Boutique Pilatus PC-12 Crashes north of Mesquite Airport | Engine Failure
Vložit
- čas přidán 22. 08. 2024
- Become a VIP member of VASAviation! -- / @vasaviation
Join VASAviation's Discord -- / discord
Twitter/Facebook/Instagram -- @VASAviation
Audio source: www.liveatc.net
![[REAL ATC] El Al B763 ENGINE FIRE + FUEL DUMPING @Toronto](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zilMT9M1yoM/mqdefault.jpg)
![[REAL ATC] Brickyard E170 BOTH ENGINES FAILED enroute | Diverts to Nashville!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bCkdZq4nfYE/mqdefault.jpg)
Hoping that our radar + the tips included helped you visualize the situation better.
The pilot suffered unreported injuries and was taken to hospital. He apparently los control of the aircraft on very short final runway 18. Wishing him the best.
Absolutely, outstanding graphics again
VASAviation - will you do the incident that happened at Hicks Airfield in Saginaw Texas
The pilot has unfortunately died in hospital less than 2 hours ago
@@yorkshire9998 Source?
@@yorkshire9998 That's weird. Talking about the PC 12? Local news said he was transported to local hospital w/ broken leg - no other major injuries. But.. Given if was local news... could be, if not completely wrong. Showed a EMS heli lifting off well after fire had been put out.
6,000 feet of usable Altitude, a drooping engine, and he's hunting and pecking for Airfields... declare the emergency, LAND!. The engine is talking to you.. don't ignore the signals.
I agree the PIC failed to land ASAP here.
YES. This guy should have landed at the airport he was next too. Mistake #2 was going for a 360. Slip the darn thing
100% agree, tough to say what you as a pilot would’ve done but it seems like the picking and choosing was the cause of not making any runway.
@@cruisemissle87 PIC may have been unfamiliar with the area, it sounds as though he was unfamiliar in that he doesn't spot Mesquite right in front of him.
@@SoarNC Depends on what altitude he had prior to the 360. He may have been high to the point where a slip was insufficient for his proximity to the field.
(I'm a CFI and ATC who teaches controllers about inflight emergencies. The views are my own, not official FAA) This proceeded through 4 phases. (1) Initial problem, set up for divert to F46. (2) Then it stabilized, started to divert to DFW. (3) Problem worsened, started divert to HQZ. (4) Detailed flight track showed too high at end, seems attempted quick 360 turn to lose altitude, ended up going from too high to too low, ended up in a field. Bottom line -- expect any partial engine failure to worsen, so the earlier you can set up a stable approach to a nearby suitable airport the better. With hindsight, an early commitment to land either at F46 (short runway) or HQZ (marginally farther away, much longer runway) would have been best. The "trick" is to have the foresight to see this early rather than wait for hindsight. Easier said than done. My prayers are with the injured pilot.
Thank you for your detailed explanation. I was wondering why he did a 360 close to the runway, at first i thought: out of control? So close and descending? But you gave this amateur guy, with an interest in aviation and its procedures, a big help.
Also hoping the pilot is doing ok
Thank you, Dean
Yeah...partial power loss situations can be more dangerous than total power loss at times.
Pilots seem overly optimistic power will/can return or be maintained, where as full power loss is dealt with at "face value"....
@@dmor6696 He was too high. He was at "short final" at over 1000 feet for a short runway. At first he said left base meaning he was going for 18 (the north to south direction of the runway), then he said 36 (the south to north direction) which would have been right base, then he said left base, he did a 360 or two to try to lose altitude and then made his his turns toward the runway too high and it appears he tried to do a too steep 360 right at the end of the runway preceding the crash to adjust his altitude. He didn't have a "stabilized" approach.
20/20 hindsight has me thinking "what, you've got two perfectly good runways in gliding distance and you head for DFW?"...but I'm not about to sit here and say I'd have done any differently from what he actually did. It's worth noting that engine failures in turboprop singles are extremely rare, and are usually caused by fueling issues. Yeah, a commitment to land at either F46 (just how long is that runway, anyway) or HQZ would be better, but when it's your butt in the left seat and something very unusual is happening, careful thinking goes out the window.
I do have to wonder why he did a 360 there, though, instead of dropping flaps and accepting a higher sink rate till you get over the fence. Yeah, a stabilized approach is nice, but when you've lost an engine, the aircraft belongs to the insurance company, anyway, and remember: a good landing is one you can walk away from, and a great landing is one where you get to use the airplane again.
Props to the controller here, calm, collected, accurate and clear.
Agreed! Did a wonderful job - everything the pilot asked for. Now if only he could've flown the plane for him.
Audio was edited. In the real version, they were in complete panic mode.
ATC is almost always calm. I have never heard a panicked controller, but can’t say it has never happened. Their assumption is that the pilots can fly the aircraft and make the best decision for their situation. ATC will provide information they deem important so the pilot is able to make the best decision, which doesn’t always happen.
I am not passing judgement with this comment as ai have not read the NTSB report
@@oscarb9139 I've heard unhelpful ATC even in dire situations.
