Bleeding CAV Fuel System On A Diesel Is A Royal Pain
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- How to bleed a CAV diesel fuel filter / water separator.
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CAV pumps are the hardest bleeding SOB's ever built.
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Yes! Rich the man with common sense. Prefill that oil filter. It will greatly reduce the chance of starting dry bearings. Keyboard warriors saying it introduces contaminants.... pssh please ... fresh oil cannot have contaminants and whatever particles are in the outside of the filter will get into the engine whether you like it or not.
Mark M I always prefill my filters. People are idiots lol
@@DirtRoadAutoRepair How do you prefill the upside down and sideways filters
iwtommo idk about upside down, but sideways I just fill it 1/3ish full so it doesn’t spill. Do you have any tricks of the trade?
@@DirtRoadAutoRepair Start the engine? Oil flow demands at idle are negligible - ages back we ran a toyota 4cyl with no sump and you could watch the crank spinning. It was a scrapper so good for a lunch break laugh. After a few minutes (2? 3?) we pulled a main cap and there was zero... ZERO apparent wear to the journal surface. Of course the car was up on the lift so wasnt being revved. Just idling with no oil pressure. That thing got driven onto the trailer with no sump (though the drive up the trailer likely hurt it a bit...)
The environment i work in knocking a bit of grit/dirt into an open filter element is a much more real danger than the 5 seconds of no oil flow an engine will see. Turn the key and save the messy hand and 5 minutes on your ticket.
iwtommo yeah when you drain the oil it’s not like every drop of oil drains from the engine. There’s still oil in all the bearings.
Hang on minute
The CAV fuel systems arent that bad
You only need to bleed them like this when you run out of fuel, not for filter change
For a filter change just leave the secondary filter slighty loose and pump lift pump until its full
Chamberlain tractors with Perkins motors have a hand lever so you can operate the lift pump from the injector pump side and this makes things easier
Great video Rich
Ive worked on several Perkins's over the years, we farm with Massy Fergusons, Love your videos!!!!
Ive worked on all types and ford/fordson and massey are the best. Easy to work on and they last. John deere is over complicated and cheap made parts. International are alright but that hot rod shifter wears out and you start jammin the gears together and those forks are high dallor to replace if you aint smart enough to beat the old ones straight.
Ive worked on all types and ford/fordson and massey are the best. Easy to work on and they last. John deere is over complicated and cheap made parts. International are alright but that hot rod shifter wears out and you start jammin the gears together and those forks are high dallor to replace if you aint smart enough to beat the old ones straight.
Great video Rich I can honestly say I have experienced every problem on those Perkins diesel engines with priming the fuel system. A simple fuel filter change for me turned into an all day complete nightmare just by having those o rings switched around. I replaced the primer pump also and had trouble getting those fuel lines started and keeping them from leaking. This is all good stuff to know I learned the hard way though lol.
Thank you so much for this video. This is the most similar system I've seen explained to what I am working on with this old Champ forklift.
I pulled the glass bowl and filter off , bought a adapter and a spin on filter. Works great.. Thanks
Good to know a guy can convert one of these 2 a standard spin on filter that entire filter set up on these is an absolute joke.
If the oil filter is mounted sideways I still put some oil into it, just below half so it doesn't leak out while I tighten it.
It's good to crank the engine just on the starter motor to help prime things. Obviously being careful to nor overheat the starter.
Gm 6.2 with mechanical pumps were fun too. They took forever to prime.
Oh, my God, they're AWFUL. Love my 6.2 but changing the fuel filters are a test of your patience
In the 70's I had a van with a Perkins diesel in it the fuel system in that had those rubber olives, they would spring leaks so often that I ended up carrying a tin of them and spanners to fit the union nuts so that I could change them on the roadside sometimes several times in a month. Got rid of the van after a couple of years of that.
we have an old cat loader like that its such a pain. we had to change the engine from the guys spraying it so much to get it stared.
Quick tip on cleaning up the plastic fuel filter (or water separator) bottom... Don't use brake clean to clean it out! It doesn't play well with the plastic. Tried that on my Racor setup a few years ago and it clouded up instantly. No leaks, but will be using diesel/kerosene to clean next time!
Had one of these pumps on an S4D Cummins. Would not pull fuel from the tank, so I had to put shop air to the return line to get it to prime. Fired two cranks after that.
Still seeing those CAV filters (Wix 33166) on modern, small Perkins engines (actually Shibaru built) and recently acquired by Caterpillar. Many machines with them now have rubber primer bulbs in the feed line from the tank, which greatly simplifies the bleeding process. But yea, there's a lot of volume to fill in those 3 piece housings and a lot of potential leak points too.
Runs great Rich!
Thats the right way to bleed the system. I had a blocked Filter at my Bosch rotay pump, stranded at an Autoparts store. Of course no tools in the car, but i had luck installing the dry filter and push the air trough the injectors by starting the engine at full trottle and stay on the gas until it runs agin on all cylinders.
i would have bought a quart of cheap auto transmission fluid. diesel engines runs so smooth on atf , conditions the pump and seals
Worked on several diesels with similar type systems for 20 years in the US Air Force. They are indeed a pain in the rump, especially if you have to fix someone else's "fix" in the fuel system.
come on man im from Morocco ! btw love your videos and all the love to Canadians.
