was a choice and that we don't chose to get dieses, in that I agree. We do have the choice yet it isn't an easy one nor a popular one to make. However, we still choose to take drugs, to follow religion, and yes even to get cancer. As our actions and the actions of others around us affect our world and our bodies. Yet we have chosen this. You say out of all the options you chose Christianity. When looking at the history, the politics, the death, and the outcome it's clear to me that Christianity and the worship of Jesus of Nazareth, and God his father was a political move of the Roman Empire, in which they took well intentioned words into propaganda. The greatest of lies being our division from God, for I believe that I am god. As you are, as your son is, as are all people and beast, flower, and stone. So then, that which makes one most powerful is knowledge, so that one may know all options and therefore make better choices. In doing so being as close to god, for we would be at peace with ourselves and our fellow man.
As for the semantics about the guilty going free... stop. That's ignorance and patronizing. You KNOW the rant is about legitimate monsters- rapists, child molesters, etc. To say "well we're all guilty" to dismiss the legitimate complaint of a deeply wounded and angry person is frankly insulting. That we live in a corrupt world is not an excuse for WHY it happens. That's just admitting it DOES. It doesn't explain WHY or how God allows it. Yes, free will to a degree... but the way you framed that response was horrible. As a survivor of child molestation, by TWO offenders- BOTH OF WHOM NEVER FACED JUSTICE... that "well we're not all innocent" and "it's just an ugly world, so..." crap is disgustingly hurtful. Consider how you talk about these things and how you respond as if you were speaking TO those broken people- cuz isn't that who you say NEED to be reached?!
war started in his name .. I hoped he will go to a history about crusader war, inquisition and things like that if we are talking about christianity. I really dont know why I should believe in any God. Like which one should I choose? Greek Dio, Japan + ese Amaterasu, pegan Odin and we can continue to name of them all. Every country had different gods, some religions just took over to modern days...Its just a excuse and god will forgive you if you do something wrong .... BE A HUMAN AND TREAD PEOPLE RIGHT.
Wow, as a kid that was raised catholic, but is now generally agnostic, I have to be Honest, You missed the mark on nearly every point, and Badly. Not knowing a Thing about the show, and commenting anyway speaks volumes ! ! ! Here's why, the shows anti-hero is a highly intelligent cybersecurity analyst by day, and anarchist black/grey hat computer hacker, to feed the Narcistic ego, and Opiods to control the extreme Social anxiety, loneliness, depression, and visual and auditory halucinations. So anything You thought he was thinking / feeling, missed it by a couple Light Years. But Hell thats no excuse for not being able to mystify with some words and thoughts of JC ! Im thinking the Cort room scene from the show Messiah, would have been better response.
I have a question, mainly concerning the idea of how the christian god gives free will and won't act against it, but also a bit about his lack of intervention in the scenario of wars in his name. The thing is: How is this idea compatible with the ideas of sin (both regular sins, the deadly sins and the original sins), hell, and Divine Judgement such as the one carried upon Sodom and Gomorrah ? It also supposedly freed the Israelites from slavery in Egypt, but no other slaved minority.
well.. people believe God is perfect all knowing all wise all powerful.. they also believe God created humans vulnerable to sins and evil.. God created a specialized creature whose responsibility is to make humans sin... now God is watching and already knows who is going to make the right moves and who is going to fail... despite that he have a special place filled with fire for the sinners to suffer till the end of the time.. but he loves them.. can any one see the holes in this scenario and how naive it is?
You say love doesn’t work with out free will but can you truly say we have have free will given the fact that god is all knowing and all that and that he has a plan he knows what will happen and what choices we will make and he was the power to change that but yet we still feel love and even ignoring god their I a point to be made that free will isn’t real and a trick are brains play on them selves
Well if one random person chose it makes it important? Care about others? I am sorry just pick up the bible, and see the actual contradictions though it all.
Good on you guys for standing up for what you believe in - I am a Christian too, hope and pray you guys are okay as I see you haven't posted for a while. God bless!
How are you going to pray that somebody is okay when god will do nothing because we have free will. Okay so god is in charge but no control so what does praying actually do? You pray for somebody’s health or healing or for that person in general but if we all have free will then speaking on it in gods name will do absolutely nothing
The only thing praying does is bring you hope and make you feel better it doesn’t do anything for anybody else just to show you that you can’t handle things on your own in outside world so you really do have to hang everything on your imaginary friend.