@@paulveitch Example? I have been flying since 1983 and have yet to hear any ATC being less than helpful in an emergency.
The prop is there to keep the pilot cool.
When it stops in flight you'll see the pilot sweating every time.
S-turns are preferable to the 360. You never get the nose pointed too far from the runway.
You rapidly can get out of the S turns for straight in.
If you have lost too much altitude at 180 of the 360 you are pointed the wrong way and out of options.
F Huber Right?!? Or a slip. I hear the runway was pretty long. He likely had the space to land midfield.... bummer.
jgalexander510 yep, 5999 ft runway
@@jgalexander510 Slip is a good option, there have been many cases of airliners doing it in emergencies to loose altitute.
I also agree with F Huber that S turns are preferable to a 360
He probably should have just initially landed at Rockwall, but thats hindsight.
Rockwall is unsuitable for a PC-12, especially in an emergency. 3373 ft. x 45 ft. and obstacles on both ends is not what you want to deal with while dead stick. Not sure why he called for it initially. Mesquite is big and fairly open. He was high, but I would suggest that this reinforce that when deadstick, use S-Turns instead of 360s unless you're trying to loose a TON of altitude. There are also other ways to get drag so you can descend faster (gear, flaps). What really got him was the stick pusher on the PC-12. There is video of the accident (don't know if it's on CZcams, saw it via Facebook) and you can see the stick pusher activate clearly (the nose drops rapidly) and then he tries to pull out getting a second push just before disappearing from sight.
In the end - no fatalities, so thankful for that.
@@CAPFlyer A slightly difficult runway when your engine still works is better than a great runway when your engine is dead. A PC-12 needs under 2200 feet of runway. Easy to second guess the guy, but I like to think I'd have got it on the ground ASAP.
Chris Trott 3400ft is tons of runway for landing a PC-12. But I agree he really screwed himself doing 360s. When the controller initially suggested Mesquite he was about 3mi back at 5000ft, he should have gone straight for the field, if you drop gear and 40 flap on that airplane with power idle you can drop like a stone. As for the pusher, there is an override button that you simply hold down to prevent inadvertent activation. Of course all this stuff is coulda, shoulda, woulda in these tough situations. Any landing you walk away from is a good one.
@@cageordie 2200ft out of 3300ft in an emergency may seem a little tight, my guess is that the pilot though just that, and having some engine power at the time, he opted for a safer (and perhaps well known to him) runway. But I'm just speculating of course, as you said, it's easy to second guess the guy now. I'm just glad he made it out the crash.
Yeah I’ve landed there once and didn’t appreciate the obstacles and short runway
Wow. The change in the pilots voice as he realized things continued going worse and worse.
Props to the controller who directed him to Mesquite instead of Rockwell.
When he told the controller he was doing a 360 you can hear that the controller doesn't like that...like most of the posters on here.
@Michael Moretti No it wasn't. He declined Rockwell, then turned back for DFW. When problem worsened, his vectors had him headed away from Rockwell and closer to Mesquite (which the pilot didn't know; he's not a local GA, doesn't know the area). ATC told him it was Mesquite, PIC was a little surprised when he got it in sight, _"oh it that it, or am I aiming for somewhere else?"_
That ATC was on his game that day! What a pro.
As a commercial pilot I can attest that he was in a tough spot. But he was indecisive and made one to many mistakes, leading to landing short. There wasn’t any good reason that aircraft had to crash. His decision making during this emergency will become a case study for countless other pilots in the years to come.
Your armchair commentary will become a case study for years to come
FeNite8 Yeah ok 👍🏻
I`m currently working on my CPL/ATPL license. May I ask, for which carrier you work? Intel about that business always helps since I`m not in it yet.
Well put but I think I've already learned a lesson from this. Adm and using what's immediately available to bring the airplane down asap instead of attempting to land 30 miles away with an a/p less than a few miles from him.
Something's not right when the engine fails. Hopefully the NTSB gathers initial info for publication and then determine probable cause for the final report.
mike p, long time CFI/ATP here and I agree with you. We’ll get more details later I’m sure, but that is my initial assessment as well.
Great work by the controller. Calm, collected, concise, offered alternatives & clarified important info only when needed.
Wow, awesome controller! I love that he affermatively told him to go to Mesquite instead of back to Rockwell
Agree, I feel like the controller had a better grasp of the emergency than the pilot.
He also wondered why he wasn’t going for 36. That’s what the pilot should have done.. easy downwind that you can widen and narrow as necessary rather than a tight energy robbing turn to try and make 18.
When controllers ask or offer a different solution-consider carefully why they might be doing so. These non-pilots are often more aware of the big picture and glide profiles than you are.
I used to work for this company and flew this exact airplane multiple times. It is absolutely surreal to see it in torn apart and in flames. I will keep my opinion on this accident to myself, but I will say that I’m glad the loss of power happened somewhere relatively flat as opposed to over the mountains. Fly safe everyone.
Jordan Delara There’s not really any mountains near DFW.
