Who in the world was saying a longer barrel was slower? A longer barrel produces more energy also. It would have to be ridiculously loooonnnng to adversely affect it.
People who know ballistics. In general, yes, a longer barrel will give you more velocity and energy. BUT!!!….. every caliber has a sweet spot. And some ammo will be faster out of a 14” barrel, then say it would be out of a 20” barrel. It doesn’t have to be ridiculously looooooonnng to adversely affect it.
We tested (cowboy rounds) revolver rounds out of rifles. In almost every case, the revolver gave higher velocity. I believe the round expended it's energy rapidly in the first part of the barrel then was slowed by fiction as it continued through the barrel.
Pistol catridge didn't slow down until you reach ridiculous number, and at that point people would question "why you have barrel that long" 10mm cartridge is suitable to around 18 inch, but longer than 16 inch is overdoing it.
It's kind of about max pressure and expansion ratio. 'Handgun' powders burn quickly but higher pressures (jacketed vs lead) don't fall off as quickly as many expect. Example: CB Long is rated say 710 fps. From my 4" Ruger KP4 or my 23 1/2" ZKM I chrono'd 700fps. I concluded that pressure after the powder burn offset friction of the longer barrel. YMMV but I imagine .460 & /.500 S&W gain quite a bit from a longer barrel, esp vs such as .45 LC. IMO it's motly about max pressure vs expansion ratio. (AKA case capacity vs barrel volume)
Depending on the powder I have found 10mm is optimized at around 9” barrel. But the longer barrel ,isn’t loosing velocity just not gaining allot more. That gun looks like a very nice deer hunting rig.
Depending on the powder type used in a 10mm you can see gains even up to 18 inches of burn time. Unless a fast powder type is used but that's when reloading for your barrel length is optimal.
That's why the German submachine guns were so popular in WW2. The longer barrel gave the 9mm more velocity and power than the same round out of a pistol. Some rounds gain more velocity than others. The more case capacity and slower powders gain more. The 357 and 44mag are outstanding out of a carbine barrel. The 10mm ought to gain 40% more energy out of a 16 inch barrel with the right powder Is that a Glock magazine you are inserting into that carbine?
longer then average 22lr barrels actually slow down the projectile. Learned that from Paul Harrel. Anything with more pressure then a 22lr, more barrel length should help
In my experience, longer barrel = more velocity up to a point. It can eventually reach a point of diminishing returns. The 14 vs 16 would be interesting to see for the purpose of exploring where the point of diminishing returns is.
I don't know about 10mm, but for a 9mm optimal barrel length is between 16 to 18 inches, depending on whether you're shooting standard rounds or +P/+P+. My Chaszel 12 gauge barrel adapter in 9mm has an 18" inch barrel and slings rounds on average 300-350 more FPS than a 5" barrel, up to 600 with Liberty Civil Defense. With LCD ammo the 18" barrel is making 800 ft-lbs of muzzle energy lol.
Only those who do not reload would say that a pistol/revolver round would be slower out of a longer barrel. This does happen to some .22lr rounds where the powder burn ends around 16 inches. I loaded some .38 special rounds and they were making 820 fps out of a 6 inch barrel and 1250 fps out of a 24 inch barrel. It all depends on the burn speed of the powder.
While it is possible to reach a point of diminishing returns regarding barrel length and bullet speed, under all "normal" circumstances a longer barrel will ALWAYS give higher velocities. The example that comes to mind is a 22LR with a 29 inch barrel (yes, there were some made). The 22LR achieves max velocity in 24 inches (assuming standard loadings). In a 29 inch barrel you will actually see a very slight drop in velocity when compared to 24 inches and "standard" 22LR. The real issue here is "how much difference?" And that determination is entirely subjective based upon chosen equipment. For ALL, repeat ALL normal choices and calibers a longer barrel will ALWAYS give higher velocities.
I would guess that most pistol caliber like the 9mm .40 and 10 mm would gain speed until about 10~ 12 inches. After that it will begin to lose some speed.
Another CZcamsr did a test with a very long barrel. The starting point was something like 6 feet. Then the barrel was cut down in increments as testing continued. The conclusion was the larger calibers had speed increases up to 28 inches. While smaller calibers like .22Lr, had speed increases up to about 20 inches or so.
With some cartridges that use a case with a very small capacity, like 25 ACP, 22LR they don't contain enough powder to maintain a long enough burn time to gain much if any with longer barrels. I recall testing done and found that 22LR most standard loads with rifle barrels about 16” gets a complete powder burn and nets fastest velocity. Longer barrels gain a bit more velocity but when they get long enough, like in excess of 30" the velocity can be lower. Going from pistol barrel lengths of under 6" to carbine length of 16" you will get gains. At what case capacity these gains become substantial, I can't say. I have worked with the 44Mag in revolvers with 5.5 to 7.5 inches and a Marlin 1894. Most loads that get top velocity in the revolvers got 400 fps+ in the Marlin. Light loads not so much. Most load manuals have data for some handgun cartridges in both the rifle and handgun sections. Comparing them will prove to most how much you gain in the longer barrel. Some even have two handgun sections. One for regular handguns and one for single shots like the TC Contender and Remington bolt action. These sections have barrel lengths of 10" and 14". These sections also have many rifle cartridges shot out of these 10" to 14" barrels.
