Listening to you speculate about why leagues after Heist were less ambitious left me scratching my head in confusion. You do know that at the end of Heist League, Chris Wilson wrote an open letter to the players apologizing for the bugs and saying Heist League was too ambitious, and from now on leagues would be smaller in scope and more focused? There’s literally nothing to speculate on here.
funny how people thought that it's crafting is obtuse. thankfully tools were created early that essentially guided you to the answer then tweak it from there, and i made some sick items for myself and sold some for profit early on. overall i played this league a lot more than i usually do, i was just having fun
Was playing everyday back in harvest league. And then stop playing after they change harvest. Playing again in necropolis like it was harvest league back then. Love the league since you can craft crazy item 😜
I honestly just wanna see Crucible Scarabs. I play mostly standard and I started in Crucible league. I didn’t understand how much I loved crucible til I lost it 😂😂😂. But having some way, no matter how “rare”, to create new crucible trees would make the game complete for me!
I think scourge league brought something interesting to the game.. granted the loot reward setup was not up to snuff but the idea of gathering power and then switching at will to another version of the map, that somehow felt very appealing to me and added a new level of complexity.. you had to build with the scourge version in mind and the tainted currency idea was great too..
Beyond the ambitious leagues shenanigans, the current league seems to be carried by the scarab rework (and sextants deletion) more than anything, really. One of the complaints some people may have about it, is precisely why it's so great for casual players, or 'surface level' players which is a more apt way of calling them. I mean, think about it, nowadays you can really only focus on one, maybe two mechanics on your maps because the way scarabs work is by combo-ing them, which ends up limiting how diverse your mapping experience is, plus most of them are pretty cheap. Spend a divine orb of scarabs for each slot of your map device and you're set for a few dozens of maps which..For some casual player might just fill up an entire week of playtime ? Depending on the mechanic in question a single div orb can buy you more than a hundred of scarabs even. Btw, based on that, I can't even begin to imagine the backlash if devs didn't introduced the multiple atlas skill trees thing. Because being locked into one farming strategy, and needing a hundred or so unmaking orbs to change probably would've been a pain. But just taking that into consideration, I'm sure most of the players just discovered (or rediscovered, maybe?) what the atlas truly is about, just now, in 2024. Necropolis is more of a dark spot in this, in my opinion. Despite the broken items you can craft with it, it truly is just a painful experience through and through. I've made a few wonky crafts myself, but planting the whole 88 corpses in there, all around a map, while being able to carry only so much in your inventory and the necropolis interface.. Nah. Make that damn graveyard a UI and coffins a single slot stackable object like incubators, you can infinitely stack up in Arimor's arse and, _maybe_ it could start to be appealing to play with. Until then it's just garbo, if it didn't offer such broken items no one would interact with it. Oh, and the corpses UI being so obnoxious in maps, fix that too while you're at it.
After Heist disastrous's launch it was time for GGG to calm down on the scope of 3-4 months long leagues. And even nowadays they still don't have the time to do extensive testing and balancing. So they can decrease the leagues scope even more, if that allows for more polished content and helps avoiding the early league fixing patches, I'm all in. Remember Heist still isn't working in 2024. I don't want non-fonctioning content in the game.
Necropolis feels like the unwanted child from harvest and sextants. It’s been very mid considering how easy it’s been to cook up some absolutely insane pieces of gear. I imagine better balance to scarab drops and the insane t17 experience come next league
Leagues are not being steadily trickled in to the core game and old leagues aren't being retired as fast as I feel they should be. We are farming the same mechanics we've been farming for almost a decade at this point (essence, abyss, torment, breach all came out in 2016 or earlier). The reworks are nice but I think it's a case of too little too late. The game feels very stale at this point in it's lifecyle and I think they want to keep it that way so PoE2 can have the spotlight on launch and beyond.
I just don't like crafting leagues. Because as someone who doesn't have a ton of time to play I feel that unless I play meta, which I pretty much refuse to do, I'll be very left behind.
