To me the difference was always thus: Chaos Magick is ruled by the mind - its a very analytical almost "scientific" approach to energy work. Eclectic Witchcraft is ruled by the heart - its a very intuition based approach, the theory behind it doesn't matter as long as the vibes are right.
For me when I read the thumbnail and the title I immediately thought of a difference. Eclectic Witchcraft is like me taking spells from Ancient Greece, charms from traditional witchcraft, chants from folk magick while Chaos Magick is like me using Ancient Greek element correspondences for a spell but then use Taoist element correspondences for another spell, then for a different spell I could use a psychological model etc. In shorter words 😂🤣 I would say that Chaos Magick is a psychological change of perspective to another. Could you do a video on the differences of Witchcraft and Magick? Because I personally think that they are the same thing. As you know I want to write a book but I don't want too much of my own opinion in it and this topic of Witchcraft and Magick being different is one of those topics that features my opinion and not fact.
Oh I actually agree with you! Witchcraft is definitely a type of magick for sure. The point that I was trying to make in the video is that it's not the ONLY type of magick... There's ceremonial magick, shamanism, eastern traditions of magick... All of which are very different from witchcraft. But it's all magick to me! 😊
Sp my understanding is chaos Magick is subject to interpretation of the individual and how they navigate and manifest within their own place in their universe. And pushing that boundary to what ever they feel calls to them to create in their craft.
This aspect of belief isnt spoken about a lot. That's something people should discuss more. The changing of beliefs is most probably work with the subconsciousnes. I like how you explained that being a chaos magician is actually knowing of the mechanism of magic, this is so far the most accurate description I have ever heard 👏👏❗
@@IvyTheOccultist A very interesting question is "What is belief? It's not talked about and some people say than faith and belief are two different things which I agree with. A lot of sources try to neglect belief and describe it as something weaker than faith which may be tru, but belief is still something we can use. If we want to know how to use it we must first define it. You are on to something very interesting and important and I intend to dive in it and come out with answers. I'm happy that I'm following your videos. Having fresh thought is very rare and valuable. Thank you 🙏
@@godsofwar1186 thank you so much for this. I agree that belief isn't talked about enough! I'm not sure if you're familiar with Sanhre the podcast host for "The Order of Chaos" but he invited me back on the channel for a second time. We plan to discuss this in greater detail soon. Thank you for the insightful and supportive comment! 🙏
That's very true about the paradigm shifting. I was doing that before I even knew about chaos magic, when I was just experimenting with witchcraft. I've had all these doubts about my magic working and about spitits, so I narurally began to find other ways of thinking about magic. Psychedelics allowed me to do that more effeciently, though I wouldn't recommend them to everyone.
Currently binge watching your videos on Chaos magick and I think you've described what I have done for most of my life. It took one person to tell me I was wrong, and being caught up in mundane 9 to 5, for me to stop doing chaos. Now I find myself almost coming back home into it with a whole new perspective.
I’m so glad I chanced upon your channel. All these while, I’ve just been doing magic my way in my most intuitive self. I’m basically on the paradigm of “I will it, I have it, I do it because I am it” so it’s very self belief and self manifest driven. I do work with deities and spirits and the way I perceive my relationship with them is just like how you described here. I don’t know what you call this method this entire time but today I found out in such an enlightening way from you. Thank you so much!
Nailed it!!! We are not capable of truly quantifying objective truth. I've felt this way for years and this chaos magic path defines what I've been going through to a T... This gives me so much clarity and validation thank you!
Perfect timing. I was just asking myself this question yesterday and I was wondering what your thoughts are as a chaos magic practitioner... and now I know. 😆 I am still a bit confused, but I'll get to my own definition sooner or later. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and keep the great work.
i have always known that i was a chaos magician, it's concept is what i used to see my spiritual practice as. i see chaos magick as being able to question and disagree as you shift through spiritual practices, and a huge part of it is learning from different cultures. for me , i perceive my spiritual practice as using faith, performance and rituals as means to unlocking my own self, accepting and working with my ego, trauma, and needs. i don't necessarily think there are those gods, archetypes, but i believe the use of their symbolism in ritualistic practice makes it possible to obtain what we want from them, so, in a certain way, they exist. i first read about this in the satanic bible (which i criticize in many ways, but learned a lot from) and it helped me understand why i didn't want to get stuck in "religions" and dogmas, because it was actually a tool for my own journey with myself and this world, and i could learn from so much more than one practice. although i believe even if we don't "believe", this practice, the spiritual practice, is extremely sacred even so.
I consider myself an eclectic witch - my focuses are Wicca, Cottage/Hedge Craft, and Hellenism. I am a scholar at heart - so I listen to and follow people of other traditions (folk magic, chaos magick, etc) because I can learn from them, even if their practices differ from mine. It was actually one of the things I used to love about going to festivals, attending workshops and practices of different traditions. There are some unifying principles and beliefs, but the differences allow you to more closely look at your own beliefs and practices and find what works best for you. I agree with you very much that the 'objective truth' is very difficult to determine, and that the 'chaos' perspective is very attractive to my scientific mind, but the focus of my beliefs comes down to a Christian poet, Max Ehrmann, "be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be."
Loved this❤ I was a teen in the 90s when it made a “resurgence “ in nyc art and occult scene with Austin Osman Spare. That catapulted me into the core literature you mentioned in the video. I think it’s a vital starting point if you wanna understand it a bit more to see if it’s even something that vibes. I have known witches and occultist who are curious but just cannot feel safe , confident or competent about their practice without tradition, guidelines or directions . ( That’s cool too I often do and my petitions are written and signed in strict Hoodoo style always cause it just works for me) I think the idea of approaching magick with a scientific approach is counterintuitive for some people. Your video on Nahualism was a great example. All I could do as Ghost was explaining mirror scrying techniques was how I could tweak it to make it work for me in my own scrying process. Change the numbers for sun and moon and do more reading up so I can see if dream sowing would work with my current path working and astral work . I approach it like that. I ask myself if these methods fit into my practice and if not do I want it to and if so how ? 9 out of 10 times it always works and when doesn’t I get excited cause it just means I should change something or just chuck it.I agree with you. It’s an approach to magick altogether and I think the only common thread within different chaos magicians is just that. It can’t and doesn’t wanna be defined fully and that’s what makes it appealing .( to me) You did a great job with this 😎
Thank you! Reading your comment, I can see how similar we are with our approach to magick. It's so nice to see! On another note, I am so glad you are contemplating how to incorporate dream sowing into your current astral work. 👏🖤
I just got to your channel after the nice interview with the witch of wonderlust and I'm so glad to be here. I've seen a few of your videos now and I love all of them. Finally a channel with "my" kind of magick & witchcraft.
