The early 190XT Allis tractors were a contributing factor to AC's decline. Yes, there were numerous reasons, especially going into the horrible economy for AG equipment in the 80's, but the 190XT in particular left a lot of midwestern farmers looking at competitors models. I had a good friend in high school who's dad worked as an engineer for AC in the late 60's and into the 70's. He had some interesting stories to tell about how things went down regarding the 190XT from an insider perspective in the engineering dept. See, the 190XT was originally slated to be designed for roughly 95 drawbar HP. So you had all these engineers at AC down in West Allis working to design this new tractor, broken up into groups. Some were doing the chassis, some were working on the transmission, etc etc. Well, the engine dept got carried away and designed themselves an engine that was dyno'ing out at right around 135HP. Now that might have sounded like a real good thing! Over achiever! but the design called for 95HP, and the rest of the tractor was designed around 95HP, including the famed rear ends. So the solution? Turn the fuel screw until the engine dyno'd out to about 100 or so HP. Now, that worked for all the in house testing and proving ground durability tests, etc. But you know, here in the midwest back in the day, come county fair time the farmers would bring their shiny new tractors in to prove their worth at the tractor pulls to see which color paint could come out on top. And wouldn't you know, one of the oldest tricks in the book is to juice the fuel on a tractor to let it drink as much as it wants under hard load. So of course, and unbeknownst to these farmers why, these 190XT tractors became the talk of the town when they started overachieving at these tractor pulls by a wide margin and beating out handily other brands in the same class. Word got around about how turning the fuel up brought out a bunch more power, and pretty soon you had guys pulling 7 bottom plows with what was supposed to be a 95 drawbar HP tractor. And then the rear ends started blowing up. See, the extra power was enough to warp the input shaft into the rear end just enough the gears would not be fully engaged, and bad things happen to gears when they aren't fully engaged. Going back to some engineering talk, when the crew back at AC started hearing about this and did their own investigating, the fix was easy: just preload the bearings for the input shaft to accomodate the extra power. Adjustmenst was made on the production floor, and the later tractors went out and performed well. But that damage to AC's reputation had been done, even though the failures were caused by modifying the performance of the tractor, try telling that to the farmer who just had his shiny new tractor split the rear apart in the middle of spring tillage. And whether it was warranted or not, stuff like that sticks with a company for a while. When i was little, and Dad and i talked about tractors(we used to get these big full page ads from local dealers on used equipment) and I asked about an AC 185 because our old JD 50 putt putt was getting pretty rough, his reply was that AC had problems with rear ends and transmissions. Now, this was before i had heard about a 190XT at all, and well before I had met my friend and his engineer dad. but those stories from the 60's and midwestern farmers having their tractors blow apart had hung around for a decade through word of mouth, even though it was one model, and only the early ones at that. Anyway, that's hardly the sole reason AC had a rough go of it in the end, but that old story came to mind when the 190Xt showed up on this video. Reputation was a big deal for AG equipment in the 70's and especially 80's when the economy got rough.
1970 for the 220 and the 'smaller one' with the 190 style grille and and tin vs weighted front end casting is a 210. Same motor turned down a little just like they used that same 7 litre 426 size block all thru the 60s and 70s and even 80s from d21 to 8070 and 4w220 (rated at over twice the power of the original non-turbo D21 in 1963-5!)
Love the old AGCO stuff!!! I go by this dealership all the time. I think I'm going to try my hand at some farming videos, My brother works for Rivers Farms in this area and he asked if I would like to do some recording over there this year. Rivers is a pretty big operation in that area, maybe you guys would be interested in coming out if you're in the area.
It all depends on your perspective . I get to film big 2016 machines all season long. That's fun. It's finding the classics and rare classics that makes it even more fun. When they are at work in the field even better. These big tractors of the 60s,70s and 80s are disappearing.
I never really understood the whole agco history and now it makes more sense. Knew a farmer who owned oliver, gleaner, allis, white, and sunflower. Makes a lot of sense now haha.
if memory serves , the cabs & metal work were done as you said , but in GLEANER factories metal shops . atleast when i was in that line of work for a WHITE , A/C , Gleaner dealer , was the story they told us . tractors imported but finished by AGCO for USA market .
