Reviews Are Weird
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- čas přidán 7. 11. 2023
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Wow (Marvel Disney Movie) got a (insert metacritic score here)! I bet that means its (of undefined quality)!
I've always found reviews to be a bit odd. The idea of a 10/10 on IGN denoting something as an instant masterpiece doesn't really jive with me any more.
Recently some games have gotten reviews that I personally disagree with, but that doesn't mean they're "wrong", and today I wanted to talk about that. - Hry
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sus.
I guess u needed money this month 😂, but thanks for the vid
🦃
My god, you have stumbled across a sentiment that's impacted how I've felt about games for years without realizing it: "This game would be so much better if I had more time to play video games."
Anecdotally, I think this is why most "hobbyists" will find a couple of niche reviewers who enjoy content similar to their tastes. At some point, you understand what you do and do not like, and how this can impact your personal enjoyment of a game or movie.
I think there's an interesting conversation behind "tropes" and how they affect review scores. Everyone has a few tropes they absolutely hate, or love, or otherwise have no strong feelings about. JRPGs can be a cesspool of redundant tropes and yet I'll keep playing (and enjoying) most of them, because I have brain damage.
Scott the wozniak
Agreed. That's one of my biggest pet peeves - a "X/10" is worthless if you like weirder/more polarizing stuff. Some of my favorite games are 75-80/100 on Metacritic. Some of my favorite books are 3-3.5 stars on Goodreads. One of my favorite comedies has a _13%_ on Rotten Tomatoes. I don't want to play games that 90+% of critics rate 8+/10, I want to play games that _I'll_ probably like.
There are "collaborative" recommendation algorithms that say "you liked X, these guys like X AND Y, so you'll like Y". Netflix and Steam both do that, but only for stuff in their systems. It's practically just the automatic version of what you said. But all the "media review" sites (aggregators, plus Goodreads, RateYourMusic, etc) just use one single numerical score to judge quality.
There really should be sites that use "you like X" data to recommend stuff. I actually made a recommendation system for video games for a class, and I still want to revisit that sometime. I still have the data that I scraped.
I wish I could find a reviewer who has similar tastes in games. No one out there is repping Social Sims and weird experimental sh"t first and formost.
There are reviewers I like. But not for the games they reccomend. What level of niche do I count as?
I think we need reviews of reviews so we can know if reviewers reviews reviewed good
who reviews the reviewer?
What really worked was how some old video game magazines had multiple reviewers per game. So you'd get three different perspectives on a title and the reviewer had a section to tell you about them and what games they are currently enjoying. I think a system like that would really help IGN as nobody really knows the IGN reviewers and the reviews simply come off as a faceless "IGN." Also they need to add back in the decimal point. A 7.0 and a 7.9 can be a big difference. Modern reviews come off as lazy and that's why I like Gameranx.
I think those are what the angry comments are for in every review video or article
@@Gatorade69 Decimal points are an abstraction that lacks meaning. I already consider a point system of 1 to 10 with too much variables, movies and films were done 1 to 4 stars until some time ago and now go 1 to 5. There is some margin of consistency and usefulness in separating a 3 star from a 5 star from a 1 star stuff, but what is the difference between a 5 and a 6 points game, and what in high heavens would be the distinction between a 6.3 and a 6.4 game-film-whatever ?
@@baraodascolinas979 I totally get your point.
I was really talking about in IGN's case everyone bashes on them for giving almost everything a 7. The Decimal point is one way to avoid that. 7 is average, which most games are and I feel the decimal point, which they used to use, could be a way to stop people calling them 7GN. Lie nobody clowned on them for rating every game the same when they had the decimal point system.
And Like I said if 7 is average 7.9, not quite 8, would mean a bit more than average. I feel it just gives a little more input, but then again that's just my opinion.
Personally I like reviews that forgo the ratings system entirely.
I humbly request more vids from this channel.
I humbly request more comments from your channel
As a welder with about 1-2 and a half hours of free time. I gotta say, Souls and Monhan are the BOMB when I wanna game!
Audio cuts out around 11 minutes
yeah, my bad thanks. TONS of issues with my editing software all week, I'll trim that part out
so it's just gonna be cut out?@@Whimsu
if you cut from 12:00 to 12:04 almost feels like an intentional dramatic cut.@@Whimsu
yeah sadly I can't reupload vids on CZcams, but to be honest it's probably for the best.