I love the way you explain chaos magick! It's a complicated subject to describe yet can be a simple method of manifesting. Just started watching your channel & am enjoying it. Thank you, blessed be 💜
Hi Ivy, I found your channel recently and I'm binging your videos every chance I get! You're fantastic, your channel is fantastic and I'm so inspired, thank you 💜💜
@@IvyTheOccultist Im having some trouble with a particular working and I am not sure how to set it up for best results. Its in regard to a toxic, addiction of a person that is currently locked up. And I do not want them to ever get out or released and if they do i want them to stay away!! For Good, no reaching out, no phone calls etc.. this is for a Client of mine so i only have a name the other persons name, i do not know any other info or where this person in currently located. Thank you for any help can give me :)
I would love to interview HearthWitch! I don't think she particularly enjoys collaborations though. I have tried to reach out but haven't heard anything back. (I totally respect that as a fellow introvert.) But yes, I'd love to have her on the channel one day!
around 13 mins about paradigm shifting and confidence......... thank you so much Ivey I really needed to hear that and get my head around it today. I am getting better at believing in myself, I nearly always get the results I want and need, but that little Ego voice still doubts ...................... The content on your channel is amazing Ivy, well done, and thank you for sharing so much !
In regards to paradigm shifts, I stand very much between “never” and “always”; I believe you should find what works and “ride it till the wheels fall off”, but once that happens, stop doing it. Don’t fix what isn’t broken, but don’t use broken tools either (unless that’s the point lol).
I found your channel through your interview panel with Marshal, Nike, and Olivia. I’m so happy I did! I was looking for the “glue” that would tie my witchcraft practice and my views of spirituality together, and Chaos Magic is it. Your videos are so informative and I appreciate that they go beyond the beginner level. I bought Condensed Chaos on audiobook and love it so far! Thank you for your content!
Thank you for this! ❤️ If I had to label myself, I would call myself an eclectic witchcraft practitioner. After today's topic, I can see how my approach to my practice does have a chaos flavor to it. I approach what I do with the with the thought that my belief is what makes it real. I'm not sure if my words are truly expressing my thoughts here or not. But there are instances where simple is better and there are instances where more is more. At the core, though, it's my belief that is the tool that powers my intention. I'm still such a baby on this journey and still have so much to learn. So, again, thank you! Blessed be! ❤️
Ha! I think you're right! Kindred spirits we are. It's why I'm drawn to you. That's not meant to be weird or sketchy! It just means a lot of what you share resonates with me.
Thank you so much for the quality content! The topic is very interesting but you are also very clear and structured in your explanation. I don't like watching people talk for 15 minutes. But I love when you are doing it ❤
Interesting… so essentially you’re saying that chaos magic is to ascribe to Descartes theory of existence - it is often simplified to “I think therefore I am”, which is frequently misinterpreted, but it could be better described as “my entire existence is defined by what I think it is”
I’m trying to understand Chaos Magic in order for me to grow as a Magical Practitioner. I agree that my beliefs are completely subjective. For me, Kali Ma is a state of mind. However, when I say that I am working with Hel, she is real to me. I think this is where Chaos Magic gets cloudy for me. I have an altar for Hel. But I think you have an altar for the horned god. Do you believe that the horned god is real, or that they are a state of mind? When working with my money bowl, I believe that I must do my part to reach my goals. I do not associate a god nor a goddess with the bowl. I work my money bowl in order for me to train my mind to view my money in a different way. For example, I’m trying to train my mind to want money instead of things. This is very hard 😂 I’m skilled with eclectic folk magic. I believe that both eclectic witchcraft and chaos magic can work together. I need to explore this topic in my journal.
This is definitely where things get complicated, that's for sure! Peter Carroll is considered the "father" of chaos magick and in his writings (as well as other chaos magicians like Phil Hine) it's emphasized that one who practices chaos magick does not give in to dogmatism of any kind and that through our "belief" we can manifest things into our reality. So no, I don't see the Horned God as an objective truth - meaning, I don't see the Horned God being "real" outside of my belief in the Horned God. But just because my belief is what gives the Horned God power, it doesn't necessarily mean it's all in my head! It just means that I don't accept anything as the one and only truth... mainly because chaos magicians believe we are unable to experience any sort of objective reality. Therefore, we cannot claim that there is one. But again, just because I believe that it's my "belief" that gives something it's power, doesn't necessarily mean that is just all in my head. I think reality is a lot more complicated than that.
Thank you for your reply! I believe that through my belief in my goal in my money bowl and workings, I will be able to manifest my goals. I believe this because I’m constantly working my bowl and my candle workings, so I’m constantly reminding myself of my goals. I think through chaos magic my subjective belief in Hel, because Hel is not an objective truth. Hel is just real to me because I believe in her myself. There are no objective truths. I think I understand the subjective and objective part of chaos magic … this makes sense to me. Please tell me if this thinking is wrong. Now … The paradigm shifts … I need more help with that part 😂😂😂
@@CoralTheWitch2023 you are spot on!!! First, I have to say... Everyone is entitled to their beliefs and even if you did believe that something is an objective truth, I would hope you know that I support you fully, my friend! 😊❤️ But it definitely sounds like you are aligning with the chaos magick perspective then. As far as paradigm shifting goes... It's not necessary for every chaos magick practitioner to do this. But I will say... It's an incredible experience that I can't quite explain!
@@IvyTheOccultist Thank you for talking me through the objective/ subjective process! It makes sense to me now! 🤗❤️ I’ll see if I can read about paradigm shifting tomorrow!
