Episode 8: Cam Timing - Royal Enfield 650 Twins
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- Proper timing of the S&S Cycles camshaft to a Royal Enfield Twin. When you are building a high performance engine details matter and cam timing greatly effects the way an engine performs. Make sure you're getting it right for the riding that you're doing and to optimize your performance and the money spent.
Time Stamps:
0:00 Opening
0:11 Intro and why timing matters
2:24 How to set up an engine to degree a cam
4:18 Dial Gauge set up
4:49 Taking your measurements
6:00 Effects of a poorly timed cam
6:27 The role of tolerances during installation and what proper installation looks like.
10:30 Wrap up
Please like, subscribe, share and leave a comment!
Specs:
Stock cam lift (measured)
IN = .258” EX = .262"
Stock valve lift IN = .305” EX = .310”
S&S cam lift (measured)
IN = .296” EX = .299"
S&S valve lift
IN = .350” EX= .354”
S&S Stated "Peak" Cam Lift .299" - "Peak" Valve Lift .354"
RA Ratio = 1.184
S&S increase in lift
IN = .045” EX= .044”
Links:
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I really enjoyed this video on valve timing. Must be 40 years since I used a degree wheel. I have noticed the right side cylinder runs hotter than the left on the 650. Next service I will get the guys to check the valve timing to make sure it is not advanced. Thanks for the insight, I have been wondering what it might be.
Once again, thanks. You two are one of the best resources on CZcams for this kind of stuff.
Thanks very much
Can't agree more.
Excellent presentation. You convinced me once again that I will need an engine builder. Thanks.
That is music to our ears. Wonderful to have our craft acknowledged and appreciated. Thank you
Excellent! Important for those guys or gals, who think installing a cam is a simple bolt on mod, when I put a cam in my street twin, I made my own crank pin and cam lock with no slop. It real easy to make a small adjustment error, lesson is to check and recheck.
loved this episode, please make more such videos!
Superb explanation. So very detailed. Thanks to you guys
Really interesting! You are both great teachers. Thank you
Thank you very much. Happy new year to you and all of you reading this!
Nice video guys, happy new year looking forward to more of your videos 👍👍👍.
Excellent video, really informative. Thanks guys. 😊
Another fab Revelry Enfield performance related vid. Very helpful and easy to understand as all your vids are. Thanks for taking the time and trouble to make these to show to us. Already looking forward to the next one. Happy New Year to you both from Cardiff, South Wales.
Very very interesting. Thanks guys. 😎
Very informative, guys, thanks very much...👍
As soon as I saw you had a new upload I had to watch straight away. Great work and always informative. 👍
Thanks for watching Mick we appreciate it.
Greetings from Canada. Best RE channel ever!
Thanks mate!
absolutely love your stuff, one day when all this covid stuff is over I will get to Sydney for a visit , I lived there for 10 years , 1970 til 1980 , cheers Alister in Ballarat.
Understanding !
Knowing the difference..
I'll leave it in your Capable Hands
Again, another great detailed episode...
So glad you guys are doing these educational lessons.....
Just makes me want to come up North & purchase one of your units ! (After you've modified it !)
Please keep it going.....
Love your content, thanks for sharing
Peace be with you
Nice job ditactic vidéo , Nice 2021 year with more Video . Best wish From FRANCE !!
Another amazing video! I'd love you were located in Barcelona, Spain. thanks!!!
Excellent presentation as always! You guys are very professional & you ought to open up a workshop in Melbourne 🥇💯💪💪 Keep up the passion & enthusiasm, you will be rewarded 🥇
You guys are doing great job, keep the good times rolling.
Hope we had technical people like you in India, most of the technicians and their superiors are dud here in terms of precision one needs to build quality engine or to run one properly with high performance, Third party and OEM service stations, boosting services are bad both in technical work and customer service here.
Yes, this is why some bikes are better than others straight off the assembly line and why 'blue printing' an engine, to use an old school term can reap big rewards, especially where every little bit counts.
I have ‘binge’ watched all your videos and I don’t even own a motorcycle. I know who I’m buying an RE from, when I can afford one. Love your videos.