I stopped doing Heist in 3.20 when my RF jugg, who could tank Eater of Worlds tentacle slams, got one shot by some Heist mob on the way out after a heist. I like this league. I've been able to make 2 really good chests and a really good scepter. I like component based crafting not RNG based.
I would definitely say Wildwood was as ambitious or more than Delirium. As far as retention this league goes, im glad you are still having fun, but the player retention for Necropolis has been one of the worst leagues in years.
All flames and the lantern are just sextent 2.0. Peraonally, i think that aspect is pretty huge. Getting a sneak peek into what you are about to fight and giving you a chance to say na I dont want to fight pocupines because I don't have corpse removal. Sentinal league for me was likely the best ever league. The robots were fun, and you could customize your expenses to your own mapping flavor. All 3 robots were compelling depending on what content you are doing. Your resource (robots) would evolve over the course of the league, becoming more complex and more rewarding. That doesn't even touch on how good recombinors were both engaging with and how it made items off the ground interesting and compelling to interact with for the first time. It also removed tons of items from the market as people attempted to make items. Like i did using 150 wands to make one item.
allflame embers - or how to make maps fun again - adjust rarity of scarabs/currency - remove useless ones like splinters and u got a rlly fun league - fix the hundreds of stash tabs u need to keep up with the coffins and u even got a nice crafting improvement i hope that goes core but make it better for ur stashtabs
heist is certainly the most new content dense league to have ever happened, but god i miss synthesis. all i want for christmas is the synthesis "mapping" back. sure it needed work, and some streamlining but i was very sad to see it go in favor of just having a boss, the uniques, and random fractured/synthesized bases.
Before watching: where did ambitious leagues go? Mark wants to earn easy points as new lead, thus he made only populist leagues so far. Maybe next league will be something quite more complicated.
I wonder what GGG consider as a success and if their metrics tell them enough about what is happening. Are the supporter pack whales their main income source, or are people buying a few stash tabs every other league (and keeping them playing) important. Bugs seem to come up often as causing a swift dropoff in reception/retention of a league. That has not been a reason for me because I'm not in endgame fast enough for them to affect me . If it is bugs and the 3 month cycle there are two changes that seem fairly obvious, test all leagues more prior to release. I don't have a gaming developer background but I do have a test background and some of the errors just seem obvious. The downside is you cannot be changing stuff the day before release. The other change is 2 teams . A big league and endgame polish team and the 3 month team. One big league a year and an endgame melt and repour every 2. This isn't going to happen with poe2 on the way, but I really hope that poe2 has test scripting as a part of its design goals.
To me it kinda feels like expendition league was the last attempt to somewhat bigger league. After that it felt like smaller league that felt like they really needed something more to the league mechanic or just fully missed their mark. The autobattler missed the mark compleetly for me as someone who does like the autobattlers like the one in hearthstone. Necropolis falls bit in between of that for me, while I think the allflame is a cool idea to modify the targetted monsters the corpses, crafting with them and the buffed up system for monsters that is always on didnt hit the mark as it should for the average person. How the base game of poe is now is just something that more or less feels that it is becoming better and better with the quality of life we are getting over the time of leagues. Comming back to the main point I do believe we should get once in a while a bigger league that throws the game on a new side or add something new for people to play with. However I dont see this happening while poe2 is not out yet maybe not even after a while it is out as poe2 most likely will need every hand on the job to make good and enjoyable enough as I still wonder how much there will be to do in the game after the acts.
Honestly they should put more emphasis on dropping more items than dropping more currency. Paying support gems for 20 divs is not that fun at all. When you put bad scarab testing on top of that where majority of times ppl got rich by exploiting bad and lazy game design in mmo it rly leaves bad taste. I finished t17 did few bosses and alt f4 from game because pushing something cool is not cool at all when i need to work 5 times as hard as somebody that exploited game early. Not to mention ridiculous crafting system that is BORING AF no mater how good items it crafts. ITS BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORIIIING.