This was a big reason why I figured I'd start actually recording myself talking about chaos magic as if I were teaching it, because I see a lot of people (especially neopagans and semi-new practitioners) dogmatize sigils and other chaos magic concepts, when really it's all about keeping your mind open to other perspectives in your practice. For example, people always say "cross out your vowels for the spell to work! Because Hebrew doesn't have vowels! (that second fact is false btw)", but honestly I never felt the need to do that and I don't do that, it's more important that you make the sigil and get it working, so if you have to cross out vowels fine, but it's also quicker not to and it might be more magical to convert the letters to another alphabet instead (as an example). Even if you don't consider yourself a chaos magic practitioner, it can be a useful mindset for research or approaching new things. I like that you put emphasis that chaos magic is a very psychological thing and it can be difficult to see if someone is a chaos magician based on their practice (even if they do something closely related to it, like pop culture magic).
Belief is not the same as desire. I might believe that bigfoot exists, that doesn't mean I desire bigfoot to exist. A quote I found: The direction of fit thesis says that desire and belief are propositional attitudes that share an object, but in the case of desire the world should change so that it fits the desire; in the case of belief one's beliefs should fit the world. Unquote. If I reject all forms of established rituals and systems in order to do achieve magical goals, then all I need to preform magical goals is to simply desire them. I don't need sigils, rituals, chants, or any ceremony at all if I mentally establish (chaos magic) that they aren't required to be done to work my magic! Why set hurtles for myself? That is as direct and simple as one can get for chaos magic. If I desire simplicity to preform magic, then it shall be so. Now if that desire isn't enough to make magic happen, then there must be a need to preform mundane actions/rituals, traditional or not.
[FYI, this is a joke.]🤍 Eclectic: ‘Can’t we all just get along?’ Chaote: ‘Homey don’t play dat!’ Folk: [Minding herbs, binding spirits] Ceremonial: [Releasing said spirits] ‘Unum!’ BlueRay Lightworker: ‘Can’t we all just get along?’ Taoist: ‘Rock, paper, scissors.’ Jesus: ‘Jesus.’ My 5 year old: ‘I have so many questions about the Universe.’
Really interesting video thank you. In my mind a Chaos Magician shifts paradigm on purpose….so they’ve learnt/researched that paradigm, or at least enough of it to choose to believe in it. An eclectic witch can use a spell for example from a Hoodoo origin & not actually know much at all about that paradigm.
The more I learn about chaos magick, the less I vibe with it. Reducing the gods down to just mental concepts, turning those valuable relationships into just voices in my head (of which I have enough to know they are different.) This idea about deities only being there cause you choose to believe in them, oddly feels way more dogmatic than any eclectic practitioner's view on them. Also, who the f cares about efficiency? I'm here to live my fantasy life, not work work work. I really don't get people who want everything to be fast and practical
I pictured a huge white board with circles, squares, and lines off camera - how else to keep this all straight?! Your authenticity came through strongly when you didn’t corrupt “gnosis” with a modifier regarding a topic that defies “verification”. Thanks for the expansion of the types of “magic”- makes perfect sense! Again, I’ll buy the 📕. ❤
Very good advice to this day on this discussion even in 2024! 🙏🏽 thanks for your take on this! Oh btw is it possible to do both at same time? Or is it best to chose chaos over being purely eclectic as pointed out here?
The Fastest Way of explaining the difference between Chaos Magick and Eclectic Paganism: Chaos Magick is a Magick System that Focuses on Results Through Manipulating Our Own Beliefs. Eclectic Paganism is a Belief System that incorporates as many Concepts of Divinity as Possible. The Rest is Seasoning.
@@IvyTheOccultist Your content is really quite exceptional! I'll be going through it slowly, or.. rapidly, as it is turning out 😉🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼😇🦋🌟 Congrats on it all 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 Very glad I discovered your channel 🧙🏼♀️💃🏼
It seems Chaos Magic is similar to how I think of my relationship to Druidry. They are not the path you walk, but rather how you walk it. I've apparently trended towards Chaos Magic for years and had no clue. I just thought it was all of the Sagittarian placements in my natal chart. 😂
I think I get used by others as a toxic download conduit. I know that sounds nuts. But I'm a sensitive, born near stonehenge, very nature based. I remember trying to caste spells through thought form from being a small child. It sort of comes as second nature...like I've done it before...anyway, I've noticed that people seem to sense they can download their messed up energy through me? They don't even know they're doing it and I can't believe I'm even saying this but it's how it seems to be. I think I am a chaos magician by nature. When you explained this practice it was a great revelation for me. An 'AHA, so that explains why I have an aversion to dogmatic practices!' moment. I love your videos. Sooooo enlightening and informative. Thank you. I'm also in love with your room. What is that colour on the wall?
I would consider myself a chaos witch that paradigm shifts between chaos magick, eclectic witchcraft, and other magicks ... whether this made sense or not all that matters is that I believe it 😂
@Ivy The Occultist I feel baptized by you now 🤣 . Also, I did want to thank you for making this video because I was getting peeved reading comments on Olivia's channel🤣
I understand that you said that chaos magick means that you're experiencing spirituality different (i.e. the Kali example), but that does mean that because of your intent, herbs like nightshade or wolfsbane, can be used to heal people, while herbs like lotus can be used to curse people? If magick is subjective from that perspective, does it mean you can pretty much say "ok so now night shade is going to be attributed to venus cause I want it to?" Where does this idea of magickal properties being subjective have limits (if they do)?
Everybody looks both ways before crossing the road, right? Basically we are asking ourselves if our minds can "control" of a car driving into us can even hurt us. The litmus test would be walking in front of a huge fast truck and not getting hurt. But would that even prove it was chaos magic at play? Or third party intervention?
@@EclecticCircleOfMagic but there's then kind of a contradiction. Like is magic happening because we make it happen or is it because there are objects that are inherently magical and have purpose.
