lol at cute Skillshare promo! thanks for finally putting out a basic "tuning" video...i've enjoyed a lot of your episodes including your explanations of synthetic rigging, but always thought it was odd that "The Rigging Doctor" channel was sparse on the "tuning" instructional. Seems pretty straightforward, i always enjoy your videos! thanks so much.
Very clear and understandable instruction on tuning ones’ rigging. You’re a good teacher Herbie, or was that the bird sharing his/her wisdom? Keep it coming Sir. KISS the baby and Maddie for good measure for letting out of the house for boating joy though briefly; it’s rewarding all the way around. Take care.
Over tight fore and aft at rest can be very bad news on a lightly built boat as it will make her sag and this can open up the keel to hull joint -I've seen it first hand!
nice. the frigging rigging doctor is back. this is why I found you and this is what I love. This mast situation is why I want to build a gaff rig that would allow me to rotate the mast and turn "bend" into "rake" over time, and it's why the brits planted norfolk pines across the globe in case they needed new masts or mast heads or spars. It's cool to see you adjusting dyneema after (7?) years when you imagine hemp or manila would have needed adjusting pretty much constantly. I have to admit that was the least annoying skillshare plug I've seen yet, although sailing uma had some decent ones too. Maybe someday I'll get a credit card. Is there a reason you don't fish? Tight lines are good lines.
We do fish, we just don’t catch 🤣 It’s good to be back to our roots, we are going to start putting out rigging and Dyneema videos on Thursday’s now along with the regular Vlog stories on Sunday. The Dyneema has held up really well over the years, this was my first rig tune in 3 years and it was only off by about a millimeter (but that 1mm makes the stay go slack). Gaff rigs really are the best setup 😉
@@RiggingDoctor yeah and there's something about the red sails... you know "how to sail oceans", right? I'm working on my hobie 16 and I'll sea you if you get to the wet coast! If you pass through keep a lookout for juvenile great whites. They're idiots and even kill but don't eat seabirds. They're just learning. if you see a 16 to 22 you're fine, she's a female with experience and has no interest in you. That's why I got the hobie. my 7 foot kayak isn't ideal. I have to land the fish in between my legs, if you know what I'm getting at, and sharks aren't my favorite.
@@RiggingDoctor that's not really that important. I don't use those things anymore. of course covid doesn't help, but in general I mentally and sexually hibernate for years until I meet the right person, but when I know I know. It was cool to see on sailing fair isle that you fell in love at first sight (maybe smell too?). that's just how it works for me. extra socializing has nothing to do with it. what IS important about kayak fishing and accidentally landing sharks is your femoral arteries. those are hard to fix in a pinch and get back to shore. another reason I got the hobie. I've caught a few sharks that alerted me to this problematic scenario. It's just not fun. I'm looking at different anchor options that will hold fast and allow me to just get way out there and loosen up and point into the wind and fish, with a platform to land them on. You've been an inspiration, both of you, so thank you very much. Give us more shots of the art under the waterline next time you see porpoises, please!
Not too easily. I’m assuming that the upper shrouds chainplate is aft of the lower shrouds chainplate, whereby pulling them tight will bend the mast aft. If you have aft swept spreaders, the tension from the upper shrouds on the spreaders will push the middle section of the mast forward to create bend. If the spreaders go straight to the side, it’s going to be really hard to get bend in the mast.
Our triple swept back spreader mast has the cap shrouds tightened to 15-20% of the 12 mm wires breaking strength, the lowers are just hand tight, thought you’d find that interesting
Using a weight on the main halyard is _not_ the correct way to set the lateral masthead centring IMO. Take the main halyard down to the chainplate on one side and cleat off when it touches the shroud plate under your weight pulling down. The take it over to the other side to measure the difference. Adjust until both sides are the same. Mast aft prebend is normal and is usually a couple of inches on your size boat but should be _set to match sail cut_. More prebend helps pull the draft forward which is important for balance and efficiency going to windward. But if the sail has a really bad shape due to age there's no cure but recutting. For in mast furling then mast needs to be straight (as you noted) and as the sail blows out with age the furling will get very difficult so it will need recutting sooner. Rake moves the centre of effort fore and aft to set the boat balance. If you have too much weather helm when the boat is beating in a moderate breeze with a little heel on try altering rake. Modern boats with wide sterns can develop a lot of weather helm as they heel -this can't be fixed by rake -so set the rake for a balanced helm when the boat is not heeling much and try to set sails for a flatter boat when the wind pick up. Sailing with a lot of helm on both is slow and tiring for the helmsman and hard on auto helms. It is important not to have any hint of lee helm when beating. If you hold the helm neutral in a light breeze on flat water the boat should round up only very slowly or ideally hold course. You should expect a bit of weather helm in a stronger breeze and the extra lift from the rudder is a benefit (but that's maybe moving toward racing trim goals). Increasing weather helm is a sign that you need to think about a reef in the main (or at least let the main down on the traveler). Assuming you haven't made the mistake of having your head sail sheeting position too far inboard (as I've seen on wisdom a couple of times) and closed the slot too much, a small bubble in luff of the main is OK, the accelerated flow from the headsail sill creates good windward drive from the main. If the bubble get too big you need to reduce fore triangle area. The foresail should be furled/reefed to regain boat balance. The back stay tension controls foresail sag and too much sag really hurts going to windward. Forestay sag can make roller furling really hard to operate so make sure the backstay is on if you want to adjust the roller. Waggling the shrouds to decide if they are tight enough is not really what a proper rigger would do but most people don't have a tension gauge so here's a rough guide (YMMV): If you push out on the lower hard and the mast gets a visible bend to that side the opposite lower is not tight enough. Adjust both sides to the same tension by their feel. The tension in the aft lower (if there is one) should only be slightly less than the forward lower to limit mast pumping. Then go and sail in a good breeze and inspect mast/sail shapes and adjust accordingly. I've not talked about mast chocks here but if you have them set the mast and then chock. HTH
