Toilet Wax vs Rubber: Which Works Better?
Vložit
- čas přidán 28. 05. 2024
- Toilet Wax vs Rubber: Which Works Better?
NO ONE wants sewer gases getting back up into their house...discover which type of seal - wax or rubber - holds up best under intense pressure, a crucial factor in ensuring leak-free, reliable toilet installations. This video is perfect for plumbers, DIY enthusiasts, and homeowners alike who seek a deeper understanding of the intricacies involved in selecting the right materials for toilet installations. Get ready to uncover the strengths and weaknesses of wax and rubber toilet rings, and find out which one triumphs as the superior choice in the world of plumbing!"
▶️ Recommended Playlist: • Real Plumber Tries "Pl...
▶️ Ge the BEST Leak Detection Equipment: www.leak-pro.com/
🔴 Blog Post www.rogerwakefield.com/blog/w...
✅LET’S STAY IN TOUCH: stan.store/RogerWakefield
🔔 Subscribe for more AWESOME plumbing videos: / @rogerwakefield
⭐️ Become a Member TODAY: / rogerwakefield
________________________________________________________________________________________________
⏰ Chapters:
Intro ▶️ 00:00
Wax ring ▶️ 01:28
Extra-thick wax ring ▶️ 04:17
Better than wax ring ▶️ 06:18
Korky rubber ring ▶️ 09:12
Final thoughts ▶️ 10:40
________________________________________________________________________________________________
✅ For business inquiries contact me at contact@rogerwakefield.com
________________________________________________________________________________________________
🔴 Links:
My fav equipment & tools - www.amazon.com/shop/rogerwake...
My Free Mini-Course- bit.ly/rogersfreeminicourse
My Networking Secrets That Grew My Plumbing Business FAST - bit.ly/rogersfreeguide
PlumbStudy- plumbstudy.thinkific.com/
My Recommended Plumbing Study Guide -amzn.to/2RgYEn5
*NOTE: This description contains affiliate links that allow you to find the items mentioned in this video and support the channel at NO COST TO YOU. While this channel may earn minimal sums when the viewer uses the links, the viewer is in NO WAY obligated to use these links. Thank you for your support!
________________________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks for watching! I'm Roger Wakefield, The Expert Plumber, and welcome to my channel. On this channel, it's ALL about plumbing. We play games, we experiment, and we have FUN here, talking and learning about all things plumbing!
____________________________________________________________________________
to be fair, if you're putting 25 PSI of air pressure on your toilet, you eat way too many beans.
Or all you can eat hot wings
But they’re the magical fruit…
@@RogerWakefield The more you eat, the more you toot.
1psi= 2.307 ft high back up
@@braindejong9606 so that means a 57 foot tall toilet. which misses the joke, entirely.
I like the test but you can see the acrylic is bending which won’t be a good seal so something stiffer would have been a better test for both in my opinion
I agree. I am no plumber by but I use these in all my toilets at the apartments I work at as I go. Somewhere around 100 toilets it’s the past 4 years I’ve had one instance where I couldn’t use one. Time saved is massive. Between cleanup and not scrapping the old ring off. It’s so much easier to do and they work. When you have a proper seal I believe they are better. Just make sure you gasket flange isn’t broken.
Which couldn't that be a better test, the flooring under toilets sometimes bends right? so wouldn't you want a worst case test
@@johndorian4078 yes, the floor may have bends but the seal doesn't touch the floor so it has no influence. The weak point of this test is the acrylic sheet used on the end. It is clearly not as stiff as a toilet bottom and is skewing the results. I've used both and after the first no wax seal you couldn't pay me to go back to wax. The toilet in my current house had a wax seal that was leaking so I replaced it and within months it was leaking again. Switched to a no wax seal and it hasn't leaked in 25 years now and that includes having removed the toilet once to redo the floor and and another time to gain access to the space behind the toilet for painting. Never had a drip or an odor of sewer gases leak through it.
Yea a toilet is not going to flex like the acrylic did.
@@johndorian4078 Plus a toilet is much heavier and puts an equal amount of pressure around the seal.
When I did apartment maintenance, I switched over to the better then wax. Worked well for me. I like that there is no wax to clean up. Other bonus, it can be reused incase you set the toilet down off center.
Exactly. If you accidentally set the toilet down wrong. You just move it with a rubber seal. With wax.....you have miserable cleanup on your hands if you have degraded the wax to the point that the entire thing needs to be replaced.
I do apartment maintenance and use the neoprene seals instead of wax. Our buildings are old and I have had to deal with several leaking wax rings. Once a wax ring looses it's seal and gets wet it doesn't tend to reseal, the neoprene rings will reseal. That is the big advantage for me.
I’ve seen the rubber rings work from having to pull toilets for other various reasons, but I’ve never used them myself.
@@drmodestoesq ~ Landlord and I installed a new lo-flow toilet upstairs and used the neoprene seal. That was probably 8 or so years ago and still no leak and it is nice not to be concerned about incorrect placement wrecking the wax ring.
When I moved into my house I swapped out 3 toilets the Wax rings were not my friend I tried the Better than Wax without zero issue. My dad swore by the wax ring until I showed him the better than wax for ease of use and clean install it’s my preference. That being said I’m just a homeowner I know both methods work.