YTNoob Boutique flys several routes out of Denver over the mountains and airplanes are routinely moved around the system to cover where needed. Not to mention all the repositioning flights that often cover long stretches of the US. Thanks for the geography lesson though
Doug Kirk glad to hear! I flew with lots of great pilots during my time there
Used to work for the company as well CEZ and have worked with and flown in that aircraft as well im sad to hear this happened and hope everyone flies safe!
Controller spoke quickly and clearly. Hyperspeed controllers, take note.
When I heard "gear down": my I'st thought - that's a bit too early, since he was without an engine already.
He was more worried about the hastle and logistics of being broke down at an unfamiliar airport
The plane has a very good design. The news show that the wing separated from the fuselage is burning while the main part of the plane is still in shape and free of fire. It’s a good advertisement for Pilatus.
He was right next to an airport with engine trouble in a single-engine and chose to keep going?
I've checked and the runway is just 1Km long and 14m wide. I reckon it should be enough for a P12, but probably the pilot opted for a larger runway looking for a safer landing... That's my guess.
Javier Caselli Actually he has zero airport info at that time. Pilots do not know all airports and with the emergency did not even asked. Thanks
ljfinger FAA will be like wth was he thinking
@@javiercaselli yes, that's enough for a PC12 when you have 100% control of your decent rate/angle. If he came in high/fast and landed halfway down the runway, the result would have been the exact same if you would have came in low/slow, just at the other end of the runway.
Ramon Cardona VFR sectional maps do show runways lengths. He likely had one.
I know he wanted to get to FBO at DFW, but when the engine is failing right next to Rockwall, land there and figure it out.
Yep! If it transpires to be nothing, you can always take off again.
Agreed.
And AOG maintenance is a thing , the worst that could happen is you get Uber to the nearest rental car place/airport and go home. At least you arrive alive.
Period.
"Nearest suitable field" comes to mind ... hint, that isn't DFW.
Years ago I was taking lessons at Charlotte/Monroe airport (KEQY). My employer's plant was about 400 yards from the beginning of runway 23. One day I got home from work (I lived 4 miles away) and turned on the news and saw video of a plane on fire in the grass about 20 feet from the plant. Turns out a Mooney with 3 bank executives on board took off from Charlotte Douglas, had engine problems and passed up landing at 3 airports close to them in order to attempt to land at Monroe as "The FBO was better there." Sadly, like this instance they didn't make it and all 3 perished in a post crash fire. I had to go back in to work to help manage the scene from the Company side and it was horrific. Don't pass up an opportunity to get on the ground because you think someplace farther away will do a better job fixing the airplane!
Keith, WISDOM!! Must have been a nightmare for all involved.
Better to land somewhere with no services and survive than to have post accident funeral services
Wow, that's crazy! I learned to fly out of Monroe and that's where I did my solo! I had no idea that this happened there! Side note, I mostly fly out of Concorde now.
@@bencopeland1581 I think it was in July of 2000. There was a Hawker Jet waiting to take off whose pilots saw the whole thing. If you were flying at Monroe, on the approach to RWY 23 after crossing over the quarry there is an industrial plant to your left just before the runway threshold. The Mooney was on the downwind for 23 then suddenly pitched up and banked left and stalled. The left wing hit first, in the plant parking lot, then the plane flipped hit its nose in MY parking spot, right wing hit the driveway then it stopped on its belly on fire. It missed the building by about 20 feet. In the building was about 30,000 lbs of flammable printing ink! Worst part is, talking to the shift supervisor who ran out of the building when he heard the crash is that the 3 people on board survived the crash, but not the fire.
@@keithcurtis6671 That's crazy that I have never heard the story before. I was able to find the report. N4780H is the tail #. Do you work at OMNOVA Solutions Inc?
lol aviation-safety.net/wikibase/45916
I’m a current student pilot right now, but from what I saw, poor ADM, he should’ve landed at the airport when he had the chance, you never take anything for granted even the smallest signs. Wishing him the best!!!
My instructor said the same - and no long finals engine out, and double the stall speed + wind on final if you have this long runway, and aim 1/3 down the runway. Oh, and keep the gear tucked till you have the field made. I flew from EKRK.
3NM from the nearest airfield, 6000' and you crash land?
I know when under stress it's not that easy...but it was preventable.
Glad to hear the pilot survived.
@Jack Cade Still more than enough if no stress: 4000' above ground, not 400.
Again, glad they've walked away🙏
Shoulda, coulda, bad engine, land, not fly when airport right under you.
Indeed. At the moment he said that he would like to get back on course towars DFW, i knew he was making a bad decision.
This pilot is a BAD pilot. He had engine problems and 30 miles out of KDFW compared to maybe 4 miles or so to F46 (Rockwell) and he went with the one the stupidest decisions you could do. It reminds me of that P-51 pilot who had engine trouble and the engine did kick back on and he still thought he could fly it and not declare an emergency. Terrible!
He had plenty of potential energy available yet he crashed..., had one airport close to him yet he thought it was a good idea going 30 miles away in a single engine... then when things got way more serious, despite he was high enough, decided to do a 360 away from the airport instead of over the airfield and set the airplane better for a power off landing.