These are all very good points! The reason I prefer to check the athwartship position of the mast using a plumb over measuring to the chainplates is that the chainplates never are perfectly symmetrical. Therefore the halyard won’t actually line up perfectly to the port and starboard chainplates because the actual distances will be off by a few mm at best, or several inches at worst! When making new rigging, a common mistake people make is to only measure one side and then build both sides of stays based on that measurement assuming that their boat is perfectly symmetrical, only to then be informed of the reality when they go to install the new standing rigging. As for the tension, I only use a gauge if there are manufacturer specifications, and I only use a Loos gauge to get to the minimum setting (that way I don’t set the rig too slack and therefore cause damage). Once the minimum tensions are set, I complete the tune by feel and the feel is from giving the stays a wiggle. On older cruising boat rigs or low stress rigs with lateral spreaders, I know the feel of too loose vs tight enough and tension accordingly. Once the minimum tension has been achieved, I continue to tune until the mast is in column and ready to go. For rake, if there is no manufacturer specs, the starting point is to set the front of the masthead directly behind the heel of the mast step. This is achieved by hanging a weight on the halyard and measuring the distance it hangs aft of the mast at the gooseneck. After this, a test sail will confirm if it needs to go a bit forward or aft from there. I am curious with the sheeting angles when you said that the jib is too far inboard. Is the sail in concern the staysail or the headsail? I ask because I would like to correct this issue and I’m not always looking at the main bubble when beating as tightly to windward in high winds, so I am appreciative of your close eye catching these details. The staysail track is ridiculously inboard to allow enough slot for the headsail to be flown at the same time while going to windward by being sheeted to the toerail. The issue is the sails still interact in a negative form and results in us dropping one of them to improve the performance of the other. With a reefed sail plan, the staysail can trim in much tighter and allow us to point higher than the headsail can, so we do use it when sailing very close to the wind. I plan to remedy this rather restrictive sheeting angle by switching the track to floating rings which will allow trim of fore aft as well as athwartship. At the moment I am only able to go more outboard by using a barber haul. Thank you for your input!
They are the easiest to make for because they are the lowest tension needed and the least finicky. If you have knees on your mast, you can make big splices that will go over the spar and hook onto them. Otherwise, it’s just like a regular rig. (But do use chafe sleeves as gaffers have a lot of parts that will lay against the rig and chafe them if they are not protected)
For aft swept spreaders, the rigging needs to be much tighter. Loose rigging on that kind of rig can become catastrophic as the mast could pop forward! Great question 😉
Seems to me that a weight hung from the halyard would only line up with the mast if the boat wasn't heeled to one side. Wouldn't checking for heel be the first step?
The boat should be loaded so that it rests level, but if the boat does have a list, getting the list straight will be the first step followed by everything of this video :)
You are correct. That is why any competent rigger will use a tape measure..... not a can of gas. I can guarantee you, you will never buy feel get the boat perfectly level of you are standing and moving on it
I use level gauges to get the trim set. On smaller or lighter boats, I have to measure the head to the chainplates or head to toerail as my weight will cause it to shift, but on a very heavy, heavy displacement sailboat, a single human has very little effect. Our RM30 is about 40,000 pounds, so my little 170 pound body standing right next to the mast won’t have much of an effect on the boats trim. Put me on a tender 24’ and it’s going all over the place!
@@RiggingDoctor Once, at the end of a day sail on a Catalina 16.5, there were two of us tieing up the mainsail after having tied to the dock.. It was a small boat, so we were each standing on the cockpit coaming. She stepped off onto the dock. The centerboard was up. I took a swim.
Ouch! I’ve gotten spoiled with Wisdom. She’s so heavy that it feels like stepping onto a fixed pier! When I get on smaller boats (or even our Alberg 30) I’m always shocked at how far my foot goes down after stepping onto the deck before the boat stops going down under my foot!
Hello, "looser is less stress on the rig", I thought preloading the rig was actually better considering fatigue failure. With preload and as long as the two cap shrouds stay tensioned (usually until 15 kts upwind), the additional tension due to the wind is divided by 2. Half of the tension is tensionning the upwind cap shroud and the other half is detensioning the leeward cap shroud. What is your opinion about this method of tuning the rig ?
Looser is less stress because the strain at rest is less, which is how a boat spends most of its time. The problem with loose is if you jibe hard, you will shock load the rig and the shock load will me incredibly high. If you plan to do a lot of banging around, a tighter rig will be safer. For long sails on the same tack where jibes are rare to occur, keeping the tension as low as possible is fine. As for the idea that tension will go to the leeward shroud, the truth is when the sail is pulling the boat over, only the windward shroud is opposing it. The leeward shroud is either not working because it is loose or it is pulling the mast to leeward as well and adding to the strain on the windward shroud.
@@RiggingDoctor Thank you for your answer. I understand your point of view. However with a conventional stainless steel rig I confess I will keep my cap shrouds preloaded. Fair winds !
