Novel Writing Guide for the Methodological Plotter
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- čas přidán 21. 07. 2024
- Description
Tips and tricks for the methodological plotter.
Patreon: / ellenbrock
The Four Writing Types
• The Four Types of Nove...
Story Structure Links
My New Series on Structure: • Advanced Story Structure
27 Chapter Story Structure: livingwriter.com/blog/27-chap...
Blake Snyder's Book Save the Cat: www.amazon.com/Save-Last-Book...
Save the Cat Writes a Novel: www.amazon.com/Save-Cat-Write...
Blake Snyder's Online Movie & Book Breakdowns: savethecat.com/beat-sheets
Blake Snyder's 10 Story Types: savethecat.com/get-started#15...
Larry's Brook's Book: www.amazon.com/Story-Engineer...
Story Structure Template (beat sheet) examples:
jamigold.com/2012/02/how-to-r...
www.creativindie.com/plot-out...
Characterization
Big Five Personality Traits: www.verywellmind.com/the-big-...
Myers-Briggs Personality Types: www.16personalities.com/free-...
Scene Structure
• How to Write Proactive...
My core/essential videos for learning novel writing are listed here: ellenbrockediting.com/novel-w...
All of my video topics and other resources are listed here: ellenbrockediting.com/videos-...
0:00 Introduction
2:14 FIND THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF PLOTTING
6:23 AVOID POINTLESS OR INEFFECTIVE WORKSHEETS
8:50 CHARACTERS' PERSONALITIES
11:57 DEFINE THE CHARACTER ARC
14:13 DON'T LEAVE TONE TO CHANCE
17:19 BRAINSTORM MULTIPLE PLOT TRAJECTORIES
18:29 BE HONEST ABOUT WHETHER A PLOT POINT WORKS
22:08 CONSIDER SCENE LENGTH
23:34 PLAN THE SCENE STRUCTURE
25:11 WHEN YOU'RE STUCK ON THE OUTLINE, EXPLAIN THE PROBLEM
27:53 UPDATE YOUR OUTLINE AS YOU WRITE (OR AT LEAST BEFORE YOU EDIT)
29:02 EDIT THE OUTLINE BEFORE THE NOVEL ITSELF
30:16 START REVISIONS BY LOOKING AT THE PLACEMENT OF THE PLOT POINTS
31:56 DON'T PANIC WHEN YOUR VOICE ISN'T STRONG IN THE FIRST DRAFT - Jak na to + styl
00:01 Intro
02:10 Find the right amount of plotting for you
03:45 Use a story structure template
Personalize a template from different systems
06:20 Avoid pointless or ineffective worksheets
Especially character and world building worksheets
08:45 Plan your characters' personalities
Big 5 personality traits
Myers-Briggs
11:55 Define the character arc
Flaw/false belief/wound
End of arc
14:10 Don't leave tone to chance
Mix of 2 or 3
17:15 Brainstorm multiple plot trajectories
Beware of predictable plots
18:25 Be honest about whether a plot point works
Don't rush the process
20:10 Plan in some "wow" moments
Don't use cliches
22:05 Consider scene length
Helps estimate length of each story section
23:30 Plan the scene structure
Beginning, middle, end
Goal, conflict, resolution
Helps evaluate scenes - make scene more interesting, estimate word count
25:10 When you're stuck on the outline, explain the problem (to yourself or someone else)
Methodological plotters take advice well
27:50 Update your outline as you write (or at least before you edit)
29:00 Edit the outline before the novel itself
30:10 Start revisions by looking at the placement of the plot points
Check the word counts
31:55 Don't panic when your voice isn't strong in the first draft
Work on a scene at a time OR one aspect (e.g. emotional arc, character's dialog, descriptions) at a time
33:45 Don't ignore your gut
Intuition can sometimes be better than methodology
34:40 Outro
Thank you so much for all of these kinds of videos!
While I'm a pantser (learned from you!), a lot of videos out there dont explain much on the ACTUAL writing styles and/or give tips as to hone your own style of writing. These videos have been awesome at explaining so many quirks in my own writing styles that I never realized had names 🤣
Thanks!!
