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Excellent presentation Bruno!! Kara and I watched it together and were very impressed. I immediately found the Varela interview in my CoEvolution Quarterly collection and it is still thought-provoking. We have sent this link to at least one former Cybernetics grad from San Jose State, and we are thinking about sending it to other folks as well.

Your quantum theory won't work with the ignorant they will always follow the dear leader.

It sounds tome that those who yell loudest first wins. Pathways are set and momentum carries that assumption forward right or wrong.

Session starts at 7'21"

thanks ALOT for sharing this! to many of us, it's an obvious fact that we must transform our modern societies vastly but even my progressive, politically active peers are pretty clueless of how to initiate such transformations. most read marx and/or take part in protests every now and then - and that's it. but as this "strategy" hasn't brought us anywhere for the last 100 years, i'm currently reading a bit about social change and now found this video here. and i think social cybernetics and complex systems theory may be the most important parts to the puzzle of social change theory.

Wondering if and how that might fit or can be described by Steven Wolfram's hyper graphs and his physics project from 2022

You need to establish if this so called pandemic was contrived or if it was true in the first place. If one of the goals ofc cybernetics is to correct epistemological errors (Mary Catherine Bateson) then please ask the question: what is a virus and if such a thing actually exists. You people are falling right in line instead of questioning accepted knowledge of things.

Furthermore most teachers are very very stupid.

Love this. Teacher is learner. If we come into the world already with knowledge according to Plato and learning is remembering, it seems to me that the child being fresh (in more ways than one)and not corrupted by the world is the better teacher.

Incredibly energizing! Thank you, Larry!

Oooh, excited to listen thru the video. I've been interested but long unfamiliar with feldenkrais, but there have definitely been some exciting strides in the incorporation of second order cybernetic concepts in movement, notably the ecological dynamics model for skill acquisition (featured in the Perception and Action Podcast).

liebe grüsse gute arbeit

This is awesome! I love feldenkrais. Such a great example for second-order cybernetics.

I have both second and third order cybernetics models based on shadows (mathematical) of mobius strip dissections. Similar to the 3 body problem symbol.

Thanks.

Very interesting talk.

This is very interesting discussion.

George Soros seems to be quite a philosopher himself.

Very under appriciated discussion.

This discussion is getting interesting.

It sound interesting.

Many thanks for this conversation and upload!

What a sweet, intelligent women Mary seems to be.

There's nothing about cybernetics she's daydreaming

Awwwwwwww ----- so wonderful statements, so wonderful story of their first encounter.

Please reconsider your language in relation to like a 'stillborn child' - for many parents who have experienced the loss of an infant, a stillborn child has not disappeared as soon as they have arrived, they continue to be part of their family, their life, their whole selves. This is not a comparison that should be made lightly; I would have hoped that family therapists would have more awareness of the potential impact of their language and the meanings this may create.

This is extremely academic and intellectual. I may be very mildly titillated cerebrally but remain unmoved. The persistent focus on AI seems like navel gazing. I don’t see any bottom up thinking from somaticists, indigenous knowledge, embodiment educators or workers in the field. In particular, human movement and the body are grossly underappreciated. Shouldn’t things like history, medicine, mental health, therapy and evolutionary mismatch or maladaptation be a part of the conversation? What about neuroscience, cognitive science and motor control theory? This is extremely academic and mentalist in focus. It is not at all physiological or anatomical. One extreme of cybernetics is this top down intellectual discourse. The other is its ability to frame and contain bottom up structures of meaning such as those found in the body and the earth. For me that is sadly missing here. Cybernetics needs to be fleshed out not made even more arid!

I am not sure this does justice to the urgency of our global pandemics. AI and COVID are nowhere near the top of my list.

Fantastic discussion. Thanks very much

⭐ *promo sm*

Where can I get more information on the therapist featured in this video? He speaks my language!!! thx for the show

for hardcore transdisciplinarity, look up glueck, the ultimate taboo cybernetics ^^

great work, but it's much simpler than that. just google glueck the ultimate taboo. ^^

Boring.

Margaret Mead’s legacy has been carried on so well by Mary Catharine and Sevanne. It makes me so happy to know that these amazing people will always be remembered and cherished. ❤

It should be noted that Margulis covered the spectrum of ideas from the revolutionary to the conspiratorial(HIV). This statement by her that Gaia also looks at us, is in my view contentious and suggests a complexity of Gaian consciousness for which we have no evidence. Lacking evidence we can use an analogy. Do you as a multicellular organism look at the micro organisms that populate your biosphere/logy? For the most part we do not, unless, there are symptoms of disease or infection that threatens the organism, but this is usually do to a foreign invader causing an infection. Humanity is not a foreign invader. Also, Earth as Gaia, if it is a superorganism, has an environment with which it lives within, aka, the solar system. And the solar system has an environment it exists within and it is called a Galaxy. Both of these systems we have only known about for a little over a century. If Earth's environment is no externality, that we are within it, then we also have to consider that the solar system is not an external environment to Gaia. Much of the anti human hand wringing that wishes to blame humanity for changes in earth's environment deliberately do not take the solar system into account, and that is because the IPCC has a political agenda rooted in eugenics. 'Read the IPCC mandate, its purpose is to focus on the human causes of climate change. If it was a scientific endeavor it would not have limited the causes to just that of humanity. And there are reasons why many scientists associated with the IPCC have left. Mostly it has to do with the political interpretation of their science.

