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Theme Parchive
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Registrace 4. 11. 2020
Welcome to the Theme Parchive, a channel about theme parks (you probably guessed that from the terrible portmanteau name).
We are currently posting our Archives series on the first Friday of the month, and Sightlines series on the third Friday of the month. The Archives explores the history of specific theme parks, focusing on the stories of the people who made them. Sightlines is a series discussing theme parks from design, engineering, artistic, and historic perspectives, with topics ranging from the broad (What is a theme park?) to the narrow (the history of the Omnimover ride system).
We appreciate you taking the time to check out the channel, and humbly ask you to subscribe to help us grow, if you find our videos interesting.
We are currently posting our Archives series on the first Friday of the month, and Sightlines series on the third Friday of the month. The Archives explores the history of specific theme parks, focusing on the stories of the people who made them. Sightlines is a series discussing theme parks from design, engineering, artistic, and historic perspectives, with topics ranging from the broad (What is a theme park?) to the narrow (the history of the Omnimover ride system).
We appreciate you taking the time to check out the channel, and humbly ask you to subscribe to help us grow, if you find our videos interesting.
The History of Knott's Berry Farm - "Cedar Fair"
In 1997, the Knott family sold the Berry Farm to the coaster-focused amusement park company Cedar Fair. The following decade under new management is often regarded by lifelong fans as the worst period in the park's history.
Why? In short, Cedar Fair management didn't understand the culture that Walter Knott had grown into his park over the past half century. Their decisions over the first decade of the new millennium reflected their lack of experience managing theme parks like Knotts. At the same time, they installed some of the thrill rides that are now synonymous with Knott's Berry Farm.
We owe an enormous thanks to the Orange County Archives, holders of the Knott's Berry Farm historical collection. Without their generosity and friendly assistance, we would not have access to many of the incredible historic images and videos in this series. In particular, Chris Jepsen was of vital importance. He selected many of the images in this series based on our storytelling needs, and his keen eye for quality, yet-to-be-published images made this series infinitely better. All the images he selected - more than we could fit in these episodes - are freely available to the public on the OCA Flickr account. He also runs a delightful and insightful local history blog, which we highly recommend. Tell him Theme Parchive sent ya! You can find it here: ochistorical.blogspot.com/
If you like this video, please subscribe to the channel, to make sure CZcams serves you the next one and you don't miss the next part of this fascinating park's story. Also, let us know you enjoyed it in the comments. Those things really do help us grow, especially as a fairly new channel, and that helps us make more videos like this one.
Want to help support the channel further? Visit us at: www.patreon.com/themeparchive
We also now have channel memberships! Join the channel to get access to perks:
czcams.com/channels/ZLLVSaT4LQQVi5AK27mHcg.htmljoin
The official social media accounts we might actually use from time to time:
themeparchive
themeparchive
Thumbnail original image credit: Knott's Berry Farm
Why? In short, Cedar Fair management didn't understand the culture that Walter Knott had grown into his park over the past half century. Their decisions over the first decade of the new millennium reflected their lack of experience managing theme parks like Knotts. At the same time, they installed some of the thrill rides that are now synonymous with Knott's Berry Farm.
We owe an enormous thanks to the Orange County Archives, holders of the Knott's Berry Farm historical collection. Without their generosity and friendly assistance, we would not have access to many of the incredible historic images and videos in this series. In particular, Chris Jepsen was of vital importance. He selected many of the images in this series based on our storytelling needs, and his keen eye for quality, yet-to-be-published images made this series infinitely better. All the images he selected - more than we could fit in these episodes - are freely available to the public on the OCA Flickr account. He also runs a delightful and insightful local history blog, which we highly recommend. Tell him Theme Parchive sent ya! You can find it here: ochistorical.blogspot.com/
If you like this video, please subscribe to the channel, to make sure CZcams serves you the next one and you don't miss the next part of this fascinating park's story. Also, let us know you enjoyed it in the comments. Those things really do help us grow, especially as a fairly new channel, and that helps us make more videos like this one.