Also, my 10mm Smith and Wesson will run 40 pretty well, and I'm sad to say that in some name brands, there is very little difference . Truth in advertising? Not so much 😕
Once upon a time, in the earlier days of the internet, a website published the muzzle velocity vs barrel length. It documented the cutting down of long barrels and machining them clean and, a variety of ammos. I was pleased to see 9MM usually peaked out with a 16' barrel which is what the carbine I have sports. There were some issues with the owners of that website and it has since disappeared.
My PCC has a 10" bbl but I mainly shoot heavy subs in it due to it being a suppressed SBR, Cor-Bon PowRball for defense ammo if your PCC is defense ammo finicky like most.
Ballistics by the inch's website was a more thorough version of that process for many calibers, they have stopped doing testing but the website is still up.
As WTW mentioned he wants to hunt deer with the 10mm. Some states this carbine he has is the only way to use a handgun cartridge to hunt deer. Here in NY you can't hunt deer with a handgun but getting the permit to have one is very hard to get. So to hunt with a handgun cartridge you need to get a rifle chamber in a handgun cartridge to do it. I think this applies to many states that say you can hunt with handguns but you need to jump through expecive and timely hoops to get the proper paperwork first. In this scenario the extra velocity can be an advantage. If you don't want the extra velocity you can hand load down to the velocity you want. For many shooting a small light weight carbine like the one shown is easier to shoot accurately in a defensive situation. Most any shooter can testify to this. How much easier is it to learn how to shoot a rifle than a handgun.
Fort Scott Munitions 10MM 125gr TUI round is going 1,600fps out of a 5 inch barrel and 2,000 fps out of my TNW ASR 10MM rifle... works great on deer and bear.
I've got a 12 gauge barrel adapter from Chaszel chambered in 9mm with an 18 inch barrel. I get on average 300-350 more FPS than a 5" barrel with most rounds, up to 600 FPS with Liberty Civil Defense. Longer barrels definitely don't slow a bullet down, up to a point anyways, anything past 18 inches and you do actually lose velocity, though the shot is much quieter...
The only time I ever had a longer barrel give lower velocity was with standard velocity 22LR in a 26 inch target rifle. And the loss wasn't much. Noise level was dramatically lower.
I have heard this discussion about 22 LR rifles. Not about the 10 mm. Apparently, 22 LR bullets are getting best velocity out of 16" or 18" barrels. (Not the 22" or 24" barrels, which have been popular in the past.)
A longer barrel can slow down a pistol round, not usually though. It all depends on the type of powder in the case. Fast burning powder may fully burn half way down the barrel, to the second half of the barrel is just resistance as the gas expansion from the powder burn ended too early. Again, this is not typical, longer usually equals faster.
10mm ammo varies alot in velocity. Some is only slightly faster than 40 S&W. Sig sauer is full house ammo. 180 @ 1250 fps. Lots of others out there are really good also. The original Norma loaded ammo was pounding the Colt Delta Elite to pieces. Cracking frames etc. Get some dies for the 10mm, roll out some of your own ammo.
brotha adam , talk to older military guys like me n they will tell you we shot colts n such in the 50 calibers , very long barrel , so you are correct there ,i shot 50's from humvee's n 5 ton's n from the ground and i was not a grunt either , great stuff brotha , everytime you fire , thats freedom for us as americans , talk soon . tom !
Id like to see some hornady 10mm 180grain xtp rounds on chrono. One of the few common store bought hunting options we have in Canada other than underwood and buffalo bore.
Used to have a KelTec folder in .40 S&W. I discovered that the heaver bullets (180gr) did not gain a lot of velocity from the 16” barrel compared to the G23. There was some, so technically it gained fps, but not enough to be considered a big difference. Lighter bullets (135 or 150 gr.) did gain more, but I do not remember the numbers.
158 gr. target 38 Special is about the same velocity from a 20" lever gun as a 6" revolver. It also sounds like a 22 LR. Lighter +P defensive loads pick up some velocity but not much. They're much louder too. 357 Mag picks up considerable velocity from the 20" barrel though.
From what I've seen. In 22lr 32 acp 25 acp a longer barrel does hurt velocity and even 380 acp is pretty sensitive to barrel length. For 380 acp 3.50 to 6 inches is about the best it can be. At 7 inches and more the barrel does start creating drag. But in calibers like 9mm, 10mm, 45acp they all tend to do well with barrel length up to 16 inches. Run that test again with a 22 inch or 24 inch barrel and see if don't start slowing it down some. Sometimes there is too much of good thing that starts to hurt you.
I can handload 40 to 1115fps with a 180gr pill out of a 4" barrel using like 7gr of longshot which is less than max per hogdon data. 10mm is grossly underpowered in factory form.
