Data sheet for this cell: diysolarforum.com/resources/ganfeng-solid-state-lithium-ion-42ah-pouch-cell-battery-data-sheet.297/ This would not happen with a LiFePO4! I would consider this chemistry as dangerous as lithium polymer, and we do not use any cobalt based chemistry on this channel for this very reason. 0:00 Intro 3:03 Tear Down 6:37 Puncture Test 7:02 FIRE 8:14 Conclusion ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Does off-grid solar confuse you? Check out my DIY friendly website for solar system packages and product recommendations, and so much more! www.mobile-solarpower.com Join our DIY solar community! #1 largest solar forum on the internet for beginners and professionals alike: www.diysolarforum.com Check out my best-selling, beginner-friendly 12V off-grid solar book (affiliate link): amzn.to/2Aj4dX4 If DIY is not for you, but you love solar and need an offgrid system, check out Tesla Solar. Low prices and great warranty, and they can take your entire house offgrid with their new Powerwalls: ts.la/william57509 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My offgrid solar equipment recommendations (Constantly updated! Check here first): 12V/48V Lithium Batteries: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-batteries.html Solar System Component Directory: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solarcomponents.html Plug-N-Play Systems: www.mobile-solarpower.com/full-size-systems.html Complete 48V System Kits: www.mobile-solarpower.com/complete-48v-solar-kits.html DIY Friendly Air Conditioner/ Heat Pumps: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-friendly-air-conditioners.html Complete 48V System Blueprint: www.mobile-solarpower.com/48v-complete-system-blueprint.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My Favorite Online Stores for DIY Solar and Coupon Codes: -Current Connected: SOK, Victron and High Quality Components. Best prices and warranty around: currentconnected.com/?ref=wp -Signature Solar: Cheap Server Rack Batteries and Large Solar Panels: www.signaturesolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek -Ecoflow Delta Official Site: My favorite plug-n-play solar generator: us.ecoflow.com/?aff=7 -AmpereTime: Cheapest 12V batteries around: amperetime.com/products/ampere-time-12v-100ah-lithium-lifepo4-battery?ref=h-cvbzfahsek -Rich Solar: Mega site and cheaper prices than renogy! Check them out: richsolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek -Shop Solar Kits: Huge site with every solar kit you can imagine! Check it out: shopsolarkits.com/?ref=will-p -Battery Hookup: Cheap cell deals bit.ly/2mIxSqt 10% off code: diysolar -Watts 24/7: Best deals on all-in-one solar power systems, with customer support and distribution here in the USA: watts247.com/?wpam_id=3 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Contact Information: I am NOT available for personal solar system consult! If you wish to contact me, this is my direct email: williamprowsediysolar@gmail.com Join the forum at diysolarforum.com/ if you wish to hang out with myself and others and talk about solar FTC Disclosure Statement and Disclaimers: Every video includes some form of paid promotion or sponsorship. Some links on this youtube channel may be affiliate links. We may get paid if you buy something or take an action after clicking one of these. My videos are for educational purpose only. Information is subject to change/update at anytime. Electricity is DANGEROUS and can kill. Be smart and use common sense :) DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, An affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com
Will, I have an interesting theory that you might have to cross-check. I am of the view that it was the drilling movement that initiated the fire and not the mere exposure of the lithium-ion. What was done in the video sent to you is different from your experience.
their screwdriver also made it so very little oxygen was reaching the interior of the cell. the heat/chips from the drill may not have helped, but you should be able to drill through it many times with no issue. SS still has a long way to go. Toyota supposedly has something "amazing" in the works, supposedly. Thanks for a great vid!
Initially I thought the thumbnail was Clickbait. Then, having watched the video Will has proven out that claims by manufacturers must be tested. They are just puffing until they are tested and proven right or wrong.
This by far was the most exciting Will Prowse video I have seen! This is why I only use Lithium Phosphate You just don't run into those kinds of explosive issues!
@@leonordin3052 low amp power draw? that' not accurate. c rating is lower compared to li-ion. but that doesn't mean it's low. its just lower in conparison.
Glad you posted this. Can't say your test was the same as the Chins test since the drill created far more friction than a sharp object being shoved directly through a cel with no rotational force. But your point is still very valid. Battery chemistries of any kind are flammable.
Yes very true, but if this was LiFePO4 and the drill's friction caused combustion of the electrolyte, it would be a nice slow burn. Going by this reaction, we can see it has cobalt, oxygen was released and reacted rapidly.
Really wild to see it have a self-propagating runaway like lithium polymer. I was not expecting that. I do not think this is a true solid state cell. Even though the data sheet claims that it is.
This presents a very serious issue when used inside any structure. What happens when the device is exposed to an external fire. Perhaps one that would be manageable without the batteries.
Great video. I'd like to see another cell tested with puncture only like the Chin engineer video. Also similar tests with a LiFePO4. Sure it'll get a bunch of views also! Thanks again!
Will, As a Fire Marshal we are seeing more and more training videos for all the various rechargeable batteries and charging systems. It is only a matter of time before there is a huge, HUGE fire in a storage or charging facility of battery systems. With electric vehicles and more and more solar systems in use than ever before, Fire Departments will be having their hands full!!!
It's already happening with people stealing parts here and there and trying to cobble together an e-bike or scooter in their home only to have it set fire to the whole place and leave many people homeless in the process if they are lucky enough to get out alive.
