Our most painful boat project yet: installing flexible solar panels. #4
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- čas přidán 16. 04. 2018
- One month until we start our big sailing adventure, and we’re starting to feel the pressure of the schedule!
In this episode, we’re tackling our first big sailboat project: installing 400 Watts of Sunbeam Tough+ solar panels on our Beneteau Oceanis 40.
It took us six days of working on the boat nonstop to get the solar panels up and running. Ryan thought it would be a “fun sailboat project” for him, but the work turned out a lot more frustrating than he had initially planned.
So why did we install solar panels?
When living aboard and going blue water cruising, we rely on systems that run 24/7, such as the GPS, the VHF radio or even the fridge. Those systems require energy, which our batteries cater until we have to charge them! We could run the motor to do that, which isn’t sustainable.
We wanted to be as self-sufficient as possible and installed almost 400 Watts of solar panels. Putting them on the deck was a straightforward process, but running the wires turned a LOT more challenging than we expected. If our production boat made sailing easy and accessible to the newbies we are, DYI refits aren’t the simplest of task, as the wires are difficult to access.
In this video, we show how we originally thought we would run the solar panel wires on our Beneteau Oceanis 40, and how we ended up doing it. So that you don’t end up like us and get the running rod stuck between the deck and the fiberglass! We did that a few times, and we will have to live with the lovely sound that they produce until we find a way to get them out.
The entire project was then compromised by one little screw, which required multiples days, efforts and tools to pull out. Turned out, someone had screwed another screw in the stripped screw and fixed the whole things with…. staples. Weirdest thing we’ve seen.
Now Polar Seal looks really cool with her new solar panels on the deck, and we are blue water ready!
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everything will get better and you will get better. just never give up......with love from texas....
Very real frustrations. Congratulations.
Great job guys. Its ok to cry sometimes, clears the air.
Thanks Claas, we’re now polishing / waxing the hull, it’s a lot of work too!
Oh my god Ryan, your “ I sold the boat a few times” quote made me laugh out loud- I said it several times myself. Keep up the fine work and thank you both for sharing. Looking forward to the next chapter of this adventure.
Just discovered your channel! We just installed flexible solar on our boat as well. Great video! We subscribed
Nice work you two!
Great video guys! Very informative and entertaining at the same time. You basically confirmed what I already kinda knew.....the wiring is always the worst part on a boat.....the panels look good......stay well!
Witty and fun!
Omeomy you guys got alot of fun ahead of y'all
Hi Ryan & Sophie! I just wanted to say big thanks to you both for so informative and great videos. Im Daniel from Sweden who is in the process of buying a sailboat to cruise around the world full time by my self and I learned a bunch from your videos. If you guys plan to come home let me invite you for a fika :) Im in Stockholm. Take care and safe sailing!
Great video :)
I dont know if this still is the situation.... and I dont know if you need any hints and tips... but still; here we go;
Harvesting energy from the sun is the best way to cover your needs (in my opinion) , but owners should know that there is no flow of current if batteries dont need any charge (batteries are fully charged). The regulator should automatically take care of this. 400 watts of solarpanels should in practical use give 18-20 amps on a sunny day (if sun above you). Theoretically there should be as much as 33 A in 12 volt... but in reality not so much.. But 18-20 Amps is great if you ask me.
My setup is also 400 watts solar panels. Typically I do have a total of 100 Ah of consumption during 24 hrs. Lets say my batteries are fully charged by sundown; If my batteries has dropped by e.g. 50-60 Ah during the night, my solars need 3-4 hrs the next day to top up my batteries again. Then again, if batteries was 100 % by 13.00; the solars and regulator dont deliver any charge after that. How ever, the solars deliver what ever usage of amps I have. In other words, all my equipment is now running directly from the sun.
Then we got the days without any sun; on such days it is better if one got a bigger battery bank. Another great device is the fuel cell. Methanol charging the batteries. I am using 20 liters of methanol in a year. Thats aprox 1000 amps from 10 liters. The waste is water only. Check it out Efoy Comfort 210 will give you a steady 8 amps 24/7 if needed. Installed in 1 hrs. But kind of expensive....
I do monitor all the volts & amps. I got one LCD displaying whatever comes from the sun, and I got another LCD displaying whatever goes into the batteries. Both of these LCD´s can show all kind of info about volts and amps.
The regulator; better spend money for a quality regulator than a cheap fake one. Some regulators dont prevent current flow in the direction from the batteries and up to the solars.. during night... Yes; the current can flow back up there.... Batteries charged during daytime, and drained during night. In such case, one could stop this night flow by use of one big diode. (A diode is great in any case if you ask me)
I keep a spare regulator... never know....
