SAILBOAT BATTERY DISASTER: We KILLED Our AGMs! I Ep. 70
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- čas přidán 24. 06. 2023
- In this episode, after a grand total of one week in the Truro River, we managed to kill our domestic battery bank… Leaving us effectively… dead in the water!
We were quite literally stuck up a creek without a paddle!
So, is this it for our AGM batteries?
Is it time to replace them for lithium batteries to prevent another sailboat battery disaster?
We kick off the episode, with something new and shiny for our dinghy! We have been wanting to go electric for some time now, and finally found a perfect solution.
Introducing, the Thrust Me Kicker, an Electric Outboard!
We walk you through some of the main features and take you on a maiden voyage with the outboard, along the beautiful Truro River.
We hope you enjoy this one as we once again get stuck into some boat work, as we ready ourselves to take the leap and leave the UK!
L & C x
Ps. Check out - www.thrustme.no/eu/kicker-eu
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Yes as a general rule, AGM's that drop below 12 vdc have been damaged. As your awareness has greatly increased and you are unplugged livaboards, you will quickly determine if the remaining capacity will be able to serve your needs.
Should you decide to replace them with newer battery technology, you will want to verify that all of your charging sources (solar, engine alternator, shore power battery charger) are capable of providing the charge profile required. On our 33 year old boat, the high current external regulator for our engine alternator only supports AGM so we are sticking with that type.
You may also want to set the audible low voltage alarm on your Victron battery monitor to alert you when you are approaching 50% capacity so you can take action.
Hope to see you in the Caribbean
Thanks so much for the very helpful comment🙏🏼☺️ We’ve been learning so much about batteries and our whole system, but there’s just way too much info online to even know where to begin!
Crazy how different life unplugged has been, we really weren’t totally prepared, or at least not as prepared as we thought we were!😅
Oh yes, we have now set the low voltage alarm! We didn’t know the monitor could do that until recently😂
Yes, fingers crossed we see you in the Caribbean soon🤞🏼🥹🤞🏼
All boat life is a huge learning curve especially when setting up for living off grid, so well done on solving the problem which will hopefully allow the AGM’s to keep you powered until you get a lithium house bank. Chances are you got away with the once off discharge below 50% and they will be ok. Delighted to see it didn't distract you too much from enjoying the BBQ.
As you know, Lead acid or AGM’s batteries can only be safely discharged to 50% (12.23v) and only bulk charge to 80%, then absorption charge which is much slower to 100%. Therefore, realistically a 400Ah AGM battery bank is only a 200Ah usable bank at best.
A 400Ah LifePo4 battery bank can safely be taken down to 10% charge and will bulk charge straight back to 100% - they are a game changer for off grid living.
Having several alternative means of charging is also very useful. E.g. solar, wind generator, high output alternator + small petrol generator.
Thanks so much for watching and for this super helpful comment🙌🏼 Crazy how much we’ve had to learn so quickly!
Definitely agree we need some other means of charging, we’re looking into a wind gen and have actually just got ourselves a generator too after this fiasco too😅
Don’t want to spoil the next episode, but think we’ll be looking at alternative battery options👀😬
@@SailingIndiana Great to watch your progress and see it come together for you both.
Yes, there is certainly a huge amount to learn as well I realised having bought LifePo4 cells from China and built a 1,200Ah bank + fitted 1,800watts of solar, wind generator and 160amp alternator onboard.
While building your own battery bank with LifePo4 cells is a far more economical way, its not without its pitfalls, especially when buying from China.😏It worked out really well for us but I consider myself lucky having researched suppliers to death.
If you install LifePo4 battery's you will possible need to upgrade your alternator with a programable regulator as they are like a sponge, talking as much charging power as thrown at them which could overheat and burn out a standard alternator.
Wind generators don't give you as much bang for your buck as solar and only the more expensive ones are reasonably silent but they do give you power during the dull and/or shorter days. The petrol generator is always the backup for when it all goes pear shaped!🥴
Fitting a boat out for off grid living is without doubt challenging but once you have installed the systems yourself you will understand how it works and able to troubleshoot problems and fix yourself when in remote locations.
While not cheap, I find the Victron stuff is great - it just works!