I have a great Idea to isolate and possible prevent house battery fires.. Hempcrete small room for them.. I'm positive that it would keep a battery fire from spreading.. electrical outside of that couldn't really change more than regular. But hempcrete at 1' think has r30 ish insulation factor so keeping them at a optimal temp would also be easier..
If you noticed, on their puncture test, they left the puncture probe in the battery - when you drilled, you pulled the bit out and allowed oxygen in - it would have been interesting to see what result they would have gotten if they had pulled their probe out
Thanks for taking this to the level they showed fir safety. I am so tired of all the largely inflated safety claims across all industries right now I am glad for actual proof.
Holy ****! I can't believe you actually tried to puncture that on your desk 😂 I would have at least taken it out in the yard regardless of what someone says.
I subscribed to your channel a few months back in preparation for a Motorhome solar build but I just love to watch your videos and to see someone enjoy what they do as much as you...It cheers me up to hear your passion and excitement...Well done Will especially after suffering so much personal hardship...
This was the most entertaining video you've produced. Really appreciate the time you take to tear down these units to show us what's really going on inside.
In their example the puncturing device was left in place not allowing the electrolyte to be exposed to air. In your example, you created a hole with the drill and the hole was open to air. So it's only kind of safe... only if you use a screwdriver or something like that to puncture it and then leave it in place. ..
When you were running away laughing, it brought me instantly way back to my childhood and my brothers and I running and laughing uncontrollably. Thanks for that.. R.I.P. Billy and Johnny
If you're going to test to failure (which was awesome by the way) you might want to make a little firepit outside with some cheap blocks from Home Depot or Lowe's so you don't end up staining your sidewalk or driveway.
Bless your heart Will, Good Lord brother, that was exciting to say the least. I'm so glad you took it outside for the final puncturing, that would have been a real bummer for it to catch on fire on your workbench and inside your home. Been watching you for a few years now, and because you're so down to earth and have such a straightforward way of explaining things (( you make it fun just listening to you )) I actually built my own solar generator and achieved complete success in doing so. So glad to see you doing well and enjoying life, I'm sure everyone on your channel (( like myself )) thoroughly enjoy all that you do for us. You have provided so much valuable information Will , and your time and effort is priceless to all of us out here just trying to achieve some level of independence and backup power systems. No one wants to be caught in the dark that's for sure, and you have definitely provided so much light to our lives. Stay blessed and keep yourself safe, the world is going sideways it seems at times, so please take nothing for granted as you're out and about. Danny in Texas
Wow you are honest and true to life out there protecting the people. You are one of the few I trust. I started my solar system by watching your videos glad you put them together little late for me. Keep on keeping on
Hey Will, As a retired Haz-Mat safety specialist, I will let you slide on the on the rubber "Crocs", but may I suggest adding some Fire Resistant Nomex Socks to your clothing attire. I am not saying as an everyday thing but for situations like this, Safety is #1. Actually, on second thought, It would be hilarious to see you in full bunker gear while performing tests like this. You can purchase some nice used lightweight bunker gear on eBay that would go great with your Crocs & Nomex socks
In the demo that the manufacturer sent you, they did not remove the item that punctured it. It was a plug then. your puncture caused the gas to emit after the drill bit heated up with speed, that’s when the real fire started. That was fun! Thanks for showing us the crap we need to stay away from.
I actually commented on another CZcams channel about someone touting solid state batteries, but they didn’t mention it was lithium ion batteries with a solid state system. I didn’t understand what they meant by solid state batteries. So I looked up the brand they were saying as the next best thing and found out it is just another lithium ion batteries type. When I called them out on it. They either don’t read all their comments or they just ignored my comment. I specifically mentioned they could be a more fire hazard. Thanks for exposing the risk. I watch a lot of your videos. To help me with my solar designs for my new house and our off grid Rv
Thanks for sharing, but it probably wasn't too smart standing over that pouch with a drill with zero safety gear or protection, especially doing it inside on your wood bench! You had no idea what was in that thing, but you knew it held a decent amount of energy... You're smarter than this Will!
I had my safety glasses on haha 😂But yeah, will be safer next time for sure. I really thought it would be fine after seeing the video they sent me. That was stupid of me 😂
Good video Will. Chinn's was right it's a semi-solid state till it gets damaged then its semi-volatile. Looked like microwave popcorn pouch I would not what to have those in an unsecured-protected location let alone the hazards to off gassing. Thanks for the video looks like fun Stay Safe & Good Luck
Also remember this is relatively early days for SS. Early li-ion weren't all that great either. I remember my first Leaf which could allegedly charge at 50kW but only ever got to 36kW and then only for a very short time in the middle of the battery. Contrast that to my model S and that thing could eat 100kW easily anywhere between around 10% and around 80%. That was in 2017 and plenty of improvements have been made since. If SS can improve at that rate its going to be brilliant in about 5 years time.
And yet it doesnt matter if its 100kW, 200kW, 300kW or even 1MW. All it matters is that in the batterypack each cell should get below 1C of charge. For an example, if your model S eats during charging 300kW but you have enough battery cells in the batterypack, just divide those 300kW with cell amount and you will find out how many watts each cell is getting during charging. Now, you each of your cells is getting 4W, then your amperage to each cell will be 1A. 1A is well below hazard limit. With largest batterypacks in cars, there are even 0.5A of current on each cell during charging, that is already well below even normal charge, its safe, its even benefitial for the cell to be charged at lower currents. In short, it does not matter how many watts your car is taking from the grid during charging. What matters is that each cell during charging gets below 1C of charging current at any time for safety and longetivity of the battery during its lifespan. Its not those 300kW that kills your battery and creates fire, its the one cell that overheats and starts burning, igniting all other cells within its reach creating runaway cycle. At that point your charger is already disconnected from the car and not supplying all those 300kW because all the safety and sensing circuits in the chargers and in the car itself.