I'm a licensed plumber in New Mexico and I've done service work for 6 years. now I'm in a maintenance position for an apartment complex. Since the first time I tried "Better Than Wax" five years ago, I decided that I was never going back to wax. I've installed hundreds of the foam/rubber ring seals and I've never gotten a call-back or experienced any type of issue related to a toilet I've set using that product. Two things I swear by: "Better Than Wax" and siliconized acrylic caulking in place traditional plumber's putty or for any instance requiring a sanitary seal. This type of caulking is the easiest to use and clean up because, prior to setting up and curing, it's water soluble - just takes a damp rag and washes right off hands and tools. It's also safe on drains because it just dissolves in water on clean up. Once it's set and cured (think basket strainer or disposal adapter installation in a kitchen sink basin) it holds it's seal very well and stays worlds cleaner than putty could ever be capable of.
Thanks for the tip on the caulking gonna try that
@@WalrusMcDonald12n2na2The siliconized acrylic caulk works great for sink rims and sealing gaps in wood trim before painting. Alex Plus is one brand I use but others also work well.
I've set thousands of toilets in my life with no issue and wax. But I always insist on getting that WC flange bolted to the top of the floor like it should be. You're starting behind the eight ball if it's too high or below the floor surface. I see new installs all the time where they set a knock-out flange in the subfloor before the floor people have finished. I can only assume they do that so they can get their water/air test done for the inspector. Putting a rubber test plug in the stub-up pipe I guess is too complicated. And....use the next size pipe around your stub-up so you can come back later and set your flange. I do agree on the siliconized sealer though or 100% silicone. Those Hercules wipes will easily remove any silicone residue....and even denatured alcohol will work. I haven't used plumber's putty for yrs now....just sits in the truck. Nothing wrong with it, it's just that silicone and siliconized caulk are so much better.
@TheReal1953 I'm sure there have been plenty of issues. You just weren't called back for them. Rubber is way better. Not a big concern on a slab. But on pier and beam, especially a trailer house, with particle board floors. Often times the toilet will shift on those weak floors and disturb the wax ring after a few years causing a leak. Not so with rubber.
I always use rubber seals because you are guaranteed a leak free install indefinetely. Also if they ever upgrade there is no need to buy a new ring. It's just better than wax.
@@mr.upcycle9589I always told customers to 'call me if there is a problem, not cuss me'. I have a good record, but not claiming I 'never' had callbacks. But they usually weren't toilet set issues unless the users were obese or the floor gave way for some structural reason. I'm not condemning rubber WC seals in any way. Just commenting that logically, one would abandon wax seals if they were a continuing issue. In my experience, they were not.
I've used the exact same Fluidmaster foam rings when I needed to do underlayment repairs under the toilets in our house. I've been pleased with the results.
Note: That is a 2 piece system. You don't necessarily have to use both black & blue foam rings. The black piece is used if the flange is below floor level and additional seal is necessary.
Really enjoy your videos & tips.
The problem you were having with the non-wax seals is that the piece of acrylic you were using was warping severely preventing it from being able to seal. That's a problem you won't see against the porcelain of a toilet. I've used them in my house and never needed to replace one after putting it in. I'm sure they'll fail eventually as all things do but to me they work incredibly well.
Yes. The warping acrylic issue is mentioned in the video. No Thanks for re-stating what the video states.
@@rfarevalo The point being that, he should have corrected the test by adding (at least) 2 more bolts, to give more consistent/even pressure all the way around, as a toilet would and get rid of the bicycle tire pump because it doesn't apply consistent pressure.
So your sarcastic reply was unwarranted.
My buddy is a GC and I helped him set with the blue one, also installed the blue one in my house. No issues, no sewer gas. Makes me more likely to upgrade my toilet because I don't have to deal with the wax next time.
I'm an old guy, and after wrestling with replacing a wax ring today, I'm switching to rubber next time. These old knees have had five surgeries, and all the scar tissue across the face of the knee caps does NOT like kneeling on tile floors any more, and especially so if I kneel on a closet bolt or a nut.
The tests are a great idea. Thank you for doing this. I'd like to see a couple of things changed on the tests, and see if you have a revised reaction. The pressure gauge should be moved to the pressure chamber. Right now, it is only reading the pressure in the hose. There is a large pressure drop across the Schrader valve when you are pumping, which masks your results. The other thing, is that if you use another metal ring or even a PVC flange over the acrylic plate, you would have even pressure around the whole seal, and would eliminate the bending of the plate, which also masks your result.
The maximum pressure that a ring can hold is not a real world issue. A rocking or unstable issue is an issue. Use very little pressure but rock the acrylic sheet to simulate a wobbling toilet to see what seal gives the best real-world performance.
I'm a home owner and have used several of these and they seem to work really well. Especially, if you have lift the toilet for some reason, you don't have a gooey wax mess to clean up.
Landlord here, I've laid 2 toilets personally with better than wax seals, and haven't had a single problem yet! I like them because, I'm not a plumber. I don't have the repetitive skills honed in like one. So it's significantly more forgiving using the better than wax seals. My landlord friends also use better than wax seals, and they swear by them! It's really a great deal to have some leeway installing toilets, for only $10.
Not a plumber but diy'er...used 'The Green Gasket' sani seal from Home Depot and it worked great. Almost 10 years later and still no leaks. My dad still prefers the wax rings though.
The green ones of 10 years ago were better as they had a flange that extended down into the pipe about 2 or 3 inches; the redesign omitted that feature
I will disagree. It is a great idea until you have to plunge and water would go up over the round part and leak out the bottom. I just changed the ring from say 4 yrs ago which I had a green foam ring. It was deformed and as soggy as a kitchen sponge.
@@KreemieNewgatt Yes mine did have the downward flange that directed waste into the drain I haven't tried one since that one as I haven't had to replace a toilet since then. If the new ones omit that design that seems like a bad idea.
@@scottratcliffe6337 you disagree that mine worked for 10 years without issue? How would you know that it did or didn't?
