This Illegal Hack Makes You Ride Downhill Faster Instantly!
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- čas přidán 14. 06. 2024
- Do aerodynamics matter for Downhill mountain biking? Although skinsuits are banned for DH World Cup racing, riding kits have been getting tighter and tighter. To find out if they make a difference, our ex-road cycling pro Isaac Mundy headed to a wind tunnel and the trails to see how different styles of riding kit - even the dreaded controversial full-body skinsuit - affected his speeds and times!
⏱ Timestamps ⏱
0:00 - Intro
0:50 - Some history!
2:02 - Chris Porter's insights
2:39 - Changes to the rules
3:45 - The wind tunnel!
4:48 - Wind tunnel testing
7:18 - Wind tunnel results
10:49 - Taking it to the trails
11:17 - Real-world testing
17:05 - Real-world results
18:05 - Dan Bigham's insights
19:50 - Conclusions
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Would you wear aerodynamic clothing to ride faster? Or do you think it makes mountain biking look bad? Let us know your thoughts on the subject 👇
No. I'm too fat.
For me, I am on the limit when I am on the limit and what stops me going faster is grip, vision, fear, etc. Having some aero suit wouldn't do anything because I'm personally not being held back by anything than skill - in fact it might actually make me slower and have to use the brakes more. Slower rolling sticky DH tires same deal, the friction lets me brake less and let the suspension work. Isaac points some of this out regarding max speed in corners etc for racers, and it applies even moreso to regs like myself.
I thought mountain bike was normal clothes
@@snowman22ismwatch GCN wind tunnel then, a beer belly can help make you bit more aerodynamic
@@mcmarshallcluhan6884max speed in corners true but you could go back to speed a bit faster. And with enough corners that could make quite a difference (in a pro race)
Isaac is a fantastic presenter! Really like his content
He's working on some great stuff at the moment! More to come 👍
If you had told Ollie he could MTB in a skin suit, he would have signed up immediately.
😂
We know he's got a couple in his wardrobe! We'll give him some creative freedom next time... not instruct him on how to dress 😅
@@gmbn hope instruct on bike as I'm worried Ollie want aero bars on the mountain bike
On a long race like the Megavalanche, a skinsuit would mean several minutes for sure
pretty sure youre not allowed to wear a skin suit in dh
@@TE_53349oh yes, uci mandated baggy jeans
Ill take full crash gear on Avalance over a skin suit any day. These guys are hitting 80kph on ice.
Dh race skiers wear lyrca, so do bob sleifh riders. You can put your protection under the suit.
The dh skiers even have an airbag for the races...
Next video - GMBN does Megavalanche in a skin suit?
As an XC rider and one might even say a roadie starting to be obsessed with marginal gains, I gotta say this was maybe the most enjoyable video about downhill I've watched 🤣.
i bet Dr. Ollie would've loved this for a cross-network collab
Really high quality video, love it !
This one was really good - clear and down to the facts. I must admit, my road riding friends laugh at the baggy kit I wear on an enduro or trail ride, turns out they're right! I'm wasting energy and going slower! Nice work Isaac - really informative.
Another one for the roadies! It's very interesting how much difference could be made though... will we see you down the woods in your friends kit anytime soon? 😅
@@gmbn Ha ha! No. 😂
I might think about better fitting top layers, but I just can't bring myself to go full MAMIL on the trails. There are normal people walking around up there. They don't need to see that. 🫣
With all the tech that's going into the bikes - materials, wireless shifting, adaptive suspension, etc - it's kind of silly that DH bans certain clothing because ... some people think it makes you look like a dork?
It's like anything, including F1 racing, some rules are to stop people getting silly.
Texturing kit would definetly be a good hack to go faster, for a local bloke, at local races. But if brands use this technology on kit for the fast guys, at bigger events (world cups, european cups, etc) there will be a bigger gap between the pros and privateers, IF this technology leads to more expensive equipment that isn't affordable for everyone. (imagine "aero" versions of dh bikes, that are 20-25% more expensive to be faster 7-8 races a year).
You need to get Ramsay on to do an episode about gearboxes.
That's a great idea! Good timing too... 😏
Absolutely! Never met anyone as passionate about MTB as Ramsay - the Trailcoach.
Where’s Ollie? GCN’s Ollie is “the man” when in comes to Aero.
We need an episode of Ollie trying to get DH as aero as possible within the UCI limits and beyond the UCI limits.