Thank you Kit!
As an MFA graduate, thank you so much for your practical and focused approach. There's* an ocean of videos with authors scolding other writers about what not to do. This is much more helpful advice. Cheers!
Glad it was helpful!
Great comment. Totally agree, which is why I've been subscribed for.... 8 years?
Methodological vs intuitive...as a truck driver aspiring to be a writer, I see these two types in traffic, too.😀
Haha! Gold!
@@qine6559 😀
😆😆😆
My grandfather owned a trucking company. If he were still here, I bet you could sit up for hours and share stories. Y’all always have the best ones!!
@@TheRonnieaj 😀
As someone who sits in a TMA truck all day/night doing nothing, and also aspiring to write, I see mostly chaotic nutbaggery in traffic.
My jaw dropped when you started talking about tone!! In all my years of taking creative writing classes, I've never heard of planning tone out in advance. Despite this, I do it all the time, but have always felt that it was weird/uncreative/un-writerly of me, like tone should come way more naturally to me. Thank you for validating that this is a real, writerly thing I can do!
I felt kind of the same way about "explaining the problem".
i love how you've presented the idea that anyone might be anywhere on this matrix not only as an overall writer but for each different aspect of the writing process, and that you're not trying to put any single person into any single bin. it sounds obvious and simple but 🧐🧐🧐 clearly it isn't lol. ty again for sharing your insights with us, ellen!!!
These have been the best 35 minutes of writing instruction I've had in a long time. Your guidance is clear, specific, and encouraging. It makes me feel as though this novel-writing thing is actually doable. Can't thank you enough.
Wow, this was absolutely eye-opening. I was totally convinced I was a methodological pantser, but now I've realised that I'm probably a methodological plotter who hates plotting (because of a bad experience in the past). I guess it's time to give it another go.
Your points here about not leaving tone to chance are so appreciated. Such a great piece of advice that doesn’t get enough attention
Could you possibly make a video where you can give methodological plotting methods for foreshadowing? Kind of like a story structure, but for things like establishing a characters track record of behaviors on smaller scales that foreshadow a greater character flaw/misbelief?
ELLEN. This material can be the next popular book on writing. PART ONE: Writer Types. PART TWO: 100 Writing Exercises to Determine and Develop Your Strengths.
JUST what I asked for next! Though I just called it 'a test'.
I started this thinking it'd be interesting to see different sorts of writers, see what makes em tick. Get good ideas from that. However I finished the video convinced this one is actually me!
Thank you so much for stating writing concepts in such a comprehensive way!
The thing I love about you series is that you made me understand that there are different ways to write and none of them is right or wrong, some things just don't work for certain types. And it seems to me that CZcams is now flooded with methodological pantsers giving writing advice and they made me think that my writing process is a disaster and I must completely change my approach, make more detailed plans and character worksheets, etc. And I think if I did so, it could have killed all the joy of writing for me.
Ah I remember taking the Myers-Briggs test several years ago. Turns out I am an Advocate and it sounded pretty spot on. I forgot what personality types my characters ended up with but I do remember trying to force the answers in the direction I believed they were.
Advocates unite!
This is brilliant. You're brilliant. It's like you've been in my head. Thank you again for a fantastic video. I can't wait for the next one.
I'm so glad you enjoyed it!
omg she's back 😊 (I didn't notice the last few vids lol)
the worksheet point at 7:16 is so frrrrrr!!! i filled out a 70-something question character sheet for years thinking i needed to know their favorite food, theme song, pet dog's breed etc and i'd try to get them on the page and...nothing lmao
I’ve been waiting for this one omg 💜 I’m neck deep in developmental edits for my manuscript. Your channel is my absolute favorite & has helped me sooo much in my process!
I am in the same process and I fully agree❤️❤️❤️❤️. Best channel for editing by far.
I love using the Enneagram for character creation, especially with inner arcs. At least for newbies, it's a little easier to maneuver than the Meyers-Briggs, while still getting you into the character's heart.
I also think that quietly imagining your character in critical scenes can spark the intuition of a methodical writer.