@@bobkeen2774 Hiya Bob! You have some really interesting views on free will and how that seemingly obstructs the hand/ power of God. I do agree that people have free will - (the ability to act out of one's own willpower/ discretion) and agree that praying does give one a sense of hope especially when things are hard to handle. As for the aspect of free will and God's ability to change circumstance (e.g. illness, circumstances, joblessness) by intervening (e.g. that person getting better, circumstnace changing, finding a job under very small odds) I don't see as contradicting. I believe God made man in such a way that their decisions are their own but knew those decisions before the begining of time and intervens in a way to guide people (e.g. hardening Pharoh's hearts though his pride, leading Paul to repentance by an encounter on the road to Demascus).
@@bobkeen2774 I agree I am dependant on God but everybody makes a god/ idol out of something (e.g. drugs, gaming, popstars) because we have a human desire to to elevate things so we can better cope with life (and many more reasons that go beyond by intellect). I believe Jesus is the only one worthy of such praise, living a sinless life for me and everybody so that we could know Him in a relationship, escape hell and live in true peace.
@@xtscarfacem8255 all cultures have a certain degree of indoctrination, man. Apart from the homophobia and anti-science movements within Christianity, I don't see how it is worse than other cultures.
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Nah nah
No man
Naaaah dude im good. Stopped drinking the kool aid way back!!
Sorry. God is not a good enough scapegoat for me
"God gave us free will..."
No, he didn't. God created humans to serve him (slavery?). Prior to Eve being convinced by 'the serpent' to eat the apple, humans had no free will.
The bible God sounds a lot like a tyrant. Lucifer rebelled from God's tyranny and control to give himself and humans freedom. For that, he is seen as 'evil'.
These circular arguments are part of why religion never made sense to me.
Exactly, instead of answering the question, they throw another question at you. It's like running in circles, nothing ever gets achieved.. you cannot answer any of the questions of religion hi just saying: will is because God gave you free will... ?? Sorry what. So since we have free will thanks to 'god' we shouldn't critize/question it.
no one cares wether u believe or not
@@inception252 i care
Thank you!!
Enrique Garcia's comment:
"The thing about drugs is it is a choice..."
The implication being that religion is FORCED.... accurate.
In truth, the priest has no answers for any of the questions.
No shit...He was just saying what he believe...
@ChickenTendersAreOk he literally tried to blame the victim of a murder by saying "well but were they actually completely innocent?". I don't even understand how they decided to upload this video afterwards.
Abit late but yeah just look at around 6:49 where he says that it's a real challenge to answer why, subject was on the wars started in his name. Essentially saying "i have no idea" and then when they really can't explain why something happened, well then it was just "god's plan". Like the worst version of "trust me bro"
"The thing about drugs is it is a choice..."
The implication being that religion is FORCED.... accurate.
As a recovering addict, I can confidently say that this man doesn't know what he's talking about. You can't just get rid of an addiction, my dude, that's not how it works
Right? I’m in recovery too and it’s sooo common that addiction is soo misunderstood and stigmatised.
In active addiction I even had ppl say don’t waste any naloxone on him if he overdoses he’s done it to himself.
It’s like addicts deserve to die coz they are weak etc etc.
Hope you’re going strong!!
Keep it up
God, to me, is kind of like Santa for adults.
Your a idiot
@@LeønardoHimself24 Coming from a fucktard, thanks!! 😁
Opinions are like assholes. Remember? Unless you're trying to say that you can have one but I can't?
Perhaps you're "numb all the time" because there isn't anyone up there helping you....
This is what I've always said
It is true that it comes down to personal choice, I agree. Except I didn't choose to be baptized or educated on a religion since I was born. They tried to "brainwash me" into something I really didn't care about since my first steps.
Exactly! They don’t generally pump children full of heroin and then say they had a choice.
brainwash
lol
@@inception252 It's true, look into the shadow on the wall theory or something.
Don't know if that's the real name, will come back to edit the real name.
Edit. faculty.washington.edu/smcohen/320/cave.htm
What if God Loved you so much that he sent The truth to brainwash you so you could get to heaven? But you had the free will to reject, and you chose that. Have you ever looked it like that.