Sure, I wasn't the one flying, I didn't endure the pressure, but there is one lesson learned here... we must practice decision making
Agree - came down to energy management at the end and he didn't manage it. Looked like he had plenty speed and altitude to make the runway.
He was nervous. One can hear the change in his voice as things worsened.
Completely agree, once the power stabilized at 86% I would've continued to Rockwall with that power and be able to make it even of it quit on final. It actually baffles me why he decided to go to Dallas 30miles away with an engine that's malfunctioning. Also at Mesquite he asked for 36 then when asked if he wanted 18 he said yes, did a 360 when he could've continued downwind for 36 with a short approach.
@@MAU04NC maybe figured there were better maintenance facilities there and longer runway. Maybe easier to get a ride home?
@@socomon69 it might be that but in the situation his decision was impaired because he wanted too much. One thing should've been the TOP priority, is to put the airplane down safely. Company can tow or bring mechanics to whatever airport he landed on. Unfortunately, not it's just scraped metal.
Engine problem. Head to the nearest airport immediately!
...and keep an eye peeled for clear flat spots "just in case."
I remember a Lufthansa having engine failure on one of its four engines, it was a funny conversation, he insisted on not declaring emergency but just wanted to tell the atc that he has an engine failure 🤣
found it czcams.com/video/EvVfLZO9CT4/video.html
Once you have a plan, stick with it regardless. This should have made a landing at Rockwall.
Not necessarily. If you think of a better option and can switch to it safely, then you can do that. Obviously "better" and "safely" are not precise terms.
Hey fam, yes the pilot could have done what he did differently, but he did what he thought best in the situation. Remember that he was in the flight deck, not you, and his decisions in that scenario were in his best interests at the time.
Lots of lessons to be learned here my fellow pilots. If you are having engine issues put it down. Period. Its better to put it down as at the closest airfield, once on the ground reevaluate the situation, and then go from there. I hope this pilot recovers and is back flying again. Its a mistake made so many times that has taken many lives. Your human nature tells you things will get better and when it seems to better to you convince yourself you can make it to your targeted destination. As we all know as pilots at 5000 feet you have little options. Rockwall isn't a long drive from DFW its a drive I've taken many times. Put her down on the ground and then work with the FBO. It could be something simple enough for a mechanic to fix onsite, or worse case scenario you get the plane to the nearest FBO as necessary. Its not worth risking your life over.
If you notice, the pilot have a great explanation as to what was happening to his aircraft. This information might have meant nothing to ATC (who usually just want fuel and SOB) but would be very valuable to the NTSB, had he not survived.
Regardless of his actions we are looking at this after the fact. This channel’s content, and it contributors in the comments, can provide great training for us pilots (and future pilots) to always be thinking the “what if” and place these incidents into our mental rolodex for when the in flight emergency occurs we can make sound decisions and survive.
He did not survive. He died in the hospital 2 hours later.
@@drfaustus72 darn. RIP.
@drfaustus72 where are you seeing that he died? I found a story but it’s for an accident that happened on takeoff
@@drfaustus72 Stop spreading misinformation.
The stick pusher saved his life. In the video he was doing everything possible to snap the thing upside down in the last few seconds. This is also a great example of why you DONT FLY AWAY FROM THE LANDING AREA WHEN YOU HAVE AN ENGINE OUT. Button hooks, S Turns, etc are the way to go so you can be constantly evaluating your energy state relative to the runway.
This is also a good example of why partial power loss is way more dangerous (and more common) than a complete catastrophic engine failure.
I was thinking the same, instead of a 360, why not just extend your base
Looks like the pusher hit twice in the video and the second time it rolled more than it usually does. He may have been holding pusher interupt the second time
Where is the video you guys are talking about?
Except that it didn't. Pilot died in the hospital according to reports.
@@drfaustus72 Ahh. That is too bad then. I hadn't heard that, and can't find any information of that now. Stick pusher bought him a few extra hours then if that is true.
:Loss of power. Land. Land Land.
I used to be a test pilot for a aircraft manufacturer and glided in our single engine aircraft 11 times. Always go for first place, if you can go for a better place while keeping the first place in you pocket ok, but never give up the first place. It worked for me. I had two dual engine failures as well which were manufacturing errors with the PT 6’s
His actions puzzle me, he had a chance to land and chose to go to a further airport.
Huge mistake. Shaky power = shaky thrust = shaky ability to stay airborne. Put it on the deck. He had plenty of time to do so. Lesson learned. He's lucky to have survived.
@@selftrue670 I was a flight instructor in Sanford Fl and i told all my students something not right land immediately
I think he may have had some medical issues and wasn't thinking clearly.
convenience over safety
@@youtubecreator950 You shouldn't just blame it on medical issues. Panic is a major factor here. It may come with overwhelming fear. His voice was also trembling which is a good indication that he was panicking.
I'm a paraglider pilot. We were always taught to be on regular terrain scan to look for places to land if we had the engine fail. My glide ratio is 7:1 so depending on altitude. On the glider, any odd engine or prop sound and you land immediately just to be safe. Hope the pilot get's in the air again soon.