Can I just say that I'm very happy that you are back to posting videos? I kept wondering where you went, and it's nice to see your face and tips pop up in my subscriptions once again.
Thank you so much!
I was battling my outline just yesterday; this came at the perfect time. Great video as always! I can already see myself coming back to it a million times.
I just used the Myers-Briggs to test one of the mains in the book I'm working on and I'm 100% not surprised. I think I have him pretty much downpat. Thanks for the video. And the resources. :)
@@MagikCat112 ??
Enneagram is also a really useful personality type tool. And a tip with brainstorming that worked for me was making a list of 20 ideas. It forces you to think beyond the obvious to the more outrageous or ridiculous, which sometimes sparks a more believable solution.
Good ideas! I totally forgot about the enneagram. I haven't read up on that in a really long time.
@@EllenBrock For me, it's much easier to visualise and conceptualise the enneagram types in context. I suppose I'm a visual learner. With MBTI I'm only able to conceptualise the two types I fall between, and the acronyms don't really help. I think it's much easier to understand a 1 and 9, and how some people fall between both.
So glad to see you back :D
I just wanted to thank you for this. I struggle with finding confidence in my voice. I often struggle to finish things because my early drafts lack those polished craft elements. I've often felt like I wasn't good enough yet, when its really that the draft isn't good enough yet.
I am here for the algorithm because these are my favorite videos. I'm a methodological pantser so I have no thoughts on the video itself :)
Ohhh! Finally! Thank you! I've been waiting for this one.
So awesome seeing you posting regular content again!
The tip about only outlining relative information is definitely something I need to observe lol
Omg I'm so happy you're back! These videos are really helpful, thanks a bunch!
You are so well-spoken and helpful. Thank you!
You are one of my favorites. Thank you SO much!
This video is Packed with great guidance!!! Thank you 🌺
Hey, Ellen, great to see you again!
Thank you for making these videos. They're always informative. I can't wait to hear the updated structure video!!
Great advice, Ellen! It felt like you were speaking directly to me. Thanks so much for this!
Thanks for the video, Ellen! I definitely took some notes from this one. Hehe.
Thank you, Ellen, for this series. It's been nothing but helpful. First I think I'm a methodological pantser, but like you said I also can pick one-two tips and tricks from other types that worked/will work for me. I don't want to rush you but well, I can't wait for the last type, intuitive pantser! 😄
Oh wow, thanks for sharing my plotting outline template! Love your videos :)
OMG I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR MAKING THIS VIDEO💪🥰
You're so welcome!
Okay, so I knew, without a doubt, I'm a methodological plotter once I heard it's description. In fact, I'm on the far end of it. But, there's a piece of advice that will make my life so much easier. The bit on voice.
I'd been getting stuck just as described, and writing the same scene over and over, and I just didn't like doing that. But, it never occurred to me to just write the whole darn thing, then focus in on one aspect of voice over the story, then another, then another. That sounds so much more fun (and, to be honest, useful, too!)
THANK YOU!!! 😁
So helpful! Thank you so much for this! It has helped me understand my writing process better.
As always, very useful and helpful advice.
You have my Thanks 💖
Thank you for all the information and ideas. Can't wait for the intuitive pantser video, which might describe my process the best
Thank you so much for this! This has turned out to be how I write best and most easily. I'm glad for a video with more advice on it.
Very helpful video. I've been really enjoying this series so far and I'm super excited for the next video. I'm also looking forward to this advanced story structure series, since I'm a bit of a story structure nerd.
Love the advice about editing the outline before editing the manuscript.
Another awesome video! Thanks so much!
This was WONDERFULLY affirming and helpful. Thanks so much Ellen!
this was INCREDIBLY helpful and useful. thank you so much Ellen.
You're so welcome!
This was so ridiculously helpful to take a detailed look at my process ❤ you've just shone a light on many aspects of my writing habits that I've barely thought twice about!
Interesting video, thanks Ellen.
This is so awesome! Thank you, Ellen :)
OMG FINALLY PLEASE AND THANK YOU!!! My personality type video! It also answered my roadblock with what to do with character arcs. I know what overall things I want my characters to do/change in the story. But I never felt like I knew enough about how they work to write them down. Just felt generic.