I believe you're 100% right, I've heard the same thing about the 300BO...wonder if that's true as well? I've been told that it's faster in a 10" barrel than a 16" we'll only know if we check.
It stands for aero survival rifle and has a ton of caliber kits for it I believe 9 40 45 10 and the other one you have mentioned 454 casule I believe but yeah there good but I would say file mag it helps
I need to test out my reloads. I currently load a 180gr LFP polymer coated bullet over a max load of Blue Dot. Out of a Dan Wesson Silverback 10mm 1911, I got 1400 fps. If I could ever get my hands on a carbine like yours, I'd want to test it out first chance I got. I suspect at least 200 fps more from the carbine, maybe more.
In my opinion, the longer barrel will produce higher velocities. In 9MM, it's not as much because most 9MM ammo is loaded with a fast burning powder to help be more efficient in a pistol length barrel, so a 16" barrel will not deliver as much of a difference in 9. A 10MM cartridge is normally loaded with a slower burning powder so a longer barrel, such as your 16 incher will increase the velocity better. If you ever handload 10MM, you can tailor the round for that longer barrel and get even faster velocities out of it. Love the channel! Keep the videos comning!
A long barrel helps with slow powders that can keep pressures high over the barrel length. Fast small powder charges can indeed run out of gas literally, before the end of the barrel.
If you are going to use pistol caliber ammo in a carbine, then the powder load and powder used must be adjusted to account for the length of the barrel, the bullet weight and powder burn rate. I have a 357 Magnum revolver and a 357 Magnum rifle. The loads are different for each firearm.
Haven't seen the firing portion yet, nor read any comments. I would say that the longer barrel will give more velocity since the 10mm has a decent case volume. I will EDIT TO ADD when I get done with the video. EDIT TO ADD: I was right, the longer barrel does increase the velocity. There is a large enough case volume for a powder charge that can take advantage of the longer barrel.
Longer barrel is good. You don't really suffer diminishing point up until some ridiculous length, even if it was maybe 16 to 18 inch for a pistol cartridge. A snub-nosed pistol carbine is an oxymoron.
I was always told the longer the barrel the faster the round travels because it spends more time in the energy gaining speed before it leaves the barrel.
If .22lr can profit from a longer barrel, anything should (except maybe stuff like 6mm Flobert). Yes there is a drop-off point where longer barrels don't add speed but reduce it, and it's around 18" for .22lr (someone tested it a few years ago).
I know a 22lr will slow down after 18" or so. Small cases, just not enough poop behind them. Target rifles with long barrels and open sights Have like 6" of open barrel at the end, which just lengthens the sight distance.
9 and 10 mm are optimized at about 9 to 10 inches with little gain after that. 357 and 44 mag keep gaining to about 16 inches similarly. Super long barrels only help high velocity rifle loads...short barrels defeat them. A hot 10mm out of a 10" barrel has more energy than a 300 BO out of an 8" - you lose half or more of potential energy going that direction.
Anyone who actually went to science class in school knows that the longer the gas from the expended cartridge has to burn, the more force it will generate. "Physics don't lie..." (Yes, I went to English class, too). Hey, bud, I have a 1911 by Alpha Foxtrot (custom maker from Duluth, GA) in 10mm and it's an amazing machine, a 10 carbine would be terrific. I have a well massaged (by yours truly) Glock 21 pistol *and* a second G21, also reworked, attached to a Mech Tech carbine upper (no registration, it's just an upper! 😊) in M4 configuration in .45ACP and it kicks butt. Think of a modernized Tommy gun w/27rd. sticks. Anyway, it absolutely gives more burn time and faster speeds than the 4 3/4" barrel. Unless you have so much barrel fouling that it's impeding the bullet, there's no way it will give a slower speed. 😊 The reason a lot of people never get the speeds listed on the box of hunting/rifle ammo is because a lot of companies use a 26" barrel for their testing and rating data. Them people use an 18/20" barrel and say the ammo is crap cause it never hits the listed speeds but, it's not the ammo, it's the shooter's choice of firearm.
I like the 10" barrel for the TNW , mine jams too, maybe ders a boer in der. Need to clean up the ramp. When you take it apart it looks like they put it together with home depot hardware. I'll bet the 10" shoots faster than the 16"?
The speed of the bullet coming from the barrel is all dependent on the powder charge that was used when it was loaded. The type of powder and the quantity of powder. Because the right right powder and it will still be burning at 16 in barrel length
.357 mag always seems to gain the most out of a long barrel, well, carbine length. Pistol cartridges generally not as much. .41 mag does ok too. .44 mag not quite as much. Never seen data on .38 special, would think that would be good as well.
Longer barrel length generally means higher velocity in everything except perhaps a .22lr. That said, the marginal cost of quadrupling the barrel length doesn't yield a proportional increase in velocity. If you take a .308, for example, and cut it down to 5", you're going to see a dramatic loss in velocity, and a much greater proportional difference. This is because pistol powders are generally faster burning than rifle powders.