@@audigex My big take away from this is that even at this early stage its holding close on twice the capacity by volume. The 1/3c rate for what appears to be non cooled cells in an enclosed box suggests they could go quite a bit higher in a liquid cooled application such as a car already and if its twice the size it only needs to charge at half the c rate. Lets say a 100kWh li-ion takes 2c reliably - then the equivalent in this would be a 200kWh taking 1c. Charge per minute would stay the same so 10-80% would look poor but it would only need to go from 20-55% to hold the same amount anyway. Depending on how they behave at the top and bottom of their charging I could see these even being quicker to take on the equivalent amount of energy as a 5%-100% li-ion through sheer capacity.
Maybe it was the heat produced by your drill 's friction that triggered it. If it was a pure mechanical impact hole (like they show on the video) maybe it wouldn't catch fire.
Fair point but SSBs are advertised as safe and having no risk of catching fire even if put in fire it shouldn't combust. Can you imagine a car crash, battery rips open and it's exposed to sparks or heat. It's as bad as gasoline if not worse.
It was severely outgassing even with the screwdriver puncture and the fumes were, at the very least, noxious. Whatever chemistry is involved in those packs is clearly highly reactive - I don't think friction set it off as much as multiple layers getting involved. Puncture accidents are almost never as clean as the one in Chin's video. I think this was an accurate indication of the potential danger.
🇨🇦 THANK YOU FOR THE INFO I DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE TILL I WATCHED THIS VIDEO I HAVE PASSED THE INFO ON SO OTHER PPL WILL ALSO UNDERSTAND THE SAFTY AS WELL AGAIN THANK YOU
I wonder what atmosphere was in the enclosure, you could have a protective atmosphere with no oxygen. There are lithium batteries where the cathode can release O2 when it breaks down, even with trow the combustion rate and time until it stare will depend on if atmospheric oxygen is present or not.
I had a car jump starter from ebay that was already buckled from using it to start a small engine around 5 times. A BP 15 year old 40W panel and a Stecca regulator. Left it on trickle charge in my toilet to use it as a buffer for night flashlight use. It went thru a meltdown and filled the whole house with white smoke and took 2 weeks of airing to clear the stench!
Ooh My god ! 😲That was devastating and very dangerously awesome ! ⚠️Happy you was aware of its potential and punctured it for us preppers to see outside away from every thing . The explosion was way over the ordinary surprise expected of the difference in NMC , Pol and safer Lipofe4 cells . Stay safe😉 and May The Solar Be With you .🤗
Whoa! This is the ultimate IIHS crash test for lithium ion batteries! We really should have standardized safety ratings for these inverters! Was hoping to see a similar trauma on the phosphate battery cell for comparison.
Will you are having too much fun :-) Good for you, it is important to like what you do for a living! I am researching batteries to use in my 48 V club car golf cart this time instead of a house system. It’s amazing how quickly things change just over the last couple years in prices and lithium batteries in general
So nice of you to burn that in your driveway so I do not have them burning aboard my boat while I am 100 miles from land. Anytime one of your product tests results in fire, you are saving people.
I believe it is agreed that the pouch you removed from that battery is not safe to be punctured by a metallic object. The reaction was rapid. That was very lithium polymer pouch cell like. You almost have to wonder if these are actually just lithium polymer pouch cells and they are trying to just tag them with "solid state" to try to make a mint off it. Honestly, the first sign of trouble was a DOA unit. The average consumer would purchase this battery pack, take it out of the box, attempt to charge it, and then nothing because it is a dead unit. The product as a whole is a full fail.
The drill bit temp ignite it from inside at very high temp. In normal condition will not ignite nor smell as you just demonstrated with the punch hole in the first place. I remember the drill bit rotation will even burn the metal that can get red hot.
Was going to stream a movie for some entertainment this evening, but thought I'd check out some of your latest videos first as it has been a week or so. Well there is nothing I can stream that will be more entertaining yet informative than what I just witnessed lol! Would love to be your neighbour! Keep rocking the videos Will.
As soon as you measured that cell and it said 4.1 volts I knew it wasn't LiFeP04. I'm glad it didn't explode indoors. They marked the cell as 3.65 which is so misleading.
Great video Will.. I asked in one of the last videos about UPS (Cyber Power and APC) battery swaps from lead acid to Lifepo4. The reason I asked is Chins and Ampere Time had it in the listings title in Amazon but now looks like they removed UPS from the titles. Still might be worth the video just to inform people.
It would be interesting to see the actual cells of a Chins and Ampere Time LiFePO4 battery because CanBat has a direct 12V 9AH LiFePO4 replacement for the standard sized 12V 7-9AH SLA batteries. They stand behind them with a 10 year warranty. I am using them in a lot of UPS units having replaced the 12V 9AH SLA with CanBat 12V 9AH LiFePO4 batteries. With that change, I now get just over twice the run time on any UPS I have installed them in.
@@sonictech1000 Not First Last but I also have switched to LiFePO4 batteries in the UPS Both ACC and Cyber power units. They cost more than the SLAs but seem to run longer and are the same size outside. Open one up for the surprise though. More dead space than you would think. Mine have been in for over a year now and no problems. One of the old SLAs was hard to get out as it had ruptured the case.