Thank you for this video which resonates my situation.
Everything you discuss actually helps me trigger more ideas that are relevant to my project.
Tone is very much part of this.
Just need to re-organise my jigsaw pieces again now 😊 and may be finish my first draft soon !!
just watched the Intuitive Pantser and then came to this to see the difference, and it's chilling to feel how relevant these tips are for me compared to the other video. It feels like Ellen was speaking specifically about me for all of the examples 😅
I admire you sm, thank you for all these incredibly useful tips
Other people have already said it, but planning out tone is such a great idea. Just, all the advice here is so practical, even going into revisions. I've been looking for something like this for years!
This video is fantastic. Thank you.
Thanks for the video! This is definitely a big help. It made me realize something that is definitely going to be a problem for me when I get to the editing stage: I wrote the plot outline from scratch rather than using any sort of template, and since I didn't really know what I was doing at the time, it's a mess of scattered notes spread across multiple documents, and I have no idea how I'm going to put it all together for the editing phase.
It‘s interesting to learn how other writers think and work, even if the ideas might not be right for me. Although I‘m always grateful for help concerning character arc/building. The part about planning the tone is extremely interesting!
Thank you Ellen, you are a very helpful teacher, I have enjoyed your spunkly heart felt delivery, very cute!
Nice! I am very much looking forward to the intuitive pantser video. I'm quite sure I'm in that group.
You are seriously awesome at this. How did you get so good at this?^^ I am in awe and thank you for your videos!
Man this would have been so helpful last year before I started my first novel. In some ways my story is a second draft, having created the world and told it to my son as a bed time story. Still I know when it comes to book two I will have learnt so much, that it should actually be a much better process.
Anyways very helpful video as are everything you seem to upload. Many thanks and look forward to the next one!
Really helpful. I will be applying this advice.
This was very helpful, Ellen. Because I'm so focused on my story and characters, I haven't planned upfront for tone. Thank you! All elements should involve a decision, then.
Hi Ellen, love your videos :) Are you going to do an intuitive pantser vid? Thanks!
Thank you so much. Really helpful tips! I agree with the need for customization. 💪 Lord, all those plot-only videos aren't motivating the rest of the creative add hemisphere. 😉 Can't wait for the intuitive pantser video :)
Thank you so much for those videos! I guess I'm more an Intuitive Plotter type (although I've resonated more with some advice for Methodological Pantsers) and now I see why I feel uncomfortable with most of the advice in the writing community, which tends to be far more Methodological Plotter oriented. Methodology gives me headaches and that's about it
Three down, one more to go. The one I’m waiting for. Just what you said in the first “four types” video was so helpful. A duh moment.
I never considered the difference between methodological worksheets versus intuitive worksheets. Very helpful, thank you!
Super helpful, thank you!
Good video! It's really inspiring good helpful!
I think I identified with the methodological pantser the most, cuz I just HATE plotting it kills my creativity, but there’s a LOT of good tips here that I could also see myself using. I may try plotting a few more times, maybe I just haven’t found what works for me yet🤔
I can think of so many pieces of media that could have benefitted from this cause a lot of 'methodical' advice is all about structure, logic, dynamicism, word use etc and not about *flavor* , & you have many tips here related to that (like tone, aesthetic, character distinctiveness & contrast, eye-catching moments...) & flavor is a lot of what gets a work dedicated fans & memorability. It's probably as simple as just putting it on ppl's radar as yet another thing to plan out. "Remember to put in flavor" bam, done, the evil is defeated, more interesting books & tv shows for everyone.
Okay, now I'm at least sure that I'm not a methodological plotter because lots of things this type does, like planning out the atmosphere of the scene or the length of the pieces, seem so unnecessary, it all comes naturally to me. Still, plenty of the techniques are so interesting, I'm eager to use them when I start editing my novel. I love how you pointed out that being a methodological writer doesn't mean that you can't use intuition. And I think the same is true for intuitive writers: you might rely on your senses and yet sometimes use the methodology to improve some aspects.