So for me I've been using the better than wax. For probably 6 years now. I've always been a big fan of wax. And I'm still using wax in certain occasions. But a lot of these new toilate, they have no grip to hold when you're trying to install them. They're odd shaped a lot of times they have these funky designs where you have to insyall the bolts. Inside the bowl so I started using the better than wax. Because it was a way I could get a seal. Cause you have to keep working the toilet sometimes to get the these funky toilets to set the way you want to. And that's just what has worked for me with some of these different toilet designs. But I've never really had any issue with it. And I really don't use the foam piece unless it's. Like specifically, an upstairs toilet situation where maybe the flange is sitting just just a little bit too low and I'll give that to my customers as an option as opposed to redoing the entire upstairs flange, which reinstalling the flange at the right height is the better option. But sometimes with budgets, people can't afford those kinds of repairs when they want to. And have to save up for the repair costs. So it's a kind of a Get me by Repair, but I've had a lot of success with the better than wax myself.
I used the Korky rubber ring during my bathroom remodel, as it allowed our contractor to reinstall the toilet every day without having to use a new wax ring each time.
The Korky Wax Free ring is made in Burlington, WI.
I've replaced literally thousands of toilet flappers. Korky makes by far and away the best toilet replacement flapper. You pay a bit more....but they're worth it.
I switched all wax rings to the blue rubber product you showed. Going strong for 7 years now even when one toilet shifted and rotated.
The seals are not the issue its when the toilet starts to wobble that is the issue. Wax or Rubber they will both seal for a very long time. I always wondered why there were not more than 2 bolts to hold it all down. If you had a 3rd ideally a 4th bolt on a toilet they would last a lot longer. People 'shift' when sitting on the bowl... that is the problem.
I thought the same thing until I noticed my crazy in-laws rotated the guest bathroom toilet 10 degrees somehow. I was sure it was going to need a new seal, but with a thermal camera and water tester it showed no leaks so I'll let it ride after straightening and tightening it back up.@@gags730
Most people are heavier these days.@@gags730
@@gags730 I remember when toilets had 4 bolts.
@@James-dt7ky Really? You would think they would have at least 3. Like the 3rd bolt in the back and for cosmetic reason I can see not having one in front
Homeowner. Replaced all 4 seals with rubber years ago. Never had a leak so far.
Should have tested the Better Than Wax without the black spacer because you rarely use it. I’ve installed dozens of toilets with the Better Than Wax and I’ve only had to use the black spacer one time.
I usually only need the spacer when the floor has been retiled with thicker material
was looking for this comment. He tested tall wax and short wax, but only tall rubber/foam. Also, not sure why we're measuring the quality of seal by the amount of pressure it can withstand. Aren't we checking for a good seal? Give it a little bit of pressure to have it pressurized, making sure there is a seal at all, then do a color/smoke test. Both products should pass with flying colors XD. 3:14 he even says it should never experience this kind of pressure, or anything close to it. And, like others have said, why does he keep using that same piece of acrylic bending it more and more?
I am not a plumber by trade, however, I have installed & repaired many toilets in the last 55 plus years , and I always used the wax rings and never, ever, had a failure with any of them.
Should have a metal ring for the acrylic plate to keep it flat.
To me, and I’m no plumber, but I believe that it really comes down to securing your toilet and preventing it from rocking. The rocking is really bad for wax because it doesn’t expand back to seal it from leaking. If you do it right, a wax ring should outlast rubber.
My plumber no longer uses the wax seals with hydronic heated floors. His concern is the heated floor will soften the wax too much.
been there done that and yes it will melt the wax 🙄
Ooohh very interesting, we don’t have heated floors here in TX so that’s something I would’ve never thought of.
Ahhh....makes sense
@@RogerWakefield a non-wax one would also be a better option if you are flushing your warm washing machine water through the toilet. I actually installed the same as the red one as in the video for this reason, just to be safe.
Also you should have gotten a thick metal ring to prevent the acrylic from bending as the rubber-based seal are not giving in when squished. A toilet doesn't bend like that so it wasn't a fair pressure test comparaison 😂
I have been setting toilets with wax on radiant slab floors for 21 years here in Alaska. The only time I have ever had a problem is if a toilet has a wobble and it’s not properly shimmed. I’ve never seen wax melt ever. If anything I think the warm floor makes the wax more sticky. The slab temp in my home right now is 85 in one zone and 74 in another and it’s -20 Fahrenheit outside right now. The concrete just doesn’t get all that warm. I’ve heard about “melted wax” for years, It’s a total myth.
I have used both wax and rubber. You're right about no clean with rubber. I have not had any issues with rubber.
I love the Korky rubber rings. Ive never had an issue. Ive used the Fluidmasters, too, but prefer the Korky. Not once have i found or have had a repoet of gas coming through. It seems they're more forgiving, too, of people dropping onto rhe toilet seat or shifting the toilet, somehow.
Korky retrofit fill valves are great as well
I have used Fernco wax free toilet seals several times with no problems.
Hey Roger, I just ran into this choice. I didn't buy them, the home owner did. I did a tile job in a couple bathrooms. The customer got this real thick cement covered foam board, instead of 1/4" Hardy backer. By the time I was done, the flange was now real deep below the tile. I told customer I needed the Jumbo wax ring. He brought those and the foam type. I wanted to try the foam type. With the toilet on the foam, it wasn't even squishing the seal down. So, I just used the jumbo wax ring. Worked great.
for very tall gaps, some recommend stacking an additional rubber/foam kit, so it can have as many as 2 rubber rings and 4 foam rings.
@@jkhijirida I've never seen an additional kit that I can buy. I'd have to get another foam ring and use the ones that come with it. And they aren't cheap.
