Andrew Klavan Talks Violence In Storytelling/Becoming Christian/Movies Ruining Movies
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- čas přidán 31. 08. 2020
- Today on The Babylon Bee Podcast, Kyle and Ethan talk to Andrew Klavan an author, screenwriter, essayist, and host of The Andrew Klavan Show at The Daily Wire. They discuss whether good storytelling requires sex & violence, movies that ruined entire movie genres, and going from secular Jew to Christian at age 49. Kyle and Ethan pitch their best movie remake ideas and they talk shop with a fellow satirist.
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Gotta say, I listened to Another Kingdom as a podcast, and it wasn't the sex scene that was disturbing; it was listening to Michael Knowles reading a sex scene that was disturbing
Seriously? Where is this link??
@@lorrainem.swartzentruber3077 it was on their spotify
How does a man read a sex scene who’s never actually had sex read a sex scene?
George Harvey How does a man form a sentence who has never formed a sentence form a sentence?
Can you get it off of spotify? I hate going there.
This is so great😂, Christians need more people doing satire and comedy
Viva Costa Rica, viva Cristo Rey y la Virgen de los Ángeles
I find it odd that Klavan can be such an avid fan of old movies, but thinks it's necessary to have swearing and nudity in modern movies to make them believable. If you write compelling dialogue and a good story, you don't need to swear and you can imply nudity/sex to get at the same themes without encouraging your audience to sin. Plenty of people swore in daily life in the 50s, too, but they didn't make many movies with giant blue streaks. Were the movies terrible because of that? No. Similarly, very few movies back then had graphic sexual content. Did that make the gangster movies worse? Or did an implication like kissing before closing the bedroom door, or two people waking up next to each other sell what took place without the audience needing to hear and see all the details? I agree modern Christian movies often lack believability because they never want to show that Christians can even despair, or get frustrated with God, or make poor decisions. They obviously can and do, and depicting a more believable plot would make a lot of those movies better. But let's be real, the issue is typically a low budget combined with bad acting, bad directing, and often subpar writing (occasionally the writing is what's decent, but the acting, directing and overall budget normally let them down). It's not as if these movies could become good if they just added some swearing and sex. Furthermore, I don't know how a Christian writer/director can feel comfortable about asking their actors/actresses to be immodest and swear up a storm on set. I guess all I'm saying is that I think there's a distinct difference between recognizing that the world is full of sin, and adding more sin into the world.
very good argument, well said
It's different, read an Andrew klavan book or listen to another Kingdom, klavan is not a flithy writer, he just uses it where it is needed. The world we live in now is a far different place than 1950-1960 America. Most people swear every tenth word, casual sex is the norm, drugs are a past time. I think he uses these items very appropriately and he never glorifies it.
That's been the view of most Christian artists......how that been working out? Christians left culture to be dominated by secular hedonists.
@@derkguez8590 Christians and conservatives did get pushed out of the culture, but not because of the reasons I listed. Plenty of Christian/conservative media followed what I said and were wildly successful (Ben-Hur, The Ten Commandments, Veggie Tales, The Passion of the Christ, etc.). The countless other attempts by Christians/conservatives that flopped did not fail due to the movie/show being too clean, they failed because of bad acting, bad writing, bad directing, low budget effects, etc. If I'm wrong, I'd challenge you to name one flopped Christian/conservative movie that would have been good if it just had sex and swearing in it. Now, sure, other conservative movies like Dirty Harry and Gran Torino were good, successful movies while containing a fair amount of swearing, but can you really say that they would have flopped if only the swearing was removed from the scripts? To me, they were both great movies with or without the swearing.
@@IAMTHEJUGGERNATE you're making the point that Christian/conservative movies were successful without "sin" during an era when the culture was relatively conservative. The point of the matter is that the culture has changed. Conservative family values have been dumped and replaced with self- indulgent hedonism. We can't win the war if we can't recognize a lost battle. We lost the initial battle, we have to move on. "Sinless" movies will be received with rolled eye's by today's youth. I'm not suggesting we push "Christian" porn but rather movies and music that are in touch with with our values while not overtly turning off the "pagans" lol. Of coarse this is part of a broader cultural conservative failure which has been to promote material success at the expense of everything else. Most conservatives would shudder at the thought of their kids becoming writers or poets. Leftists applaud with glee and support them. Why are we then surprised when most poets are leftists? Granted the ideological cancer that has taken ahold of the University system also is a major player in the cultural phenomenon. But we can't despair, we have to establish a stake somewhere.