I just had a similar engine emergency in West Virginia. I was flying with a commercial student under IFR and lost 200-300 RPM on the missed approach climb out and the engine started running very roughly, I told my student to start turning back towards the airport as I tried to trouble shoot the problem. Once I ran through the checklist items (FCMOST) I determined that it was either a magneto or spark plug issue, declared an emergency, took the flight controls and proceeded to land at the airport on the opposite runway. After I landed I confirmed that the spark plug on the #3 cylinder of the right mag had failed completely. It is important to be decisive when dealing with an emergency, second guessing yourself can cause you to lose all options you had at the beginning of the emergency.
General Rendar Was that the "impossible turn" we hear so much about?
Lightspeed: the speed with which you upload your videos.
For those who are just seeing this, there wasn't a loss of the engine. There was a loss of thrust caused by a mis-rigged throttle (PCL). This mis-rigging allowed the prop to go to feather. This accident immediately followed maintenance performed on the PCL. The first flight after maintenance is always a scary time for a pilot.
Amazing how calm I feel here in my chair whilst talking about someone else’s emergency :). Having landed at Rockwall many times, that airport could’ve actually been a disaster as well (huge power lines, narrow, short, huge hill in the middle). HQZ is a much better, longer, wider runway and better approach. But a big nice runway is no good if you’ve given up your altitude going away from it. I”m sorry for this guy. Emergencies can get the best of us. Very happy that he is physically okay.
Man those things are usually bullet proof, if there’s a prob get that thing on the ground pronto.
ATP/CFI/MEI, MIL IP/Evaluator
Excellent job by the controller. Easy to play Monday morning QB, but some good lessons to be learned. Pilot had his priorities messed up... 1 in a single engine a/c with any known or suspected engine issue you need to get turned to something useful. Get cleaned up if dirty,. Take care of any critical action items, determine if on profile. Then worry about ATC, this pilot focused on telling ATC way too many details. Tell them you have an engine issue and what your plan is. (I’d bet money this controller had no clue what NG was.) Stay within range of suitable airfields.... bubble hop, maybe.
Have been in this guys shoes... single engine failure in a combat zone. Have a plan before you ever take off! Indecision kills.
We had a CHIP DETECT in cruise once and we were directly overhead an airport we went there immediately even after realising that is probably just an indication.. I was taught during an emergency always stick to the original plan. Never change your mind unless the circumstances change dramatically.
Same here. My first intructor told me years ago "stick to your first thought. If you change your mind thinking you've come to a better solution, it will end up being a worse"
Well. Switching planes mid flight Would be a pretty good trick. 😉
@@RobertSzasz Hahahaha
The issue is the time you spend changing your mind and replanning is time you will never get back. If you decided to land then land of you decided to go to Airport A then go there because mentally you have prepared for it and briefed for it. And if you are in commercial operations and you have paying pax who will end up at the wrong place (who cares?), my DFO always says that is flight Operations problem not the PIC
I too pass up gas stations when I'm on E. Cause "I knOw mY cAr"
If your car runs out of fuel a)you don't have to replace it b) even if you did, it wouldn't cost more than 4 million dollars.
I don't know what running out of gas has to do with a failing engine, but ok.
This is why when a problem is happening and you're over an airport you land. This is Aviation 101. Worst mistake by this individual that will haunt him forever.
Hoping he did survive.
Over 24k views in ~8 hrs. Nice VASAviation!
I think the 13 thumbs down are in need of some hugs.
Generally, I like to listen to these presentations and read about crash circumstances to learn from others experiences. So, I’m not necessarily attempting to judge, but the moment he said he would head to DFW after initially choosing Rockwell, I said out loud to my computer NO, get that aircraft on the ground. Another interesting thing to me is the controller never asked him if he wanted to declare an emergency. I’ve only had one mild emergency and it’s from studying these situations that allowed me to make the correct decision and find the nearest airport and get down safely.
Something was clearly wrong and with the altitude he had and Rockwell I believe 3 miles, he easily could have descended in a controlled manner, set up for a good approach there and landed safely. Thanks for video.
Perhaps saving the landing gear until landing was assured?
My initial thoughts too. Seemed he dropped those gears too early, causing unnecessary drag. That might have been enough to make the runway, he was very close.
He said gear down but in the video it doesn’t appear he gets it down
@@f3nd13y The picture of the aircraft that belly flopped / pancaked, if you freeze the video and look at the impact area you can see pieces of gear and the gear doors. They were torn off when the plane hit the ground.
Maybe he thought he needed the drag to lose altitude and speed.
@@stewiepid4385 Which is extremely weird to me. The PC-12 is supposed to be capable of off airport landings and that looks to be a pretty clear and flat field.
85% N1 sounds like an input shaft failure. That’s the default N1 speed.
Thing is the engine continues to run, and once the prop is back to governing it sounds normal, but won’t produce anywhere near enough torque to maintain level flight.
As soon as you have something wonky with your engine-especially single engine-declare the emergency and land.
Rockwall may have had a short runway, but the PC12 could easily handle a carrier landing. Was made for back country operations. They can take a real beating.