@@macD723 you buy two whole kits and stack them one on top of each other. yeah, not cheap, but it's better than a leaky joint.
You should definitely try a stiffer/thicker piece of acrylic for these kinds of tests because the acrylic is the weak link in each test and I’m curious to see what they can really take.
I just tried the fluidmaster rubber gasket 2 days ago and it leaked! I had to pull the whole toilet back up again and used a wax ring. That's what I should have used to start with! So much for new and improved!!
Oh no! Was there a wax ring on there when you put the fluidmaster on there?
Same. Definitely prefer wax. Extra thick ones always do the job for me
DIY hone owner, bathroom remodel. New $500 Mansfield Barrett toilet with new marble tile floor.
I used the new blue better than wax silicone gasket.
The manufactured toilet sits higher from seal level sona thick or extra wax ring was needed.
After installation with wax a couple days later I had water under the toilet😢 R&R the toilet again, I couldn't see an issue with the wax ring but opted for the extra thick wax this time.
2 days later YUP Water on the floor...WTAF? 😮😮
R&R the toilet again, I couldn't see an issue with the wax ring, THIS TIME I opted for the blue silicone.
Easier assembling to set the toilet as a one piece unit.
2 days later AGAIN water inder the toilet... getting to be quite the toilet setting professional at this point 😂.
I bought another seal kit after taking measurements and finding this Mansfield Barrett toilet sits a little higher than the old toilet soni doubled ip the gasket sets.
2 days later WATER ON THE FLOOR.
I installed the ild toilet with one blue gasket and NO Water after a few weeks.
Did some slucing with some BLUE food coloring and found a manufacturer defect issue with the porcelain sealing around the toilet drain... SWEET $500 DOLLAR toilet and this is the quality of work.
Ordered another toilet and waiting the 2 months for delivery.
Finally installed it with a pair of blue gaskets and the world is spinning back on its axis again.
The blue seals are great. Less mess than wax BUT if you set the toilet right any seal will last for years.
I have the front bathroom toilet to R&R and will be using the blue seal for that job.
One thing about plumbers using wax is the SAME plumber probably won't be back to work on it a second time.
As a DIY home owner the wax is messy, but if uour having to pull up the toilet often you have other issues.
Probably 10 years ago now I was using a rubber accordion type toilet seal. It went on the horn of a clean toilet with a double sided tape, that was super tough, then you opened it up and set it allowing it to collapse as you set it, I would use them in a retirement home when I had a tenant who continuously broke their wax ring
I used the Danco one that you had in your thumbnail but didn't test. That's the one that's half rubber and half wax. Worked great for my application. Floor was very uneven and I would rock the toilet too much when installing a wax ring, causing a gap. The Danco one did a great job maintaining a seal while I adjusted the toilet to make it snug.
This is a hybrid type. I love this (Danco) it is the best one. The only one I use now.
It is the only one I use. Unbelievable the best one ever made. The only problem I have with it is. It is designed here but made in China 😢
@@chipcook6646 Probably gotta keep the price reasonable.
This channel is my go to for plumbing education, great video. Helps me a ton. Liked and subscribed.
Awesome! Thank you!
My upstairs bathroom has had the wax ring fail twice in the seven years we've been living here (first was installed by the people who renovated the house before we bought it, second was installed by me (I am not a plumber)), and both times the ring had a large crack and also appeared to have partially dissolved or something. When it leaked the second time last summer I replaced it with a rubber ring, haven't had any more leaks so far but only time will tell if it lasts as long or longer than the wax rings have.
Both failures resulted in water dripping from the dining room ceiling any time the toilet was flushed.
I’ve used wax rings, and the blue rubber one you tried in the video. Some of other rubber toilet rings are junk. The wax rings and blue rubber rings both work, except if using a PVC flange and it is too high above the floor and there is not enough room between flange and toilet to compress the rubber. In that case, use a wax ring. If the flange and floor are not parallel, use a wax ring.
Never allow a toilet to rock back and forth even a small amount when using a wax ring. The rubber rings have that advantage over wax rings, when installing a toilet. Supposedly you can reuse the blue rubber rings, but I never do.
Wood floors are never perfectly level, so I shim the toilet so it cannot rock when using a wax ring. The ideal flat floor for a toilet are large format porcelain tiles. I’ve never had to shim a toilet setting on a porcelain tile floor that was laid using a floor leveling system.
There are typically two causes for toilet ring failure. Improper installation or the toilet gets loose and rocks even a slight amount. That’s why I make sure even if the nuts are not really tight, the toilet does not rock. I use the thin flexible cutting board sheets and custom cut shims that are hidden beneath the toilet.
I started using the rubber seals from HD a few years ago in both new builds/remodels and repair/replacing faulty wax seal rings. The good thing about them is that they are not messy, so if you need to remove/replace the toilet, you simply reuse the seal. You are correct, in that there isn't going to be that much pressure on a toilet. I specifically like using them on retro fits, because around here, we have a ton of lead downpipes into cast iron. Well, as we know, that lead can deform and leak. When you have a wax ring, it will leak, because it follows the lead when it moves. The good thing about the rubber ring is that it has an extended flange that goes down into the lead pipe, so no matter how much the lead moves/deforms while under the "normal" use of a toilet, that extended piece will cover the gap within 1 to 2.5 inches. And we also know that if your flange/downpipe separate more than 2 inches, you have issues far beyond anything that a ring seal will cover, no matter what it is made out of.
Here in the Greater New Orleans area, we have major issues with houses settling constantly due to the ground subsiding. This is followed up by the house foundation needing to be leveled again. This issue can go on for decades, where the house sinks and the foundation guys lifting. Many times the plumbing, specifically the sewer side, does not always follow the house, so the flanges under the toilets can, and does falter and need to be repaired. This is where the rubber part shines really well for me.