There's a LOT on that topic I want to cover that could probably make for a full vid
lmao
I've never really put much stock in review scores. There are countless films that are rated "bad" that I thought were great. I view scores more as a way to tell if a movie is shot competently and has a story that feels as if it says something. Even then, there are plenty of movies that aren't amazingly shot (a lot of horror movies fit here) but are still fantastic because of the amateurishness (like The Texas Chain Saw Massacre). If I were to put a score to a review, I'd rather have a thumbs up or down. Since reviews are subjective, a thumbs or down might be a recommendation from that particular reviewer. I try to find reviewers who generally like the same movies I do when I look for recommendations. In addition, I also follow some that recommend things I might not ever think about because I'm always trying to find weird and unique movies. I've seen enough generic shit to hold me for my life. I find enjoyment in things that almost make me feel uncomfortable. I just recently watched Ari Aster's Beau Is Afraid. I had some gripes with the movie as I thought it had some material which didn't really need to be in the film, but overall I enjoyed it because of how utterly bizarre it was.
My favorite is the argument that how much money a movie made somehow determines how good it is. For example, I’ll say I didn’t like a film and somebody will try to counter with “Well it made $X at the box office!”. By that logic, Avatar is the greatest movie ever made, the Force Awakens is the best Star Wars, and Jurassic World is better than Jurassic Park. Absolutely useless metric.
I agree with almost everything but on 10:40 you say that reviews are not a great indication of much. I’d argue that reviews actually are a good indication of whether you’ll like something or not, if we take your Grammies example, the albums that do well usually appeal to the largest demographic, so a good film score should tell you if you are likely to like a film or not, the higher the score, the more likely that it that you will find something to enjoy in there
yeah, good parsing of the logic on this. I think the real risk is that by heeding mass-appeal reviews only, you’re likely to find something to enjoy in all the games you play, but might miss what could’ve been the most profound gaming experience of YOUR life just because it only appealed to a small niche of consumers.
@@icelaenl I absolutely agree. I think mass-appeal reviews help people find new niches, like how many people got into RPGs as a genre because of the mass-appeal reviews of Elder Scrolls 3 and 4. I think once you’ve found your niche however, most people will look for reviews from people within that community. For example, if you really love cosy games, you’d probably more likely heed a review of a new game from someone who’s also really into that niche, rather than an IGN review. Me for example, I haven’t bothered with a lot of new COD games even tho they do well on IGN, because reviewers from the niche that I enjoy (more old school shooters) overwhelmingly said it’s not for them, therefore I can extrapolate that it’s probably also not for me
I'd argue a high score review isn't necessarily an indication you'll like the work, but more of an indication you probably won't hate it.
I only consume reviews that actually explain the game and let me decide myself if this might be smth for me or not. An arbitrary number means jack shait. I want to know how a game works, stuff that doesnt work well and gameplay mechanics. A reviewer doesnt know what i like.
There's so many games on the Metacritic Must Play that have not aged well.
With the one piece thing are you referring to the drum island bit where luffy and sanji are trying to eat him and it lasts like 4 to 6 episodes because plot of the other characters is being shown and the 2 to four minutes each episode being shown of luffy and his group were indeed chopper running around in circles or something else? That's the only thing I can think of canonically that chopper does anything like run around for two hours. I think in the manga it's a bit better paced as that same couple of chapters covering that same bit is 2 to 4 pages of a 15 to 20 page manga and reading it bingewise is easier to digest as that two to four pages never takes four minutes to read and is often the bit you read for barely over a minute so it doesn't feel nearly as drawn out as 2 to 4 minutes in every episode focusing on the same shit.
you thought to hard on this :D
I dont think tyler meant anything specific, but I mean, good interpretation
I ask simply to post more videos than streams, i know it is harder to edit, but most people don't have time for hours streams, and the viewer count after the stream won't rise like a video is mostly everlasting and can come up to trending and make your channel famous
This was a phenomenal video, script was really insightful while also stating an obvious we don't consider much. I think all reviews in any media should probably have an astrisk associated with the score that really indicates that for fans of this specific genre and by the standards and expectations within this genre the score given might be useful. Troll 2 gets a 1/10 in terms of competent film making, acting, cinematography and all those other "serious" criteria. For the average horror fan and the genre it aims to be, maybe it goes up to a 2/10 because let's be real it's trash if you want an actual horror movie. But anyone who's watched Troll 2 knows the obvious and that it's infamous for just how unintentionally hilarious and consistently entertaining it is for anyone who enjoys hilariously fun and cheesy shit movies. To that demographic it's a legendary 10/10 holy grail and absolutely worthy of unironic praise. A good review would highlight all this but what score would it get? Different people would rate it from these vastly different perspectives, so what use averaging those to get an imdb score?
Hey Whimsu, the audio around 11:30 is kinda just... gone. Just thought I'd say something, love the video!
Why is the cow just a bad Don Knotts impression?