An interesting thing I have seen on these CAV filter setups. The newer ones have the water bowl AFTER the filter element in the flow direction. Customers who don't maintain them often enough get a bunch of water and aluminum corrosion grit and crud sitting in the bowl with a clear shot straight to the injection pump. All I can figure is some designer was unclear on the concept of how these are supposed to work. I recently discovered the spin-on kit also but I have not installed one yet.
I have had and changed many CAV296 filter elements in marine use, and yes - they can be somewhat difficult to assemble, especially when there is not enough space to actually see how the new o-rings are seated. For example the Racor 500/1000 Turbine -type filters are much better in that respect.
I go through that every time with my massey ferguson 290. 4x4. A royal pain.
The rubber is called on olive o ring if you ever need to order them from a Massey dealer
I have a 1845c that starts and dies. Changed fuel filter. Got air out of the system I think. Getting fuel to the injectors. Starts and dies. Sitting overnight it will run longer. Maybe 15 seconds but then back to start and die again. Checked fuel solenoid. It's getting 12v. Tried external power also. Went and replaced. Also put a new oem mechanic fuel pump on. Last night I tried even feeding the fuel filter with a 12 electric pump. Still fires right up but then just dies.
This machine has the 4bt case model with the Lucas cav pump in the video.
Yes tell me about it. I work on cranes and the kobelco 1100g has 3 of these.
Just get an air gun from the compressor, and with a towel put it so it blows air into the fuel tank, air pressure will move the fuel very quickly. Dont know if i explained well, im not good at english.
I got a Deere 1830 I changed the fuel filters and got it running, ran for about 10 minuets then seemed to run out of fuel but still had some in the tank
It's probably sucking air somewhere. Check every fitting and seal you touched.
Any tips I am all ears
Great information thank you for sharing!👍
I often wonder as a field mechanic why all fuel filters are not spin on... to many other versions the glass cracks plastic breaks and o-rings snap. Then there you are in field going well I need a fuel filter and parts. Machine won't run annnnd... parts are at a warehouse 4 states over. Been there many times. I mean you can be careful but if its leaking when you get there you often leave wait for parts then come back. What a pain.
I have a Ford F100 truck with a Perkins 4-203 engine and is even worse: exaust manifold is next to the filter, so if you need to replace filter or bleed the lines, for sure you will burn your hands!
wtf. thats the reason I bought a universal water seperator for may old truck. easy to install and maintain.
Eh? What the ....? I remember on the farm we would just swap out the fuel filter on the sides our our JD tractors. I admit those where 60s and 70s model tractors (4010, 4020, 3010, 3020, 5020) but it was a "snap". O-rings were part of the glass filter housing thingy and it was held on by a piece of spring steel.
full flow and bypass systems
If you lived closer I'd get you to rebuild my oliver 88 engine . Good video Rich
know anyone with a PTO clutch for an oliver cockshutt?
The Inspector needs its own channel
Im actually suprised how easy the bleeding on the Volvo trucks here in europe is! usally its done through the dashbord display or it has a handpump. :D the cables for the electrical pump can be broken so sometimes u just change the cup and the cables. pretty easy on the new truks! :D
Sadly the Volvo construction vehicles aren't as easy, you have to do it yourself
On the ones I worked on at Penske most of the trucks had a fitting somewhere on the fuel system...usually at the fuel/water seperator...where we could connect a device and force-feed fuel down its throat. Worked a treat; I've seen VNLs cackle to life in seconds after having major injector work done and I, myself, have gotten several DD15s alive again with that thing which had pretty much no fuel in the injection system. Hook up the device, turn it on, turn the key on, wait a few moments, spin 'er over, and she'll kick first try.
Great video deboss
Great video
I had faith in you, I knew it would start.
Awesome Bud!
A diesel mechanic in cable knit sweater...are you sure you’re not from Quebec?
motormaker he probably got it from the thrift store lol
If you have to pre-fill a lube oil filter that small to avoid engine damage on startup the oil pump is so fucked that it's gonna be damaged regardless of a pre-fill or not. The pump should be putting out enough volume to fill the filter and then get oil into the main bearings before the engine has a chance to fire even if that filter is bone dry when it goes on.
I never pre-fill oil filters. Just makes them harder to hold onto, heavier, more awkward to work with.
Luckily don't to seem to see to many cav filter housing anymore, god they were a pain in the ass compared to other filters. Being in the UK we came across them a lot 😂
I have a loader that the fuel pump got so worn out i had to bleed the pump every day. That was a pain, but it did have an electric lift pump.
that's a air leak not your pump.
@@mog5858 yes you are right, seals and bushings on throttle shaft were so worn it was leaking.
I think CAV systems aren't any worse than other systems to bleed, but they are a PIA with so many places to develop an air leak.