You want the optimum length for the ammo, but 16” is the best to avoid the ATF. I would just default to the right ammo for the 16” barrel and use shorter barrel ammo in pistols which don’t need to be registered. 😊
Will removing the barrel and remount it change the POI? And if, how much? And if sighted in at 50 where will the POI be at 100 if you do not compensate for drop, and if you set it up for 100 what will you get at 20 40 60 80, will it hit inside the vitals? On all ranges or be outside if to close, or midway? On a deer how big is the vital zone? If you are within half of that at the bench will it suffice in a hunting scenario, where the exact distance is probably not known?
That's a bit more scientific than my ear test. I remember taking my first two 9mm guns, an XDS 3.3" and my HiPoint carbine, to the range. You could easily hear the impact difference between the two on a steel target. An extra 200fps does add a fair amount of energy. But how the bullet responds to the extra velocity is also important. Will it expand properly?
My vote is that the laws of nature will continue to be inviolate, i.e. a higher velocity will result from the longer barrel. This is why we like your videos WTW, you put it to the test. Now watch, someone will complain you did it wrong because you had a can in the carbine, thus affecting pressure / muzzle velocity. LOL
I have joined the 10 mm revolution. I will be trying the BCA 16" barrel 10 mm rig to record muzzle velocities I suspect without a suppressor you could get 1400-1450 fps. Why don't you try it without the can too? It is very possible you could get over 2000 fps using the 135 grain or lower weight rounds. Almost as much energy as a 556!
Cooper's original specification was 200 grains at 1,000fps (very close to the .40 S&W we eventually got). Norma's load was 170 grain JHP at 1,300 or a 200 grain at 1200, they insisted on pushing the capabilities like that as a marketing gimmick. I consider it a big factor in dooming the round to obscurity because it lead to excessive wear on pistols, overbuilt pistols to compensate, and excessive recoil.
If you really want some big speed gains out of the 10 then try Underwood 135 or 155 grain ammo. The test i saw was over 2000fps with the 135 and over 1900 with the 155! I think the test gun was a mech tech carbine with a 16 inch barrel.
Send me that TNW ASR 10mm with one of the mags that came with it and I will repair it. I am a gunsmith in WI. I will pull the magazine catch/release, file off the upper side of the catch block, recoat it for rust prevention, reassemble and test, then ship it back for free.
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As Paul says..."enough of a difference to make a difference "
Also, Paul Harrell says “velocity should increase with longer barrel, up to a point”. It depends many factors like powder type, bullet, etc.
The Hi-Point pistol slows down the bullet by shaming it.
I wouldn't have thought he would even own a Hi Point
@leonrussel9444 have you not seen this channel before? He always buys the affordable stuff.
@@Strelnikov10 as many guns as he's buys I should have known he would have a little bit of everything
Shhhhhhh! Lmao 😂😂😂
LOL....HAHAHA
Who in the world was saying a longer barrel was slower? A longer barrel produces more energy also. It would have to be ridiculously loooonnnng to adversely affect it.
People who know ballistics. In general, yes, a longer barrel will give you more velocity and energy. BUT!!!….. every caliber has a sweet spot. And some ammo will be faster out of a 14” barrel, then say it would be out of a 20” barrel. It doesn’t have to be ridiculously looooooonnng to adversely affect it.
i think i know what some people were thinking cuz at a point the riffling will drag on the bullet cuz the powder is exhausted 16 is not that point tho
We tested (cowboy rounds) revolver rounds out of rifles. In almost every case, the revolver gave higher velocity. I believe the round expended it's energy rapidly in the first part of the barrel then was slowed by fiction as it continued through the barrel.
Pistol catridge didn't slow down until you reach ridiculous number, and at that point people would question "why you have barrel that long"
10mm cartridge is suitable to around 18 inch, but longer than 16 inch is overdoing it.
It's kind of about max pressure and expansion ratio. 'Handgun' powders burn quickly but higher pressures (jacketed vs lead) don't fall off as quickly as many expect. Example: CB Long is rated say 710 fps. From my 4" Ruger KP4 or my 23 1/2" ZKM I chrono'd 700fps. I concluded that pressure after the powder burn offset friction of the longer barrel. YMMV but I imagine .460 & /.500 S&W gain quite a bit from a longer barrel, esp vs such as .45 LC. IMO it's motly about max pressure vs expansion ratio. (AKA case capacity vs barrel volume)
Depending on the powder I have found 10mm is optimized at around 9” barrel. But the longer barrel ,isn’t loosing velocity just not gaining allot more. That gun looks like a very nice deer hunting rig.
Depending on the powder type used in a 10mm you can see gains even up to 18 inches of burn time. Unless a fast powder type is used but that's when reloading for your barrel length is optimal.
@@cassandramangum1894 absolutely
That's why the German submachine guns were so popular in WW2. The longer barrel gave the 9mm more velocity and power than the same round out of a pistol.
Some rounds gain more velocity than others. The more case capacity and slower powders gain more.
The 357 and 44mag are outstanding out of a carbine barrel.
The 10mm ought to gain 40% more energy out of a 16 inch barrel with the right powder
Is that a Glock magazine you are inserting into that carbine?