I agree with Andrew about Christian media needing to be not squeaky clean,but I do believe there's a place for veggie tales at times. If they did make a proper movie adaptation of the Bible it would be a hard "R" at the absolute lowest.
spilling man-seed on the ground, plunging a dagger deep into a morbidly obese man's fat rolls that it disappears...
@@ITPalGame Don't forget the dirt coming out.
Bible can be pretty metal at times.
@@ITPalGame Lefties rule. Pretty good with slings also.
I know this was a while ago, but you should check out The Chosen if you haven’t already, it’s definitely not rated R, but it’s really good!
After receiving the ugly Edgar Award, the writer declares, *Nevermore!*
Andrew fit in perfectly with the pace of Kyle and Ethan and the inherent awkwardness. 😂 One of my favorite episodes so far
Sorry but he's heads above them.
Read the great good thing this past weekend and it was absolutely phenomenal. A great life story and a great breakdown of the philosophical journey to Christ.
Andrew Klavan: “Well where do the little vegetables come from? I think it’s time to tell the truth!” 😂
I can see it now... a VeggieTales reboot by Andrew Klavan:
"Night ... of the Salad Shooter!"
I think Christian movies desperately need a dose of reality. But I also think that is very possible to show the dirty nasty side of sin without also tempting or causing those that watch to sin.
"They'll still gas you," made me laugh way, way, way too hard.
My dad said that to me when I converted to Christianity, so it's no joke. Really.
@NikovK , you my friend have a dark sense of humor , I get that !!
I was thinking last week when will Klavan lord of the multiverse be on the Babylon Bee podcast? I willed this into existence!
Thank you!
Thanks
Name it, claim it!
Or prophesied
My favorite Klavan and the Bee 🐝 👍👍👍
That's interesting because my own politicals also changed while I've been overseas. Not being surrounded by liberal lunatics all the time and hearing their propaganda may have something to do with it.
The Bible says do not be vulgar. Meaning vulgarity should not be depicted in your art. If you need the "f" word to convey these people are thugs, it's a lack of talent. No "golly-gee-willickers" isn't what you're going to do, but there are ways to do it.
His point that "women shouldn't have to get naked, and just do a good job," is right on. Then spits right on that idea. Then to liken Passion to porn? People fetishize literally anything. (rule 34) But just because something is graphic, doesn't mean it's meant to be lust inducing or vulgar. Which are both sin.
I don't think the F-word itself is inherently vulgar or sinful, especially when used in a fictional context. Sin comes from the heart, it is not a list of words based on modern social norms. I feel like it could be argued that the Bible uses strong language when called, such as Isaiah 64:6.
So by your definition the Bible should have parts cut out of it, you know, like the sex, the murder, the theft, the violence i.e. so its OK for the Bible which is God's word to be vulgar but not the artists he created? That is the reason why I am a Deist, when Christians come up with this stuff their being hypocrites. I agree with the Babylon Bee guys and Klavan, nobody will get your message if you insist on not showing reality the way it is.
There are no Es in Klavan
*Klevan
@@VVeremoose *Kleven
@@MikeHammer1 *Eleven
@@VVeremoose I surrender!
I laughed so hard through this interview, I became a subscriber. *Fireplug* you, Babylon Bee!
The funniest part is when you post satire on Facebook... and FB labels it as *False Information* (I guess they use AI bots?).
That was a really good interview, thank you
The real question raised by this Podcast seems to be "What should a Christian be entertained by?"
Andrew Klavan is the best!
Love these guys together!
It wasn't Star Wars that ruined movies but the Disney purchase of the franchise.
Great observations about Christians and art. I've read several of Mr. Klavan's novels and I would recommend them to anyone.
I loved his junior fiction. His detective novels have too much sex & cussing, even after he became a Christian. His wolfman cop book was good & redemptive.
Great job guys!
I bet it warms guests' hearts to learn that the interviewer knows nothing about them. :-) The music sounds better at 1.5x speed.