I am so glad you did this video because the narrative being pushed is that solid state batteries are the next technology and industry experts say we are still about ten years away from a reliable and affordable solid state battery for "real world" use.
...'' Includes paid promotion!'' I... hit the floor rolling when I saw the Crocs... reminding me of the old adage... '' Make sure your drawers are clean... you never know when your gonna wind up in the ER'' ....Will Rocks!
lol geez, I was freaking out when you attempted it inside on your workbench. I'm glad it didn't catch on fire until you took it outside first. lol even if their claims that it was safe bore out, that was crazy.
Very funny! 🤣 As soon as you took a drill bit to it, I thought , "So much for a puncture test! Now we're going to do a can-I-get-it-to-blow-up-for-CZcams friction test!" Nice to see a preliminary look at solid state. It will be interesting to see the refinements to follow.
If this battery was mounted in for instance my boat's lazarette (which is the storage space under the main cabin's coach seats) and someone put a fitting into that space with a drill ... such an adventure could very well happen. Not sure though about what would happen with Lithium Iron Phosphate Prismatic cells. Such batteries are installed in plastic boxes though, which adds some distance ...
Will, your drilling added friction heat to the test. What would a true puncture produce? What is the ignition temperature of the chemistry. These are things to consider.
For future reference Will, don't do puncture tests for lithium cells on a wood workbench. The Chinese have been known to exaggerate on occasion about their products.
Agreed. I made a mistake. I did read data sheet and watched the video and figured it would be fine, but absolutely not worth the risk. Won't make that mistake again
@@WillProwse I suspect that Chins was just using the information supplied by the manufacturer. It's so easy to be "mislead" by vendors in China. I'm sure they would tell you it's because you used a drill and not a screwdriver! Anyway, as you noted, there is a lot of energy stored in a small space, I will stick to LFP. Not 100% safe, but certainly one of the best available, and great cycle life. Thanks for the video, BTW.😀
Another interesting test would be to send a .22 through the complete unit. An accident very possible out in the desert. Would the bullet pick up some heat on the way through the core?
@@jamesscott1932 That's an interesting idea. The chances of me accidentally drilling into a battery is slim, but I've been camped on BLM land with people shooting just a few hundred yards away. The chance of a stray round hitting my batteries is still slim, but it's a possibility.
I think you need a metal dump bucket with a rope tied to it, sitting next to your workbench. If something starts to cook off slide it into the bucket and use the rope to drag it outside. Thanks for the awesome demo...may have saved a life.
Brilliant, it lit on fire. I like CHINS batteries, but I would go for the LiFePO4 type anytime. Thanks Will, you are amazing & entertaining. Rog from Wales 👍🏴👊
I wouldn't call that safe but drilling is a lot different than a simple puncture. Drilling produces a lot of heat. Puncturing does not. I also think I would power wash everything that smoke touched so no animals lick it or get it on their paws and lick them, etc. Just to be safe.
Thanks for testing the battery. Someone could have bought one and used it for off the grid camping and ended up getting hurt or worse. How ate they able to sell a product that is truly not what they're advertising
bro.. .i fear for your safety a little bit, but.. what happens if one of those units is shot at range with a rifle?... thank you for your input.... .you make the world a brighter and better place by being in it... hope you never lose your youthful spirit.
Am I the only one who was "No-ooooo....... don't test it inside your garage with the screwdriver!!"? Would have been a complete different video if it catched fire there ;-). Thanks for showing us though, LiFePO4 is the solution, for now.
Data sheet for this cell: diysolarforum.com/resources/ganfeng-solid-state-lithium-ion-42ah-pouch-cell-battery-data-sheet.297/
This would not happen with a LiFePO4! I would consider this chemistry as dangerous as lithium polymer, and we do not use any cobalt based chemistry on this channel for this very reason.
0:00 Intro
3:03 Tear Down
6:37 Puncture Test
7:02 FIRE
8:14 Conclusion
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Does off-grid solar confuse you? Check out my DIY friendly website for solar system packages and product recommendations, and so much more! www.mobile-solarpower.com
Join our DIY solar community! #1 largest solar forum on the internet for beginners and professionals alike: www.diysolarforum.com
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amzn.to/2Aj4dX4
If DIY is not for you, but you love solar and need an offgrid system, check out Tesla Solar. Low prices and great warranty, and they can take your entire house offgrid with their new Powerwalls: ts.la/william57509
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Complete 48V System Blueprint: www.mobile-solarpower.com/48v-complete-system-blueprint.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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-Ecoflow Delta Official Site: My favorite plug-n-play solar generator:
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-AmpereTime: Cheapest 12V batteries around:
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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FTC Disclosure Statement and Disclaimers:
Every video includes some form of paid promotion or sponsorship. Some links on this youtube channel may be affiliate links. We may get paid if you buy something or take an action after clicking one of these. My videos are for educational purpose only. Information is subject to change/update at anytime. Electricity is DANGEROUS and can kill. Be smart and use common sense :)
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Will, I have an interesting theory that you might have to cross-check.
I am of the view that it was the drilling movement that initiated the fire and not the mere exposure of the lithium-ion. What was done in the video sent to you is different from your experience.
Great to see your primal joy in setting something on fire, ^oo^
their screwdriver also made it so very little oxygen was reaching the interior of the cell. the heat/chips from the drill may not have helped, but you should be able to drill through it many times with no issue. SS still has a long way to go. Toyota supposedly has something "amazing" in the works, supposedly. Thanks for a great vid!
I make electric unicycle videos and we worry about this all the time, check my channel.
