Episode 4: EFI Tuners Part 1 - Royal Enfield 650 Twin
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- čas přidán 6. 07. 2024
- Tuners for the Royal Enfield Interceptor and Continental GT
Episode 4 of our Royal Enfield Twin 650 Performance series Tuners - Part One. What does a tuner do and why/when do you need one?
Time Stamps:
0:00 Opening
0:11 Intro and Updates
1:17 EMS Components & Function
5:04 Purpose of a Tuner
6:30 When do I need a tuner?
8:24 Tuner Options
10:44 Results to expect
11:20 Wrap up and next week's topic
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Just found you two this afternoon and am binge watching. Evertything so far has been amazing but this one on the tuner is brilliant. Hands down the best description every on reasons for a tuner and functions of a tuner. I also want to add how easy it is to watch you two. No distracting music, gimmicks or graphic inserts. Just straight up quality education. Now back to the rest of the videos.
A wonderful compliment. Thanks Bruce!
Wow, this THE go-to channel for understanding my RE GT650!!! I've done a lot of the bolt-on mods but you explain some much more! I'm from Idaho, USA
Way to go Idaho! Glad you’re here Stu
I'm 54 and i feel like I've gone back to school!!!!!.......Excellent video's, keep them coming!!!!.....
By the way ,i'm english but now living in france .
See you later 👍👍👍👍👍
Thank you Andrew!
Hi Revelry Cycles. I'm the happy owner of a Continental GT650 black magic. I wish you were nearby, mechanics here are not so specialized on mods like this for this brand. I've "forced" my fellow mechanic to watch your channel to learn from you. Looking forward for the new video. Ciao from Rome, Italy. . . and sorry for my english.
Benvenuto!
Hi there, from France ! I like yours videos so far. I own an interceptor, and also have been working on my track car for more than a decade. I have been toying with its ECU. Well, i reverse engineered it to make it programmable. They were simple and not encrypted at the time... anyway i learned a lot tuning it myself, so I have some critics to offer. I hope you will not take them bad.
There have been some shortcuts here and there (like the AFR: 14.7 "part" to 1 is actually "gram" . It is weight, not volume. important as soon as you get into partial load, super/turbo charging or ram effect), and some mistakes here. Most are common mistakes about fueling.
The only engines that can get 14.7 - 15 AFR all the time are direct injection engines with wideband lambda sensors. Our ECU uses indirect injectors and narrowband sensors, like most engines, and they only go nearly stoich at idle, low load, low to mid rpm. As soon as you accelerate it goes rich, and at high load / high revs, the stock ECU is likely to go richer than you'd want, like 12 to 11 AFR if not lower, for safety purpose. The reason is lambda sensors are too slow to work all the time, they can only make a usable measurement at constant load and low to mid rpm. If the mixture gets lean when the ECU cannot see it, the engine is going to melt a piston, so manufacturers make it run rich. Richer does not mean more power, most tuners will actually lean out the engine. This gives back a little power, but there is now no safety against an aging fuel pump, injector, or from the injector command, so an external wideband lambda controller with an alarm is strongly encouraged. There is also no "economy" mapping. You can get the engine less responsive to drive in the wet by pulling timing a bit, but leaning out is not going to make the bike consume significantly less. The only significant lesser fuel consumption comes from a smooth driving.
Now, leaning out high load is not really making more power, it is getting power back. The only way to get more power is actually from changing the ignition timing. That means there is no point to use a power commander, since it cannot do that.
The perfect ignition timing exist, but regular fuels cannot use it, as they will self ignite before and that destroys engines, so the stock programming uses a conservative timing. this way, even with the crappiest fuel, it will not detonate. Higher octane fuel resist self ignite better, so a tuner can set the engine with a timing closer to perfect if the user puts high octane fuel. If the timing is too high for the octane rating though ... holes in pistons, destroyed engines, you know the drill. The best / cheapest way to go ? Expensive race fuel... or cheap e85. I found out It does not self ignite and the perfect timing can be used. I read it has a 104 octane rating, which would explain that. It also cools engines a bit (no idea why. Engine runs cooler, EGT is 50C less on my track car). The only downside is the fuel consumption goes up and it requires bigger injectors, as stoeich is now 9:1 . The ECU does not care since it reads lambda, and lambda = 1 when stoeich, wether stoeich requires 14.7:1 or 9:1 does not matter. If your race sanctionning body allows it, use that fuel and raise the compression as much as you can.