Games in general are just so much harder to rate than say music. An album is usually a concise and short experience that you can spin again over and over. This fosters a community of people that gather to rate and review music on various websites. In this way, I think numbered scores and in depth reviews are useful impetuses for discussion
My tastes in music change day by day. One day I love an album, the other day I can't listen to it for 3 minutes. Basically not even I would enjoy my own music reviews.
From the time I've read music reviews, I'd say music is impossible to review.
The amount of stuff that is either incomprehensible to the average listener or has nothing to do with the music itself (i.e. commentary on the lead singers' hairstyles are ubiquitous) in music reviews is astounding.
However, game reviews is a field so broad, if that approach was taken to any other medium, you'd end up not with music reviews, but with sound reviews. Because reviewing Tetris the same way one does Skyrim is just absurd.
Nah, music can be even more subjective than videogames.
@@thomasrdiehl Both music and games are vast fields impossible to generalize, but they contain several more or less defined circles of tropes and works we call 'genres', so a rock or jazz music critic is possible, as is a RPG or FPS game critic. Within the circle of a genre, there is many tropes and forms that are shared, and a vast amount of intersubjective qualities can be avaliated. An RPG game with a badly optimized magic system will be badly reviewed because it failed a core aspect of the genre, even if it had nice 2d platforming parts scatered around. Of course, genres evolve and are created or wither away, but it is possible to form reviews for the game for the time it appeared.
Love this take. Bt dubs I miss your intro song.
I think its interesting that youtube notifications will tell u the original title of a video, even on the website "I think reviews are weird"
What's the song at the end?
If there was a OP arc with just Chopper doing dumb shit fans would still call it 10/10 because "Oda can't do wrong." I would like it because it's Chopper.
Dude I love your videos so much. I've been watching you for years same with alternate history hub and I love so much what your channel has become. You just "get it" so we'll about everything you talk about and all you videos are so funny and enjoyable to watch. As a CZcams veteran it's not often I watch a creator that gives me the same happiness and enjoyment as I used to, but yours always does. Please, keep up the great work
This sounds mostly like you don't think reviews are useless, but review scores
6:30 hilarious to me cause i never heard of this glider? Show. I already forgot
the cow and the cat were superb.
Wow thanks CZcams I did not received a notification about this Whimsu video.
Wow. It's almost like there is a wide breath of artist expression and tastes so the idea of an objective, numerical, crowd sourced opinion is inherently flawed.
Another great video Whimsu!
why was there a part of the vid muted
when these new videos come out, I click on them so fast, that I usually don't even know which channel he's posting on until he talks about the other one
Audio cuts out at 11:30 for 30 seconds
I will say NFL2k1 was pretty amazing it was extremally impressive and one of the best Dreamcast games
You are so right.
Especially now as I get older and I don't have as much time to game it takes a lot to get into a game like Red Dead Redemption 2. It's why I like something like a Call of Duty campaign. I can just turn my brain off, mindlessly shoot things and it plays out like an action popcorn flick that I can finish in two or three sittings. Though I'm not defending MW3, that is a plain Bobby Kotick cash grab. It's why Titanfall 2 and the original MW2 are up super high on my list. Yes I loved RDR2 but I just don't have the time anymore unfortunately to sink into a game like that. People like different things. Don't shame someone for liking something you don't.
Also about numerical scores... It's why I like Gameranx reviews. I also loved older game magazines even though they gave numerical reviews, they just had multiple people review the same game so you got three different viewpoints on a game and what they thought of it. IGN could do something like that, they are big enough, but they're just far too lazy.
Same issue here. Keep hearing things like RDR2, Breath of the Wild, or whatever new 40+ hour game is a masterpiece and I need to play it and I'm just like, I believe you and would but I just can't get into a long game like that these days. I have one to two hours tops a night, so snack sized games it is
I really liked this review on reviews.
Individual reviewers can be useful and entertaining, because you get a feel for their tastes and biases which will remain consistent. You won't likely always agree with their take, but it is still something you can get value from.
For example: If they hate strategy games, their review of a strategy game probably wont be stellar overall, but they might praise certain aspects. If you watch the review as a strategy game fan, it might come across as a full on endorsement to you. Both the negatives and the positives being positives, to you.
This is also why reviews from outlets like Kotaku and IGN are entirely worthless and lacking any merit whatsoever. There is no consistent reviewer. Each review by them may as well have been done by a different person they got off the street for all it matters.
I'm not a fan of listening sponser endorsements (I know people have to do it to keep their channel running, so p,ease calm down), but the one you did was the best one ever!
That's why I don't give a crap about numerical reviews value, or even review at all.