3:05 "If I get cancer, it's because of this" LMAO!
And this is why I appreciate your tear-downs. Thanks for your professional attitude Will.
i'm with max headroom on this, any "review" that doesn't have a tear down isn't a review.
I agree. I feel a little guilty that this one was fun!
Initially I thought the thumbnail was Clickbait. Then, having watched the video Will has proven out that claims by manufacturers must be tested. They are just puffing until they are tested and proven right or wrong.
ditto
Love the genuine laughs. I would be doing the same!!
This by far was the most exciting Will Prowse video I have seen! This is why I only use Lithium Phosphate You just don't run into those kinds of explosive issues!
Though then you get low amp draw, low power.
@@leonordin3052 low amp power draw? that' not accurate. c rating is lower compared to li-ion. but that doesn't mean it's low. its just lower in conparison.
LFP'S also suffer thermal runaway. They may be safer, but they are not safe
I came for the fire Will🔥🔥🔥
Glad you posted this. Can't say your test was the same as the Chins test since the drill created far more friction than a sharp object being shoved directly through a cel with no rotational force. But your point is still very valid. Battery chemistries of any kind are flammable.
Yes very true, but if this was LiFePO4 and the drill's friction caused combustion of the electrolyte, it would be a nice slow burn. Going by this reaction, we can see it has cobalt, oxygen was released and reacted rapidly.
Really wild to see it have a self-propagating runaway like lithium polymer. I was not expecting that. I do not think this is a true solid state cell. Even though the data sheet claims that it is.
This presents a very serious issue when used inside any structure. What happens when the device is exposed to an external fire. Perhaps one that would be manageable without the batteries.
Great video. I'd like to see another cell tested with puncture only like the Chin engineer video. Also similar tests with a LiFePO4. Sure it'll get a bunch of views also!
Thanks again!
@@WillProwse Maybe this is why they were saying it was "semi solid state" in their emails.
Thanks for the puncture test!!!! I would never have done it. Your channel is priceless for DIY people like me.👍
Will, As a Fire Marshal we are seeing more and more training videos for all the various rechargeable batteries and charging systems. It is only a matter of time before there is a huge, HUGE fire in a storage or charging facility of battery systems. With electric vehicles and more and more solar systems in use than ever before, Fire Departments will be having their hands full!!!
It's already happening with people stealing parts here and there and trying to cobble together an e-bike or scooter in their home only to have it set fire to the whole place and leave many people homeless in the process if they are lucky enough to get out alive.
I have a great Idea to isolate and possible prevent house battery fires.. Hempcrete small room for them.. I'm positive that it would keep a battery fire from spreading.. electrical outside of that couldn't really change more than regular. But hempcrete at 1' think has r30 ish insulation factor so keeping them at a optimal temp would also be easier..
The Felicity Ace caught fire and sank because of the batteries in the cars.
@@jamesray9009 I was thinking a small concrete room w/ whatever fire extinguisher works best. Would water exacerbate a battery fire, or not?
Fascinating, I hadn't relaized these batteries presented such a threat, and w/ numbers increasing over time, yikes!😱
If you noticed, on their puncture test, they left the puncture probe in the battery - when you drilled, you pulled the bit out and allowed oxygen in - it would have been interesting to see what result they would have gotten if they had pulled their probe out
Thanks for taking this to the level they showed fir safety. I am so tired of all the largely inflated safety claims across all industries right now I am glad for actual proof.
Holy ****! I can't believe you actually tried to puncture that on your desk 😂 I would have at least taken it out in the yard regardless of what someone says.
Yeah that was stupid haha oops
@@WillProwse You were so lucky it didn't blast into flames the first time you punctured it...
@@nielsdaemen super duper scary
I subscribed to your channel a few months back in preparation for a Motorhome solar build but I just love to watch your videos and to see someone enjoy what they do as much as you...It cheers me up to hear your passion and excitement...Well done Will especially after suffering so much personal hardship...
This was the most entertaining video you've produced. Really appreciate the time you take to tear down these units to show us what's really going on inside.
In their example the puncturing device was left in place not allowing the electrolyte to be exposed to air. In your example, you created a hole with the drill and the hole was open to air. So it's only kind of safe... only if you use a screwdriver or something like that to puncture it and then leave it in place. ..
plus, heat was generated by the drill
It was the heat from the drill. He did not do a puncture using a spike. Why did he not replicate the same test? What an idiot.
When you were running away laughing, it brought me instantly way back to my childhood and my brothers and I running and laughing uncontrollably. Thanks for that.. R.I.P. Billy and Johnny
If you're going to test to failure (which was awesome by the way) you might want to make a little firepit outside with some cheap blocks from Home Depot or Lowe's so you don't end up staining your sidewalk or driveway.
Nice Work ! Don't hold back Will .People need to see this stuff .
Bless your heart Will, Good Lord brother, that was exciting to say the least. I'm so glad you took it outside for the final puncturing, that would have been a real bummer for it to catch on fire on your workbench and inside your home.
Been watching you for a few years now, and because you're so down to earth and have such a straightforward way of explaining things (( you make it fun just listening to you )) I actually built my own solar generator and achieved complete success in doing so.
So glad to see you doing well and enjoying life, I'm sure everyone on your channel (( like myself )) thoroughly enjoy all that you do for us. You have provided so much valuable information Will , and your time and effort is priceless to all of us out here just trying to achieve some level of independence and backup power systems. No one wants to be caught in the dark that's for sure, and you have definitely provided so much light to our lives.