The thing about the rubber part is that, as you showed, it comes with the extra ring. This ring is only needed if the flange is below the tile level. you can get a second one if your flange is more than 1/2 inch below the top of the tile, but that is rare, at least in my experience. Most of the time I am not even using the extra foam ring, and the rubber ring seal works just fine.
While I have only been using these for a few years now, I have never had one fail. One other great thing about them is that if the toilet needs to be removed for tile work or needs to be adjusted a little bit, it will not require a new wax ring.
I just used one in my own house last weekend, because the lead down pipe had deformed and separated just a 1/8th inch and you guessed it, it leaked. Of course my wife called me, frantic because the ceiling of the coat closet on the main floor had started to leak. So when I got home, I ripped the sheetrock open and saw a tiny little drip. I knew exactly what it was, ran up the block to HD and bought a rubber ring, repaired the deformed lead pipe and installed the new rubber gasket.
This is excellent, I really depend on being able to visualize certain aspects of a job in order to feel like I'm doing it right, so seeing how the wax and rubber seals work, is really helpful for me. Thanks!
I used that korky rubber one that didn't hold any air in your test. It hasn't leaked after a year and I'm happy with it. I think if your floor shifts it your toilet wobbles you are better off with a rubber and foam ring due to the elasticity.
I installed the oetey red rubber seal back in 2017 on all three of my toilets and i have had no issues at all. Northern Michigan one toilet is in the basement.
Wax all day but I do hate cleaning it up 😭
I’m right there with you brother…cleaning off the wax from the plexiglass in between testing was so difficult 😅
I'm using a better than wax ring on my TOTO Drake bidet for about 1 year now and it seems to be going strong with no issues and no smell at all.
Been following for a while, just from curiosity, but now this is valuable to me in my new job. Where I work I get asked about products like this but I don't know anything about plumbing. The video didn't teach me much but your comment section did! 😅 cool idea though! Just not a perfect test, lol. Maybe do a followup video reading some of the comments from DIYers and pros, since you said you don't use both products, and adjusting this test or trying a different test. Or no test at all. Lol. ✌️
I've used both originally wax and the problem i had is the wax getting compressed down too much from people sitting on it and causing the toilet to wobble. Here about a year ago i switched to the blue one you showed in this video and it's been solid since.
". . .from people sitting on it "
What exactly should they be doing? 🤔😉😂
Homeowner: I DIY'd one with the better than wax after seal broke on my toilet, it's been on our most used bathroom in the house for 2 years, no issues to date, very easy to install.
I have used the rubber gasket on both of my toilets and 7 years on I still don’t have any leaks. For my small sample size they seem to work great.
Plumber here. Fluidmaster rubber for me. If people lose power in Florida it gets hot enough to melt the wax rings. After hurricanes come through and people loose AC I get a lot of leaking toilets. I've never had a complaint about sewer gas.
Sometimes the floor isn't stiff enough, and the customer weighs 370 pounds. The toilet rocks a little no matter how correct the installation is, and the wax has no elastic deformation only plastic deformation - it ends up leaking. I use neoprene these days. I've had to go back and repair wax, but never rubber.
The plexiglass flexes where the toilet won't. I don't think this really tells us anything....
The wax will give before the toilet or the plexiglass, path of least resistance. So I think it's telling us something.
@@billrowan1957 so... how do you explain the plexiglass flexing at 5 minutes, 38 seconds? Plexi is a very soft, flexible material. In order to create a proper seal at that thickness it probably would have needed at least 8 equidistant bolts... and even then with plexi that thin, it might have cracked under pressure (probably radiating out from a bolt hole).
Two wax rings, cheap enough to create a proper seal.
I install the blue foam seal 6 years ago and have been working 100%ok no odors no leaks ,easier to work than the sticky wax seal!
I'm a home owner and I use the better than wax seal. I don't have any leaks or smells and it's been several years. I put one in my church with the same outcome. Also, the one at church I recently had to remove the toilet for water line issue and when I put the toilet back I had no issues with it resealing and that was a couple of years ago when I replaced the wax seal.
When I installed my new toilet about 10 years ago, I used a rubbery plastic seal. It had an adhesive flange that stuck to the bottom of the toilet, and an extension with ring barbs that fit snugly into the pipe. It looked like the Fernco FTX models, except that it was blue. To ensure the adhesive didn't eventually fail, I made a compressible ring of foam pipe insulation to fit under it, providing a constant upward force against it.
Hasn't leaked yet. I also grouted the toilet to the tile floor to provide a solid mounting, so as not to stress the seal. (If it leaks, I'll see it in the basement.)
If it's not the phone that's causing the problem but it's not sealing right you may need a thicker piece of plexiglass so it doesn't Flex so much because it may be flexing a little bit when you tighten on the ends not making a complete ringed seal the wax will conform to the bend in the in the plexiglass but the Rubber seal needs a flat surface to work this my suggestion. Cuz I've used one, and it's been 2 years or 3 and no sign of failure yet, and that was the blue first one you used. I install one for a friend of mine and it's held up really well for that whole time so far still working
I used the rubber seals on my toilets in my house with no problems. When I 1st use them it was by Fluidmaster that had foam O rings around a plastic sleeve. Lasted 15 years before I had to pull the toilet because of a clog. When I replaced it I used that blue one you tested.
I have replaced a lot of those rubber rings as a service plumber. I think after a while they dry up and shrink, causing the smell to come out. I had one that failed not even a month after installation. I sold the work, somebody else installed it and I felt like a real jerk having to reset this brand new toilet with wax when it should have been done right the first time.