I rebuilt a cav pump with a kit and followed CZcams instructions. I can't seem to get the pump to move fuel. I've bled the thing and filter repeatedly and have a full fuel tank. This tractor does not have a manual fuel lift pump. Suggestions appreciated
Deboss Garage do you have any suggestions to finding fuel leak on Massey Ferguson 1100. Everytime I go to start the next day the fuel has leaked out somewhere in the line and it cranks for forever or I have to pump the lift pump for minutes with bleeder open on injection pump. Then crank it for a bit.
Hey would you be interested in putting a duremax in a Tahoe
It's not so a pain in the ass when you get used to it. I usually don't use the primer pump, instead I use the the starter motor with runs the primer pump much faster, to blead the air out of the system. If the entire system ist full of air I unscrew both bleading screws and wait until the fuel pours out, then screw them in gently, run again the the starter motor until fuel pours out without air, done. After that same procedure as shown in your video. Important the fuel has to be squirting out of the high pressure lines, simple dripping out of the lines is to less. For more MF related stuff head to the channel engineerlikesfarming
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Yes, I used to work for an MF dealer. Can't say that I thought of it as a hassle, it just had to be done. I don't remember that they leaked much, but yes it's a bit fiddly to fit new rubber seals on the lines. Sometime someone had rounded of the heads on everything before the tractor came to us. Use spanners that fit well and pay attention, and that won't happen.
A friends perkins froze just a couple of weeks ago in the tank due to water (drained out nearly 6l of water from the tank) so it ran the filters and pump completely dry.
I couldn't even be bothered to use the bleeding screws. Just opend ONE of the injectors and started cranking. Didn't evevn take 30s before i started to fire. Just tightened the line back up and it fired it up straight away. Allways done it like that, Cav, bosch, lucas, sims.... and worked every time
Very few things feel better than when the engine you rebuilt builds oil pressure and then fires.
Not much feels worse than an engine you just built fires and has no oil pressure ...
We have to do this on a shit tone of 500 hour services on Volvo construction vehicles.
Rich i've got a question for you and maybe you've run into it at some point. I have say 1970s Allis Chalmers backhoe and we just got it running again after sitting around for years because it would stop moving under load. it had a trans line leak for a long time. And when my dad and grandpa would put fluid in the machine it would move again. Well it runs again but will not move from it's resting place. i jacked it up with the out riggers and the rear wheel seem to be locked up. Any ideas?
Would be willing to bet the brakes are seized.
yup my defender has a cav pump on the original 2.5na pain in the ass
smooth
Nah they're not that bad, I've rebuilt many cav injection pumps, they're far from the worst diesels to bleed
tee hee He said "old rubbers".
I'll never complain about changing filters on a Cummins again. They're a walk in the park compared to this
The 4th gen Ram Cummins is a thousand times worse than this. You’ll cut your knuckles the first few times but the arm cramps never go away. I’m so glad I got rid of that truck. 2nd gen for life.
atta boy!!
hey that's the same engine i have on my MF :)
208 likes and no views. Lol, that's some tricky shit right there!!
worse diesel system i find to bleed is the mercedes om605/6 no primer on them
DEBOSS for some reason reminds me of a human muskie.
Rich, synthetic oil doesn't matter. They are filling brand new heavy duty diesel engines with 10w-30 synthetic oil from the factory to get 75,000 mile service intervals. They use molybdenum disulfide grease to assemble them, so there is essentially no break in period now.
you cant use grease on the cylinder bores...
Better machining, and possibly different steel in liners and rings explains that.
All engines have a break-in period. ALL engines. It is simply a nature of how engines function.
P4108?
So why would synthetic oil not let it break in like regular?
Too much lubricity. You want *some* wear during break-in because it's that wear which seats everything in.
Why can't you drill plastic drain out and replace with a drain plug would be so much easier
Tony Tennessee it’s glass.
@@markm0000 looks like the bottom with drain looks aluminum and can easily drilled and taped
because thats a lot of extra work for a simple filter change
@@fastinradfordable ok
absolutely hate them, i own 2 VM engines both have a bosch inline 4 cyl and 2 Fiat engines, both with cav, on 2 different truck, sold them month ago due to CAV, pretty useless, no better performance, just pain in the ass when you're in need and fuel go low, of course, they start to pump air, you can set all new, check everything, will always work in this way. Trash them all!
Rich you didn’t say lubricate your seals.Shame on you! LOL
The grease on his hands acts as a pre lube on everything he touches.
Hi shop cat! Does shop cat have a name?
Marlene!
The pair of them was nuts and bolts but I believe only ones still around. Guess I didn't really help you there but now at least it's a coin flip that you'll get it's name right
Marlene is nuts n bolts’ mother
That’s it. If you can fill the filter...fill it. Common sense.
IF you need to prime an oil filter to prevent engine damage on the next startup your oil pump is totally shot. They should be pushing enough volume to fill the filter and get oil to the main bearings within the time between the starter engaging and the engine actually firing.
No view club
Smart but not to smart....where are your gloves?? Your about as smart as Baldwin with there upside down logo.
lucas is a pain in the butt , bosch or bust.
Liar, first start was in the previous video))
Horrible video... I really hate when they skip important parts or cutting down the bleeding amd starting
Any tips I am all ears