@@DMcMCProjects what if i have free will to not believe you and your god that you're talking about?
The individual praying on the streets of Africa for food. And still dies
Yeah according to these two yahoos that was his free will that made him starve to death. God gave him free will so he could love--truly love--begging for food and not getting any. Yeah. Go God!
@@eveo7643 my man died and his is not the first, god doesn't exist, no Allah no God no nothing
I only hear excuses and no arguments, but that's the way it is with the believers. But perhaps the Mr. Priest should start his sentences by the word "he belives" and not by emphasizing the existence of God as a fact.
dude yess.. a habit i adopted after i left the church.. anytime i spoke about my beliefs i always stated 'I believe' to remind people it is my belief and they are free to choose their own
@@adammorrello Surely everyone has the right to "believe" what they want. But at the same time I have the right to call it ridiculous, to ridicule it and to make fun of it.
@@adammorrello actual facts man. Its insane how many people are stuck doing things that they were always told were right
Mr. Robot is correct on so many diffrent levels. And his analogy on drugs is correct and regarding the videos respone on drugs choice, I also agree. But what if this drug is not a choice and is given to us day to day, right after we were born and because it feels good, we don't know that we are drugged.
Kushal Bastakoti then that's indoctrination and abuse.
@@pnut3844able so exactly what religion is
@@adamingi 'Tis why I didn't baptize my child. I wanted to, but I saw what the church had done to his dad. I think things work out how they should. I eloped, and had my kid 9 mos later in 2000. No one knew my personal stories. A Hopi medicine man saw us when I went home for my school reunion, & drew the cross on my then 2 y/o son's forehead. Life's funny that way.
@@alysiamerdavid-wasser9165 my mom did the same for me , she wanted to baptize me into the catholic church , but she didn't in the end . she doesn't want me being in any religious group . and personally after watching this scene . i don't want to either bc all that elliot is saying is pretty much 100% true
@@adamingi exactly
God is PEACEFUL? That's the funniest thing I've heard all day!
Hey man what’s your point
@@devogaming4445 That god isn't peacful? Not implying that he even does exist...
Im Not Sure What Im Doing Here I jus wanna say some people believe that god and Jesus hate the LGBTQ community and that’s false Jesus said no matter u are if your a rapist a gay a racist a criminal etc he will always love u no matter even if u don’t whereship he’ll always and god is not peaceful but he still loves u no matter what he does not cause evil he lets it so that he can save and show us that he has the power to always save us and he gives us free will to do what we want
Devo Gaming An all knowing and all powerful God behind all of creation and free will are incompatible unless we have a case of Schrödinger’s God, it’s a logical falacy. God knows every action you’re going to make in your life long before you were born.
God is only as peaceful as the man who said he is. Which in the context of war is never.
hes never answering the question on what he says.....
because there's no answers.
Bc they can't answer the hard questions. Either he knows that, or the cognitive dissonance kicks in and that's all she wrote.
Putting the red line on your thumbnail to make it look like i already watched this is sooo fucking low
You deserve more likes
Yea why would they do that? Wouldn't that discourage people from watching it?
I think this video just put more doubt in agnostic people about god.
Just to clarify, “agnostic” means “doesn’t know if there’s a god or not.”
Most atheists are agnostic (myself included). My view of it is “look, I don’t *know* that there is no god, but I think it’s extremely extremely extremely unlikely.”
@@coena9377 yeah its about believe because we will never know. But i do believe there is no gods. Atheist here.
@@coena9377beat me to it
Guy who believes in an imaginary friend defends imaginary friend.
His imaginary friend drown trillions of innocent animals in a flood?