I've had them dry up when I shut off the water while away on vacation. They leaked when I turned the water back on.
I am a General Contractor and I have been wondering about these for so long. I've used both, have had no problems with the new rubber seals (especially when dealing with older homes that suffer from people just laying new flooring on old flooring or those flanges just being before floor level), but I have not found a definitive answer for what is better. I mean, I like being able to reuse the rubber and not having to clean up that messy wax, but I just don't know which is better. I seriously question how the rubber seal holds up to a plunger because plunging creates a lot of pressure. I wish someone, somewhere could come up with a definitive answer.
I have used the Fluidmaster seals when I owned apartments, so I am somewhere between the DIY home owner and a pro. I didn't have any problems with them leaking or letting sewer gas into the building. I think that one problem with your tester not holding pressure is that the clear cover is quite flexible compared to how rigid a porcelain toilet. The plastic seal is made for porcelain, where as wax conforms to the shape of the clear lid.
I used the rubber one on a recent toilet upgrade, and loved the install. Even put a small bead of that clear caulk around the mating surfaces. No need to keep extra waxes because I'm clumsy at times, and cleaning up all of that funky stuff because you dropped it on a customers carpet in the bathroom.
I have used the rubber rings in areas where I have needed to remove a toilet more than once. This was in a construction project that required me to replace it to have a functioning toilet. It also compensates very well for tile elevated surfaces where the lock ring is low. They also work better in warmer climates and heated floors. I used to use the double wax ring and it works well, but can be messy on removal.
Your test is totally bogus. What you are testing is the bending strength is a thin, flimsy piece of plastic (while it is supported in only 2 places). The plastic is bowing & lifting away from the seal. With 4" pipe, the force on that plastic is about 12 times the PSI you are applying. At only 5 PSI, that amounts to 60 pounds. The plastic bends! Pressure is not what makes a toilet seal leak. It is shifting of the toilet, movement of the pipe, or shrinking of the seal with age (causing the seal to lose contact). The wax seal can only deform ONCE to accommodate irregularities in the toilet or pipe. The silicone seal continues to spring upward to accommodate movement.
The maximum pressure toilet can make is 1 or 2 PSI. Seals leak because they separate, not because of pressure.
Problem is with the circular flange most of the time wood around the toilet is rotted or does not cover around the pipe, you can not screw it on the toilet floor because there is no wood to screw it to, flanges has to be like square shaped that can be secured to the floor wood with the bolts most of the time the flange screws does not grab the floor.
Interesting test. Couple thoughts.
1. The plastic cover wasn't stiff enough to get an flat seal.
2. Would be cool to see these tested on an actual toilet as well. Which one is more forgiving and keeps a seal over time.
Something else I say a local plumber do was double up on the wax rings.. Maybe cover that topic as well.
As a DIYer and replacing 2 toilets and on both occasions used the wax ring and had leaks because I had no idea what I was doing and messed up the wax ring when setting the toilet, I would prefer the rubber ones. After the second toilet I just decided to call a pro from then on. I do not want toilet leaks. I will be happy to do the piping and other things like replacing my faucets when needed but I am not willing to try another toilet.
Hi Roger, the last time I installed a toilet with the rubber ring instead of the wax ring, the rubber, even though it was pliable, it cracked the toilet bowl at the mounting bolts !!, so, I had to buy a new toilet and I wound up using the wax ring instead!
I have removed toilets that have have been installed for many yours and were currently letting sewer gases into the house. When I removed the toilet to my surprise the foam had deteriorated and was leaking. I always use the extra thick wax to give me a good seal. I often find the flange is not level do to a new floor or some other renovation. Wax is the only way to go.
As a DIYer homeowner I would like to know if the wax ring is meant to seal fluid & gases? I'm asking because after using a plunger to unstop a toilet it started leaking water around the base afterwards. I enjoyed your demonstration. One factor that may have to be duplicated is the toilet surrounds the wax ring when it is set on top of it. That insures a better seal in the field.
When we built the house I used a rubber seal on one toilet and 35 years and a toilet change later later it is still holding. The other bathroom toilet has a wax ring which has leaked twice and been replaced three times.
Eight years ago (Dec 2015) I used the 7530 Toilet seal kit "better than wax" from Fluidmaster. So far so good. No leaks. No sewer gas. It outlived the tank. The tank recently developed a hairline crack and a leak. Replaced the tank but kept the bowl in place still attached to the floor with seal inside. I am not a plumber by any means. Just a home owner.
my flange sat up to high above the finished floor. tried all kinds of wax rings and when i tighten them down to the floor so the toilet didn't wobble they leaked. even tried to shim the toilet so it wouldn't smash the wax so much and still leaked. finally installed better than wax universal and was able to tighten the toilet to the floor and no wobble or leaks years later still no issues
I usually use wax but last week I used the rubber product product sold at Home Depot for $10. Toilet flange on center was 11.5 in from the wall and was a tight fit touching the back wall. Toilet flange had a repair split ring flange and the top of the flange was 3/4 below the tile. I used the rubber because it allowed for a flange below the floor surface and allowed for a slight shift according to the instructions. If it was not for the versatility of the rubber I may have had to melt two rubber wax seals together and double stack. Rubber product allows for toilet removal where the wax doesn't give you a second chance. As far as I know, no leaks so far and I would consider using it again. I keep wax rings in the van at all times; I'll stick to wax whenever I can.