Depends on what the designer intended -usually they are nearly parallel but if she's sailed routinely with beyond design heel the rake on both masts may be adjusted to ease weather helm (NB reefing the mizzen has a strong effect on weather helm). If the mizzen has a lot more rake than the main could the triatic stay be wrong? You should consult the rigging plans if possible.
@@SpiralDiving In respect to "Heel "She's a full length keel and I really liked what Herbie said a few years ago about when they reef, he claimed that due to the fact that they sail with thought given to comfort they are governed by 15 degrees, not wind speed and I really like that mindset. Though I don't know what the previous owner did.
@@SpiralDiving I forgot to say, There is no triatic stay and I don't want one, I heard if you have one and you loose the main mast, it will take the mizzen with it if you have the joining cable.
I have fractional rig with single cap shrouds and single lower shrouds. I tensioned cap shrouds to 15% breaking load and there is still no prebend. So when I tighten just a little lower shrouds mast bends backwards. How can I get some prebend?
You can try setting the headstay and then tightening the backstay to get it to bend a bit. The lever arm that forms between the headstay and backstay will cause the mast to bend backwards at the top and be pulled forward a little bit down (depending what fraction you have). By the way, if you have aft swept spreaders, you want to set the cap shrouds to 25%.
@@RiggingDoctor My boats are from the seventies. I can't even find specs like that! Thanks for taking the time to make the video and for the reply. I was glad to see that Charlie is taking the time to learn the rigging too!
Boats from that era are very straight forward to tune. Modern race boats are the only ones that really need a tension gauge to start the setup (if the cap shrouds are not tight enough, the mast will snap forward in an inversion and break!) our older rig designs were made when materials science couldn’t push the envelope as far as it can today so everything was stouter and easier to setup/maintain.
@@RiggingDoctor I'm planning to replace the standing rigging on my 37' Vaitses/Herreshoff Meadowlark ketch, this winter. It's an odd boat. Mainmast is only 28', the masts are on tabernacles, and depending upon where I'm sailing may need to come down and up multiple times in a season. I've been pondering over the lower terminations, what I could do that could easily be loosened then retightened easily.
The combination of deadeyes and turnbuckles will be excellent. You have the turnbuckle loosened all the way and simply tighten the lashing as best you can by hand, then tension with the turnbuckle. The stays will be able to get longer to allow the mast to lean forward as you lower it, but will never need to be disconnected. Dyneema is great for this purpose because the line is soft on your deck and ok with bending whereas steel is rather hard on the deck gear. Lowering is easy, tensioning after raising is quick and easy as well.
Okay, so I came here because my boat is "listing" to starboard roughly 3 degrees when I stand dead center. I am not sure if it is my weight distribution or if it is the mast. But I don't carry very heavy stuff on my boat and I tried to evenly contribute weight. How can I tell the difference so I can address the problem?
Does it list when you are not on the boat? If the boat is level with you off the boat, you can hang the weight and look at it from a distance, making adjustments and then stepping on the dock to check the adjustments. If the boat is rather tender, you can use the halyard and run it to a point at the toe rail on the port side with the halyard really tight, then run it over to the same spot on the starboard side and see where the halyard reaches. This method uses geometry and therefore works on boats with an incurable list. If the mast head is centered, the halyard will come to the same point of the deck on both the port and starboard sides. If the mast is leaning towards one side, it will not come to the same point on the decks. For example: if the mast leans to starboard a few degrees and you run the halyard to the port spring cleat, on the starboard side the halyard will overshoot the starboard spring cleat. If you started on the starboard spring cleat, it won’t reach the port spring cleat. If the mast is centered, then it would reach both spring cleats and be tight in the process. The halyard to deck method uses geometry as the halyard becomes the hypotenuse in a right triangle and is not trim dependent, but also not as visually easy to do quickly. The weight hanging method gives you an instant visual answer to the position of the mast, but only works on heavy boats that don’t list much as you walk around them.
@@SpiralDiving I do have two batteries on starboard and the heads on starboard, too(the side it leans to) but the tanks are all centered, the engine is, too. On port I have the galley, cooking equipment, the gas bottle (although just 4.5kg), a few tools and foul weather clothes and a diesel heater mounted. Not sure if the keel is set wrong though. Would a mast, that leans too much to starboard have the boat list to starboard, too? I mean there has to be some weight to it, right? I have a 22ft boat on 3,5tons, with 660kg ballast. So I think if he mast would be off it might do that to the boat.
I’m assuming you have aft swept spreaders (and probably a fractional rig). The backstay tension becomes very important as it keeps the mast arced backwards, and the cap shrouds play the role of supporting side loads and inducing mast bend. If this is your case, the cap shrouds need to be tensioned to 20-25% of their breaking strength which is going to seem incredibly tight! But you need to do this as this is how the rig is designed.
Professional riggers put a LOT of tension on the shrouds to prevent the mast from slamming sideways with each tack (and gust). This slamming causes tension peaks which are more damaging than a stable high tension. Therefore, don't understand why you state that the rigging should be 'as loose as possible to prevent damage'.
Because I don’t let the mast slam. This is my own boat. I also have lateral spreaders so they can run slacker rigging. If you have aft swept spreaders then you need to have your rigging tensioned to 20-25% of the breading strength at all times or the mast will invert and be done! Having looser rigging means that all the fittings are stressed less and therefore won’t fatigue as early, making everything last longer, but only if you use it properly and have it setup correctly.