Hi Lauren and Chris I hope your batteries are ok to carry on, once you go down the forums Lithium rabbit holes you will be lost for a long time. I suggest you take the tape off the companion way hatch vents or you might not be here at all! Fair winds Ben
Haha, thanks Ben😅 Good spot with the taped hatch! We’ve taken the tape off now it’s summer… We had a very cold winter!
Yes the lithium forums are an endless maze of information that seems to be right one minute but wrong the next😬 We’ve got some research to do…!
Enjoyed your channel! Just Subscribed.I’m trying to convince my wife that a circumnavigation is a great retirement project and went so far as to even start a little channel (@NavalGazingatCampDavid) to sell her on the life style….desperate times and all that. Lol. Thanks again for the great content. I have a whoooole new appreciation for the time and care it takes to create these episodes!
A bring and braai 👍😎
We like the sound of that😅🙌🏼
Chris it is nice to see that you have difficulty speaking. Lauren love the Chucks. We have learned a couple of things about you two in this video: Lauren is a very loud cook, we don't want to anchor next to you because Lauren will NOT tell us off but she will be thinking it. The little outboard is really cool. Sorry about the batteries. Again you two are dealing with what others have done or not done. I have a background in Bio-Medical Engineering and I am constantly learning new things about off-grid systems and all the new technology that is constantly coming out.
You might be ok. The Victron BMV-712 monitor is showing SOC (State of charge) Take it with a pinch of salt as its measuring amps discharged against amps shown as your capacity and the percentage between the two values. You can only use 50% of your usable power but I have set up these before to only show usable amps, not total capacity of the house bank. Voltage will be much lower when the batteries are under load. Our 68amp starter drops to nearly 10v when we are preheating our plugs. Only way to check your batteries is to charge until full, remove all loads (take off terminal clamps) leave for few hrs or more.. test with meter. 12.8v is a full good battery. Oh and the Aux/Main isn't wired up wrong, some pepeple treat 'main' as their House and 'Aux' as their engine and visa versa. As long as you know which, you're good! Fingers crossed its not that bad.
❤😂DONE! Subscribed!
Thank yoooou🙌🏼😂🥰
Before I seen to the end. I guess 1 agm died and brought all down. Did that for me two years in a row. So I changed to lifepo4
Hopefully you’ve worked out by now but that’s not how the monitor works at all. The 100% is based on amps in and amps out and has nothing to do with voltage. Voltage is almost always based on your charging devices, any time the mppt is on voltage will be 13.something because the mppt makes it that and there’s no way to read the battery voltage at that time. You may have the bank capacity set wrong in the monitor but the issue was definitely not the completely separate battery voltage monitors.
Thank so much for watching!! Yes whilst editing it was funny to watch how little we knew then and how much we’ve had to learn since😅 It’s definitely not our strong suit, that’s for sure… but we really need to get to grips with this side of our boat systems, as this will no doubt be the first of maybe electrical issues we face🥹
@@SailingIndiana The important thing is you got it sorted and learned some new stuff. This year I learned to check engine mounts before they are loose (check your nuts if you haven't already)! You guys are doing great and hopefully will have a great summer down in the med
❤❤🥰🥰
🥰🙌🏼🥰
Love the photo bomb by Lauren at 17.04m.
Don't worry about the batteries, we have all been there. Just means you are both now members of the club.
We have just gone electric cooking having removed the gas grill and hob. Replaced with a Vango Sizzle Double hob and used the old gas gimbals so it still swings. The Vango is one of the few double hobs that will fit in the space of a 450mm wide gas cooker. With 600w of solar its been brilliant and a good match to our Remoska.