Want to help support the channel further? Visit us at: www.patreon.com/themeparchive
We also now have channel memberships! Join the channel to get access to perks:
czcams.com/channels/ZLLVSaT4LQQVi5AK27mHcg.htmljoin
The official social media accounts we might actually use from time to time:
themeparchive
themeparchive
Thumbnail original image credit: Knott's Berry Farm
zhlédnutí: 625
Video
The History of Knott's Berry Farm - "Roaring"
zhlédnutí 3,5KPřed 5 měsíci
After a string of early successes in the first several years after she took over Knott's Berry Farm for her aging father, Marion Knott found herself in a spot of trouble. The newest land she'd spearheaded development on flopped hard. It was obvious even within the first year that the area would need to be redeveloped. That redevelopment would shift the park's theme from California of the 1800s,...
The History of Knott's Berry Farm - "Marion"
zhlédnutí 1,9KPřed 8 měsíci
In the late 1960's, Walter Knott finally retired, at almost 80 years old. He'd spent the previous seven decades working to support his family. He turned control of his western theme park to his youngest daughter, Marion. Over the following several years, Marion Knott would begin leaving her own mark on the park. Fifty years later, some of these new additions, like the Calico Log Ride and Hallow...
Does Theme Park Size Matter?
zhlédnutí 582Před 9 měsíci
Theme park companies like to tout the size of their parks as a selling point. And no one wants to be labelled a "half-day" park. But does theme park size actually matter? Does a bigger park mean a better park, as the emphasis on size would seem to imply? In this episode of Sightlines, we try to answer those questions and more. If you like the video, please subscribe to the channel. Also, let us...
The History of Knott's Berry Farm - "Independence"
zhlédnutí 2,2KPřed 9 měsíci
Many feared the opening of Disneyland would be a problem for Knott's Berry Farm. Instead, it brought even bigger crowds to the park. Over the course of the decade following Disneyland's opening, Knott's Berry Farm grew, expanding its offerings to include mechanical rides for the very first time. The concessionaire on the first mechanical ride would also become of on the park's most important de...
How to make Spooky Music for Theme Parks
zhlédnutí 238Před 10 měsíci
Sound design is probably the second-most important aspect of theme park design, after visual design. And by far, the biggest part of that is music. Today, to celebrate October and theme park spooky season, we're going to take a look at how to make spooky, themed music that could be used in a zone, haunted house, ride, or other attraction. Obviously, this is not an exhaustive exploration, and we...
Archives: The History of Disneyland - Season 1 Supercut
zhlédnutí 1,5KPřed 10 měsíci
From the time he was a boy, Walt Disney dreamed of owning an amusement park. By the time he realized that dream as an adult, he made something that changed the world of entertainment forever. Join us as we follow Walt from lazy Sundays spent daydreaming about his park to the chaos and confusion of opening day. This series originally released monthly as seven individual episodes. To celebrate th...
Walt and Walter: comparing the founders of Disneyland and Knott's Berry Farm
zhlédnutí 1,1KPřed 11 měsíci
One of the weirdest facts about theme park history is that, in the 1950's, two men named Walter built some of the first theme parks less than 10 miles apart in Southern California. If you've been enjoying our Archives series on Disneyland and Knott's Berry Farm, you're familiar with these two characters already. Walter Knott and Walt Disney had many things in common, aside from their name. They...
The History of Knott's Berry Farm - "Calico"
zhlédnutí 7KPřed 11 měsíci
There was no more farming at Knott's Berry Farm by the early 1950's. What started as a few displays to entertain the guests waiting for chicken dinners had grown into a business all its own, with concessionaires running the different shops, rides, and attractions around the park. Knott's Berry Farm even welcomed celebrity guests, like Mr. Walt Disney. But Disney's visits weren't just for pleasu...
We need to talk about guests mistreating Cast Members.
zhlédnutí 479Před rokem
In this episode of Sightlines, we speak with Preston, a former Disney Cast Member, about the issue of character performers facing mistreatment from guests. We cover what it's like to work as a character performer, what kinds of issues come up with bad guest interactions, and what we, as theme park fans, can ask these companies to do to help limit these problems. If you appreciated this video, p...