Now just hold on a minute... Shouldn't the athwartships centering be relative to the chainplates? I mean, with your method, the boat has to be floating exactly 'level' for the weight to be directly behind the mast when it's centered...
The boat should be floating level. Chainplates should be perfectly symmetrical but never are. A safer option if the boat is too tender or suffering from an incurable list is to use the halyard to toe rail method. The toe rail tends to be a bit more forgiving to the builder than the chainplate position and therefore a more accurate way to measure the mast position by geometry. To fix list, even temporarily to tune the mast, weight can be shifted and placed on the appropriate deck to level out the boat and then a weight hung to measure the mast in reality and not relying on the boat being symmetrical, because they never are actually perfectly symmetrical.
I don't get it. Hanging a weight on your halyard to use as a plumb bob........ while in the water, Waves? Boat list any? That would only work if you had her on the hard. The you would need to put a level on something square?? a traveler? Maybe the mast or mast support post in the cabin. Then you would need to fine tune the level of the whole boat. Adjusting boat stands (without getting squashed) or if it's on a trailer, doing something?
The halyard acts as a plumb bob and that tells you the position of the mast. The boat should not list, and if it does, that needs to be addressed prior to this. As for waves, pick a calm day.
Stronger and stronger materials are becoming available for masts. I see no reason for rigging anymore it is stressed before even raising a sail. On my 22 foot Galion 22 I am going for an unstayed mast with a dipping lug sail with at the most a movable stay on the leeward side.
For windward performance and reduced weight aloft, rigging is mandatory. For merry cruising and low stress rigs, a free standing mast gets the job done.
One sure way to lose your mast is to have loose rigging. While sailing you shouldn't see a slack shroud on the leeward side. Both port and starboard shrouds support the mast regardless of the tack you're on. A properly tensioned leeward shroud supports the windward side by transferring its rigidity through the spreaders to the windward side.
I would suggest contacting your mast manufacturer to ask for a manual and I would check the section about Rig Tension. I’m pretty certain that it will tell you that when sailing on a close reach in 25 knots of wind speed, the leeward shrouds must go slack. It will then go on to explain that if they don’t go slack in that situation, the rig is over tightened and the added stress will cause premature failure of the rigging. If I’m wrong, you now have written proof that you need to keep your stays bar tight and all is well 😎
This is the same guy who said mizzen masts have no effect on the sailing of a boat...... proof of you own your own camera, you can be an expert in their own mind
If the boat is properly trimmed in the water, gravity is of great assistance. If your boat is loaded unevenly, then you need to sort out your cargo distribution before you get underway (or even think about timing your rigging).
I think you should rewatch my video on Ketches and Yawls as you clearly misunderstood everything. I’m assuming (and this might be a stretch) that you understand the difference between a yawl and a ketch, as the mizzen in a yawl plays a much different role than the mizzen in a ketch.
If you just want a number and no explanation, you should look up the design specifications for your boat. If they don’t exist, then you need to know how and why which is what this video is for.
The first 1,000 people to use this link will get a 1 month free trial of Skillshare: skl.sh/riggingdoctor10211
My favorite....tutorials. Thanks Herby for your instructional videos. Maddie, thanks for catching all the right shots! Perfect Team!
You are both seriously impressive -- and thanks for taking the mystery out tuning standing rigging, Herbie.
You two are bonkers! ... in a good way :D
Best skillshare ad ever
Always appreciate the rigging explanations!
There’s more videos like this on their way!
lol at cute Skillshare promo! thanks for finally putting out a basic "tuning" video...i've enjoyed a lot of your episodes including your explanations of synthetic rigging, but always thought it was odd that "The Rigging Doctor" channel was sparse on the "tuning" instructional. Seems pretty straightforward, i always enjoy your videos! thanks so much.
This is the best information on rigging I’ve seen on CZcams, great job!
Thank you
Great video thanks for sharing
Best description of how to tune your rigging I've ever heard.
Awesome thanks!!
Very clear and understandable instruction on tuning ones’ rigging. You’re a good teacher Herbie, or was that the bird sharing his/her wisdom? Keep it coming Sir. KISS the baby and Maddie for good measure for letting out of the house for boating joy though briefly; it’s rewarding all the way around. Take care.
More sailing Wisdom. Love it, thanks, guys.
Thanks for teaching 👍 helps
Thank you! perfect timing. I'm just starting to re-rig my boat,. The old rigging is *very* tight. Skill share ad is awesome!
Thanks! Glad I could help :)
Over tight fore and aft at rest can be very bad news on a lightly built boat as it will make her sag and this can open up the keel to hull joint -I've seen it first hand!
Great video!
Thanks!
Many thanks… Very helpful
Glad it was helpful!
Nice video
😻😻the end
nice. the frigging rigging doctor is back. this is why I found you and this is what I love. This mast situation is why I want to build a gaff rig that would allow me to rotate the mast and turn "bend" into "rake" over time, and it's why the brits planted norfolk pines across the globe in case they needed new masts or mast heads or spars. It's cool to see you adjusting dyneema after (7?) years when you imagine hemp or manila would have needed adjusting pretty much constantly. I have to admit that was the least annoying skillshare plug I've seen yet, although sailing uma had some decent ones too. Maybe someday I'll get a credit card. Is there a reason you don't fish? Tight lines are good lines.