I agree with what you're saying and I don't think there is a clear answer. For me, I think all of magick is symbolic and that the symbolism is all highly personal/individual. I don't think objects naturally have magical properties; I think we assign beliefs to them and that gives them power. I know that's not a fun witch-y response, but I can't help but see it that way.
THIS IS THE FiRST TIME i've heard someone say all of is are playubg make believe. Thank you f8r wxplainung thes3 aspects of Chaos magic in this way. It intrigues me and makes s3bse, though not something I can comoleteky grasp. Tge chaos portion of a Druid ADF ritual cones to mind. It'a a structursd, if anything goes? I NEVER KNEQ CHAOS MAGICIANS WERE PRACTICAL. COOL.
Hello I was wondering if you had any sources where I can get an idea on different forms of magick other than witchcraft I’ve been trying to find sources for a while now, but every source claims all magick is witchcraft and I know that’s not true. And very insightful video I’m so glad to have discovered you.
Sure! What kind of magick are you interested in? If you're looking into ceremonial magick, I'd recommend picking up Llewellyn's Complete Book of Ceremonial Magick because it has a lovely introduction into many different traditions. That book would be a great starting place for you to figure out where to go from there. 😊
I really want to provide my opinion on this, I am not fully a practitioner yet, meaning I have not done nearly as many spells or practices to call myself an experienced magician: from what i learnt recently i am 99.99% chaos magick follower. I totally honestly follow with the ideas of belief system, psyche and psychology, ego removal, no limitations, no rules, I even dont feel comfortable to call myself ANY of names even including chaos magician cause i dont like putting a name on me xD But when it comes to saying, "chaos magicians don't actually believe that entity exists" is the only moment that bugs me when i hear it. Can't you do chaos magic in a chaos magic way and still believe it exists? I have worked with Kali, I loved her energy so much and I feel it sounds belittleing (?) to say she doesn't exist out of my psyche - for one, I feel a little of worshipping energy is always beneficial for the work or i just fancy it XD I like knowing that it DOES exist even without me believing in her in any given moment, and another more rational argument would be - even if one person in the world besides me believes in the existence of that entity, it means it exists outside of my belief system, in the realm "objectively", and i know we won't exactly picture her in the same way but i think the fact that Kali as an egregor and an energy has been feed for centuries with so many peoples beliefs that she actually does exist. I may believe in her today and not tomorrow but, she's there doing her own stuff, even maybe following my moves if she wants. Another argument that Just came to me would be the fact that entities call us even when we don't yet know them - i've felt some of the entities calling me ridiculously intensely for a while, when i didn't even know their name and i only started researching because they kept coming up everywhere - i feel their presence. So i object the term "they don't actually exist" :D What would you say about that? where you draw the line between belief of existence and psychological perspective? Much Love😁💞💞
I reuse my salt for multiple workings 😊 When it finally gets to a point where my salt feels like it has gone stale, I will just throw it away. It's not great for the soil to put a bunch of salt on it so I just throw it in the bin if I can't reuse it.
Is the lack of Objective Truth only b/c we can not know from our limited perspective what The Truth could be thus it ultimately does not matter or there is truly no truths that bind the universe and reality together? So fascinated! wanting to understand more! Thank you also. Your videos are super informative, and to the point and really interesting.
Both! Neither! That is definitely the greatest debate. I go back and forth on this conversation all the time and I'm sure all chaos magicians have many different perspectives. I could see that there is a potential truth that exists... But I tend to lean towards the perspective that we will never be able to wrap our minds around what that "truth" actually is... Therefore, we cannot claim that such a truth exists. Our belief is the only thing we have definitively. But my mind changes on this all the time and I think that's just the nature of the game! ❤️
Hello Ivy I'm watching your videos today and I just wanted to let you know in this video most of what you're talking about I already know but I just love watching you talk about stuff and I have found that even when I know something you give me new ideas into what I already knew
You probably shouldn't have said "cut out all of the garbage." Even if you don't believe it has a purpose for your practice, it doesn't mean that it has no value. 🫤
I'm a baby occultist who is binge watching your videos. I appreciate your style and I don't understand why you don't have more subscribers.
To me the difference was always thus: Chaos Magick is ruled by the mind - its a very analytical almost "scientific" approach to energy work. Eclectic Witchcraft is ruled by the heart - its a very intuition based approach, the theory behind it doesn't matter as long as the vibes are right.
I could definitely see that!
You can be a chaos magician guided by the heart... Chaos magick is very open minded
For me when I read the thumbnail and the title I immediately thought of a difference. Eclectic Witchcraft is like me taking spells from Ancient Greece, charms from traditional witchcraft, chants from folk magick while Chaos Magick is like me using Ancient Greek element correspondences for a spell but then use Taoist element correspondences for another spell, then for a different spell I could use a psychological model etc. In shorter words 😂🤣 I would say that Chaos Magick is a psychological change of perspective to another. Could you do a video on the differences of Witchcraft and Magick? Because I personally think that they are the same thing. As you know I want to write a book but I don't want too much of my own opinion in it and this topic of Witchcraft and Magick being different is one of those topics that features my opinion and not fact.
Oh I actually agree with you! Witchcraft is definitely a type of magick for sure. The point that I was trying to make in the video is that it's not the ONLY type of magick... There's ceremonial magick, shamanism, eastern traditions of magick... All of which are very different from witchcraft. But it's all magick to me! 😊
Ask Artificial Intelligence "ChatGPT" what's is the difference and let him write your Book :)
Sp my understanding is chaos Magick is subject to interpretation of the individual and how they navigate and manifest within their own place in their universe. And pushing that boundary to what ever they feel calls to them to create in their craft.