The History of Knott's Berry Farm - "Town"
zhlédnutí 9KPřed rokem
By World War II, the Knott family had been running their berry farm for more than twenty years. The chicken dinner restaurant drew crowds of thousands, and in a attempt to divert the attention of waiting guests, Walter Knott began building a ghost town. What started as a handful of facades quickly grew, adding attractions, stores, another restaurant, and eventually into the Knott's Berry Farm t...
You (probably) don't want to live in Walt Disney's version of E.P.C.o.T.
zhlédnutí 1,4KPřed rokem
In 1966, just weeks before his death, Walt Disney filmed a special preview of the plans for his "Florida Project". This was the world's introduction to the Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow, or E.P.C.o.T. Unfortunately, with Walt's passing, most of these plans remained forever in the realm of imagination and dreams. Like many others, we wondered what the original E.P.C.o.T. plans wou...
The History of Knott's Berry Farm - "Chicken & Ghosts"
zhlédnutí 5KPřed rokem
By the middle of the Great Depression, the Knott family had been on their land for a decade and a half. They'd built a successful berry business and chicken dinner restaurant. Over the next five years, the restaurant continued to grow, but the berry farming was slowly replaced with diversions to entertain the guests waiting in line for dinner. These were the first attractions of the emerging Kn...
What if Disney built the original Epcot plans?
zhlédnutí 7KPřed rokem
In 1966, just weeks before his death, Walt Disney filmed a special preview of the plans for his "Florida Project". This was the world's introduction to the Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow, or E.P.C.o.T. Unfortunately, with Walt's passing, most of these plans remained forever in the realm of imagination and dreams. Like many others, we wondered what the original E.P.C.o.T. plans wou...
The History of Knott's Berry Farm - "Berries"
zhlédnutí 2,4KPřed rokem
The Knott family didn't arrive on the land that would become the Knott's Berry Farm theme park until 1920. But the story of their park, and how it came to be, is inextricably tied to the land on which it was built. In this second episode exploring the park's history, we explore the legacy of Knott's as an actual berry farm - including the story that made Knott's famous: the discovery of the boy...
The History of Knott's Berry Farm - "Land"
zhlédnutí 5KPřed rokem
The History of Knott's Berry Farm - "Land"
The History of Disneyland - Black Sunday (Opening Day)
zhlédnutí 845Před rokem
The History of Disneyland - Black Sunday (Opening Day)
The Evolution of Roller Coaster Block Brakes
zhlédnutí 415Před rokem
The Evolution of Roller Coaster Block Brakes
The History of Disneyland - Our Latest and Greatest Dream
zhlédnutí 579Před rokem
The History of Disneyland - Our Latest and Greatest Dream
The History of Disneyland - Walt Disney's "Disneyland"
zhlédnutí 869Před rokem
The History of Disneyland - Walt Disney's "Disneyland"
Are video games the future of theme parks?
zhlédnutí 324Před rokem
Are video games the future of theme parks?
The History of Disneyland - Imagineers Assemble!
zhlédnutí 1,2KPřed rokem
The History of Disneyland - Imagineers Assemble!
What will Disney do with the Carousel of Progress?
zhlédnutí 37KPřed rokem
What will Disney do with the Carousel of Progress?
The History of Disneyland - in his own little world, pt. 2
zhlédnutí 1,8KPřed rokem
The History of Disneyland - in his own little world, pt. 2
The History of Disneyland - in his own little world, pt. 1
zhlédnutí 1,5KPřed rokem
The History of Disneyland - in his own little world, pt. 1
Cool how both Walts were friends ❤
Love stuff like this #DisneyDiva
#DisneyDiva
This looks just like the plans they have for fortnite
Yes! The series continues!!