As far as the power plug goes, it does not work like that. It will trick the ECU into believing the air is colder, true, but the AFR closed loop will quickly adjust trims and phase it out completely, just like it will adapt mufflers and air filters. Its only effect is on a different fueling table that unfortunately is not accessible even from powertronics (i already mailed them about). This table is only accessed by the ECU when there is a sudden change in throttle, and it applies a multiplier based on air temp and throttle position to the currently used fuel cell from the table. This table is the same as the carburetor accelerator pump. This is why the booster plug solves the problem of hesitating engines with a high flow air filter, as paper filtration element is poor in transients ( but it really is better at filtration, and it flows more when dirty than any other system)
Sorry for the wall of text. Keep up the good work !
Cant wait to see those numbers. Tuning in from the Maldives 🇲🇻
You guys have quickly become one of my favourite channels as I learn something new every time. Thank you for your hard work and giving me ideas for my gt650
Brilliant. Basic explanation of how things work. So many channels assume the viewer is a mechanic and knows how everything in a motor works. And then you take it up a level that is so easy to understand. Great stuff.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Hi Revelry Cycles Crew, I'm looking forward to this series. I've never had a motorcycle that had an E.C.U. so, I have much to learn. Good Luck and thank you for posting. From near San Felipe de Austin, Texas
Hi , I’m liking your show and it’s very informative on accessorizing a Royal Enfield twin !!!
I’m watching this from the Palm Springs area in California!
For being fairly new to the saturated moto-mechanic CZcams scene you guys are killing it! Awesome info that's easy to follow. Looking forward to learning from you guys as I slowly upgrade my INT650. Keep up the great work
So much info. Brilliant.
Awesome channel thanks for all your advice and smiles!
The power wheele of the intro is orgasmic
I have a booster plug in my little TU250X it did what I wanted that was to smooth out throttle response down low for urban riding. Maybe a small amount of extra torque down low.
Great work guys.. Looking forward
From Sydney
I'm Brazilian, I'm in Brazil. I have a Suzuki GSX650F, I am a motorcycle mechanic and I have greatly admired the simple mechanics of this model. I found the 650cc little for me, but this change to 865 leaves the picture really interesting. It remains to be seen if I would find such a kit here in Brazil.
Good job FROM FRANCE !!!
Well done and so much helpful info. Watching from Malawi.
Namaste 🙏 Much to learn, always looking forward to your next episode.
From India 🙏
Welcome Rajdic!
These videos are amazing. Regular modding videos only go into "do this, it feels like that". After these videos, even if a only remember a third of the info, I feel more like a mechanic!
Thank you from a Canadian in Mexico.
Thank's for your videos. I'm waiting the next one from Catalonia.
There ya go! 1k subscribers. Looking forward for more videos :-)
Awesome! Thanks for celebrating with us Doc
Another excellent topic, thanks again (Lancashire UK).
Getting my infield sometime this week all black I love it
Great video! Just subbed in as I’m picking up my Interceptor in November 😊
I'm loving the weakly uploads. 👍
Hello I am from France and really happy to have discovered you. Thank you for your videos. Take care of yourself. Tib from Paris.
Great work guys! Loving your work. My Orange Crush has DNA filter, Indian end cans and...POWER BOOSTER (yay!) That's as far as I will go except for being tempted by your headers... (sorry Wifey). The best fitment by the seat of the pants dyno was the Power Booster, it made low speed riding so very much easier and more pleasant, a lot more snap in the acceleration... Anyway, just wanted to put in a vote for the PB because it is a SHITload cheaper than any of the ECU tuners. Cheers from Abu Dhabi!
Absolutely love this channel.. from India 💥
From india
Like the way things are being explained.
Have booked interceptor and trying to learn from your videos how and what I need from my interceptor.
Portugal 🇵🇹
Excelente vídeo, love the simplicity but so acure explanation.
As I say, “if you know and understand how it works, it’s easier to repair it “
Your clients are lucky to have you
Stoichiometric - my word of the week!
Thanks guys for the fantastic videos!!! From Canberra ACT
Good to see you here Warwick
Fascinating stuff I’m lovin this channel thank you guys. Oh yeah I’m in Ireland 🇮🇪
Just found you guys. Love your videos! Good mix of technical info delivered in an easy, friendly way. I’ve got a 2019 Triumph Speedtwin and a 2003 RE Bullet 500 trials, but am seriously considering a RE 650 Continental GT, hence trawling the net for research. Keep up the brilliant work (960 cc - wow!!).