Which seal would you recommend if the flange is not level? I’m replacing the seal on one of my toilets and the flange is in pretty good shape, but one side of it is a little bit more than half an inch above the floor while the opposite side is even with the floor. I’m not sure how important it is to be level. I did try to level the flange by removing the screws and putting a couple plastic shims under the lower side before screwing it back down. All this did was raise the whole flange up so that it’s above the floor on all sides, but still not level. Hoping one of these seals will still work without having to cut out the old flange a set a new one.
While I am not a plumber, I have set many dozens of toilets over the decades. I have never liked the wax rings because they are so stinking messy and hard to clean up. I started using waxless rings when I first saw them in the late 90's and have never had one fail. On the other hand, I have seen many wax rings fail for various reasons, mostly due to an improperly set toilet.
I had my parents' bathroom remodeled back in 2012 after my dad had a stroke. Due to them having only one bathroom, the man I hired to do the remodel needed to install, uninstall, and reinstall the toilet many times over the course of the remodel so that both of my parents could use it when necessary. We used a waxless ring, and it never failed. In fact, my brother bought the place and has lived there since 2014, and replaced the toilet in 2022, reusing the waxless ring that was installed on the old toilet 10 years earlier, and it has worked perfectly since then as well.
I will probably always use some sort of waxless ring when setting a toilet.
As a remodeler, I liked having a rubber seal one for temporary toilet hookups or on jobs where we have to take it out and hook it up a bunch of times, then we just reused it at different sites instead of having to keep a bunch of wax ones around all the time. We only ever used them as a temporary solution until we got the permanent hookup.
I've also used them as permanent rings a couple of times and have never had any problems with them. It didn't seem like the acrylic in the video was stiff enough- lots of flex.
When I first moved in there were roots growing in my sewer pipe and it required several runs with the auger to finally clear the drain. Luckily I have not had to auger the pipe for a couple of years now but after the second time pulling up the commode to run the big boy I went back with a silicone seal and it has proven to be a great seal and no mess to clean up. No more wax for me!
I use the Fernco FTS-3 3" Wax Free Toilet Seal, best on a new toilet install. They also make a 4", FTS-4 a little over 5.00 at Supply House.
Korky has been my go-to of late, but I'm going to try the Fernco next time. I like the design
@@KreemieNewgatt The adhesive on the Fernco is sticky like a mouse pad. After I put it on a new clean bowl, I put PL adhesive around the flange to bowl for extra grip and let it ry for a few days. Put a little liquid soap on the flange and inside the pipe and it slips right in. If you have one of the bowls that has a slight rocking due to floor problems Fernco will not be a problem because when it moves it does not break the seal because the final seal is IN THE PIPE not at the flange.
NEVER going back to wax. Zero problems with the rubber/foam seals (Fluidmaster Better Than Wax). You never know if the wax set right when you add pressure and you certainly can't lift it to readjust or else you're scraping wax and doing it again.
I have a question, just had my flange and gasket replaced by a plumber when I asked if he was using wax o rubber, he replaced both. Is that a good idea in your opinion and thanks for the video - informative.
Fantastic job! I learned something today. You do a great job of explaining to the non-plumbers such as myself, what you think is best for certain applications. I was hoping the foam gaskets worked better, but like you said, wax has been the best way to go. Thank you sir!
I put a rubber one on my fiancé's toilet and it was there for 6 years with no problems. She moved to my town and we got married. We used the rubber gasket on the front toilet and we did that in 2019. It is still working correctly. We used the green rubber one.
We tried that Korky one and just couldn't get it to work. Now I'm as amateur as they get so maybe I did something wrong, but we put the wax one on and no issues. As much as I didn't want to use wax, it worked over the rubber. We returned that one the next day.
Like you said your self there is a flange around the ring on the toilet. Also toilets are heavy and not flexible so even though there is only two fasteners on a toilet, I imaging just the weight of the toilet is going to give you a good gasket crush nice and even all the around the bolts are more to hold it secure than to crush the gasket in my opinion. I would recomend retesting this with something more similar to the bottom of a toilet. And possibly even add some more fasteners so you get a more even gasket squish instead of bending the acrylic. I personally don’t have a position as to which one is better. I do my own plumbing in my house and have used both wax ring and the rubber gasket. As far as I know I have never had any leak, I thought I had a wax ring leak once but it turned out to be the tank to bowl gasket. Got a toilet overhaul kit, and it’s been great ever since.
Always use a 110, felt or neoprene lined wax ring, ones [designed for wall hung toilets] otherwise you can blow out regular wax if plunging a main line stoppage, then rot out the flooring ! You will thank me later! Plumber Steve
I have an old house and used the red rubber/foam ring you showed off last. With how much my house moves in the winter/summer I wouldn’t do wax.
Half of my doors don’t shut in the winter due to the house movement lol. In two years I haven’t had issues yet. I have even moved my toilet a couple of times to redo the floor and paint behind it. It was nice not having to go back to the store to get a new ring. No sewer smells.
I used the silicone ring without the foam because my flange is proud. So far, so good, and one thing is for sure; the silicone is easy, and incredibly noob-friendly. My only issue was the flange was all busted up where the bolts go, but thankfully the previous house owners had put a steel flange repair ring on it.
My personal favorite is the sani-seal. Never had a leak or any problems with it. I've seen the aftermath of plenty of leaky wax rings.
I use the foam when it’s a chance the toilet will rock to try to maintain a seal. As you say a good wax seal that is consistent is strong. Had to pull a toilet for a remodel, I set the toilet 20 years ago, the wax held tight enough I had to rock it side to side to break it loose.
I personally like the rubber seals. They won't melt like wax seals will, especially if someone is using a bidet with warm water. I heard of an uncle that piped heat water to his toilet, apparently for a bidet. I would think a rubber ring in this case would be better than a dripping wax seal.