Disney was one of the original contenders in the sale of Knott's. They had eyes on turning the Farm into Disney America, the park that was planned for Manassass, VA. They would have used Independence Hall as the park's entrance. The Knott family felt Disney would change the park too much and that Cedar Fair would keep its legacy. The family was wrong. Knott's has slid into disrepair over the past few years; several ride closures, construction delays, and lack of cleanliness. I am hoping with the new merger between Six Flags and Cedar Fair that the park will be sold (to United Parks and Resorts, e.g. SeaWorld/Busch Gardens) or that the sale of others in the combined chain brings in the revenue to bring Knott's back to it's glory. If I could design the next phase of Knotts, I would redo the park entrance. The area to the left of the entrance with the very old rest rooms is a very conjested area and needs a redesign. With Ghost Roder as popular as it is, the park could benefit from another similar ride. Maybe a Giga, mabye not. I think an RMC similar to Zadra (a ground up coaster, not a conversion) would give guests more of what they like. Push the warehouses to the edge of Crescent Ave (a noise buffer) and expand the park's footprint into the aear made by moving the warehouses.
There were 6 original Wind Seekers: Carowinds, Cedar Point, Kings Islands, Kings Dominion and Canada's Wonderland. Knott's was the only version painted differently than the other 5 due to placement in Fiesta Village.
What ya didn’t say though was that The Haunted Shack was basically going to be condemned. When they removed the three thick cables help holding it in place it fell upon itself. Plus it wasn’t ADA friendly. The Sky Jump was going to take what I’ve heard a million dollars a parachute to fix a problem with the computer system and such so just too expensive to do that. Things that Cedar Fair wasn’t responsible for. Other stuff though yes they were
Absolutely. I don't necessarily fault CF for not wanting to spend what it would've cost to renovate and restore those attractions. In the case of trying to tell the story of this period in the park's history, it was more about trying to convey how locals and longtime fans perceived these events as the new management not caring about the park's history. It's like them donating the historic materials to the OCA. I fully understand from both a business and practical side why they did that, I appreciate that it means those items are publicly available, and these videos directly benefitted from it. I would never want them But I also see where some fans viewed it as a company located 2,300 miles away just dumping off the park's history on locals to maintain, especially when you count all the other early decisions that ignored the park's history. Taken individually, many of those decisions make sense. Collectively, it wasn't great optics for a new company dealing with a customer base that had been visiting the park for literal generations.
@@ThemeParchive well I know when I worked there lots of people thought cedar fair was the wrong move but I knew if it didn’t happen Knotts would have eventually shut down. I can remember days where only 1000 people were in the park. But I do miss working there. If I got paid what I do at dland there at Knotts I wouldn’t have left lol.
Guys we're watching this video and it's great. Hit that like button!!
This was so interesting. It appears that the purchase by Cedar Fair not only saved Knotts but also almost destroyed it. The theme parks had no choice but to create changes after Disney and Universal entered the picture. But I'm excited to see what happened after Cedar Fair . Please please let us hear the continuing story as only you can tell it!!!!
Cedar Fair still owns the park... sort of. They merged with Six Flags and adopted that branding going forward. But Matt Ouimet, who we talk about taking over as CEO at the end of the video, only left the company in September of last year. So the next (final) video will mostly be about Ouimet's time as CEO of Cedar Fair, and how the company's handling of Knott's changed under his management (spoilers, but you can guess from his background how it went).
Keep going keep going keepgoing i grew up in orange county born in 85 u hit perfect on all my childhood memories i love lovelove your videos
EPCOT was a front... Walt built a Stanford Torus!
I want Horizons and Delta Dreamflight back. Heck, if I were able to access a time machine, I would go back 1994 and visit Tomorrowland and EPCOT Center. I miss the "view of the future" from the perspective of the early to mid 1990s. They changed "The future we could have" to "The future that never was."
That was very informative, but it also makes the ghosts of ghost town seem a little more alive
I for one would love to play a city simulation game based of the original E.P.C.O.T. concept and I bet a lot of other folks would feel the same.
Looks too auto dependent
To be fair to the designers, all we have are early concepts that didn't get much revision after Walt passed, but the concept was definitely more car-dependent than a lot of people imagine. Walt talks in the Florida Project film about residents only needing cars to travel outside of town, but I have a suspicion a lot of people in the "petal" suburbs would've used cars instead of dealing with tourists and city center foot traffic.