So many good parts of this interview. For some reason, the "turnip" dub made me laugh the most -- caught me by surprise.
30:05 It's called the Message Bible.
In regards to using swearing in fantasy I really like how Brandon Sanderson handles that(apart from just being a great author). He basically invents endemic swears that have cultural context in relation to the worldbuilding.
And the Klavan, never flitting, still is sitting, still is sitting,
With the pallid bust of Poe hidden on his chamber floor...
Love Andrew, one of the funniest guys on the internet. Wish we'd get more Klavan on the culture-esque short videos, enjoyed those more than the podcast format.
I adore Andrew Klavan! He is so funny and witty! I became a Christian at 45. Just goes to show... it's never too late! Praise the Lord! 🙏❤
This should have more views
Bill Whittle stuck his face in my face and said, "FLOWERBED."
You know. Like normal people do.
And what about the great American authors? They didn't need pornographic material in their books to sell? Just saying!
16:25 Walsh does Satire on daily wire
26:57 The St*r W*rs menace is named
No the passion of the Christ is violent because it has to be. Sex in a movies or a book provokes feelings of lust and desire. That is completely normal as a human condition. Watching violence does not make most mentally healthy people want to go commit aggravated assault. Huge difference!!! I see where Klavan is coming from but I completely disagree 100%. But I like him anyways. I would just skip past the pornographic scenes in his books if I read them.
So maybe you shouldn't read the Bible, where David screws Bathsheba while he sent her husband to the front of the line to get killed, or how Noah's daughters get him drunk and screw him etc. pretty dumb and hypocritical of you.
@@RockLibertyWarrior the events are mentioned, but not graphic, like the sex scenes in his books w/ all the cussin
Christian art does not look like Christian life. The most Christian movie that I have ever seen, from Hollywood, is The Exorcist. As horror, it doesn't hold up very well, because modern audiences are blasé. As a pure drama, it stands as tall as ever.
Haven't watched yet, just skimmed comments. I think cursing has a place, but just not constant. If a character gets hurt or see a friend die, it makes total sense to swear, or even an angry character. It just drives me nuts when it is shoved into dialogue non stop.
Andrews videos on PJ TV were excellent.
I loved Air Bud!!!
In my opinion, super hero movies are a result of lack of own ideas. Everyone who has the technology to do computer animations wants to make a movie, without any own thought, concept, idea or philosophy. Thats what makes these movies so boring, interchangable and empty. Same is with music. Playing with sound sythesizers does not create good music. It just makes one song sound like all the others. What we need is more ambition and less technological tricks.
I agree on some things you say about ambition and something besides superhero movies, but as a musician who plays guitar, bass, and keys I must say I really love synthesizers and welcome their use. Of course, good songwriting is always the kicker.
Clint Eastwood to Andrew Klavan on premier day: *Feeling lucky, punk?*
So... the point of Christian art is to be more socially accepted by focusing more on the humanism aspects? I love Mr. Kalavan, but sometimes I don’t get him.
The Avengers ruined movies. Now we all get lame comic book CGI-fests.
I love at 18:55 when he just loses it
I like be the way they censor curse words
You ain't *fireplace* kidding.
Ah yes, the Klavaning. I wouldn't miss it!
I don't remember Evangelical Christians complaining about that movie because Noah got drunk I remember them complaining about that movie because he tried to murder a baby
I did enjoy Biker Mice From Mars as a kid
If you guys were Christians, the why did you not correct Klavan when he asked for the verses that commands Christians to worship in a community , i.e. church? Like Hebrews 10:24-25 and all of 1 Corinthians 11 just to name a few.
People don’t always have the right verses pop into their minds at the right moment.
SAVE THE KLAVAN! And find the E!
>>> E
@@FabledNarrative thanks! Now I can use the power of Silent E to wreck havoc!
"Flowerbed" is nice, but you guys are Lord of the Rings fans. You need to find a sound clip of one of the Ians (Holm or McKellen) saying, "My dear Frodo". It has the right number of syllables, and very similar phonemes. =)
Picture an irate Samuel L Jackson dubbed saying, "My dear Frodo" in a very gentle voice.
25:15 Part about movies ruining movies starts here.
Andre Klavan on Babylon bee!!
Andre Klavan on Babylon bee!!!