Stay blessed and keep yourself safe, the world is going sideways it seems at times, so please take nothing for granted as you're out and about. Danny in Texas
I'm still chuckling several hours after watching this video
Warm Regards from Reno, Nevada
Wow you are honest and true to life out there protecting the people. You are one of the few I trust. I started my solar system by watching your videos glad you put them together little late for me. Keep on keeping on
Thankfully, you didn't get burned. I think the cells were quite what the manufacturer stated. Good review. Thanks!
Imagine shooting the whole package 🤩💥🔥
That was freaking nuts! TY for the educational and entertaining content!
Hey Will, As a retired Haz-Mat safety specialist, I will let you slide on the on the rubber "Crocs", but may I suggest adding some Fire Resistant Nomex Socks to your clothing attire. I am not saying as an everyday thing but for situations like this, Safety is #1.
Actually, on second thought, It would be hilarious to see you in full bunker gear while performing tests like this. You can purchase some nice used lightweight bunker gear on eBay that would go great with your Crocs & Nomex socks
More fun in short sleeves, shorts and crocs. Who needs a yucky respirator? Breathe through your nose!❤
Hearing you laugh and run away from that fire had me laughing out loud. That was crazy to see the volatility of that pouch.
I’m glad I have regular pouch cells in my Lossigy batteries. Thank you for the video as always.
In the demo that the manufacturer sent you, they did not remove the item that punctured it. It was a plug then. your puncture caused the gas to emit after the drill bit heated up with speed, that’s when the real fire started. That was fun! Thanks for showing us the crap we need to stay away from.
You had way too much fun making this video. Love it.
I actually commented on another CZcams channel about someone touting solid state batteries, but they didn’t mention it was lithium ion batteries with a solid state system. I didn’t understand what they meant by solid state batteries. So I looked up the brand they were saying as the next best thing and found out it is just another lithium ion batteries type. When I called them out on it. They either don’t read all their comments or they just ignored my comment. I specifically mentioned they could be a more fire hazard. Thanks for exposing the risk. I watch a lot of your videos. To help me with my solar designs for my new house and our off grid Rv
Other person called this solid state batteries. Yoshino B4000 power station. If I remember correctly they never mentioned lithium batteries
Thanks for sharing, but it probably wasn't too smart standing over that pouch with a drill with zero safety gear or protection, especially doing it inside on your wood bench! You had no idea what was in that thing, but you knew it held a decent amount of energy... You're smarter than this Will!
I had my safety glasses on haha 😂But yeah, will be safer next time for sure. I really thought it would be fine after seeing the video they sent me. That was stupid of me 😂
@@WillProwse never trust china
@@WillProwse the selfless sacrifice science makes for humanity!
That’s right. Some sort of proper chimney for capturing escaping gasses and possibly a smothering system to shut down a reaction like the one at hand.
Good video Will. Chinn's was right it's a semi-solid state till it gets damaged then its semi-volatile. Looked like microwave popcorn pouch I would not what to have those in an unsecured-protected location let alone the hazards to off gassing.
Thanks for the video looks like fun
Stay Safe & Good Luck
Also remember this is relatively early days for SS. Early li-ion weren't all that great either.
I remember my first Leaf which could allegedly charge at 50kW but only ever got to 36kW and then only for a very short time in the middle of the battery. Contrast that to my model S and that thing could eat 100kW easily anywhere between around 10% and around 80%. That was in 2017 and plenty of improvements have been made since.
If SS can improve at that rate its going to be brilliant in about 5 years time.
Yeah on your car analogy, my Model 3 can charge at over 200kW, and there are some EVs pushing above 300 kW now even!
And yet it doesnt matter if its 100kW, 200kW, 300kW or even 1MW. All it matters is that in the batterypack each cell should get below 1C of charge. For an example, if your model S eats during charging 300kW but you have enough battery cells in the batterypack, just divide those 300kW with cell amount and you will find out how many watts each cell is getting during charging. Now, you each of your cells is getting 4W, then your amperage to each cell will be 1A. 1A is well below hazard limit. With largest batterypacks in cars, there are even 0.5A of current on each cell during charging, that is already well below even normal charge, its safe, its even benefitial for the cell to be charged at lower currents.
In short, it does not matter how many watts your car is taking from the grid during charging. What matters is that each cell during charging gets below 1C of charging current at any time for safety and longetivity of the battery during its lifespan.
Its not those 300kW that kills your battery and creates fire, its the one cell that overheats and starts burning, igniting all other cells within its reach creating runaway cycle. At that point your charger is already disconnected from the car and not supplying all those 300kW because all the safety and sensing circuits in the chargers and in the car itself.
@@audigex My big take away from this is that even at this early stage its holding close on twice the capacity by volume. The 1/3c rate for what appears to be non cooled cells in an enclosed box suggests they could go quite a bit higher in a liquid cooled application such as a car already and if its twice the size it only needs to charge at half the c rate.
Lets say a 100kWh li-ion takes 2c reliably - then the equivalent in this would be a 200kWh taking 1c. Charge per minute would stay the same so 10-80% would look poor but it would only need to go from 20-55% to hold the same amount anyway.
Depending on how they behave at the top and bottom of their charging I could see these even being quicker to take on the equivalent amount of energy as a 5%-100% li-ion through sheer capacity.
What could possibly go wrong... Will, your neighbors must love you! Interesting video.
Indeed, important to understand the hidden potential energy of these storage devices…
Maybe it was the heat produced by your drill 's friction that triggered it. If it was a pure mechanical impact hole (like they show on the video) maybe it wouldn't catch fire.