I love how Knott's hired former Disney Imagineers/legends Rolly Crump, Eddie Sotto and Bob Gurr to design some of their most themed rides (Crump - Bear-y Tales, Sotto - Soap Box Racers, and Gurr - KOD after Bud Hurlbut had retired.
The crossover of talent between Disney and Knott's, especially people who lived and worked in the Orange County area, is pretty significant. I think some locals like to imagine a rivalry between Knott's and "the park up the road", but behind the scenes, there's a ton of mutual respect. Check out artist Sam Carter. He does work for both companies, and his Knott's stuff in particular is very good.
Amazing documentary! Thank you!
I was born in '92... So I'm no boomer etc lol... But it does seem when women go to work, the whole world suffers more exponentially
It seems the teenagers of the 1960s were the begining of the end of normal America... What a terrible cultural revolution ... Tbh my own mom was of that very generation and she was seriously messed up in almost every way ... The women of that era are Karen witches that think they own the world and their number knew goal in life is to emasculate every man they come into contact with. Lol
Perhaps the best thing to do is to add a few more rooms. Because I think the message of the original carousel of progress was the transformation from an agrarian society where everything was done using human or animal power to an industrialized society. I think the intention was to remind us how much easier our life is now compared to a few generations ago.. To start with the dawn of the computer age and the Internet, is like reading a book starting at the halfway point.
I love this, soo, soo very much. Thank you for doing these videos on Knotts Berry Farm and it's family. These videos encapsulates my love and affinity for EVERYTHING knott's related. I love the can do American spirit the family had. I along with Escape Designs on CZcams made a giga-coaster concept that heavily pays homage to the rich history of Knotts, as well as it's continued efforts to have impactful & unique attractions. Give it a look, I think you're gonna like it. CZcams channel Escape Designs Video Knotts giga-coaster concept and park improvements proposal. Its a 23 min video, with the most detailed designs you've Probably have ever seen for Knotts. Lmk what you thought!
0:28 that didn’t last forever, I guess (because KBF has Passes, which you now need to go into the park)
It’s kinda nice to see the Knott’s Berry Farm amusement park change over time in this video, I’ve seen a few of Knott’s lands change in a few ways, like how the ride Knott’s Beary Tales: Return to the Fair was a retrofit for the ocean themed ride, and seeing the new pizza place just across the street from the ride, and seeing the fiesta village change too.
I’ve always liked Knotts over Disneyland since I was a kid. I’ve said to a couple of my friends that Knotts could expand over to the east parking lot and it wouldn’t be hard, costly probably. They could take down a couple storage buildings that are south of Ghostrider, build a wide “bridge” that would go over Grand Ave, the preferred lot, Beach Blvd, and drop back down into where Soak City would be demolish for a park extension. If the bridge is wide enough, they could build shops or whatever on top of it to make guest transition over to the new “land” nice and it could model after the Independence Hall theme. Knotts wouldn’t lose the preferred parking lot and the only oddity would be how guest traverse from both sides of the park. But if designed well, this would work and give Knotts ample opportunity for future expansion and then turn part or some of their lots into parking structures to gain back parking spaces lost. This would be something similar to what Disneyland is doing for Disney Forward, but a little bigger.
There were plans to do something like this in the '90's, designed by the head of Knott's design department, Robin Hall. But the company struggled to get financing for it and other projects of the era. With Cedar Fair (now Six Flags) in charge, it seems that kind of investment would be more likely, but I don't see them getting rid of the water park. Many of the parks in the chain have an adjacent water park, and they tend to be surprisingly profitable.
Very well done. My mom worked in the music hall for a time during the 80's.
Best documentary and most complete I’ve ever seen on WD! Great storytelling skills! Can’t wait to see what you do next…. Thanks! 🙏
Sorry, I was distracted listening to the video. Did you make this model? Is it a theme park sim or something?
He recreated the idea in city skylines
Very well made videos. I have gone through many of these Knott videos tonight. Very impressed. Thank you.
So fascinating story 😘… thank you 🙏💕🙏
Great true story 👍!….I love 💕 Knotts.
Thanks for covering the history of the Bear-y Tales ride! You'd be surprised at how much of the Bear-y Tales ride is still around. That and I have the Pteradon that sat atop the Gazebo building.