Yea, these take Glock mags, but I think it comes with an off-brand copy.
Hence the Hornady Lever Revolution Rounds in .357...yup
longer then average 22lr barrels actually slow down the projectile. Learned that from Paul Harrel. Anything with more pressure then a 22lr, more barrel length should help
In my experience, longer barrel = more velocity up to a point. It can eventually reach a point of diminishing returns. The 14 vs 16 would be interesting to see for the purpose of exploring where the point of diminishing returns is.
Per BBTI 16 inch is about the longest you want. Peak velocity is 18 inch but you don't want to gamble with squibs.
I don't know about 10mm, but for a 9mm optimal barrel length is between 16 to 18 inches, depending on whether you're shooting standard rounds or +P/+P+. My Chaszel 12 gauge barrel adapter in 9mm has an 18" inch barrel and slings rounds on average 300-350 more FPS than a 5" barrel, up to 600 with Liberty Civil Defense. With LCD ammo the 18" barrel is making 800 ft-lbs of muzzle energy lol.
Interesting insights on how barrel length affects velocity with 10mm rounds!
Longer is nearly always faster , within reasonable lengths . Snubs suffer greatly .
Only those who do not reload would say that a pistol/revolver round would be slower out of a longer barrel. This does happen to some .22lr rounds where the powder burn ends around 16 inches. I loaded some .38 special rounds and they were making 820 fps out of a 6 inch barrel and 1250 fps out of a 24 inch barrel. It all depends on the burn speed of the powder.
While it is possible to reach a point of diminishing returns regarding barrel length and bullet speed, under all "normal" circumstances a longer barrel will ALWAYS give higher velocities.
The example that comes to mind is a 22LR with a 29 inch barrel (yes, there were some made). The 22LR achieves max velocity in 24 inches (assuming standard loadings). In a 29 inch barrel you will actually see a very slight drop in velocity when compared to 24 inches and "standard" 22LR.
The real issue here is "how much difference?" And that determination is entirely subjective based upon chosen equipment.
For ALL, repeat ALL normal choices and calibers a longer barrel will ALWAYS give higher velocities.
I would guess that most pistol caliber like the 9mm .40 and 10 mm would gain speed until about 10~ 12 inches. After that it will begin to lose some speed.
The yeet cannon should be fully automatic
The pistol cartridge that gleans the most gains out of barrel length is the .357 magnum..
What is the source of your information? I'd like to check it out. Thanks.
@@ke3552 Look at any .357 magnum lever gun video on youtube or google a ballistics table , ballistics by the inch is a good one ..
Another CZcamsr did a test with a very long barrel. The starting point was something like 6 feet. Then the barrel was cut down in increments as testing continued. The conclusion was the larger calibers had speed increases up to 28 inches. While smaller calibers like .22Lr, had speed increases up to about 20 inches or so.
First thought was your crazy second thought, content!!
I also heard the same criticism of 9mm in a 16 inch barrel being slower. Thanks for the video
Thanks for watching
Good data and cool rifle!
With some cartridges that use a case with a very small capacity, like 25 ACP, 22LR they don't contain enough powder to maintain a long enough burn time to gain much if any with longer barrels.
I recall testing done and found that 22LR most standard loads with rifle barrels about 16” gets a complete powder burn and nets fastest velocity. Longer barrels gain a bit more velocity but when they get long enough, like in excess of 30" the velocity can be lower.
Going from pistol barrel lengths of under 6" to carbine length of 16" you will get gains. At what case capacity these gains become substantial, I can't say. I have worked with the 44Mag in revolvers with 5.5 to 7.5 inches and a Marlin 1894. Most loads that get top velocity in the revolvers got 400 fps+ in the Marlin. Light loads not so much.
Most load manuals have data for some handgun cartridges in both the rifle and handgun sections. Comparing them will prove to most how much you gain in the longer barrel.
Some even have two handgun sections. One for regular handguns and one for single shots like the TC Contender and Remington bolt action. These sections have barrel lengths of 10" and 14". These sections also have many rifle cartridges shot out of these 10" to 14" barrels.
I believe that a 10 or a 12 inch barrel will give the best velocity. Good show. I would love to hear about the hunt . Thanks
Also, my 10mm Smith and Wesson will run 40 pretty well, and I'm sad to say that in some name brands, there is very little difference . Truth in advertising? Not so much 😕
Possibly. MP5s are 8.9" in 9mmP.
Depends on when the powder quits burning.
Once upon a time, in the earlier days of the internet, a website published the muzzle velocity vs barrel length. It documented the cutting down of long barrels and machining them clean and, a variety of ammos. I was pleased to see 9MM usually peaked out with a 16' barrel which is what the carbine I have sports. There were some issues with the owners of that website and it has since disappeared.
My PCC has a 10" bbl but I mainly shoot heavy subs in it due to it being a suppressed SBR, Cor-Bon PowRball for defense ammo if your PCC is defense ammo finicky like most.
Ballistics by the inch's website was a more thorough version of that process for many calibers, they have stopped doing testing but the website is still up.