I looked at Ria Baeck's book 'collective presencing' and a quote on page 6 answered the question i asked at the end of Cheryl's wonderful talk: "When the forms of an old culture are dying, the new culture is created by a few people who are not afraid to be insecure' - Rudolf Bahro

6:00 The words "science," "schism," and "schizophrenia" do not share the same etymological root, even though they may sound somewhat similar. 1. "Science" derives from the Latin word "scientia," as previously mentioned, which means "knowledge" or "skill." 2. "Schism" comes from the Greek word "skhismos," meaning "a cleft" or "a division." In this case, "schism" refers to a separation or division, often used in a religious or organizational context to describe a split within a group. 3. "Schizophrenia" has its roots in Greek as well. "Schizo" means "split," and "phrenia" refers to the mind. "Schizophrenia" is a psychiatric term used to describe a mental disorder characterized by a split or fragmentation of thought processes and a disconnection from reality. While these words may share a similarity in terms of how they sound, their etymological origins and meanings are distinct.

😓 𝐩яⓞ𝓂𝓞Ş𝐦

Funginetics lol

We saw about 50 years of excuses that occurred when we did not closely adhere to normal science and did not observe morality as a result.

I love my sister.

What did Macy's have to do with the founding of the work known as cybernetics?

Glanville died only a few weeks after this presentation, December 20, 2014. @32:23 After noting how humans are obsessed with preserving every possible endangered species, Glanville says, "I find it strange that we're not interested in different ways of thinking. ...Design gives us a different way of looking at and solving the things we call problems." @34:42 On conversations: "Meaning is in my head and your head, and what's in your head and what's in my head are completely different. They're absolutely unavailable to each other." Meaning is always ambiguous, and language can't do as an unambiguous code "unless we do a lot of work." And yet "conversation is a circular activity" like any self-regulating system. But, "How about if you had a conversation with yourself? How would you do that?" You don't steer it like a self-regulating navigator. And everyone has different frames of mind and modes of being at various times, so you could write notes and look at them later, being able to see it from such different frames of mind. @40:57 "For me, this activity -- this thing of holding a conversation with yourself, usually through paper and pencil -- is what is at the center of designing. This, for me, is the act that makes design, design. Without this, you're not doing design, you're doing problem solving." @41:56 "And this is, for me at least, a major source of novelty in designing: that because there is always this difference between personae, between marking and viewing, between two people...there's always this potential not to look at it as an error, but to look at it as an opportunity. And I think that what designers do is they make errors that are opportunities; they hold conversations with themselves. And it is through this that they manage to do something which is quite, quite magical, which is to find the new. And it's through this that designers 'solve problems' [scare quotes] -- but they don't. What designers do is they go on a sort of wander through the forest and find a beautiful place to sit down and say, 'That's why I went on this walk today.' It doesn't mean that you're not dealing with the functional aspect of things. It doesn't mean that you're not dealing with well-madeness. It just means that you leave room for the delight for yourself of making something that you haven't expected, and for the delight that this can bring others. And this form of activity is entirely cybernetic. And that's why I say that cybernetics and design are opposite sides of the same coin. At least my cybernetics and my design are. And I hope that for some of you, now your cybernetics and your design are. Thank you."

Wow. I am so humbled to be able to watch-listen to these two giants discuss science, philosophy, perception, and reflection. I was fortunate to meet Von Foerster in the late 1980s when he got me started on a research project on systems science education (now outdated, "Education in the Systems Sciences: An Annotated Guide to Education and Research Opportunities in the Sciences of Complexity"). For greater depth on Maturana's views shared here, read his "From Being to Doing" - a fascinating extended interview with him on his views of being a scientist and an observer. I came here because I had not heard that Mr. Maturana had passed. Sadly, I can find few obits of him. RIP dear Humberto, May 6, 2021.

Amazing work thanks for uploading

Neologisms, tears, and ephemeral wholeness - sounds like an Eckhart Tolle presentation. This is strange for ASC! Dr. Pangaro said hello, Dr. Bunnell said she wished she knew more about the speaker so that she could introduce the speaker, but then, we see that this speaker was invited because of a "scramble" to find a replacement speaker, AND, the speaker reveals that she spent just two weeks getting up to speed with cybernetics: "I actually took the opportunity when Pillay [Dr. Bunnell] got in touch with me two weeks ago to just immerse myself in the field of cybernetics, I want to say more deeply, but there's only so much you can sink into over the course of two weeks." Don't the members of ASC, and the general viewer, deserve more? Deleuze and Guattari were not cyberneticians; and neither is Ms. Hsu!

Life is interdependent, all life is. One can't be without the other.

Mysterious happenings in the midst of these Circles. As per Wittgenstein you already said too much.