The weather was no factor. A perfect day all pilots dream of.
I was on flightradar24 yesterday and i saw a tweet related to this that was on their tracker page. I hope the pilot of the Pilatus PC-12 is ok and I wish him a speedy recovery
He ripped off both wings...the impact must have been tremendous...wishing him a speedy recovery as well..
Engines and airframes seldom heal themselves
Just get it on the ground, check out engine, if all ok....proceed with caution....max a couple of hours delay. More so if in a single engine aircraft.....seems like a few missed opportunities....but I am glad he made it out ok
Juan Brown sent us here because “you have a open bar and dancing girls”. I subscribed too.
The problem was " engine failure " but the crash was a " pilot error " !
Talal S here is a lesson for you
They always try to blame the pilot remember that if you ever start flying. Even if you save the day they will try to blame it on the pilot.
Put Talal S in the left seat at 6k with a dying engine and watch him ace the landing. The best quarterback in NFL history was “Monday Quarterback.”
I saw the wreckage today when driving to and from work . I live just south of KHQZ
That's a shame. A crash that didn't have to happen. I imagine all of the flyers out there who've been in a similar situation and did not have the option of a close runway and altitude to spare.
Great job! Hate to Monday morning quarterback, but a small suggestion having just done a power out landing in a RG due to an engine failure. Do not pull the gear down until the runway is made and you have excess energy. A gear up in a field, or even gear up on the runway, is waaay better than coming in too short and having to make a last second decision. Leave the gear up until you’re crossing the fence, drop the gear at the last minute, and let the chips fall where they may. Energy to make a controlled landing on a flat surface leaving a scraped up underbelly is waaay better than breaking the wheels off in an off-field last second landing.
Good job pilot, you got the plane down safe. Just posting suggestions for others reading who may be in a similar circumstance.
It's really easy to say "he should have done this, should have done that," but if you were ever in that situation you might not have the clarity of mind to make a quick decision either. Continuation bias is a real thing. Put this story in your memory banks and maybe it'll help you make a quick decision one day.
It's very easy to make the right decision, which is to land immediately, after you recognize a problem with the engine. It's one thing when a severe emergency is thrown at you all at once, but this was a slow and gradual process, giving him more than enough time to plan accordingly. He made the wrong decision. The right decision would have been very easy to make with foresight.
Quite the opposite as pilots we know the decision to make its not an option its a rule of flying. You are told to put the plane down not just for your safety but those below you. In this case the pilot was thinking too far ahead. He was thinking it will be cheap and easier to get it to the FBO instead of Rockwall. The problem is you can't get to the FBO if you die. He needed to Aviate first. Aviate, Navigate, and Communicate is the pilots creed not to think about what will happen after I land and need to repair the plane. In this case there was an obvious issue with the plane, he was losing power, over a HIGHLY populated area, and in busy airspace. He needed to put that thing down ASAP and plan for repairs on the ground.
Exactly! People who Monday morning quarterback lose credibility with me immediately. Your analysis is spot on!
Yes, but. Mankind has been flying aircraft for more than 100 years. This professional pilot could and should have been aware of the best way to handle a faulty/failed engine, but he failed to do so. He is paid to fly the aircraft AND to deal with any difficulties he encounters whilst doing so.
@@gypsykingg Have you ever experienced an engine or systems failure? I'm not trying to argue with you, I genuinely want to know.
Step 1 (should've been the only step) if experiencing engine issues, land at Rockwall, and not another airport 30 miles away.
Step 2. When landing without power, keep the gear up until runway is made.
Yea I'm a baby, I would have landed Immediately probably. Especially single engine.
I dunno if you're a baby, but you wouldn't have ended up in a hospital like this guy.
As you should’ve. That’s the decision of a good pilot, not a baby.
This isn't an auto. I'm not a pilot, but coulda, shoulda, woulda, is correct in this case. There was NO emergency declared but he reported losing power. What kind of training tells you to keep flying? He was near an airport but chose NOT to land. Maybe he didn't perform a good pre-flight prior to take off. It was pure ignorance on his part and maybe he should be checked out before he can fly again.
Great ATC communication with the PC-12 pilot who made a bad decision to continue on to DFW when Rockwell was right there at the time of his engine out emergency landing . He had greatest opportunity to get it down from 6,000 feet to set up for landing during his work load he had as a single pilot and I'm glad the weather was VFR . Flying is fundamental and we need to start rehearsing our engine out procedures because it could happen to us like it did me and I walked away . Thank God that he survived
I know hindsight is 20/20, but the first airport was the best option. When you recognize you have an engine issue (especially if you only have one engine) you get on the ground as soon as possible and troubleshoot. Hope the pilot is ok.
Great controller. Very calm and informative.
The sole pilot onboard was taken to the hospital.
Can you try to mention if people onboard survived at the beginning of the video. I'm the kind of person who just doesn't want to listen to someone die if possible.
EDIT: I really enjoy your content.
some of us like the suspense.
@@peterwmdavis I know I added it there after reading it from the end. So others could see.
pretty sure he puts it in the starting notes if there aren't survivors
@@wjatube lol
@@peterwmdavis ... at the time of the accident.