We do fish, we just don’t catch 🤣
It’s good to be back to our roots, we are going to start putting out rigging and Dyneema videos on Thursday’s now along with the regular Vlog stories on Sunday.
The Dyneema has held up really well over the years, this was my first rig tune in 3 years and it was only off by about a millimeter (but that 1mm makes the stay go slack).
Gaff rigs really are the best setup 😉
@@RiggingDoctor yeah and there's something about the red sails... you know "how to sail oceans", right? I'm working on my hobie 16 and I'll sea you if you get to the wet coast! If you pass through keep a lookout for juvenile great whites. They're idiots and even kill but don't eat seabirds. They're just learning. if you see a 16 to 22 you're fine, she's a female with experience and has no interest in you. That's why I got the hobie. my 7 foot kayak isn't ideal. I have to land the fish in between my legs, if you know what I'm getting at, and sharks aren't my favorite.
Haha! You don’t want the fish biting any worm-like things once it’s in the kayak!
@@RiggingDoctor that's not really that important. I don't use those things anymore. of course covid doesn't help, but in general I mentally and sexually hibernate for years until I meet the right person, but when I know I know. It was cool to see on sailing fair isle that you fell in love at first sight (maybe smell too?). that's just how it works for me. extra socializing has nothing to do with it. what IS important about kayak fishing and accidentally landing sharks is your femoral arteries. those are hard to fix in a pinch and get back to shore. another reason I got the hobie. I've caught a few sharks that alerted me to this problematic scenario. It's just not fun. I'm looking at different anchor options that will hold fast and allow me to just get way out there and loosen up and point into the wind and fish, with a platform to land them on. You've been an inspiration, both of you, so thank you very much. Give us more shots of the art under the waterline next time you see porpoises, please!
@@RiggingDoctor Gaff are great off the wind due to the huge control over twist etc. but in a blow with a lee shore I'd rather have a Bermudan sloop :)
I only have a single forestay and backstay. There is an upper and a lower shroud port and stbd. How can I control the mast bend with this setup?
Not too easily. I’m assuming that the upper shrouds chainplate is aft of the lower shrouds chainplate, whereby pulling them tight will bend the mast aft.
If you have aft swept spreaders, the tension from the upper shrouds on the spreaders will push the middle section of the mast forward to create bend.
If the spreaders go straight to the side, it’s going to be really hard to get bend in the mast.
Our triple swept back spreader mast has the cap shrouds tightened to 15-20% of the 12 mm wires breaking strength, the lowers are just hand tight, thought you’d find that interesting
Aft swept spreader rigs need much more tension. Lateral spreaders can run much lower tensions :)
@@RiggingDoctorwith aft swept spreaders the really tight caps induce pre-bend in the mast too
Using a weight on the main halyard is _not_ the correct way to set the lateral masthead centring IMO. Take the main halyard down to the chainplate on one side and cleat off when it touches the shroud plate under your weight pulling down. The take it over to the other side to measure the difference. Adjust until both sides are the same. Mast aft prebend is normal and is usually a couple of inches on your size boat but should be _set to match sail cut_. More prebend helps pull the draft forward which is important for balance and efficiency going to windward. But if the sail has a really bad shape due to age there's no cure but recutting. For in mast furling then mast needs to be straight (as you noted) and as the sail blows out with age the furling will get very difficult so it will need recutting sooner. Rake moves the centre of effort fore and aft to set the boat balance. If you have too much weather helm when the boat is beating in a moderate breeze with a little heel on try altering rake. Modern boats with wide sterns can develop a lot of weather helm as they heel -this can't be fixed by rake -so set the rake for a balanced helm when the boat is not heeling much and try to set sails for a flatter boat when the wind pick up. Sailing with a lot of helm on both is slow and tiring for the helmsman and hard on auto helms. It is important not to have any hint of lee helm when beating. If you hold the helm neutral in a light breeze on flat water the boat should round up only very slowly or ideally hold course. You should expect a bit of weather helm in a stronger breeze and the extra lift from the rudder is a benefit (but that's maybe moving toward racing trim goals). Increasing weather helm is a sign that you need to think about a reef in the main (or at least let the main down on the traveler). Assuming you haven't made the mistake of having your head sail sheeting position too far inboard (as I've seen on wisdom a couple of times) and closed the slot too much, a small bubble in luff of the main is OK, the accelerated flow from the headsail sill creates good windward drive from the main. If the bubble get too big you need to reduce fore triangle area. The foresail should be furled/reefed to regain boat balance. The back stay tension controls foresail sag and too much sag really hurts going to windward. Forestay sag can make roller furling really hard to operate so make sure the backstay is on if you want to adjust the roller. Waggling the shrouds to decide if they are tight enough is not really what a proper rigger would do but most people don't have a tension gauge so here's a rough guide (YMMV): If you push out on the lower hard and the mast gets a visible bend to that side the opposite lower is not tight enough. Adjust both sides to the same tension by their feel. The tension in the aft lower (if there is one) should only be slightly less than the forward lower to limit mast pumping. Then go and sail in a good breeze and inspect mast/sail shapes and adjust accordingly. I've not talked about mast chocks here but if you have them set the mast and then chock. HTH
These are all very good points!