This aspect of belief isnt spoken about a lot. That's something people should discuss more. The changing of beliefs is most probably work with the subconsciousnes. I like how you explained that being a chaos magician is actually knowing of the mechanism of magic, this is so far the most accurate description I have ever heard 👏👏❗
Thank you! I am so glad you agree! 🙌🖤
@@IvyTheOccultist A very interesting question is "What is belief? It's not talked about and some people say than faith and belief are two different things which I agree with. A lot of sources try to neglect belief and describe it as something weaker than faith which may be tru, but belief is still something we can use. If we want to know how to use it we must first define it. You are on to something very interesting and important and I intend to dive in it and come out with answers. I'm happy that I'm following your videos. Having fresh thought is very rare and valuable. Thank you 🙏
@@godsofwar1186 thank you so much for this. I agree that belief isn't talked about enough! I'm not sure if you're familiar with Sanhre the podcast host for "The Order of Chaos" but he invited me back on the channel for a second time. We plan to discuss this in greater detail soon. Thank you for the insightful and supportive comment! 🙏
That's very true about the paradigm shifting. I was doing that before I even knew about chaos magic, when I was just experimenting with witchcraft.
I've had all these doubts about my magic working and about spitits, so I narurally began to find other ways of thinking about magic. Psychedelics allowed me to do that more effeciently, though I wouldn't recommend them to everyone.
Currently binge watching your videos on Chaos magick and I think you've described what I have done for most of my life. It took one person to tell me I was wrong, and being caught up in mundane 9 to 5, for me to stop doing chaos. Now I find myself almost coming back home into it with a whole new perspective.
I’m so glad I chanced upon your channel.
All these while, I’ve just been doing magic my way in my most intuitive self. I’m basically on the paradigm of “I will it, I have it, I do it because I am it” so it’s very self belief and self manifest driven. I do work with deities and spirits and the way I perceive my relationship with them is just like how you described here. I don’t know what you call this method this entire time but today I found out in such an enlightening way from you. Thank you so much!
Nailed it!!! We are not capable of truly quantifying objective truth. I've felt this way for years and this chaos magic path defines what I've been going through to a T... This gives me so much clarity and validation thank you!
Excellent video, Ivy! I would recommend that people watch this video more than once.
I appreciate your content so much, as someone who is just learning about chaos magic. Thank you ❤
Thank you; that is so kind! 🙏❤️
New video from Ivy… yes please
🙏❤️❤️❤️
Chaos witchcraft maybe? There seems to be many kinds of witchcraft these days so why not? Maybe it's already a thing.
Perfect timing. I was just asking myself this question yesterday and I was wondering what your thoughts are as a chaos magic practitioner... and now I know. 😆 I am still a bit confused, but I'll get to my own definition sooner or later. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and keep the great work.
Getting your own definition is a powerful moment and you will definitely get there! And thank you. I'm glad to see interest in the topic! 😊
i have always known that i was a chaos magician, it's concept is what i used to see my spiritual practice as. i see chaos magick as being able to question and disagree as you shift through spiritual practices, and a huge part of it is learning from different cultures.
for me , i perceive my spiritual practice as using faith, performance and rituals as means to unlocking my own self, accepting and working with my ego, trauma, and needs. i don't necessarily think there are those gods, archetypes, but i believe the use of their symbolism in ritualistic practice makes it possible to obtain what we want from them, so, in a certain way, they exist. i first read about this in the satanic bible (which i criticize in many ways, but learned a lot from) and it helped me understand why i didn't want to get stuck in "religions" and dogmas, because it was actually a tool for my own journey with myself and this world, and i could learn from so much more than one practice.
although i believe even if we don't "believe", this practice, the spiritual practice, is extremely sacred even so.
I consider myself an eclectic witch - my focuses are Wicca, Cottage/Hedge Craft, and Hellenism. I am a scholar at heart - so I listen to and follow people of other traditions (folk magic, chaos magick, etc) because I can learn from them, even if their practices differ from mine. It was actually one of the things I used to love about going to festivals, attending workshops and practices of different traditions. There are some unifying principles and beliefs, but the differences allow you to more closely look at your own beliefs and practices and find what works best for you. I agree with you very much that the 'objective truth' is very difficult to determine, and that the 'chaos' perspective is very attractive to my scientific mind, but the focus of my beliefs comes down to a Christian poet, Max Ehrmann, "be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be."
Loved this❤ I was a teen in the 90s when it made a “resurgence “ in nyc art and occult scene with Austin Osman Spare. That catapulted me into the core literature you mentioned in the video. I think it’s a vital starting point if you wanna understand it a bit more to see if it’s even something that vibes. I have known witches and occultist who are curious but just cannot feel safe , confident or competent about their practice without tradition, guidelines or directions . ( That’s cool too I often do and my petitions are written and signed in strict Hoodoo style always cause it just works for me)
I think the idea of approaching magick with a scientific approach is counterintuitive for some people. Your video on Nahualism was a great example. All I could do as Ghost was explaining mirror scrying techniques was how I could tweak it to make it work for me in my own scrying process. Change the numbers for sun and moon and do more reading up so I can see if dream sowing would work with my current path working and astral work . I approach it like that. I ask myself if these methods fit into my practice and if not do I want it to and if so how ? 9 out of 10 times it always works and when doesn’t I get excited cause it just means I should change something or just chuck it.I agree with you. It’s an approach to magick altogether and I think the only common thread within different chaos magicians is just that. It can’t and doesn’t wanna be defined fully and that’s what makes it appealing .( to me)
You did a great job with this 😎
Thank you! Reading your comment, I can see how similar we are with our approach to magick. It's so nice to see! On another note, I am so glad you are contemplating how to incorporate dream sowing into your current astral work. 👏🖤
I just got to your channel after the nice interview with the witch of wonderlust and I'm so glad to be here. I've seen a few of your videos now and I love all of them. Finally a channel with "my" kind of magick & witchcraft.
Thank you so much!! That is so kind! 🙏🖤🖤
I love the way you explain chaos magick! It's a complicated subject to describe yet can be a simple method of manifesting. Just started watching your channel & am enjoying it. Thank you, blessed be 💜
Hi Ivy, I found your channel recently and I'm binging your videos every chance I get! You're fantastic, your channel is fantastic and I'm so inspired, thank you 💜💜
Thank you so much! 🙏
@@IvyTheOccultist Im having some trouble with a particular working and I am not sure how to set it up for best results. Its in regard to a toxic, addiction of a person that is currently locked up. And I do not want them to ever get out or released and if they do i want them to stay away!! For Good, no reaching out, no phone calls etc.. this is for a Client of mine so i only have a name the other persons name, i do not know any other info or where this person in currently located. Thank you for any help can give me :)
I have learned so much from you. Thank you. You ever thought about interviewing Hearthwitch? I would love to watch.