Oh dear. I think you've muddied the waters terribly with this analysis. You probably should have done a few minutes' worth of reading about the Elliot character before trying to "react" to this scene. People might come here genuinely trying to understand what that scene was about, but you missed the opportunity. Elliot is a profoundly isolated and alienated "person" who suffered some terrible traumas as a young boy. He suffers from depression, social anxiety and (most likely) Dissociative Identity Disorder. A lot of viewers think he doesn't believe in G-d because of that scene. But he's actually angry at G-d. One can't be angry at G-d if one doesn't believe in G-d. But perhaps the biggest issue is that he's really speaking about organized religion, not G-d. Many organized religions do have a history of oppressing people who have beliefs other than the ones espoused by their own religion. There is no getting around that fact. From the Crusades up to radicals from any belief, damage has been done. The problem really does come down to power. If a religion uses man-made rules to try to control people's behavior, it will always end up this same way. One has to follow creed with deed, otherwise it IS just about control. Helping others, being good to our planet (the home G-d has given us) being good to ourselves (the body G-d gave us), these are the things that move belief from the conceptual to the reality. And as long as people from organized religions do not speak out against the wrongs committed by the leaders of their religion or the radicals within their religion, organized religion can do more harm than good. It doesn't have to be this way. If one hears someone in their religion show anything other than love and tolerance toward the "other" among us, one cannot say they are actually following G-d's path. One doesn't need to agree with what other people believe, but there is no excuse for using G-d as a reason to condemn others. In that case, as Elliot said, G-d isn't a good enough scapegoat. Because it isn't about G-d, but people. People are the ones that can ruin a beautiful experience with intolerance. Control and intolerance are key issues with Elliot. And neither one have a place in religion.
The thing is he doesn't belive in god.....he says at the end he needs a better scapegoat .He also is not angry at god , rather he is angry at the people trying to feed him the belief that god exists and also at their ignorance to belive in something , something just to belive that all is well and good ,and that someone is over up taking care of us,when in reality there is nothing but a baseless hope and ignorance spoon-fed to masses in the name of religion. He just can't stand the ignorance of people and their willingness to be drugged up by hope.
They'd have to watch the entire show for context lol
Phew, the point of the "God rant" went straight over your head, guys. You really didn't adress major key points.
Oh and you might wanna educate yourself on addiction, too
First, it would be good to watch the show and understand what it is all about.
Right? "We don't watch the show, but let's talk about it like we know what it's about. It's a killer show btw, but we don't watch it."
This is how religious leaders (and some of their minions) speak: outta' both side sof their mouths.
Yea, there's a TON of context they're missing
I am an atheist and I fully agree with Elliot, however, the note about saving someone who died for no reason, if I were a religious person I'd reply with:
"Death is not for those who deserve them because of a sin they've committed. Many die innocent and for no reason. If God wanted to save them all, what would be the point? He'd have to interfere with our daily lives all the time and life wouldn't make sense anymore. As long as people have the ability to kill each other, they will do it. Won't make sense if God tried to stop everyone."
Again, I fully agree with Elliot on his other remarks.
Wouldn't take much interference with daily life to rid children of deadly diseases. 🤷♀️
@@theshadowfax239 How do you picture that happening? There are deadly diseases and people (which children are part of) can contract them. What scientific reason will save them of this? How can we see it?
Don't tell me God is peaceful... He's (first of not real, let he real) but if he's peaceful then they're wouldn't be diseases, deaths, greed and war.
Why? Because in the beginning people put all faith in God and believed that they must fight for him. It's all about prejudice and hate
There wouldn't be pain and suffering argument has been brought up so many times. We did this. We do this it's no one's fault but ours
He is peaceful but we live in a fallen world that is ruled by satan (for now). Everyone wants to blame God but not the devil 🙉🤯
@ALI MOHAMED nope the result of the first sin brought this crap into the world. I don't think it makes sense but it's something I take on with faith. I know that e everything will be explained in the end
@@aaronrodriguez1410 I'm an atheistic secularhumanist, but I grew up Lutheren so I feel like I should voice my opinion in his hunk of hypocritical dirt that is christianity. You say god knows everything that has happened or is going to happen correct? Why did he creat that tree if he KNEW that Adam and Eve were going to disobey him? Because this isn't a logical answer. He tells you to only follow the ten commandments and the golden rule, right? Then what the hell is with the "don't be gay, don't wear mixed fabrics, no shellfish, ect..."? I seem to remeber a verse where god says it's not a sin to eat animals of the earth. Then why is he NOW deciding it's okay to eat shellfish when earlier he said it's a sin? Why does he say salvery is okay? He's going to burn people for all eternity if they don't believe in him? I'll pass on that childish BS, thank you. You do know there's scientific PROOF of evolution, right?
Last question. What makes christianity the 'right' religion? What makes other religion the 'wrong' religion?