Thank you for keeping the ride's memory alive. Your videos made giving the ride the time it deserved much easier in this format. I'm definitely jealous of that Pteradon. What a cool piece of theme park history to own.
I actually have a counterpoint that I don’t think another park was ever truly intended, with the idea that wdw would just continually get better and better. Kind of like old Disneyland.
Definitely. There were no plans or even mentions of a second Florida park in the original Epcot city plans. There were mentions of other attractions, like the swamp boat ride near where today's Coronado Springs Resort sits, but nothing about a second gate. That said, we mention it in the episode more to highlight a concern with the original city design. Walt said Florida would solve the biggest problem with Disneyland: space. The modern company (after Walt's death) would almost certainly want to add more parks, like they added DCA in Disneyland. But given the way the Epcot city was laid out, adding a second gate would've presented a significant infrastructure hurdle regardless of where they put it on the property.
My head hurts when I think about Windjammer. Yuck.
I liked the Now is the Time version keep it open.
Very great video. However, I have a question. Since you are not counting shows that don't have seating does this mean that luminous, Disneyland's Fantasmic, and DCA's World of Color Don't count as attractions? Because without a doubt they are essential parts of ones at these parks.
Correct, those kinds of nighttime shows were not counted. Part of the reason is that some parks only run those shows seasonally, so it was easier to exclude them all rather than decide on a case by case basis what should or shouldn't count. Also, those shows use existing park infrastructure, whereas the kinds of shows we counted use their own infrastructure. To that end, Fantasmic! at Disneyland doesn't count, because it's performed and viewed along the Rivers of America, but Fantasmic! at Disney's Hollywood Studios in Orlando would count, because it has its own dedicated amphitheater. In the same way, street performers weren't counted. Again, some parks have them daily; others seasonally. Sometimes even within a single park, street performers and character meet-ups can vary day to day. So counting these kinds of things wasn't feasible. To you point though, these kinds of shows and street performers are very much an essential part of the park experience. These attractions per acre calculations were meant to represent a generalized idea of how space is utilized in parks, and not represent any "real" endorsement or criticism of a particular park.
I love Montezooma's Revenge! I grew up going to Knotts since my family could afford it more than Disneyland since we didn't have much money, so I have alot of memories of going and running around ending the day with a funnel cake or a trip to the chicken restaurant
Same here, my kid love Knott’s, and I’m sure they will eventually take their children in the future.
Thank you so much for your videos. I love Knotts so so much.
Loved this. I grew up with the park almost in my back yard.
👍👍👍
I was so excited to get the notification for this video. As usual it is awesome with such good content! Please keep them coming!!!
All your Knott's videos have been brilliantly researched and produced. Thanks
Glad this one kept up the quality. This particular time period was hard because for some reason there’s just not as much documentation.
Planning to do one on the cedar fair years (1997 - present)
That’s actually going to be two videos for our series, since there’s actually a good bit of changes to cover. That, and for “story” reasons, it felt more interesting to talk about it in terms of the Farm during the Kinzel era and Ouimet/Zimmerman era.
Thank you for another great video! It is great to hear about the transformation of this park. I do wish that the Airfield theming was preserved while making park improvements. The Boardwalk just seems more like any other Cedar Fair or Six Flags Park. Perhaps we can get a new version of the Wacky Soap Box Racers.
With all respect to Robin Hall and the design team that worked on it, I agree. Boardwalk just didn’t feel like it fit with the rest of the park. Its connection to California history feels tenuous at best. I do think it’s improved since it first opened, with Xcelerator and HangTime giving the 50’s-60’s SoCal cars and surfing themes. If they came through with an update like they just did to Fiesta Village and really leaned into that midcentury Southern California teen culture vibe, it could fix a lot of the issues I have with the area. But it is a shame how little of the Airfield stuff has survived. And given what they’ve done with bringing back Beary Tales (spoilers for the final episode of the series), it’s entirely possible we’ll see a new, better version of WSBR in the future. 🤞
@@ThemeParchive As you had previously pointed out - not all attractions were as well received as others. Walter Knott had his arena and Marion had her Gypsy Camp. (Walt Disney had his circus) So sometimes attractions do fail to take root. Theme Parks are not a perfect science. But this park has some great sightlines.