I would love to interview HearthWitch! I don't think she particularly enjoys collaborations though. I have tried to reach out but haven't heard anything back. (I totally respect that as a fellow introvert.) But yes, I'd love to have her on the channel one day!
around 13 mins about paradigm shifting and confidence......... thank you so much Ivey I really needed to hear that and get my head around it today. I am getting better at believing in myself, I nearly always get the results I want and need, but that little Ego voice still doubts ...................... The content on your channel is amazing Ivy, well done, and thank you for sharing so much !
I've never heard someone else word my own beliefs in such a concise manner. Great video!
In regards to paradigm shifts, I stand very much between “never” and “always”; I believe you should find what works and “ride it till the wheels fall off”, but once that happens, stop doing it. Don’t fix what isn’t broken, but don’t use broken tools either (unless that’s the point lol).
Yes!!! I agree with this. Perfect way to explain it!
Totally clicked for me!
I found your channel through your interview panel with Marshal, Nike, and Olivia. I’m so happy I did! I was looking for the “glue” that would tie my witchcraft practice and my views of spirituality together, and Chaos Magic is it. Your videos are so informative and I appreciate that they go beyond the beginner level. I bought Condensed Chaos on audiobook and love it so far! Thank you for your content!
Thank you sooo much! I hope the book ends up being super helpful for you! 🖤
Thank you for this! ❤️ If I had to label myself, I would call myself an eclectic witchcraft practitioner. After today's topic, I can see how my approach to my practice does have a chaos flavor to it. I approach what I do with the with the thought that my belief is what makes it real. I'm not sure if my words are truly expressing my thoughts here or not. But there are instances where simple is better and there are instances where more is more. At the core, though, it's my belief that is the tool that powers my intention. I'm still such a baby on this journey and still have so much to learn. So, again, thank you! Blessed be! ❤️
You are more of a chaos witch than you realize 😆 Love this! 🖤
Ha! I think you're right! Kindred spirits we are. It's why I'm drawn to you. That's not meant to be weird or sketchy! It just means a lot of what you share resonates with me.
@@patriciabauman7664 hahaha I did not receive that as weird or sketchy at all. That makes me so happy! Kindred spirits! 🖤🖤🖤
Thank you so much for the quality content! The topic is very interesting but you are also very clear and structured in your explanation.
I don't like watching people talk for 15 minutes. But I love when you are doing it ❤
Haha that means a lot to me, thank you! 🖤
YES! Efficiency! I need fast & simple! And the belief that it’s effective!
Interesting… so essentially you’re saying that chaos magic is to ascribe to Descartes theory of existence - it is often simplified to “I think therefore I am”, which is frequently misinterpreted, but it could be better described as “my entire existence is defined by what I think it is”
Yes, exactly! That's a great way to look at it!
I loved this conversation! I would be interested in seeing you break down chaos magic in Wanda Vision 😉✨🔮
Wow! You just blew my mind. Thank you.
I’m trying to understand Chaos Magic in order for me to grow as a Magical Practitioner. I agree that my beliefs are completely subjective. For me, Kali Ma is a state of mind. However, when I say that I am working with Hel, she is real to me. I think this is where Chaos Magic gets cloudy for me. I have an altar for Hel. But I think you have an altar for the horned god. Do you believe that the horned god is real, or that they are a state of mind? When working with my money bowl, I believe that I must do my part to reach my goals. I do not associate a god nor a goddess with the bowl. I work my money bowl in order for me to train my mind to view my money in a different way. For example, I’m trying to train my mind to want money instead of things. This is very hard 😂 I’m skilled with eclectic folk magic. I believe that both eclectic witchcraft and chaos magic can work together. I need to explore this topic in my journal.
This is definitely where things get complicated, that's for sure! Peter Carroll is considered the "father" of chaos magick and in his writings (as well as other chaos magicians like Phil Hine) it's emphasized that one who practices chaos magick does not give in to dogmatism of any kind and that through our "belief" we can manifest things into our reality. So no, I don't see the Horned God as an objective truth - meaning, I don't see the Horned God being "real" outside of my belief in the Horned God. But just because my belief is what gives the Horned God power, it doesn't necessarily mean it's all in my head! It just means that I don't accept anything as the one and only truth... mainly because chaos magicians believe we are unable to experience any sort of objective reality. Therefore, we cannot claim that there is one. But again, just because I believe that it's my "belief" that gives something it's power, doesn't necessarily mean that is just all in my head. I think reality is a lot more complicated than that.
Thank you for your reply! I believe that through my belief in my goal in my money bowl and workings, I will be able to manifest my goals. I believe this because I’m constantly working my bowl and my candle workings, so I’m constantly reminding myself of my goals. I think through chaos magic my subjective belief in Hel, because Hel is not an objective truth. Hel is just real to me because I believe in her myself. There are no objective truths. I think I understand the subjective and objective part of chaos magic … this makes sense to me. Please tell me if this thinking is wrong. Now … The paradigm shifts … I need more help with that part 😂😂😂
@@CoralTheWitch2023 you are spot on!!! First, I have to say... Everyone is entitled to their beliefs and even if you did believe that something is an objective truth, I would hope you know that I support you fully, my friend! 😊❤️ But it definitely sounds like you are aligning with the chaos magick perspective then. As far as paradigm shifting goes... It's not necessary for every chaos magick practitioner to do this. But I will say... It's an incredible experience that I can't quite explain!
@@IvyTheOccultist Thank you for talking me through the objective/ subjective process! It makes sense to me now! 🤗❤️ I’ll see if I can read about paradigm shifting tomorrow!
@@CoralTheWitch2023I believe it's somewhere in either Liber Null or Condensed Chaos. They explain it much better than I can 😂
Great video! May I ask what microphone you use? The sound is amazing! Especially when I use my earphones.