Hi Guys, living in Sydney and loving the videos. Really exiting that you push the boundaries of what you do, yet super cool that owners can make these improvements step by step over time.
Drop in sometime Tony 👍🏻
Thanks guys, I’m learning so much. Really informative and interesting. From England (UK)
Thanks for watching!
First I bought the 650 conti gt and now I learn so much from you , I only change air filter and complete line of pipes but I see all possibilities 😁👍
Hi I'm new to the channel. In Enid Oklahoma. I'm glad to see so much info on the 650 performance. I have really been looking at purchasing a Continental and I am hoping I can find a shop in Oklahoma close to me who is as good as you guys.
Thank you soooo much for your videos, they're extremely informative , interesting and a pleasure to watch, I hesitated a long time before I got myself a "modern" Bike (all my other bikes are carbs and breakers, cos Il understand them) you make all the electronic hokery pokery understandable
THANKS Chris South of France
Love you guys, from India. Waiting for the dyno run.
:-) Welcome!
And now a message from Paris, France ! I do really enjoy your work. Learning a lot about this machine. Thanks. :)
Thanks for watching!
Very informative on tuning 650 Enfield,s you have me I have now subscribed
Welcome Karl!
i like the powertronic. istalled it on my himalayan and its great.
Excellent job Revelry Cycles. Now I know why do I have to change my stock exhaust, switch to performance filter, fix a new tuner on my GT 650. I'm from India. Thanks a lot for the detailed explanations.!!!
Hello Santina and Will,
Your videos are very detailed and technical. But you make it easy for the non - techies to understand these so very well. You have taken so much care to get the visuals so detailed with opened up parts, cut out parts etc. You have easily become one of my favourite channels. As a Motorcycle riders it is very very inetresting for me. Keep up the great work!
Thanks from Germany
Very nice....Im from Brasil...
Lovely place...congratulations.
Hi only just found your Great channel, I've just bought an interceptor and your info is invaluable keep up the great work and thanks for sharing your knowledge. From UK.😊
Hi guys loving the videos I have an interceptor 650 with full system change and filter and is much better,
Regards Chris from Yorkshire Uk
Very informative
G'day from Warrington, England.
Hello from Denmark!
Yo he montado el booster plug y por ahora va bien, se nota la diferencia
Hola, llevas la moto stock o tienes más modificaciones adicionales al booster Plug? Qué cambios notaste? Saludos
Gracias por la información tan completa y precisa. Tambien por traducir al español
hello, very instructive video.
before my royal enfield I had an HD with DYNOJET power vision. it is unfortunate not to find this system on the R.E.
Alkmaar, The Netherlands here and the owner of an Orange Crush Interceptor with open TEC pipes and open airfliter. Before this bike i had a 2010 Harley SuperGlide and the only thing i miss from that bike is the torque it has. I am thinking about the big bore kit for my RE but wait untill i know more about the reliability of the crankshaft and bearings with all these upgrades. Thanks for again great info in this vid :)
Could you please do an 'Exhaust note' video on the Interceptor 865?? I'm dying to hear it.
Love from India ❤️
Keep it up guys! This is the most informative channel on the RE 650s I've found yet and I can't wait to continue perfecting my Interceptor. Do you guys ship worldwide? Hello from England
Hello to the man with the best CZcams name ever! LOL
Yes we ship to England. Our website won't calculate international shipping so just email us at info@revelrycycles.com.au with what you're after and your postcode and we'll send you a quote.
@@RevelryCycles Amazing, I'll definitely be in contact before too long. Thanks.
I'm lot closer then Ireland. I'm in a little town called Old Bar NSW north of Forster. Not a lot here appart from a motorcycle flat track and a few shops.
Enjoying your videos! In Oct of 2019 traded in my 2011 Victory and went for a Triumph Speedtwin(big change) my third Triumph over the many years. Parts were getting harder to get for the Victory and in all honesty I really enjoy the new bike being over 300-lbs lighter, fun bike. My wife no longer rides with me, no need for a huge bike. Also really considered the RE 650. The S&S big bore kit was one of the things I new I would be doing. So went ahead & got the Triumph really enjoy it. Do you guys do mods on the Triumphs also? Get this thing paid for maybe an RE will be added to the garage. In the SW desert, Az. USA. Been cooking my brain here every summer since I moved here in 1983, ha,ha. Great videos! Friend of mine ended up down under, he likes it. Wish I would have gave it a shot years ago.