Thanks for doing these videos. I grew up with Knotts Berry farm. They bring back so many memories! I use to work at Knotts from 87-94. I watched most of the transformations you showed in this video happen in person. I wish I could get on the Sky jump again and the XK1. I use to operate the old rides in Fiesta village. Wow so many memories! Keep these videos coming
That’s so cool! It was definitely an interesting time for the Farm. That means you also got to see Mystery Lodge in its prime! I’m still hoping they’ll bring it back, though it’s hard to say what’ll happen. Sky Jump looks like such a fun ride. A lawyer’s nightmare, so I understand why they got rid of it. But I am a bit disappointed I’ll never get to ride it.
@@ThemeParchive, I took my kids back to Knott’s a few years back and was absolutely disgusted that they took out the Mystery Lodge. Sky jump was knarly. I remember crouching down and holding on to one of the bars on the cage as a kid. It was terrifying, and loved it. They could easily put a new mystery lodge in the park and completely redo the gold panning area. They stuck it back in the same area, but it needs to look and feel like it used to.
Welcome back!
Thanks!
What a fantastic concept! I been a fan of Walt Disney and Disneyland for over fifty years. I just watched his film and you’re video, and it all sounds very exciting, but because a lot of the transportation is publc what happens if a monorail breaks down, how do people get around? Just curious thanks 😊
Most people living out in the "suburbs" section of the city would've owned cars, so they would've probably used those. But since the idea was that cars wouldn't be needed, and the people living in the apartments in the city center would've been younger and poorer, it's hard to say what solutions they would have in cases of monorails closing for maintenance. The plans were in such an early stage when Walt died that a lot of these kinds of problems were never considered or solved.
Where did you get all the reference photos of the original plans?
A lot of sites have reposted those images over the years. One of my personal favorites, which has not just a ton of image resources, but has a bunch of good writeups and stuff as well is www.the-original-epcot.com. Also, most of the video stuff in these two episodes came from the E.P.C.o.T. film produced by Disney a couple months before Walt's death.
Where did you find the more detailed closeup plan layout of EPCOT?
I thought large trucks going to the industrial park were meant to be on the lowest level road that goes through the city without any stop options. Because Epcot is meant to be a layers city
Ah wait never mind I think I see where the truck problem is. It’s outside of the city. Although I though the truck road broke off outside of the city into it’s own mini highway?
Yeah, so the idea was that trucks (coming from Interstate 4 or U.S. 192) would be traveling north into the property. That means most of the truck traffic bound for the industrial park area would never even reach the city. Any trucks in through-traffic (ie, going to the themed resorts for deliveries) wouldn't stop in the city by taking the underground highway, as you stated. There were, however, trucks that would need to stop in the city center. These would mostly be deliveries of food for restaurants and merchandise for retail shops. From the animated plans in the "Florida Project" special, it appears these trucks would've had a special exit ramp from the highway under the city, and a large underground loading docks/parking lot. How feasible this would've been is definitely debatable, but that was what they were planning, at least early on. The way the game handles trucks means that there were a number of caveats necessary to make the city function. First, the nature of the game's industrial zoning and traffic means that we're seeing a lot of the delivery of retail merchandise, manufactured goods, and food come from the industrial park area, which wouldn't have been the case. Second, the game really doesn't like when heavy trucks (semis) can't deliver to retail locations, and it causes all kinds of grief. But since the plans were very explicit that no heavy trucks would enter the city streets, we kept true to that by banning all heavy vehicles from the city center and suburban zones. This means that all of those deliveries are conducted by smaller, van-sized vehicles, which creates its own traffic issues. This is a major reason why we make the point in both of these Epcot simulation videos about taking everything with a grain of salt. It's really cool to see something close to the original E.P.C.o.T. model brought to life, with people and traffic, but it's hard to separate the flaws in the design from the flaws in the game's way of handling the city's design.