Reason heist was popular was stupid exalt farm. Ppl got hooked on easy exalted orbs because that was never as big as heist. Than came other leagues that did just same old bland currency print where nothing has any value. BOOOOOOOOOOFINRING.
pretty sure people who made the ambitious league are busy making poe 2 into a game , we are getting some old poe2 assets fused into something that is ok enough from the little manpower they can spare , it kinda sucks but game is in a good enough state for now to last 3-4 league like this , things like bringing back tattoos are a good way to add more stuff to the game with minimal dev effort
They're too busy raising the ceiling constantly and letting a few players fill the economy with too much stuff. With how bad midgame crafting and weaker builds are and how unprofitable basic shit like running Rituals is, playing offmeta becomes a matter of just saving up for a bunch of this new crop of overpowered uniques. Game's very boring because the power curve is more like a power asymptote and frankly I think it's time to drop it and wait for peeoweetoo.
heist wont come near the sim harvest pilons and shit, 82 slot machines full of crafts. that was maybe more bombastic than deep? as in game inside game? in that case it's Delve, although it't not the most original, HEist hits the balance of innovation, change of gameplay/builds/styles, depth & complexity. I Think in terms of GGG it is objectively not the most ambitious.
![[POE 3.24] Which is better, more offense or more defense?](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/G8IH6hYEh-s/mqdefault.jpg)
most ambitious was ascendancy still causing major repercussions till this day 🙏
They went into the development of POE2 is my guess.
Listening to you speculate about why leagues after Heist were less ambitious left me scratching my head in confusion. You do know that at the end of Heist League, Chris Wilson wrote an open letter to the players apologizing for the bugs and saying Heist League was too ambitious, and from now on leagues would be smaller in scope and more focused? There’s literally nothing to speculate on here.
funny how people thought that it's crafting is obtuse. thankfully tools were created early that essentially guided you to the answer then tweak it from there, and i made some sick items for myself and sold some for profit early on. overall i played this league a lot more than i usually do, i was just having fun
Was playing everyday back in harvest league. And then stop playing after they change harvest. Playing again in necropolis like it was harvest league back then. Love the league since you can craft crazy item 😜
I honestly just wanna see Crucible Scarabs. I play mostly standard and I started in Crucible league. I didn’t understand how much I loved crucible til I lost it 😂😂😂. But having some way, no matter how “rare”, to create new crucible trees would make the game complete for me!
BRING BACK CRUCIBLE.
I think scourge league brought something interesting to the game.. granted the loot reward setup was not up to snuff but the idea of gathering power and then switching at will to another version of the map, that somehow felt very appealing to me and added a new level of complexity.. you had to build with the scourge version in mind and the tainted currency idea was great too..
Same as my hard earned money, it went into POE2.
Beyond the ambitious leagues shenanigans, the current league seems to be carried by the scarab rework (and sextants deletion) more than anything, really. One of the complaints some people may have about it, is precisely why it's so great for casual players, or 'surface level' players which is a more apt way of calling them. I mean, think about it, nowadays you can really only focus on one, maybe two mechanics on your maps because the way scarabs work is by combo-ing them, which ends up limiting how diverse your mapping experience is, plus most of them are pretty cheap. Spend a divine orb of scarabs for each slot of your map device and you're set for a few dozens of maps which..For some casual player might just fill up an entire week of playtime ? Depending on the mechanic in question a single div orb can buy you more than a hundred of scarabs even.
Btw, based on that, I can't even begin to imagine the backlash if devs didn't introduced the multiple atlas skill trees thing. Because being locked into one farming strategy, and needing a hundred or so unmaking orbs to change probably would've been a pain.