Ollie was super helpful in putting this one together! We'll see what we can do on that one :)
Fascinating, thank you. Really enjoyed this video. I wonder if the body protection kit could be moulded for aero gains? I’m thinking about the leg and chest aero gear that time triallers wear.
Could be... Maybe something for us to look into! Thanks for watching 👍
Really well executed video! Loved it
Thank you 🙌
Strong video. Was entertained and educated the whole way through. Very interesting.
Glad you liked it!
Thanks for this experiment!
I usually wear tight shirts for biking (Gravel, XC and DH) - I am way to heavy for a cyclist and this way I can at least display my (on the bike useless) muscles as an excuse for being slow uphill ;)
I almost always wear some kind of wider shorts, though. Don't love the squeezed-balls look.
I don't care about times to be fair, but optimize for fun and fitness.
Changes made more difference than I had first thought.
Us too!
Great Video, realy stands out
Interesting, appealing video. I want to go back to Bike Park Wales! There 07/22, so much fun riding through those forrests.
Rescpect to the editor that made this film. Is great to watch! :)
The really easy solution for MTB aerodynamics would just be to get some foam and tape it behind the fork lowers. Those cylinders hitting the air are a huge source of drag and making them non-cylindrical is a huge gain.
Or just go full Tomac and get a drop bar and a disc wheel.
Quite interesting topic and a realistic approach! Plus, I think Isaacs most likeable video so far. Thx
Glad you enjoyed it!
very good info
Thank you!
great interesting video
Cool experiment
With some very interesting results!
Aerodynamics have always played a factor in speed and manoeuvrability, you only have to look at a Spitfire from WWII or modern moto GP bikes to see that. I just loved the fact that Isaac was able to prove that the wind tunnel tests were actually proven in a real riding situation. He really is a good rider but he's right about padding and rider confidence too. I have crashed bikes enough to know that helmets, padding and strong clothing are your friends. Great video though. I like it when the science is tested and proven to be accurate.
They used aerodynamics to design an aeroplane? You're blowing my mind here, man.
I love wheelie-ing around a group of lycra clad colnago riders in board shorts and a t shirt...
I’d like to see a similar video on DH with a rear disc wheel and other aero changes to the bike. Maybe Ollie can come up with some crazy frame ajustments. Closed front triangle? Aerofoil fork?…
Excellent video. Quality data both in laboratory and real world conditions and good analysis with other factors taken into account and clearly presented. Still not going to get a skin suit though!
On the topic of aerodynamics, I'd love to see a test to see how much downforce can affect downhilling. Make some ghetto wings and attach one to the handlebar and one on the back that sticks up suuuuuper high in the rear and see if the downforce generated helps with grip. I know it's not practical but it'd be fun to see the results.
Blake builds a mountain bike spoiler 🧐😅
Great video! Out of curiosity, what where the drag coefficients for the outfits and what were the differences between standing upright and tucked in?
That is very significant! Thanks for the response, and I guess understandable that you can't share the exact numbers @@Isaac-Mundy
surely the only way to make it fair across the board is to allow skinsuits because they can't guarantee that everyone's tight but not too tight 2-piece is equally as draggy.
Every time one of these tests are done I don’t know why they don’t go thru all 3 sets and then go do a last run with the one they think is slower and do a final run with it to eliminate any track memorization or just getting comfortable on the track
Especially considering you dropped 5-6 seconds after each run. If the slow kit had stayed at the first number then you can eliminate trail familiarization and memorization
We're super familiar and have the trail memorised from the get go to be honest! So we don't think that impacted too much
Can’t believe I missed this last week! As an Aerocoach team rider I obviously approve of MTB aero. Not that it makes much difference on me as I’m so slow across any terrain off-road 😂
Found this presentation really interesting and informative, although I wouldn't want to wear the skin suit version...too tight and constrictive. Always good to see Danny MacAskill. He's such a character, coupled w/his amazing skills.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for tuning in 😄
It would be interesting to know what timing mechanism was used in the test.
You should have done one final run at the end back in full baggies as a control.
After 3 back to back runs you're undoubtedly riding the track with more confidence and more knowledge than the first run (even if you know it already). That alone makes a big difference.
Such an cool experiment, interesting to see how much time you actually lost with each suit.
Check out the Swiss riders jerseys at the Worlds…they’ve been using the Rule28-style aero base layers for at least a season!
very interesting subject
Understandable. Did you know 2 of the biggest areo savings are 1. cutting down unnecessary cable length a the front 2. Aero socks!