Thank you very much for the valuable advice!
Awesome video! I will have to re-watch it and take notes. Already bookmarked!
All your timestamp titles should be post-its around my computer screen
Wow moments are my favorite part to create. I'm writing a rom com with the forbidden love/enemies to lovers trope. I have a list of all the expected scenes (first time interactions, small moments where they connect, characters realizing their attraction, confession, first kiss, etc) and I twist every one of them from serious into something ridiculous.
I'm definitely a mythological plotter more than anything else. I always thought it could be very helpful if I did try to have my own personalized template, and your callout of this has definitely pushed me to start. My method is gonna be reverse engineering from stories/sections I've wrote before to come up with a template that lets me feel more confident to start writing once I have those details filled.
Regarding tone: I couldn't agree more. I find I'm much more successful with a given scene or chapter if I take a moment to clearly define the starting tone, midpoint tone, and ending tone of the scene just before I draft it. I feel it gives each scene it's own emotional arc that supports the overall tone of the story. It also seems to work whether writing an active scene (define scene goal, attempt goal, outcome) as well as reflective / reactive scenes (evaluate recent events, process meaning of these events, make new plan).
I put my ST / MT / ET (starting, mid, and ending tone) in the notepad area of Scrivener along with a bullet point order of events or points to hit in dialogue / description. I wait to do this mini-breakdown until just before I draft so it feels like a natural transition from the previous scene.
Talking it out is often when _I_ see the problems. It's not that others make suggestions, but that I find the problems and solutions myself by talking to others.
The fact that this video has CERO dislikes is a testament of how good, helpful and well intentioned videos made by Ellen really are.
Thanks again.
PS. Me, I'm still struggling with my inhability to add more information to something written without it completely disorienting me. BTW. For me, these instructives are the equivalent of talking to another person about my (very stagnant) process. I think it's really helping. Like a wound slowly healing. So thank you.
So so helpful! Thank you.
I'm starting to think that I'm not "one type" and like you said in the intro & 3 videos so far, a lot of writers (including myself) are probably somewhere between two or more "types" on the two continuums. Thank you for the idea on having multiple options for plot points! I did that for reactions with some scenes while outlining and while drafting. It was very basic so it's worth trying that approach to some plot points, since I already went through the trouble to plot a lot in advance. I suspect that I might be most like the Intuitive Pantser, even when I'm writing projects much longer than short or micro fiction so I look forward to the Intuitive Pantser video. All of your videos are amazing, Ellen! I believe there's something to learn from them, no matter the "type" of writer & amount of experience one has! Have a wonderful day! 🌸
Thank you! You have a wonderful day too!
If I may request, please when you do the advanced series on plotting and outlining, make a playlist and include in the videos the rough percentages where the key points should fall in a standard structure. Also, I'm interested in the theory behind deviating from standard plot structures and how to make it work.
I'm basically as much of a methodological plotter as is possible to get. I think that's a big reason why I've been okay to work on the finest details worldbuilding and plotting, even to the extent of constructing a population density map for my fantasy world.
As I may have said before, you need all these thank yous for the work you put in for our collective behalf. Not gushing.
I've been writing, and studying writing, for years. Still, you never fail to remind me of lessons long forgotten.
-Cheers.
Wow, thank you!
@@EllenBrock Of course, the downside of all your success is, I found you too late to employ you. (Color me selfish.) :)
Some writers have worldbuilder's disease... I will fill out outline after outline after outline lol, thanks for tips! This is really helpful for putting certain aspects in perspective.
This is absolutely your best video for me. I feel like you are sitting in my house chatting with me about my story. I've already been through it twice and expect I will listen again a couple of times. I am clearly in the methodological plotter space. I have been working on all my story ideas and figuring out how they need to relate in structures. I feel like I almost have it. Your comments about finding the story structure words that makes sense is very freeing. I do have one nagging issue with my understanding of the story structure. So many different people call the hook, inciting incident and the 1st plot point different things and it seems sometimes they equate them. Some folks put them at certain percentages. I don't get the idea yet within my story idea. Help.