Love your videos . I am a 1 hour plus from them. Enjoy your videos on AGCO Brand Equipment. I am more AC,AGCO ,WHITE, but enjoy all brands that you video.Keep up what you do. Hope to meet you sometime. Wish you would come to Ohio Farm Science Review this week. I like to video , just don't put on the web to much .
Yes, I agree. I think we are old school, I'm guessing they're trying to get rid of old orange Allis colors. I lived running out stuff, 8550, 200 and the open station 185 I grew up on picking rocks. Unstoppable little old machines. We abused the heck out of that 200 but still ran strong in 1991. Winter hauling bails and wood, and blowing snow. Did most of our seeding pulling a big heavy haybuster, could seed 150 acres with one hopper. Fuel savings was huge. We pulled a 12 bottom DMI with 8550.
Do you find any fendt’s of the 70’s 80’s or 90’s in the us? 626LSA from ‘83 would be something? Or the 500 and 800 favorit series from the 90’s with front axle suspension, 50km/h, load sensing hudraulics and 48/48 turboshift gearbox?
I don't care what they call it, or whst color they paint it, if it didn't come out when the company was still headquartered in West Allis, it might as well be pink.
Ohh yeah bout 30 min south of me. We have had several Allis' and gleaners' come from there or parts. In our part of the neighborhood about 70% of our neighbors ran Orange. That Oliver look good on you!
This store is close to my neck of the woods and I have been there many times getting parts. There was a store also in Wilmington which was what I lived by in High School. They sold a lot of DA equipment out of that store. A lot of Deere guys had switched to DA tractors at that time or switched to Gleaner combines. I drove a Deutz Allis orange 9150 MFWD in High School pulling a 30' DA disk. I also cultivated a lot of soybeans using that tractor. It was a nice machine to run all day and had plenty of power for its size.
How about a short history of the other unit of agco, New Idea, I live 10 miles from Coldwater Ohio, while it was a "short line" company, they were quite innovative, The UNI System gets short shift and it really was quite unique, the 708 and up were really a nice machine, I have a 708 with a picker on it, used it till maybe this year on 50 acres, may still do a little picking in the future just for kicks. New Idea had a rotary sheller for it, years ago they were using it on the seminary farm on beans and wheat, if Avco hadn't cut off research money new idea could have been one of the first rotary combines on the market, oh well all gone now
Unfortunately, that dealer has turned me off to heritage Agco. They are an arm and a leg for parts on older machines, and don't seem to care since I'm so small.
Sorry you feel that way about us. If you need anything else please don't hesitate to call and ask for me and I'll see if our parts are really out of line by checking for other options for you. Parts prices have went up in the last 30 years, but we are still competitive and we have $1.75 Million in inventory, so on smaller, harder to inventory items we do charge a bit more to try and offset our manpower costs. We value all of our customers, large or small, and we also try to stock the parts that people need so you don't have to order everything every time. That is not cheap, and it is also not common in a dealership anymore. That is how we try to set ourselves apart. Thank you!
maverick12212000 I’m not sure if this reply is directed at me or not, but I’ll just say that it is not possible to maintain the same prices for 25 years. Nothing else in the world works that way, so I’m not sure why you would even honestly believe that is a possibility for machinery parts. My offer still stands to contact me to parts pricing questions.
No Chris, it's directed at the people that think parts for 30 plus year old equipment that's been discontinued should be given away. Not directed at you at all.
maverick12212000 just checking, and I agree totally. When I need parts for our forklift, or a pickup truck, or the new Peterbilt we have to have to deliver to our customers, I just have to pay them and go on. I either need the parts or don’t.
Very cool. I was at a consignment sale in Fremont, Ohio this spring and they had a four wheel drive AC in the line up. Supposedly at one time it was owned Loretta Lynn's family. Can't verify it, but that's what they said before they auctioned it off, didn't really help the price on the old girl.
+bigtractorpower That's pretty neat. I never knew that, never looked into it. Being it was at a consignment sale, it's easy to assume they were full of crap.
Thank you for lesson on ago. .the name ago and Allis Chalmers were in the same family And I know ago Allis Chalmers was way ahead of john Deere . Farmall and ihc . I want to know why ago killed the name Allis Chalmers. ?? I now Allis Chalmers were some of the best tractors made too .