I like this but, it's hard to ignore that with each run you are getting warmer and used to the day's specific conditions on the trail. IMO only, you should have started with the slippery kit as run 1 then made your way to baggy, those results would have been even more interesting. That said, you still won't find me in lycra anytime, I would not inflict that on anyone LOL
would be interesting to see if the skin suit retains it's aero advantage when worn over protective padding/ armour
i ride in the winter in a parka and goggles.. fenders and racks.. strange what snow and being cold and getting wet will teach you about aero.. TT Bars on cruiser bars does something.. straight bars with bar ends and foam grips actually help lock your elbows in the same position giving 3 positions on vintage 90s bikes..
Bunch of Karens complaining because somebody else did something within the rules and was faster than you. Guess we should outlaw suspension because it makes you faster - "Suspension sucks" eh?
Happy with tight jersey and shorts but not sure about the aero helmet don’t they get hot with less ventilation? If I could have a skin suit that would protect from scrapes and bashes if I hit the ground that would be brilliant. Would be good if I could have a more aero body shape to suit the clothing too lol.
Citizen Science! Good stuff.
🧪🥼
Yep. It's insane how much aero makes a difference. On the road, I average 22 mph on my triathlon bike with aero helmet while I do about 18 mph on my road bike and road helmet. Mountain bikers are adorable how much they'll spend on other upgrades but god no don't do the easiest upgrade and aero anything on their bikes or kit. lol.
I wear cheap basic roadbike clothing for casual mountainbiking, i feel and i go waaaay faster than the other guys
I hope you reply but what is the name of that helmet? I'm building a mountain bike in next two years and only got road helmets but would like a nice aerodynamic helmet for mountain bike if possible
My aim on road helmet is the 2012 Olympics style but still unsure on mountain bike one
Isaac wears the Smith Optics Mainline... we're not too familiar with the exact model of the aero one, it's an old one lying around that GCN no longer use.
Is it possible to make pads more aero?
sure thing, but I guess that would decrease the breathability. All the little holes on modern pads lets the wind gets to your skin (that's what they're supposed to do), but that's just super un-aero.
Quite possibly! What would you recommend?
Could the pattern on the sidewalls on Continental tires have something do with reducing drag on the tires? 🤔
We think on the Conti's its more to do with their sidewall construction process. But considering the amount of Tech in tyres these days that could well be the case
how much travel have you got on the Boxxer?
@@mtbbaz isnt the max 190 on the torque?
@@arismalutan8459 can run up to 200 with the right offset
This one is set to 180mm, but a quick ai spring change and you can set it to up to 200mm
Why do you have a dropper on the dh bike?
Thats crazy actually
I was stunned by the difference the helmet made. I suppose it's mostly due to the visor.
The UCI are opening up the rules, things have progressed in the last 5 years and rumours of one piece suits coming with a sneaky rule change. It's a good thing for the sport. Having raced an enduro in lycra, not 1 photo! But I won whilst ill l, it made sense and everyone who went fast was in tight clothes, just not lycra. Helmet aerodynamics has to be a big thing for the future of DH, even peak shape.
Where is Isaac now? I haven't seen him in a while on gmbn
Wonder what would happen if they installed aerobars, integrated cables,…
yes, look at the specialized gravity team, they put their athletes in a skin suit, approved by uci downhill. if only wearing wear lycra is not against the rule, they'll 100% wear it.
not dismissing the reality of aero advantage, but did you decrease you overall time by adjusting your lines after riding the same course so frequently? This should be acknowledged along with the aero gains IMO. Great video either way!
He mentioned in the video it's a trail he knows well that he specifically rode in a consistent way each time 👍
There's pretty much just the one racing line on this trail! If a line was made accessible by the speed or grip provided by the aero gains, then it should stand up in the timings, but Isaac knows this trail well and doesn't deviate from the fastest line
UCI is also the fashion police, responsible for how cycling should look. I don't think the skinsuit decision had very much to do with how much faster it was. Everyone decided they didn't like how skinsuits looked
anybody realize the dh bike with a dropper and big cassette
Top of a ridge, brutal wind in my face, over 10mi (16k) to my car, very glad to be wearing something more form fitting. Will never understand the trend of baggy clothes
Lycra is faster, but one crash in lycra and it takes years to recover and regain your confidence,...
27 seconds?
That would be going from barely qualifying to podium.