Andre Klavan on Babylon bee!!!!!
Andre Klavan on Babylon bee!!!!!!!
Crime and Punishment really isn't that long, but it is fantastic. Everyone should read that instead of Catcher In The Rye or Great Gatsby in school.
Do these guys have a hat with hyper-random questions in? "Have you ever thought about razing ferrets?" "What was it like getting uncircumcised?" "Should we do an X rated muppet movie?" (um, it's been done; with drugs and human ladies without clothes getting banged by puppets.) "Do you write sex scenes like Stephen King?" "What was Clint Eastwood's breath like?" Or are the questions made up on the spot?
Yeah they said raising ferrets, but okay...
“Holy exposure Batman,” exclaimed Robin.
Klavan was so much better than you two in this interview; had you even heard of him before this?
33:00 there are two movies with nude scenes that are essential to the plots: Terminator and Terminator 2.
Yessssssssssss :)
Yay
Wow 49 yo I didn't know that. I wonder what it was like for his kids? Spencer, bless him, strikes me as someone brought up immersed in Christianity but perhaps not.
They'll gas you anyway. 😳 Last year that might have been funny...
Today?
Edit : Movie that ruined movies... Black Swan. Hands down!
Didn't know that there was anyone who was still this blue pilled on 9/11 and the middle east.
16:35 Rather than listing his articles under _Satire,_ They should just call his section _Klavan's Korner._ (copyright pending~ lol)
'Air Grasshopper.' Kind of like Bambi vs Godzilla. That's a real movie by the way, for those of you who are too young to remember... look it up.
Jew converting to Christianity. isn't that like finally watching Empire after only watching a New Hope and insisting that's all there was?
There are no Es in klavan but there are Es in Babylon bee, therefore I am conflicted inside. I'll have to think on this for a long time now .
19:42 It's called Meet the Feebles.
So awkward! So funny!
Is it just me or did they get the Halo multiplayer announcer for the censoring?
26:57 :)
Mr. Klavan didn't choose God. God chose Mr. Klavan.
Muppet porn movie? Peter Jackson already did that to some extent with Meet the Feebles.
Anointed art is not equal to anointed preaching. It is not Christianity you guys seem to have a hard time grasping, it is holiness. I laughed much of this podcast, but telling Christians to be entertained and feed on the things of the world is not Holiness.
Well put! That's why I have such a hard time w/ all the cussin!
Because the Bees steadfastly refuse to take seriously the idea that NOT sucking at interviewing has its upside, I could not get through more than a couple of minutes of this, much as I like Andrew Klavan. Starting an interview with "I don't know where to start" and "I had no idea you were this prolific writer" is practically to pay homage to the art of ll-preparedness, to the point where it is insulting to an audience of all but the meanest intelligence. Maybe you guys should hire a 22 year old out of journalism school somewhere to conduct these for you.
Its comedy, dude.
Your long analysis of a comedy video shows why you don't get it. 🙃
He skirts SPIRITUAL reality, though, in the name of trying to keep his art on top. Spiritual reality is that nudity and sex scenes DO promote a person's base feelings. God tells us to walk away from those things. Everyone already knows what's out in the world. God tells us to not be like the world, to put away those old things, EVEN to use them in context of a story. What makes you any different than the world? This isn't based on whether or not Christian's swear or mess up, but of what you say is okay for the masses to watch and think about. Anyone who has been young knows that all you will remember of a movie is the nudity and sex, which is what they will focus on. The youth get enough of that already and it has corrupted society. Every society that has fallen has always become hyper-sexual. Look it up. That's why the Lord warns us of becoming it or promoting it. My point isn't to say you're not Christian or know the Lord, but that you are promoting something that could confuse and even influence someone for the worse. Like it or not, it happens. You are not responsible for someone's choices but are responsible for influencing them.
For one of the best Bible explainers
look up Brant Pitre on CZcams.
I would have to largely disagree. Violence you can’t avoid. That is part of the human world. But I think you can convey everything needed and avoid pointless corrupt communication. And no you don’t need to have an explicit porno scene to convey everything required to progress the story. And if you can’t possibly do that, then you are not as good as you think at story telling.
Klavan is great, but the hosts not so much. Especially the big fella.
Maybe you guys could work off of an outline?