@ Im Not Sure What Im Doing Here... I challenge you... open the Bible and READ, all of the truth is in there! To the peaceful question... God isn’t in CONTROL. He’s IN CHARGE . Meaning He loves us so much that He gives us the ability to choose. The Bible says that Satan is the prince of this world and he works in the hearts of people and corrupts them. The Bible also says he comes to KILL STEAL and DESTROY. The world is an Evil world and it’s not God’s fault, it’s the devils work. Again I challenge you to read for yourself the New Testament to understand the word. I Love You and God Loves You Too and He wants You to discover Him.
Elliot was spot on in this scene.
I lowkey think we are brainwashed we get hints towards being christian in are school in the national anthem “one nation under god” we are being told that no one can help but god
We also watch tv then see advertisements for churches and Christian events
This show is INCREDIBLE. It dives into so many themes and topics in such raw and authentic ways. It does NOT pull punches or shy away from the hard times the characters find themselves in. It's BRILLIANT!
If he had ever been addicted to drugs,and said you can choose to stop it would've held more weight
sad part is this is one of the few reactions to this great scene
Absolutely clear and concrete, he describes reality, I don't need gods to be a good person, less charlatans, more science please.
It’s scenes like this that really make me appreciate Ray as a character who represents the other half of the argument. Elliot thinks faith is control/surrender, while Ray thinks faith is therapy/salvation, so there’s a balance there.
These rambling incoherent answers never directly address any of the questions to the point of being embarrassingly cringy. Standard religious talking points.
A person who gets murdered is having their free will taken away.
Saying God does not override free will, means he's preferring the free will of the murderer over the free will of the victim.
Well, this'll probably be interesting.
Religious people protecting god are like fans protectin thseir favourits. They will always try to explain you, why he is the best.
Is god doesn't exist, why hate or ridicule a suppose fictional character?
Name one person who has had a horrible life whilst following the standard that god call upon you to fulfill.
this is hilarious
"its humans choice to kill its free will"
Also god: punished Devil for following its own free will.
"why did god punished Devil but not people who commit horrible acts just like videos on theync, kaotic or 4chan?"
pastor: "lets dont interfare in gods work"
Really appreciated the interpretation being explained to the Pastor.
The replies/answers however for me left space for further debate.
But respect for watching and reacting to this intense scene at MR.Robot.
Honestly I feel like to get the full setting and understanding of this rant or scene you have to also watch the part where one of the guys talk about beating up an Indian guy and how it was actually a test set by God
Thank you for posting your reaction and insight on this video. I was raised in a fairly religious household (my grandmother worked at our church) and I spent a lot of my childhood hanging out around the church. As an adult, I'm not religious at all. I do find the stories of the bible very inspiring, and I think that was it's intended Christian purpose. I think that there is a line with the bible though, some people use the stories to draw inspiration, while others see it as an instruction manual specifically on how to live life. My personal pet peeve is with Catholicism's confession. I get the point of it, but, when the same people do the same thing week after week and just go back for confession, they are not learning any personal responsibility for their choices; just using a "get out of jail free" card. I've had very religious friends, some even called themselves Jesus-freaks, and I used to love sitting around having religious discussions about our points of view. It's amazing when people let their guard down enough to have a respectful discussion on any topic nowadays, but especially religion. Everything is "either/or" now with no gray areas, everyone has become so polarized with everything. But, again, thank you for your thoughts and insights on this video!
This is a difficult discussion to have with your dad who is a pastor. Most times your dad was putting a plaster on a knife wound and not directly responding to Elliott comments from Elliott's point of view. Still a good video
Ho boy I could see the pastor face getting changed as the video rolls 🤣
Philosophy is about questions you can't answer.
Religion is about answers you can't question.
I live his reaction but I think a better formula for smaller scenes is to let them play through then react if it’s a longer scene then pause it now and then but a real full reaction I feel like would be after seeing the whole clip.
So if that's the case, God allows everything to happen, even those really bad things then god therefore isn't merciful.
I actually really like and agree with his thought on religion vs relationship
How did I know he will come up with the "free will" crap which is exactly why I love love this show as it is so truthful! Right here what these guys are doing are feeding their addicts with hope and better yet confusion!