Oof, I just learned that common ECU mods don't comply with 2021 Euro-5 emission regulations... Should've bought my Interceptor last year. Guess I'll stick to filter and exhaust upgrades or maybe get a tuner with a switch and hope the inspector doesn't find it...
Very informative. I m from canada but have bike in india. U guys as RE authorised dealer doing all mods authorised by Re. But its very sad in india RE dnt allow even here mechanics are not at 1% of ur knowledge. Good job pls keep it up.
We wouldn't technically call these "authorised mods" they are aftermarket products not genuine RE even though S&S worked with RE on the development.
Strange that the power commander doesn't allow you to change timing on the 650. It does on the 500 & 535 singles
Hi, im in Central Queensland
While I can certainly appreciate all the engine related pieces you've done, have you done or have you any plans to do something to the stock suspension?
You guys make me want to spend some money.
Wow! For the first time I got to know so much in such a short time!
Sir/Ma'am my question is if you may, if I use a freeflow+decat on CL350 & don't use a tuner:-
1)Could it adversely affect the engine life?
2)Could these two mods decrease the fuel efficiency or decrease the low end torque when compared to the stock bike?
I'll be installing these mods only for sound & I'm happy with the stock performance.
Which one to choose remapping or tuning chips when you are adding supercharger, from my perspective i will choose remapping
Hi from India 🇮🇳. What to add and what to leave for an 865 build which could give me loads of torque.
Also, explain how can we increase torque on this engine.
Love your episodes ❣️☺️
Please make a video on 865 bore kit with.turbo charge
From india tamilnadu..
A question to the booster plug. Is it not similar to take the airbox temperature feeler and mount outside?
Touring the USA with loaded saddlebags, tent, computer bag, sleeping bag, everything I own on my INT650. I got tired of always having to stop, clean, lube, and adjust the chain per the service manual intervals. And I got tired of no matter what lube I used and how carefully I cleaned the excess, there was always a sling off build up to clean and a dirty saddlebag. I purchased the Bandidos Pitstop Belt drive conversion and I'm very happy with that and was surprised that it was quieter and smoother. However, they used a sprocket or pulley ratio that leans on the power side and I now get less range out of my tank. Is there anything you suggest to bring down my fuel consumption to get more miles between fillups? Aside from the belt drive my bike is stock, filter, plugs, I run Silkolene oil. Love you two!
Not really. While there are all kinds of little things you can do to improve fuel consumption, if your gearing is lower there's probably not much you can do, other than slow down and or/ loose a bunch of weight off your touring kit, to make up "a lot" of difference in fuel consumption. If you're going to stay with the lower gearing you should fit a taller profile rear tyre when it's time for a tyre. A MUCH taller tyre will bring back a little bit of your gearing.
Hi, please take time to show us all the details there is. These topics cant be to long. Also would be interested on tires. How wide tires can be fitted on stock rims. I have idea to place rear 130 tire on the front and buy new 150 tire for the rear. Is that possible ? RE owner from Lithuania.
Thanks for all the crips clean details in highly important information.
I know you mentioned this, but not 100% sure - is it safe to run my bike (INT650) if I installed the DNA filter and a 2in1 exhaust? Will the ECU adapt to this and supply a sufficient flow of fuel so that it doesn't run lean? Thank you!
You mention the Booster Plug...What's your take on refitting the stock one outside the filter box to get a cooler reading, much the same as the Booster would do ? After all, it doesn't need to be inside the box, which is actually giving a hotter reading than the air temp going into the filter. Obviously blank off the fitting hole in the box as well. Cheers from NZ.
We always say if you're not testing you're guessing. Since we haven't tested that, I'm guessing you'd need a lot more temperature difference than that to get any measurable increase in AFR.
In my case it helped the stumble off idle from a standing start. Otherwise it had no effect I could discern. With a 16t front sprocket it was a help as the tendency to stall unexpectedly was more pronounced with the taller gearing. If you do not experience that on your RE I'll say though when your riding two up and the bike does that sudden stall and your helmets collide.... its worth it.....