Hope to come up from Melbourne one day to visit, maybe to rent one first. Keep up the great work. Cheers
Thank you Richard hope to see you in Sydney
Excellent source! I wish you guys would set up a workshop or a camp in India for a week. Me and many riders like me would love to have you guys work your magic with big bore kits and cams on our bikes.
That would be cool! The logistics would be difficult.
Wish you guys did some videos like this on the Himalayan. I own a 21 Himmy and recently fitted a fuelx lite and it has helped the bike run a tad smoother, but I get a rattle knocking sound under load around 4000rpm or so, and have wondered if my cam timing is off. This video is very informative and will be checking mine the next time I check my valves. Thank you!!
Conteúdo muito bom
Obrigado
thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. santina and wil, you guys rock ! i can just understand your aussie yank accent :-)
keep up the great work, the community doesnt understand how lucky they are .
cheers wolverine
ps- ive been watching US flat tracking. i "believe" you yanks will kick our @rse
Thanks very much
Hi,
Just want to say thanks for your informative videos. Before I found you guys I was leaning towards the 1980ies Moto-Guzzi, but now… the 650GT is probably the bike for me!
How about a video about RE tools you need for the engine work, and where can I get a complete servicemanual?
Thanks again for helping me making my mind up.
Best regards
Ken
Sweden
👍👍👍👌👌
This just made me really nervous. I was thinking of getting the S&S cam for my bike but now I dont know if I will be able to find someone locally who will get the job done right. I'm a machinist myself, and I am capable of getting measurements done the right way, but I dont have the experience with engines to know that I'm doing the right thing. I'd have to work very closely with a mechanic who would be willing to let me look over his shoulder and check every measurement with my own instruments. Can't imagine many mechanics would be that patient. Most would feel insulted I think.
If you look and ask around you'll find them. But if you have to look over their shoulder you've not found the right person.
I’m a bit confused. Is it possible to time the cam by just finding TDC with the piston stop tool and then lining up the L or R groove with the line on the engine as you would when adjusting valve clearance, or is the valve lift gauge essential ?
Hi Will and Santina, you guys might be the perfect people to ask everything about this 650 engine on the internet. I assume that you know about the valve tappet controversy. People say rotate the crankshaft counter-clockwise and manual has directed otherwise. So what's the deal with that bolt and in which direction shall I rotate it? I'll blindly follow your advice😄... Thanks and Cheers 👍🏻
You always and only rotate the engine forward in direction of running rotation. Viewed from the left hand (crankshaft rotor bolt) side thaat's counter clockwise. Viewed from the right hand (camshaft locking tool) side it's clockwise.
Nice work u guys, can you provide manual works in pdf to share? Thank you
Is it necessary to properly set valve clearance before doing the cam timing the way you have shown with cam timing dial
Hi i love your videos really great and detailed
Do you think its worth getting standard factory timing settings checked on a standard 650 set up for accuracy ?
plus am i better checking valve clearances using the spark plug hole tdc tool rather than the lines on the end of the cam
Cheers
Mark
There's probably no value in checking a stock vehicle's factory cam timing settings.
The marks on the cam indicate where the valves for that cylinder are unloaded regardless of the cam's timing relationship with the crankshaft. This means that for the purpose of valve lash adjustment, the marks on the cam are more valuable than piston TDC.
After installing the s and s camshaft im experiencing constant back fire from my left cylinder at constant throttle and im not able to figure out the probable cause.......is improper cam timing a factor?.....and if its the case why does it only happen on my left cylinder and that too only at constant throttle?
Hi Guys, Have a look at Handcocks RE from Solihull England UK. They make a cam for their 846 big bore kit. I think you will be interested in their web site video on this.cheers.
Wow sub Thai!
Can you change firing to 180
Request to clarify my below mentioned doubt regarding usage of valve spring spacers provided with the purchase of S&S performance camshaft.
When my mechanic opened the engine top cover I noticed the stock valve springs are already compressed enough & it is coiled up, now if we add the additional valve spring spacers doesn't it further compress the valve springs and increase the load on the rocker arm?? Is it necessary to use these valve spring spacers??
Yes, it is necessary to install the spring shims.
@@RevelryCycles ok thank you very much.