But just taking that into consideration, I'm sure most of the players just discovered (or rediscovered, maybe?) what the atlas truly is about, just now, in 2024. Necropolis is more of a dark spot in this, in my opinion. Despite the broken items you can craft with it, it truly is just a painful experience through and through. I've made a few wonky crafts myself, but planting the whole 88 corpses in there, all around a map, while being able to carry only so much in your inventory and the necropolis interface.. Nah. Make that damn graveyard a UI and coffins a single slot stackable object like incubators, you can infinitely stack up in Arimor's arse and, _maybe_ it could start to be appealing to play with. Until then it's just garbo, if it didn't offer such broken items no one would interact with it. Oh, and the corpses UI being so obnoxious in maps, fix that too while you're at it.
After Heist disastrous's launch it was time for GGG to calm down on the scope of 3-4 months long leagues. And even nowadays they still don't have the time to do extensive testing and balancing. So they can decrease the leagues scope even more, if that allows for more polished content and helps avoiding the early league fixing patches, I'm all in.
Remember Heist still isn't working in 2024. I don't want non-fonctioning content in the game.
Necropolis feels like the unwanted child from harvest and sextants. It’s been very mid considering how easy it’s been to cook up some absolutely insane pieces of gear. I imagine better balance to scarab drops and the insane t17 experience come next league
Leagues are not being steadily trickled in to the core game and old leagues aren't being retired as fast as I feel they should be. We are farming the same mechanics we've been farming for almost a decade at this point (essence, abyss, torment, breach all came out in 2016 or earlier). The reworks are nice but I think it's a case of too little too late. The game feels very stale at this point in it's lifecyle and I think they want to keep it that way so PoE2 can have the spotlight on launch and beyond.
expedition was a pretty ambitious league.
I just don't like crafting leagues. Because as someone who doesn't have a ton of time to play I feel that unless I play meta, which I pretty much refuse to do, I'll be very left behind.
Don't forget about God's greatest gift to PoE; Syndicate Operatives.
I stopped doing Heist in 3.20 when my RF jugg, who could tank Eater of Worlds tentacle slams, got one shot by some Heist mob on the way out after a heist. I like this league. I've been able to make 2 really good chests and a really good scepter. I like component based crafting not RNG based.
I would definitely say Wildwood was as ambitious or more than Delirium. As far as retention this league goes, im glad you are still having fun, but the player retention for Necropolis has been one of the worst leagues in years.
i'm so tired of sitting on this standard+ waitlist for PoE2 that we've had for the past few years.
All flames and the lantern are just sextent 2.0. Peraonally, i think that aspect is pretty huge. Getting a sneak peek into what you are about to fight and giving you a chance to say na I dont want to fight pocupines because I don't have corpse removal.
Sentinal league for me was likely the best ever league. The robots were fun, and you could customize your expenses to your own mapping flavor. All 3 robots were compelling depending on what content you are doing. Your resource (robots) would evolve over the course of the league, becoming more complex and more rewarding. That doesn't even touch on how good recombinors were both engaging with and how it made items off the ground interesting and compelling to interact with for the first time. It also removed tons of items from the market as people attempted to make items. Like i did using 150 wands to make one item.
Imo sentinel was a great league mechanic at a bad time.
Archnemesis made it quite unfun.
allflame embers - or how to make maps fun again - adjust rarity of scarabs/currency - remove useless ones like splinters and u got a rlly fun league - fix the hundreds of stash tabs u need to keep up with the coffins and u even got a nice crafting improvement i hope that goes core but make it better for ur stashtabs
heist is certainly the most new content dense league to have ever happened, but god i miss synthesis. all i want for christmas is the synthesis "mapping" back. sure it needed work, and some streamlining but i was very sad to see it go in favor of just having a boss, the uniques, and random fractured/synthesized bases.
if you have good job speed and play heist, 80% of the time you dont even see a door
GGG is using poe1 to beta test systems and code for poe2. its pretty simple
Before watching: where did ambitious leagues go? Mark wants to earn easy points as new lead, thus he made only populist leagues so far. Maybe next league will be something quite more complicated.
Ambition went to PoE2 dev.