+STEVE MILLER Deutz bought Allis-Chalmers Agriculture Division. Allis-Chalmers continued as a company through 1998. It was not an option for Deutz or later AGCO to use the Allis-Chalmers name.
Also because Massey Ferguson is one of the most widely known and popular brands worldwide compared ro Allis or White. It is strictly a business decision for consolidating their tractor branding for worldwide marketing.
The early 190XT Allis tractors were a contributing factor to AC's decline. Yes, there were numerous reasons, especially going into the horrible economy for AG equipment in the 80's, but the 190XT in particular left a lot of midwestern farmers looking at competitors models.
I had a good friend in high school who's dad worked as an engineer for AC in the late 60's and into the 70's. He had some interesting stories to tell about how things went down regarding the 190XT from an insider perspective in the engineering dept. See, the 190XT was originally slated to be designed for roughly 95 drawbar HP. So you had all these engineers at AC down in West Allis working to design this new tractor, broken up into groups. Some were doing the chassis, some were working on the transmission, etc etc. Well, the engine dept got carried away and designed themselves an engine that was dyno'ing out at right around 135HP. Now that might have sounded like a real good thing! Over achiever! but the design called for 95HP, and the rest of the tractor was designed around 95HP, including the famed rear ends. So the solution? Turn the fuel screw until the engine dyno'd out to about 100 or so HP.
Now, that worked for all the in house testing and proving ground durability tests, etc. But you know, here in the midwest back in the day, come county fair time the farmers would bring their shiny new tractors in to prove their worth at the tractor pulls to see which color paint could come out on top. And wouldn't you know, one of the oldest tricks in the book is to juice the fuel on a tractor to let it drink as much as it wants under hard load.
So of course, and unbeknownst to these farmers why, these 190XT tractors became the talk of the town when they started overachieving at these tractor pulls by a wide margin and beating out handily other brands in the same class. Word got around about how turning the fuel up brought out a bunch more power, and pretty soon you had guys pulling 7 bottom plows with what was supposed to be a 95 drawbar HP tractor.
And then the rear ends started blowing up. See, the extra power was enough to warp the input shaft into the rear end just enough the gears would not be fully engaged, and bad things happen to gears when they aren't fully engaged. Going back to some engineering talk, when the crew back at AC started hearing about this and did their own investigating, the fix was easy: just preload the bearings for the input shaft to accomodate the extra power. Adjustmenst was made on the production floor, and the later tractors went out and performed well. But that damage to AC's reputation had been done, even though the failures were caused by modifying the performance of the tractor, try telling that to the farmer who just had his shiny new tractor split the rear apart in the middle of spring tillage.
And whether it was warranted or not, stuff like that sticks with a company for a while. When i was little, and Dad and i talked about tractors(we used to get these big full page ads from local dealers on used equipment) and I asked about an AC 185 because our old JD 50 putt putt was getting pretty rough, his reply was that AC had problems with rear ends and transmissions. Now, this was before i had heard about a 190XT at all, and well before I had met my friend and his engineer dad. but those stories from the 60's and midwestern farmers having their tractors blow apart had hung around for a decade through word of mouth, even though it was one model, and only the early ones at that.
Anyway, that's hardly the sole reason AC had a rough go of it in the end, but that old story came to mind when the 190Xt showed up on this video. Reputation was a big deal for AG equipment in the 70's and especially 80's when the economy got rough.
Amazing amount of classic tractors, that 4w-220 is a real standout, once again thank you for taking the time to do these videos.
I love those small articulated 4wds too. Very versatile on the farm. I really would take one of a 305
1970 for the 220 and the 'smaller one' with the 190 style grille and and tin vs weighted front end casting is a 210. Same motor turned down a little just like they used that same 7 litre 426 size block all thru the 60s and 70s and even 80s from d21 to 8070 and 4w220 (rated at over twice the power of the original non-turbo D21 in 1963-5!)
I appreciate your knowledge and history. Such great videos!
Awesome with the lack of words, great heritage, they need to be dry stored unless it is up for sale, lovely video, thank You
Great job on the history, so cool to see those models all grouped together.
It’s a great dealership.