I would love if you can do a video about running your new bike in. Is it better to run your bike in first then get new parts for it afterwards? Also do you have to ‘ run in’ any of the new mechanical parts that gets installed after the bike is ‘run in.? Hope you had a great break.
Cheers
That's actually on our list of possible videos. Upgrade it from new or run it in first is really a personal preference. We do a lot of both. There is not really any "technical" benefit of running the bike in before upgrades. Yes, you do need to run in the upgrades so fitting them to a bike with kms on the clock means you need to do, at least a bit of, another run in as well.
Love your video's just one question did you modify that degree wheel? I have that one but the hole is small and doesn't have the other two bolts. I'm about to put in a S&Sncam and High compressoin pistons as well but keeping the stock bore size. Ilike to do this right but notise your degree wheel looks modified to fit the 650 please advice on how to get the wheel to fit the 650. John K.
Hey John, we have modified it. I've shared photos on our channels Community tab for you.
Have you set up a dial indicator on a engine thats still in the bike . I have put in the cam but trying to figure out a way to mount it in the frame
@@RevelryCycles
Sure, with the engine in the frame, you use longer horizontal offsets to get the gauge outside the frame rails.
I'll have to get some of those but I couldn't tell where you attached the to the engine?` magnetic base or use one of the rocker bolts to secure it it there thanks 👍@@RevelryCycles
Hi ,can you tell me what adaptor you are using on the degree wheel? fits the interceptor perfectly..great video, about to embark on some changes myself, keep up the good work..
Thanks. It fits perfectly because we made it in house. There aren't any cam timing kits we're aware of that will "just work" on the 650.
@@RevelryCycles many thanks i'll make one.
Hey guys how is your cam timing wheel held on do you have some photos of this connection
Sure but we can’t post photos in the comments. Send us an email info@revelerycycles.com.au and we’ll send them over
So guys question: what is your recommendation for cam timing for a street bike with low restriction K&N air filter, Tec 2:1 exhaust, 856 big bore, cam kit, clutch kit, and power commander. Probably will keep the stock throttle bodies-- you mentioned that you did one bike that way, also what kind of HP would you guesstimate. Appreciate any and all help (should I get the slick throttle bodies and /or the PowerTronic???). As I said looking for tractable B.A. street bike, not just drag bike, maybe even some touring. Just wish I could beam me and my Glitter and Dust (I call her KANTI, which I think is Hindi for shiny/flashy) over to Sidney so you guys could do your voodoo. Gratcie
The cam timing REALLY should be spot on the lobe centre. 0 degrees. The engine you're describiiing is exactly what the S&S cam is designed for. The only advantage the PowerTronic has is the ability to raise the rev limit. The 40mm throttle bodies will make a slight improvement with the stock head but you NEED teh CNC head to take advantage of them. With the head and throttle body package you can see (nearly) the same % increase again over the 865 conversion.
@@RevelryCycles Thank you for the reply. I thought that PowerTronic could advance/change ignition timing? So... guesstimate please as to ponies of my described motor vs CNC head and maxed out throttle bodies? Thanks.
Since no one outside of Australian do this correctly, can you put together a tool kit with correct instructions and possibly a Teams or Zooms call at 15 minute increments paid on PayPal?
My dealer did this install and it doesn’t feel sluggish or hard to start, but the Dyno said 39HP. I have you headers, S&S cam, DNA air filter, S&S race only cans and power commander 5. The only way this gets done correctly is if I take my time, have the tools, and do it myself. I’d gladly pay for the all of tools and phone time. Hell, my dealer can’t even get that cam alignment tool, or that valve tapper torque wrench. What do you think. Otherwise I’m going for the Thruxton R/RS or Speed Twin.
Did you guys make that 965 kit!?!
We built a 965 for our race bike. We do offer a 950cc stroker kit for sale shop.revelryracing.com.au/product/revelry-racing-re-twin-7mm-stroker-crank/
@@RevelryCycles does it also require upgraded brakes, clutch and a powertronic?
@@gcrichlow17 Clutch and tuner yes.
Why not use a scatter cam and get best of both worlds......🥸
Are you guys mechanical engineers?
Normal repair guys dont know as much as you guys.
They're engine builders