It's always a good watch everytime a hi point makes a video appearance.
Exact results I expected
On the TNW website they actually ran tests on various rounds of .357sig and 10mm.
Paul Harrell knew the longer barrel , to a point, will increase the speed
As WTW mentioned he wants to hunt deer with the 10mm. Some states this carbine he has is the only way to use a handgun cartridge to hunt deer. Here in NY you can't hunt deer with a handgun but getting the permit to have one is very hard to get. So to hunt with a handgun cartridge you need to get a rifle chamber in a handgun cartridge to do it. I think this applies to many states that say you can hunt with handguns but you need to jump through expecive and timely hoops to get the proper paperwork first.
In this scenario the extra velocity can be an advantage. If you don't want the extra velocity you can hand load down to the velocity you want.
For many shooting a small light weight carbine like the one shown is easier to shoot accurately in a defensive situation. Most any shooter can testify to this. How much easier is it to learn how to shoot a rifle than a handgun.
Grew up in NY. Was shotgun only deer territory, but could use 357 or 44 mag pistol too.
Going to be at least two hundred feet per second I chimed in at four minutes and twenty two seconds
If that was the case all them Weatherby magnums would have a carbine length barrel.
I already know the answer, but still gotta watch the video.
Fort Scott Munitions 10MM 125gr TUI round is going 1,600fps out of a 5 inch barrel and 2,000 fps out of my TNW ASR 10MM rifle... works great on deer and bear.
I've got a 12 gauge barrel adapter from Chaszel chambered in 9mm with an 18 inch barrel. I get on average 300-350 more FPS than a 5" barrel with most rounds, up to 600 FPS with Liberty Civil Defense. Longer barrels definitely don't slow a bullet down, up to a point anyways, anything past 18 inches and you do actually lose velocity, though the shot is much quieter...
Awesome video! Thanks for sharing your data!
The only time I ever had a longer barrel give lower velocity was with standard velocity 22LR in a 26 inch target rifle. And the loss wasn't much. Noise level was dramatically lower.
I have heard this discussion about 22 LR rifles. Not about the 10 mm. Apparently, 22 LR bullets are getting best velocity out of 16" or 18" barrels. (Not the 22" or 24" barrels, which have been popular in the past.)
A longer barrel can slow down a pistol round, not usually though. It all depends on the type of powder in the case. Fast burning powder may fully burn half way down the barrel, to the second half of the barrel is just resistance as the gas expansion from the powder burn ended too early. Again, this is not typical, longer usually equals faster.
10mm ammo varies alot in velocity. Some is only slightly faster than 40 S&W. Sig sauer is full house ammo. 180 @ 1250 fps.
Lots of others out there are really good also. The original Norma loaded ammo was pounding the Colt Delta Elite to pieces. Cracking frames etc. Get some dies for the 10mm, roll out some of your own ammo.
Most of that 10mm ammo is weak, grab some underwood, buffalobore or doubletap and youll get much better results.
Yeah Ive heard this alot. Most 10mm rounds arent loaded to potential because the 9mm fan boys find too much recoil
@@Eyespydthat’s actually the fbi but yeah same point
True. Most 10mm factory ammo is deliberately anemic. I load my own.
Rim fires with barrel length of 26-28"'s long possibly so. Old gallery loads probably. Sometimes they'd just fall out off the barrel or get stuck.
Factory .45 acp ball ammo clocks at 1,150ish fps out of mine, so this didn't surprise me at all.
My guess on your first shot was 1,100 fps.👍
brotha adam , talk to older military guys like me n they will tell you we shot colts n such in the 50 calibers , very long barrel , so you are correct there ,i shot 50's from humvee's n 5 ton's n from the ground and i was not a grunt either , great stuff brotha , everytime you fire , thats freedom for us as americans , talk soon . tom !
Id like to see some hornady 10mm 180grain xtp rounds on chrono. One of the few common store bought hunting options we have in Canada other than underwood and buffalo bore.
Used to have a KelTec folder in .40 S&W. I discovered that the heaver bullets (180gr) did not gain a lot of velocity from the 16” barrel compared to the G23. There was some, so technically it gained fps, but not enough to be considered a big difference. Lighter bullets (135 or 150 gr.) did gain more, but I do not remember the numbers.
That's proof why we can't predict what one load or caliber will do when we change barrel length or ammo. 👍
158 gr. target 38 Special is about the same velocity from a 20" lever gun as a 6" revolver. It also sounds like a 22 LR. Lighter +P defensive loads pick up some velocity but not much. They're much louder too. 357 Mag picks up considerable velocity from the 20" barrel though.
From what I've seen. In 22lr 32 acp 25 acp a longer barrel does hurt velocity and even 380 acp is pretty sensitive to barrel length. For 380 acp 3.50 to 6 inches is about the best it can be. At 7 inches and more the barrel does start creating drag. But in calibers like 9mm, 10mm, 45acp they all tend to do well with barrel length up to 16 inches. Run that test again with a 22 inch or 24 inch barrel and see if don't start slowing it down some. Sometimes there is too much of good thing that starts to hurt you.