When I was a kid, our area was full of wd 45 ,and d14 , ca ,Allis ,Chalmers, and several john Deeres ,a d a few massey fergusons
I could spend all day walking around a big implement and tractor dealer lot! Love them all!
It’s fun seeing what might be on the lot.
Yep. Like going to the toy dept as a kid
Love the old AGCO stuff!!! I go by this dealership all the time. I think I'm going to try my hand at some farming videos, My brother works for Rivers Farms in this area and he asked if I would like to do some recording over there this year. Rivers is a pretty big operation in that area, maybe you guys would be interested in coming out if you're in the area.
First time subscriber this was a wonderful history lesson that's for sure thank you big time buddy
I always enjoyed I80 in Northwest OH because of a particular AC farmer.
Great video.
Thank you for the video
I love tractors and their rich unique history. Miss agco whites in particular
Always very interesting I enjoy your video's very much well done.
I find it interesting that you can go to a lot an find a history lesson an most folks see some old tractors
It all depends on your perspective . I get to film big 2016 machines all season long. That's fun. It's finding the classics and rare classics that makes it even more fun. When they are at work in the field even better. These big tractors of the 60s,70s and 80s are disappearing.
Love everything there
I never really understood the whole agco history and now it makes more sense. Knew a farmer who owned oliver, gleaner, allis, white, and sunflower. Makes a lot of sense now haha.
Sweet video thanks for posting it man
very nice tractors
I like the old tractors, wish Mayer was still in hillsboro, would run alot more agco if closer
thanks for the history lesson
if memory serves , the cabs & metal work were done as you said , but in GLEANER factories metal shops . atleast when i was in that line of work for a WHITE , A/C , Gleaner dealer , was the story they told us . tractors imported but finished by AGCO for USA market .
Love your videos . I am a 1 hour plus from them. Enjoy your videos on AGCO Brand Equipment. I am more AC,AGCO ,WHITE, but enjoy all brands that you video.Keep up what you do. Hope to meet you sometime. Wish you would come to Ohio Farm Science Review this week. I like to video , just don't put on the web to much .
worst thing agco has done is drop the oarnge paint
Yes, I agree. I think we are old school, I'm guessing they're trying to get rid of old orange Allis colors. I lived running out stuff, 8550, 200 and the open station 185 I grew up on picking rocks. Unstoppable little old machines. We abused the heck out of that 200 but still ran strong in 1991. Winter hauling bails and wood, and blowing snow. Did most of our seeding pulling a big heavy haybuster, could seed 150 acres with one hopper. Fuel savings was huge. We pulled a 12 bottom DMI with 8550.
Do you find any fendt’s of the 70’s 80’s or 90’s in the us? 626LSA from ‘83 would be something? Or the 500 and 800 favorit series from the 90’s with front axle suspension, 50km/h, load sensing hudraulics and 48/48 turboshift gearbox?
Have Agco 7600. Still runs with plenty of power. Parts arent too plentiful anymore.
I'd love to see the cab view of the 4w220
Pretty sure that 8070 and 4-w220 are Mayer’s personal machines and are serial number 1’s.
Yes they are.
Those Allis Chalmers with turf tires are tough looking
They sure are.
Just curious why you put turf tires on larger tractors and combines?
Don't mean to be negative, but one of those Two-Twenty's was a Two-Ten..The smaller grill gave it away! :)
Man I love Allis-Chalmers
It is awesome I love it on the big Oliver fan And as you know International harvester
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@@bigtractorpower The best channel on CZcams
I want that 2655 soooooo bad!
I don't care what they call it, or whst color they paint it, if it didn't come out when the company was still headquartered in West Allis, it might as well be pink.
Anonymous joe amen
Very interestining
are any of those for sale, or are they customer tractors?
Do they still make a straight a AGCO tractor
They should have kept AGCO going as a tractor brand.
@Josh Gerding they should never have closed Coldwater.
They shouldve kept all the brands. Sell off the names or something
Do you want to know where the 1st 4020 is at
Must have been some big Allis territory back in the day.
There's your 2655 that you are looking for!!!
Ohh yeah bout 30 min south of me. We have had several Allis' and gleaners' come from there or parts. In our part of the neighborhood about 70% of our neighbors ran Orange. That Oliver look good on you!