I just browse the web to see the game's performance, as I find most game nowadays released in half broken states that can barely run at console level quality. I value gameplay over everything else, anything else is a bonus and I'll find it myself.
I find it satisfying whenever someone makes a review that perfectly articulates my own opinion on a game in greater detail than I ever could.
I just don't use reviews to determine if I'll buy a game or not. Also, review scores are only useful to the person giving out the scores. I use them to rank my favorite games.
Whimsu went off the dep end fast.
Reviews can be very subjective and full of opinions.
I can respect a reviewer that can at least acknowledge such.
That is my subjective opinion.
I'll be honest I hate that phrase because people pepper it in every sentence it's more like an excuse for a take
I love that you use a green screen effect…
.
For an animated cat.
That was the greatest ad read I've ever heard
You don't get review copies? I'll have a talk with my dad. He works at Nintendo
Your sponsor segments are more entertaining than most people's videos
Bros Audio stops at like 11 minutes
12:48 Way to spoil season 12 for me!
I accidentally skipped ahead and then a stuffed cow screamed HIPOCRACY at me
reviews are only opinions, sure there can be a consensus but i would just go out and find a reviewer who has similar taste to you. then crossreference with the general sentiment and decide from there.
reminds me of when I look at Goodreads reviews for books I read in school half all the 2 an 1 star reviews either said the expansion books added nothing or that it all just had no good characters an none of the reviews added specifics
book reviews are less helpful then movie an game
Saying reviews are just opinions is wrong, although there's a heavy percentage of a review thats opinion, the most important stuff is the objective points made in it. Like, why do we agree some of the worst games of all time are in fact the worst games of all time? Because there's objective things everyone can determine as true. One thing is liking or disliking something the other thing is if that something is good or bad
Best ad in a youtube video ever
Duuude the music on the end is so good, where can I find it online?
i cant lie i had no clue you had another channel
The best art gets 10 out 10s but predominantly, at the same time, gets sub 3s.
The most chaotic neutral channel ever
"readers can form their own opinions" lol
All video game reviews should be done like Action Button!
I work in a comicshop, which puts me in the weird position that I need to understand many different types of readers, but am also inundated by so many comics that I've become quite selective in my own taste. It's a European shop so this won't make sense to many Americans, but the main sellers tend to be Asterix and Blake & Mortimer, classics that haven't changed all that much since the original creators died. I personally like the weirder and more experimental stuff, Pier Dola, Manu Larcenet and Zoe Thorogood are personal favorites of mine. I have to give advice to everyone though, whether our tastes align or not. I also don't want to lie, so I have to look at things through other people's eyes, and that's pretty cool, I think. I try to look at everything with both sets of eyes, my own and the fan's, and that makes me, hopefully, reliable. On the other hand there's the used-car-salesman type, so you can't always trust us either. If you do find a shopkeep you like though, that's a wonderful thing, it's how I got into the business in the first place. It's a lot more important to us that you're happy and come back than it is to sell you that one book, so we'll try and avoid bullshit. So yeah, don't trust an 'eight-out-of-ten' but do trust 'I know you, I reckon you'll like this one!'
It boggles my mind that people don't put much higher value on tailored recommendations than anything "general" or even "personal."
I like Metroidvania's, Experimental Kart Racers, weird indie projects, and any game with an in-depth Social System or has compelling romance, and tend to hate roguelikes, fps, open-world, etc. I don't know another soul that has my taste in games. But I did know my boss would love Cult of the Lamb because she likes Animal Crossing, cutesy horror, Zelda, and wants a game to play in short bursts. She fell in love with the game after my recommendation. My sister (a non-gamer) fell in love with Untitled Goose Game after I sat her down to play since she likes memes, jokes about bullying, puzzles, but normally struggles with camera controls. My ex-coworker who loved BotW and 3D Platformers came to love The Pathless after my recommendation. And the examples can keep going.
My personal recommendations aren't going to appeal to seemingly anyone else. My ex-friend who will shout out Call of Duty nonstep isn't going to make anyone happy. But just taking a minute to listen, think, and be a bit savvy about the field can lead you to make people who are barely gamers, find something they love as much as their favorite movie. And the same with other mediums.
That ad is insanely too long
Whimsu is also Mr. Husk?!?!
It reminds me of how game elitists convince themselves that 'difficulty = good', and then get mad when you wish a certain game had an easier difficulty.
I don't care that you think the point of elden ring is its difficulty, I think the world is neat, I want to explore it, and I want to do so without dying 80,000 times before I get to the first boss.
the ground news ground beef is an interesting character in the whimsu cinematic universe
Thank you Whimsu, we're happy to be supporting your work. For anyone interested, check out the link above.