Pardon me, I do believe that we do have free will, but I'm not buying the "You can't have true love without free will." May I ask you to give an argument on that statement?
12:27 using drugs as a vice is a choice. But addiction is a disease. Addiction affects entire family units
My life changed for the better when I escaped from the moral immensity and questionable teachings.
The reason why I can’t believe or even take this guy seriously is because he has an answer for everything that Mr. Robot says. Not once did he not try to make an excuse, say he may be right about something, hell even if he just sat there and said that he doesn’t know would make feel like he’s being a little genuine but it just comes off as fake to me, like he needs to make sure that people don’t doubt his faith so they don’t question or try to think for themselves. It’s boring trying to listen to these people talk cuz they believe in something that is sooooo unprovenable that the only source of evidence that they have is a book that was written thousands of years ago and not once do they even question the legitimacy of said book. Take everything with a grain of salt cuz blind devotion is the biggest drug of all in this planet, either its a religious faith, a political party or even a football club. You’ll never get anything out of it if it doesn’t have your best interest at heart. Also take what I say with a grain of salt, I don’t want you blindly following me.
Circular logic, what religious people use to justify fantasy.
As a gay guy, I wonder what the pastor means when he talks about “sexual immorality.” All I hear from the pastor are tautologies and excuses. Elliot would systematically dismember all of his arguments (you know, if Elliot were real.)
The first answer the pastor gave : God gave us the free will to choose.
My reply: That still does not answer the question as to why god did not save the innocent friend from dying. If god gave us the free will to choose then that makes praying virtually useless, since god will do nothing to intervene or save us in times of trouble.
Dedication to reality at all costs
Let your old man react to Tyler burden on fight club
Hell yeah
I am so angry that I was tricked by my self to believe in this bs
He's talking about the elites creating their own religions, so it's easy to divide us
Wasn’t it the snake that gives us freedom in that silly book of yours?
They didn't talk about the separation part
The Abrahamic God is not at all a Peaceful God. He is vengeful
Why forced slavery is allowed for criminal industries? . Why is it that only money gets you your freedom, health, and love from others. Why are women pressed down? God is as older than slavery, this story is that old.
5:10 you are 100% correct, that is what elliot was trying to explain
Can you describe how we have Free Will, pastor?
Isn't everything determined?
Free Will is the ability to make decisions independent of the past and prior state of the universe, right?
Tell me one single event that happened that was independent of the prior state of the universe.
Tell me one single event without a cause.
Don't mention randomness. Because randomness does not support Free Will.
1. "Drugs are choices"
So, do religions are, aren't they ? I mean "free will" don't you see ? People changing their religions!
2. "In relationship with god"
Why don't you fall in relationship humanity instead of God ? Didn't god banished 'satan' because he didn't fall in "relationship with the humanity" ? Aren't you going against the god himself ?
Nobody is "against" free will. Nobody is "innocent" because that's how "God" designed humanity, if you believe in that sort of thing. Our world is only "corrupt" from a Biblical point of view. More wars have been started based on religion than for any other reason. There are no just wars, other than defensive actions. Some of the happiest, most nonviolent countries, or people's in the world are Atheist in nature. Keeping your personal "faith" out of other people's lives. God's commands tell you to do things contrary to what he wishes. Then ask yourself, are you doing these thing because you feel better, or worse, or because you feel this is what God wants. Because God doesn't tell you what he wants. Or when he does it goes against our social norms to make us feel like we should be guilty. The basis of the church IS a matter of control. Indoctrination, discouraging asking tough questions.
How about the 27 commandments? We don’t follow 17 of them. We choose what god says, not the other way around.
I Believe it’s actually the 12 commandments
You should react to why I hate religion but love jesus
Amen
now this is good
y'all do realize that Rami Malek (the actor for Elliot) is religious right?
Off topic, but you guys seriously look like Robby and Johnny from Cobra Kai, the resemblance is almost uncanny.
Lot of hate and cynicism in these comments. I’m not religious but I have to respect the pastor’s willingness and openness to these questions and criticisms. Interesting conversation.
do you guys have seen theync or 4chan realityleaked videos? world is horrible place for a LOT OF people. its like just imagine the worst version torture and i can guarantee that it is happening currently and even worse, being recorded and distributed.