The reason I prefer to check the athwartship position of the mast using a plumb over measuring to the chainplates is that the chainplates never are perfectly symmetrical. Therefore the halyard won’t actually line up perfectly to the port and starboard chainplates because the actual distances will be off by a few mm at best, or several inches at worst! When making new rigging, a common mistake people make is to only measure one side and then build both sides of stays based on that measurement assuming that their boat is perfectly symmetrical, only to then be informed of the reality when they go to install the new standing rigging.
As for the tension, I only use a gauge if there are manufacturer specifications, and I only use a Loos gauge to get to the minimum setting (that way I don’t set the rig too slack and therefore cause damage). Once the minimum tensions are set, I complete the tune by feel and the feel is from giving the stays a wiggle.
On older cruising boat rigs or low stress rigs with lateral spreaders, I know the feel of too loose vs tight enough and tension accordingly. Once the minimum tension has been achieved, I continue to tune until the mast is in column and ready to go.
For rake, if there is no manufacturer specs, the starting point is to set the front of the masthead directly behind the heel of the mast step. This is achieved by hanging a weight on the halyard and measuring the distance it hangs aft of the mast at the gooseneck. After this, a test sail will confirm if it needs to go a bit forward or aft from there.
I am curious with the sheeting angles when you said that the jib is too far inboard. Is the sail in concern the staysail or the headsail? I ask because I would like to correct this issue and I’m not always looking at the main bubble when beating as tightly to windward in high winds, so I am appreciative of your close eye catching these details.
The staysail track is ridiculously inboard to allow enough slot for the headsail to be flown at the same time while going to windward by being sheeted to the toerail. The issue is the sails still interact in a negative form and results in us dropping one of them to improve the performance of the other.
With a reefed sail plan, the staysail can trim in much tighter and allow us to point higher than the headsail can, so we do use it when sailing very close to the wind. I plan to remedy this rather restrictive sheeting angle by switching the track to floating rings which will allow trim of fore aft as well as athwartship. At the moment I am only able to go more outboard by using a barber haul.
Thank you for your input!
^^^ this guy knows what he is talking about^^^
i need to make a full set rig for gaffrig ketch. im going synthetic. steel masts. is there any tips for gaffrig
They are the easiest to make for because they are the lowest tension needed and the least finicky.
If you have knees on your mast, you can make big splices that will go over the spar and hook onto them. Otherwise, it’s just like a regular rig. (But do use chafe sleeves as gaffers have a lot of parts that will lay against the rig and chafe them if they are not protected)
If you have swept spreaders (shaped as a "V" angled to aft) does the standing rigging need to be loose in order to tighten the forestay?
For aft swept spreaders, the rigging needs to be much tighter. Loose rigging on that kind of rig can become catastrophic as the mast could pop forward!
Great question 😉
Brilliant video.also, with the parrot, omg, ...are you a descendant od Francis Drake😃
😁
great, sensible idea, im no expert, but this really makes sense,,, thanks a lot
Glad I could break it down into easier to an to understand format.
Lot of people giving advice on the internet. This guys got a parrot on his shoulder, he wins.
😎🦜
Thanks Herb.
How are the boats doing?
Seems to me that a weight hung from the halyard would only line up with the mast if the boat wasn't heeled to one side. Wouldn't checking for heel be the first step?
The boat should be loaded so that it rests level, but if the boat does have a list, getting the list straight will be the first step followed by everything of this video :)
You are correct. That is why any competent rigger will use a tape measure..... not a can of gas. I can guarantee you, you will never buy feel get the boat perfectly level of you are standing and moving on it
I use level gauges to get the trim set. On smaller or lighter boats, I have to measure the head to the chainplates or head to toerail as my weight will cause it to shift, but on a very heavy, heavy displacement sailboat, a single human has very little effect. Our RM30 is about 40,000 pounds, so my little 170 pound body standing right next to the mast won’t have much of an effect on the boats trim. Put me on a tender 24’ and it’s going all over the place!
@@RiggingDoctor Once, at the end of a day sail on a Catalina 16.5, there were two of us tieing up the mainsail after having tied to the dock.. It was a small boat, so we were each standing on the cockpit coaming. She stepped off onto the dock. The centerboard was up. I took a swim.
Ouch!
I’ve gotten spoiled with Wisdom. She’s so heavy that it feels like stepping onto a fixed pier! When I get on smaller boats (or even our Alberg 30) I’m always shocked at how far my foot goes down after stepping onto the deck before the boat stops going down under my foot!
Hello, "looser is less stress on the rig", I thought preloading the rig was actually better considering fatigue failure. With preload and as long as the two cap shrouds stay tensioned (usually until 15 kts upwind), the additional tension due to the wind is divided by 2. Half of the tension is tensionning the upwind cap shroud and the other half is detensioning the leeward cap shroud. What is your opinion about this method of tuning the rig ?
Looser is less stress because the strain at rest is less, which is how a boat spends most of its time.
The problem with loose is if you jibe hard, you will shock load the rig and the shock load will me incredibly high. If you plan to do a lot of banging around, a tighter rig will be safer. For long sails on the same tack where jibes are rare to occur, keeping the tension as low as possible is fine.
As for the idea that tension will go to the leeward shroud, the truth is when the sail is pulling the boat over, only the windward shroud is opposing it. The leeward shroud is either not working because it is loose or it is pulling the mast to leeward as well and adding to the strain on the windward shroud.
@@RiggingDoctor Thank you for your answer. I understand your point of view. However with a conventional stainless steel rig I confess I will keep my cap shrouds preloaded. Fair winds !
@@voilierpaikan9806 I also heard that tight is better. 2 deferent schools of thought here?