Those FMJs weren't going much faster than the same bullet out of a 40.
I can handload 40 to 1115fps with a 180gr pill out of a 4" barrel using like 7gr of longshot which is less than max per hogdon data. 10mm is grossly underpowered in factory form.
@@MikeMalkowski I agree, because I do the same thing.
10mm is really overrated. Only slightly better ballistics than .40.
I believe you're 100% right, I've heard the same thing about the 300BO...wonder if that's true as well? I've been told that it's faster in a 10" barrel than a 16" we'll only know if we check.
It stands for aero survival rifle and has a ton of caliber kits for it I believe 9 40 45 10 and the other one you have mentioned 454 casule I believe but yeah there good but I would say file mag it helps
I need to test out my reloads. I currently load a 180gr LFP polymer coated bullet over a max load of Blue Dot. Out of a Dan Wesson Silverback 10mm 1911, I got 1400 fps. If I could ever get my hands on a carbine like yours, I'd want to test it out first chance I got. I suspect at least 200 fps more from the carbine, maybe more.
That’s a cool gun. I like it a lot!
Faster with the longer barrel
Thanks!
10mm hipoint carbine myself.
I've got one too and it rocks!
Love that Rig & You are the Man.
Thanks for watching!
Yes it does
I'd really like a 10mm bufferless pdw..... like a mp5 but in10mm. I know stribog offers 1 but it's not quite as compact as I'd like.
In my opinion, the longer barrel will produce higher velocities. In 9MM, it's not as much because most 9MM ammo is loaded with a fast burning powder to help be more efficient in a pistol length barrel, so a 16" barrel will not deliver as much of a difference in 9. A 10MM cartridge is normally loaded with a slower burning powder so a longer barrel, such as your 16 incher will increase the velocity better. If you ever handload 10MM, you can tailor the round for that longer barrel and get even faster velocities out of it. Love the channel! Keep the videos comning!
any cicadas where you are...can hardly here ya vs them....j/k....they are sweet background music.
So many
I've always been intrigued by the nuances of barrel length and its impact on performance.
A long barrel helps with slow powders that can keep pressures high over the barrel length. Fast small powder charges can indeed run out of gas literally, before the end of the barrel.
If you are going to use pistol caliber ammo in a carbine, then the powder load and powder used must be adjusted to account for the length of the barrel, the bullet weight and powder burn rate.
I have a 357 Magnum revolver and a 357 Magnum rifle. The loads are different for each firearm.
For some reason I wanna call that The Joker’s PCR (Jack Nicholson’s Joker) cuz the long barrel with suppressor reminds me of his Batwing killer
🤘 😁 🤘 I think their theory applies more so with 45acp.. Not sure though
Haven't seen the firing portion yet, nor read any comments. I would say that the longer barrel will give more velocity since the 10mm has a decent case volume. I will EDIT TO ADD when I get done with the video.
EDIT TO ADD: I was right, the longer barrel does increase the velocity. There is a large enough case volume for a powder charge that can take advantage of the longer barrel.
Longer barrel is good. You don't really suffer diminishing point up until some ridiculous length, even if it was maybe 16 to 18 inch for a pistol cartridge.
A snub-nosed pistol carbine is an oxymoron.
This is about to be a fun video!
Thanks for watching!
I was always told the longer the barrel the faster the round travels because it spends more time in the energy gaining speed before it leaves the barrel.
If .22lr can profit from a longer barrel, anything should (except maybe stuff like 6mm Flobert). Yes there is a drop-off point where longer barrels don't add speed but reduce it, and it's around 18" for .22lr (someone tested it a few years ago).
I know a 22lr will slow down after 18" or so. Small cases, just not enough poop behind them. Target rifles with long barrels and open sights Have like 6" of open barrel at the end, which just lengthens the sight distance.
357 mag carbines do crazy things for a hand gun cartridge and 44 mag is insane in a carbine
9 and 10 mm are optimized at about 9 to 10 inches with little gain after that. 357 and 44 mag keep gaining to about 16 inches similarly.
Super long barrels only help high velocity rifle loads...short barrels defeat them. A hot 10mm out of a 10" barrel has more energy than a 300 BO out of an 8" - you lose half or more of potential energy going that direction.
Anyone who actually went to science class in school knows that the longer the gas from the expended cartridge has to burn, the more force it will generate. "Physics don't lie..."
(Yes, I went to English class, too).
Hey, bud, I have a 1911 by Alpha Foxtrot (custom maker from Duluth, GA) in 10mm and it's an amazing machine, a 10 carbine would be terrific.
I have a well massaged (by yours truly) Glock 21 pistol *and* a second G21, also reworked, attached to a Mech Tech carbine upper (no registration, it's just an upper! 😊) in M4 configuration in .45ACP and it kicks butt. Think of a modernized Tommy gun w/27rd. sticks. Anyway, it absolutely gives more burn time and faster speeds than the 4 3/4" barrel. Unless you have so much barrel fouling that it's impeding the bullet, there's no way it will give a slower speed. 😊
The reason a lot of people never get the speeds listed on the box of hunting/rifle ammo is because a lot of companies use a 26" barrel for their testing and rating data. Them people use an 18/20" barrel and say the ammo is crap cause it never hits the listed speeds but, it's not the ammo, it's the shooter's choice of firearm.