The comment "you can know all the facts, and be clear of all the facts" what facts is he talking about?. i have only recently seen this so i dont know what videos he has reacted to, but there is one id like to see and ill scroll through your videos incase he has reacted to it, and if not ill make a suggestion
I think that I would like to be religious because I do want the hope it gives, but the fact is that it’s hard to just believe something that is just so far beyond my comprehension. I’m not saying that it’s not real or that it is real, just that it’s hard to think about and that I believe there’s probably an infinite number of possibilities out there about how everything came to be, and none can possibly be confirmed or denied by anybody. Then there’s faith - based on what I’ve seen, it must be nice to have. Comforting. And maybe that kind of devotion isn’t just a psychological need to believe that there’s something after - that everything has meaning and a purpose because of some higher power. It would be awesome if I could just believe all of that based on an internal conviction that it’s real and nothing else. And the truth is, any religion has its cons in the sense of extremist. Like anything with a strong level of devotion, it can lead you to do crazy things in the name of it. I’m not talking about a desire to become so devoted to a religion that I’ll throw away my morals (which, there are different levels - for example, the homophobia rampant in Christianity or the wars that have been started). I’m talking about that I do have a desire to feel any sort of hope - it must be nice.
My most favourite scene of mr robot
Just I thought but what if we were Angel's kick from heaven or fell and earth is hell and we learn how to live and survive and if angels had wings they got burned off from the fall or god took their powers away
You guys completely missed his point
The problem is, Christian wages wars not because they are back in the corner. They wage wars because some people doesn't share the same belief as them.
Using illegal drugs is a choice, same goes to religion. Though, if you stop using illegal drugs, nobody will tell you you will go to hell.
Around 13:00 you mention that drug use was a choice and that we don't chose to get dieses, in that I agree. We do have the choice yet it isn't an easy one nor a popular one to make. However, we still choose to take drugs, to follow religion, and yes even to get cancer. As our actions and the actions of others around us affect our world and our bodies. Yet we have chosen this. You say out of all the options you chose Christianity. When looking at the history, the politics, the death, and the outcome it's clear to me that Christianity and the worship of Jesus of Nazareth, and God his father was a political move of the Roman Empire, in which they took well intentioned words into propaganda. The greatest of lies being our division from God, for I believe that I am god. As you are, as your son is, as are all people and beast, flower, and stone. So then, that which makes one most powerful is knowledge, so that one may know all options and therefore make better choices. In doing so being as close to god, for we would be at peace with ourselves and our fellow man.
I dunno, but have you seen the indian movie titled PK? Where a religious leader is having a debate with the main character called PK.
As for the semantics about the guilty going free... stop. That's ignorance and patronizing. You KNOW the rant is about legitimate monsters- rapists, child molesters, etc. To say "well we're all guilty" to dismiss the legitimate complaint of a deeply wounded and angry person is frankly insulting. That we live in a corrupt world is not an excuse for WHY it happens. That's just admitting it DOES. It doesn't explain WHY or how God allows it. Yes, free will to a degree... but the way you framed that response was horrible. As a survivor of child molestation, by TWO offenders- BOTH OF WHOM NEVER FACED JUSTICE... that "well we're not all innocent" and "it's just an ugly world, so..." crap is disgustingly hurtful. Consider how you talk about these things and how you respond as if you were speaking TO those broken people- cuz isn't that who you say NEED to be reached?!
Ummm "hello mcfly" holy crusades?
Praise the sun
He created us with Freewill?!
That's utterly. BS.
war started in his name .. I hoped he will go to a history about crusader war, inquisition and things like that if we are talking about christianity. I really dont know why I should believe in any God. Like which one should I choose? Greek Dio, Japan + ese Amaterasu, pegan Odin and we can continue to name of them all. Every country had different gods, some religions just took over to modern days...Its just a excuse and god will forgive you if you do something wrong .... BE A HUMAN AND TREAD PEOPLE RIGHT.
Great video. As an adamant agnostic this is a great reaction to something philosophically profound. As much as I may disagree with the pastor.
Wow, as a kid that was raised catholic, but is now generally agnostic, I have to be Honest, You missed the mark on nearly every point, and Badly.
Not knowing a Thing about the show, and commenting anyway speaks volumes ! ! !