Chaos magick is not a system, it is an approach. Also, witchcraft/low magick is a branch of magick that contains many systems. Semantics
This was a big reason why I figured I'd start actually recording myself talking about chaos magic as if I were teaching it, because I see a lot of people (especially neopagans and semi-new practitioners) dogmatize sigils and other chaos magic concepts, when really it's all about keeping your mind open to other perspectives in your practice. For example, people always say "cross out your vowels for the spell to work! Because Hebrew doesn't have vowels! (that second fact is false btw)", but honestly I never felt the need to do that and I don't do that, it's more important that you make the sigil and get it working, so if you have to cross out vowels fine, but it's also quicker not to and it might be more magical to convert the letters to another alphabet instead (as an example). Even if you don't consider yourself a chaos magic practitioner, it can be a useful mindset for research or approaching new things.
I like that you put emphasis that chaos magic is a very psychological thing and it can be difficult to see if someone is a chaos magician based on their practice (even if they do something closely related to it, like pop culture magic).
Belief is not the same as desire. I might believe that bigfoot exists, that doesn't mean I desire bigfoot to exist. A quote I found: The direction of fit thesis says that desire and belief are propositional attitudes that share an object, but in the case of desire the world should change so that it fits the desire; in the case of belief one's beliefs should fit the world. Unquote. If I reject all forms of established rituals and systems in order to do achieve magical goals, then all I need to preform magical goals is to simply desire them. I don't need sigils, rituals, chants, or any ceremony at all if I mentally establish (chaos magic) that they aren't required to be done to work my magic! Why set hurtles for myself? That is as direct and simple as one can get for chaos magic. If I desire simplicity to preform magic, then it shall be so. Now if that desire isn't enough to make magic happen, then there must be a need to preform mundane actions/rituals, traditional or not.
I luv you Ivy!
[FYI, this is a joke.]🤍
Eclectic: ‘Can’t we all just get along?’
Chaote: ‘Homey don’t play dat!’
Folk: [Minding herbs, binding spirits]
Ceremonial: [Releasing said spirits] ‘Unum!’
BlueRay Lightworker: ‘Can’t we all just get along?’
Taoist: ‘Rock, paper, scissors.’
Jesus: ‘Jesus.’
My 5 year old: ‘I have so many questions about the Universe.’
Really interesting video thank you.
In my mind a Chaos Magician shifts paradigm on purpose….so they’ve learnt/researched that paradigm, or at least enough of it to choose to believe in it.
An eclectic witch can use a spell for example from a Hoodoo origin & not actually know much at all about that paradigm.
Your channel is exactly what I was looking for , wild lol.
Very informative!! TY 🙂
Oh good, I'm glad! 😊🖤
The more I learn about chaos magick, the less I vibe with it. Reducing the gods down to just mental concepts, turning those valuable relationships into just voices in my head (of which I have enough to know they are different.) This idea about deities only being there cause you choose to believe in them, oddly feels way more dogmatic than any eclectic practitioner's view on them.
Also, who the f cares about efficiency? I'm here to live my fantasy life, not work work work. I really don't get people who want everything to be fast and practical
Thank you! This was very helpful!
I pictured a huge white board with circles, squares, and lines off camera - how else to keep this all straight?! Your authenticity came through strongly when you didn’t corrupt “gnosis” with a modifier regarding a topic that defies “verification”. Thanks for the expansion of the types of “magic”- makes perfect sense! Again, I’ll buy the 📕. ❤
Very good advice to this day on this discussion even in 2024! 🙏🏽 thanks for your take on this! Oh btw is it possible to do both at same time? Or is it best to chose chaos over being purely eclectic as pointed out here?
The Fastest Way of explaining the difference between Chaos Magick and Eclectic Paganism:
Chaos Magick is a Magick System that Focuses on Results Through Manipulating Our Own Beliefs.
Eclectic Paganism is a Belief System that incorporates as many Concepts of Divinity as Possible.
The Rest is Seasoning.
I agree with you soo much ❤❤❤❤❤ Not very used to that 🎉🎉 Specially the objectivity/subjectivity topic!
So glad you agree! ❤️❤️
@@IvyTheOccultist Your content is really quite exceptional! I'll be going through it slowly, or.. rapidly, as it is turning out 😉🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼😇🦋🌟
Congrats on it all 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Very glad I discovered your channel 🧙🏼♀️💃🏼
@@xi22 thank you so much, that is so kind! Lots of love to you! ❤️
To you too lovely ♥️♥️♥️♥️💃🏼🤗
It seems Chaos Magic is similar to how I think of my relationship to Druidry. They are not the path you walk, but rather how you walk it. I've apparently trended towards Chaos Magic for years and had no clue. I just thought it was all of the Sagittarian placements in my natal chart. 😂
I'm sure your Sagittarian placements definitely help! (I'm a Sag moon so I feel you)
I think I get used by others as a toxic download conduit. I know that sounds nuts. But I'm a sensitive, born near stonehenge, very nature based. I remember trying to caste spells through thought form from being a small child. It sort of comes as second nature...like I've done it before...anyway, I've noticed that people seem to sense they can download their messed up energy through me? They don't even know they're doing it and I can't believe I'm even saying this but it's how it seems to be. I think I am a chaos magician by nature. When you explained this practice it was a great revelation for me. An 'AHA, so that explains why I have an aversion to dogmatic practices!' moment. I love your videos. Sooooo enlightening and informative. Thank you. I'm also in love with your room. What is that colour on the wall?
I would consider myself a chaos witch that paradigm shifts between chaos magick, eclectic witchcraft, and other magicks ... whether this made sense or not all that matters is that I believe it 😂
You sound like a pure blooded chaos witch to me! (I know that's not really a thing) 😂 Totally made sense and I love it!
@Ivy The Occultist I feel baptized by you now 🤣 . Also, I did want to thank you for making this video because I was getting peeved reading comments on Olivia's channel🤣
@@JazmineTheSage hahahahaha OMG I had to stop reading those comments for my own sanity. 😂
I understand that you said that chaos magick means that you're experiencing spirituality different (i.e. the Kali example), but that does mean that because of your intent, herbs like nightshade or wolfsbane, can be used to heal people, while herbs like lotus can be used to curse people? If magick is subjective from that perspective, does it mean you can pretty much say "ok so now night shade is going to be attributed to venus cause I want it to?" Where does this idea of magickal properties being subjective have limits (if they do)?