Out of interest how long have you had the AGM Batteries, and do you know how to look after them properly? A Good AGM Battery Bank with good 99.9% pure lead plates,Properly Sized and treated should last for about 20 to 30 years. If kept above an 80% state of charge, the 3500 charge Cycles flatlines and never drops, hence to get a nice safety margin the AGM Battery Bank on my next Sailboat will be 1200 ah, with 20% of that being 240 ah, that should give me up to 24 hours to start getting the Batteries up to full charge. I have been offered a free House Bank of Lifepo4 batteries for long term testing, by a pretty good Chinese Manufacturer, but tbh, actually useful information for getting the longest service Life out of Lifepo4 batteries is really thin on the ground. Confirmed is discharging them below 50% capacity loses recharging Cycles, Fast Charging does Damage them and needs to be kept between 0.1 and 0.2 C, and I have recently had it confirmed that Charging them over 85% Capacity shortens their service Life as well, just like for Lithium batteries in mobile phones. Frankly given the state of present technology, it is hard to see Lifepo4 Batteries having a service life of over 10 years at present, and that is if treated really well. Hence Next SailBoat Batteries will not be freebie Lifepo4, and I’m sticking with good quality AGM.By the time they are done, Far Better Battery Technology should be available. With 1,000 watts of Solar, plus a high Output inboard engine alternator, plus a Wind Generator, it shouldn’t be difficult to keep the batteries happy, I’ve already had good experience with heavy duty Agricultural Tractor batteries, normal Cheap Lead Acid Battery Bank and they were still good at over 15 years before temperatures below minus 45 degrees C killed them thanks to Weather forecasting Failure, and others have already achieved over 20 years with AGM, but treat them Badly due to believing the “Deep Discharge “ Lie, and you can be lucky to get three years out of them sadly. ☹️ Best Wishes. Bob.
There's a long list of questions and thoughts.
Batteries in parallel do work but when one goes wrong it pulls the others down.... So.. disconnect them from each other (in my view you should be able to do this by switching also I prefer fuses between batteries) and test each one.. REMEMBER TO SWITCH OFF SOLAR ETC BEFORE DISCONNECTION & connect batteries before solar etc.
Anyway AGM's like other batteries have their own advantage's & disadvantages..
Like any wet battery they can dry out but with AGM's it's not good (people have reweted them).
You can get away with low discharge but it does damage them.
What is seemingly never said about.. Just because you have 3 x 130Ah ...
What is the maximum draw (current) you can pull without exceeding the discharge rate? (very short bursts are possible but on long discharge it's a lot lower)
This might be 10% or 20% of the 130Ah ... So that could be 39Ah to 78Ah .. it might be higher, but for how long.. for the 390Ah set you have.
If you're batteries are new and fully charged (correctly) then you have about 2 hours at 78Ah to reach 60% DOD... Approx...
Are you charging them correctly with a good AGM charger? If you don't that will damage them.
You can't charge any deep cycle at a higher level than the manufacturer says.. So ... (at a guess) your 390Ah set at 20% charging current (I'll leave out the the different charge rates)
is 78A .. which is really for bulk charging.
There is also the memory effect of not correctly charging them..
etc... etc...
Circuit wise...
Are there any parasitic load's or losses..
For instance some inverters even though switched off at the box will still consume power and the amount varies by size of inverter.
More importantly... Is any piece of electrical equipment drawing too much current is it about to go wrong?
Are fuses right size?
I have 2 inverters... an 800w 1kw peak and a 350w peak 500w which I use for phone, laptop radio etc.. the thing to be aware of is overloading it.. apart from adding up the loads each time you plug something in (and unplug) the best thing would be to buy a watt meter and have that on the mains output.
On the subject of type of batteries...
At this moment the price of deep cycle lead acid is high.. nearly as much as lithium.
Starting battery price's are still similar to what they were.
An old school of thought is buying good starting batteries (ones with a 4 year guarantee) and be prepared to replace them each year... usually longer...
Some people buy 240Ah lorry batteries which also has advantages.
Do the maths...
The trick being don't discharge them too much and immediately charge them up...
Ideal if you are using the power when the solar & wind is changing.. as long as there is at least enough charging to cover what you are using.
Another advantage with starting batteries is they are designed to give high load for short periods of time or starting an engine.. So... powering an inverter becomes less problematic.
I have LED digital voltmeters on each battery set.
(Much better than clicking a switch)
They are fairly cheap.. the ones I have have a blue colour and the screen is 1" x 2" approx.. you can also buy them in packs of 5 or 10 ..
I leave them on all the time and they light the cabin a little.
On the subject of Lithium...
There are people using Lead Acid and Lithium combined.. but I'm not going into detail here.. you need to know what you are doing to set it all up.
Various friends have bought Lithium from Fogstar Batteries..
The ones with Bluetooth and adjust the settings.. some set them at 80%
Battery location is another subject.. keep the batteries clean and dry and cool.. so not in most engine bays!