It seems that generally if your engine stutters, you might want to gain altitude and expect the worst.
If it was me, I would have taken the first option at Rockwell and he seemed kind of picky on which runway to take at Mesquite as well. I understand that hindsight is 20/20 but really, you are in a single engine plane with compressors degraded. Taking the first out is the better choice. So glad to see the fuselage was pretty much intact. Hope the guy is okay.
KADS pilot here. Well. Easy to 2nd guess. And hope for the best. He or the controller made the right choice KHQZ. Rockwall is short and narrow. Power lines on the approach with a down hill runway. Bad choice of runway in something fast and heavy.
Probably should have waited to drop the gear till on short final at khqz. Could have made it. Having made an emergency landing myself, things are a lot harder to do, motor skills go to pot and your brain gets jammed up. When the adrenaline starts to take over. He did ok. At least he remembered to put the gear down
Best wishes and a speedy recovery. Mate
I don’t understand why he thought he could travel further with an engine losing power.
So I am based out of Rockwall (F46) the runway is plenty long enough to handle a pilatus and he made the mistake of trying to go to dfw. I also could see the smoke from the airport that day.
We had an issue like that, HH-60 had one engine go out, and the pilot wanted to return to the base. The guys in the back were screaming at the pilot to put it down and she finally did and right as it touched down, the other engine quit, too. It was nothing but water between the base and where she set it down.
bad call by the pilot to carry on when things "settled down". if there is only one engine, and it's acting up, get down ASAP. that could have been his last ever mistake. pleased he got out alive, and hopefully now recovered.
Ouch. All we can do now is take this video, store it in our memory banks, and recall it when our engine coughs mid-flight while we initially dismiss the idea of inconveniently landing at Rockwall because it doesn't have our favourite restaurant/car rental/hotel/fbo on the field. (and maybe consider a few lessons in a glider)
Must be hard being a controller and seeing the emergency aircraft your helping disappear off the radar screen (and more often than not the radio equipment gets destroyed on the underside of the aircraft in crashes ceasing all contact with the pilot). That gut wrenching feeling not knowing if the person you just spoke to a few seconds ago is ok or not.
Now imagine the Tower seeing it drop not on the radar but out the window.
Very well put together as usual VAS. Thank you!
Thank you!
Very very bad decision to forego an assured landing and try for one 30 nm away, and why put the gear down 3 miles away?? 360?? So many bad decisions.
Perhaps...but when you're in the left seat and things are breaking around you, time for careful thinking goes out the window. That's why pilots train intensively on emergency checklists from memory, for one thing. I'm not going to second-guess him. He's almost certainly doing that himself enough for all of us.
Juan Browne sent me here wish this incident turned out better. Glad the pilot survived.
When the engine starts to give trouble, get her down. Had SO many options to get her down but mistake after mistake with indecisive decisions leading to the crash short of runway.
Why turn away from field for 360? Why change airfields 2 times?
Rather be high and sideslip or S turn than turn away from safety.
And when you make the decision for an airfield with engine trouble, GET THERE. Mechanics can always travel out and asses the problem. When your plane is Written off, Mechanics cant do much for you then.
the thing with engine troubles is the same as with deer near roadsides: There's isn't just one deer, that's calmly gonna keep standing besides the road. It's gonna be a herd running into the road as soon as you starting to relax thinking how calm the deer stood there for the entire time you were approaching it.
I love the Kingair but have to admit that the PC-12 can do just about everything a little bit better for a turboprop aircraft...
except fly with an engine out.
Glad he survived. Less talking on the radio and more flying the airplane. The controlled doesn’t not need to know your Engine parameters, just that your having a problem and where do you want to go.
Any hypothesis of what caused the engine failure? The PT6 are so reliable...
Nearly every failure of a PT-6 has been attributed to magnetized bearings from a lightning strike or a fuel control unit (not manufactured by Pratt, BTW). With a Py bleed leak in the fuel control unit you'll get an NG roll back. There is an MOR lever (however we joke it's there for looks as NO NG roll back has been successfully recovered with one), but the pilot never says he was trying to use it. Every PT-6A 67B or P that has rolled back has done so after a power reduction for some reason. So my summation is that as they leveled off and reduced power, they has the beginning of an FCU failure.
@@pc12drvr Thank you very much
; makes sense; I fly a 66 (on a TBM) so personally very interested...
85% N1 is what the FCU defaults to with an input shaft failure.
I’m not sure how it works on the PC-12 or other single engine turboprops with the extra fuel lever (I’ve only ever been blessed with _two_ PT6s), but 85% is more than enough to run all your accessories and I believe even your prop up to governed RPM but won’t produce anywhere near enough torque to keep you airborne.
Perhaps he saw the N1 but after his prop caught up he was able to maintain altitude for a while on momentum.
Student pilot here. Through my years as a kid driving junk cars, it would seem when I was on the freeway and my car started running poorly I would move into the slow lane so that when it quit I wouldn't be stuck in the island. Seems like if I'm in a airplane it would almost be natural that at the first sign of an engine problem one would fly directly to the nearest airport?