Here's why, the shows anti-hero is a highly intelligent cybersecurity analyst by day, and anarchist black/grey hat computer hacker, to feed the Narcistic ego, and Opiods to control the extreme Social anxiety, loneliness, depression, and visual and auditory halucinations.
So anything You thought he was thinking / feeling, missed it by a couple Light Years.
But Hell thats no excuse for not being able to mystify with some words and thoughts of JC !
Im thinking the Cort room scene from the show Messiah, would have been better response.
I have a question, mainly concerning the idea of how the christian god gives free will and won't act against it, but also a bit about his lack of intervention in the scenario of wars in his name. The thing is: How is this idea compatible with the ideas of sin (both regular sins, the deadly sins and the original sins), hell, and Divine Judgement such as the one carried upon Sodom and Gomorrah ? It also supposedly freed the Israelites from slavery in Egypt, but no other slaved minority.
Classic Christian apologetics. Nothing new, or interesting to see here folks.
free will should not be there everyone should think the same way then there will be no problems
You’re describing a utopia. And yes that’d be ideal and great. Let’s hope
Why is he not answering the questions that the other guy is asking him? lmao
well.. people believe God is perfect all knowing all wise all powerful.. they also believe God created humans vulnerable to sins and evil.. God created a specialized creature whose responsibility is to make humans sin... now God is watching and already knows who is going to make the right moves and who is going to fail... despite that he have a special place filled with fire for the sinners to suffer till the end of the time.. but he loves them.. can any one see the holes in this scenario and how naive it is?
by the way.. i am also talking about all the organised religions...
i hope one day I find a reasonable "scenario" for the "God" thesis to consider
God is peaceful
- The devil
You say love doesn’t work with out free will but can you truly say we have have free will given the fact that god is all knowing and all that and that he has a plan he knows what will happen and what choices we will make and he was the power to change that but yet we still feel love and even ignoring god their I a point to be made that free will isn’t real and a trick are brains play on them selves
What do ya know?! I just wasted 3 mins of my time
You cut scenes off before the point.. just stop
Well if one random person chose it makes it important? Care about others? I am sorry just pick up the bible, and see the actual contradictions though it all.
Smh 🤦♂️
George Carlin
Religion is a choice too bud
Hell isnt
This video was so helpful! Thank you
How????🤨
Good on you guys for standing up for what you believe in - I am a Christian too, hope and pray you guys are okay as I see you haven't posted for a while. God bless!
How are you going to pray that somebody is okay when god will do nothing because we have free will. Okay so god is in charge but no control so what does praying actually do? You pray for somebody’s health or healing or for that person in general but if we all have free will then speaking on it in gods name will do absolutely nothing
The only thing praying does is bring you hope and make you feel better it doesn’t do anything for anybody else just to show you that you can’t handle things on your own in outside world so you really do have to hang everything on your imaginary friend.
@@bobkeen2774 Hiya Bob! You have some really interesting views on free will and how that seemingly obstructs the hand/ power of God. I do agree that people have free will - (the ability to act out of one's own willpower/ discretion) and agree that praying does give one a sense of hope especially when things are hard to handle. As for the aspect of free will and God's ability to change circumstance (e.g. illness, circumstances, joblessness) by intervening (e.g. that person getting better, circumstnace changing, finding a job under very small odds) I don't see as contradicting. I believe God made man in such a way that their decisions are their own but knew those decisions before the begining of time and intervens in a way to guide people (e.g. hardening Pharoh's hearts though his pride, leading Paul to repentance by an encounter on the road to Demascus).
@@bobkeen2774 I hope you have a good day and enjoy a happy Thanksgiving this month!
@@bobkeen2774 I agree I am dependant on God but everybody makes a god/ idol out of something (e.g. drugs, gaming, popstars) because we have a human desire to to elevate things so we can better cope with life (and many more reasons that go beyond by intellect). I believe Jesus is the only one worthy of such praise, living a sinless life for me and everybody so that we could know Him in a relationship, escape hell and live in true peace.
Thank you for your calmed and well articulated response. You said it perfectly: it all boils down to a personal choice. I'm an atheist by the way.
What about indoctrination!?
@@xtscarfacem8255 all cultures have a certain degree of indoctrination, man. Apart from the homophobia and anti-science movements within Christianity, I don't see how it is worse than other cultures.