Everybody looks both ways before crossing the road, right? Basically we are asking ourselves if our minds can "control" of a car driving into us can even hurt us. The litmus test would be walking in front of a huge fast truck and not getting hurt. But would that even prove it was chaos magic at play? Or third party intervention?
@@EclecticCircleOfMagic but there's then kind of a contradiction. Like is magic happening because we make it happen or is it because there are objects that are inherently magical and have purpose.
I agree with what you're saying and I don't think there is a clear answer. For me, I think all of magick is symbolic and that the symbolism is all highly personal/individual. I don't think objects naturally have magical properties; I think we assign beliefs to them and that gives them power.
I know that's not a fun witch-y response, but I can't help but see it that way.
THIS IS THE FiRST TIME i've heard someone say all of is are playubg make believe. Thank you f8r wxplainung thes3 aspects of Chaos magic in this way. It intrigues me and makes s3bse, though not something I can comoleteky grasp. Tge chaos portion of a Druid ADF ritual cones to mind. It'a a structursd, if anything goes? I NEVER KNEQ CHAOS MAGICIANS WERE PRACTICAL. COOL.
4:05
Thank you I fully now accept myself as a shamanic psychospiritual witch who practices chaos magick who is also a heyokaSeeR
Okay this is making more sense I’m definitely a chaotic witch
How does paradigm jumping affect belief to the point of no doubt in a working? What's the link? How does that work?
Hello I was wondering if you had any sources where I can get an idea on different forms of magick other than witchcraft I’ve been trying to find sources for a while now, but every source claims all magick is witchcraft and I know that’s not true. And very insightful video I’m so glad to have discovered you.
Sure! What kind of magick are you interested in? If you're looking into ceremonial magick, I'd recommend picking up Llewellyn's Complete Book of Ceremonial Magick because it has a lovely introduction into many different traditions. That book would be a great starting place for you to figure out where to go from there. 😊
Does chaos magick involve working with pop culture characters.
Honest question because I can't seem to find the answer. Is there a difference between chaos witch and chaos magician? And if so, what is it?
Not really. It's kinda up to preference. Especially in chaos magick. But in general you could say witch = low magick, magician = high magick
I really want to provide my opinion on this, I am not fully a practitioner yet, meaning I have not done nearly as many spells or practices to call myself an experienced magician: from what i learnt recently i am 99.99% chaos magick follower. I totally honestly follow with the ideas of belief system, psyche and psychology, ego removal, no limitations, no rules, I even dont feel comfortable to call myself ANY of names even including chaos magician cause i dont like putting a name on me xD But when it comes to saying, "chaos magicians don't actually believe that entity exists" is the only moment that bugs me when i hear it. Can't you do chaos magic in a chaos magic way and still believe it exists?
I have worked with Kali, I loved her energy so much and I feel it sounds belittleing (?) to say she doesn't exist out of my psyche - for one, I feel a little of worshipping energy is always beneficial for the work or i just fancy it XD I like knowing that it DOES exist even without me believing in her in any given moment, and another more rational argument would be - even if one person in the world besides me believes in the existence of that entity, it means it exists outside of my belief system, in the realm "objectively", and i know we won't exactly picture her in the same way but i think the fact that Kali as an egregor and an energy has been feed for centuries with so many peoples beliefs that she actually does exist. I may believe in her today and not tomorrow but, she's there doing her own stuff, even maybe following my moves if she wants. Another argument that Just came to me would be the fact that entities call us even when we don't yet know them - i've felt some of the entities calling me ridiculously intensely for a while, when i didn't even know their name and i only started researching because they kept coming up everywhere - i feel their presence. So i object the term "they don't actually exist" :D What would you say about that? where you draw the line between belief of existence and psychological perspective?
Much Love😁💞💞
a new video, the day ends well😊
You are so sweet! ❤️❤️❤️
So could you consider yourself a chaos witch instead of chaos magician if you lean more towards witchcraft over other paradigms?
Question? What do I do with the salt I've used in a ritual?
I reuse my salt for multiple workings 😊 When it finally gets to a point where my salt feels like it has gone stale, I will just throw it away. It's not great for the soil to put a bunch of salt on it so I just throw it in the bin if I can't reuse it.
As always I think fall somewhere right in the middle of these two. Just to be as extra (dimensional) as possible.
Hahaha spoken like the truest chaos magician!
Is the lack of Objective Truth only b/c we can not know from our limited perspective what The Truth could be thus it ultimately does not matter or there is truly no truths that bind the universe and reality together? So fascinated! wanting to understand more! Thank you also. Your videos are super informative, and to the point and really interesting.
Both! Neither! That is definitely the greatest debate. I go back and forth on this conversation all the time and I'm sure all chaos magicians have many different perspectives. I could see that there is a potential truth that exists... But I tend to lean towards the perspective that we will never be able to wrap our minds around what that "truth" actually is... Therefore, we cannot claim that such a truth exists. Our belief is the only thing we have definitively. But my mind changes on this all the time and I think that's just the nature of the game! ❤️
@@IvyTheOccultist Thank you for replying. I really appreciate how open you are about your journey and thoughts on all the things! :D
@@clevervixen oh thank you! And no problem at all 😊🙏
How bout wen u smoke or eat edibles...can that also be high magic? Lol just kidding.
Don't you just hate when someone farts you out of samadhi during yoga class.
haha you made it!!
Hahaha finally! Now I can actually direct people to a thorough explanation 😆
Hello Ivy I'm watching your videos today and I just wanted to let you know in this video most of what you're talking about I already know but I just love watching you talk about stuff and I have found that even when I know something you give me new ideas into what I already knew
I’m an eclectic witch that uses chaos magic 🪄
You probably shouldn't have said "cut out all of the garbage." Even if you don't believe it has a purpose for your practice, it doesn't mean that it has no value. 🫤