It was like he was wearing an egger suit.
You might like to join the " not terribly good club" it's a thing. Look it up.
Have you considered raising ferrets 😂
29:58 The Bible is pretty clean. It's got a lot of sex and violence, but not really graphic (except Ezekiel and Song of Solomon), and any swearing is deftly avoided. Like when Peter is denying Jesus, it says "he cursed" or "with oaths", rather the quoting him. Another place, Saul calls Jonathan a "son-of-a-vile-and-rebellious woman", rather than use the b-word
Right ok. Judges. The Levite and the concubine. After I read that story of domestic violence/serial killer type of rape & violence, I’m going to worry about bad words? This is why I don’t read Christian fiction. It is unbelievable.
@@katylee1914 Reading about terrible things that happened is just lets you know what happened. Reading words that are offensive is offensive. For instance, most people would be willing to read about the the horrors of the American slave trade, but would not pronounce the n-word or use it if they were writing about the slave trade, even in a quote. It's just not edifying. Reading about how 55,000 Benjamites were slaughtered in a bloody 3-day civil war because they refused to hand over a gang of rapists has a very strong message to teach us
@@katylee1914 Also, have you read any Ted Dekker? I don't read any fiction at all anymore, but _Saint_ was a clean non-stop thrill ride and _House_ (at least the movie) was pretty good too
"Son of a whore" (ben zonah) is the worst thing in the Hebrew Bible. In modern Hebrew, in Israel, Hebrew-speakers take a detour into Arabic for real profanity. Arabic is a beautiful language. It also has some choice, vile obscenities.
@@katylee1914 It doesn't use any bad words. It's a shocking story, and it's supposed to be. It ends with "there was no king in Israel in those days, and every man did what was right in his own eyes" And that's the point: no human justice.
Lost all respect for Klavan when he dissed The Princess Bride.
He's got a point: it's a very good movie, but it's supposed to be at least partially a comedy, and it really isn't funny.
Regardless of whether something is fantasy or not, if there is a lot of explicit content, violence and cursing, this will attract demonic attention.
God calls us to be in the world but not OF it. I'm not going to watch things that are celebrating impurity nor push into edgy territory; that's what hell uses to attract and weaken God's children.
This man is a relatively new Christian and it may take him some time to realize the negative impact of continuing to feed the sin nature.
Every sex scene has a point to it
Ha giggity
We don't need to see and shouldn't see any sex scenes, as it's clearly perverted. Some movies don't show it, they just show what happens afterwards.
*f l o w e r b e d*
10 Pound Sword?
a jew who is not a jew has 0 cred for me
Much of ET was filled in my front yard.
filmed.
Christianity always needs more Jews to convert, this is just a reminder.
People in Israel are actually starting to become Christians. God DID send Messiah for His people after all
Check out One For Israel ministry! Klavan even has a video testimony on there.
Huh, I thought Edgar Allen poe was dead
35:00
His examples Michelangelo (Catholic), Dostoyevsky (Orthodox), and Bach (High Church Lutheran) were great artists, who weren’t banal and out of touch with reality, because their take on Christianity wasn’t banal and stupid like American evangelicalism is banal and stupid.
It was a throwaway line but Biker Mice from Mars was one of the best kids shows ever
@Chang Noi Him and Ratt Stevens
Love him & the talk. But your intro is really loud, repetitive, brash, obnoxious, and too long..sorry lol. I'm begging you to have mercy on my senses and change it😂🙏 love your interview with Abigail too💙
Sounds like someone needs to actually read the bible, specifically where it speaks of lust, not delighting in evil, not to mention half of the proverbs. You want a template of how to deal with sex and violence without delighting in it? Read the bible.
Murder scenes.
..And he slew him
Suicide scenes:
..He fell on his sword.
..He ran into a field and hanged himself.
Sex and rape scene:
..And he knew her.
This is just people wanting to justify their sinful lusts and love of violence. Do we all have sinful lusts and desires? Of course, but how can you even ask for forgiveness from God if you are not only denying it's a sin, but straight up celebrating it, and circulating it?
I'll watch Drew Klavan anytime...this is my first trip to the "Babylon Bee" and most likely my last...I'm funnier than these two sticks-in-the-mud, they are really annoying.