I just got a 1979 roberts 43'ketch. Do you know why the mizzen mast is raked backwards a bit sometimes?
It’s set that way to help out with sail balance. The mizzen is always raked back a bit more than the main is.
@@RiggingDoctor MUCH! Thanks.
Depends on what the designer intended -usually they are nearly parallel but if she's sailed routinely with beyond design heel the rake on both masts may be adjusted to ease weather helm (NB reefing the mizzen has a strong effect on weather helm). If the mizzen has a lot more rake than the main could the triatic stay be wrong? You should consult the rigging plans if possible.
@@SpiralDiving In respect to "Heel "She's a full length keel and I really liked what Herbie said a few years ago about when they reef, he claimed that due to the fact that they sail with thought given to comfort they are governed by 15 degrees, not wind speed and I really like that mindset. Though I don't know what the previous owner did.
@@SpiralDiving I forgot to say, There is no triatic stay and I don't want one, I heard if you have one and you loose the main mast, it will take the mizzen with it if you have the joining cable.
I have fractional rig with single cap shrouds and single lower shrouds. I tensioned cap shrouds to 15% breaking load and there is still no prebend. So when I tighten just a little lower shrouds mast bends backwards. How can I get some prebend?
You can try setting the headstay and then tightening the backstay to get it to bend a bit. The lever arm that forms between the headstay and backstay will cause the mast to bend backwards at the top and be pulled forward a little bit down (depending what fraction you have).
By the way, if you have aft swept spreaders, you want to set the cap shrouds to 25%.
@@RiggingDoctor Thank you for an answer. Yes I have aft swept speaders. 25% is a lot. I am afraid to breake something..
What size seizing wire do you use?
This is the one I use: amzn.to/3BZDRHY
It’s 0.041” by Loos
How often do you need to adjust the rigging?
I gave it a tune for the first time in 3 years after our second transatlantic passage. It holds its tune very well
Thanks for the run through on rigging. It seems like a tension gauge isn't needed! Fair winds!
You only need a gauge if you are setting it up based on manufacturer’s specs, but after that the final tune is done by feel ;)
@@RiggingDoctor My boats are from the seventies. I can't even find specs like that! Thanks for taking the time to make the video and for the reply. I was glad to see that Charlie is taking the time to learn the rigging too!
Boats from that era are very straight forward to tune. Modern race boats are the only ones that really need a tension gauge to start the setup (if the cap shrouds are not tight enough, the mast will snap forward in an inversion and break!) our older rig designs were made when materials science couldn’t push the envelope as far as it can today so everything was stouter and easier to setup/maintain.
@@RiggingDoctor I'm planning to replace the standing rigging on my 37' Vaitses/Herreshoff Meadowlark ketch, this winter.
It's an odd boat. Mainmast is only 28', the masts are on tabernacles, and depending upon where I'm sailing may need to come down and up multiple times in a season.
I've been pondering over the lower terminations, what I could do that could easily be loosened then retightened easily.
The combination of deadeyes and turnbuckles will be excellent. You have the turnbuckle loosened all the way and simply tighten the lashing as best you can by hand, then tension with the turnbuckle. The stays will be able to get longer to allow the mast to lean forward as you lower it, but will never need to be disconnected. Dyneema is great for this purpose because the line is soft on your deck and ok with bending whereas steel is rather hard on the deck gear.
Lowering is easy, tensioning after raising is quick and easy as well.
Okay, so I came here because my boat is "listing" to starboard roughly 3 degrees when I stand dead center. I am not sure if it is my weight distribution or if it is the mast. But I don't carry very heavy stuff on my boat and I tried to evenly contribute weight.
How can I tell the difference so I can address the problem?
Does it list when you are not on the boat? If the boat is level with you off the boat, you can hang the weight and look at it from a distance, making adjustments and then stepping on the dock to check the adjustments.
If the boat is rather tender, you can use the halyard and run it to a point at the toe rail on the port side with the halyard really tight, then run it over to the same spot on the starboard side and see where the halyard reaches.
This method uses geometry and therefore works on boats with an incurable list. If the mast head is centered, the halyard will come to the same point of the deck on both the port and starboard sides. If the mast is leaning towards one side, it will not come to the same point on the decks. For example: if the mast leans to starboard a few degrees and you run the halyard to the port spring cleat, on the starboard side the halyard will overshoot the starboard spring cleat. If you started on the starboard spring cleat, it won’t reach the port spring cleat. If the mast is centered, then it would reach both spring cleats and be tight in the process.
The halyard to deck method uses geometry as the halyard becomes the hypotenuse in a right triangle and is not trim dependent, but also not as visually easy to do quickly. The weight hanging method gives you an instant visual answer to the position of the mast, but only works on heavy boats that don’t list much as you walk around them.
That's a lot of list. Check the position of tanks and batteries but it could be your keel was set wrong -I've seen it happen :0
@@RiggingDoctor Cheers mate. You are always so helpful! :)
@@SpiralDiving I do have two batteries on starboard and the heads on starboard, too(the side it leans to) but the tanks are all centered, the engine is, too.
On port I have the galley, cooking equipment, the gas bottle (although just 4.5kg), a few tools and foul weather clothes and a diesel heater mounted.
Not sure if the keel is set wrong though.
Would a mast, that leans too much to starboard have the boat list to starboard, too? I mean there has to be some weight to it, right?