We need an aero full face helmet
Would have been a better test if you also did 3 runs while peddling as well, then you’d get a more realistic result because people always peddle, would give you a better data set.
This was a great vid i used to race dh back when it was fast ie kamakaze fast still have a 56 tooth front chain ring hanging on the wall back then we shaved all over taped up helmet vents and super tight lycra over thin pad less body armour and no peaks on helmets and close to 100kph on dirt drifting clipped in i ran toe clip and two straps with road shoes total comittment ha ha , funny how dh need to look like moto cross riders even tho its slow i wonder if uci would ban you if you turned up with the peak on the back of the helmet as the helmet does have a peak do they stipulate which way it faces .
I wouldn't wear lycra clothing but good fitting clothing is essential and after all it's free performance and boo hoo to what queen 👑 Rachel Atherton likes
Jeans and t shirt, good for me, fastest I've been down hill is 54mph
If aero helmets makes such a difference and u aren't allowed to wear them just use regular full face and a 3d printed cone attached to... idk, a scarf? XD
Hey Issac, did anyone make fun of you or was it a closed test? :)
No-one at the wind tunnel fortunately! But a few people at Bikepark Wales were quite surprised
i don't wear anything baggy lycra is where it's at for me but i am a xc rider not a dh rider.
nah dh rider and got to be baggy, flappy clothing. just feels more comfortable for me
I'm still not 100% convinced, I mean, I'm sure it shaves off some time, but that much?? could you repeat same but in reverse order, wear skin suit first, then DH suit, and last baggy one. because I feel that riding same trail over and over also takes off lot of time with each descend.
Right... so DH Aere bras are coming.
Please do a reverse video on an xc loop.
How slower are you on a xc loop in baggy clothes
More climbs and pedaling
How much effect does it affect there
#gmbn #gmbntech #video
LOL UCI.. "You must use clothes designed for MTB DH" So... as a manufacture/designer what are the rules to what can be designed for MTB DH, anything?
Cool experiment and interesting science but... I have to agree with the UCI this makes DH look severely uncool. I hope it stays banned.
Aero matters
It's crazy to me that a bunch of prissy mtbers were so upset about not looking cool enough that they got the UCI to ban skinsuits. lmao
hi
Maybe I am slow, but the skin suits were banned because of their aerodynamics benefits?
Well, you want to make the sport even more expensive and less accessable for normal people, you are on the right path.
Aero bars for your 15k bike and expensive clothing you have to buy if you want to be competitive are not far away. Why only roadies have that privilege?
If mtb biker started to wear lycra, then you no longer have any right to mock roadies lol
Xc riders do all the time
Mostly XC in my region (and road, CX) so a lot of typical road kits get used on the trails. Plus the hot humid months (May=Sept), anything loose just feels like wet rags flopping around. Starting to see more baggy stuff on the few trails that have actual downhill sections but not uncommon to see XC/road kits with a full face.
I just puked a little.
mountian bikers are slowly recgonizing that us roadies might know a thing or 2
Don't you have to be going over 20kph for any of this to make a difference? I've got no chance 😂
😅😅😅
You'd be even faster if you could keep those aero socks up!
@@Isaac-Mundy my worst fear at a crit!
Back to the early 90’s again. I can’t stand the ever push to have mountain bikers looking like mountain roadies!🙄
GMBN is really good at recycling 20 year old articles from Mountain Bike Action magazine...
i know mtb is already gear focused. Maybe I am a rommantic, I always felt MTB sport is a bit more in the snowboard and skate category. It become less and less like this. But I kinda childish I like the whole attitude part a lot. Not changing how I myself do stuf but is another thing that will be diffrent. Taekwondo is great example how sport become something else over years.
I think this is just begining.
It is sign that become old, I dont like this change
Drink 4 beer make you faster cause you weight more
please fix the angle of your gopro even the pov footage provided by people bumbling down some trails is better than this.
It's funny really. If you want to look "cool" wear whatever you want when you ride. It's seems really foolish in a race to "ban" tight fitting clothe when the race is all about speed. Take every advantage you can.
Trying to XC the downhill. NOPE
Looking like roadies. 🤣
Why put on a skin suit when you're wearing one 🙃nair up
Being fast be at the cost of looking like a….
Great vid for science though
I think Nina Hoffman goes fast because of her short hair. Maybe if she had a long ponytail sticking out of her helmet she wouldn't podium as much as she does, LOL!
Leave aero for the road......