I'm so glad you like the video! I'm working right now on a video about the first quarter. It will go along with the video I posted about the status quo. It should be posted within the next three weeks (I'm not sure how long it will take to finish). A lot of different terms are thrown out in discussions of story structure. Sometimes the chosen term is confusing (it sounds like it would mean something different) and other times it's referring to an optional (rather than mandatory) plot point, and still other times you will find the term being used to mean something completely different by different people. I'm working right now on how to iron all of this out in a way that will hopefully shed light on what the first quarter should look like.
Oh this is gold! You know, I want quite sure if I was a methodological pantser until watching this video. Some of your tips had me all like "Stop peeking at my drafts!" 🤣🙈
Specifically I've always had a big problem figuring how long a scene would be, which has screwed my act- level pacing several times. No longer, thanks to your tips!
Thanks, Ellen, you knocked this one out the park!
So glad you found it helpful!
Hi Ellen, thank you for your wonderful videos! Can you kindly suggest tools to help organize thoughts for new novel writers who are MPs? For example, I have ideas about main characters yet I'm not sure how to create a 'character profile' (and I also believe 2 different templates for main characters and secondary characters would be helpful). I have ideas about twists and 'wow moments' yet I don't think an outline is an appropriate document to capture those ideas. I am also interested in world-building tools if you can suggest some for MP's. Thank you!
This one isn't me, so I'm watching this more for perspective. Sometimes explaining the problem can directly give you material for the protagonist's dilemma. If you're thinking how on earth is my character going to get out of this, maybe they are too.
About the voice: My first draft almost always sounds like a report. Everything is short and effective, but boring. I need this to find to voice and tone later. It's a normal part of my process. And I feel it got better over the stories I wrote. My new first drafts get better through editing older drafts and getting conscious about my voice more.
I didn't realize how intuitive I was until I watched this. Or, maybe more accurately, how many intuitive methods I use.
I haven't seen your intuitive plotters video yet, because I just found this video/series, but this is driving home that I'm very much an intuitive writer. This style of working seems so foreign to me. However, I think I am struggling with editing my plot/novel because I am so heavily intuitive leaning that's hard sometimes to work out what my story NEEDS when I don't just KNOW what should be there. I know what works and why, but I don't know what isn't there and whether what isn't there doesn't work, if that makes any sense. Feeling kind of stuck because I'm plagued with a constant feeling of missing SOMETHING. Have been trying more methodological thinking lately without knowing it, I guess, but it isn't coming painlessly. Starting to feel like my tone is too complicated, but I can't let anything go, because I want it all.
Oh my gosh! Are you back for good?
Thank you for the video! I have a question! What about language aspect? Do we consider stylistic choices to be parts of methodology? or Do you talk about structural aspects exclusively?
My plotting works about as well as using a $3 bill in a grocery store. The idea was followed but the basis of the story went so far off the rails, Ideas and concepts ended up being added with out ever being plotted! This novel was to be simple but it ended after almost a million word was put into it. Its was divided into 7 smaller novels but now I concluded that it needs more division. SO much for plotting! However its one of my favorite stories and sometimes I will listen to it on mp3.
I spend a lot of time writing things, and then immediately polishing, and then deleting and rewriting and polishing again (this includes comments on CZcams videos because I'm mentally ill). In books, I've realized I should save that for later.
Great Stuff
Wow, so wonderfully methodical. And testing your self first. Hey, and idea? Could you make or find a 'test' to help someone more or less methodological, find their type on something that isn't just 'feel' e.g. a questionaire?
BTW I'm going to share the four videos so far with a 'sort of creative writing team/evening class' that I'm in. A few of us are talking about 'a writing career/making more and longer texts'.
I'm not quite sure what type I am (probably SOMETHING methodological?), but I do feel calmer and more reassured that that is something I can figure out with these videoes. Might a traditionally raised male ad, videos made by a very professional, young lady growing ever more beautiful?
BT next W: I've just opened a bottle af French Champagne (at 1 a.m.) to celebrate having not only 'new peace of writing-mind.' But also that I just had a plot-breakthrough that I think will make the story much better.