If you need any hints & tips...... ?... please ask :-)
FYI, the Efoy Comfort 210 fuel cell also produces CO2
I believe in the KISS principle: Keep It Simple Stupid. With that in mind, whenever I start with five tools to start a project, I need to return 20 tools to the tool box at the end.
O I'm glad I'm not the only one
Hi, nice boat I know how you feel I have just spent three years rebuilding a commercial fishing boat mostly on my own with a bit of help from friends, I wish I had made a kind of a you tube thing of it but at least I have a lot of pictures all along the way, I will upload some stuff once I start fishing, I have a short clip of the engine.
Hi Ryan, Sophie, congratulations for your videos, which I recently discovered, are very beautiful, pleasant and instructive.
I would like to do the same job on my oceanis 40 but I didn't understand where you made the cables go from the dinette to aft cabin and then from sky to the closet of it
It is October of 2019 , today I found your channel and started watching at Ep#1. I think Sophie is a natural
actress and has a knack for comedy. This is the fifth or sixth sailing channel I have watched and they
all have a few things in common , nothing works as it is suppose to , nothing ( ok almost nothing )
goes smoothly , and in most projects you never have all the correct tools.
Hahaha! That’s correct Joe! You have just described what we now as “boat life” ;)
Cheers from Spain!
/Sophie
You two are hilarious! I can completely commiserate with your experience, just finished running my wiring runs for solar yesterday (not fun!!). But it sure feels great when it's done and you can make power from the sun!! Good work, keep up the fun times ;)
Hi Saltwest! Yes, its a great feeling.... i was actually surprised when it worked on the first go! i was left standing there thinking "well... now what :) guess i put the boat back together" It will be interesting comparing the solar output here at 59north to lower latitudes so that will be exciting :) Good luck with your project and thanks for watching the channel.
Thanks you! We haven't had the opportunity to try them yet, but it sure feels good to have it done :) Ryan has been working on the boat a lot since the solar panel, with an equal blend of frustration and satisfaction! /Sophie
Yeah, it kind of just keeps going like that...lol. You'll have to do a follow-up showing the output of the panels, what you like about them, and anything you'd do differently. We're going to do the same I think, a little followup. There's so much information out there that I think it helps to show people how the "actually" work, rather than just the theory of various installation methods.
Its good that you're getting stuff done Sophie.....take a look at mads from sail life and his boat refit in denmark, now that's hard work......
Great video guys. How those flexible solar panels worked over time? Was the deck installation a good decision ? Enjoy the Caribbean.
havent seen any of yr videos lately on sosailize Net . Glad yall are having good time on yr sailing adventures !
Yeah... boat work :) the side of life your friends never really see (or understand).
yea .. they are awesome. put them on wall on sosailize ( no copy paste ) . just click video icon
Check the Gone with the Winns video on solar panels. Several of your panels are always partially shaded, no matter where the sun is. Even small shaded areas impact tremendously the power generation of solar panels. Or at least they used to be this way. And if I remember correctly, the Gone with the Winns solar project, they did test connecting panels in series and parallel against partial shading to see which one, parallel or series, would generate less losses. Check that out. Great channel!
Loving all the videos, also the Iowa jacket!?!? How did you come across that lol?
.....I've got loads to do today and I have stumbled across your channel....I'm going to get in trouble.
I۔liked your work
Just seen your video on installation of your solar panels (better late then never). How did you hook them up? Parallel, seriel or a combination?
Yes, I have sold my boat a few times and willingly bought it back...stay with it, in the end I'd do it all again
[Ryan] Thanks Seadogg... yes, I'm sure it will be sold again, and bought back. Though i must say, that project tought me a lot of patience.
Wiring Club Med: I. Deck thru connectors to MC 4 wiring. Monel or bronze bolts are excellent wire connectors. 2. Permanent topside frames for removeable small solar panels. ....Don't forget to lightning ground the frames.
Did you solder the joins in the solar feed wires? Kinda looked like you crimped them all, which could come back and bite you in the bum. We had problems with our solar install that traced back to poor joins from using crimped joiners. Solder + some heat shrink is a better long term solution, but it might be too late by now!
Thanks for the video.
Hello! No, i did not solder but that crimper used was a hell of a tool. The joints did have heat shrink on them however. The good news is i can access all the joints with ease so if i do run in to a problem it can be fixed quick. Thanks for the suggestion and comment.
How much power are your panels generating? The calcs give 33 amps, is this enough for all your electrical needs?
Lucky I have a cat. I fitted 2 x sunpower 345watt panels on the rear of my Bimini on a stainless frame I made. There is space to add another one so 1000watts will be really good 😊
did you run wires for each panel to the battery, or did you put in a junction box to consolidate the wires and run a pair of wires to the batteries? Did you install a charge controller? Most people I know use rigid panels over the stern of the boat to reduce shading of panels by sails, mast and boom. Enjoy the projects.