Don't bash them around.. a big problem when ordering on line!
Something I have.. is two separate battery packs for powering everything... So.. I have a backup..
New batteries on one side and the older on the other.
I also have a third set, which are older deep cycle for the big inverter and a dumpload system.
You really need to become proficient with the whole electrical system.
Many videos ago.. I did comment.. you had a tube hanging from the top of your fuel tank... did you put a support in.
17:03 😻
Regards from
Bella 🐈 & Mark..
Wow thank you so much Mark (& Bella🐈☺️)! So much detail and knowledge, we really appreciate you sharing this with us!
There seems to be so much information out there that we quickly get overwhelmed when trying to research what the right thing to do is… Especially when we haven’t tackled any boat electrics up until this point. But we have learnt a lot since this happened.
We’re very lucky to have the help of Guy, who has taught us a lot already. That and very helpful comments like this are definitely steering us in the right direction🙏🏼
Oh maybe we missed the comment about the fuel tank hose🤔 Is it the one that runs under the aft bed, to the primary fuel filter? We still need to support that😬
@@mySeaPrince_ Ah yes we think we know the one you mean! The plastic pipes are from the eberspatcher. Will take a look tomorrow and see if it’s the one we’re thinking of ☺️
@@SailingIndiana
Did you see my comment on last week's episode about fuel cans?
Btw when you read a comment (assuming its nice) remember to at least ❤️ it.. Comment activity is noted by YT as it's audience interaction.. second-ish to people actually watching all the way through. Likes are lower on the list and mean more if done towards the end of the video.
I'll be doing some electrical videos soon.. part will be based and expanded on what I wrote earlier.
Yes we went the hybrid lead-acid and LifePO4 way. Works for us.
@@pete9501
Could you give any details on how you connected them.. after balancing?
I use EFB lead acid batteries.
Seriously from a Safety perspective, ditch the battery powered outboard idea. Fine if you can guarantee windless calm as a millpond conditions for getting to shore and back, but Nobody can do that can they ? Say you have 40 minutes of propulsion power in those conditions pootling along at 3 to 4 knots, then out of the blue Conditions change and to make progress in now rough water, you have to up power needs to flat out - how long do you think you will still have battery power available. I say this as having had Conditions change dramatically in the Med with a very strong Offshore Wind, and wave Conditions that ad, y friend was throwing up over the side. We were lucky, a passing speedboat saw we were in trouble and towed us in. I never want to be in that situation ever again. My solution for my 10 ft inflatable Tender , is a Tohatsu / Mercury 6 horsepower four stroke outboard why ? Throttle wide open, it can do just over 10 miles on one litre of petrol, but I’ll have a 25 litre external fuel tank. When full, at full throttle that means I have about a 250 mile Range ! Pootling along, maybe double that distance. Think I’ll be able to get to shore and back safely ? I do, and if and when Batteries are available that can store that level of energy density, I’ll change my mind. Until then, I’ll keep in mind that Nature doesn’t appear to be very keen on taking prisoners Bob. 🤔
Final comment, get an electricians measuring meter, and bonus advice, make sure all wiring joints on a boat are with tinned wires. Try and stay alive. Bob.
The biggest problem I can see you with all this battery that everyone goes on about they do fail at least with petrol. If you keep it maintained they will go 99.9% of the time and the biggest problem is all the tree huggers and greenies. Thanks batteries are the way to go but you are charging them with cold power solar panels which they had to dig out the ground, the materials etc etc don’t understand where this world is going like a bunch of Shape you cannot drive around Australia in an electric car unless you have a generator would you and how ridiculous is that in most places you go to the charge the car or vehicle is run by a diesel generator wake up world smell the roses
It is their house batteries that they have 'killed' not the dinghy battery, and I don't imagine that you would advocate having a petrol generator running the whole time they are at anchor.
If you live on a boat you have little choice but to rely on batteries for your power storage. However if they were to invest in lithium (LiFe Po4 for safety) batteries, and a 12v-12v Lithium charger, they would be able to use virtually the full storage potential of the batteries, keeping the AGM and current charger for the starter battery. Still expensive, especially if their MPPT controllers are for AGM only, but probably makes sense in long term, as lithium batteries last much longer. Anyway I shouldn't be spending their cash for them, as I am not a Patreon. 🤐