I wonder what GGG consider as a success and if their metrics tell them enough about what is happening. Are the supporter pack whales their main income source, or are people buying a few stash tabs every other league (and keeping them playing) important.
Bugs seem to come up often as causing a swift dropoff in reception/retention of a league. That has not been a reason for me because I'm not in endgame fast enough for them to affect me . If it is bugs and the 3 month cycle there are two changes that seem fairly obvious, test all leagues more prior to release. I don't have a gaming developer background but I do have a test background and some of the errors just seem obvious. The downside is you cannot be changing stuff the day before release. The other change is 2 teams . A big league and endgame polish team and the 3 month team. One big league a year and an endgame melt and repour every 2.
This isn't going to happen with poe2 on the way, but I really hope that poe2 has test scripting as a part of its design goals.
To me it kinda feels like expendition league was the last attempt to somewhat bigger league. After that it felt like smaller league that felt like they really needed something more to the league mechanic or just fully missed their mark. The autobattler missed the mark compleetly for me as someone who does like the autobattlers like the one in hearthstone.
Necropolis falls bit in between of that for me, while I think the allflame is a cool idea to modify the targetted monsters the corpses, crafting with them and the buffed up system for monsters that is always on didnt hit the mark as it should for the average person.
How the base game of poe is now is just something that more or less feels that it is becoming better and better with the quality of life we are getting over the time of leagues.
Comming back to the main point I do believe we should get once in a while a bigger league that throws the game on a new side or add something new for people to play with. However I dont see this happening while poe2 is not out yet maybe not even after a while it is out as poe2 most likely will need every hand on the job to make good and enjoyable enough as I still wonder how much there will be to do in the game after the acts.
Honestly they should put more emphasis on dropping more items than dropping more currency. Paying support gems for 20 divs is not that fun at all. When you put bad scarab testing on top of that where majority of times ppl got rich by exploiting bad and lazy game design in mmo it rly leaves bad taste. I finished t17 did few bosses and alt f4 from game because pushing something cool is not cool at all when i need to work 5 times as hard as somebody that exploited game early. Not to mention ridiculous crafting system that is BORING AF no mater how good items it crafts. ITS BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORIIIING.
Reason heist was popular was stupid exalt farm. Ppl got hooked on easy exalted orbs because that was never as big as heist. Than came other leagues that did just same old bland currency print where nothing has any value. BOOOOOOOOOOFINRING.
pretty sure people who made the ambitious league are busy making poe 2 into a game , we are getting some old poe2 assets fused into something that is ok enough from the little manpower they can spare , it kinda sucks but game is in a good enough state for now to last 3-4 league like this , things like bringing back tattoos are a good way to add more stuff to the game with minimal dev effort
poe2 happened, ofc no more time for very ambitious leagues
They're too busy raising the ceiling constantly and letting a few players fill the economy with too much stuff. With how bad midgame crafting and weaker builds are and how unprofitable basic shit like running Rituals is, playing offmeta becomes a matter of just saving up for a bunch of this new crop of overpowered uniques. Game's very boring because the power curve is more like a power asymptote and frankly I think it's time to drop it and wait for peeoweetoo.
heist wont come near the sim harvest pilons and shit, 82 slot machines full of crafts. that was maybe more bombastic than deep? as in game inside game? in that case it's Delve, although it't not the most original, HEist hits the balance of innovation, change of gameplay/builds/styles, depth & complexity. I Think in terms of GGG it is objectively not the most ambitious.
PoE 2 development. Easy question. Next.
I think there is one league that you missed that is comparable; Sanctum.
sanctum as a mechanic is and will always be the worst mechanic in the game
They went to Path of Exile 2.
Necropolis most boring and stupid league in the history of all poe
_Laughs in onslaught_
@@satibel in that times poe look like diablo 2)
Archnemesis was pretty much ambitious, no? Ultimatum was the first great risk versus reward mechanic, not sure it was ambitious though...