What's the factory air screw setting in throttle body ..how many turns from fully closed
Which one would you recommend for a 650 with Header's /exhaust and free flowing air filter/ S&S cam and High Compression 78mm pistons? And do you have any maps for it?🤔😊
I am in chennai, india, a regular follower of your you tube Chanel and I thoroughly enjoy your explanations. my stock interceptor 650 left cylinder is misfiring and getting hotter than the right cylinder. what do you think is wrong. the agency is unable to correct it and have no answers for me.
I believe Powetronic will add sensor hookups to custom harnesses to tweak more factors? Also remove rev limiting?
If true, how far does this go?
It's true they have made some custom harnesses for us. We'll get into the details in the next video.
Will you ship header pipes to the USA?
If i use aftrrmarket air filter cap and high flow air filtrr with slip on exhaust does i need to tune or stock ecu adjust
czcams.com/video/v0SK9ebe6_Q/video.html
GB ,OK
Is a booster right for me?
The only performance mods I want is Diablo exhaust and DNA air filter. I don’t race. I just want to prevent the headers from bluing (which I keep seeing on other GTs with this exhaust & filter system) and help keep my engine safe from running too lean. I’m very new to all of this, but it seems like a booster could be a great solution for me instead of a Powertronics tuner... ?
Ps. I subbed :)
We don't have any experience with the booster. The concept of making the stock ECU think the engine is colder than it is and thereby making the fuel mixture slightly richer theoretically should work. Is it exactly the mixture you need? Only one way to find out.
Hi Will+Santina, I have a question about installing the FuelXPro on my RE Interceptor 2021 model. On the new wiring harness it is labelled Lambda1 + Lambda2--does it matter which cylinder is plugged into which numbered wiring as in I thought Left side cylinder as you sit on the bike is number 1 cylinder so number 1Labelled cable should connect to Left cylinder 02 sensor. Greg
It does matter. Left side is number 1.
Thanking you for the response. Greg@@RevelryCycles
Is there a point in the 650cc (not the overbore) tune where the clutch needs the replacement basket? I'm curious as to when the stock clutch isn't up to the HP increase.
We’re going to do a “clutches” video with much more detail. Without getting too far into it, the short answer is; we haven’t seen a 650cc bike overrun the torque capacity of the stock clutch... so far.
@@RevelryCycles Good to know, as I have the CAM when my bike is being outfitted after a freeway incident. Your mention of the 11:1 piston set under the "why not" had me thinking.... Well the not being... not if its going to overwhelm the stock clutch at some point.... Trying to stick with the low hanging fruit of performance and not spend into the crazy zone for little gain....
965 🙀 now that's a first.
Shhh...
@@RevelryCycles
🤐
Any part numbers for s&s ecm
Hi Revelry Cycles! Are there any options available for a Royal Enfield Classic 500 2015 model? (Sydney)
Sure thing. The PowerTronic and Power Commander are both available for the 500/535.
Can you guys please confirm the booster plug does not work with the Euro 5 model?
You should ask the booster plug folks.
Hello, if I see correctly you installed a 4 piston caliper on the Interceptor. Which one ????
No, we have not done that.
Will stock ECU work ok with freeflow headers and exhaust?
Yep, sure will.
@@RevelryCycles thanks for your reply! Would a booster plug be beneficial in this case?
@@theradiantchild watch our tuner videos czcams.com/video/v0SK9ebe6_Q/video.htmlsi=g7rVZxXKEL6n1j91
@@RevelryCycles I'm not looking to race. I'd just like less weight and better throttle response.
Hi , i have a continental gt650 and i have an issue , whenever i go full throttle , near the redline i hear some metal tapping noise from the top cover side in the engine , can you help identify the problem?
Sounds like you're hitting the rev limiter
@@RevelryCycles oh , the rev limiter makes cracking noises from 7k rpm ?
@@RevelryCycles it's a hard pace knock sounds likr cracking noise as if someone is knocking the top cover, is it normal?
@@adarshbhatnagar7874 go to your local dealer if you have concerns. We can’t diagnose motorcycles over the internet.
@@adarshbhatnagar7874 did you find out what this sound is? Mine does the same thing with only 1000 miles on the odometer
955???? Oh really??? Florida, USA
Your shop site is not secure might want to look into that.Should have a padlock symbol on it yours has a exclamation mark.
Our sites, just like most, don't force ssl for casual browsing. We enfoece ssl any time the user enters any information, like log in or checkout. Feel free to purchase securely!