You really need something orange in the shed
lot of oarnge still around me in nw ohio
This store is close to my neck of the woods and I have been there many times getting parts. There was a store also in Wilmington which was what I lived by in High School. They sold a lot of DA equipment out of that store. A lot of Deere guys had switched to DA tractors at that time or switched to Gleaner combines. I drove a Deutz Allis orange 9150 MFWD in High School pulling a 30' DA disk. I also cultivated a lot of soybeans using that tractor. It was a nice machine to run all day and had plenty of power for its size.
How about a short history of the other unit of agco, New Idea, I live 10 miles from Coldwater Ohio, while it was a "short line" company, they were quite innovative, The UNI System gets short shift and it really was quite unique, the 708 and up were really a nice machine, I have a 708 with a picker on it, used it till maybe this year on 50 acres, may still do a little picking in the future just for kicks. New Idea had a rotary sheller for it, years ago they were using it on the seminary farm on beans and wheat, if Avco hadn't cut off research money new idea could have been one of the first rotary combines on the market, oh well all gone now
the tractores for sal e?
I would like to have that 220 or 190
Unfortunately, that dealer has turned me off to heritage Agco. They are an arm and a leg for parts on older machines, and don't seem to care since I'm so small.
Sorry you feel that way about us. If you need anything else please don't hesitate to call and ask for me and I'll see if our parts are really out of line by checking for other options for you. Parts prices have went up in the last 30 years, but we are still competitive and we have $1.75 Million in inventory, so on smaller, harder to inventory items we do charge a bit more to try and offset our manpower costs. We value all of our customers, large or small, and we also try to stock the parts that people need so you don't have to order everything every time. That is not cheap, and it is also not common in a dealership anymore. That is how we try to set ourselves apart. Thank you!
Well people want to pay the same today that they paid 25 years ago.
maverick12212000 I’m not sure if this reply is directed at me or not, but I’ll just say that it is not possible to maintain the same prices for 25 years. Nothing else in the world works that way, so I’m not sure why you would even honestly believe that is a possibility for machinery parts. My offer still stands to contact me to parts pricing questions.
No Chris, it's directed at the people that think parts for 30 plus year old equipment that's been discontinued should be given away. Not directed at you at all.
maverick12212000 just checking, and I agree totally. When I need parts for our forklift, or a pickup truck, or the new Peterbilt we have to have to deliver to our customers, I just have to pay them and go on. I either need the parts or don’t.
heritage
Agco should do silver retro paint on Masseys
Or just bring white back.
It would be neat to see classic colors.
Very cool. I was at a consignment sale in Fremont, Ohio this spring and they had a four wheel drive AC in the line up. Supposedly at one time it was owned Loretta Lynn's family. Can't verify it, but that's what they said before they auctioned it off, didn't really help the price on the old girl.
Loretta Lynn's ranch hosted many Allis-Chalmers events. There is even a Loretta Lynn/Allis record. That 4wd very may well have been hers.
+bigtractorpower That's pretty neat. I never knew that, never looked into it. Being it was at a consignment sale, it's easy to assume they were full of crap.
What’s the name of that dealership?
Mayer Equipment
Thanks a lot mr Jason do you know if they sell allis charmers parts ?
I would think they do. They are an awesome dealer.
Allis chalmers is the best out of white and oliver
sale
babys
Thank you for lesson on ago. .the name ago and Allis Chalmers were in the same family And I know ago Allis Chalmers was way ahead of john Deere . Farmall and ihc . I want to know why ago killed the name Allis Chalmers. ?? I now Allis Chalmers were some of the best tractors made too .
+STEVE MILLER Deutz bought Allis-Chalmers Agriculture Division. Allis-Chalmers continued as a company through 1998. It was not an option for Deutz or later AGCO to use the Allis-Chalmers name.
Not trying to be a wisguy name me one todays combine that can harvest seed as small as the allcrop could ? Such as grass seed.
Gleaner...we sell them to customers in Florida that harvest grass seed, clovers, etc.
Also because Massey Ferguson is one of the most widely known and popular brands worldwide compared ro Allis or White.
It is strictly a business decision for consolidating their tractor branding for worldwide marketing.
Ohio!! Lol
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