Yes very true
Fair point but SSBs are advertised as safe and having no risk of catching fire even if put in fire it shouldn't combust. Can you imagine a car crash, battery rips open and it's exposed to sparks or heat. It's as bad as gasoline if not worse.
Will, you could always puncture test a second cell.
It was severely outgassing even with the screwdriver puncture and the fumes were, at the very least, noxious. Whatever chemistry is involved in those packs is clearly highly reactive - I don't think friction set it off as much as multiple layers getting involved. Puncture accidents are almost never as clean as the one in Chin's video. I think this was an accurate indication of the potential danger.
@@robertm2663 You might want to try that out in the desert ...
🇨🇦 THANK YOU FOR THE INFO I DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE TILL I WATCHED THIS VIDEO
I HAVE PASSED THE INFO ON SO OTHER PPL WILL ALSO UNDERSTAND THE SAFTY AS WELL
AGAIN THANK YOU
Thanks! Always love learning on your channel.
yup. definitely sticking to my lithium titanate bank! i hope not all solid state batteries will be this way.
In the CHINS video, they puncture it while it is inside an enclosure, indicating that they know it's not a safe thing to do.
I wonder what atmosphere was in the enclosure, you could have a protective atmosphere with no oxygen. There are lithium batteries where the cathode can release O2 when it breaks down, even with trow the combustion rate and time until it stare will depend on if atmospheric oxygen is present or not.
Thank you. This why I gratefully appreciate what you do for all of us.
I had a car jump starter from ebay that was already buckled from using it to start a small engine around 5 times. A BP 15 year old 40W panel and a Stecca regulator.
Left it on trickle charge in my toilet to use it as a buffer for night flashlight use. It went thru a meltdown and filled the whole house with white smoke and took 2 weeks of airing to clear the stench!
I've got a classic CHINS LiFePo 100ah battery arriving tomorrow thanks to your tear down on the battery. Hopefully buy three more soon. 😎
Ooh My god ! 😲That was devastating and very dangerously awesome ! ⚠️Happy you was aware of its potential and punctured it for us preppers to see outside away from every thing . The explosion was way over the ordinary surprise expected of the difference in NMC , Pol and safer Lipofe4 cells . Stay safe😉 and May The Solar Be With you .🤗
This is why I love this channel.
Oh Whow - I thought Chins was a good company - now - I don't; thinks so as much - thanks man - you are the best battery solar guy on CZcams
Wow! Glad I saw this video. Good Job Will. No telling how many lives you might have saved.
Wow.
Most exciting battery test ever!
dramatic. thanks, Will, for testing this stuff for us, keeping us safe.
"Krikey, she's a beauty!!". Will Prowse, you are truly the American "Steve Irwin" of solar. Keep up the good work.
The smile on your face when you said let's take it outside cracked me up. Crazy to see the reaction. WTH!
Whoa!
This is the ultimate IIHS crash test for lithium ion batteries!
We really should have standardized safety ratings for these inverters!
Was hoping to see a similar trauma on the phosphate battery cell for comparison.
Thank goodness it didn't let go on your bench! Close call!
Will you are having too much fun :-)
Good for you, it is important to like what you do for a living!
I am researching batteries to use in my 48 V club car golf cart this time instead of a house system. It’s amazing how quickly things change just over the last couple years in prices and lithium batteries in general
So nice of you to burn that in your driveway so I do not have them burning aboard my boat while I am 100 miles from land. Anytime one of your product tests results in fire, you are saving people.
Will, that was absolutely AWESOME!!!!! You are one brave smart guy. Thanks.
Thank you for sharing your real life test.
Love the safety Crocs. 😋
I can now check that off my bucket list.
I believe it is agreed that the pouch you removed from that battery is not safe to be punctured by a metallic object. The reaction was rapid. That was very lithium polymer pouch cell like. You almost have to wonder if these are actually just lithium polymer pouch cells and they are trying to just tag them with "solid state" to try to make a mint off it. Honestly, the first sign of trouble was a DOA unit. The average consumer would purchase this battery pack, take it out of the box, attempt to charge it, and then nothing because it is a dead unit. The product as a whole is a full fail.
The drill bit temp ignite it from inside at very high temp. In normal condition will not ignite nor smell as you just demonstrated with the punch hole in the first place. I remember the drill bit rotation will even burn the metal that can get red hot.
This was one of the more fun videos you've done in a while!
Great balls of fire! That was not expected. I guess there’s not going to be a run on the product after Will’s review this time huh?
Glad you finally put safety glasses on!
Was going to stream a movie for some entertainment this evening, but thought I'd check out some of your latest videos first as it has been a week or so. Well there is nothing I can stream that will be more entertaining yet informative than what I just witnessed lol! Would love to be your neighbour! Keep rocking the videos Will.
Great to see your safety crocs on for the drill test
As soon as you measured that cell and it said 4.1 volts I knew it wasn't LiFeP04. I'm glad it didn't explode indoors. They marked the cell as 3.65 which is so misleading.
That fire was nuts!
You never know until you have one in your hands. Priceless. Great cancer joke too. Keep up the wonderful work, Will. Absolute great teardown. Peace
Tear down and test it always are best!!
Great video Will.. I asked in one of the last videos about UPS (Cyber Power and APC) battery swaps from lead acid to Lifepo4. The reason I asked is Chins and Ampere Time had it in the listings title in Amazon but now looks like they removed UPS from the titles. Still might be worth the video just to inform people.