I have a 22ft boat on 3,5tons, with 660kg ballast. So I think if he mast would be off it might do that to the boat.
What if your boat doesn’t have any forward lowers or baby stays? Anything you should be looking out for?
What kinda boat ?
I’m assuming you have aft swept spreaders (and probably a fractional rig).
The backstay tension becomes very important as it keeps the mast arced backwards, and the cap shrouds play the role of supporting side loads and inducing mast bend.
If this is your case, the cap shrouds need to be tensioned to 20-25% of their breaking strength which is going to seem incredibly tight! But you need to do this as this is how the rig is designed.
@@jonathanshore5768 spirit 6.5, it's an odd rig, masthead trailer sailor, deck-stepped, inline spreaders. no baby stays.
Professional riggers put a LOT of tension on the shrouds to prevent the mast from slamming sideways with each tack (and gust). This slamming causes tension peaks which are more damaging than a stable high tension. Therefore, don't understand why you state that the rigging should be 'as loose as possible to prevent damage'.
Because I don’t let the mast slam. This is my own boat. I also have lateral spreaders so they can run slacker rigging. If you have aft swept spreaders then you need to have your rigging tensioned to 20-25% of the breading strength at all times or the mast will invert and be done!
Having looser rigging means that all the fittings are stressed less and therefore won’t fatigue as early, making everything last longer, but only if you use it properly and have it setup correctly.
✔️
👍👍👍
nice parot ^^
👍!!!
Now just hold on a minute... Shouldn't the athwartships centering be relative to the chainplates? I mean, with your method, the boat has to be floating exactly 'level' for the weight to be directly behind the mast when it's centered...
Yes, even small 1 degree list will cause the weight to move far off the centreline (8 inches in a 40 foot mast).
The boat should be floating level.
Chainplates should be perfectly symmetrical but never are. A safer option if the boat is too tender or suffering from an incurable list is to use the halyard to toe rail method. The toe rail tends to be a bit more forgiving to the builder than the chainplate position and therefore a more accurate way to measure the mast position by geometry.
To fix list, even temporarily to tune the mast, weight can be shifted and placed on the appropriate deck to level out the boat and then a weight hung to measure the mast in reality and not relying on the boat being symmetrical, because they never are actually perfectly symmetrical.
I don't get it. Hanging a weight on your halyard to use as a plumb bob........ while in the water, Waves? Boat list any? That would only work if you had her on the hard. The you would need to put a level on something square?? a traveler? Maybe the mast or mast support post in the cabin. Then you would need to fine tune the level of the whole boat. Adjusting boat stands (without getting squashed) or if it's on a trailer, doing something?
The halyard acts as a plumb bob and that tells you the position of the mast.
The boat should not list, and if it does, that needs to be addressed prior to this. As for waves, pick a calm day.
Stronger and stronger materials are becoming available for masts. I see no reason for rigging anymore it is stressed before even raising a sail. On my 22 foot Galion 22 I am going for an unstayed mast with a dipping lug sail with at the most a movable stay on the leeward side.
For windward performance and reduced weight aloft, rigging is mandatory. For merry cruising and low stress rigs, a free standing mast gets the job done.
@RiggingDoctor Carbon fiber.
One sure way to lose your mast is to have loose rigging. While sailing you shouldn't see a slack shroud on the leeward side. Both port and starboard shrouds support the mast regardless of the tack you're on. A properly tensioned leeward shroud supports the windward side by transferring its rigidity through the spreaders to the windward side.
That’s an interesting take on over tensioning your rigging.
I would suggest contacting your mast manufacturer to ask for a manual and I would check the section about Rig Tension. I’m pretty certain that it will tell you that when sailing on a close reach in 25 knots of wind speed, the leeward shrouds must go slack.
It will then go on to explain that if they don’t go slack in that situation, the rig is over tightened and the added stress will cause premature failure of the rigging.
If I’m wrong, you now have written proof that you need to keep your stays bar tight and all is well 😎
How tight? Tight to the eye, slack to the hand. That’s how tight
I like that concept.
I swear I saw this video about a month ago?
Not unless you’re a patron!
That was the video about rake
Yep, I was going to make it one long video about rake and tuning but it was just too confusing a video so I split them up into two videos.
:)
😉
I’m a bird
LOL so much wrong in this video, turned off as soon he started using gravity on a boat at anchor LOL.
You should really watch all of it..... it is a great lesson in what not to do
This is the same guy who said mizzen masts have no effect on the sailing of a boat...... proof of you own your own camera, you can be an expert in their own mind
If the boat is properly trimmed in the water, gravity is of great assistance. If your boat is loaded unevenly, then you need to sort out your cargo distribution before you get underway (or even think about timing your rigging).
@Camden Simon 🤣 you either go through a ton of diesel every season or don’t take your boat out
I think you should rewatch my video on Ketches and Yawls as you clearly misunderstood everything.
I’m assuming (and this might be a stretch) that you understand the difference between a yawl and a ketch, as the mizzen in a yawl plays a much different role than the mizzen in a ketch.
0:46 any national flag should be treated with respect. Your flag is faded and torn.
We replace it every chance we get, but US flags are hard to find on the ocean while cruising.
Or build a chinese junk, which has no rigging nor need of it.
They are incredibly simple setups that sadly are not more common
Crap ... too much talking.
If you just want a number and no explanation, you should look up the design specifications for your boat. If they don’t exist, then you need to know how and why which is what this video is for.