I used to do maintenance at three rental properties and changed out more toilets then I can count. I tried the "better than wax" rings one or two times and had a leak within less than 6 months. Regular wax has never failed me and I see no reason to use anything else, especially when it's included with most new toilets. The only reason not to use regular wax is if you know you'll have to reinstall the toilet multiple times like in a remodel scenario, but normally you should only need to install a toilet once so just use wax, it'll last longer than you most likely.
Hey there Roger...another great video, thanks! I've been watching your videos for a while now, and I have to say I truly enjoy your great information, and you always have a positive approach and good things to say about everything, unlike the other guy who constantly bashes everything. Life is too short to be in a bad mood all the time.
I subscribed to your channel and am looking forward to watching and supporting all of your videos brother!
Not sure your testing really convinced me on which ring to use
Well the only rings that actually sealed around the acrylic were the wax rings...the neoprene/rubber rings definitely have their place....I prefer wax
it was a bad test and not reflective of how a toilet seals.
I'm a homeowner and I set my toilet about 10 years ago with one of the plastic rings and it's still working just fine. Getting ready to set a second toilet using the plastic ring as well. Way less messy than wax!
I have been using Fernco adapters for 25+ years, I’m a DYI person. They glue on to the bottom of a toilet and have a rubber funnel below. I’ve only installed these in my own home and have installed about 6+ units. In this time frame only had one that leaked. There’s no wax, so it’s an easy cleanup and install. It’s not like the wax or rubber units you have shown. Great product, especially for the amateur. I’m surprised that you didn’t include it in your tests, it’s been around much longer than the ones you tested.
About 24 years ago we had our old house jacked up and sort of leveled. I replaced all of the plumbing my self. Switched from galvanized pipe and cast iron to all PVC and CPVC. Put in a new toilet and used a standard wax ring. It started leaking so I replaced it. The new one started leaking. I replaced it with the thicker wax ring and it started leaking. I think the reason was that the toilet was rocking or moving. I found a seal called Sani Seal which was made of some type of green rubber or plastic foam. It has been under the same toilet for all these years and has never leaked. I still have an extra wax ring in the cabinet just in case. On this same note I watch Drain Addict on YT in Australia. They have completely different toilet mounting types over there that I didn't know existed.
I used a rubber seal in the past and had no trouble with it. I would be interested to know if there are problems 5 years or more after installation...
Personally, I always use the adjustable rubber ones, because every single flange I've ever worked on is at a different height lol. I just never know. I like this test, but I'd be curious to see the results with a stiffer piece of acrylic. It bends too much in the middle for any of these results to be valid.
Ive used the Red + black foam one (Korky), Danco Perfect Seal, and the Blue better than wax flange gaskets.
None of them have had any problems at all over the past 2 years theyve been installed.
And yes, I bought all 3 to satisfy my curiosity.
The real demon in thw details is whether the floor is level or not, and then how to properly shim it proper
I've never seen these parts in the Netherlands. We mostly use the sanivesk manchet for example and the eccentric alternative.
What really is better than wax is to install one of those European style wall hung toilets. The piping is done in the wall. No chance of ring failure. Another option is a back outlet European style such as Sniflo or Caroma, which mounts on the floor and uses a connector pipe in the back, similar to a pvc drain pipe. Neither require a wax ring.
I have a condo in Fl. and it was leaking around the bottom, so I figured the wax ring needed replacing. I installed this toilet around 14 years ago. I've always done all of my own plumbing and electrical work in my homes. Now at 81 YO, it is getting tougher, so I hired a plumber. I had all of the water out of the tank so it would speed up the process. When the plumber came and he removed the toilet he discovered the flange was corroded and that was the failure point. In removing the old flange he broke the 4-inch pipe, he didn't have any along so he had to go back to the shop to pick up a few more parts. To make a long story short the charge came to $694.00 for this repair. His labor charge was $165/hour. Had I known it would have been that much I would have done it myself even if it took all day with frequent rest stops. I figured he charged me for the time to go and get the parts because he did not have a section of 4-inch pipe in the truck, and he also charged me for the time we had a BS session after he was done for the day. Since it was his last call for the day I offered him a soda, which he accepted. He was a nice guy but his company was not worth $165/hour.
I had a rubber one. Replaced it after a year. My toilet leaked. Couldn't belive it. Went with a wax ring. I was told rubber is better. I think the rubber misformed or somthing. It was awhile ago. Unless I got a cheap rubber one? Is there a better rubber seal out there?
I’d be interested in knowing what the pressure of an average plunge is
I've used them for a while now I like them
which one?
@@RogerWakefield I like the rubber ones
I learned with wax about 40 years ago. I don't know how many of those I've installed. About 5 years ago I tried the rubber type. Looked interesting. I don't carry wax anymore. They're too much trouble for me. I've had applications where wax will last for 3 years, then fail. Water comes to the ceiling below. Since I switched to rubber, no more problems. I can send even a new guy out and there won't be a problem. At least not with the toilet soil stack. He may screw up the water supply or something else.
I have tried many seals in multiple countries. The Aussies got it figured out, but the American toilets are still behind the times. That being said , i like the wax better. Have never gotten a callback on the wax, had at least 1 on the rubber. One callback is enough for me, no more rubber.
What do the aussies do?
I’m with QBall, what do the Aussie do?
@@RogerWakefieldthey go in the woods 😜
Their toilets are built a little different. They have an extended seal area on the bottom with a rubber seal that gets mounted instead of a toilet flange.
I can't post a picture, but the rubber seal is easily replaced, and the toilet van be pulled and reset multiple times on the same seal.