Hi Robert. Yes, I ran cables for each panel. People might see this as overkill and i went back and forth on it many times. The problem you can see from the video was space so if i used a junction box i would needed to have had it on deck as there was zero room for something like that in the mast. My other option was to put something in the headliner but i did not want to have to pull the headliner down each time i needed to access something. Thus, I needed things to be; 1. Safe, 2. accessible, 3. look good.
I have two MPPTs from Victron. I have the port side panels on one side and the Starboard side panels on another. I constructed it this way to help with shading issues (lets see if it actually works... but the nice thing about running all the wire about to the battery box is i can change the setup very easy if i would like)
I also looked at rigid panels with a structure to support them but the cost and time of building something just did not work. we might still look at it in the future (and i do believe its a great idea for a lot of people) but not now.
I will try to write some details about the project on our blog... ask as many questions as you want!
Are you happy with the panels after 2 years? How's reliability?
Doing it now myself in Costa Rica
Hello, could you please comment on output loss since installed? Thx
ryan you need an electricians fish it is a flexible fiberglass screw togherther pole for feeding cables into blind spaces
Oh Lord how many holes did you drill? Wow contact manufacturer for advice on routing and suggestions.
Will Prouse (youtube) blew the whistle on flex solar panels, a shortcut that backfires so bad. I'd recommend square panels instead of tall ones and even more expensive 50 watters over my favorite 100 watters. Boat builders should start including interior slots for storing panels during storms. Single strand wires are more weather resistant than multi strand on deck.
Great video! You need to get a job as a Dyneema Master Rigger sales rep! I'd try making those dead eyes and sale them online or in a island boat store or something !
just out of curiosity, I know a number of countries are playing with solar power, what made you choose the company you did?
[Ryan] Hi Gil. I researched a number of companies. Sunbeam is local here so i was able to do a lot of emailing prior to. They were quick to respond so i would say the service was one positive. I also talked to a number of people in the boating world who had used them and recommended them.
Sunbeam also came out with higher wattage panels just before i purchased, they were expensive but it was a big selling point for me (more watts for the same surface area). A few other reason but ill be outlining these in a blog post.
Amazing videos! your filming is great! How much did you pay for this beauty of a boat?
We bought Polar Seal in the UK three years ago for 80000£. That’s about what the market price is for a 10 years old beneteau oceanis 40!
@@RyanSophieSailing Cool! thanks for your reply and openness. Sophie you're hilarious and Ryan your calmness and attention to detail is amazing. PolarSeal looked in pretty good condition already when you got it so I wondered. I subscribed and can't wait to follow your next moves! Happy sailing and see you in the water soon!
So, now that you have those flex solar panels, 500w worth of them. Do you have them all on one mppt and how many amps are they producing on an average sunny day?
We had them on two MPPTs but as of a month again we removed all the panels due to damage. Ryan
@@RyanSophieSailing, i hope u got your money back. Hard panels are much better.
👍
for long term reliability and efficiency consider a upgrade to a lithium battery bank..SV Delos has a great episode dedicated to their switching from lead acid to lithium
(Ryan) hi matt. Thanks for the tip. We have a lithium surprise coming... but for a spoiler, I'm involved with a company that is now producing lithium boat batteries. I plan to do a segment on us installing and testing as well as the benefits... but that will be this winter.
Hi Matt! Ryan actually owns and do a lot of work for... a lithium battery company! They are right now developing a lithium battery engineered especially for marine use, which we will test on Polar Seal this winter. We'll let the community know how that's going :)
/Sophie
+Ryan & Sophie Sailing ..thank you both for replying ..i look forward to seeing the upgrade videos and hope the company thrives
keep up the good work and enjoy !
Oh... I didn't realize that Ryan had already answered, really sorry for spamming! Ok, over and out ;) /Sophie
Very entertaining! Curious your thinking on placing them on foredeck vs bikini top
Hi Richard. I considered all the of options. The problem i saw with the bimini was the process of opening and closing it. I dont always like sailing with the bimini on as it reduces some of the viability. Additional, a lot of the problems people have with flexible panels is the repeated bending of the panel which can lead to an early failure. in the end my two options were to place them on the deck or build a stand off the back. Building the stand was my number 1 option but the cost and time this year prohibited it.
Hope that helps... let me know if you have any more questions
hi, are they at high temperature with the sun? can you walk without whoes on them? ThankS!
Hi Oriol. Yes, you can walk on them without shoes... but they do get a bit hot. We have actually removed all of them because most failed. Not so much because of the panels but because they needed a smother surface. More to come on that. Ryan
@@RyanSophieSailing thanks
Should have gone with davits and solar array on top... you'd be much happier in the long run... ☺
I hate the people that make it look easy. Not really, I don't hate anyone...maybe dislike. :) Great job!