9:20 UMMMM excuse you? I am a GRAMAMA ON THE INTERNET and I LOVE ERASERHEAD
How did Don Knotts reincarnate as the ground news cow?
11:33 thinked that it was a dramatic pause. its not, he just muted the whole section.
I'd watch chopper run around for 30 episodes, that'd be cinema history
I think reviews are to be taken as a very general guidance for something that might appeal to you or not and how good the reviewer can communicate that. In the end, you gotta experience yourself to have the final word.
The Ground News Cow bit was pretty funny. It was my favourite part of this video, lol.
Love the Redlettermedia reference
now that was an awesome and funny ad! All ads should be like this one!
i gotta admit somethin. i Kinda Like Scores, I just think they need be less precise, like X/10 is much better than X/100. I really like the Scores on Steam, just a binary recommend or don't recommend.
Yes! A video! Please make more videos!
Big fan of the Don Knotts as a cow impression.
What da hell is the little fella at 13:00 from gang
From 11:34 to 12:00 there is no sound in the video.
CONGRATS ON 100K!
i review the music at the end of the video about a 98 out of 172 somethings. sometimes i listen to the tracks on soundcloud
This was a pretty good video or something but you lost my attention within the first 10 seconds. 3/10
ur audio cuts out for a sec at 11:34ish
Final Fantasy 14 is a horrible video game and not worth the time... if you only have the time to deal with the original content before Heavensward.
I've got a friend who is basically exactly this. He has a specific taste for what we've dubbed "ghost therapy." None of the cartoony antics of Spongebob getting sick or hyper-violent blood explosion anime, no, it's gotta be a thorough deconstruction of a character through their exposure to extreme circumstances. He's a people-person, psychology is interesting to him, and so his interest in a medium is almost wholly derived from the characters involved having character growth. You're not gonna get that from Metroid no matter how high the review scores are, arguably you'll only get that from a Metroid game with a low review score, because that's not what Metroid is about. Samus doesn't have a cutscene where she comes across some alien creature and contemplates if being a bounty hunter has been worth all of the trauma, or has some Space Federation get tossed aside because he gave her lip and she solves most problems with some kind of violence. Y'know, most *non-Other M* Metroid games.
If you have Hero McGood fighting the bad guy, and his response to the news that his mom died is a monotone "No, that can't be." it's basically ruined. The scene did not elicit a reaction in the characters, nor did it drive the plot with anything besides stakes and drama, ergo it was dead air. Which is kind of sad, because it's been accepted by our friend group that there are absolutely shows we like that aren't for him and we won't really be able to talk about them with him. We can't do anything that's longer than an hour per setting, there needs to be an actual hook in the first 20 minutes instead of just setting up the plot and characters, it has to be character-driven, and the voice-acting has to at least be believable but preferably good. It's very difficult to find more than four new things a year.
I think in the case of video games there could be an interesting conversation about story and gameplay because overall if a game is fun it is more likely to get at 7 out of 10 and the story could be very boring and bad. Just look at Ubisoft I swear those stories could be written by AI at this point.
So as a game reviewer/ someone in the industry the only real complaint I have is that you're kind of wrong on what we're writing for/ the time we spend. Some games take two weeks plus to play the game, some take a couple months.
Meanwhile most of the reviews that we do aren't meant to complete the game, or even to tell you anything about the story. It's to tell you whether or not a game is worth the price tag, or work put into it. For instance a game like Starfield may be better subjectively than something an indie title produces, but both can have wildly different scores based on what they're trying to accomplish. The best example I could give for this is that a game like Warhammer 40k rogue trader is just okay because of the fact it's had quite a bit of development, but has more than a lot of bugs in it. Meanwhile something like madness project Nexus is an indie title that was nearly perfect on launch.
Think of the numbers as the state of playability and the appeal it may have less than how good or perfect it may be
Bring back the intro I love the intro
Noelle main
I have become death
All i wanted is ethics in gaming journalism. Now im a right wing extremist?
You're my fav creator man
Yes I'm watching one piece lol
Listen, I like the Ground News Cow, but I also miss the Seal of Approval.
I spend my rare free time watching your videos.
They're the greatest form of entertainment. 11/10
Oh shit it's like the recent Skeptic video... When worlds collide
Liking and commenting for the shoutout to my boy Tony Chopper lol
whimsu you are the goat.
The Ground News Cow sounds like Jerry Seinfeld on cocaine.
Burgers?
ah A RLM fan truly a man of taste
Whimsu ads are good. (I'm parodying this video's title)
❤ Eraserhead
I don’t know which voice is real now
❤
Balls