It would be interesting to see the actual cells of a Chins and Ampere Time LiFePO4 battery because CanBat has a direct 12V 9AH LiFePO4 replacement for the standard sized 12V 7-9AH SLA batteries. They stand behind them with a 10 year warranty.
I am using them in a lot of UPS units having replaced the 12V 9AH SLA with CanBat 12V 9AH LiFePO4 batteries. With that change, I now get just over twice the run time on any UPS I have installed them in.
@@FirstLastOne How long have you been using these and I what UPS's? Good replacement batteries have gotten hard to find.
@@sonictech1000 Not First Last but I also have switched to LiFePO4 batteries in the UPS Both ACC and Cyber power units. They cost more than the SLAs but seem to run longer and are the same size outside. Open one up for the surprise though. More dead space than you would think. Mine have been in for over a year now and no problems. One of the old SLAs was hard to get out as it had ruptured the case.
I am so glad you did this video because the narrative being pushed is that solid state batteries are the next technology and industry experts say we are still about ten years away from a reliable and affordable solid state battery for "real world" use.
Yoshino B2000 is out and with good reviews.
What an informative video. Been hearing of fires with these batteries. Good to see Will address this.
Great video. It's people like you that are saving lives!!
This review was fire 🔥
...'' Includes paid promotion!'' I... hit the floor rolling when I saw the Crocs... reminding me of the old adage... '' Make sure your drawers are clean... you never know when your gonna wind up in the ER'' ....Will Rocks!
lol geez, I was freaking out when you attempted it inside on your workbench. I'm glad it didn't catch on fire until you took it outside first. lol even if their claims that it was safe bore out, that was crazy.
Very funny! 🤣 As soon as you took a drill bit to it, I thought , "So much for a puncture test! Now we're going to do a can-I-get-it-to-blow-up-for-CZcams friction test!" Nice to see a preliminary look at solid state. It will be interesting to see the refinements to follow.
If this battery was mounted in for instance my boat's lazarette (which is the storage space under the main cabin's coach seats) and someone put a fitting into that space with a drill ... such an adventure could very well happen. Not sure though about what would happen with Lithium Iron Phosphate Prismatic cells. Such batteries are installed in plastic boxes though, which adds some distance ...
Will, your drilling added friction heat to the test. What would a true puncture produce? What is the ignition temperature of the chemistry. These are things to consider.
What I think is that you should keep fire extinguisher by the side. There’s risk of fire. Running isn’t a good idea too. Stay safe. Nice video.
For future reference Will, don't do puncture tests for lithium cells on a wood workbench. The Chinese have been known to exaggerate on occasion about their products.
Agreed. I made a mistake. I did read data sheet and watched the video and figured it would be fine, but absolutely not worth the risk. Won't make that mistake again
@@WillProwse I suspect that Chins was just using the information supplied by the manufacturer. It's so easy to be "mislead" by vendors in China. I'm sure they would tell you it's because you used a drill and not a screwdriver! Anyway, as you noted, there is a lot of energy stored in a small space, I will stick to LFP. Not 100% safe, but certainly one of the best available, and great cycle life. Thanks for the video, BTW.😀
Another interesting test would be to send a .22 through the complete unit. An accident very possible out in the desert. Would the bullet pick up some heat on the way through the core?
@@jamesscott1932 That's an interesting idea. The chances of me accidentally drilling into a battery is slim, but I've been camped on BLM land with people shooting just a few hundred yards away. The chance of a stray round hitting my batteries is still slim, but it's a possibility.
I think you need a metal dump bucket with a rope tied to it, sitting next to your workbench. If something starts to cook off slide it into the bucket and use the rope to drag it outside.
Thanks for the awesome demo...may have saved a life.
Brilliant, it lit on fire. I like CHINS batteries, but I would go for the LiFePO4 type anytime. Thanks Will, you are amazing & entertaining. Rog from Wales 👍🏴👊
Thank you for your honestly test. That's Nut's!!!
I wouldn't call that safe but drilling is a lot different than a simple puncture. Drilling produces a lot of heat. Puncturing does not. I also think I would power wash everything that smoke touched so no animals lick it or get it on their paws and lick them, etc. Just to be safe.
Safety Crocs on-fleek Will. Nice video 📸
Thanks for testing the battery. Someone could have bought one and used it for off the grid camping and ended up getting hurt or worse. How ate they able to sell a product that is truly not what they're advertising
Man I’m just glad you didn’t really puncture it inside, coulda been bad
Thanks Will for 2 Videos today, was wondering what you have been up to.
Exciting video! Thanks for sharing!
bro.. .i fear for your safety a little bit, but.. what happens if one of those units is shot at range with a rifle?... thank you for your input.... .you make the world a brighter and better place by being in it... hope you never lose your youthful spirit.
That point where the cell rapidly expands makes me think it’s not really solid state.
You should try over charging one and seeing how it fails.
Your videos are simply priceless
That was....... AWESOME!!!
Your neighbors must love you.
Am I the only one who was "No-ooooo....... don't test it inside your garage with the screwdriver!!"? Would have been a complete different video if it catched fire there ;-). Thanks for showing us though, LiFePO4 is the solution, for now.
He did not prove LFP was safer.
LOL! You had way too much fun drilling thru that cell. And I enjoyed watching it too! Thank you!
thanks
COOP
...
Talk about taking one for your viewers, thanks mate.
I'm so glad I've stuck with buying 6 AGM batteries Only cost £1400 But I think they will be a little safer using them in side my home
I sure as hell didn’t expect that!