Oh Clay... this week, we’re in the middle of moving to the boat, and that ain’t easy of a process. We were actually reacting to how it looks so easy from the outside, but all those moments of fun you experience while sailing are dearly earned :p
So how does a French woman in Sweden come about wearing an Iowa Hawkeye's jacket??? Go Hawks!
Nice jacket, GO HAWKS!!
Heck 😥
You have beautiful hair!
Voltage drop will effect you as you have long runs to inverter. Not good. Should have invested in an arch and mounted cheaper solid solar panels. Easy to instal, more power per €€€.
Stand by for a future video Latitude.
And if one panels is in the shadow... and the other is in the sun... There could be A current flow between the panels... A inline diode on every panel is a good way to prevent this scenario. .....
(Ryan) Jan... was looking back at comments as I'm having a few solar issues. Do you know of any easy, inline diode devices? The manufacturer believes this is not needed in parallel but I'm wondering if this is true.
Looks like you buy the diodes and have to soder them in the line somehow. Any thoughts?
@@RyanSophieSailing Hi there; Happy New Year :-) My theory is that if you have two or more panels in parallel, and one of them end up in the shadow; there might be a flow of current (A) from one panel to the other. I never did any measurements or test, but it fit the theory for sure. I have seen current flowing in direction to the batteries during daytime, and from the batteries during the night. In the morning the batteries was drained. (Solar used as heater) An inline diode fixed that setup. For that reason I did mount a diode on every panel. Yes; I loose a tiny portion of the solar harvest, but save the panels from disaster. I am using a ready made inline diode mounted in MC4 connectors. I am also using the "MC4" connectors on all my panels. Easy to plug unplug etc. On the wire routed to the regulator I am also using inline fuse to protect the cables (RV / boat).
MC4 connectors I also bought in bags. Makes life easy on the road if any need to be replaced. Also need crimp tool. Check out the links for the MC4; Regards Jan
www.aliexpress.com/item/5-PCS-Lot-High-quality-IP67-MC4-diode-connector-solar-diode-connector-used-for-Solar/32780658546.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.1.4a7941e2IjSQpy&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10065_10068_319_10059_10884_317_10887_10696_100031_321_322_10084_453_10083_454_10103_10618_10307_538_537_536,searchweb201603_1,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=7d8e4831-a61f-4aaf-b0ec-0d89eefaee10-0&algo_pvid=7d8e4831-a61f-4aaf-b0ec-0d89eefaee10
www.aliexpress.com/item/1pcsFuse-Holder-Protective-MC4-Connector-Fuse-protection-1000-VDC-Male-to-Fem-PV-Photovoltaic-Solar-Diode/32848494238.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.16.4a7941e2IjSQpy&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10065_10068_319_10059_10884_317_10887_10696_100031_321_322_10084_453_10083_454_10103_10618_10307_538_537_536,searchweb201603_1,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=7d8e4831-a61f-4aaf-b0ec-0d89eefaee10-2&algo_pvid=7d8e4831-a61f-4aaf-b0ec-0d89eefaee10
www.aliexpress.com/item/MC4-Crimping-tool-for-MC4-connector-solar-cable-PV-Crimp-tools-DIY-solar-power-system-connect/32734262499.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.109.27c253ee5GMkj5&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10065_10068_319_10059_10884_317_10887_10696_100031_321_322_10084_453_10083_454_10103_10618_10307_537_536,searchweb201603_1,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=9aed1c94-a27d-4a61-8789-1f7819f03580-15&algo_pvid=9aed1c94-a27d-4a61-8789-1f7819f03580
@@RyanSophieSailing Looks like CZcams removed my links for the products and some text. I use a ready made MC4 INLINE DIODE (can be bought in several sizes like 10-15-30 A) . I will send the links as email.
Can Sophie make a video where she just says Fridge over n over
Hahaha! I laughed :) /Sophie
Why didn't you just install inspection hatches 🤦
soooooooo much work for 400 watts. my head is spinning.
Yeah...it was a lot of work. But I'm glad I did it.
Lmao
Just kinda slapped the panels up there, no perma-bond or EPDM tape or sealant for the panels. It's not like your rv will be near water. Oh wait..............
Hi Eric. Yes, there is 3m bonding tape and a lot of it there is also sealant around the panels. Ryan
Fun but no real instructions unfortunately.
All filler… cutesy music video
Normally a great channel, this video needs work. No idea really what you did.
To be fair.. this was one of our first tech videos we ever put out... like 2 years ago. It is episode number 4 and Sophie didn’t even know how to use her camera back then 😅. Ryan