I still like full power loads for the 40 Magnum a.k.a. 10mm
Wow impressive 👏
I’m with you mate longer faster
I like the 10" barrel for the TNW , mine jams too, maybe ders a boer in der. Need to clean up the ramp. When you take it apart it looks like they put it together with home depot hardware. I'll bet the 10" shoots faster than the 16"?
That answers that.
Edit: Those Heritage Revolvers in .22 LR with the ridiculously long barrels will drag on the bullet because the powder is expended.
The speed of the bullet coming from the barrel is all dependent on the powder charge that was used when it was loaded. The type of powder and the quantity of powder. Because the right right powder and it will still be burning at 16 in barrel length
.357 mag always seems to gain the most out of a long barrel, well, carbine length. Pistol cartridges generally not as much. .41 mag does ok too. .44 mag not quite as much. Never seen data on .38 special, would think that would be good as well.
The only time a longer barrel might slow it down is low powder capacity. 380 auto might go slower out of 16" than 5" barrel.
Longer barrel length generally means higher velocity in everything except perhaps a .22lr. That said, the marginal cost of quadrupling the barrel length doesn't yield a proportional increase in velocity. If you take a .308, for example, and cut it down to 5", you're going to see a dramatic loss in velocity, and a much greater proportional difference. This is because pistol powders are generally faster burning than rifle powders.
You want the optimum length for the ammo, but 16” is the best to avoid the ATF. I would just default to the right ammo for the 16” barrel and use shorter barrel ammo in pistols which don’t need to be registered. 😊
the difference is even greater with underwood ammo, they put the energy @ or near 30-30 with the TNW rifle
I boycott underwood. They blocked me on Instagram
Man those cicadas are somethings else!
So loud
Test with and without shush device, just for fun, will it give some differences at all?
Thank you.
Thanks for watching!
Will removing the barrel and remount it change the POI? And if, how much? And if sighted in at 50 where will the POI be at 100 if you do not compensate for drop, and if you set it up for 100 what will you get at 20 40 60 80, will it hit inside the vitals? On all ranges or be outside if to close, or midway? On a deer how big is the vital zone? If you are within half of that at the bench will it suffice in a hunting scenario, where the exact distance is probably not known?
Guessing you'll be taking the deer at extreme close range. Pretty cool little carbine.
That's a bit more scientific than my ear test. I remember taking my first two 9mm guns, an XDS 3.3" and my HiPoint carbine, to the range.
You could easily hear the impact difference between the two on a steel target.
An extra 200fps does add a fair amount of energy. But how the bullet responds to the extra velocity is also important. Will it expand properly?
Should have seen if or how much the susher changes velocity.
Me too
My vote is that the laws of nature will continue to be inviolate, i.e. a higher velocity will result from the longer barrel.
This is why we like your videos WTW, you put it to the test.
Now watch, someone will complain you did it wrong because you had a can in the carbine, thus affecting pressure / muzzle velocity. LOL
Appreciate you watching
@@WHOTEEWHO Sure thing. 🙂
I appreciate you reading and responding to comments.
I have joined the 10 mm revolution. I will be trying the BCA 16" barrel 10 mm rig to record muzzle velocities I suspect without a suppressor you could get 1400-1450 fps. Why don't you try it without the can too? It is very possible you could get over 2000 fps using the 135 grain or lower weight rounds. Almost as much energy as a 556!
Have you contacted manufacturer aboutfixing mag issue and or tried a different mag ? Curious how its handled ?
Not yet
I have been hoping someone would come out with a lever gun in 10 mm 14 inch bbl.😊😊
Use Underwood ammo and get the most 10mm out of your 10mm.
I boycott underwood. They blocked me on Instagram
Cooper's original specification was 200 grains at 1,000fps (very close to the .40 S&W we eventually got). Norma's load was 170 grain JHP at 1,300 or a 200 grain at 1200, they insisted on pushing the capabilities like that as a marketing gimmick. I consider it a big factor in dooming the round to obscurity because it lead to excessive wear on pistols, overbuilt pistols to compensate, and excessive recoil.
Nice!
If you really want some big speed gains out of the 10 then try Underwood 135 or 155 grain ammo. The test i saw was over 2000fps with the 135 and over 1900 with the 155! I think the test gun was a mech tech carbine with a 16 inch barrel.
I boycott underwood. They blocked me on Instagram
Have they gotten their Powders correct yet? Burning faster or slower I think would mean more.
Send me that TNW ASR 10mm with one of the mags that came with it and I will repair it. I am a gunsmith in WI. I will pull the magazine catch/release, file off the upper side of the catch block, recoat it for rust prevention, reassemble and test, then ship it back for free.
👍😊 when’s the accuracy test.
If you missed it you might be surprised. I'd hunt with this rifle and the 200g Rem ammo.