For all those saying “he should have just landed when he first noticed trouble” thats hindsight.
What happened was he saw he had trouble and made the call for closest. Then thought he had it back under control and so decided to head to a bigger airport which prob had services like fire and medical etc. And possibility of fixing whatever the problem was. Bottom line he decided in that split second to take the better bigger airport. Then things escalated further and he knew he was in trouble. So he again went for nearest place to land and got it down in a survivable crash.
All things considered id prob have just landed too but we were not there. We dont know and will never know what was happening.
When he made the secondary call for bigger airport he prob thought he had a chance of getting there ok. Turns out he didnt. Thats hindsight!
Never pass up a airport if you’ve got one, just land it.
Unrelated to the accident...at the beginning we have Thrust 202, 252 and 282 all at the same time. ATC has to LOVE that.
Thank you Victor. That was a fast turnaround.
I am with ThrustFlight. We were supposed to go up in the air and I was supposed to drop my instructor off at mesquite and fly my solo cross country to Tyler. We weren’t in the air when this happened, but the thrust callsigns are planes from my school. Mesquite closed and I was forced to fly to Terrell not even 30 minutes later. Thrust 252, my roommate, was in the air when this happened
Today I just flew and landed at mesquite, we saw the plane crash. It remains there for further investigation into the cause of the crash. I had seen that same Pilatus at our airport, KADS, just last month, I was curious about the plane hence why I remember it
As one who has had a partial power loss (able to double or triple my glide ratio), I can't picture going anywhere but the closest useable runway.
It never ceases to amaze me, the condescending comments by self appointed master aviators. They spout their corrections and what the pilot "should" have done. The implication is IF the pilot had done as told here in comments, then he may have eventually had the skill and expertise, as the advisor on here. It's easy to scold and offer wisdom and insight, from a keyboard. None of us were in that seat, at that time, under THOSE conditions. The ATC here offered a good set of viewpoints, without being critical. Much respect to him. I offer the very best wishes and prayers to this pilot, for a speedy recovery and safe skies in the future.
Thanks Randy for the comment. ATC is in a unique position during inflight emergencies, since unlike everyone else who can armchair quarterback the next day, ATC is in a different seat at the same time under similar conditions. We have to assess what is going on with very limited information, and so that's why I'm trying to teach controllers to think in terms of phases of emergencies so we can get ahead of the problem rather than react. Again, easier said than done.
Here let me list my procedures I followed rather then declare an emergency and land. He doesn't care what you've done. This is why you don't fly on rookie airlines
I'm glad he survived. In single engine planes, never pass up a good runway when you have engine trouble. Never. T-38 IP, King Air IP, C-130 AC. 2,500 hrs/1,500 as IP.
I actually watched this unfold on FlightAware. The radar stopped responding just short of the airport as the aircraft was losing altitude fast. I had a sick gut feeling, but thought oh man it just can’t be. 🥺
This is why you should practice an engine out landing. It should be as natural as breathing. I won't be critical of this pilot, I wasn't in the right seat watching him, so I shouldn't guess as to what his workload or mental state was. That being said, crashing short of the runway, after approaching it too high, indicates a lack of energy management by the pilot. A skill that must be practiced and learned by doing engine out drills.
Oh wow, this happened right over my house
I was ENY 4151 taxiing to R35L behind N477SS, and it all looked normal to me. They departed 2 minutes in front of us, and it’s crazy to think I was one of the last ones to see that plane intact.
Keep in mind there is a big lake between Rockwall and Mesquite. That was a lot of flight time over water with a known engine problem. Hope he's better soon.
Am I the only one who noticed he switched from 36 to 18 ? Why would you change your mind and why would you switch to a tailwind? Dang man. Glad ur alive tho
He was on the approach end of 18, clearly lacked the altitude to make the pattern to 36. Even with the tailwind it was the best option.
That decision to make that 360 for no reason still has me scratching my head. He gave up a lot of altitude doing that. Just set up to the left base 18 and bring it in. Slip it if you need to lose the altitude.
But bottom line, it’s all Monday morning QBing, review it for lessons learned, but questioning the pilot in the moment doesn’t help anything.
I got this alert on Flight Radar 24
Me too
@@chrisfly777300ER I did as well
Sometime its good to not be so calm and start panicking a bit. Like people who just keep driving and run out of gas. A little nervous is good. Listen to your better judgement. 30 miles is a long way!
Even simulated engine outs in a fast plane are stressful. An actual engine out obviously more so. He may have been flying with partial power, then lost all power on short final and didn't have enough energy left to make the airport. Or already lost full power, and got too slow in the turns to line up for 18. Agree that ATC did a great job in giving him options and giving him clear shots to whatever he wanted. Also agree that landing at first sign of engine trouble would have been better. But he was in a tough spot.
Have not flown a turboprop, but with anything driving a propeller, if you don’t like the sound the motor is making, not a bad idea to land. Not sure why he believed an engine that sounded bad would suddenly ‘improve’. Use your senses folks.